View Full Version : Wildcats, carter, moriah?
jakedatc
06-06-2012, 19:08
looks like 12-13mi from the Pinkham notch trailhead to the Imp shelter. then a peakbag of Moriah then out Stony brook trail?
does this sound overly strenuous for 2 day 1 night? i'd probably be at around 19lb full pack weight
hikerboy57
06-06-2012, 20:32
I did pinkham to carter notch,then out to gorham.up wldcat is tough bit with an early start imp is doable.
why bother with the double back? pinkham to gorham is certainly possible in 2 days. or if you want to shorten it slightly or just dont want to hike the AT all the way to rattle river for some reason just stick on the carter-moriah down to gorham. anytime ive even considered doubling back on any trails in the whites i unfailingly change my mind mid hike.
jakedatc
06-06-2012, 23:24
That sounds like a good idea. another friend suggested we do 19 brook trail in, drop packs at Carter notch and run up Wildcat A and D to save us from the Wildcat E pain.
That sounds like a good idea. another friend suggested we do 19 brook trail in, drop packs at Carter notch and run up Wildcat A and D to save us from the Wildcat E pain.
again, doubling back. and the climb into and out of carter notch on wildcat isnt exactly easy. just start at pinkham.
nitewalker
06-07-2012, 07:44
i have not been up there in e-ons. one thing i do remember is the descent off of wildcat down to 16 is a biatch. you will be going up so i assume it will be no easier except on your knees. this will be a great hike for you and is totally doable in the time you have alloted for the trip. descending wilcat down to carter notch hut will be a knee bender for sure but you will have some stunning views to passify the time. i went up the imp trail and did the hike out to 16 in two days. it was a long second day and it ended with the descent to 16, uggh...have a great trip and watch your footing on those downhills....i have some time off in the near future and i may go back and rehike that area but then again maybe not............peace
peakbagger
06-07-2012, 07:46
Many thru hikers hike down to Pinkham and catch a ride to Gorham, then slack the entire stretch from Pinkham to Shelburne. They then hitch back to town. I dont recomend it for "normal" day hikers.
There is option to camp along the way by dropping off the ridge and going down the North Carter trail. There are all sort of campsites and a reliable water source at the Imptrail junction but its a 1000 foot loss of elevation.
nitewalker
06-07-2012, 07:50
park and hike in from the imp trail and finish at pinkham and hitch a ride back to the imp trailhead. or u can park at pinkham and hitch a ride to imp trailhead[maybe 10mi] and hike back to your car at pinkham. there should be no problem geting a ride in that area....
jakedatc
06-07-2012, 10:27
we'll have 2 cars.. so maybe just leave one at pinkham and one at bangor st in gorham and do the full thing with Imp shelter in the middle and call it good.
There is option to camp along the way by dropping off the ridge and going down the North Carter trail. There are all sort of campsites and a reliable water source at the Imptrail junction but its a 1000 foot loss of elevation.
Hi Peakbagger:
I don't mean to derail this thread, but you touch on a subject that interests and concerns me - campsites out on trail, some of which don't appear in the AMC White Mountain maps. I know of course about sites such as Franconia Brook, Dolly Copp and Nauman which appear on the maps. As one new to backpacking, I will want to start out camping at sites like that and build in time to more remote camping. The question I have is what about sites where plenty of fellow tenters might be found on summer weekend nights, but which are not noted on the AMC maps? Is there a reliable guidebook or website for these?
For instance, I'd like to do a Whiteface and Passaconnaway to Tripyramids area two-day hike, so a campsite or tenting area between the two or not too far off would be good to know about, but nothing appears on the AMC maps. Any good place to read up on such camping areas where, preferably for a newbie, other tenters are likely to be found, safety in numbers being desired? I posted a thread about this a few days back, but it may have been missed amid our most recent spam attack - I got no replies.
Tom Murphy
06-07-2012, 16:20
Driver8,
Pristine reliable backcountry sites are rare and valuable. Most of the ones I know of in the Wihites, I found while out hiking the trails.
The saddle at the intersection with the Downes Brook Trail has relatively flat land and a usually reliable water source.
