View Full Version : Alcohol stove alternative
I was so stoked about my homemade alcohol stove, < $1 and < 1oz, but I talked to a ranger today who said that anything without an on/off is subject to the statewide fire ban. Assuming that the ban isn't lifted before I leave in 2-3 weeks, what's a good alternative? I'm pretty sick of spending money for this trip. I have a Jetboil, but dang is that thing heavy!
Soto 1D 1R-$60 but worth every penny.
Go stoveless. :) See this related thread on the CDT forum for a few ideas:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?85480-Heads-Up-Alcohol-stoves-are-currently-banned-in-CO
i saw some folks on the long trail (southern vermont) with a home made stove - learned from you tube. they used a foster's beer can, etc., too complicated for me. they seemed to have checked the rules, but i am not aware of forest service rules. i have not bought a stove with over 1400 miles, mostly days, section hiking.
Go stoveless. :) See this related thread on the CDT forum for a few ideas:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?85480-Heads-Up-Alcohol-stoves-are-currently-banned-in-CO
Thanks for pointing me to that. Interesting suggestion... seems like there's some comfort in warm food, but to save weight and money and fire risk, might be the way to go. I wonder how chili leathers rehydrate in cold water... might need to do some experimentation...
The Mountain House Mountain Oven might be an alternative if you can get past the weight and garbage issues and you are desperate for hot food and drink. MRE meals come with a simmilar heating packet. I'm fine with cold coffee but not everyone agrees.
Whack-a-mole
06-20-2012, 12:39
I also have a Soto stove and think it's great. It is pricey, but it is light and works super. It's bad that they won't let people use alcohol. When people in charge make rules like this, they are kind of dumbing us down to the lowest common denominator and I think that's pretty weak.
heavyfoot
06-20-2012, 20:38
I talked to a ranger today who said that anything without an on/off is subject to the statewide fire ban.
So no Esbits?
Wise Old Owl
06-20-2012, 23:31
no Esbits....
cabbagehead
06-26-2012, 23:55
You just need to obtain a small empty cat food can to use this easy method of putting out alcohol stoves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZ8PXzngiw
Indeed, you made the stove now make the "off" switch. Simply a second can of larger diameter. No oxygen means no fire. Bigger can over smaller can and fire "off".
Rocket Jones
06-27-2012, 11:27
And having a snuffer for your alcohol stove will work great, right up until the point where a ranger makes an on-the-spot determination that you're violating the fire ban. You are not going to win an argument with the ranger, his/her interpretation is the only rule that matters.
Worth the fine?
And having a snuffer for your alcohol stove will work great, right up until the point where a ranger makes an on-the-spot determination that you're violating the fire ban. You are not going to win an argument with the ranger, his/her interpretation is the only rule that matters.
Worth the fine?
No its not.
If I was a long hike in Colorado this year, I'd just suck it up and go with a canister stove or a white gas stove if I wanted easier logistics (white gas is found in many places even off the beaten path) That's assuming you want a stove. OTherwise, look into the 'no stove' option.
gram cracker
06-27-2012, 15:30
Part of the stove ban is any stove with an on/off valve also has to be UL approved. So a snuffer wouldn't work.
I suspect a ranger wouldn't be very sympathetic to someone trying to bend the rules.
Here's two reasons why us Coloradoans would appreciate all you nice visitors following the various restrictions:
The fire in Boulder CO that put some of my friends on evac notice. I live only 2 miles (if not less) from the evac zone...
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/206195_10151826918950021_1162224014_n.jpg
And this is small potatoes compared to the fire in Colorado Springs where 30k+ people had to evacuate. I am not exagerating
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikkain/files/2012/06/Colorado-Springs-Fire.jpg
Enjoy your stay in Colorado. Please suck it up, carry a few more measly ounces, comply with the regs and don't burn down my home.
rocketsocks
06-27-2012, 19:07
Here's two reasons why us Coloradoans would appreciate all you nice visitors following the various restrictions:
The fire in Boulder CO that put some of my friends on evac notice. I live only 2 miles (if not less) from the evac zone...
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/206195_10151826918950021_1162224014_n.jpg
And this is small potatoes compared to the fire in Colorado Springs where 30k+ people had to evacuate. I am not exagerating
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikkain/files/2012/06/Colorado-Springs-Fire.jpg
Enjoy your stay in Colorado. Please suck it up, carry a few more measly ounces, comply with the regs and don't burn down my home.No joke this fire is far from contained,thanks for your up dates Mags.I just now heard on the news that the FBI has gotten involved to assess if any criminal activity needs to be addressed.Dam shame ,lots of people looseing homes.
