View Full Version : Over Planning
kayak karl
05-28-2012, 19:39
I know many look back and feel they over planned. Planning for things that never happened. Not planning for things that did. All my planning was shot to heck by Neel Gap (to be honest the approach trail) :)
What things did you say you would or would not do changed in first week?
Do you look back at planning as a total waist of time?
Today my planning consists of; 1- bills paid at home 2-logistics to and from trip 3-food to first re-supply
takes about 2 hours not two years :)
KK&K
Rocket Jones
05-28-2012, 19:59
Wise words Karl. To this I might add: 4-make sure your support team/journal transcriber at home are comfortable with the flexibility needed. Especially because they're going to think that you need a schedule and plan.
Amen Brother! :) You are right on the money.
Cat in the Hat
I don't believe you can ever overplan for something. Just because your plans didn't work out, doesn't mean there wasn't value in the planning process as the information learned can still be useful. And you can learn alot from what went wrong with your plans. If you ever feel like you didn't plan for the right thing, it just means you didn't plan enough, not over plan. Overplanning means you have a plan B and then eventually a plan Z to fall back on. But you should never be married to your plans, you should always assume you'll be making changes based on what you encounter.
The problem with most peoples plans is they are based on wrong assumptions as they don't have the experience or proper information to make realistic ones. In the case of a thru-hike, making pre- backpacing trips with your gear in different conditions trying to replicate the trail environment is the only way you can learn the information that you need to make a reasonable plan.
On my PCT thru-hike I found that I could predict the next 2-3 weeks pretty accurately (not campsites as that is pointless to plan), but any further than that the accuracy dropped rapidly. I had tested my gear out in more extreme conditions that I ever experienced on my thru-hike so I was never caught off guard by weather. I'm in the process of planning an AT SOBO hike for July and I'd rather find that I overplanned and over reserached it. Besides, it gives you something to do while you wait at home before leaving.
Lone Wolf
05-28-2012, 20:41
the only thing i "planned" on any of my walks was the day of departure and a train ticket
Blissful
05-28-2012, 20:42
I dream and read for a long time about the area I wish to hike. Buy and prepare food for a few weeks ahead of time. But since I know what I'm doing ppetty much and really have my gear, planning is not a big a deal as it used to be as a newbie.
Besides, it gives you something to do while you wait at home before leaving.
I resemble this comment.
Boxer Floyd Patterson once said " Everyone's got a plan 'til they get hit".
heheheheeee...... To me the goal of over planning is to prevent being that annoying guy that's always saying "Hey, can I borrow... (fill in the blank)?".
I created a three ring binder during my AT planning phase. I even included an Excel spreadsheet with daily mileages, maildrops, vital personal information, and links to Zappo's for shoe/bolt replacements.
Of course the "notebook" ended up being more beneficial for my girlfriend back home. The zappo's link came in handy since they dropped shipped boots for me to a couple of hostels I stayed at in New England. Didn't have to waste my time with the crappy outfitters in places like Kent, CT. :D
rocketsocks
05-29-2012, 07:02
Boxer Floyd Patterson once said " Everyone's got a plan 'til they get hit".Yes,and Hannibal Smith (the A team)said "I love it when a good plan comes together"
And B.A. Barracus (also the A team)says "And don't be comin up with one your stupid plans Hannibal,cause I ain't fallin for it this time"
I'm a planner from way back,and part of my plan is just to let life happen on life's terms,you'll be much happier this way.
On Maps~ using maps are a great start to show me where I could go.
On Food~ Don't eat when your hungry,eat when you have food,and don't buy what you want,or even what you need,buy what you can afford.
On Shelter~ hey let's face it,shelter is where you find it.
On Luxuries~ Hmm,all the above are Luxuries.
I can be ready to go on a 3 week hike on familiar trail in about 2 hours if I don't have to make a trip to the grocery store.
For longer hikes, like my upcoming Long Trail E2E I'm planning resupply, a zero, etc. I would be willing to bet I follow my plan more or less to the letter.
The trick to making a plan is to make sure it is one that can be followed.
fiddlehead
05-29-2012, 07:59
the only thing i "planned" on any of my walks was the day of departure and a train ticket
What about a SOBO hike?
Abol bridge store is slim pickings for 100 miles of hiking.
Lone Wolf
05-29-2012, 08:05
What about a SOBO hike?
Abol bridge store is slim pickings for 100 miles of hiking.
i did a SOBO hike. abol store had plenty of choices for me
garlic08
05-29-2012, 08:30
Depends on the trail. If you can buy a guide for it, no planning is needed other than looking ahead to the first or next "grocery store" icon in the data book or map. Like for an AT SOBO, you'd hopefully figure out you should buy about week's worth of groceries in Millinocket/Medway before leaving town. But that depends on already knowing your pace and capabilities, and whether you should believe the sign just south of Abol Bridge that says you should bring ten days of food into the 100 mile wilderness (I brought four days and did not die like the sign said I would).
