PDA

View Full Version : More Smokers every year on the trail?



The Kisco Kid
06-05-2012, 13:57
Out this past weekend doing the southern half of the Shenandoah's. I noticed more smokers, especially among thrus than I ever have. I've been section hiking the trail for almost 20 years, in all 14 states, and it seems like there are more and more smokers every year, while in the rest of America it's the exact opposite.

Has anyone else has noticed this? What's the deal?

(I'm an ex-smoker so maybe that plays into my hyper-awareness. I also live in New York where it's +$10 a pack..)

sbhikes
06-05-2012, 14:22
I noticed this while hiking a section of the PCT this year. People actually smoke while they are hiking! My boyfriend also did a section a few weeks before me and said he was shocked that everybody was smoking.

WIAPilot
06-05-2012, 14:33
If you are out west or in the California area, you never see this. I mean, I actually don't think I have ever encountered even ONE hiker smoking on the trail. At least I haven't with over 35 yrs of hiking. In Virginia and North Carolina, they grow tobacco so I think traditionally more people smoke. I honestly don't know how they can do both. But I can pretty much tell you that there are very few OLD hikers who smoke. It just is too hard on your lungs over time.

RedBeerd
06-05-2012, 14:34
5 out of the 6 thru hikers ive met this year smoked. Seems high!

bigcranky
06-05-2012, 14:50
I saw a lot of thru and section hikers smoking this year. Possibly the majority of hikers that I saw in a week in central Virginia. They walk into a shelter, sit down, and light up. Another reason to tent or hammock :) .

As a former smoker, I'm possibly more attuned to it as well.

tiptoe
06-05-2012, 14:53
I've noticed it too, and I've been section hiking for about 6 years. It surprises me, too.

slowfeet
06-05-2012, 15:01
I wonder if I'll be the only idiot on the trail with a E Cig.....

rocketsocks
06-05-2012, 15:06
I wonder if I'll be the only idiot on the trail with a E Cig.....Who cares,whatever you gotta do to quit,you wont regret it,I've been smoke free for 8 years now,and have never looked back,it really does give you your life back when you quit,great luck to you with that.

coach lou
06-05-2012, 15:08
12 years, non-smoker, but when I did I'd lite up every time I'd get off the ice. I do remember not taking any when I hiked, and chain smoking on the way home.

hikerboy57
06-05-2012, 15:21
All the cool kids are doing it.

rocketsocks
06-05-2012, 15:31
All the cool kids are doing it.Just last night my wife and I attended a court of honor for a young man that was in her cub scout pack,and he was receiving his Eagle scout with additional palms,of 5 more merit badges.It amazes me how some kids can take on enormous amounts of responsibility,civic and personal,and that others(myself included)pitched it for a pipe dream.It was a great ceremony for a real nice young man,and I was proud to be there.good job Peter!you earned it.

RaveDigger
06-05-2012, 15:32
I wonder if I'll be the only idiot on the trail with a E Cig.....

I bring mine backpacking all the time. Haven't done the AT yet, but I always have it with me when I hike.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

slowfeet
06-05-2012, 15:34
thanks RS... technically I've already quit tobacco. (still smoke when I drink and people have smokes to bum).

It's been 1.5 years since I bought my last pack.... Now to quit the e cig.... hoping the burden of keeping it charged up, and having related supplies will let me do so. At the same time worried about buying a pack. (and smoking a cigarette in the "woods", especially on a peak, was a really nice way to end the day IIRC... which, isn't going to help). The thought of a carton of cigs in a bounce box is making my mouth water right now.....

Slo-go'en
06-05-2012, 16:31
Over the years I've noticed that a high percentage of the thru-hikers I've meet in Maine smoke. I belive the reason so many smokers make it to Maine is because they take a lot of rest breaks and are less likely to push too hard, which often results in burning out or injury.

I've noticed that since I quite smoking a few years ago, I don't take nearly as many sit down breaks as I used to, but going up hills is easier :) Although I do miss my pipe...

bfayer
06-05-2012, 16:37
I am just a section hiker and I have never smoked, but you are exactly right. Every shelter, every summit, every good spot for a break, as soon as they stop they light up, and I move on. One guy was offended a couple of weeks ago in MD because I got up and left when he lit up.

10, 15 years ago I didn't see it as much, and when someone did smoke they mostly asked if anyone minded. I have no idea why the change, but there has been a change in the last few years.

pervy_sage
06-05-2012, 18:13
Nicotine is good for you, but I stick to expensive cigars and so I won't smoke as much.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/14/science/researchers-investigate-horrors-nicotine-s-potential-benefits.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Double Wide
06-05-2012, 18:19
I've never smoked a cigarette in my life, but I *do* love to smoke cigars and my pipe on occasion. When I finally hit the trail, I'll carry a pack of Backwoods every now and then, (which I always take camping and hiking with me now, anyways) and when I finally, someday, hit the summit of Big K, I'm going to light up the the tastiest Partagas Black Label in the history of mankind!

hobby
06-05-2012, 19:25
22yrs quit. I try not to be one of THOSE ex-smokers but don't stay around smokers. It's not that the smoke offends me---I'm afraid it will temp me. Don't want to have to quit again! Too hard!!!

Montana AT05
06-05-2012, 19:45
I don't know about on trail, but I've noticed a lot of young people (early 20's) buying cigarettes at a tobacco/newspaper shop in my home town (I know the owner and the guys who work there so often spend time there when buying the paper to talk politics etc). Most cigarette buyers strike as surprisingly young and many are buying roll-your-own-tobacco despite the onorous taxes placed on it (likely on behalf of the manufactured cig lobby in Washington).

Having been one of those highly opinionated anti-smokers for years, I've noticed myself mellow a bit (after discovering how much more pleasant roll-your-own's are). I still don't advocate it as a hobby, but truth be known, I'm a caffeine addict....

But of the smoking hikers I recently recall, they were young and fast hikers. In twenty years, they will likely be neither of those two things. Then again, I might drop dead right after drinking a fresh fruit smoothie.

All that said, smoking in or near a shelter should be a no-no--as should be cell phone use. And dropping cig butts on the ground should be punishable by having your face rubbed in it. <bad smoker, bad, look what you've done....(wags finger)>

stranger
06-05-2012, 19:57
Out this past weekend doing the southern half of the Shenandoah's. I noticed more smokers, especially among thrus than I ever have. I've been section hiking the trail for almost 20 years, in all 14 states, and it seems like there are more and more smokers every year, while in the rest of America it's the exact opposite.

Has anyone else has noticed this? What's the deal?

(I'm an ex-smoker so maybe that plays into my hyper-awareness. I also live in New York where it's +$10 a pack..)

I noticed this on my 2008 hike...I was smoking at the time. I have quit a few times in my life and have finally kicked it for good thank god.

I don't have a problem with smokers...but I think you are f'ing insane if you smoke beyond your early 30's, I waited too long to quit...I smoked til 35. I really hope I get away with it!

One of the main reasons I got off smokes was how rare it is these days, and to me it was always something I would rather not do...but I was addicted obviously.

I remember someone I respect saying something like 'no one is going to take you seriously if you smoke in this day and age'. It's true...maybe it's unfair but it's absolutely true.

msupple
06-05-2012, 21:06
I just came off the trail and I was shocked at how many thru hikers were smoking. Almost all of them werre rolling their own btw....probably the only way they could afford it. I was thrilled at how well my lungs were working after a couple hundred miles...I couldn't imagine sucking smoke down into them.


Cat in the Hat

Hellush
06-05-2012, 21:15
I can hardly wait to walk the Wonderland in September. Will light up at the highest point on the trail if for no other reason than to screw with the overly moralistic, super duper healthy, you-should-never-do-things-others-don't-like crowd.

Theosus
06-05-2012, 21:15
Thankfully there are so many laws prohibiting smoking in restaurants, malls, theme parks and other venues. Maybe the smokers are forced to smoke way out in the middle of nowhere if they want to light up at all. If you smoke near me I'm probably going to get up and leave too, especially if you are upwind.
Just take your butts with you... those darn filters seem to last forever, and are everywhere. I wish they'd make a law prohibiting filters on cigarettes. The whole thing should be biodegradable.
But if you want to smoke while you're walking along, go ahead.

pervy_sage
06-05-2012, 21:19
I remember someone I respect saying something like 'no one is going to take you seriously if you smoke in this day and age'. It's true...maybe it's unfair but it's absolutely true.

As with most things, no one is taken seriously if they stop trying. Success is just a joyous byproduct of persistence.


I've never smoked a cigarette in my life, but I *do* love to smoke cigars and my pipe on occasion. When I finally hit the trail, I'll carry a pack of Backwoods every now and then, (which I always take camping and hiking with me now, anyways) and when I finally, someday, hit the summit of Big K, I'm going to light up the the tastiest Partagas Black Label in the history of mankind!

Backwoods are the best cheap cigar made, and it keeps the skeeters away (or other annoying pests). I'm a Macanudo person though. Partagas are a bit too acidic for my taste. Smoke your own smoke I s'pose.

rainmaker
06-05-2012, 22:43
I am just a section hiker and I have never smoked, but you are exactly right. Every shelter, every summit, every good spot for a break, as soon as they stop they light up, and I move on. One guy was offended a couple of weeks ago in MD because I got up and left when he lit up.

10, 15 years ago I didn't see it as much, and when someone did smoke they mostly asked if anyone minded. I have no idea why the change, but there has been a change in the last few years.

I finished VT, NH and Maine last year and the same was true with a good number of thru hikers smoking and just like you said, they would get to a shelter or rest spot and light up. Being old and crotchety I would politely but firmly ask them to go smoke elsewhere. Most would comply with no complaints. A few would complain but comply. It was almost as if it never entered their mind that smoking may be offensive to others. I did prefer to stay in a tent BTW, but there are times when a shelter offers advantages. I took the same position when people showed up with their dog and wanted the foul smelling wet rascal to stay in the shelter.

Mr. Bumpy
06-05-2012, 22:50
Smoking does keep the bugs away. I used to keep a pack with me when I used to tour on a bicycle because you tend to spend more time in camp than when hiking. Firing up a cigarette or cigar always seemed to deter mosquitos and flies. Now I just go for the good stuff--DEET.

Different Socks
06-05-2012, 23:46
I saw a lot of thru and section hikers smoking this year. Possibly the majority of hikers that I saw in a week in central Virginia. They walk into a shelter, sit down, and light up. Another reason to tent or hammock :) .

As a former smoker, I'm possibly more attuned to it as well.

Know what I tell people that light up a cigarette or cigar or any other smoking product while i am in a shelter? I ask them to please step away from the shelter and to smoke somewhere else. If they even dare to say, "I can do whatever I please, wherever I please." I respond this way, "You have an option to smoke, I don't have an option to breath. You are forcing me to to go somewhere else to breath comfortably just so you can smoke, which is a option for you. GO DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!!".
Works every time!!

Andrewsobo
06-06-2012, 04:18
I don't smoke personally, but I don't really see what the big deal is. It's not the end of the world if someone smokes near me, I guess I'm just not uptight about it.

coach lou
06-06-2012, 05:13
Smoking does keep the bugs away. I used to keep a pack with me when I used to tour on a bicycle because you tend to spend more time in camp than when hiking. Firing up a cigarette or cigar always seemed to deter mosquitos and flies. Now I just go for the good stuff--DEET.

