View Full Version : A simple thank you
This site has caused me to obsess over pack weight, to the point that I will pack, repack, remove, replace, or redistribute gear for hours on end several times a week. I finally got to weigh my pack last night and it was 21 pounds with food! I have a few things left to replace that will reduce my weight even more. The advice I've received here has been priceless in every facet and quite entertaining. I just want to thank everyone, so this is my way.
Wise Old Owl
05-16-2012, 18:06
cool................:D
I'm sure some folks here would like to see that 21 lb pack list of yours.........
jakedatc
05-16-2012, 19:42
Feels good right? So much nicer without a big burden holding you back.
Blissful
05-16-2012, 19:51
Don't get so obsessed by it and all the advice. You will figure out what you need that works for you. My average weight is 30 and I'm fine with it.
rocketsocks
05-16-2012, 19:55
I would suggest that this condition you have was inherent before you came to White Blaze:D,as I have it too,and yes it is a perfect tribute to the new way of thinking that I have learned as well.:)very nice.
jakedatc
05-17-2012, 00:27
i think it's funny that every thread on here about going lighter is automatically injected with someone carrying more and being "fine". People on here seem to be afraid of change and afraid to accept that there is a better way than what they are doing. Lighter makes hiking more comfortable and when you are hiking like 60% of the time, sleeping 30% and eating 10% you have to look at what is actually necessary.
Even I am like that a little bit. it costs me 1lb to carry my filter instead of Aquamira. in the Whites or on the LT i may change my thinking and switch. i just have to make that jump.
with the technology out there going lighter will almost never be unsafe or uncomfortable. no reason to carry a pack more than 2lb, tent more than 3lb, sleeping bag more than 2-3lb(cept in dead of winter even then you could get close)
(i don't know why this won't start at the beginning.. just rewind to 0:00) If it can work for someone on a 6 month trip, off trail in alaska.. it can sure work for someone on a 3 day weekend trip anywhere down here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGQTcQhL08A
Big Dawg
05-17-2012, 00:31
I'm sure some folks here would like to see that 21 lb pack list of yours.........
yes... inquiring minds want to know!!
Truth be known I find all of these convos about packweight to be way too obsessive and way too conformist for my blood and for a sport that once took pride in being a place where nonconformists could feel at home .
On my NOBO 2013 hike I'm going carry what I think I need and what makes me happy and if the High Priests and Priestesses of the Go Light Go Right Religion see my Kelty Tioga, figure out that loaded it exceeds the holy number of 19.77 lbs and label me as an heretic that must be stoned then the only mercy that I will ask for is naturally grown weed that doesn't give a sore throat or leaves me nonfunctional
I'll post a gear list when I get home. I'm working in the ER tonight and we're a bit busy.
I'll post a gear list when I get home. I'm working in the ER tonight and we're a bit busy.
And when you do, if you would, factor in a cost associated with ALL of it - ballpark figure is fine.
Congrats on getting down to 21 lbs.!
Jake, what you said is true, yet you left out one amazingly difficult factor for many people here: cost.
Many can't or won't (me included there) get the greatest sleeping bag for $600 when one twice as heavy works for $100.
Truth be known I find all of these convos about packweight to be way too obsessive and way too conformist for my blood and for a sport that once took pride in being a place where nonconformists could feel at home .
On my NOBO 2013 hike I'm going carry what I think I need and what makes me happy and if the High Priests and Priestesses of the Go Light Go Right Religion see my Kelty Tioga, figure out that loaded it exceeds the holy number of 19.77 lbs and label me as an heretic that must be stoned then the only mercy that I will ask for is naturally grown weed that doesn't give a sore throat or leaves me nonfunctional
Ahahaha, Cheers!
