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Saprogenic
05-25-2012, 19:27
I've seen 'Backcountry Permits Required' pop up here and there. What exactly are these permits? Do you mean to tell me that I need to visit a ranger, give him money for a small piece of paper, just to walk through the woods? Or are the camping permits worded differently?

Shutterbug
05-25-2012, 19:44
I've seen 'Backcountry Permits Required' pop up here and there. What exactly are these permits? Do you mean to tell me that I need to visit a ranger, give him money for a small piece of paper, just to walk through the woods? Or are the camping permits worded differently?

Most National Parks require a permit to camp in the park. The fees are fairly low and are designed to cover the cost of maintaining the backcountry camps and the scheduleing system. The system allows backpackers to know in advance that a camp site will be available. The fees vary, but for example at the Grand Canyon the fee is $10 for each permit plus $5 per night for each person covered by the permit.

Veetack
05-25-2012, 20:03
They're required in GSMNP, but as of now, they're free and shelters require an advanced reservation if you're not a thru hiker.

Rocket Jones
05-25-2012, 20:10
In Shenandoah, the permits are free, but there's a fee to enter the park if you drive in. If you're hiking in from outside the boundries, there's no charge and where the AT enters and leaves there are kiosks so you can self-register.

In the National Forest nearby the campsites cost. There is a separate backcountry area that is free to camp in, but you have to register to use it. The rangers do patrol the area too.

Spokes
05-25-2012, 22:06
This link should help:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/regulations-permits

Cheers!

Rain Man
05-25-2012, 22:09
Might need to define "backcountry" permits. To my knowledge, the AT doesn't run through any "backcountry" in either the GSMNP nor the SNP, for instance. Just food for thought so everyone is talking apples-to-apples.

Rain:sunMan

.

Spokes
05-25-2012, 22:14
GSMNP uses " backcountry permit" terminology. And you reserve sites and shelters through the Backcountry Reservations Office......

http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm

Saprogenic
05-25-2012, 23:28
I started to think I was going to need a series of permits to walk through the parks. Is camping outside of a campground illegal anywhere besides NJ? I don't want to have to worry about making it to the next 'checkpoint'. I think it'd be nice to setup my hammock at a nice spot or just walk until dark starts to come then setup nearby...

Mountain Mike
05-25-2012, 23:50
Just in Smokies. Shenendoah you can camp off trail if you follow their page long list of restrictions.

Furlough
05-26-2012, 09:13
§ 7.15 Shenandoah National Park.

(a) Backcountry camping. For purposes of clarification at Shenandoah
National Park, “backcountry camping” is defined as any use of portable shelter
or sleeping equipment in the backcountry. “Backcountry” is defined as those
areas of the park which are more than 250 yards from a paved road, and more than
one-half mile from any park facilities other than trails, unpaved roads and
trail shelters. The Superintendent may designate areas where backcountry camping
is prohibited if there would be potential damage to park resources or disruption
to other park uses. Such areas will be marked on maps available in the
Superintendent's office, visitor centers and ranger stations. A person or group
of persons may camp overnight at any other backcountry location within the park,
except:

(1) No person or group of persons traveling together may camp without a valid
backcountry camping permit. The issuance of this permit may be denied when such
action is necessary to protect park resources or park visitors, or to regulate
levels of visitor use in legislatively-designated wilderness areas;

(2) No person may camp in or with a group of more than nine (9) other
persons;

(3) No person or group may backcountry camp:

(i) Within 250 yards or in view from any paved park road or the park
boundary;

(ii) Within one-half mile or in view from any automobile campground, lodge,
restaurant, visitor center, picnic area, ranger station, administrative or
maintenance area, or other park development or facility except a trail, an
unpaved road or a trail shelter;

(iii) On or in view from any trail or unpaved road, or within sight of any
sign which has been posted by park authorities to designate a no camping
area;

(iv) Within view of another camping party, or inside or within view from a
trail shelter: Provided, however, That backcountry campers may seek
shelter and sleep within or adjacent to a trail shelter with other camping
groups, during periods of severely unseasonable weather when the protection and
amenities of such shelter are deemed essential;

(v) Within 25 feet of any stream; and

(4) No person shall backcountry camp more than two (2) consecutive nights at
a single location. The term “location” shall mean that particular campsite and
the surrounding area within a two hundred fifty (250) yard radius of that
campsite.

