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View Full Version : Today's modern backpacks--not liking the trend I see



Different Socks
06-19-2012, 23:58
I've been going thru old and current BPer Gear Guides and have noticed that not only have externals pretty much disappeared from the catalogs and shelves, but almost all internals have no pockets, and instead are designed to be a duffel bag on your back. I like to be organized when it comes to the myriad amount of things that are in my pack, so pockets are an advantage for me. One big sack on my back and all I can picture is that I have to go inside the main compartment just to find anything. A pack with at least a pocket on each side would make it so much easier to find things, especially when it ids dark outside.
Are here any good 4-5 day internals with pockets still for sale these days? Or am I gonna have to settle for an older model?

brian039
06-20-2012, 00:05
I did my AT thru-hike with a Granite Gear pack and was a little annoyed about the lack of pockets. I bought a ULA Catalyst for my PCT hike next year and so far really like it. It has side pockets, hip pockets, and a mesh pocket on the back.

Rasty
06-20-2012, 00:13
Kelty and Jansport still have side pockets. The Kelty is a huge 80 liter pack. The Jansport is a 55 liter pack. Outside pockets are disappearing from packs real fast. Cabelas still has external frame packs. Campmor also has external frame packs.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___89792

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___90323

rocketsocks
06-20-2012, 01:46
If I remember right,Colin Fletcher use to call this type of pack "A Bloody Great Sack" ,and preferred this type over others,and used a couple smaller sacks tied to the sides.I to have a cavernous kelty bloody great sack,works for me,but is not my dream pack,or the lightest you'll find,at 4lb. 4oz./4300 ci,it's a little on the what I'd call the heavy side,and when you stand just right you can speak into the opening and say hello,hello hello hello

Double Wide
06-20-2012, 04:15
I have a Jansport Carson external frame pack that I've been using for about a year and I really like it a lot. Yeah, it's heavier than most--just four ounces shy of 5 lbs, but it is *extremely* comfortable at 36 lbs total as long as you don't try to put a *full* water bladder up against your back (there is a little compartment on the backside, between the pack and the frame, and if the bladder is too full, you get no air circulation and your back sweats more than usual). It's got two huge side pockets and two 'water bottle' pockets also on the sides, plus the top compartment that's easy to get to. I know I could get a lighter pack, and just may do so eventually, but so far I have absolutely no complaints with this one. Sometimes a heavier pack (either internal OR external framed) that distributes the load better can be a better option than carrying a 'duffelbag on your back' that's doesn't work for your style of hiking.

I'm probably the only person on WB that prefers an external-frame pack, but it works for me! Also, it's only about $110.

moytoy
06-20-2012, 04:15
The external frame will make a comeback, along with my wingtip dress shoes. I'm holding out!

leaftye
06-20-2012, 06:24
You're looking in the wrong places.

Luxurylite has had an external frame pack for a while
Zpacks has two external frame packs
KIUI has an awesome heavy loader hunting external frame pack
Mystery Ranch has their NICE packs

All the cottage industry pack makers typically make their packs with two side pockets and a big kangaroo pocket. Gossamer Gear, Zpacks and ULA are the big ones.

Granite Gear, REI, Golite and Osprey have light packs with several pockets.

Mchale will make whatever you want. ZimmerBuilt will do custom as well, but he might not be able to go as heavy duty as Mchale.






I have two ultralight packs, and the external pockets are big enough for me to keep almost everything I need for the day in the outside pockets. The only thing I dig into the main compartment for is my filter, and also rain gear if the weather suddenly shifts.

perrymk
06-20-2012, 06:28
I've taken to making my own external frames. I've made one out of aluminum tubing and one out of titanium. Ti is a bear to work with. Right now they are being sized to use alice pack accessories (hip belt, shoulder pads, etc). An alice pack frame weighs in at about 2 pounds. My equivalent sized but adjustable frame so far weighs in at about a pound. It's strong enough for regular backpacking, but I wouldn't recommend paratrooping with it like we did with the alice packs when I was in the army. It's still a work in progress and I have some design ideas bouncing around my head that I'm trying to decide how to best make work (water bottle carrier, umbrella bracket, etc.). I recently purchased a plunge router so I can make a jig to make the tube bending more precise.