Do you use a crack pipe to smoke DEET?

fiddlehead
06-06-2012, 05:17
OK, 28 posts and only one mentioned what immedietly came to my mind: How do they afford it?
Aren't they like $5 a pack now? Even more in New York I believe.

I quit 25 years ago but still get tempted to have one sometimes. Especially when I'm on a break in the middle of a hike.
I've kept my will power in control though and haven't succumbed.

Up to them if they want to smoke, the outdoors would be the best place.
I have no problem with it, just don't burn down the shelters (or the woods)

coach lou
06-06-2012, 05:21
OK, 28 posts and only one mentioned what immedietly came to my mind: How do they afford it?
Aren't they like $5 a pack now? Even more in New York I believe.

I quit 25 years ago but still get tempted to have one sometimes. Especially when I'm on a break in the middle of a hike.
I've kept my will power in control though and haven't succumbed.

Up to them if they want to smoke, the outdoors would be the best place.
I have no problem with it, just don't burn down the shelters (or the woods)

In Connecticut they are now $8+. When I stopped on the Millenium they were $3.50. I have no idea where that money went and how i would deal with $50+ per week. It would be cheaper to smoke pot.

Jeff
06-06-2012, 05:44
Funny how some hikers are planning to hike on that $1 per mile budget. Smokes will soon cost AT hikers about $1 per mile.:rolleyes:

bfayer
06-06-2012, 06:06
I finished VT, NH and Maine last year and the same was true with a good number of thru hikers smoking and just like you said, they would get to a shelter or rest spot and light up. Being old and crotchety I would politely but firmly ask them to go smoke elsewhere. Most would comply with no complaints. A few would complain but comply. It was almost as if it never entered their mind that smoking may be offensive to others. I did prefer to stay in a tent BTW, but there are times when a shelter offers advantages. I took the same position when people showed up with their dog and wanted the foul smelling wet rascal to stay in the shelter.

If I am trying to eat or if I am staying for the night, I will ask them to go somewhere else, but if I am just taking a break, I will move on. As for the cost, that makes me wonder also. I have not done a comprehensive study, but it seems to me that there is a correlation between hikers that smoke in shelters and hikers that are trying to mooch stuff off me, which also seems to happen more often these days.

It's an interesting contradiction. They hike for independence and freedom, but they are addicted to tobacco and don't have enough fuel to cook dinner without help :confused:

fins1838
06-06-2012, 07:07
The AT in Md,Pa, & W.Va is full of butts. Disgusting. Packem out.

fins1838
06-06-2012, 07:11
excellent point.

hikerboy57
06-06-2012, 07:18
The AT in Md,Pa, & W.Va is full of butts. Disgusting. Packem out.
This above all is inexcusable.
They dont weigh much.
im a smoker and it always upsets me when im packing out someone elses butts.and i do fimd afew at almost every campsite and shelter.

coach lou
06-06-2012, 07:21
The AT in Md,Pa, & W.Va is full of butts. Disgusting. Packem out.

Side trail here but, it's like hikeing into the sticks and you find trash....Your so green that you came all the way up here and you left trash! uh! what is up with that!

pervy_sage
06-06-2012, 07:27
Smoking does keep the bugs away. I used to keep a pack with me when I used to tour on a bicycle because you tend to spend more time in camp than when hiking. Firing up a cigarette or cigar always seemed to deter mosquitos and flies. Now I just go for the good stuff--DEET.

That is the part I find funny. Certain folks ranting about having to breath the highly diluted secondhand smoke in small doses, yet they are more than happy to slather on toxic chemicals to keep bugs away while eating nitrate laden ramen noodles washed down with a soda chock full of high fructose corn syrup while packing 20 lbs. of man-made materials on their back that likely contributed to poisoning or exploiting several small villages in some other remote corner of the world. But because that cig is right in their face, they have a problem.

And if you are vegan natural fiber wearing cowboy camping free trade tree hugging angel, obviously I wasn't talking about you so feel free to bitch about other peoples vices that you don't have.

Respect is a mutually agreed upon commodity.

And I concur with the pack out your butt crowd for what it is worth.

hikerboy57
06-06-2012, 07:33
Very well said

10-K
06-06-2012, 08:47
I don't smoke-smoke... I mean I don't carry around a pack of cigarettes in real life or have the smoking habit but I do carry a pack with me on hikes.

There are times when I get frustrated, stressed out, or like on my BMT hike have a frightening moment and what I will do is take my pack off, lean up against a tree and have a smoke just to chill out and reboot.

Another Kevin
06-06-2012, 09:37
I suppose a cigarette is lighter to carry, but I'd much rather chill out and reboot with a cup of tea. Even if it did draw me a strange look the last time I was out when I said to another party of hikers, "you guys can have the lean-to to yourselves if you want it, we're just having afternoon tea and moving on." (What the heck, Colin Fletcher always had his afternoon tea on the trail!)

atmilkman
06-06-2012, 09:37
Now I guess when someone tells me they hiked through the "Smokies" I'll have to ask do you mean the mountains or the hikers. But that may be pretty easy to tell. I (cough-cough) hiked (cough-cough) through (cough-cough) the (cough-cough) "Smokies" (cough-cough-cough).

sbhikes
06-06-2012, 14:06
OK, 28 posts and only one mentioned what immedietly came to my mind: How do they afford it?
Aren't they like $5 a pack now? Even more in New York I believe.

The other day on the PCT I was hanging out with some guys who smoked and one of them said what he does is buy pipe tobacco. It's not taxed the same as regular tobacco but it's basically the same exact stuff, only coarser. He carried two brands of roll-your-own tobacco (he was out of the pipe stuff at the time). One brand was reported to cost only $2.50 or something like that for the bag. It's a lot cheaper than packs of cigarettes. From what I could tell, these guys basically smoke and drink milkshakes made with tons of instant coffee. I guess that's one way to propel yourself up the trail.

I don't understand why some people in this thread are getting so indignant that we are noticing a huge upsurge in the number of younger smokers out on the trail. Noticing it isn't a value judgment. I've been doing section hikes on the PCT several times a year since 2008 and this year there is exponentially more smoking. Somebody's going to notice.

jelloitsalive
06-06-2012, 23:02
Just because you smoke on the AT does not mean your irresponsible by litering just keep a small soda bottle for the buts.

fiddlehead
06-07-2012, 01:25
If I was a smoker, I'd grown my own. (tobacco)
Many of the Amish farmers not far from my home in PA do it, so, it must be an OK climate for it.
Probably some stupid law against it but I doubt their flying helicopters over looking for it, like they do other stuff.
Maybe mix it in with my rhubarb!

icequeen
06-07-2012, 01:35
I'm guilty of being a smoker, but I NEVER throw my butt down...I always put it in my pocket/trash bag, even when not out in the woods. And I darn sure would never dream of lighting up in front of people! I'm embarrassed by my nasty addiction, so I go as far away from people as I can...or I don't smoke.

As for lots of smokers in Shenandoah/VA....VA seems to be the "tobacco state" (not to mention Phillip Morris is based in Richmond), which equals lower cost and lowest cigarette tax in the country! Cigarettes are still affordable ($3 - $4 tops) here.

rocketsocks
06-07-2012, 01:50
I'm guilty of being a smoker, but I NEVER throw my butt down...I always put it in my pocket/trash bag, even when not out in the woods. And I darn sure would never dream of lighting up in front of people! I'm embarrassed by my nasty addiction, so I go as far away from people as I can...or I don't smoke.

As for lots of smokers in Shenandoah/VA....VA seems to be the "tobacco state" (not to mention Phillip Morris is based in Richmond), which equals lower cost and lowest cigarette tax in the country! Cigarettes are still affordable ($3 - $4 tops) here.Ice Queen,now I'm not saying I never flicked a butt on the ground,I have,But for the last 20 years of my smoking Career they were field striped and also place in my pockets,sometimes the wife would find them in the wash,not good.I to considered myself a courteous smoker in that I never smoked in my house,car,or anywhere that was confined,and with people.I think non-smokers would find that many smokers are in fact embarrassed by there habit,and therefore would try to make an extra effort to do it away from people,I did.I still enjoy the smell of tobacco,and am not offended by people smoking,but don't think they should smoke around others in a confined area.jm2c

The Cleaner
06-07-2012, 08:36
I haven't met too many smokers all I've seen is all their butts all around shelters&campsites......

Jim Adams
06-07-2012, 09:32
I smoked throughout both of my A.T. thru hikes...carried a carton in my pack. NEVER threw butts away, always put them in a trash bag and attempted to never infringe on others space when I smoked but had a weird encounter in the Whites. I had worked for stay @ Galehead Hut and after dinner I walked at least 50 yards away from anybody and lit up. Less than a minute later I heard a female quest on the porch screaming "oh my god, someone is smoking, someone is smoking, whoever is smoking needs to put that out immediately". I yelled over to her (yes I was that far away) that I was sorry and I did not intend to offend her to which she answered "well you are". I hiked about a 1/4 mole down the trail and re-lit my Marlboro and finished. When I got back to the hut she continued to loudly belittle me whether I was in her sight or not.
The next morning I was the last to leave after sweeping the floors and I flew up the mountain passing EVERYBODY as they were stopped on the steep climb trying to catch their breath. I was polite and said hi to them all including the rude woman. When I got to the top of the mountain, I lit up a Marlboro and sat there as everybody else caught me and passed. When the rude woman got to me breathing heavy anf out of breath she looked at me and said "so, you do drugs too?...because that is the only way a smoker could pass us like that." I just looked at her in disbelief and said "no, I just can't have one until I get to the top". She just huffed disgustedly and walked away. This woman simply could not believe that I was in better condition than her just because I had walked there from Georgia.

BTW, I qiut smoking 8 years ago but still feel that if you are that worried about inhaling second hand smoke then stop driving because I have to inhale your fumes.

geek

RED-DOG
06-07-2012, 10:23
I smoked on all my thrus including this year, What i do is i buy Top Rolling Tabocco about five pouches lastes about ten days and i carry the butts with me, so you guys better get used to having smokers on the trails their's alot more of us out their than you realize, so get over it. RED-DOG ( Flip-Flop 96 & GA-ME 06 and again this year ) Happy Hiking:dance

Ender
06-07-2012, 10:55
I'm not a smoker, at all, but the only place I've ever craved and smoked cigarettes is out on the trail. No idea why. And the few (maybe 10 total) I did smoke I made sure to be kind to the other hikers and not be near them when I smoked, and packed out all trash.

Snowleopard
06-07-2012, 11:55
I have asthma and need to avoid smokers. Will it be impossible for me to hike the AT?

Quickly walking past one person smoking will probably not cause an asthma attack.

Doing this twice has a good chance of causing an asthma attack.

Passing 3 people smoking over a couple of hours will cause an asthma attack.

Standing 10' away from a smoker for several minutes (i.e., one cigarette) will cause an asthma attack. 50' away from several smokers for 5 minutes will probably cause an asthma.