(b) Powerless flight. The use of devices designed to carry persons
through the air in powerless flight is allowed at times and locations designated
by the superintendent, pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.

(c) Sanitation. (1) The possession of food or beverage in discardable
glass containers is prohibited in the backcountry.

(2) Except in comfort facilities provided therefor, no person in the
backcountry shall urinate or defecate within ten (10) yards of any stream,
trail, unpaved road or park facility. Fecal material must be placed in a hole
and be covered with not less than three (3) inches of soil.

Rain Man
05-26-2012, 09:40
I started to think I was going to need a series of permits to walk through the parks. Is camping outside of a campground illegal anywhere besides NJ?

I just hiked Maryland last weekend. You can only camp at shelters and designated campsites. Sounds the same a New Jersey.

Rain Man

.

Cookerhiker
05-26-2012, 10:48
I started to think I was going to need a series of permits to walk through the parks. Is camping outside of a campground illegal anywhere besides NJ? I don't want to have to worry about making it to the next 'checkpoint'. I think it'd be nice to setup my hammock at a nice spot or just walk until dark starts to come then setup nearby...

Connecticut also restricts camping to designated sites only - some are shelters, some are campsites. Same for Harriman Park in NY. I believe Massachusetts has the same restriction but I'm not 100% sure about that one.

WIAPilot
05-26-2012, 12:47
So for the purposes of thru hiking the AT, are the only restrictions in GSMNP and SNP? Can you pretty much tent wherever you want the rest of the way or are there restrictions? If so, can someone provide a rundown of them?

GoldenBear
05-26-2012, 13:19
> So for the purposes of thru hiking the AT, are the only restrictions in GSMNP and SNP?
> Can you pretty much tent wherever you want the rest of the way or are there restrictions?

GSMP has VERY severe restrictions.
Shenandoah requires that you spend five minutes filling out a piece of paper for free, something you can do as you enter the Park. There are a few other restrictions, easily handled.
In New Jersey and Connecticut, you can ONLY camp at designated areas.
Same with Harriman State Park in New York.
For most of the Trail in Pennsylvania outside of designated campgrounds, you can only spend one night at each spot.
http://004f2f7.netsolhost.com/paoutdoors.html

You should thoroughly check the rules for each area you plan to hike through, and keep track of where you are. A thirty meter difference in where you camp could make a BIG difference in the legality of doing so.

canoe
05-26-2012, 13:25
(iii) On or in view from any trail or unpaved road, or within sight of any
sign which has been posted by park authorities to designate a no camping
area;
I am plannig a section hike through the park. I have never done a section hike throught the park before. My question is...if you cant set up with in sight of the trail how do you find a site to camp? is this reg inforced? and I am wondering what the rest of you guys and gals do while hiking through

Saprogenic
05-26-2012, 14:13
The last thing I want to be doing while hiking, worry about having my permits for my presence in public land. The AT people need to get together with these bastard parks and come up with a 'Thru-Hiker's Permit'. One piece of paper allowing you to be left the ***** alone.

Cookerhiker
05-26-2012, 15:36
So for the purposes of thru hiking the AT, are the only restrictions in GSMNP and SNP? Can you pretty much tent wherever you want the rest of the way or are there restrictions? If so, can someone provide a rundown of them?

Didn't you read the above posts?:-?

WIAPilot
05-26-2012, 15:39
Didn't you read the above posts?:-?

OH God. I made a mistake. Slay me now.

Rocket Jones
05-26-2012, 16:34
The last thing I want to be doing while hiking, worry about having my permits for my presence in public land. The AT people need to get together with these bastard parks and come up with a 'Thru-Hiker's Permit'. One piece of paper allowing you to be left the ***** alone.

These 'bastard parks' do yeoman's work with little funding to limit the amount of damage that millions of annual visitors do in the relatively contained spaces of our parks. Without them, what wasn't immediately developed or closed to public use would be trampled, rutted, defoilated and tagged with grafitti by unrestrained people swarming like ants through whatever was left of the woods. And that's not a typo, it's millions of visitors a year, of which thru-hikers are a tiny fraction of one percent. You don't want to fill out a free piece of paper to hike through? Boo-freakin'-Hoo.