Incidentally, I suspect it wouldn't be too much trouble to attach some of the lightweight packs to one of my frames. I believe the ULA and Six Moon Designs packs are all about 12 inches wide. Sew on a few loops to tie (or pin or otherwise attach) to the frame and it's done. I was hoping to try this and even bid on a SMD pack on eBay but lost. If I get one of the ultralight packs cheap enough I'll give it a try. If not I may have to learn to sew.

jburgasser
06-20-2012, 08:24
Kelty Trekker is on my back. It is a 65 liter external pack. Perfect for the A.T. 4 side pockets, a top flap pocket, a pocket on the front of the pack, and the main compartment is separated and each has its own access. It goes for maybe $120-$150. Just google it.

Icky

BobTheBuilder
06-20-2012, 08:55
I might be dead wrong about this, but instead of using pack pockets to organize your stuff, it seems that it makes more sense to have the big single chamber and fill it with stuff organized into individual stuff sacks. The rationale being that the stuff sacks, being inside the pack and not subject to abuse, can be made of much lighter material. Pockets in the pack were usually made of the same heavy material as the pack. It also gives you flexibility in how many stuff sacks and what size fit you best, istead of having to work around pockets that have a fixed size.

It also allows pack manufacturers to advertise lower pack weights, which is the only number some people will use to evaluate them.

I think too much about stuff like this. I think I need to hike more and type less.

jakedatc
06-20-2012, 08:55
my exos 58 has 2 pockets in the lid, 2 "side/front" pockets in the front of the main pack, hydration sleeve (i use it for storing flat things), 2 bottle pockets, 2 hip belt pockets, 1 shoulder strap mini pocket

2lb internal frame light comfortable and plenty of space

turtle fast
06-20-2012, 09:23
Ok I know it has been said before but you get the best of both worlds with a ULA Catalyst.....close to perfect a pack as you can get...better yet if it came with a porter to haul it for you. ;)

Grampie
06-20-2012, 10:12
Kelty Trekker is on my back. It is a 65 liter external pack. Perfect for the A.T. 4 side pockets, a top flap pocket, a pocket on the front of the pack, and the main compartment is separated and each has its own access. It goes for maybe $120-$150. Just google it.

Icky
I have to agree. Did my thru with a kelty and since have looked at a lot of internals and can't find one that I'd trade to.

Odd Man Out
06-20-2012, 10:21
I've taken to making my own external frames. I've made one out of aluminum tubing and one out of titanium. Ti is a bear to work with. Right now they are being sized to use alice pack accessories (hip belt, shoulder pads, etc). An alice pack frame weighs in at about 2 pounds. My equivalent sized but adjustable frame so far weighs in at about a pound....Incidentally, I suspect it wouldn't be too much trouble to attach some of the lightweight packs to one of my frames. I believe the ULA and Six Moon Designs packs are all about 12 inches wide. Sew on a few loops to tie (or pin or otherwise attach) to the frame and it's done. I was hoping to try this and even bid on a SMD pack on eBay but lost. If I get one of the ultralight packs cheap enough I'll give it a try. If not I may have to learn to sew.

Did anyone read Ron Moak's essay (from SMD) on trends in UL Backpacking and the cottage backpacking industries. I found it very interesting.

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/blog/129-ulsor-p1.html

It centers around the current state of the industry and innovation (or lack thereof) that is going on. There is also a nice section on the history of the industry. Anyway, I could see a person like you being one of those innovators. If you can make a lightweight external frame pack that carries well, you could slap on any of several different bags on it. A cuben fiber sack for a light weight minimalist or a heavier bag with lots of pockets for the traditionalists.

It is said that all great ideas go through three phases. It is dismissed as stupid, then hailed as brilliant, then dismissed as obvious. Once it becomes obvious, all other ideas are stupid and we start over. Don't let "conventional wisdom" inhibit a good idea.

flemdawg1
06-20-2012, 10:37
I might be dead wrong about this, but instead of using pack pockets to organize your stuff, it seems that it makes more sense to have the big single chamber and fill it with stuff organized into individual stuff sacks. The rationale being that the stuff sacks, being inside the pack and not subject to abuse, can be made of much lighter material. Pockets in the pack were usually made of the same heavy material as the pack. It also gives you flexibility in how many stuff sacks and what size fit you best, istead of having to work around pockets that have a fixed size.