Each of the above will cause a mild to moderate asthma attack. My max hiking speed will be cut in half. I might need to stop hiking that day and the distance I can hike will be cut significantly. I will feel pretty sick for about 4 hours. If I run into this every day, I'd leave the trail after 3 or 4 days. Any more exposure than that and I'll be very short of breath, have severe chest pain and won't be able to hike.

The more dangerous situation would be if I'm sleeping in a shelter and a smoker lights up inside. That would make me quite sick. It probably wouldn't require evacuation to an ER, but it might. Clearly I won't stay in shelters.

One smoker at the 50 yards that Jim Adams mentions would usually not cause an asthma attack, but, depending on the wind, might be pretty unpleasant. One smoker at 1/4 miles wouldn't usually be a problem.

So, is it possible to avoid running into half a dozen people a day who are smoking on the trail?

Ender
06-07-2012, 12:10
People typically don't smoke while actually hiking, just in camp. Avoid shelters and you should be fine.

bfayer
06-07-2012, 13:44
I have asthma and need to avoid smokers. Will it be impossible for me to hike the AT?...

So, is it possible to avoid running into half a dozen people a day who are smoking on the trail?

I have never spent a day on the AT in the last several years including winter hikes where I did not run into someone smoking (VA and MD) .

My son has asthma too so its an issue for us also.

If you spend time at shelters you will have to deal with someone smoking, Not that they do it in your face, but it will be near the shelter somewhere.

Just do what we do, enjoy the hike and move on when you can, or ask them to not smoke when you can't.

Andrewsobo
06-07-2012, 14:55
This talk of secondhand smoke is hilarious to me. I'm a bike commuter who doesn't own a car, yet every day I get on the road and am exposed to toxic fumes from those around me, and I have no say in the matter.

Would I prefer it everyone else biked like me so the air smelled better and I didn't have to get choked out every time i got on the road? Certainly.

Am I going to get indignant with drivers because "I don't have a choice to breath, but you have a choice to drive"? Of course not.

bfayer
06-07-2012, 15:11
This talk of secondhand smoke is hilarious to me. I'm a bike commuter who doesn't own a car, yet every day I get on the road and am exposed to toxic fumes from those around me, and I have no say in the matter.

Would I prefer it everyone else biked like me so the air smelled better and I didn't have to get choked out every time i got on the road? Certainly.

Am I going to get indignant with drivers because "I don't have a choice to breath, but you have a choice to drive"? Of course not.

You don't have a kid with athsma do you? Changes your perspective, trust me.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

hikerboy57
06-07-2012, 15:29
As my posts keep disappearing from this thread, I'll be brief. I ask you, what's more open-air than the outdoors? Sure, you might smell my cigar if I'm cooking nearby, but I don't hotbox the shelters. Yeah, I'm a dick 'cause I like to enjoy my tobacco outside. Deal with it, folks

its actually a new religion.they can tolerate campfire smoke, full of carcinogens, they can tolerate car fumes, but they cant tolerate the smell of tobacco, they equate smell with "second hand smoke".

Andrewsobo
06-07-2012, 15:32
You don't have a kid with athsma do you? Changes your perspective, trust me.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Your right, I don't have any kids at all. Or really care about other people's kids more than I would any other human being.

Car exhaust and carbon emissions in general are linked to the rise in cases of asthma per capita, not secondhand smoke. Just trying to point out the hypocrisy of most that are afraid of secondhand smoke. It really just comes down to a control issue, not a health one I'm afraid. Because if you were really concerned about health, you'd stop driving a car or riding a bus or using electricity creating from burning fossil fuels. That's doing the real damage to our lungs, not the occasional wafts of smoke from a cigarette.

Suck it up, I have to eat car exhaust fumes and you haven't heard me whining about it until now.

perrymk
06-07-2012, 16:01
I want a obnoxious cigar smoking wet dog to go hiking with. Then I can tick off two threads at once.:D


EDIT: And I want the dog to pray for the rain to stop. Three threads down.

coach lou
06-07-2012, 16:07
I want a obnoxious cigar smoking wet dog to go hiking with. Then I can tick off two threads at once.:D


EDIT: And I want the dog to pray for the rain to stop. Three threads down.

Hold that cigar with Chop sticks while useing trekking poles and wearing leather boots and you got a half dozen!

Chif
06-07-2012, 16:12
Can I assume that the dog has a gun?

WIAPilot
06-07-2012, 16:27
I have asthma and need to avoid smokers. Will it be impossible for me to hike the AT?

Quickly walking past one person smoking will probably not cause an asthma attack.

Doing this twice has a good chance of causing an asthma attack.

Passing 3 people smoking over a couple of hours will cause an asthma attack.

Standing 10' away from a smoker for several minutes (i.e., one cigarette) will cause an asthma attack. 50' away from several smokers for 5 minutes will probably cause an asthma.

Each of the above will cause a mild to moderate asthma attack. My max hiking speed will be cut in half. I might need to stop hiking that day and the distance I can hike will be cut significantly. I will feel pretty sick for about 4 hours. If I run into this every day, I'd leave the trail after 3 or 4 days. Any more exposure than that and I'll be very short of breath, have severe chest pain and won't be able to hike.

The more dangerous situation would be if I'm sleeping in a shelter and a smoker lights up inside. That would make me quite sick. It probably wouldn't require evacuation to an ER, but it might. Clearly I won't stay in shelters.

One smoker at the 50 yards that Jim Adams mentions would usually not cause an asthma attack, but, depending on the wind, might be pretty unpleasant. One smoker at 1/4 miles wouldn't usually be a problem.

So, is it possible to avoid running into half a dozen people a day who are smoking on the trail?

I really don't like being around smokers either, but hikers who smoke are not going to change nor can you realistically expect them to. Clearly, you are going to need to completely avoid shelters unless you are by yourself. And if someone else joins you, you'll need to find out if they are a smoker. You can pretty much give up on sleeping in a shelter. I would also avoid shelters while you are cooking, as you may need to move on quickly if a group suddenly descends upon the area. I would have a buff handy to cover your nose when you pass other hikers or at least until you see if they are smoking. Obviously have your inhaler handy at all times. Frankly, I would also recommend bringing along an emergency inReach or Spot device in case you need medical care.

pervy_sage
06-07-2012, 16:30
Can I assume that the dog has a gun?

Yes, and he is carrying it in a sequined pink canvas pack with the laptop, guitar, solar charger, hammock, tequila, a few pounds of weed, and a bus ticket to Harpers Ferry.

coach lou
06-07-2012, 16:35
Yes, and he is carrying it in a sequined pink canvas pack with the laptop, guitar, solar charger, hammock, tequila, a few pounds of weed, and a bus ticket to Harpers Ferry.

Drunkin',computer geek, sissy-hippy, yellow blazin' mut!

Snowleopard
06-07-2012, 18:07
WIApilot, bfayer, ender and others on this thread, I really appreciate the advice and even the smokers' perspectives on the amount of smoking on the trail.

Clearly, I will avoid shelters for sleeping and cooking and, if I hang out at one at all, I should be prepared to leave instantly. If I see a smoker approaching I will step away from the trail if possible. A buff or facemask wouldn't help much. Really, avoidance is the only way for me to avoid problems. The Smokies will be a problem; I might have to skip them to avoid the required stays at shelters, or hike the BMT instead of the AT there.

If I ever get to hike the AT in the south, I'd like to do it in winter -- I hate the heat and the air would be polluted less often. I am also affected by other forms of air pollution and avoid them all when I can.

I may carry a spot or other emergency satellite beacon and will carry prednisone. I always have a rescue inhaler on me and take inhaled corticosteroids which limits the severity of attacks (i.e., I won't die).

Wise Old Owl
06-07-2012, 19:34
I want a obnoxious cigar smoking wet dog to go hiking with. Then I can tick off two threads at once.:D


EDIT: And I want the dog to pray for the rain to stop. Three threads down.

16215 too funny

hikehunter
06-07-2012, 23:19
I only smoke in the casino..................with everyone else.

Sarcasm the elf
06-07-2012, 23:43
Can I assume that the dog has a gun?

I assume you mean this little guy?


http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14138&d=1318721108

rocketsocks
06-07-2012, 23:47
I'm liking the pink collar, "Foxy Brown" yeah baby!"

Odd Man Out
06-08-2012, 12:40
Looks like he is on the Master Cleanse diet.

hikingshoes
06-08-2012, 13:20
I don't smoke, but it isn't my place to say who can or who can't. All i know it's bad for you and due to yrs of smoking (when I was a kid) I lost ny dad 3yrs ago to lung cancer and today is his birthday..

Slo-go'en
06-08-2012, 15:16
its actually a new religion.they can tolerate campfire smoke, full of carcinogens, they can tolerate car fumes, but they cant tolerate the smell of tobacco, they equate smell with "second hand smoke".

You beat me to it. I do find it ironic that those who complain about 2nd hand smoke are willing to inhale the smoke from a smoldering camp fire all night with no complaints, which has to be a 1000 times worse. If a wiff of tobacco smoke is enough to send you into an athsma attack, you'd better not go near a camp fire. Tobacco smoke only lasts a few minutes, camp fires go on all night long.

Veetack
06-08-2012, 17:08
I am a smoker, and I smoke on trail. I carried rollups more for space saving than price starting at Springer, but as soon as I hit Helen, I bought packs. My biggest thing is people tossing butts on the ground because they do not biodegrade very fast. I field strip all my cigarettes when I'm done, ensure the cherry is completely out, and pocket the butt. When I arrive at either a trash can or a burning fire pit, I will toss my butts in, they will burn completely, as they are just paper and wood pulp. On smoking at shelter sites, I simply do not smoke inside the shelter. I try my best to remain downwind and considerate of others. Even if it is raining, I will smoke as far away as possible. I rarely smoke while actually hiking, unless I'm on a long flat or downhill. As far as the asthma thing from cigs, I'm calling BS. Simply passing by someone with a cigarette will not trigger an asthma attack. If it genuinely does and your asthma is that bad, the physical exertion required to hike the AT would KILL you, and you've no business outside of an ICU anyway. I honestly do everything I can to be considerate of others concerning my habit, and I've not really run across anyone who has raised an eyebrow at me over it, because I'm the first one to show consideration on their part.

Jim Adams
06-08-2012, 22:04
Your right, I don't have any kids at all. Or really care about other people's kids more than I would any other human being.

Car exhaust and carbon emissions in general are linked to the rise in cases of asthma per capita, not secondhand smoke. Just trying to point out the hypocrisy of most that are afraid of secondhand smoke. It really just comes down to a control issue, not a health one I'm afraid. Because if you were really concerned about health, you'd stop driving a car or riding a bus or using electricity creating from burning fossil fuels. That's doing the real damage to our lungs, not the occasional wafts of smoke from a cigarette.

Suck it up, I have to eat car exhaust fumes and you haven't heard me whining about it until now.


says it all!

geek

Jim Adams
06-08-2012, 22:06
Yes, and he is carrying it in a sequined pink canvas pack with the laptop, guitar, solar charger, hammock, tequila, a few pounds of weed, and a bus ticket to Harpers Ferry.