Ok, I'm doing this from memory, so weights, brands and such are gonna be iffy:
IN THE PACK
High Sierra Summit 45 - 4.5 pounds or so and around $150 (I'm replacing this next with the GoLite Quest 50)
Gander Mtn Backpacking tent - ~3 pounds and $80 (discontinued)
Eureka 30 degree sleeping bag ~2.5 pounds ~$150-175 if I remember correctly
Thermarest prolite regular ~1-1.5 pounds and I don't remotely remember price
First aid kit ~ .5 pounds and $20 (want to increase this to a medic pack so I can use my medical training should I come across an ailing hiker on the trail)
Sea to Summit sil-nylon drybags x2 ~ .2 pounds $20 each (one for clothes, one for food)
platypus 3L hydration bladder ~.2 pounds $30-35
Camelbak 1L bottle ~ It was issued to me by the archaeology company I worked for, no idea on cost ~.4 pounds
1 roll Tennessee orange electrical tape ~.2 pounds $.75 (I like to use this to wrap my toes to avoid hotspots, done it for years
1 roll TP
2012 AT Thru-hiker's companion
3 pair Wigwam Rebel Fusion no show socks ~really light $12/pr
Patagonia capilene 2 lightweight thermals ~$45 per top/bottom
Gander Mtn polyester half zip fleece ~$40 ~1 pound
North Face rain jacket~ 1-1.5 pounds ~$100
1 pair Marine Corps issue "silky" PT shorts $18
GSI soloist cookware ~1 pound $42
SuperKat stove ~weightless $.60
20oz Mtn Dew Bottle filled with Heet for fuel ~1 pound $4
Ziploc 1qt freezerbags x~10 for all kinds of things
Bic Lighter $1
various food products including knorr sides, clif bars, general mills cereal bars, GORP, Jack Links beef jerky, Spam, Tuna, and Chicken
Energizer headlamp ~.5 pounds $15
Crocs (camp shoes) .5 pounds $30
ON MY PERSON
Salomon XA Pro 3D Ultra 2 trail runners $130
Wigwam REbel Fusion no show socks $12
Columbia Silver Ridge II convertible pants $55
1 pair Marine Corps issue "Silky" PT shorts $18
Mountain Hardware trail shirt $30
1 well worn (not to mention proudly) University of Tennessee hat FREE
iPhone 4S
Wallet
1 pack cigs
1 bic lighter
Forgive me if my weights or prices are off, I just got off a 12 hour shift on a night when everyone in town decided to have a car accident. I've used virtually everything I have in the field on multiple day trips and they've worked like a charm. After trail days I will be adding REI trekking poles (they're in the mail) and changing to the GoLite pack which should drop my weight. I did not weigh each piece individually, rather my method was to weigh myself on a standard bathroom scale sans pack, then put my pack on and do the same and take the difference. I weighed in at 160, and with pack weighed 181, making 21 pounds. Add 4 pounds for the 2 liters of water I intend to carry at a time (I carry the empty camelbak bottle for gatorade at night, electrolytes are important) and my carry weight is 25 pounds, which I'm pretty happy with. This gear list is for mild-warm weather hiking and is what I'm comfortable with (I did 3 combat tours, I can tolerate pretty bad conditions).
Besides the pack, I've been considering changing to a 40 degree bag, and dropping the tent for a hammock. I'm reserved on the hammock because I broke my back in 5 places 8 years ago and I'm not sure my back can tolerate that position for that long. There's definitely still room for improvement, and I'm sure I left some things out that some find essential, but I'm happy with what I have and have done several shakedowns and test drives getting everything just right.
And yes, I could lose the cigs and it'd help, I'm working on it, it's just a hard thing to break. (I'm still in pretty good shape, I used to be a competiton runner)
Oh.... really important thing I forgot to mention:
I use Aqua Mira, I don't think it changes the taste of the water and it's much smaller and lighter than a pump. Not to mention cheaper. I'm ballin' on a budget.
Capt Nat
05-17-2012, 08:31
Mr. Veetack, You are a gentleman and I hope that I meet you out there sometime. As far as the Hiking vs Camping thing, I find that I can only walk 8 to 10 hours a day depending on terrain. That leaves 14 to 16 hours of camping. I want to enjoy both.
Blue Jay
05-17-2012, 10:34
I love being in a shelter when the temp falls waaay below UL sleeping bag ratings (often they only carry liners) and then you get to watch them putting on their frozen clothing. Weight balance is rarely discussed online, possibly I suspect because cyberhikers rarely toke their noses out unless conditions match their UL gear.
ATMountainTime
05-17-2012, 10:56
This site has caused me to obsess over pack weight, to the point that I will pack, repack, remove, replace, or redistribute gear for hours on end several times a week. I finally got to weigh my pack last night and it was 21 pounds with food! I have a few things left to replace that will reduce my weight even more. The advice I've received here has been priceless in every facet and quite entertaining. I just want to thank everyone, so this is my way.