/rant

kidchill
05-26-2012, 17:07
All I really need to know is...how heavy is a "powerless flight machine?" 'Cause I WANT one! As long as I follow the whiteblazes I'm still a purist, right?

Rasty
05-26-2012, 17:10
All I really need to know is...how heavy is a "powerless flight machine?" 'Cause I WANT one! As long as I follow the whiteblazes I'm still a purist, right?

That would be "Helium Blazing" which is not "Purist".

"Hydrogen Blazing" would be acceptable but stay away from camp fires!

WIAPilot
05-26-2012, 17:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K8zz9eI4-8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Saprogenic
05-27-2012, 07:43
These 'bastard parks' do yeoman's work with little funding to limit the amount of damage that millions of annual visitors do in the relatively contained spaces of our parks. Without them, what wasn't immediately developed or closed to public use would be trampled, rutted, defoilated and tagged with grafitti by unrestrained people swarming like ants through whatever was left of the woods. And that's not a typo, it's millions of visitors a year, of which thru-hikers are a tiny fraction of one percent. You don't want to fill out a free piece of paper to hike through? Boo-freakin'-Hoo.

/rant

Good to know people act like adults on here. I'm so happy to have found a group of helpful people like your fine selves. I did always here AT people were awesome people, always good-hearted, never full of sarcastic comments that serve one purpose, being a dick....

motlekj06
05-27-2012, 07:58
Sometimes I come to this site just to see the p*ssing contests that happen on each thread....no matter how genial the topic, Whiteblaze never fails to impress.

Creek Dancer
05-27-2012, 08:10
Good to know people act like adults on here. I'm so happy to have found a group of helpful people like your fine selves. I did always here AT people were awesome people, always good-hearted, never full of sarcastic comments that serve one purpose, being a dick....

Sometimes you get back what you dish out. Rocket Jones was spot on with his reply.

Oh, and thru-hikers don't deserve to be treated differently than anyone else enjoying the outdoors.

Furlough
05-27-2012, 08:12
Good to know people act like adults on here. I'm so happy to have found a group of helpful people like your fine selves. I did always here AT people were awesome people, always good-hearted, never full of sarcastic comments that serve one purpose, being a dick....

Act like adults? Like calling out the Park Service as Bastards for requiring something as simplistic and free as an easily obtainable permit, or calling someone a dick for writing a response that disagrees with yours? Perhaps your comments could be considered as formed by putrefaction as your screen name implies. I have both through hiked the SNP and hiked the SNP backcrounty many, many times. Getting the permit is simple, never was a bother and following the rules in no way has ever soured my backpacking experience. But then again I may be missing your point, as you do seem to imply that a thru-hiker should recieve special treatment just because they are a thru-hiker. If that is the point, simply said I disagree.

rocketsocks
05-27-2012, 08:32
Good to know people act like adults on here. I'm so happy to have found a group of helpful people like your fine selves. I did always here AT people were awesome people, always good-hearted, never full of sarcastic comments that serve one purpose, being a dick....So was that your attempt at sarcasm,if so please go back to sarcasm school,or get with the program,neither is really a big deal.

Spokes
05-27-2012, 09:10
Hiking the AT is like traveling with the circus...... And that's why I like Whiteblaze. Same group.

WIAPilot
05-27-2012, 09:35
Deep breaths, everyone. We are all going to have different opinions at times. Heck, probably a lot of times.

Saprogenic
05-27-2012, 09:52
Ok. Thanks anyway.

Saprogenic
05-27-2012, 09:56
So was that your attempt at sarcasm,if so please go back to sarcasm school,or get with the program,neither is really a big deal.

No, it's not, but it is frustrating everytime I ask an honest question on here I get a real response here or there, but drowned out by all the pointless comments. I have little paitience for drama and bull**** so I'll just figure it out as I go. Thanks anyway.

Rasty
05-27-2012, 10:40
Hiking the AT is like traveling with the circus...... And that's why I like Whiteblaze. Same group.

I want to drive the little car. Please. Please.

Rasty
05-27-2012, 10:42
Deep breaths, everyone. We are all going to have different opinions at times. Heck, probably a lot of times.