TJM
Tom Murphy
06-07-2012, 16:22
Not sure if there will be any other backpackers there though.
jakedatc
06-07-2012, 16:48
Make sure you go up N. Tripyramid first and down South.. would be unpleasant the other way.
peakbagger
06-07-2012, 16:54
There is no guidebook for unofficial campsites. I keep an eye out for them and when I see one I try to remember the basics about it. Viewsfromthetop.com is usually is a good source by using the search function. Unfortunately if it was written down in a guidebook, many of these sites would get rapidly trashed from overuse. Many folks have a bad understanding of leave no trace.
By the way, the area near the Downes Brook junction does have a lot of open area and a water source. This site and many of the other unoffical sites are used by camp groups on occasion.
You can get a rough idea of where a camping area may be with google earth and a topo map. Bascially look for where the transition from softwood to hardwood occurs on Google earth and then read the topo to pick out likely streams and flat areas. Generally if there are hardwoods, there will be places to camp.
hikerboy57
06-07-2012, 17:50
Hi Peakbagger:
I don't mean to derail this thread, but you touch on a subject that interests and concerns me - campsites out on trail, some of which don't appear in the AMC White Mountain maps. I know of course about sites such as Franconia Brook, Dolly Copp and Nauman which appear on the maps. As one new to backpacking, I will want to start out camping at sites like that and build in time to more remote camping. The question I have is what about sites where plenty of fellow tenters might be found on summer weekend nights, but which are not noted on the AMC maps? Is there a reliable guidebook or website for these?
For instance, I'd like to do a Whiteface and Passaconnaway to Tripyramids area two-day hike, so a campsite or tenting area between the two or not too far off would be good to know about, but nothing appears on the AMC maps. Any good place to read up on such camping areas where, preferably for a newbie, other tenters are likely to be found, safety in numbers being desired? I posted a thread about this a few days back, but it may have been missed amid our most recent spam attack - I got no replies.
keep in mind many of these people dont want to reveal where these sites are, choose to camp away from established sites for a reason. peakbaggers right though google earth can give some idea, generally in evergreen country, the undergrowth is usually to thick, so you're usually better off a little lower down. and even then, it takes some skill and experience to locate a legitimate spot. not a big deal if you're hammocking, but sometimes tricky to find a relatively flat spot big enough for a tent.unless you're experienced with map and compass, you might want to stick to the established sites, and make some mental notes about possible sites for future trips.
jakedatc
06-07-2012, 18:48
Yea, what i told Driver in his other thread is that the White mountains policy on camping is meant to spread people out rather than gather them together. His desire to camp with other random people is not an easy thing or necessarily wanted by those other people. Finding a few people to go with so that he has company is probably a better bet.
Yea, what i told Driver in his other thread is that the White mountains policy on camping is meant to spread people out rather than gather them together. His desire to camp with other random people is not an easy thing or necessarily wanted by those other people. Finding a few people to go with so that he has company is probably a better bet.
No question. And there will be the group trips. Thinking of those times where I go up solo - gotta plan for both. :)
Thanks for all your feedback and guidance. I especially like the Google Earth tip. Gets the mental wheels turning. At the risk of jinxing myself, I have good navigational sense, so finding good spots as per suggested methods - I can see how to do it. Thanks again.
Given you are new to backpacking, I am thinking that the first day could very well be overy strenuous.
Since you have removed the option of caming off trail, that first day will be Imp Shelter or bust. Even if you were keen on camping off trail, that is not super easy stretch to find suitable newbie campsites.
Just one opinion. Others on this list know that stretch way better than me and none of us know you. Please don't give any one person's opinion to much weight on this-- not that you would.
On the other hand, please do consider this advise:
Take the very short blue blaze loop over the top of Mount Height. Others might consider the view no different than that from Carter Dome, but my memory (perhaps influenced by food or weather) tells me that the the Views from Mount Height are special. Among the best on the Trail.
hikerboy57
06-08-2012, 07:27
Given you are new to backpacking, I am thinking that the first day could very well be overy strenuous.
Since you have removed the option of caming off trail, that first day will be Imp Shelter or bust. Even if you were keen on camping off trail, that is not super easy stretch to find suitable newbie campsites.
Just one opinion. Others on this list know that stretch way better than me and none of us know you. Please don't give any one person's opinion to much weight on this-- not that you would.