Jim Adams
06-27-2012, 20:59
pocket rocket...3oz....$39...cannister 5.5 oz. no brainer!
geek
WIAPilot
06-27-2012, 23:07
Mags-Praying that you and your home remain safe!!! My sister lives in Broomfield and there is smoke, but it is unlikely they will have to evacuate. Colorado is so gorgeous and it is noted for it's residents being more active in terms of outdoor activities than any other State. Originally they thought it was due to lightning, but time will tell. I'm not real religious, but I sure know how to pray at times and even though I don't know you, I am hoping for the best for you. I am sure that many on WB feel the same.
Nutbrown
06-29-2012, 11:20
Hikers in Colorado really do need to suck it up. The danger is serious. I'd go stoveless. Coffee only stays hot for a few minutes anyway.
While I sympathize with the fire danger being faced, the stipulations of the ban do not make much sense to me.
As a LONG TIME white gas stove user and a current alcohol stove user, my educated opinion is that an alcohol stove, properly used is safer than a white gas stove properly used. With white gas, you frequently have flare-ups even if you are careful, and they have a lot more potential for starting a fire than the small amount of alcohol that may be spilled from a pop can stove. The white gas fire burns much hotter and is much more difficult to be snuffed out. Most folks could snuff out a spilled alcohol fire with their bare hands if necessary, not so for white gas. If care is used, and the stove is set on a non-combustible surface (as should always be done) neither type of stove will start a fire. If set up on a combustible surface (as idiots do) the white gas, by nature of it's much hotter flame, is more likely to ignite the surface.
Possibly canister stoves are the only type that would offer some increased safety from idiots, at least the ones like the pocket rocket that keeps the flame further from combustibles. Even these, however. in taller grass, or tipped over could just as easily start a fire.
The only good solution, as Mags implies, is to go stoveless/fireless. This should be the order in my opinion, and I'm a die-hard coffee drinker.
The only good solution, as Mags implies, is to go stoveless/fireless. This should be the order in my opinion, and I'm a die-hard coffee drinker.
Garlic, a retired firefighter here on WB, seems to think alcohol stoves are more dangerous...but I don't think whitegas is better IF the person is new to stoves. (I remember my own first attempts at using a Whisperlite. The family dog ran off the back patio in fright! :D) I think once a person is used to white gas, they are a little safer. But, that's just an opinion. I will say one of the first wildfires of the season was caused by an alcohol stove (http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_20654312/). I think that is the source of the ban. THere are too many variables with homemade stoves and the officials in charge would rather not take a chance vs commercial stoves. Mind you, I am a long time alcohol stove user as well.
I think the overall thrust we can all agree with is BE SAFE WITH YOUR STOVE !!!!
As a fellow coffee fiend, I will say that Starbucks Via actually is pretty decent with cold water and mixes well. Mix it with snow and it makes an AWESOME backcountry iced coffee (as I did last weekend)
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/484429_10151822654385021_368583762_n.jpg
a alcohol stove thats not wick feed or a open type or jets if tip over there is fire the water you are boiling or your drinking water will put it out fast no need to use you hands or a rag etc.
My guess is that the apparent increased risk of alcohol in Colorado today- that more fires have been started with them compared to white gas - is because there are many more alcohol stoves being used than there are white gas stoves today.
I have never seen a fire started with alcohol that couldn't be put out with fairly simple techniques - not saying it couldn't happen. I have seen several fairly severe fires started with white gas, but these were able to be contained with multiple folks helping in the effort.
Again, no stove is the safest option in the current conditions.
I generally do not like Starbucks in the least, but perhaps the Via would be an alternative in a pince. Isn't Java Juice similar and also would be easily mixed cold?
Best of luck to all those living this nightmare.
My guess is that the apparent increased risk of alcohol in Colorado today- that more fires have been started with them compared to white gas - is because there are many more alcohol stoves being used than there are white gas stoves today.
I honestly don't know. In our online bubble, I think many people use alcohol stoves but not so much outside of the long distance/ultralight backpacking community...at least in the US. That's only a guess.
I think MANY people overall use canister vs white gas to say the least, though. Whitegas is something not as many people use at all vs even a decade ago. I think the only people who use white gas are car campers with Coleman stoves (and even that is being phased out more and more by propane users), winter use, people who would rather not bother with empty canisters and people who just plain would rather use what works and not bother with another stove. No concrete numbers; just a gut feeling.
As for Via, I only buy it because it works and Costco sells in bulk. :) I'm not a huge starbucks fan either FWIW...but it's not bad at all
double d
07-02-2012, 00:48
Great information Mags. I lived in Colorado for many years and I'm now heading off to DIA shortly for a hike on the CT, just gonna use my pocket rocket, is it really that hard to understand that with the fire regulations in place in CO. now, its the smart thing to do.