View Full Version : Rant
alanthealan
04-08-2005, 19:44
I am really pissed off. I sometimes vast trailplace in hopes that I may pick up something useful. That doesn’t ever seem to happen. Today however I notice that on the home page there is a link to a blog. The link is a US flag upside down. I emailed the nut and he replied it is a signal that the country is in distress! Wingfoot you have no idea what distress is!!! I don't not like Bush in fact I am leaving the services unhappy with the way things are. That doesn’t give you the right to fly my flag upside down. I will die, kill or write rants on the internet but I would not disrespect those who have given me the opportunity to fight for my flag.
"ME & U"
04-08-2005, 19:55
Right on brotha man!!! I have no idea what your talking about but sounds like the kind of crap that pisses me off too!!! Nothing worse than some jerk-off expressing his opinion!
SGT Rock
04-08-2005, 20:48
Thank goodness. I thought you were going to rant about me posting in the JetBoil thread.
If it pisses you off, don't go there.
I looked after you made this post and I also find it very disrespectfull. But then you have to consider the source.
I guess you need to look up flag protocol and than work from there to decide if you have reason to rant??????
What I don't like is the fact that suedo patriots fly two flags on civilian cars with out reading flag protocol, or maybe they put a flag on thier bumper < wrong place or maybe they wear a flag shirt... check out flag protocol it was written by congress many many years ago, when congress men actually represented the people instead of corupt corporations.
I am really pissed off. I sometimes vast trailplace in hopes that I may pick up something useful. That doesn’t ever seem to happen. Today however I notice that on the home page there is a link to a blog. The link is a US flag upside down. I emailed the nut and he replied it is a signal that the country is in distress! Wingfoot you have no idea what distress is!!! I don't not like Bush in fact I am leaving the services unhappy with the way things are. That doesn’t give you the right to fly my flag upside down. I will die, kill or write rants on the internet but I would not disrespect those who have given me the opportunity to fight for my flag.
Even though I am a peace activist and I strongly oppose the current US wars of resource theft and aggresion, I have never desecrated or disrespected the US flag in any way. The roots of my unwillingness to do so has exactly to do with the 'respect' thing you're talking about. I have never had to lay my life on the line for the flag, but I personally don't feel privileged to dishonor those who have - an implication unavoidable in flag misuse or desecration.
I applaud you for making what reads here like a tough moral decision about staying in the military. In the words of Theodore Roosevelt: “To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Even though I am a peace activist and I strongly oppose the current US wars of resource theft and aggresion, I have never desecrated or disrespected the US flag in any way. Now that is interesting. I'm very far from a peace activist. I strongly support all actions designed to protect our conuntry from all enemies, foreign and domestic (and actually think we don't go nearly far enough in war), and yet I have no issues with disrespecting or burning a flag. It is a symbol and only a symbol. I do not see how me or you or anyone burning a flag hurts my country. Plotting its overthrow is a different story, or seeking to undermine it (lots of interpretation here, but like porno, I know it when I see it).
I just checked out your bio it seems to me you just get a hardon picking on the wingnut and his web site, just don't go there and you don't have anything to rant about......jezzzzzzzzz
I agree with OWL, if you don't like something ignore it or speak your mind which we've done here. I think it's great that we can have opposing views and the privilege to voice our differences freely in a civil manner. No one is forcing anyone to drink the Kool Aid if they don't want to.:-? Let Freedom Ring!
Mountain Dew
04-09-2005, 02:02
wingfruitcake is the most unliked person associated with the A.T. and very very few agree with him on any issue. Saying that.... If you know what he is about then why visit his website ? Stop going to his site. Turn him in for having all the political speak on his 501c website, but stop feeding him with hits to his site. He contributes about 1/4 of all posts made there as it is now. His membership list is inflatted and if we'd leave him alone maybe he'd get the point and go away.
Nightwalker
04-09-2005, 04:43
Thank goodness. I thought you were going to rant about me posting in the JetBoil thread.
If it pisses you off, don't go there.