Funny I was thinking the same thing the other day, this place has not on saved me 10-15 lbs, but also $100's if not $1,000's in wrong gear choices.
Funny I was thinking the same thing the other day, this place has not on saved me 10-15 lbs, but also $100's if not $1,000's in wrong gear choices.
I didn't even think about money I've saved. But if you look at the prices of my stuff, I really don't think I've gone overboard in the wallet either. This site and the unbelievable luxury of an outfitter that honestly is more concerned about getting me the right equipment, not the most expensive, has really helped me in that aspect to the point that I haven't even felt the effects of equipment purchases come payday.
Moose2001
05-17-2012, 13:41
i think it's funny that every thread on here about going lighter is automatically injected with someone carrying more and being "fine". People on here seem to be afraid of change and afraid to accept that there is a better way than what they are doing. Lighter makes hiking more comfortable and when you are hiking like 60% of the time, sleeping 30% and eating 10% you have to look at what is actually necessary.
I think it's funny that every thread on here about going lighter is injected by some UL convert who wants to tell me what works for me and how stupid I am for carrying what I want to. Why do you care what I carry? What is it that makes you think you have the right to tell me I'm stupid because I carry 2, 5, 7, or even 10 more pounds than you do? You have no idea what my comfort level is, what I need, what works for me or what makes me happy. Advice on how to cut down your pack weight is great and appropriate. Telling others how to hike is not appropriate.
Odd Man Out
05-17-2012, 14:10
I love being in a shelter when the temp falls waaay below UL sleeping bag ratings (often they only carry liners) and then you get to watch them putting on their frozen clothing. Weight balance is rarely discussed online, possibly I suspect because cyberhikers rarely toke their noses out unless conditions match their UL gear.
I recommend Skurka's recent gear guide book (I wrote a review recently on the media forum). He describes "stupid light" as people who cut weight just for the sake of cutting weight (and as a result are under-prepared for condition). Instead he makes all his gear choices based on the objectives of the hike, as well as his own needs and abilities. Being UL may be the result, but NEVER the objective. His kit is impressively light, but appropriate for the conditions. Your kit should be different because you have different goals, needs, and abilities, but equally appropriate.
Veetach, great job listing all that out.
And I suppose it's getting really off the "thank you" message of the thread here...
Rough calculation of your gear total is over $1100. And you are still replacing.
In planning for a thru, my goal is to stay under $1500 for gear TOTAL - and people tell me I'm nuts (don't have to spend that much).
I too have much of my gear already, and need to replace some as well.
Pack, food and water your percentage at 25 lbs. is 15.6% which I think is really good. (Others may not?)
IN SHAPE, my weight is 210, and if I could reach your percentage would be 33 lbs. (and many tell me that's TOO heavy).
For new folks here: Understand that quite often people here DON'T talk apples to apples or compare things with simple rules.
Example: all the many sites that define Light, Ultralight, Super Ultralight, etc. with NO consideration for a person's weight (or abilities).
Heck, I MAY be happy to get my pack, food and water under 40 lbs. Time will tell.
Veetach, great job listing all that out.
And I suppose it's getting really off the "thank you" message of the thread here...
Rough calculation of your gear total is over $1100. And you are still replacing.
In planning for a thru, my goal is to stay under $1500 for gear TOTAL - and people tell me I'm nuts (don't have to spend that much).
I too have much of my gear already, and need to replace some as well.
Pack, food and water your percentage at 25 lbs. is 15.6% which I think is really good. (Others may not?)
IN SHAPE, my weight is 210, and if I could reach your percentage would be 33 lbs. (and many tell me that's TOO heavy).
For new folks here: Understand that quite often people here DON'T talk apples to apples or compare things with simple rules.
Example: all the many sites that define Light, Ultralight, Super Ultralight, etc. with NO consideration for a person's weight (or abilities).
Heck, I MAY be happy to get my pack, food and water under 40 lbs. Time will tell.