On the other hand, please do consider this advise:
Take the very short blue blaze loop over the top of Mount Height. Others might consider the view no different than that from Carter Dome, but my memory (perhaps influenced by food or weather) tells me that the the Views from Mount Height are special. Among the best on the Trail.your memory's good.the stretch from pinkham to gorham is a lot more strenuous than the maps would indicate, up wildcat, down into the notch then right back up again to carter dome. the view from Mt Hight is a bit better than the summit of carter dome, although there are some spectacular views of madison and mt wash on the way up the dome from the notch. there are plenty of camping spots if you drop down east off the dome, just make sure you're familiar with restrictions. the carters themselves have quite a few puds. I did it in two days, overnighted at carter notch hut, and i remember the 2nd day was quite long.
your memory's good.the stretch from pinkham to gorham is a lot more strenuous than the maps would indicate, up wildcat, down into the notch then right back up again to carter dome. the view from Mt Hight is a bit better than the summit of carter dome, although there are some spectacular views of madison and mt wash on the way up the dome from the notch. there are plenty of camping spots if you drop down east off the dome, just make sure you're familiar with restrictions. the carters themselves have quite a few puds. I did it in two days, overnighted at carter notch hut, and i remember the 2nd day was quite long.
its hard but definitely doable in 2 days, though i think carter notch is the more sensible stopping point. even though imp is more like halfway by mileage. carter notch breaks up the 2 climbs, and while i dont know the carter-moriah's northern end down into gorham, the rattle river trail out to shelburne is easy. like doesnt even seem like youre in the whites anymore easy. i'd leave super early, carry a good headlamp just in case and try my darndest to be off north carter before full dark as thats a nasty little climb down.
peakbagger
06-08-2012, 08:46
The drop down off North Carter is quite nasty, lots of buttsliding down rock ledges or some creative footwork to stay vertical. The sides of the trail are eroded out from people trying to walk along the edges of the rocks. The trail faces north so it doesnt dry out quickly making it slippery rocks. Great introduction for northbounders to what to expect in the Mahoosucs and Maine but some folks really get slowed down by this stretch
Given you are new to backpacking, I am thinking that the first day could very well be overy strenuous.
Thanks for your advice, Rick. I'm the newbie to backpacking - I think Jake, who is planning a Carter-Wildcat hike, is more experienced. I'm not yet planning to take on so strenuous an affair - my next venture up that way I hope to get up and down the west side of Mt. Washington - up Jewell and down Ammo, and, if the legs are feeling frisky on descent, to go up and down Mt. Monroe along the way. Pack will be as light as possible for the day, and may car camp that night and do a waterfalls hike or two the next day. Can you tell I'm itching to get up there?
jakedatc
06-08-2012, 10:26
Yep, Rick you are getting us confused. For a bit of my resume i did 40mi of CT section from Jug end to Cornwall bridge in 3 days. last year i did 11mi Tripyramid loop in 5 hr, i did Moosilauke up and down Beaver brook. i did the Pemi loop in 96 so i'm not a stranger in the whites. i am a road cyclist and rock climber. my pack this weekend will be 17lb
jakedatc
06-10-2012, 22:32
Made it :)
Did the Ellis river crossing at 6:45.. made it to Wildcat D by 9. Wildcat A at 10 and met my friends at carter dome around noon. slowed down after that to stay as a group to Imp site by 5pm.
Left at 7:30 this morning.. got to Moriah at 10.. got to Bangor st at 12:30 6 4k's down in the books :)
jakedatc
06-10-2012, 22:57
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/White%20Mountains/IMG_0279.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/White%20Mountains/IMG_0281.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/White%20Mountains/IMG_0291.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/White%20Mountains/IMG_0294-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/White%20Mountains/IMG_0288.jpg
Thanks for sharing your pics, Jake. I'm jealous - was chained to West Hartford this weekend by obligations. Hoping next weekend is as nice as this one, will get up north and maybe camp over for the first time if fortune smiles. Still some snow in the bowl of Tuck's, but not much. Am wondering if it will all be melted a month earlier this year than last. Last year there was still some snow left - the arch - on July 19 when my friends and I hiked the Boott Spur Trail, was visible from Harvard Rock.
PS: Are you bagging all 48? How far along are you? I'm at two and counting. :D
jakedatc
06-11-2012, 09:14
I've done 19
The drop down off North Carter is quite nasty, lots of buttsliding down rock ledges or some creative footwork to stay vertical. The sides of the trail are eroded out from people trying to walk along the edges of the rocks. The trail faces north so it doesnt dry out quickly making it slippery rocks. Great introduction for northbounders to what to expect in the Mahoosucs and Maine but some folks really get slowed down by this stretch
Couldn't agree more. That's where I broke my ankle last fall right after Hurricane Irene.