For this, and most of societies ills, I give you my favorite and most useful piece of advice: Go take a hike!
Nightwalker '05
GAME in progress
digger51
04-09-2005, 12:54
I also served in the military, for over 23 years, with honor. When I took my oath it was to protect and defend the constitution, not just parts of it I liked and agreed with. If someone chooses to desecrate or defile the flag, which is only a symbol, they have that right under the first ammendment. I chose to visit Whiteblaze over Wingnut for the simple reason that free speech is not denied here. If you dont like what you see over there just say no and dont go. There is more than enough trail info and comraderie here for anyone. As for whether you choose to leave the service because you disagree with the president and his use of the military, only you can make that decision. All I can say about that is that I served under Carter, the weakest president in memory and under Clinton,, the most morally corrupt president in history, and still continued to serve. Not because of who the commander in chief was but because I saw military service as a higher calling. Good luck in all your choices in life.
Jack Tarlin
04-09-2005, 13:00
Digger--
Good post and thank you for your service.
If clinton was so immoral I guess you really need to read this list....
Republican examples of SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE, DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Ronald Reagan - divorced the mother of two of his children to marry
Nancy Reagan who bore him a daughter 7 months after the marriage.
Bob Dole - divorced the mother of his child, who had nursed him through
the long recovery from his war wounds.
Newt Gingrich - divorced his wife who was dying of cancer.
Dick Armey - House Majority Leader - divorced.
Senator Phil Gramm of Texas - divorced.
Governor John Engler of Michigan - divorced.
Governor Pete Wilson of California - divorced.
George Will - divorced.
Senator Lauch Faircloth - divorced.
Rush Limbaugh - and his current wife, Marta, have six marriages and four
divorces between them.
Senator Bob Barr of Georgia - not yet 50 years old, has been married
three times. He had the audacity to author and push the "Defense of
Marriage Act."
The current joke making the rounds on Capitol Hill is "Bob Barr - WHICH
marriage are you defending??
Senator Alfonse D'Amato of New York - divorced.
Senator John Warner of Virginia - once married to Liz Taylor.
Governor George Allen of Virginia - divorced.
Representative Helen Chenoweth of Idaho - divorced.
Senator John McCain of Arizona - divorced.
Representative John Kasich of Ohio - divorced.
Representative Susan Molinari of New York (Republican National
Convention Keynote Speaker) -- divorced.
...and, of course in Colorado is Governor Owens who was recently divorced.
The bottom line --
"Don't let gays destroy marriage -
- that's the job of Republicans!"
Now back to the flag issue we wre talking first admendment weren't we....
Happypappy
04-09-2005, 19:10
As an honorably discharged veteran ( remember Nam? ) it pains me no end to see someone show disrespect to our nation's colors. However, again as a vet, I know that it is their right under the first amendment to do so, however distasteful it may be. Pay them no heed, if it is a website, stay away. The less attention these people recieve, the sooner they will get the hint and go away.
Ted aka happypappy
RagingHampster
04-09-2005, 19:14
Hahahaha Owl.
I'm a registered independent due to the fact that I've found you have to take each guy as they come. Hated Reagan, Liked Bush Sr (foreign policy), Liked Clinton (domestic issues), Hate Bush the lesser.
Oh well. :rolleyes:
dje97001
04-09-2005, 20:37
Hey RagingHampster... just curious, if you are 23 yrs. old... how much "hate" could a -1 to 7 year old have toward a political figure? ;)
not all Republicans are divorced. here's a link to a story about a prominent Republican strategist who's only been married once, and is apparently very happy with his choice of partner. His name is Arthur J. Finkelstein, the chief strategist and advisor to Jesse Helms. (spoiler: he married a guy).
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/09/politics/09finkelstein.html?ex=1270699200&en=ca95af744bb6439b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland
Pencil Pusher
04-09-2005, 22:08
Don't forget about wingnut's "Good Riddance to Ronald Reagan" thread upon his death...