That's funny!

geek

jacob_springsteen
06-08-2012, 23:37
I had worked for stay @ Galehead Hut and after dinner I walked at least 50 yards away from anybody and lit up. Less than a minute later I heard a female quest on the porch screaming "oh my god, someone is smoking, someone is smoking, whoever is smoking needs to put that out immediately".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaFA-JtH0z8

SassyWindsor
06-09-2012, 04:20
You don't mind if I smoke do ya? :eek:

16234

coach lou
06-09-2012, 08:56
You don't mind if I smoke do ya? :eek:

16234

Did you let him smoke IN the shelter?:p

Lyle
06-09-2012, 09:29
I used to be surprised to find a hiker who still actively smoked. Last few years, not so surprised any more.

Last month, while sectioning in NJ and NY, I stayed several nights with a fairly young guy who smoked quite a bit. He never hid the fact, but always was considerate enough to leave the shelter, even in the middle of the night when he awoke for a smoke break. I was kinda concerned about what he did with all his butts (this is a pet peeve of mine when I see smokers tossing their butts without a second thought). On the last night, I saw him pull out a one liter bottle, virtually full of cigarette butts. He commented that those were all from during this hike. I felt better knowing he was not littering, but felt sorry that he was wasting so much money and health on such a bad habit.

Not sure what all that has to do with anything, I guess It just made it seem less offensive that he seemed to be a "responsible" smoker. By the way, I do enjoy a cigar or pipe occasionally, but never around a camp where others are, unless they also are smoking.

Odd Man Out
06-09-2012, 10:35
As a non-smoker following this thread, I would say I have learned the following:

Some smokers are considerate.
Some smokers are jerks.
Some non-smokers are considerate.
Some non-smokers are jerks.
We have found something other than guns to argue about.

Happy Trails

WingedMonkey
06-09-2012, 10:46
As a former-smoker following this thread, I would say I have learned the following:

Every single hiker that smokes field-dresses his butts and takes them out with them.
Some unknown trail god leaves cigarette butts at every shelter, fire ring outhouse and overlook on the trail.

hikingshoes
06-09-2012, 10:49
I think its just one word RESPECT. I think there more non-smokers than smokers on the trail,but if we all would respect the person next to use it be all good. HYOH

Snowleopard
06-09-2012, 11:55
As far as the asthma thing from cigs, I'm calling BS. Simply passing by someone with a cigarette will not trigger an asthma attack. If it genuinely does and your asthma is that bad, the physical exertion required to hike the AT would KILL you, and you've no business outside of an ICU anyway. I honestly do everything I can to be considerate of others concerning my habit, and I've not really run across anyone who has raised an eyebrow at me over it, because I'm the first one to show consideration on their part.
Quickly passing one person smoking will probably not trigger my asthma. Whether later quickly passing a second or third smoker will trigger my asthma depends on how much recovery time between incidents. Exposure to other respiratory irritants will also increase problems from the next exposure. Certainly on city streets, passing several smokers within an hour has triggered my asthma with varying degrees of severity. I don't see smokers on the trails I usually hike (I rarely see people at all on these trails).

I do appreciate that you are considerate of others and thank you for that.

There are many world class athletes with asthma. When I am not exposed to my asthma triggers I am completely fine. In fact, my lung capacity and oxygen transfer is 120% above normal for my height and my peak flow is off the charts. My age and physical conditioning limit my hiking speeds and distances more than my asthma does.

Wood smoke seems a lot less irritating to my lungs than cigarette smoke even though there is a lot more smoke from a wood fire. Cigarette smoke seems to be a very common trigger for asthmatics, but there may be people who are more sensitive to wood smoke than to tobacco. Wood fires do bother me some and I avoid the smoke when I can.

Tobacco smoke did not cause my asthma. Chemical exposures at work caused it, but those chemical exposures caused me to be especially to all respiratory irritants.

I'd like to thank everyone on this thread because it has given me a better sense of what the problems might be for me. So far, it looks like I can probably hike the trail as long as I avoid the shelters.

Slo-go'en
06-09-2012, 12:35
When I see cig butts on the ground along the trail, at an over look or at a shelter, I know I'm getting close to a road. It's the tourists and to a lesser extent, the weekend warriors, who are responsable for 99.9% of the butts and other trash left on the trail.

perrymk
06-09-2012, 13:22
Wood smoke seems a lot less irritating to my lungs than cigarette...

...but those chemical exposures caused me to be especially to all respiratory irritants.

I am employed as a chemist. I have seen people develop sensitivites to certain chemicals they receive significant exposure to, but not to other just as noxious chemicals that they do not come in as much contact with. I do not know why this happens, but I know that it does happen.

I am allergic to wool. I can tolerate wool in very cold weather, but if it is even a little bit warm wool will often cause me to break out in a rash. This is especially annoying when trying to purchase a nice suit. Fotunately I have found a source of non-polyester-Saturday-Night-Fever-looking nice suits (smile). I don't even bother with trying different types of wool anymore and instead prefer fleece and other synthetics for the wool replacements.

There seems to be no accounting for some allergies.

verasch
06-09-2012, 13:39
Snowleopard,

if you come across a smoker just finishing, you might want to wait two minutes before passing him. In 2007, a group of researchers showed that the mean time it took for a smoker to stop exhaling residual tobacco smoke particles after finishing a cigarette was 58.6 seconds, about 9 subsequent breaths. The researchers concluded that asking smokers to wait two minutes before returning indoors after smoking would eliminate measurable particle dispersal from their breath. (Giovanni Invernizzi et al., Residual Tobacco Smoke Measurement of its Washout Time in the Lung and of its Contribution to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, 16 TOBACCO CONTROL 29, 31 (2007))

Additionally, I'd be weary of lingering around a campfire. The EPA has designated 16 polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) as priority compounds. According to the US Surgeon General's 1989 report (http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/NN/B/B/X/Y/_/nnbbxy.pdf) (PDF), five of these bad rockets are in cigarettes. However, all 16 are found in wood fires (http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/airquality/publications/report5/index.html). You would need to smoke 16,000 to 22,000 cigarettes (I feel like a Total commercial right now) to equal 2 lbs of wood fire. If you truly have asthma as bad as you are describing, I would recommend consulting a pulmanologist prior to your hike.

Snowleopard
06-09-2012, 14:21
perrymk, I was hoping to see you on the trail wearing a 'polyester-Saturday-Night-Fever-looking' suit as you disco down the trail. :)

verasch, "if you come across a smoker just finishing, you might want to wait two minutes before passing him." That is a very interesting study. Thanks. I do see my pulmonologist every 3 to 6 months and we have discussed this. He and my occupational asthma doctor (who is a super doctor) strongly recommend against using even a modern low emission wood stove or a gas kitchen stove. I do avoid wood smoke and most people with asthma should do so.

coach lou
06-09-2012, 16:21
I managed to quit, on the milenium. I am very lucky. I kept thinking about carrying the green Oxygen bottle in my pack, in my fishin' vest, and out on the ice. Even sitting next to my bed;). That visual really helped.

chief
06-09-2012, 19:29
Photo-op outside Duncannon from 2000 hike (don't miss the sign).

www.bayloafer.net/about/

Chaco Taco
06-09-2012, 19:37
HAHA, I smoked a lot of cigarettes in 08. Quit FINALLY in 09 after 20 years of smoking! I do not miss it when hiking anymore. So much easier to breathe.

Mountain Mike
06-09-2012, 21:32
Don't let the AT TRolls find this link. They would get pissed.

Rhythmic
06-09-2012, 22:33
Now I guess when someone tells me they hiked through the "Smokies" I'll have to ask do you mean the mountains or the hikers. But that may be pretty easy to tell. I (cough-cough) hiked (cough-cough) through (cough-cough) the (cough-cough) "Smokies" (cough-cough-cough).


Last year when my cousin and I hiked that section we could always tell when we were nearing the "tourist traps".... Oddly, not so much near Fontana but within a mile (both north and south) of Clingman's and Newfound the trail turns to "snow" as it's littered with cig butt's from all the "minivan naturalist" who litter by day in the national parks and sleep by night at the Gatlinburg Hilton. I smoked for 12 yrs and quit 5 yrs ago, Thank God... but I was never as inconsiderate as some have told tale of here in this thread. Then again, common courtesy is not that common anymore.

stranger
06-10-2012, 00:50
You should all quit before you get sick and die...BUT while you still choose to smoke, a good trick is to carry a small plastic bottle (empty ibuprofen bottle) to place your butts in, it's easy, waterproof, and contains the odor far better than a plastic bag, your fellow hikers will thank you. Also, try knocking the head off the cigarette so just the filter remains, and twist the filter multiple times, it will compress and ake up half the space.

Yes...I'm an ex smoker

rocketsocks
06-10-2012, 01:56
You should all quit before you get sick and die...BUT while you still choose to smoke, a good trick is to carry a small plastic bottle (empty ibuprofen bottle) to place your butts in, it's easy, waterproof, and contains the odor far better than a plastic bag, your fellow hikers will thank you. Also, try knocking the head off the cigarette so just the filter remains, and twist the filter multiple times, it will compress and ake up half the space.

Yes...I'm an ex smokerOr you could take 4-5 used filters,put em in your hand,pour a little alcohol(fuel) over them,close your hand real quick,and shake it around for 7 seconds,then open your hand,and that should remind you of the one comment that didn't make it.;)

Different Socks
06-10-2012, 02:03
People typically don't smoke while actually hiking, just in camp. Avoid shelters and you should be fine.

Again, this person would have to change the way they do things just so they can breath comfortably, but it is okay for the smokers to continue to smoke at the shelters and force the non-smoker to sleep somewhere else b/c they would have an asthma attack. You call that fair?

Sarcasm the elf
06-10-2012, 03:11
Again, this person would have to change the way they do things just so they can breath comfortably, but it is okay for the smokers to continue to smoke at the shelters and force the non-smoker to sleep somewhere else b/c they would have an asthma attack. You call that fair?


Yup, unfortunate situation and I certainly sympothise, but I would remind you that part of the deal that allows everyone the freedom of hiking the A.T. requires that you deal with people who don't necesarily do things that you agree with. There are a number of things that I am not willing to be around when I'm hiking but I am not about to suggest that fellow hikers should have to change based on my needs. The beauty of the trail is that you can always keep walking, and to me that has always felt incredibly fair.

OzJacko
06-10-2012, 06:25
Yup, unfortunate situation and I certainly sympothise, but I would remind you that part of the deal that allows everyone the freedom of hiking the A.T. requires that you deal with people who don't necesarily do things that you agree with. There are a number of things that I am not willing to be around when I'm hiking but I am not about to suggest that fellow hikers should have to change based on my needs. The beauty of the trail is that you can always keep walking, and to me that has always felt incredibly fair.

I don't believe in stopping smokers from having their right to smoke but I must admit to being amazed at the attitude that they can just light up in a shelter.
Once you are in any confined space you must respect the fact that everything, including the air, is shared.
I expect I will spend a lot of time in my tent when the shelter has space but the arrogance that someones right to smoke overrides my right to smokefree air I find appalling.
Smoking at the edge of the shelter on the downwind side I can understand, but lighting up in the middle of a group without the agreement of the group is just massively inconsiderate.
I expect to have to accept more smoking than I am used to on the AT, and do not condemn smokers (both my parents died of smoking caused lung cancer) as I realise it's not easy to give up. I do find it strange the way people can revel in it, especially the cigars.

