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fantomhockey
05-21-2012, 00:33
Any major suggestions for a lightweight way to beat the bugs? My girlfriend and I are beginning our hike in June and are already carrying bug head nets for the black flies in Maine, but I'm a mosquito magnet. Probably enough of one that as long as she's standing near me, she wont have to worry about it. I generally take some crazy 40% deet stuff on shorter hikes, but that usually comes in a larger aerosol can. I've tried the wipes, and the little deals you wear on your pocket, but nothing but that super power deet spray seems to work. Any other ideas?

BTW check out our blog at appalachiansouthbound.blogspot.com or our website at sites.google.com/site/appalachiansouthbound/

Hike starts June 21st!

Mountain Mike
05-21-2012, 01:38
Garlic, I have know hikers to buy it in pill extract form I prefer it as a spice. After a few weeks on the trail vs hiker funk smell won't matter. Or see links about pemathain treatment for clothes or clothes already with it.

RedBeerd
05-21-2012, 06:33
Permethrin on clothes and ultrathon on skin. Works great!

russb
05-21-2012, 08:11
Permethrin on clothes and ultrathon on skin. Works great!


This!^^

In fact with the permethrin treated clothes you may not even need the ultrathon except in really bad situations.

LilRedTX
05-21-2012, 11:03
Does the garlic really work? I've used the really strong DEET before and that stuff scares me, I mean it can melt plastic, it can't be good for you. I've been wondering what alternatives there might be to highly toxic chemicals. If anyone has had success with alternatives, I 'd love to know!

Rocket Jones
05-21-2012, 11:08
Does the garlic really work? I've used the really strong DEET before and that stuff scares me, I mean it can melt plastic, it can't be good for you. I've been wondering what alternatives there might be to highly toxic chemicals. If anyone has had success with alternatives, I 'd love to know!

There's a reason that DEET has been the insect repellent of choice for decades. It works better than the alternatives, and it won't harm you as long as you use it correctly.

LilRedTX
05-21-2012, 11:37
I realize that it's popular because it works, but it doesn't mean it's good for you. As in another thread here, someone trying to eat healthier and the debate over sugars. Just because high-fructose corn syrup is acceptable to many does not mean it's good for you. And if there are alternatives that work fairly well, personally I'd rather try those than poison myself and the environment with toxic chemicals. Just my personal preference - if I absolutely have to use deet then I will, but I just would prefer not if I can find an acceptable more natural alternative.

jeffmeh
05-21-2012, 11:58
Try 20% Picaridin if you don't want to use DEET. That is the only alternative clinically proven to be effective, as far as I know.

Wil
05-21-2012, 12:34
Try 20% Picaridin if you don't want to use DEET. That is the only alternative clinically proven to be effective, as far as I know.Citronella oil works for me, but has to be re-applied frequently, like every 30-45 minutes. If I'm in for many hours of exposure it's Icaridin (Picaridin) or DEET, but for an otherwise insect-tolerable day but going through a swampy area or something, the Citronella is fine.

garlic08
05-21-2012, 12:47
I've been hiking in bug seasons for years without DEET, including June and July in New England on the AT a few years ago, in black fly season. I wear a long sleeve shirt and long trousers, usually treated with Permethrin in the worst of the season, and a head net when stopped. I've never had a tick and I think a few mosquito bites are worth the trade-off of not putting DEET on my skin. They usually get my ankles, wrists and hands the worst, and that's not so bad. The black fly bites were much worse, but manageable.

Odd Man Out
05-21-2012, 12:52
Try 20% Picaridin if you don't want to use DEET. That is the only alternative clinically proven to be effective, as far as I know.

Yes, Picaridin is the only synthetic repellent shown to be comparable to DEET. None of the herbal/natural repellents are as effective in controlled studies. Picaridin is less irritating for many people and doesn't damage plastics like DEET. If you are opposed to all synthetics, Picaridin may not be for you. But if you are interested in a less irritating (scary?) alternative to DEET, give Picaridin a try.

rabbitTat
05-22-2012, 09:30
When I was in the Army we used Avon Skin So Soft. I dont know whats in it the bugs dont like but it works,unless they changed the formula since then. This thread was pretty good timing for me as I had this conversation yesterday and had a girl who sells Avon order me some.

chip2012
05-22-2012, 11:35
May sound crazy but I used to hike with a guy in yellowstone who swore up and down that chewing the heads off if matches would add sulfer to your blood thus keeping bugs away. I never tried it because I figured it couldn't be healthy but he never seemed to have bugs on or near him.
Could a Dr. enlighten me?

dale1627
05-22-2012, 12:53
We also used skin so soft in the Marines while at Paris Island for the sand fleas. I don't think it repelled them so much as it did drown them. Mind you, we weren't allowed to use it until towards the end of training. They didn't want us getting too comfortable.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Odd Man Out
05-22-2012, 13:24
I've seen controlled tests of Skin So Soft along with other ointments and herbal treatments. The bottom line is that if they work, none of the work for very long (compared to DEET and Picaridin).

lemon b
05-22-2012, 13:32
Garlic or Large amounts of B-12 starting about 6 weeks before hitting the trail helps me a little with the mosquito end. Blacks Flys are always going to be a PIA during the day. Headnet has been basic gear for years. Bugs are just a fact of life while hiking.