Lets get back to the flag issue i really don't care whos divorced you missed the point, the upside down flag on someone elses web site which if ya really don't want ta see it you shouldn't go there cause web sites are like TV, switch the channel.
the original rant was about wingnuts page.... does he have the right to fly the flag upside down.....it is his web site yes.... he is an american with the right of freedom of speech yes... he dated jane fonda... whoops wrong guy.
he is not divorced.. but does he have the right to express his opinions.....
I say yes, I actually had to check out the page after not looking at it for years and I say if he wants to fly that flag upside down it is his opinion let him express himself, after all i don't try to limit FOX NEWS or free speech TV. so be it.
the person who started this thread is always attacking wingnut, why cause he got his feelings hurt??? Oh my I got kicked off wingnuts page so I'm gonna attack him on line.
This is why congress can't get anything done either
this is why non-christians don't trust christians
this is why the internet is just organized anarchy.... OHHH HUMMMMM
MedicineMan
04-09-2005, 22:46
I found it to be a sad occasion, only because someone who could have done so much has in a harsh reality polarized so many against. The force and tide of the A.T. community have turned against him. The only reason for his continued web existence is rotting away, and with the advent of the Articles Section of WB his physical presence in the guise of the book he peddles will soon wither away as well. Why in short time would anyone purchase a book that is in comparison feeble when they could download for free a concise tabula from WB with CURRENT information that has as its source hundreds if not thousand of WB eyes?
RagingHampster
04-09-2005, 23:10
Hey RagingHampster... just curious, if you are 23 yrs. old... how much "hate" could a -1 to 7 year old have toward a political figure?
Well I started reading the paper in 1st grade and we had discussions about the election between Bush/Dukakis. Getting political during Bush Sr's reign, I also saw the after effects of Reagan's ways. I voted for Gore when I was 18, and Kerry last year. I just included all president's in my lifetime in my last post.
I too, am turned off by people who desecrate the flag. One thing that does tick me off is the whole "Don't bash the troops" people throw at those who don't support the war. Only a numb-nut would hope for his fellow country-men to die in battle. The republican campaign of guilt for non-supporters (of war) and the yellow-ribbon deal is simply a measure to drum up support for neo-con agendas (the midnight fantasies of Paul Wolfowitz). The only thing that ticks me off more than ignorant protestors are ignorant political zealots who don't think, only act. This goes for republicans and democrats. It doesn't take a genius to look at our current state, both foreign and domestic, and say... "Oh crap". We need a president with the foreign policies of Bush Sr., and domestic policies of Al Gore.
Just my humble opinion though.
digger51
04-10-2005, 00:54
Thanks for keeping me informed about the divorces within the republican leadership. Im glad to know that no democrats are divorced. I will agree that anyone who was married to Liz Taylor will never see the shiny side of heaven. But it seems to me that I recall Clinton was not divorced when he was having nonsex with Monica, Paula, and several others. OH well, Owl, if we ever meet I hope you have a cup of kool aid I might borrow. I start hiking again early next week so if you are on or near the trail wave as I go by.
Mountain Dew
04-10-2005, 03:21
Digger.... hahahahaaaaaa I think i love you man ! hahaaaaaa oh and thanks for the time served in the Armed Forces !
Digger its all good.... GOP , Donkeys; clintons BJ , he should have told Ken Star that it was none of his F------ Business and walked away. cause I know ken was sittin at home abusing himself while writing that report.
but the thread was about the flag
the first admendment
But we all can rant, it is simply amazing how many folks I see carry the wingnut book or photo copies thereof, just yesterday on roan mt. I was walking into carvers gap, a hiker was sittin there on a rock trying to get his copies in order.
Books and persoal writing shall outlive the the internet; the power of text does not fail to the loss of the power grid nor is it subject to geek tricks.
Governments fall in time, yet Stone Henge still stands, human beings are here but a short time, may the force be with you, beware the dark side.....yeahhh haaaaa.................
dje97001
04-10-2005, 10:14
Books and persoal writing shall outlive the the internet; the power of text does not fail to the loss of the power grid nor is it subject to geek tricks.
I thoughts the "geeks shall inherit the earth" ?