This is a fantastic analysis of what I put on here. As for cost of gear, I haven't really noticed because a lot of my stuff has been acquired over a long period of time. With the exception of this last paycheck where I dropped $400 (Had to buy new shoes), I don't usually spend more than $100 or so every other week. That may be a bit much for some people, but it fits in my budget quite well.
I never really thought about percentage, I just know that the lighter my pack, the more comfortable I am, as I assume it would be for everyone else. I'm by no means suggesting what other people should carry, just what works for me. I don't consider my self ultralight, superlight, or any other weight label; I consider myself a hiker and I hike my own hike, just as we all do.
Yeah I hear ya and I wish you and your hike well!
garlic08
05-17-2012, 15:37
Veetack, it sounds you're doing well with equipment and it sounds like you're happy with it, which is most important.
Here's a resource for going cheaply: http://hikinghq.net/300_challenge.html. It's Sgt Rock's $300/15 pound challenge. No need to spend lots of money on this hobby.
I outfitted on a budget, too. For what it's worth, my entire AT kit, a serious three season kit which included a Marmot Helium 15F bag, cost me just over $800 and weighed under ten pounds. That's about what I spent on trail food for the AT hike, to put it in perspective. (That does not include worn out shoes, or a summer bag that cost me a net of $50 after I sold it.)
I saw an incredibly wide range of packing styles on the AT, more so than any other long trail I've been on, and a wide range of hiking styles to go with them. Some were happy with their equipment, some were not. Many packs were way smaller at the end of the hike than at the beginning. Most hikers were happier at the end than at the beginning, too. That's just what I noticed.
MyName1sMud
05-17-2012, 15:49
you're welcome!
garlic08
05-17-2012, 16:10
I love being in a shelter when the temp falls waaay below UL sleeping bag ratings (often they only carry liners) and then you get to watch them putting on their frozen clothing. Weight balance is rarely discussed online, possibly I suspect because cyberhikers rarely toke their noses out unless conditions match their UL gear.
Conversely, it was curious to hike past Newfound Gap in a blizzard carrying a 10 pound pack and wearing running shoes, warm and dry and ready for a 15F night in blowing snow, while every single other hiker in the "pack", dozens of them, bailed out to Gatlinburg soaking wet and miserable. Comfort obviously had nothing to do with the weight of gear people were carrying. They just didn't know how to keep dry in those conditions. And it wasn't very enjoyable watching them.
The next day, I caught up with the next "pack", those who were caught in the blizzard north of Newfound Gap. I helped out a group with a frostbite case. That person had a huge pack and heavy boots. He carried lots of stuff and didn't know how to use it. That wasn't very fun either. He spent some recovery time in a hospital, I later heard.
Not every UL hiker is unprepared for conditions, as noted in Skurka's case and many others. We all tend to criticize those who are different from us, though, so while you see unprepared UL hikers, I see inexperienced hikers carrying too much and hurting themselves. In the middle are plenty of people perfectly happy and experienced with their gear choices who are not interested in changing.
Live_for_hiking
05-17-2012, 16:31
I don't pack and repack obsessively. I do have my stuff in a room spread out on the floor. What can I say, it's backpacking season and I like to see all the stuff I will be using. Besides, I clean up when I hit the trail (pack) .....
Before I pack it all up for the winter, I'll have my 2013 starting kit together in one closet. My warm and New England swaps ready in a second closet. The gear swaps will be in boxes ready to go.
Nitrojoe
05-17-2012, 17:03
Hi Veetack: I added up the weight of your pack items that were on your list with the given weights and I get 18.7 lbs. You did not include the weight of the following, AT hikers handbook, 3 pair of socks, 1 pair of PT shorts, stove, eating spork and cup, 10 zipplock bags, big lighter, food weight for how many days? The weight of food per day for a male your age is between 1.5 to 2.0 lbs per day, top and bottom thermal wear. I weighed my crocks and they are badly worn and weigh 13.2 0z and yours weighed 0.8 oz. Please double check your pack items. Remember " If you look after the ounces the pounds look after themselves".
Hi Veetack: I added up the weight of your pack items that were on your list with the given weights and I get 18.7 lbs. You did not include the weight of the following, AT hikers handbook, 3 pair of socks, 1 pair of PT shorts, stove, eating spork and cup, 10 zipplock bags, big lighter, food weight for how many days? The weight of food per day for a male your age is between 1.5 to 2.0 lbs per day, top and bottom thermal wear. I weighed my crocks and they are badly worn and weigh 13.2 0z and yours weighed 0.8 oz. Please double check your pack items. Remember " If you look after the ounces the pounds look after themselves".