If Yogi hasn't yet written a guide for your chosen trail, planning becomes a little more serious. Then you have to figure out more details, make some phone calls, set up food drops with people who've never held a food drop before, etc. Try to find a ranger who's even been on the ground since the '88 fire....
In the fire academy, I was taught that Lieutenant Murphy always shows up, quickly followed by Captain Chaos. Pre-planning and training is critical, so muscle memory takes over when things go wrong. A long distance hiker should be able to roll with the punches, and be flexible when it comes to a plan. You should know you won't die if your filter breaks and you drink untreated spring water for a day or two, or you run low on food and your last breakfast before your resupply is one cashew. You might learn the meaning of hunger and that's not a bad thing.
Sent you an off-topic PM, check it when you can. thanks.
Sent you an off-topic PM, check it when you can. thanks.
Sorry, Please Disregard, mis-sent and I don't see a way to delete it.
Planning is just that; a plan. It can be altered, adapted to or adjusted to meet the needs and goals of the day. I plan every day with certains goal in mind. How I get there may be according to the plan or with adjustments. Adapting to the situation is the key to any goal in life.
BTW, if you plan, backwards plan.
Tumbleweed
Planning makes you much more aware of your options once you are out on the trail and you find that your original plans are flawed, or simply are not working for you. Makes it much easier to adjust mid-stream effectively.
For those very experienced with distance hiking, planning can be a simple as KK stated in his original post, and you can still adjust quickly when necessary. For those who are not experienced, taking time to consider your options ahead of time will be valuable.
kayak karl
05-29-2012, 19:03
when i posted this i was just laughing at myself. i planned for 2 years. since i had never been on AT (except DWG) i expected something different. sent a lot of stuff back at Neel gap. the items i was told not to take by yous guys. :) i said i would take no zeros. took 2 near zeros then 3 zero days at NOC. LOL
i do read about places before i go, but leave with an open mind and open schedule now. i looking back i don't regret the over planning, but do smile when i think of it. :)
KK&K
It sounds like I was the minority here, I planned for almost two years for my pct thru. What is surprising is that I am not a planner AT ALL. But I knew that I needed to pretty serious plan to be able to hit my 100 hiking window. Also, this was my first thru hike though I have pretty extensive backpacking experience. How did it work?
1) I was within three days of my planned schedule at all times during the trip. This was in spite of one of worst snow conditions since the trail was built. Did I deviate from " the plan"? Absolutely, and I adjusted to conditions and refined some aspects of things such as zeros.
2) food. Again I was in the minority and reapplied over 80% through mail drops. But because I "over planned" it, it worked. I had something like 17 different dinners, 6-8 different kinds of jam and jelly and a dozen different breakfast options. So I had a much better menu than the typical hiker and certainly better than those that think they can eat oatmeal, couscous, mashed potatoes and trail mix the entire trip. The proof for me is that there is little that I would change if doing the same hike again.
3) I am a big believer in testing the plan prior to the trip. Little was left to chance as far as gear, nutrition, consumables, etc. So, for me that meant that during my trip I could just hike and enjoy the trip, not worry about grocery shopping, the next resupply point, replacing worn gear etc. that all happened prior to the trip.
Now having said all this, if I were doing more of a traditional thru hike I could absolutely wing it and leave. I learned that the trail will provide what is needed and if you are flexible then time can solve most problems. On most of my shorter trips like the at in Shenandoah last weekend, I grabbed the pack, through in whatever food I had and left, the rest worked itself out.
WIAPilot
05-29-2012, 23:24
To me, planning is totally part of the journey. A huge, exciting part where I can prepare for obstacles or make interesting detours, etc. it doesn't mean that I have to follow my plan, but t least I'll be somewhat prepared.
Plan if it makes you feel more secure, but let yourself unravel when your plans do. Flexible trees bend when the storm comes. Rigid ones break.
Rain Man
05-30-2012, 08:04
To me, planning is totally part of the journey. A huge, exciting part ...
Have to agree. Woodsmen and sportsmen have known and written this for a long time now, as in:
From the preface of "Camping and Woodcraft" by Horace Kephart
"Solomon himself knew the heart of man no better than that fine old sportsman who said to me 'It isn't the fellow who's catching lots of fish and shooting plenty of game that's having the good time: it's the chap who's "getting ready to do it".'"
Rain:sunMan
.