Thank goodness. I thought you were going to rant about me posting in the JetBoil thread.
If it pisses you off, don't go there.
hey rock leave my jetboil out of this:cool: neo
I also served in the military, for over 23 years, with honor. When I took my oath it was to protect and defend the constitution, not just parts of it I liked and agreed with. If someone chooses to desecrate or defile the flag, which is only a symbol, they have that right under the first ammendment. I chose to visit Whiteblaze over Wingnut for the simple reason that free speech is not denied here. If you dont like what you see over there just say no and dont go. There is more than enough trail info and comraderie here for anyone. As for whether you choose to leave the service because you disagree with the president and his use of the military, only you can make that decision. All I can say about that is that I served under Carter, the weakest president in memory and under Clinton,, the most morally corrupt president in history, and still continued to serve. Not because of who the commander in chief was but because I saw military service as a higher calling. Good luck in all your choices in life.
i like what you have to say digger.:cool: neo
does this mean i have the right to rant about how i love my jetboil:cool: neo
Jack Tarlin
04-10-2005, 11:59
Digger:
I'm sure I'm not speaking only for myself when I say that should be posting here a lot more often!
Jack Tarlin
04-10-2005, 12:00
Meant to say "YOU" should be posting more often, Digger!
The flag is a symbol, and like most symbols the meaning varies with the observer.
The other day I was leaving a meeting with a friend with strong political views. He glanced at the back of my car and exclaimed, "I didn't know you were a Bush supporter!"
His evidence: I have a magnetic American flag next to my license plate. I told him that it's alright for us liberals to also be patriots. In fact, I'm a liberal vehemently opposed to Bush and his policies because I'm a patriot.
Weary
Just Jeff
04-10-2005, 16:53
The link is a US flag upside down. I emailed the nut and he replied it is a signal that the country is in distress!
It's a long-standing tradition that flying a flag upside down shows distress. It started with ships at sea, IIRC. I've seen a few private homes with an upside down US flag flown above a POW/MIA flag...a patriotic (or not) gesture in support of our nation's troops. So the flag being upside down, in and of itself, is not necessarily disrespecting our country and its ideals...though some fly it that way just as an insult. I guess it depends on which issues you feel strongly enough about to call our country in distress.
That doesn’t give you the right to fly my flag upside down.
No...the Constitution does that. Freedom of speech includes speech you don't like. Like others above have said...I will be disgusted if I see you burning a flag, but I'll fight to the death defending your right to do so.
I will die, kill or write rants on the internet but I would not disrespect those who have given me the opportunity to fight for my flag.Well said. IMO, by denying others the right to free speech, you ARE disrespecting those who have given you that opportunity.
Jeff
Jack Tarlin
04-10-2005, 17:01
Just Jeff:
I also believe in the Constitution, but to be perfectly frank, if I was going to fight to the death over something, well, defending some ungrateful, self-righteous, whining, flag burning punk would be about the LAST thing I'd be doing. Personally, I'd fight someone a lot worthier to fight to the death over.
But you go right ahead if you want.
Or to put it another way: If someone wants to burn, mock, or dishonor an American flag, I respect their right to do so. I also respect the sentiments of the folks who, upon witnessing someone doing this, would be tempted to knock the offender silly.
And I'd probably be right there with them.
Just Jeff
04-10-2005, 17:12
Just Jeff:
I also believe in the Constitution, but to be perfectly frank, if I was going to fight to the death over something, well, defending some ungrateful, self-righteous, whining, flag burning punk would be about the LAST thing I'd be doing. Personally, I'd fight someone a lot worthier to fight to the death over.
Semantics, I guess...but I didn't say I'd defend them. I said I'd defend their right to do it. Every member of the military swears an oath (or affirms, these days) "...to support and defend the Constitution...", not to support and defend selectively applying it to people who agree with your views.
Eleven years ago that's the oath I took (still serving)...and I don't care who anyone is or what they say, the GOVERNMENT doesn't have the power to take that right away from them (the original post was about rights). That doesn't mean other members of society have to put up with it.