Lone Wolf
06-10-2012, 06:55
most smokers are rude and inconsiderate

hikerboy57
06-10-2012, 07:00
As are most nonsmokers.

Lone Wolf
06-10-2012, 07:02
not true at all. and you know it

hikerboy57
06-10-2012, 07:10
not true at all. and you know it

Sorry but i disagree lw
I ffind most people have their heads so far up their buts theyre oblivious to those around them particularly younger folk. And although i smoke you would never see it in camp.i

hikerboy57
06-10-2012, 07:27
Imho most older smokers like myself are almost embarrassed by their hanit.i will never light up in front of ssomeone i didnt know.ive quit nimerous times but i keep going back.i do find many young people toxay lack manners smokers and non smokers alike.

stranger
06-10-2012, 08:09
Or you could take 4-5 used filters,put em in your hand,pour a little alcohol(fuel) over them,close your hand real quick,and shake it around for 7 seconds,then open your hand,and that should remind you of the one comment that didn't make it.;)

Not following you mate???

waterboy99
06-10-2012, 08:59
My wife and I get to see a good many hikers each year as we sit on our front porch or work in our yard just across the street from the Methodist church in Damascus. The number of hikers that smoke really does seem to be on the increase. This season in particular, and we also get to see a good many throw the butts onto the ground when they have finished. By far it seems to be the young hikers but not always. We can see the area that the hikers stand in to smoke when they are staying at the place also, lots of young smokers, mostly male. In our observations it does appear that the number of smokers is increasing, strange for a fairly educated group of people. Also, I am not 14, I am 66 and my wife and I have been married almost 40 years now. That is just incase you see my profile that says that I am 14.

Waterboy99

atmilkman
06-10-2012, 09:35
Not following you mate???
I think he's refering to something like huffing glue and hallucinating.

Andrewsobo
06-10-2012, 09:47
most smokers are rude and inconsiderate

most generalizations are a waste of time

Velvet Gooch
06-10-2012, 11:41
You call that fair?

The fair's in the fall

Sarcasm the elf
06-10-2012, 12:05
I don't believe in stopping smokers from having their right to smoke but I must admit to being amazed at the attitude that they can just light up in a shelter.
Once you are in any confined space you must respect the fact that everything, including the air, is shared.
I expect I will spend a lot of time in my tent when the shelter has space but the arrogance that someones right to smoke overrides my right to smokefree air I find appalling.
Smoking at the edge of the shelter on the downwind side I can understand, but lighting up in the middle of a group without the agreement of the group is just massively inconsiderate.
I expect to have to accept more smoking than I am used to on the AT, and do not condemn smokers (both my parents died of smoking caused lung cancer) as I realise it's not easy to give up. I do find it strange the way people can revel in it, especially the cigars.

You seem to misunderstand, I am not arguing that it is acceptable to smoke inside shelters, I dont think that it is. What I'm saying is that all the people on this site need to stop whining about what they do and don't have the "right" to do when on the trail. If you think that everyone on the trail is going to act the way you want them to then you will quickly find yourself very disappointed. You can either get angry about it and waste your whole hike being mad about how other people are acting, or you can accept that its a shared trail and go on having a good time.

We are talking about hiking the A.T., there isn't going to be anyone around to enforce good behavior, if you have a problem with how someone is acting your only options are to deal with it yourself or to keep walking and if you can solve the problem by just walking a little farther, than how big of an issue was it really? One of the things I value the most about hiking is that it allows me to get away from the constant enforcement of arbitrary rules that seems to be the cornerstone of city and suburban life; part of the deal is that I have to share the trail with everyone else who chooses to hike. Not everyone who hikes does so for the same reason and not everyone has the same attitude, and that's what makes it great.

In regards to smoking in shelters there really is no argument. The ATC and other maintaining clubs have a list of guidelines regarding shelter conduct and it is universally unacceptable under these guidelines to smoke in a shelter, in some locations there may very well be local laws that prohibit it, but good luck enforcing this from inside your sleeping bag in the corner of the shelter, as for me, I'm the guy happily asleep in his tent a few hundred yards away.

hikerboy57
06-10-2012, 12:28
Elf that was awesome.im already looking forward to next months smoking thread

verasch
06-10-2012, 13:59
[I]f you have a problem with how someone is acting your only options are to deal with it yourself or to keep walking and if you can solve the problem by just walking a little farther, than how big of an issue was it really?

Or you can just politely ask someone not to smoke around you. Many times I've rolled a cigarette at a shelter in the rain with no intention of smoking there, just to get some cover while I roll one. Sometimes, though fortunately not often, someone throws a hissy fit because they think they know what's coming next - that I'll light up instead of walking off some distance or actually ask if they mind if I smoke in the vicinity. I think being polite in requesting others not to do that around you is key, as is so often lacking in off-trail society. It goes much farther than grunting and huffing about how inconsiderate someone is because they do something you don't like, whether it's smoking, having a dog with you, not parenting your kids the way you would or listening to their headphones to loud.

If someone in any of these circumstances tells you where to go because they have this or that right, chances are you won't see them on any trail in the future. Attitudes end up killing peoples motivations to continue things more than bad habits do.

Sarcasm the elf
06-10-2012, 17:09
Or you can just politely ask someone not to smoke around you. Many times I've rolled a cigarette at a shelter in the rain with no intention of smoking there, just to get some cover while I roll one. Sometimes, though fortunately not often, someone throws a hissy fit because they think they know what's coming next - that I'll light up instead of walking off some distance or actually ask if they mind if I smoke in the vicinity. I think being polite in requesting others not to do that around you is key, as is so often lacking in off-trail society. It goes much farther than grunting and huffing about how inconsiderate someone is because they do something you don't like, whether it's smoking, having a dog with you, not parenting your kids the way you would or listening to their headphones to loud.

If someone in any of these circumstances tells you where to go because they have this or that right, chances are you won't see them on any trail in the future. Attitudes end up killing peoples motivations to continue things more than bad habits do.


If you are acting in a way that forces other hikers to ask you to change your behavior, then you're being rude. Having to ask smoker after smoker to not light up around you gets old fast.

My point is that when I'm hiking I am out there to relax, not to be somebody's nanny. My personal solution is to bring a tent, I enjoy myself, the troglodytes in the shelter get to enjoy themselves, nobody's a buzz kill and everybody's happy. To me that sounds simple enough.

rocketsocks
06-10-2012, 18:26
If you are acting in a way that forces other hikers to ask you to change your behavior, then you're being rude. Having to ask smoker after smoker to not light up around you gets old fast.

My point is that when I'm hiking I am out there to relax, not to be somebody's nanny. My personal solution is to bring a tent, I enjoy myself, the troglodytes in the shelter get to enjoy themselves, nobody's a buzz kill and everybody's happy. To me that sounds simple enough.Troglodyte;a people of Africa.
a small bird,Wren
a cave dweller
of or having anti social behaviors

I had to look that up,knew I had herd this before,but couldn't remember what it was,thanks for the seed and lesson!My mind was fixed on a Tryabite,the little prehistoric hunter of the seas now cast in stones.

Sarcasm the elf
06-10-2012, 18:30
Troglodyte;a people of Africa.
a small bird,Wren
a cave dweller
of or having anti social behaviors

I had to look that up,knew I had herd this before,but couldn't remember what it was,thanks for the seed and lesson!My mind was fixed on a Tryabite,the little prehistoric hunter of the seas now cast in stones.


I was referring to the "cave dweller" definition in order to make a bad pun about the shelters.

I would be very psyched if I came a cross a trilobite on the trail!

Another Kevin
06-10-2012, 21:49
I would be very psyched if I came a cross a trilobite on the trail!

Take a good look at the limestone when you do Blue Mountain/Kittatinny/Delaware Water Gap. It's Ordovician and Silurian, and loaded with fossils. Since trilobites were ubiquitous in those periods, I'd be surprised not to find them. I know I've seen lots of brachiopods, gastropods, tentaculites, crinoids and corals (and yes, some trilobites) in the stone in the Shawangunk ridge, and the Kittatinny ridge is the same rock.

Now, a live trilobite, that would be something. But we were all born hundreds of millions of years after they died out. (They probably killed themselves with cigarette smoking... how's that for coming back to the topic?)

Another Kevin
06-10-2012, 22:05
Sorry to follow up to myself, but I missed enclosing a link to a National Park Service booklet (http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/dewa/dewa_handbook/sec2.htm)that describes quite well where you might find a trilobite near Delaware Water Gap.

verasch
06-10-2012, 23:09
Eh, I read troglodyte and started having dungeons & dragons flashbacks. Trippy.

rocketsocks
06-10-2012, 23:50
Not following you mate???Sorry mate,not directed at you,more in addition too,and it is Acetone,not alcohol,and well the comment that doesn't make it here is the one that gets deleted do to the natture of a not so funny handful of melted filters.

rocketsocks
06-11-2012, 00:05
Take a good look at the limestone when you do Blue Mountain/Kittatinny/Delaware Water Gap. It's Ordovician and Silurian, and loaded with fossils. Since trilobites were ubiquitous in those periods, I'd be surprised not to find them. I know I've seen lots of brachiopods, gastropods, tentaculites, crinoids and corals (and yes, some trilobites) in the stone in the Shawangunk ridge, and the Kittatinny ridge is the same rock.

Now, a live trilobite, that would be something. But we were all born hundreds of millions of years after they died out. (They probably killed themselves with cigarette smoking... how's that for coming back to the topic?)Right you are Kevin,I seem to remember a place called Trilobite Hill or Mountain.:-?and we had to ask permission from an older fella that lived there,sometimes it was yes,and sometimes it was go away.

Pedaling Fool
06-11-2012, 08:18
Nothing could stop him: not the death of his father; not the scolding of doctors; not the high taxes; not the banishment from bars and restaurants; not his girlfriend’s disapproval.Wright even kept smoking as oncologists diagnosed his throat cancer, one Pall Mall after another. He smoked right before and right after each of his 36 radiation treatments.And then surgeons sliced his neck open and cut out his larynx.“There I am in the hospital, looking at myself in the mirror after my surgery and I thought ‘Whoa … What have I done to myself?’ ” said Wright, now 51 years old. “That was it. There was no way I was going to stick a cigarette into that hole in my neck so I could smoke.”Pretty good post for a spammer, still not going to open your link, but I'm impressed :D

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 08:32
I could go on all day about how much i dislie people who preach."

thecyclops
06-11-2012, 10:17
Im a marathoner/runner/vegetarian/healthnut and when someone lights up around it pi$$es me off honestly,or the people standing right outside the door of walmart or a grocery store smoking,Ive ran into a women(barely)walking out of a lowes foods grocery store when I was walking behind her and as soon as she reached the threshold of outside she stopped dead in her tracks to light up,then WHAM,I walked into her.Im not sure if smokers are disgusting or just sad and pathetic.
I wake up everyday and try to do everything I can for my body;ie:run,exercise,eat correctly,stay active,etc and people who smoke do the exact opposite....They wake up everyday and smoke?I dont get it?I feel bad when I miss a day of running or exercise,or if I eat"bad"one day,how the hell does one wake up everyday,knowing that there habit is ruining their quality of life,is gonna take them from their families sooner than they should be taken,takes their money and doesnt even have the added benifit of a"buzz"or anyhting other than yellow teeth,darkened skin and stench? Damn,at least alcoholics and pot heads get something outta their vice.