It also allows pack manufacturers to advertise lower pack weights, which is the only number some people will use to evaluate them.

I think too much about stuff like this. I think I need to hike more and type less.

Yep, pockets=more weight. Get some stuff sacks.
I have Granite gear Nimbus Ozone & it only has 2 water bottle pockets and a main compartment.

I oraganize as follows:
stuff sack: sleeping bag
stuff sack: clothes
The above 2 items go in a trash compactor bag
stuff sack: sleeping pad
Jet boil cook system
tent
food bag (also contains other cooking inplements that wouldn't fit inside jetboil (coffee cup) and smelly toiletries (toothpaste, campsuds))
mesh sack contains (compass, first aid kit, lighter, emergency firestarter, twine, knife, body glide, chap stick, etc)
Gallon ziplock containing: map, guide/companion pages, wallet, keys, cell phone (if not in pants pocket)
WP stuffsack containing: steripen, headlamp, chargers (if needed)
Gallon zip in one side pocket containing TP and hand sanitizer
a 2liter hydration bladder, 32oz gatorade bottle, and a small piece of house wrap ground cloth (good for a clean place to sit, a clean place to crawl into tent (no muddy knees or feet), or protect sleep pad in shelter) go in the outer bottel pockets as well.

jakedatc
06-20-2012, 10:41
Someone does make a very light external frame pack.. it has like carbon or AL arrows shafts for stays and sounded pretty light. there are a few examples on BPL but i can't find them right now

chelko
06-20-2012, 10:54
Hi my name is Kevin and I too was a pocket junkie at one time. I tend to over organize my stuff so pockets were a need not just a desire. Then I saw the light. I have a gregory palisades 80 liter pack and love it. It has a pocket in the hood for rain gear and a large front pocket to hold most of my daily needs. The bonus is that you can access the main pack bag through the back of the front pocket. I organize everything in stuff sacks and if ineed to get to is I just unzip two zippers and there it is. I also love the fact that the water bottle pocket on one side is tilted forward for quick draw on the water bottle.

Slo-go'en
06-20-2012, 11:30
I have to have at least a top pocket. I put stuff I want to get at often in there and it collects odds and ends which have no other good home.

I bought a ULA CDT pack thinking I'd use it as my UL overnight bag. But with no top pocket, I just can't get used to it. I'm back to using a North Face climbers day pack, simplely because it has a top pocket.

perrymk
06-20-2012, 12:10
I bought a ULA CDT pack thinking I'd use it as my UL overnight bag. But with no top pocket, I just can't get used to it.
Would it be possible for you to attach a top pocket yourelf? Or perhaps have someone do it for you?

I guess I'm suggesting the obvious and there may be other reasons why you haven't pursued this. But to continue my thought, purchase whatever size pocket you need and rivet or tack-sewn it to the top. If what you need is a flat pocket for a map or something some fabric adhesive and a piece of fabric might do the trick. Velcro for the opening should glue in easy enough. Sure it will weight a couple ounces but if it makes the pack what you want, it might be worth it for you.

Cookerhiker
06-20-2012, 12:28
I've had Keltys my whole hiking life including my newest Redcloud 90 purchased a few weeks ago. I like pockets and like its predecessors, the new pack has them. I particularly like having deeper mesh pouches on the side for water bottles. The only bummer with this new pack is that the top pouch doesn't come off. Otherwise the pack is better overall including lighter even though the capacity is the same as my 2004 version.