Miner
05-22-2012, 13:52
By wearing permithrin treated clothing (don't forget to treat your hat), long pants, long sleeve shirt (you can unzip the convertable pants and roll the sleeves up if the bugs aren't bad and its hot), I only resorted to using DEET for 2 days on my PCT thru-hike when I felt like I was hiking in a grey cloud of them. A head net is nice to have during breaks.

LilRedTX
05-22-2012, 14:01
Thanks for all of the input. Bugs don't typically bother me too much, although I wonder if that will change now that I've quit smoking (just over 1 month now in prep for AT :bananaand so I can spend all the money I'm saving on gear!). Also, I know that being the only (or one of limited) targets out there, that is apt to change as well. I am resigned to using deet or other chemicals if necessary, but I also don't mind a little bit of a hassle such as long sleeves, pants and head net if that helps. My grandfather used to say a clove of garlic a day woul keep the bugs away, and he did eat a whole clove everyday, though I can't remember if it worked or not, he and his family were what was once considered "mountain people" and used all kinds of home remedies and natural solutions. I think I've always been too concerned about the smell of my sweat too much living within society to eat that much garlic, but I'd be prepared to give it a try on the trail!

Connie
05-22-2012, 17:14
When I was in the Army we used Avon Skin So Soft.
My Skin So Soft container is labeled anti-mosquito.

Mosquitos don't like me anyway. I have heard it is because my blood chemistry is alkaline pH. I was told that if you wear a copper bracelet, for example, and your skin doesn't turn green then your blood chemistry is alkaline pH. My skin doesn't turn green. If green color, then your blood chemistry is acid pH.

I have had a solar-powered keychain dragonfly sound emitter that works well. Dragonflys eat mosquitos. Mosquitos would do a 180-turn if they got within 12-feet of me. Now I have a mosquito repeller app for my iPod Touch. It works. People like to stand near me.

In flea and tick country, I have worn flea and tick collars for pets over my pants legs at my ankles. Woof or meow.

I am not kidding. Honest.

In a nasty biting bot fly area, I wear elastic gaiters because those critters bite right thru my socks.

The fact I wear loose fit tights with elastic at the ankles, long-sleeve shirts, and a hat with a no-see-um bug net is enough if I also wear gloves. There is nowhere for biting insects to bite.


edit: There are no flavor garlic pills. Are they no odor?

scree
05-22-2012, 19:03
If all else fails and you can find it (and if you're not allergic to it), mugwort (artemisia vulgaris) is great for keeping bugs away. You can sleep on it or stuff some in your pockets / clothes for a little protection if you don't have bug spray.

Tinker
05-22-2012, 19:14
Here's a thought (just came to me a few days ago). If you can sew, make a pattern from the zip off leg section of your pants (most hikers use them), and sew up a mosquito netting replacement for the fabric lower leg section of your pants. Finish it off with a drawcord at the bottom, and pull your socks up over them, just as you would with fabric pants. Much cooler than solid nylon (I suggest nylon bug netting over polyester for durability), without the inconvenience of having to pull down both bug mesh pants and shorts to relieve yourself.

Wise Old Owl
05-22-2012, 19:15
Permethrin on clothes and ultrathon on skin. Works great!

Nailed it.


Does the garlic really work? I've used the really strong DEET before and that stuff scares me, I mean it can melt plastic, it can't be good for you. I've been wondering what alternatives there might be to highly toxic chemicals. If anyone has had success with alternatives, I 'd love to know!

What never tried Nair? Please....:D

LilRedTX
05-23-2012, 12:30
Nair? Hell no!


Well ok, once when I was young. But that stuff's pretty scary too and never again.

shelb
05-23-2012, 21:31
Nair? Hell no!


.....stuff's pretty scary too and never again.

Wow... Haven't thought about that in years. How did it disolve hair?

DrRichardCranium
05-26-2012, 13:31
I tried the garlic thing. I don't think it works very well. And it definitely has no effect on gnats.

Velvet Gooch
05-26-2012, 14:06
"For decades rumor has held that Skin-So-Soft Bath Oil is an effective counter to mosquitoes, yet a 1993 Consumer Reports analysis found it ineffective for that purpose. Because so many people were buying the product for its purported mosquito combating properties, in 1994 Avon added a non-DEET repellent and a sunscreen to the popular bath oil and began marketing the new concoction as Avon Skin-So-Soft Bug Guard Repellent."

http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/skeeters.asp

marty1983
05-26-2012, 14:40
Didn't "Grandma" Gatewood use sassafras to ward off flies and mosquitos. I believe I read somewhere that to compensate for meager equipment she would break off sassafras and stick it in her hat or visor. The leaves would drop down over her ears and face but she could still see. Sometimes the simplest ways are the best ways.