Like I said, I had just gotten off work and was very tired. Additionally, I did not individually weigh each item as I only have a bathroom scale and many things would not register. The individual weights are at best a guess, but the total weight was 21 pounds. I have what equates to 4 days of food in my pack, but I tend to eat less than others, even on the trail. I don't know why, I've always been that way, I think my body metabolizes food differently than everyone I know, because I'm certainly not skin and bones, but a knorr side and a tuna pack is two dinners for me. I bag my leftovers in a ziploc and reheat them the next day.
Spork and cup were included in the weight of my cookware.
Honestly, I'm not really concerned with the weight of individual items, more the total weight of my pack. I'm happy with what I'm carrying and I'm pretty comfortable.
I know I'm going to get railed about my diet, but it works for me and it's healthy. I've seen doctors about it because in Boot Camp at Parris Island, my drill instructors were bothered by the fact that I couldn't finish a full meal most days. For some reason, my body needs significantly less caloric intake and I don't know why. I do know that many people would be famished on what I eat. Every two weeks or so, I will gain almost a primitive "feast" mentality and consume 3-4k calories in a day. My father used to joke that I have the dietary habits of a snake, but it's kind of true. I've pushed my body to the limit doing this for years. It just works.
That being said, I'm no competition for the half gallon challenge. :)
jakedatc
05-18-2012, 17:12
I love being in a shelter when the temp falls waaay below UL sleeping bag ratings (often they only carry liners) and then you get to watch them putting on their frozen clothing. Weight balance is rarely discussed online, possibly I suspect because cyberhikers rarely toke their noses out unless conditions match their UL gear.
Since Skurka seems to be too far out of the AT realm recently.. how about Lint? guy will be a double triple crown with 8-10lb baseweight. He did the AT the 2nd time ON A WHIM in 98 days.
yes, some people take it to crazy low weight that anyone could do for a weekend in S.Cal with 60F at night and no rain but plenty of others go out and are prepared for much longer and are prepared for whatever they get.
Blue Jay
05-20-2012, 16:42
Not every UL hiker is unprepared for conditions, as noted in Skurka's case and many others. We all tend to criticize those who are different from us, though, so while you see unprepared UL hikers, I see inexperienced hikers carrying too much and hurting themselves. In the middle are plenty of people perfectly happy and experienced with their gear choices who are not interested in changing.
This is completely true, often I see UL hikers who are more prepared than I am . My point was that this web site is often preaching and giving advice on lowering pack weight that is irresponsible.
Miami Joe
05-21-2012, 01:02
Unless you're in the military, your pack weight should never exceed 15 percent of your body weight. Follow this rule and be happy.
Unless you're in the military, your pack weight should never exceed 15 percent of your body weight. Follow this rule and be happy.
No way
Since that rule will barely work for people over 200 lbs (15% =30 lbs ) there is simply no way that it can work for somebody 120 lbs or less ( 15% =18 lbs)
A better and more realistic rule would be that maximum total packweight should not exceed 25% of bodyweight and that gets further refined to maximum nonconsumable packweight should never exceed 10% of bodyweight for those over 160 lbs and 15% for those under 160 lbs
Miami Joe
05-21-2012, 01:42
Oldbear, I was being sarcastic...But you make some good points.
If you are wearing it on your back, what difference would it make if it were consumable, pink or a comic collection? Weight is weight.
Joe has listed an opinion and is probably close to correct even if I won't make that weight. And yeah, it would apply to a 120 lb. person equally as it would a 200 lb. person (with the concept that both are at equal fit levels).
"If you are wearing it on your back, what difference would it make if it were consumable, pink or a comic collection? Weight is weight."
The difference is that the smaller you are the higher the percentage of your bodyweight that your essential non-consumable gear will represent:
Which then becomes less consumable weight that you can carry
Which in turn becomes the need to resupply more frequently
Which then becomes a longer and more expensive trip
I didn't know this was about the length and expense of a trip??
I read it as a weight issue with what you are carrying as in 'pack weight'.