Re external frame packs, I've seen them in Campmor and REI's catalogs, in my local outfitter, on Kelty's website. They're still around.

grayfox
06-20-2012, 12:33
I've been going thru old and current BPer Gear Guides and have noticed that not only have externals pretty much disappeared from the catalogs and shelves, but almost all internals have no pockets, and instead are designed to be a duffel bag on your back. I like to be organized when it comes to the myriad amount of things that are in my pack, so pockets are an advantage for me. One big sack on my back and all I can picture is that I have to go inside the main compartment just to find anything. A pack with at least a pocket on each side would make it so much easier to find things, especially when it ids dark outside.
Are here any good 4-5 day internals with pockets still for sale these days? Or am I gonna have to settle for an older model?

Yeah, I wonder too if much of this new gear is just made to appeal to people who want to look like backpackers and not for people who want to do the AT or other long trails.

Jansport has a retroversion of their D series pack if you like orange--but it is a 'real' pack.

Externals do usually weigh more empty but excel in carrying heavy and bulky loads comfortably. The real question now is: do I need to carry a 'comfortable when heavy pack' when my new gear is so light and compact? Yes, pockets are nice, but my walking style with my lighter pack has change so that I really don't unload most stuff until I make camp, so having one big bag is not as bad as it once might have been. My old Jansport is now my bug out bag and weighs in at about fifty pounds with enough gear and supplies to take care of me in style for about a week and form the basis for an emergency extended stay away from home should the need arise.

My REI Ridgeway is a good compromise as it has an aluminum frame around the perimeter that works very well to transfer weight to my hips without the bulk and weight of a full external frame.

jakedatc
06-20-2012, 13:02
Yeah, I wonder too if much of this new gear is just made to appeal to people who want to look like backpackers and not for people who want to do the AT or other long trails.


more of a "real" backpacker than you'll ever be..
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/247/cache/andrew-skurka-mountain-spring_24777_600x450.jpg

http://www.trailgallery.com/photos/6051/tj6051%5F091807%5F091936%5F262736.jpg

gram cracker
06-20-2012, 13:32
I'm probably the only person on WB that prefers an external-frame pack, but it works for me! Also, it's only about $110.

Make that two. I have a World Famous Everest that was given to me about 12 years ago. I think it's from the early 80's. It is heavy at 4 lb 2 oz. I was given an Osprey Talon 44, but I just don't like the big bag theory. It seems whatever I want next is always on the bottom.

I also have a SVEA 123 stove and wear combat boots.

jburgasser
06-20-2012, 14:49
jakedatc, your post #22 makes you sound like a pompous jerkwad

jakedatc
06-20-2012, 14:58
And saying that modern designed packs are for wannabe backpackers is...... ?


ps those pics are not of me... they are of 2 triple crown ++++ backpackers who do more miles in a year than most of us will do ever.

jburgasser
06-20-2012, 15:13
And saying that modern designed packs are for wannabe backpackers is......

ps those pics are not of me... they are of 2 triple crown ++++ backpackers who do more miles in a year than most of us will do ever.


Well, I should not have posted that #24. White Blaze should not be a place for name calling (my apologies) or bickering with strangers! Man, how weird is that. I don't think greyfox was targeting you or attempting to single you out. But it sounded like you were speaking back directly to him with your post #22. Maybe you know him personally.

But pack weight and internal vs. external and UL vs. traditional always gets so nuts on WB. It's like politics or religion.

Icybod

Feral Bill
06-20-2012, 15:20
If I remember right,Colin Fletcher use to call this type of pack "A Bloody Great Sack" ,and preferred this type over others,and used a couple smaller sacks tied to the sides.I to have a cavernous kelty bloody great sack,works for me,but is not my dream pack,or the lightest you'll find,at 4lb. 4oz./4300 ci,it's a little on the what I'd call the heavy side,and when you stand just right you can speak into the opening and say hello,hello hello hello CF was a fan of pockets. His main compartment was undivided, unlike many at the time. Now you can hardly get the add-on pockets that used to be everywhere.

rocketsocks
06-20-2012, 15:25
CF was a fan of pockets. His main compartment was undivided, unlike many at the time. Now you can hardly get the add-on pockets that used to be everywhere.Now I wonder if some of the cottage companies would take a special order for a light weight Dyneema material pack with pockets and external frame,or if morally,that would be pooh pooed?You could get a 5lb 8 oz trad exter pack,down to 4lb 4oz.