Mrs Baggins
05-30-2012, 08:07
Whenever I see threads about making spread sheets for food and calorie expenditure, gear weight, etc I always think "Good grief! Just pack up and go!"
rocketsocks
05-31-2012, 02:01
Have to agree. Woodsmen and sportsmen have known and written this for a long time now, as in:
From the preface of "Camping and Woodcraft" by Horace Kephart
"Solomon himself knew the heart of man no better than that fine old sportsman who said to me 'It isn't the fellow who's catching lots of fish and shooting plenty of game that's having the good time: it's the chap who's "getting ready to do it".'"
Rain:sunMan
.Rain :sun Man I like that saying alot,it cuts right to it...in a round about sorta way.
fiddlehead
05-31-2012, 03:14
OK, I'm in the "not much of a plan" group.
But right now, I'm supposed to decide today whether to buy my ticket to Borneo to climb this mountain and I just looked at the weather. (I knew I shouldn't have)
It's supposed to rain every day this month in Borneo!!!
So, what to do?
Spend the $260 for air tickets and hope there's a window?
Or wait till next year?
It's a tough one.
It's not that I'm opposed to hiking in the rain, but the govt. now makes you take a guide and they don't go when the weather is bad. (lightning)
So, this thread and my philosophy (normal one anyway) tells me to just go.
But, we just had 8 days of rain here in Thailand and it's headed east.
I guess I'm starting to get a little prudent in my old age.
Oh well, I will climb this mountain one of these years. (and not at 2AM either) (I'm up for the one day climb)
hikerboy57
05-31-2012, 07:51
im a section hiker so for me,overplanning is a way to stay immersed in the trail experience when i'm not on the trail. im guilty of both over and under planning as im somewhat impulsive. the overplanning part allows me to know all the blue blazes and terrain so that i can be flexible in my hikes as well as be prepared with exits routes in bad weather. on the other hand, i impulsively took off a few days from work for some stress relief, headed up to SW Mass for a couple of days between sages ravine and jug end, missed the turnoff from 22 to cr41, ended up in vermont,some 70+ miles out of my way, didnt hit the trailhead till 3:30, and when i got to camp, realized i was one meal short for the trip. had a great weekend regardless.
i need to get out more.
AngryGerman
05-31-2012, 20:34
In regards to planning if I may! A long time ago when I was prepping to go to US Army Ranger School my Platoon Sgt gave me some of the best advice I have ever heard, he said "remember the seven p's when it comes to planning"; "Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance". No matter the occasion or event you plan for just remember the seven p's and backwards plan.
I'll be loosely planning from now until I hit the trail. I plan on making a basic list of nightly stops and resupply, but ultimately once I get the gear I want, which is just about done and will change because I love looking at gear, Only food matters to me on the trail. I'm gonna plan for the longest section without resupply, stuff that much crap in my pack if it doesn't fit get another pack and Grab and go to maine. I've done a fair amount of hiking but having a store along the route just seems foreign to me still because I've never hiked over a week and a half.
It's not planning, it's "mind hiking". I do alot of that. By the time I get to the trail, I have already made the hike in my mind. Of course the weather is a little worse and the hills a bit higher but I have encountered and worked out most of the possible problems in advance of hiking.
hikerboy57
06-05-2012, 07:38
My careful overplanning lets me be more impulsive.
Old Hiker
06-05-2012, 08:01
After 500 miles before injuries forced me off this year, my planning for 2016 will be:
a. Looking at re-supply points a LOT more. I really didn't think those through before starting and was depending on other hikers for advice. It worked out, but I was carrying WAY too much food. You pack what you are afraid of and I was afraid of running out of food. Up to Damascus there are plenty of re-supply points.
b. As soon as my ankle allows me, I'm going to start walking more to both keep the weight off I lost and to try and maintain a semblance of physical fitness that will allow me to gradually intensify my physical preparation for the 2016 hike. I was NOT in shape at the beginning and that really slowed me down.
c. I'm gonna keep juggling gear, getting my weight down without sacrificing too much comfort. Examples: I had a Marmot Trestle 30* bag - 3 lbs 14 oz. Steep and Cheap had a Marmot 30* bag - 2 lbs 6 oz. En rating 1.5 degrees lower, lighter and I like the hood area a LOT better. I had a 3/4 Thermarest inflatable with a 1/4 inch foam pad, went to a full length ALPS Comfort system with the 1/4 inch foam pad and finally settled on just a Thermarest Ridgerest foam pad. Took a while, but I can sleep on just the Ridgerest, even on hard ground.