Or to put it another way: If someone wants to burn, mock, or dishonor an American flag, I respect their right to do so. I also respect the sentiments of the folks who, upon witnessing someone doing this, would be tempted to knock the offender silly.
And I'd probably be right there with them.
Right on.
Just Jeff
04-10-2005, 17:19
How come we can't edit our posts any more?
One addition...it's our dedication to rights and ideals that makes our country unique, not blind dedication to "my country (and its symbols)"...to the detriment of those ideals. I think that's where flag desecration comes in.
Just my thoughts...I'm gonna go make a new hammock now.
digger51
04-10-2005, 18:08
Oh how I miss the good old days when i was in a uniform and not allowed to talk politics. Digger packs the puter away tonight and goes south tomorrow to walk a while. Hope to see some of you out there, a good discussion around the campfire is always fun. And I do cary wingnuts book, i like to know where water is and his is the best for that. But after reading the terms of agreement for his site I will not go there. Free speech and all that.
digger51
04-10-2005, 22:27
Jeff, I dont know if you got the reply to your mail but I did not direct my last comments to anything you said. It was just a general observation that i have started discussing things that I havent in a good many years. You didnt step over any line that I saw. We all have opinions and its always good to hear others. The only thing I ask is that those opinions be based on knowledge and experience, not just a kool aid kid reaction. All too often we base our ideas on emotion as opposed to logic. Logic and reason are the way I prefer to go. BUt thanks for your mail, and again, nothing was directed at your comments.
For thos ranting about upside down flag, I will repeat do you know flag protocol
US CODE Title 4 that is the answer to your questions
alanthealan
04-11-2005, 06:04
I don't know where to look up US code just what I learned in the Navy.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
All of you who say don't go there you're right I won't. There was this mental block for a while because I was thinking I was going to an AT site to learn about the AT not WF political views under the guise of hiking. His site, his mind, his right, my choice not to go there. 14 days and it won't be a problem I'll be learning about the trail the best way, hiking on it. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Jack Tarlin
04-11-2005, 15:42
You now understand
nothing matches the truth of the hike
what others say and do effect not the views you encompass out there...
Nightwalker
04-11-2005, 18:07
You now understand
nothing matches the truth of the hike
what others say and do effect not the views you encompass out there...
Hey Bubba. I hear that you're giving in to temptation and doing it again this year. Don't fly past me without kicking the tent and saying howdy.
Sometimes I hike pretty late at night and sleep late, so if you go by a SD Lightyear CD with someone snoring in it past 10 A.M., give it a kick and give me a chance to come out! :D
YerbaJon
04-12-2005, 08:52
<!--StartFragment -->"Freedom of speech means that you shall not do something to people either for the views they have, or the views they express, or the words they speak or write."--Hugo L. Black, U.S. Supreme Court Justice 1963
"The right to free speech does not imply the right to be taken seriously. That depends on what is said."--Hubert Humphrey
Many moons ago, I was stationed at a very small RAF base in England. There were only a handful of U.S.A.F. personnel. Custom had it that someone leaving the late shift -- we ran a transmitter base around the clock-- would put up the American Flag on the flagpole near the main entrance -- it was about 3/4 of mile from the worksite. One morning we were working as ususal when the main doors burst open. Security Police fanned out and searched the barracks area, secured the main transmitter room and the power station. Personnel had to line up, show identification and confirm who we were.... After a thorough search of the entire base, the SPs finally told us what the deal us.... Bill XXXXX (name deleted to protect the guilty) had stumbled home half asleep and had put the flag up up-side-down.....A passing USAF offiere on his way to the main base had seen it and called in the troops......
... Liked Clinton (domestic issues) ...
If nothing else, he erased the Reagan - Republican deficit. Damn. Those years were fun. (http://www.slick.com/wildpics/bimbos.jpg) ;)
alanthealan
04-12-2005, 20:10
You now understand
nothing matches the truth of the hike
what others say and do effect not the views you encompass out there...
Wouldn't this post be a good way to let this rant DIE.