MamaBear
06-11-2012, 12:23
Gorgeous weather and views! You picked a good weekend. I went back and looked at my photos from my Carters loop last June (6.17.11) and the snow in Tucks looks to be about the same amount.
Gorgeous weather and views! You picked a good weekend. I went back and looked at my photos from my Carters loop last June (6.17.11) and the snow in Tucks looks to be about the same amount.
That would surprise me, that it would only be a week's difference or so, based on how much harder a winter it was last year versus this.
MamaBear
06-11-2012, 17:38
Here's the photo, taken from Mt. Hight and zoomed a bit. It was hazy that day, can't fix that about the photo.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/3/0/0/6/6/img_1789a_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=51765)
MamaBear
06-11-2012, 17:39
Forgot to add, click on the photo and it will take you to a bigger version in the gallery. Better to see the details.
jakedatc
06-11-2012, 17:54
Definitely more than this year.
zoomed and cropped
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/Hiking/tucks.jpg
Definitely more than this year.
Yeah, quite a bit more. One week later last year, plus easily a week's more worth of snow. A month would be pushing it, though. Wouldn't be surprised if it all melts by 7/1 or Independence Day.
Here are two photos I took just above tree line on Boott Spur Trail, above Harvard Rock:
1626616267
MamaBear
06-12-2012, 18:48
Upon closer inspection, both of you are right, there is less snow up there now than last year around the same time. Zoomed and cropped really shows the difference. Shows what kind of winter we had or didn't.
jakedatc
06-12-2012, 19:18
:) we knew you'd see our way eventually haha
hopefully this weekend will be just as nice and i can tick off 4 more peaks.. might do 2 day hikes to do Whiteface/passaconaway and the Hancocks with my dad. cover his bday, fathers day and 4 peaks for me all in one shot
Sounds like a good plan, Jake. Am hoping to get up this weekend, if not, it'll be next. Fingers crossed - this looks like a nice one!
Quick note to Driver8. West side of Washington I usally recommend going up the Ammy & down Jewel. Many broken ankles & legs on Ammy & Jewel is easy down after first part leaving Gulfside. & hats off to Jake, Pinkham to Imp is a long day w/overnight pack. Most people overnight at Carter Hut & Imp & take 3 days. There are also some nice tent spots off the ridge on the East side trails but you need to drop quite a bit. Too bad you are not hiking today, perfect blue sky day up here. Looking at Carter Dome, Wildcat & North Baldface as I type this!
Quick note to Driver8. West side of Washington I usally recommend going up the Ammy & down Jewel. Many broken ankles & legs on Ammy & Jewel is easy down after first part leaving Gulfside. & hats off to Jake, Pinkham to Imp is a long day w/overnight pack. Most people overnight at Carter Hut & Imp & take 3 days. There are also some nice tent spots off the ridge on the East side trails but you need to drop quite a bit. Too bad you are not hiking today, perfect blue sky day up here. Looking at Carter Dome, Wildcat & North Baldface as I type this!
Thanks for the helpful advice, Zigzag. I went up and down Ammo on 5/12 with quite a lot of snow on the upper 0.8 mile or so with no problem. Carefully, mind you, but unscathed. I dropped pack at the hut due to high winds and leg fatigue, puttered about on the Crawford Path taking a few pics, and ascended no further.
I plan the route as stated b/c my chief limitation will be leg stamina on ascent after that steep third mile of the Ammo Trail - I'm pretty solid over good distances at 20% or less, but above 30 uses different muscles and incites fatigue more quickly for me. Jewell pops along steadily, seldom varying much from its average 16% grade. I'm confident, having climbed the Old Bridle Path up Lafayette a couple weeks ago on a there-and-back, that I can make it up Jewell, which climbs an additional 500 feet or so in an extra mile vs. OBP.