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 10:47
What did i say about preaching?
I love lobster and red meat too

atmilkman
06-11-2012, 10:57
Break time - smoke em' if ya got em'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzhZOPPodQY

thecyclops
06-11-2012, 11:26
What did i say about preaching?
I love lobster and red meat too

Good for you.I dont care if you eat poison,thats kool....Just dont smoke poison around me to harm my strong,manly,beast like lungs and cardiovascular system.

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 11:27
okay............

SassyWindsor
06-11-2012, 11:39
Hiking and smoking sounds a lot like eating big macs while on a thread-mill.

Camping_Steve
06-11-2012, 11:51
I wish a group of us went out with clipboards and did some polling to see how many hikers take part in different habits. I know many of us are saying that we saw smokers on the trail, but that's also anecdotal. I would be interested hard numbers and statistics on things like this. Perhaps we could organize volunteers who section hike to take polls? A crazy idea, I know, but I think it would be interesting to get a "Snap Shot" of preferences of those on the AT. this n that (http://appalachiantrail.org). And all that.

pervy_sage
06-11-2012, 11:54
I could go on all day about how much i [dislike] people who preach."

But if you don't like what is coming out of someones mouth, from what I've read you can just politely ask them to do it 50 yards from the shelter, or you can walk to the next shelter, or stay in your tent. If you are less than tactful, you can tell them how poisonous it is, or how they are bad parents for doing it around their children, or how disgusting and abhorrent such behavior is and they should be ashamed for just doing it out in the open. It doesn't matter how respectful they are, or even if they ask if it is OK first, or if what they are doing is so brief and insignificant in the grand scheme that it really has no real effect on you. You shouldn't have to suffer or change your behavior for their obnoxious habit. After all, you have a right to hear clean air.

pervy_sage
06-11-2012, 11:58
Im a marathoner/runner/vegetarian/healthnut and when someone lights up around it pi$$es me off honestly,or the people standing right outside the door of walmart or a grocery store smoking,Ive ran into a women(barely)walking out of a lowes foods grocery store when I was walking behind her and as soon as she reached the threshold of outside she stopped dead in her tracks to light up,then WHAM,I walked into her.Im not sure if smokers are disgusting or just sad and pathetic.
I wake up everyday and try to do everything I can for my body;ie:run,exercise,eat correctly,stay active,etc and people who smoke do the exact opposite....They wake up everyday and smoke?I dont get it?I feel bad when I miss a day of running or exercise,or if I eat"bad"one day,how the hell does one wake up everyday,knowing that there habit is ruining their quality of life,is gonna take them from their families sooner than they should be taken,takes their money and doesnt even have the added benifit of a"buzz"or anyhting other than yellow teeth,darkened skin and stench? Damn,at least alcoholics and pot heads get something outta their vice.

Two words: Jim Fixx

bfayer
06-11-2012, 12:00
What did i say about preaching?
I love lobster and red meat too

The difference between a preacher and a smoker is that you can reason with a preacher :D

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

atmilkman
06-11-2012, 12:00
I wish a group of us went out with clipboards and did some polling to see how many hikers take part in different habits. I know many of us are saying that we saw smokers on the trail, but that's also anecdotal. I would be interested hard numbers and statistics on things like this. Perhaps we could organize volunteers who section hike to take polls? A crazy idea, I know, but I think it would be interesting to get a "Snap Shot" of preferences of those on the AT. this n that (http://appalachiantrail.org). And all that.
Give seasparrow a shout, he likes starting polls.

Sarcasm the elf
06-11-2012, 12:03
But if you don't like what is coming out of someones mouth, from what I've read you can just politely ask them to do it 50 yards from the shelter, or you can walk to the next shelter, or stay in your tent. If you are less than tactful, you can tell them how poisonous it is, or how they are bad parents for doing it around their children, or how disgusting and abhorrent such behavior is and they should be ashamed for just doing it out in the open. It doesn't matter how respectful they are, or even if they ask if it is OK first, or if what they are doing is so brief and insignificant in the grand scheme that it really has no real effect on you. You shouldn't have to suffer or change your behavior for their obnoxious habit. After all, you have a right to hear clean air.Is it bad that I understood all of that?

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 12:06
The difference between a preacher and a smoker is that you can reason with a preacher :D

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

yeah sure.

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 12:06
i see how open minded the anti smoking brigade is.

Veetack
06-11-2012, 15:35
This thread honestly makes me want to start just lighting up in the middle of shelters just to piss people off. Much like everything, you guys are bitching about a minority, but grouping all of us that smoke into it. There are many of us that are considerate of other people's opinions when we smoke and do it away from them. Frankly, I'm hiking my hike. If that means I like to get to a good view and enjoy a cigarette or light up at the end of my hike, then sobeit. It's far better than the jackasses that decide they want to smoke a bowl in the shelter common areas.

Rasty
06-11-2012, 15:54
I'm smoking while reading this thread. :)

coach lou
06-11-2012, 16:00
My brother wants to give me a backpack that he got from Marlboro points. It has a pocket for your Oxygen bottle!

MedicineMan03
06-11-2012, 16:06
I actually started smoking on the trail when I thru'd in '03. I never smoked in the shelters, and always made an effort to be courteous to other hikers. I've always been a firm believer in "hike your own hike," as long as you take others into consideration. Everyone has habits that others might not appreciate. If you don't like the snoring, or the way someone keeps talking about themselves and their gear, or even your gear, you are free to move on. The beauty of the trail is you can always "hike-on."

rocketsocks
06-11-2012, 16:20
The smokers that are hikers,are totally amazing.When I was at the pinnacle of my smoking career,there was no way I'd hike to the top of a Mountain,much less make it.I just don't see the fun in that,if your a full time smoker.I enjoy breathing so much more now that I don't smoke,cheers to the smokers,may you find what many have,life after cigarettes.wishing you well,and happy trails.

weary
06-11-2012, 16:29
Ice Queen,now I'm not saying I never flicked a butt on the ground,I have,But for the last 20 years of my smoking Career they were field striped and also place in my pockets,sometimes the wife would find them in the wash,not good.I to considered myself a courteous smoker in that I never smoked in my house,car,or anywhere that was confined,and with people.I think non-smokers would find that many smokers are in fact embarrassed by there habit,and therefore would try to make an extra effort to do it away from people,I did.I still enjoy the smell of tobacco,and am not offended by people smoking,but don't think they should smoke around others in a confined area.jm2c
I'm not offended by smokers. I just think they are both pathetic and dumb. There's some excuse for old people smoking, especially if they started as children.

Young people who start smoking now strike me as mostly stupid. After years of declining tobacco use, I sense it is now increasing. Most seem to be also high school dropouts, which tells us something.

Yeah, I once smoked, but quit 45 years ago. It only took three years. After quitting I didn't mind smoking for a while. Now I can't stand being near the stuff.

bfayer
06-11-2012, 16:33
This thread honestly makes me want to start just lighting up in the middle of shelters just to piss people off. Much like everything, you guys are bitching about a minority, but grouping all of us that smoke into it. There are many of us that are considerate of other people's opinions when we smoke and do it away from them. Frankly, I'm hiking my hike. If that means I like to get to a good view and enjoy a cigarette or light up at the end of my hike, then sobeit. It's far better than the jackasses that decide they want to smoke a bowl in the shelter common areas.

See my post above about reasoning with smokers.

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 16:55
See my post above about reasoning with smokers.
i dunno, it seems like hes being the reasonable one.it doesnt seem you have much of an open mind.anytime anyone says all ......... are blah blah blah is a bit closeminded to promote such indiscriminate discrimination.

swjohnsey
06-11-2012, 17:09
Lung cancer is God's way of sayin' "Don't throw your butts everywhere!"

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 17:36
ya know, its incredible that after 6 pages and 5000+ views, some here just dont get it. the trail is about peaceful coexistence.it doesnt matter whether its smoking drinking drugs politics, religion, LNT, belching farting snoring, rude, noisy cell phones, etc., and if you're not comfortable with someone elses habits, then simply keep walking on. although ill socialize at a shelter, i hardly ever sleep in one. and thats the answer!!
bring a tent/tarp/hammock!
Not rocket science. rudeness is certainly not restricted to smokers, so stop already. i dont hear smokers sounding like evengelists, only non smokers , acting like its the spanish inquisition. smokers are certainly more tolerant of non smokers than vice versa.and that last generalization is no more valid than the 100+ generalizations ive already read here have been.
mutual respect.live and let live. when given a choice of confrontation or walking away, i prefer to walk away.getting off ones high horse and realizing that people, all people are flawed, and that its when we look beyond our differences and work toward a common goal that makes us great.
now what was i saying abot preaching again?

WingedMonkey
06-11-2012, 17:42
i dunno, it seems like hes being the reasonable one.it doesnt seem you have much of an open mind.anytime anyone says all ......... are blah blah blah is a bit closeminded to promote such indiscriminate discrimination.

Would you let me light up a smoke in a car you were trying to sell me?

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 18:02
Would you let me light up a smoke in a car you were trying to sell me?

no, but id join you for a smoke before or after.i would point out that being a smoker, im not concious of the smell, but many non smokers cannot tolerate it.
WM, i believe you know what im saying. maybe im more considerate than others, but i am aware that smoking has a stigma attached to it that approaches religious fervor, and as ive mentioned in a previous post here, im almost embarrassed by my habit. ive quit quaaludes, cocaine, and alcohol, but tobacco has given me the biggest problem. i dont smoke much on the trail usually one or two in the am and one or two more at night and occasionally after a tough climb( if i dont have another tough climb in front of me, and unless im with another pack of smokers, i go off to be by myself. if i am alone at a view point, smoking, and someone comes along, ill put it out and pack out the butt. if you met me on the trail, you wouldnt know i was a smoker unless iwanted youuu to know. now i may be the exception, but i know many smokers that have posted here feel the same way. let me enjoy my bad vices, as long as im not harming you, and ill return the favor. as a matter of fact, ill extend the favor first.

Tuckahoe
06-11-2012, 20:05
Not a smoker myself, but I just honestly do not care if someone around me is smoking. I find the religious zeal of the non-smokers and born again non-smokers more annoying and bothersome.

Sarcasm the elf
06-11-2012, 20:21
This thread honestly makes me want to start just lighting up in the middle of shelters just to piss people off...