While I was hiking, I would constantly watch the Trail topo and weather, thinking about when/where to stop, what to do if a t-storm came up, how I was going to set up camp, etc. It kept my mind busy and I was mentally prepared for when things happened. I practiced setting up my tent as fast as possible in good weather so when it started raining, I was prepared to set up quickly. In the mornings, I practiced packing up inside the tent so when it rained, I knew what I was going to do.
Practicing camp set up, cooking, hiking, etc. when out on a weekend or week long hike is one thing, but when you are on the Trail, it seems to be a bit different, since you know you don't have a quick way out if something goes wrong. It does help sort gear out, allow you to see what you need/don't need, how to deal with broken gear, etc., though.
hikerboy57
06-21-2012, 08:39
let the overplanning begin!!
Ive been granted a month off to section maine sobo, and im psyched!
ive got a little over a month to plan, and although i've already got it mapped out pretty well in my head., its now time to begin overplanning!!agonizing over my choice of stove, whether to bring the summer bag or warmer, stove choice? bought a closed cell pad,am i better off with my ba air core, check the kennebec ferry schedule a million times(just to be sure).
actually the toughest part for me is getting up there to start. made my reservations at BSP already, but getting there from where i live isnt easy. i have a choice of flying to bangor for $560 and be in bangor in 2 1/2 hours, or taking a 10 hr bus ride for $54. problem there is the bus leaves NYC at 7am, and it takes me over an hour to get to the terminal from where i live by LIRR so ill have to leave my house at 4am to get to bangor at app 5:30, no train.
Coffee Rules!
06-21-2012, 09:53
I'm officially changing the designation of my planning to research. :p 2014 is a long way off, and I'm not 100% sure I'm going to hike. The more I read, though, the more I'm drawn in.
I love the diversity of opinions and methods here, and that they all seem to work.
Most of my planning all involves gear, and what works best for what situation, etc. Mostly I do this just because I am a gear junkie and like to talk about what different people are using and what seems like the most popular option. By planning out the correct gear to bring (and not bring) ahead of time, it saves me the cost of having to refit at Neels and send a lot of stuff back home. Trying to stick to a schedule seems rather pointless, at least a daily or weekly schedule, although having goals certainly isn't a bad thing. The other planning I like to do is find out what sort of etiquette is expected. For instance, before reading about it here, I might have thought about leaving some extra food for the next hikers at a shelter just to be nice. Now I know that is just likely to attract bears/rodent and it is best left at a hostel or somewhere they have a box set up for that sort of thing.
when i posted this i was just laughing at myself. i planned for 2 years. since i had never been on AT (except DWG) i expected something different. sent a lot of stuff back at Neel gap. the items i was told not to take by yous guys. :) i said i would take no zeros. took 2 near zeros then 3 zero days at NOC. LOL
i do read about places before i go, but leave with an open mind and open schedule now. i looking back i don't regret the over planning, but do smile when i think of it. :)
KK&K
Great post Karl! I had a VERY similar experience! Maddog :)
Monkeywrench
06-21-2012, 12:10
There's nothing wrong with over-planning, just don't let it get in the way of your hike.
Making a plan is a lot like making a budget. Anybody can make one but is it realistic and does it have enough flexibility to work.
If you can't make a good plan there's no use in trying because no plan is better than a bad plan. But if you know how to do make one a plan is a great thing to have.
coach lou
06-21-2012, 13:05
16363Todays mail. Did I tell you folks...I like maps........................Let the overplanning begin!
Monkeywrench
06-21-2012, 13:29
16363Todays mail. Did I tell you folks...I like maps........................Let the overplanning begin!
Maps are awesome. Leave the guidebook at home.
forrest!
06-21-2012, 14:47
actually the toughest part for me is getting up there to start. made my reservations at BSP already, but getting there from where i live isnt easy. i have a choice of flying to bangor for $560 and be in bangor in 2 1/2 hours, or taking a 10 hr bus ride for $54. problem there is the bus leaves NYC at 7am, and it takes me over an hour to get to the terminal from where i live by LIRR so ill have to leave my house at 4am to get to bangor at app 5:30, no train.
Don't overlook the possibility of renting a car one-way, from airport to airport. You could drive JFK to Bangor, and then take the local bus to Medway and get shuttled from there. For you it would only be a one day drive, and much cheaper than flying. And you don't have to deal with the TSA or checking your pack.
hikerboy57
06-21-2012, 14:54
Don't overlook the possibility of renting a car one-way, from airport to airport. You could drive JFK to Bangor, and then take the local bus to Medway and get shuttled from there. For you it would only be a one day drive, and much cheaper than flying. And you don't have to deal with the TSA or checking your pack.
thank you thats an option i hadnt considered.i dont want to fly for the reasons you mentioned as well as the expense.
(but im not ready to commit to that decision until ive examined all possible options endlessly:)).