No we are not!:)

rocketsocks
05-27-2012, 23:52
No, it's not, but it is frustrating everytime I ask an honest question on here I get a real response here or there, but drowned out by all the pointless comments. I have little paitience for drama and bull**** so I'll just figure it out as I go. Thanks anyway.figure what out,the answers you sought were given you through the first 15 posts,yours on the other hand was where the sarcasm,and snarky starts.Why is it peeps cry,when it does not go there way,you don't want sarcasm,don't engage in it,that is the easiest way,but don't get all holyier than thou when you start a dialog of sarcasm,and then cry foul,Jersian please......

Veetack
05-28-2012, 03:30
Deep breaths, everyone. We are all going to have different opinions at times. Heck, probably a lot of times.

Wait.... there are times when we share opinions?

Wil
05-28-2012, 04:03
Wait.... there are times when we share opinions?Well, not recently. But there was a day in mid-July, 1985, on ARPANET (the post-Military-spinoff of ARPANET that eventually kinda became the Internet) where two "publicly" viewable messages expressed agreement. And there were reportedly several instances in the late 1970s/early 1980s on CBBS's of as many as six consecutive public messages without anybody being insulted (but I have researched this and believe the claims to be bogus).

Winds
05-28-2012, 06:14
OH God. I made a mistake. Slay me now.

As long as you fully understand the error of your ways.
Some of us have discussed this an may make a plea to God on your behalf to at least delay your slaying.
Don't get over-excited about it though, I said 'may', and God might not even hear our plea?
;)

WIAPilot: I brought this up (what you asked specifically) a couple months back.

The consensus then was there are only two (2) locations that will force you by rule to stay in a shelter and that is GSMNP and Baxter State Park. You mileage pros would know the numbers better, but that's LESS than 100 miles A.T. total where you MAY not be able to tent. (However in GSMNP you may tent next to a full shelter.)

If this is incorrect, someone please add the location.

rocketsocks
05-30-2012, 20:28
[QUOTE=rocketsocks;1292987]figure what out,the answers you sought were given you through the first 15 posts,yours on the other hand was where the sarcasm,and snarky starts.Why is it peeps cry,when it does not go there way,you don't want sarcasm,don't engage in it,that is the easiest way,but don't get all holyier than thou when you start a dialog of sarcasm,and then cry foul,Jersian please......[/QUOTEO]ver here,over here,there ya go hey whats up,in all fairness I beat ya here,but had it booked mark.So.....

Saprogenic
05-30-2012, 20:34
oh, I just got what that meant

rocketsocks
05-30-2012, 20:36
oh, I just got what that meant:welcomeback from camping trusting you had a good time,take a minute.it's all good.

Saprogenic
05-30-2012, 20:52
Had some new gear to try out. Just new to this online forum, talking to invisible people thing.

Saprogenic
05-30-2012, 20:53
Your tough talking to.

Saprogenic
05-30-2012, 20:57
I ask a question, you call me an *******, I try to politely respond in defense and explain, I get mocked. Forgive me for losing me temper.

rocketsocks
05-30-2012, 21:09
I ask a question, you call me an *******, I try to politely respond in defense and explain, I get mocked. Forgive me for losing me temper.Sapro,Sapro,Sapro,it's is all good,there is nothing here that can't be fixed.But please just go back to post number 16,and I'm sure you'll agree that it comes off a little sarcastic(which is fine)but then you got people being dicks,(and that's not fine)if it's not what you wanted to say.Either way,not a big deal..but not unwarranted either.:cool:

Saprogenic
05-30-2012, 21:17
I asked a question, sort of got answer. I'm done with these bitching contests. It feels like high school. Hope to not see you on the trail!

rocketsocks
05-30-2012, 21:20
I asked a question, sort of got answer. I'm done with these bitching contests. It feels like high school. Hope to not see you on the trail!Wow,why am I not supprised.Ya now,I don't even know what to say about that except....really,are you serious,.......I give up.See ya up the trail one day.later!

Rasty
05-30-2012, 21:54
I asked a question, sort of got answer. I'm done with these bitching contests. It feels like high school. Hope to not see you on the trail!Wow,why am I not supprised.Ya now,I don't even know what to say about that except....really,are you serious,.......I give up.See ya up the trail one day.later!