Go for it if you want, I'll be in my tent:rolleyes:

Edie
06-11-2012, 20:30
Hike your own hike, and let others do the same. No need to get bent up about it, whether its smoking, drinking or worshiping idols. Its like blowing your horn in a traffic jam.........it doesn't help.

weary
06-11-2012, 21:58
ya know, its incredible that after 6 pages and 5000+ views, some here just dont get it. the trail is about peaceful coexistence.it doesnt matter whether its smoking drinking drugs politics, religion, LNT, belching farting snoring, rude, noisy cell phones, etc., and if you're not comfortable with someone elses habits, then simply keep walking on. although ill socialize at a shelter, i hardly ever sleep in one. and thats the answer!!
bring a tent/tarp/hammock!
Not rocket science. rudeness is certainly not restricted to smokers, so stop already. i dont hear smokers sounding like evengelists, only non smokers , acting like its the spanish inquisition. smokers are certainly more tolerant of non smokers than vice versa.and that last generalization is no more valid than the 100+ generalizations ive already read here have been.
mutual respect.live and let live. when given a choice of confrontation or walking away, i prefer to walk away.getting off ones high horse and realizing that people, all people are flawed, and that its when we look beyond our differences and work toward a common goal that makes us great.
now what was i saying abot preaching again?
A silly post. Yes smoke if your dumb enough to want to -- but don't do it where others are present and will be damaged by your activity. As for LNT. No one has a right to trash trails, shelters, or campsites. Only fools walk away from activities that damage public land or other's health. Responsible people speak up. Spread the word. And be evangelists.

bfayer
06-11-2012, 22:22
A silly post. Yes smoke if your dumb enough to want to -- but don't do it where others are present and will be damaged by your activity. As for LNT. No one has a right to trash trails, shelters, or campsites. Only fools walk away from activities that damage public land or other's health. Responsible people speak up. Spread the word. And be evangelists.

But you don't understand, every hiker that smokes packs out their butts. Its the townies and weekend car campers that hike 10 miles to the top of a mountain and leave their trash at the peak.

How do I know this? Just ask the smokers here, they will tell you :)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 22:30
Should have left the lnt out.but weary my real point is simply that youll meet your fair share of aholes on the treail.some of them smoke,many dont.its a pretty big trail.plenty of room for everyone,no?

hikerboy57
06-11-2012, 22:36
But you don't understand, every hiker that smokes packs out their butts. Its the townies and weekend car campers that hike 10 miles to the top of a mountain and leave their trash at the peak.

How do I know this? Just ask the smokers here, they will tell you :)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2youfs right but its a skewed model.the smokers reaponding here probably are more considerate.do you think the others would join this thread to brag about their rudeness?

Veetack
06-11-2012, 22:46
There are a lot more hikers on the trail than there are on this site. Some don't know anything about the trail, they just started walking, and really had no concern for LNT or anyone else. Hell, I met a guy in GSMNP that didn't even know what a white blaze was, he thought they were mile markers for quite some time. Hikerboy is most likely right. the members of this site are largely trail enthusiasts and as such, we take great care in preserving the thing we love so much and other's experience of it, be them smoker or nonsmoker. A lot of the jerks may have never honestly made even a single mouse click on this forum.

pervy_sage
06-11-2012, 23:00
youfs right but its a skewed model.the smokers reaponding here probably are more considerate.do you think the others would join this thread to brag about their rudeness?


So is the real problem the smoking, or the rude a-holes that show no respect for others? I now suspect the later. Too bad it seems the non-smoking, unsympathetic, single minded, puritanical, cast the first stone evangelists are representing the rude a-holes in this thread. So glad their behavior is having such a positive effect in making more people want to smoke just to piss them off. Bravo.

I'm going out for a cigar.

Tinker
06-12-2012, 00:15
It amazes me how we Americans get smart for a generation, dumb for a generation, smart for a generation, etc. I smoked from age 14 to age 28. I thought I was being "cool" and "adult" and "tough". My dad developed emphesyma in his late 50's (my age now). He died from it at age 75. If you young folks think that 75 is a good age to die, let me tell you that I haven't yet met anyone in a hurry to push up daisies. I didn't get along with my dad until about 5 years before he died. I never got to know him well enough.

Whatever you do, take a moment to think of those around you, and not only try not to offend them, think of what you can do to make them feel more welcome.

There's too much of this "In your face - I'll do whatever I like especially if it ticks you off!" these days. :cool:

It doesn't make you any friends.............:-?

Skyline
06-12-2012, 00:52
I've never understood how LD hikers can make it while smoking. I quit in '96 (3 packs/day) so I could section-hike the AT, and finally finished in '03. Just couldn't make it up those hills with a (heavy at the time) pack while still smoking.

Having said that my former bad habit has decided to bite back. Three weeks ago I was diagnosed with bladder cancer, which two docs (and a WebMD article) say is "probably" because I used to smoke. There is a pathway to recovery, but the cure is pretty bleak even if I do beat it.

Folks, don't smoke. Find a way to quit if you do.

Mags
06-12-2012, 01:25
There is a pathway to recovery, but the cure is pretty bleak even if I do beat it.

Folks, don't smoke. Find a way to quit if you do.

Skyline,

Don't know what to say. Known you for many years in the LD hiking community, and this comes as a bit of a shock.

All I can say is many of us hope for the best in this long journey you are now taking.

OzJacko
06-12-2012, 02:27
Positive mental attitude Skyline. It really is the best aid.

Re the general thrust of this thread.
Some people smoke, generally a bigger percentage don't.
The hiking community is no different.
I will/have encounter/ed smokers and I have no problem with that. Some are considerate some aren't. Usually I am polite, sometimes I haven't been.
On the AT I will be polite (I will be a visitor after all and who am I to try and change the norm) and expect I will spend more nights in my tent than I really want.
I agree from observations here that the trashing of trails is not common by thru hikers but day hikers and people who come across the trail are the usual culprits. Whilst thru hikers that smoke may drop a butt or two, non smoking thru hikers probably have probably got an incident or two they can remember in moments of reflection, when they probably left a bit of trash somewhere. Let he who is without sin ....
Some of our shelters get used by pig hunters and people (usually very young) out for a booze party. The mess left is unfortunately very imagineable.
It's not just the US where the younger generation have a more "in your face" attitude which those of us from older times (when civility was taught with a cane) find offensive.
I just remember learning that etiquette and manners are the lubricant that stop friction between people. I hope to get well "lubricated" with as many other thru hikers as possible, smoking or nonsmoking alike.
Cheers

hikerboy57
06-12-2012, 06:41
It amazes me how we Americans get smart for a generation, dumb for a generation, smart for a generation, etc. I smoked from age 14 to age 28. I thought I was being "cool" and "adult" and "tough". My dad developed emphesyma in his late 50's (my age now). He died from it at age 75. If you young folks think that 75 is a good age to die, let me tell you that I haven't yet met anyone in a hurry to push up daisies. I didn't get along with my dad until about 5 years before he died. I never got to know him well enough.

Whatever you do, take a moment to think of those around you, and not only try not to offend them, think of what you can do to make them feel more welcome.

There's too much of this "In your face - I'll do whatever I like especially if it ticks you off!" these days. :cool:

It doesn't make you any friends.............:-?

i know i know im guilty of still smoking, now going on 40 years. ive quit numerous times, a few for over a year. but like a siren song, one thing or another has led me back to "my old freind."
i really dont smoke much on the trail, dont have the desire while im hiking, but when im resting, i do enjoy that smoke.
i wont defend it, and i certainly dont condone it. im amazed that young people can even afford to begin a habit they know full well can kill them. when i started just about 40 years ago, a pack cost 75 cents. in NYC today theyre upwards of $15!
i hope this thread gets read by the people who need to hear it the most.
be considerate of others. if you smoke, do it well away from nonsmokers, and assume if they arent smoking that they are indeed a non smoker, make sure your careful about extinguishing your butts, and pack them out.
if you dont smoke and come to a shelter where someone has lit up . politely ask them if they would kindly smoke away from the shelter. ill bet most will comply. and if not , then camp i little farther up the trail.ahoes will be aholes, and we all have to figure out a way to get along.

pervy_sage
06-12-2012, 07:42
Positive mental attitude Skyline. It really is the best aid.

Re the general thrust of this thread.
Some people smoke, generally a bigger percentage don't.
The hiking community is no different.
I will/have encounter/ed smokers and I have no problem with that. Some are considerate some aren't. Usually I am polite, sometimes I haven't been.
On the AT I will be polite (I will be a visitor after all and who am I to try and change the norm) and expect I will spend more nights in my tent than I really want.
I agree from observations here that the trashing of trails is not common by thru hikers but day hikers and people who come across the trail are the usual culprits. Whilst thru hikers that smoke may drop a butt or two, non smoking thru hikers probably have probably got an incident or two they can remember in moments of reflection, when they probably left a bit of trash somewhere. Let he who is without sin ....
Some of our shelters get used by pig hunters and people (usually very young) out for a booze party. The mess left is unfortunately very imagineable.
It's not just the US where the younger generation have a more "in your face" attitude which those of us from older times (when civility was taught with a cane) find offensive.
I just remember learning that etiquette and manners are the lubricant that stop friction between people. I hope to get well "lubricated" with as many other thru hikers as possible, smoking or nonsmoking alike.
Cheers

Well said.

If folks have a problem with courteous smokers, they should have compassion, not distaste or hatred. If one does hate the trend, write a letter to your congress person, or to Phillip Morris, or someone who has some actual control of the situation. Most smokers, especially older ones, don't necessarily have control of their behavior and, as represented in this thread, feel ashamed of it. Try giving them compassion earlier on, rather than waiting till it is too late for them.

Young people are, well, young and are going to do stupid ***** regardless of what we might say. Some will eventually pull their heads out of their butts, so to speak, and we should be there to help them recover, without judgement.

One can easily walk away from the smoke if it is a concern to one's health. They can't. Help them, don't harass and belittle them in a selfish attempt to clear your air. That only serves to make things worse for them, and in the long run for everyone. Non-smokers are supposedly in a better state of mind because they are not the addict. They should act like it and refrain from the negative attitude and prejudice in assuming they know the smokers history and disposition. If you truly want to help, read up on positive cognitive behavioral therapy. Be helpin' not hatin'.

I agree, civility is a lost art, and empathy for our fellow humans has been replaced with the immediacy of blind selfishness.

weary
06-12-2012, 10:56
It amazes me how we Americans get smart for a generation, dumb for a generation, smart for a generation, etc. I smoked from age 14 to age 28. I thought I was being "cool" and "adult" and "tough". My dad developed emphesyma in his late 50's (my age now). He died from it at age 75. If you young folks think that 75 is a good age to die, let me tell you that I haven't yet met anyone in a hurry to push up daisies. I didn't get along with my dad until about 5 years before he died. I never got to know him well enough.

Whatever you do, take a moment to think of those around you, and not only try not to offend them, think of what you can do to make them feel more welcome.

There's too much of this "In your face - I'll do whatever I like especially if it ticks you off!" these days. :cool:

It doesn't make you any friends.............:-?
Occasionally I think I should be ready for death after 83 years. But then I remember all the things I still need to do and just keep plugging away. Though new candidates for "to do" things keep emerging. For instance over the weekend I discovered 200 running feet of land trust bog bridging had all been washed out of place in the recent three back to back six inch rainfalls.