Snowleopard
05-26-2012, 18:00
Didn't "Grandma" Gatewood use sassafras to ward off flies and mosquitos. I believe I read somewhere that to compensate for meager equipment she would break off sassafras and stick it in her hat or visor. The leaves would drop down over her ears and face but she could still see. Sometimes the simplest ways are the best ways.
Black flies seem to not like an enclosed space, so those leaves probably do help. I use a caped hat like a foreign legionaire's hat with permethrin and they usually don't bite me (plus permethrin treated long pants and long sleeve shirt).

DEET and Permethrin are relatively safe. I avoid DEET because I worry that it'll trigger my asthma, but I do carry it for when the bugs are bad. Like garlic08, I usually manage with just covering up with permethrin treated clothes. BUT, it's hard to imagine how bad the black flies and mosquitos can get in New England on a bad day; fortunately that's not usually the case.

mudhead
05-26-2012, 19:04
http://bangordailynews.com/2012/05/25/outdoors/fed-up-mainers-say-shoo-fly-dont-bother-me/

Can't vouch for it. Heads up if you have allergies. Contains eucalyptus. Other essential oils.

Fun read, if you deal with bugs.

Snowleopard
05-26-2012, 19:31
A pilot study conducted by researchers at The University of North Carolina Gillings School of Global Public Health reported March 29 that the incidence of tick attachments was reduced by 93 percent among workers wearing Insect Shield Repellent Apparel. (http://bangordailynews.com/2011/03/30/outdoors/insect-shield-shown-to-work-repelling-ticks/?ref=relatedBox)
The report was published online March 11 in the journal Vector-Borne and Zoonotic Diseases.Tick-borne diseases are a significant concern for the millions of people who work or play outdoors in tick-infested areas. If not treated early, these diseases can lead to severe illness or death.Over the past two decades, the incidence of Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain spotted fever has increased. The UNC study sought to determine the effectiveness of Insect Shield-treated clothing for tick bite prevention among outdoor workers from the North Carolina Division of Water Quality (NCDWQ).Sixteen employees from the Wetlands and Permitting Unit of the (NCDWQ) were selected for the pilot study because of the high number of work-related tick bites in previous years. Nine employees chose to wear Insect Shield clothing. Seven wore untreated clothes and continued their previous efforts to repel ticks including the use of spray repellents and other measures.
The study, conducted from March through September, showed that the Insect Shield group experienced 99 percent fewer tick attachments during work hours and 93 percent fewer tick attachments overall. (http://bangordailynews.com/2011/03/30/outdoors/insect-shield-shown-to-work-repelling-ticks/?ref=relatedBox)
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/03/30/outdoors/insect-shield-shown-to-work-repelling-ticks/?ref=relatedBox
Insect Shield is one of the fabrics that incorporates permethrin; its permethrin lasts for 70 washings. This clothing is expensive but for thru-hikers it's easier than retreating clothes every couple of weeks with spray on or wash in permethrin.

ChinMusic
05-26-2012, 19:56
Hike fast and don't stop.

Since I cannot do that it is permethrin and Ultrathon.

melaniebk
10-13-2012, 16:42
My Skin So Soft container is labeled anti-mosquito.

Mosquitos don't like me anyway. I have heard it is because my blood chemistry is alkaline pH. I was told that if you wear a copper bracelet, for example, and your skin doesn't turn green then your blood chemistry is alkaline pH. My skin doesn't turn green. If green color, then your blood chemistry is acid pH.

I have had a solar-powered keychain dragonfly sound emitter that works well. Dragonflys eat mosquitos. Mosquitos would do a 180-turn if they got within 12-feet of me. Now I have a mosquito repeller app for my iPod Touch. It works. People like to stand near me.

In flea and tick country, I have worn flea and tick collars for pets over my pants legs at my ankles. Woof or meow.

I am not kidding. Honest.

In a nasty biting bot fly area, I wear elastic gaiters because those critters bite right thru my socks.

The fact I wear loose fit tights with elastic at the ankles, long-sleeve shirts, and a hat with a no-see-um bug net is enough if I also wear gloves. There is nowhere for biting insects to bite.


edit: There are no flavor garlic pills. Are they no odor?
Woof, meow! I've often wondered if pet flea/tick collars would work, but you're the first person gutsy enough to admit you tried it. I really like the idea of strapping them over the pants at the ankles. It would keep them from possibly irritating furless skin (although after a couple of weeks on the trail, maybe not so furless).

Wise Old Owl
10-13-2012, 20:04
When I was in the Army we used Avon Skin So Soft. I dont know whats in it the bugs dont like but it works,unless they changed the formula since then. This thread was pretty good timing for me as I had this conversation yesterday and had a girl who sells Avon order me some.

Useless on the trail above PA. Good for around the home...

Feral Bill
10-13-2012, 23:34
A more obvious solution: Hike fall through spring. Problem solved. Maybe not for everyone, though.

TEXMAN
10-15-2012, 21:00
I know that chemicals should be avoided but sometimes you just have to give in .. I use the OFF battery operated clip on cartridge device ....it has a fan that i turn on every time i stop hiking and that swarm of bugs that usually hangs around my sweaty head leaves me alone

When the blackflys are out I use good old fashioned fly paper and wrap it around my hat ...they buzz around my head until they get stuck ...
Old Man River