On descent, for variety, I want to go down Crawford, stop at the hut for a respite, maybe explore around the Lakes and Monroe (provided the legs are willing), then go down the very pretty, and by now somewhat familiar, Ammo Trail. If I'm feeling extra frisky when up high, I might come down via Nelson Crag to Alpine Garden, checking out the flowers, to Tuck's Crossover, etc. We'll see.
jakedatc
06-14-2012, 23:46
Quick note to Driver8. West side of Washington I usally recommend going up the Ammy & down Jewel. Many broken ankles & legs on Ammy & Jewel is easy down after first part leaving Gulfside. & hats off to Jake, Pinkham to Imp is a long day w/overnight pack. Most people overnight at Carter Hut & Imp & take 3 days. There are also some nice tent spots off the ridge on the East side trails but you need to drop quite a bit. Too bad you are not hiking today, perfect blue sky day up here. Looking at Carter Dome, Wildcat & North Baldface as I type this!
Thanks, It was a great trip and i'm glad i did the whole ridge. we had blue skies both days also. I started at 6:45 and was in camp by 5 so if the situation was different i could have done more. I was at Carter lake by noon
16-17lb pack helps a lot and a decent level of conditioning did the rest.
Northern Harrier
06-15-2012, 19:43
13.1 miles to Imp; 2.1 miles to Moriah, 1.4 back to Stony Brook Trail and 3.6 out to Route 16. Hope you have nice weather on the first day - views of the Pressies are spectacular from the Wildcats and Carters.
Northern Harrier
06-16-2012, 13:14
Incredibly, my son today just asked me about that route! - but suggested going off of Mt Moriah directly to Gorham on the Carter- Moriah Trail. Makes sense if you are meeting someone to have them wait for you in Gorham instead of a lonely trailhead!
hikerboy57
06-16-2012, 13:35
Incredibly, my son today just asked me about that route! - but suggested going off of Mt Moriah directly to Gorham on the Carter- Moriah Trail. Makes sense if you are meeting someone to have them wait for you in Gorham instead of a lonely trailhead!thats exactly how i did it, and makes 2 days very doable.
jakedatc
06-17-2012, 20:00
Yea, the group i met up with had multiple cars so they left one at the Bangor st trailhead and then drove down to 19 brook trail. met met on top of Carter dome then we did the rest together.
this weekend went well. good fathers day and his 60th bday "party" Whiteface/passaconaway loop up blueberry ledge tr. down Walden/wonalancet tr. 10-12mi, sunday did S.hancock and N. Hancock.
On our way out saturday we met a guy at like 2:30pm just starting up the wonalancet/walden trail looking for whiteface.. we told him he was on the wrong trail but he could maybe do a quick out and back up Passaconaway.. didn't see him come back to the parking lot.. hopefully he found his way down at some point cuz it would have been a bit uncomfortable to hunker down with no bivy gear last night.
Yea, the group i met up with had multiple cars so they left one at the Bangor st trailhead and then drove down to 19 brook trail. met met on top of Carter dome then we did the rest together.
this weekend went well. good fathers day and his 60th bday "party" Whiteface/passaconaway loop up blueberry ledge tr. down Walden/wonalancet tr. 10-12mi, sunday did S.hancock and N. Hancock.
On our way out saturday we met a guy at like 2:30pm just starting up the wonalancet/walden trail looking for whiteface.. we told him he was on the wrong trail but he could maybe do a quick out and back up Passaconaway.. didn't see him come back to the parking lot.. hopefully he found his way down at some point cuz it would have been a bit uncomfortable to hunker down with no bivy gear last night.
Turns out I was able to get up to the Whites this weekend, after all. Got a late start Sat, so parked at Lincoln Woods at 5 and hiked into Franconia Brook to camp. Hiked back out Sun am, got breakfast at Flippin' Jack's Pancake House in Lincoln - yum, then ascended Washington via Jewell, Gulfside and Trinity Heights Connector - the easiest day hike up W, perhaps, but by no means easy. Lots of tricky boulder hopping, as is well known.
Came down via Crawford Path and Ammo, which was much dryer than on 5/12 and the brooks and river were much lower, falls less spectacular. What hadn't changed was how difficult that trail is. At least it was dry, but, exhausted as I was, it required all the concentration I could muster to get down safely. Beautiful trail, but man, is it a difficult one, especially at the end of a long, hard day.
Most miles hiked in a day for me, today, at 12.3, and by a good margin the hardest day of hiking for me to date. It was a red-letter weekend, a lot of good fortune, great weather - almost no wind at the summit at 3:20 when I arrived, and one degree off of the high for the day of 55* F.