Then there's the Maine governor that last week proposed halting the removal of a dam that has blocked spawning of Atlantic salmon for 200 years on a thousand miles of the Penobscot River system. Luckily the removal began as scheduled yesterday, part of a $60 million project worked on for the past decade It succeeded because state and federal agencies kicked in half the cost. Conservationists and hunting and fishing organizations raised the rest. The beginning of the dam deconstruction was a relief, though it won't be completed until November. Now I can spend my time raising money to buy some high value coastal land that buffers a 300 acre state preserve.

Anyway. I'm glad I quit smoking four decades ago so that I'm still able to do such fun things.

Skyline
06-12-2012, 11:40
Skyline,

Don't know what to say. Known you for many years in the LD hiking community, and this comes as a bit of a shock.

All I can say is many of us hope for the best in this long journey you are now taking.



Thanks Mags.

Since my most recent appointment yesterday, I now believe more than ever I will beat this, because it was "caught" relatively early thanks to a new GP I started going to once I started spending more time in Delaware than Virginia. Thorough annual physicals are key. The next few months won't be a lot of fun, but life goes on afterward. There will be more trails in my future.

I don't want to demonize people who still smoke. It's very, very difficult for many (most) to quit. Nothing good can come from smoking other than some temporary instant gratification. Each person needs to find his/her own path to really quitting for good. For some, it's all the legitimately scary negatives. For others, they need a positive goal to reach that is more attainable in a life after cigarettes. That's how I did it--the AT became an obsession, and cigarettes were the obstacle.

I, too, have seen what I think is a high percentage of smokers on the AT. At least a higher percentage than society-at-large. All ages, both genders. It's so much easier to gain elevation on the Trail, and to live everyday life, with clearer lungs. I hope each and every smoker can find a way to quit. In the meantime, I hope smokers can be ever more considerate of the rest of us--especially young people with still-developing lungs--and not smoke where and how second-hand smoke can harm others.

MuddyWaters
06-12-2012, 18:14
I have witnessed both a parent and a co-worker die from esophageal cancer, which is caused by smoking and drinking. It is not pretty. Usually, by the time it is discovered it is inoperable. Throat tissues are a unique kind of tissue and there isnt much they can do really. Lung cancer is a breeze by comparison.

If you like breathing, and eating past the age of 60, you should consider lifestyle choices carefully when you are young. Seriously. It is ridiculous that so many today dont.

PR Man
06-12-2012, 20:17
I've been section hiking for about 3 years. This year I DEFINITELY noticed a big increase in the number of people (almost all young folks) who were smoking. I really don't get it ! This is definitely not your imagination. Does anyone have a theory on why this is happening?

rocketsocks
06-12-2012, 21:05
I've been section hiking for about 3 years. This year I DEFINITELY noticed a big increase in the number of people (almost all young folks) who were smoking. I really don't get it ! This is definitely not your imagination. Does anyone have a theory on why this is happening?Perhaps the young people feel disenfranchised by 2 wars,9-11,and a floundering economy with no end in site,or watching there parents struggle with bills,losing the home,rising costs of everything.Not that is any different from generations before,it certainly was going on in my generation,and the generation before me.Good question indeed.

Lone Wolf
06-12-2012, 21:23
pretty simple kids. if you smoke, do drugs, drink or have a dog don't go to a shelter and expect to stay. it's rude and selfish

Cookerhiker
06-12-2012, 21:44
I've never understood how LD hikers can make it while smoking. I quit in '96 (3 packs/day) so I could section-hike the AT, and finally finished in '03. Just couldn't make it up those hills with a (heavy at the time) pack while still smoking.

Having said that my former bad habit has decided to bite back. Three weeks ago I was diagnosed with bladder cancer, which two docs (and a WebMD article) say is "probably" because I used to smoke. There is a pathway to recovery, but the cure is pretty bleak even if I do beat it.

Folks, don't smoke. Find a way to quit if you do.

Oh man Skyline, I'm really sorry. I've said a prayer. I hope you can beat it.

Sarcasm the elf
06-12-2012, 22:00
Perhaps the young people feel disenfranchised by 2 wars,9-11,and a floundering economy with no end in site,or watching there parents struggle with bills,losing the home,rising costs of everything.Not that is any different from generations before,it certainly was going on in my generation,and the generation before me.Good question indeed.

Totally agree. Just take a look at the unemployment rates for new high school and college graduates, it shouldn't be a surprise that the added stress is leading to an increase of self destructive behavior.

I also wonder if all the stress and dismal job prospects for new grads is contributing to an increase in kids trying to thru-hike when they can't find a full time job. (Don't know if this is the case, just me thinking out loud)

Sarcasm the elf
06-12-2012, 22:05
Perhaps the young people feel disenfranchised by 2 wars,9-11,and a floundering economy with no end in site,or watching there parents struggle with bills,losing the home,rising costs of everything.Not that is any different from generations before,it certainly was going on in my generation,and the generation before me.Good question indeed.

Finally found the quote I was looking for, here's an explanation of the situation from the great George Carlin.

"One more item about childen, and that is this superstious nonsense that blames tobacco companies for kids who smoke.

Listen, kids don't smoke because a camel in sunglasses tells them to, they smoke for the same reason adults do, because it relieves anxiety and depression. And you'd be anxious and depressed to if you had to put up with these pathetic insecure striving anal yuppie parents who enroll you in college before you're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst. And then they fill you full of Ritalin and drag you all over town in search of meaningless structure. Little league, cub scouts, swimming, soccer, karate, piano, bagpipes, water colors, witchcraft, glass blowing, and ***** practice. They even have play dates for chrissakes. Playing is now done by appointment. ....

Hey, no wonder kids smoke, it helps. . . . You know it's true. Parents are burning these kids out on structure. I think every day all children should have three hours of daydreaming, just daydreaming. You could use a little of it yourself by the way. Just sit at the window and stare at the clouds, it's good for you. If you want to know how you can help your children. LEAVE THEM THE **** ALONE!!!" :eek:

rocketsocks
06-12-2012, 22:12
Carlin was a smart man.good find Elf.
and darn funny too,if it wasn't for him bringing attention to the 7 words you can't say on TV,then we wouldn't have pushed the limits,and would still be saying things like,"oh your such a little stinker" and "you jive turkey" or "back off you sucker,or I'ma mess you up,dig it" but I do like the new saying(to me)"Shut the front door"

Skyline
06-13-2012, 00:10
Oh man Skyline, I'm really sorry. I've said a prayer. I hope you can beat it.

Thanks, Cookerhiker. Unless they find something I don't yet know about I'm confident I can and will beat this.

Ender
06-13-2012, 08:29
Since my most recent appointment yesterday, I now believe more than ever I will beat this, because it was "caught" relatively early thanks to a new GP I started going to once I started spending more time in Delaware than Virginia. Thorough annual physicals are key. The next few months won't be a lot of fun, but life goes on afterward. There will be more trails in my future.

Skyline, so sorry to hear you're having to deal with this, but happy to hear that the prognosis sounds positive. My thoughts are with you, keep fighting the good fight.

Jim Adams
06-13-2012, 08:51
Finally found the quote I was looking for, here's an explanation of the situation from the great George Carlin.

"One more item about childen, and that is this superstious nonsense that blames tobacco companies for kids who smoke.

Listen, kids don't smoke because a camel in sunglasses tells them to, they smoke for the same reason adults do, because it relieves anxiety and depression. And you'd be anxious and depressed to if you had to put up with these pathetic insecure striving anal yuppie parents who enroll you in college before you're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst. And then they fill you full of Ritalin and drag you all over town in search of meaningless structure. Little league, cub scouts, swimming, soccer, karate, piano, bagpipes, water colors, witchcraft, glass blowing, and ***** practice. They even have play dates for chrissakes. Playing is now done by appointment. ....

Hey, no wonder kids smoke, it helps. . . . You know it's true. Parents are burning these kids out on structure. I think every day all children should have three hours of daydreaming, just daydreaming. You could use a little of it yourself by the way. Just sit at the window and stare at the clouds, it's good for you. If you want to know how you can help your children. LEAVE THEM THE **** ALONE!!!" :eek:


YES...imo one of the best entries ever on WB.

geek

atmilkman
06-13-2012, 08:57
Finally found the quote I was looking for, here's an explanation of the situation from the great George Carlin.

"One more item about childen, and that is this superstious nonsense that blames tobacco companies for kids who smoke.

Listen, kids don't smoke because a camel in sunglasses tells them to, they smoke for the same reason adults do, because it relieves anxiety and depression. And you'd be anxious and depressed to if you had to put up with these pathetic insecure striving anal yuppie parents who enroll you in college before you're old enough to know which side of the playpen smells the worst. And then they fill you full of Ritalin and drag you all over town in search of meaningless structure. Little league, cub scouts, swimming, soccer, karate, piano, bagpipes, water colors, witchcraft, glass blowing, and ***** practice. They even have play dates for chrissakes. Playing is now done by appointment. ....

Hey, no wonder kids smoke, it helps. . . . You know it's true. Parents are burning these kids out on structure. I think every day all children should have three hours of daydreaming, just daydreaming. You could use a little of it yourself by the way. Just sit at the window and stare at the clouds, it's good for you. If you want to know how you can help your children. LEAVE THEM THE **** ALONE!!!" :eek:
And Dad (this goes for you too Mom) quit buying them those dang cigarettes.

Pedaling Fool
06-13-2012, 09:03
Yeah, lets blame everything and everyone, except of course the individual :rolleyes:

coach lou
06-13-2012, 12:10
My point exactly!!!!!

pervy_sage
06-13-2012, 14:33
Yeah, lets blame everything and everyone, except of course the individual :rolleyes:

The longer a person smokes, the less I hold them responsible for their addiction. That is why cig companies like getting teens hooked. The judgement centers in the brain aren't fully formed (in males anyway) until at least 24 yrs. By then the addiction has a firm hold and the individual is less likely to easily quit, even if they want too.

I don't hear much about hoards of non-smokers starting in their thirties, do you?

You want kids, who are just beginning to learn responsibility, to be responsible about something that in their mind has no immediate consequence? That is naive, and it is why parents and communities should intervene before they become that maladjusted addicted boozing idiot that you met in the shelter.

hikerboy57
06-13-2012, 14:45
studies show if you can keep em from smoking until age 21, theyll stay smoke free.

pervy_sage
06-13-2012, 15:00
studies show if you can keep em from smoking until age 21, theyll stay smoke free.

Exactly. The debate rages on as to how we do that, and much like this thread everyone has the right answer. Spare the rod and spoil the child, unschool, private school, military school, community centric, parent centric, religion, atheism, or my favorite, medicate the crap out of them till they don't know what they want or who they are and then act surprised when they get hooked on heroine.

Until the next gen of parents get their heads screwed on straight, I think we're severely screwed.

hikerboy57
06-13-2012, 15:12
its just communicating with your kids, keeping them engaged. i went through my incidents of alcohol, pot, and tobacco with both of my daughters, we worked through it, talked about why they tried these things, how they felt when they did them, and how they felt afterward and they've both been drug, alcohol and smoke free since.you have to create an environment where they can talk to you without fear.
if theyre afraid to come to you , they just learn all the wrong stuff on the street instead.
talk to your kids.maybe spare the rod, but dont spoil the child