I didn't know this was about the length and expense of a trip??
I read it as a weight issue with what you are carrying as in 'pack weight'.
It's 2:39 AM for both of us
It's late
We're getting cranky so I'm going to politely depart from this convo by saying that in order for any numbers to have any real meaning they can't stand alone :they have to be put into some kind of context
Nah, I'm not cranky.
This is very off topic, and you were adding variables.
I would guess the 3 greatest determining factors regarding what someone could and/or should carry on a thru-hike might be physical ability, body weight, and sex. Without knowledge of that, the easiest formula of how much to carry I've heard yet was a simple percentage of body weight.
Those who define Ultralight, Superlight, Bantamweight, etc. terms simply go by carried weight with seemingly no other factors considered. (That I think is whacked.) :)
Consumables has variances largely based on all of the above and is merely confusing in your stated context.
jakedatc
05-21-2012, 07:33
hike might be physical ability, body weight, and sex. Without knowledge of that, the easiest formula of how much to carry I've heard yet was a simple percentage of body weight.
Those who define Ultralight, Superlight, Bantamweight, etc. terms simply go by carried weight with seemingly no other factors considered. (That I think is whacked.) :)
Consumables has variances largely based on all of the above and is merely confusing in your stated context.
people who "define" things go by Baseweight. = items carried that are non consumable.. ie stuff that will be in there the whole trip. food and fuel are variable depending on trip length. it makes no sense to compare carried weight for a weekend against a 7 day trip.
gear list from a weekend in NC by Jamie Shortt ( if you are a MYOG guy you should check out his page Lytw8.com) 3.5lb base and 8lb total pack... with shelter, sleeping system good to mid 30s, stove. (yes his cuben tarp is expensive but the rest is not bad)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=64268
WIAPilot
05-21-2012, 08:01
people who "define" things go by Baseweight. = items carried that are non consumable.. ie stuff that will be in there the whole trip. food and fuel are variable depending on trip length. it makes no sense to compare carried weight for a weekend against a 7 day trip.
gear list from a weekend in NC by Jamie Shortt ( if you are a MYOG guy you should check out his page Lytw8.com) 3.5lb base and 8lb total pack... with shelter, sleeping system good to mid 30s, stove. (yes his cuben tarp is expensive but the rest is not bad)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=64268
Excellent article and list. I need to hire this guy! No, LOL, I will never join the ranks of the UL. I enjoy my comfort and conveniences too much. That said, I am thinking and rethinking every single item I buy and/or put in my pack. I am buying and searching out the lightest items out there. Hopefully, in this manner I can get my pack to only weigh 30 lbs instead of 50 lbs...
As the time draws near, I think everyone can expect to see the following ad: PORTERS WANTED FOR HIRE.
people who "define" things go by Baseweight. = items carried that are non consumable.. ie stuff that will be in there the whole trip. food and fuel are variable depending on trip length. it makes no sense to compare carried weight for a weekend against a 7 day trip.
That makes sense to me Jake.
I was thinking in terms of a thru-hike of the A.T.
I do understand this rationale.
surfnturk
07-12-2012, 08:16
i think it's funny that every thread on here about going lighter is automatically injected with someone carrying more and being "fine". People on here seem to be afraid of change and afraid to accept that there is a better way than what they are doing. Lighter makes hiking more comfortable and when you are hiking like 60% of the time, sleeping 30% and eating 10% you have to look at what is actually necessary.
Even I am like that a little bit. it costs me 1lb to carry my filter instead of Aquamira. in the Whites or on the LT i may change my thinking and switch. i just have to make that jump.
with the technology out there going lighter will almost never be unsafe or uncomfortable. no reason to carry a pack more than 2lb, tent more than 3lb, sleeping bag more than 2-3lb(cept in dead of winter even then you could get close)
(i don't know why this won't start at the beginning.. just rewind to 0:00) If it can work for someone on a 6 month trip, off trail in alaska.. it can sure work for someone on a 3 day weekend trip anywhere down here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGQTcQhL08A
Maybe some people cant afford to go out and buy 2 lb packs, etc. I personnaly could care less if I have a heavier pack. What makes you think that is "a better way".
I think some people just arent tough enough to handle a little weight on the trail. I look at it as great excersise. I think my way is better.