Well at least it wasn't me offending earlier in the thread. Lately I been guilty of that. I wonder how many members have become persona non grata and started a new alter member name. I also wonder how many of the "interesting" members are really just Lone Wolf playing a game? How many alter egos could one mentally balance?

Saprogenic
05-30-2012, 21:56
Wow,why am I not supprised.Ya now,I don't even know what to say about that except....really,are you serious,.......I give up.See ya up the trail one day.later!

well, you really seem content on discussing how pissed off I get. And frankly it's pissing me off. You'vegot to admit it's redundant. Over and Over, your right, I'm wrong, Your awesome, I'm an *******. It get annoying. If you want to have a no bs discussion anout anything other than how wrong/disliked I am, I'm all ears(or eyes), but that's not that case. Let's rehash what I said n post #16, and how it's not "fine". See my point?

WIAPilot
05-30-2012, 22:01
Well at least it wasn't me offending earlier in the thread. Lately I been guilty of that. I wonder how many members have become persona non grata and started a new alter member name. I also wonder how many of the "interesting" members are really just Lone Wolf playing a game? How many alter egos could one mentally balance?

I think even Lone Wolf has better things to do with his time...especially right now.

Cookerhiker
05-30-2012, 22:02
... I wonder how many members have become persona non grata and started a new alter member name. I also wonder how many of the "interesting" members are really just Lone Wolf playing a game? ...


I still think he's the "Kent Lady."

rocketsocks
05-30-2012, 22:05
well, you really seem content on discussing how pissed off I get. And frankly it's pissing me off. You'vegot to admit it's redundant. Over and Over, your right, I'm wrong, Your awesome, I'm an *******. It get annoying. If you want to have a no bs discussion anout anything other than how wrong/disliked I am, I'm all ears(or eyes), but that's not that case. Let's rehash what I said n post #16, and how it's not "fine". See my point?Nope,had your chance...muffed it!....kidding. Dude I don't care,and yes I'm a dick sometimes,but if ya say you don't get it,then I don't get it,and that is all...does mean I hate ya,don't know ya.I don't require an aopology,I don't need to be friends,And I dam sure don't need to be right,I really don't,if ya wanna drop it,cool.if not then yes we should probably take this to the PM level,either way I don't care.john R/S biggest a hole you ever met,and then some!

coach lou
05-30-2012, 22:07
I still think he's the "Kent Lady."

Marshas Aston-Martin was parked on West Cornwall Road this weekend. What was this thread about, anyway???

Rasty
05-30-2012, 22:15
... I wonder how many members have become persona non grata and started a new alter member name. I also wonder how many of the "interesting" members are really just Lone Wolf playing a game? ...


I still think he's the "Kent Lady."

The "Kent Ladt" was my favorite! I only wish I had the creativity to make something like that up.

Rasty
05-30-2012, 22:18
I still think he's the "Kent Lady."

Marshas Aston-Martin was parked on West Cornwall Road this weekend. What was this thread about, anyway???

Cheese I think. Or guns

rocketsocks
05-30-2012, 22:28
The "Kent Ladt" was my favorite! I only wish I had the creativity to make something like that up.Yeah,but she gave it up to quick.Ya can't set the hook just because you got a bite,every good troll knows you gotta tell some stories first engage your audience,make em feel useful.....then and only then,ya pull back as hard as you can....Ametures she was,armature.oh and the anwser to your question is 3

Biggie Master
05-30-2012, 22:57
Wow... I almost forgot what the original post was about. Oh yeah - PERMITS. Sure, I think it's simple - pick them up as you enter the parks where they're required, fill in your information, and then follow the rules of the park. Simple. If you want to check out a book, you have to have a library card. If you want to drive a car, you have to get a drivers license. And if you want to hike/camp in these parks, you have to fill out a permit. At least you don't have a long line at the DMV to get these permits, but you should do the research BEFORE you go, so that you know the areas that require permits. I think enough of the friendly WB folks have tried to offer that assistance and information.

Wil
05-30-2012, 22:57
Hope to not see you on the trail!Don't split. Hope not to see you on the trail!

attroll
05-31-2012, 10:40
Thread closed. Served its purpose and strayed to far off subject.