jakedatc
06-20-2012, 15:29
I just feel on this site there is such and animosity towards people who want to hike with lighter, more modern gear. It's like if you aren't carrying 30+ lbs then you can't possibly know what you are doing or are suffering for it. And that you couldn't possibly do a long trail with that type of equipment. cept Lint is going to be a double triple crown with like 6-8lb baseweight. not to mention countless people who are not well known that do it every year.

i do think external packs have a place but it i think they excel at odd shaped or bulky loads. the AMC hut crews use them to haul supplies to the hut and trash out. they also seem really good for bear canisters.

jakedatc
06-20-2012, 15:49
RS here ya go.. though i don't think Ti goat makes it any more.. 40oz Carbon frame, carbon frame sheet, 85L capacity, 60+lbs.

http://cache.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/images/orsm2010-kickoff-21.jpg

this guy made his own fully modular pack. not sure the weight but i'd less in the 1lb range
http://cache.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1298328715_37844.jpg

rocketsocks
06-20-2012, 15:55
RS here ya go.. though i don't think Ti goat makes it any more.. 40oz Carbon frame, carbon frame sheet, 85L capacity, 60+lbs.

http://cache.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/images/orsm2010-kickoff-21.jpg

this guy made his own fully modular pack. not sure the weight but i'd less in the 1lb range
http://cache.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1298328715_37844.jpgI like that little one.I could put it around my ankles and use it to carry my own kindling.

jakedatc
06-20-2012, 15:58
or a pack gerbil to carry your alcohol stove.

hikerboy57
06-20-2012, 16:08
I just feel on this site there is such and animosity towards people who want to hike with lighter, more modern gear. It's like if you aren't carrying 30+ lbs then you can't possibly know what you are doing or are suffering for it. And that you couldn't possibly do a long trail with that type of equipment. cept Lint is going to be a double triple crown with like 6-8lb baseweight. not to mention countless people who are not well known that do it every year.

i do think external packs have a place but it i think they excel at odd shaped or bulky loads. the AMC hut crews use them to haul supplies to the hut and trash out. they also seem really good for bear canisters.
i think its due to a lack of experience, in addtion to most people being resistant to change. i still pack a swiss army knife, although i rarely pull it out, have been using a single edge razor blade, but the knife is still a security blanket, still need to have it.you're right, i met a guy in the pemi a few years ago that was doing the bonds, but from his pack, you'd think he was looking to settle somewhere in alsakan backcountry, external pack, had to weigh upwards of 50lbs. i dont know what he felt he had to have in that pack for a 3 day loop, but i was glad he had an extra 2 liter bottle of water!!
you live, you carry, you learn.

Different Socks
06-20-2012, 18:25
You're looking in the wrong places.

Luxurylite has had an external frame pack for a while
Zpacks has two external frame packs
KIUI has an awesome heavy loader hunting external frame pack
Mystery Ranch has their NICE packs

All the cottage industry pack makers typically make their packs with two side pockets and a big kangaroo pocket. Gossamer Gear, Zpacks and ULA are the big ones.

Granite Gear, REI, Golite and Osprey have light packs with several pockets.

Mchale will make whatever you want. ZimmerBuilt will do custom as well, but he might not be able to go as heavy duty as Mchale.






I have two ultralight packs, and the external pockets are big enough for me to keep almost everything I need for the day in the outside pockets. The only thing I dig into the main compartment for is my filter, and also rain gear if the weather suddenly shifts.

What are your 2 packs?

k2basecamp
06-20-2012, 19:25
Alpenlite.

The cadillac of externals.

I will never ever use an internal. Everything is easily accessible.

Alpenlite let your hips shoulder the load.

leaftye
06-20-2012, 19:45
What are your 2 packs?

ULA Catalyst and Alter Ego Assault X2. Both have side pockets big enough to hold 1.8L Gatorade bottles, plus umbrella, tent stakes and window film groundsheet. Kangaroo pocket holds all food for the day including hand sanitizer, light, gps & maps, and sometimes toiletries.

The only thing I kind of miss is a top pocket, ie, brain. That's only because I wish to run compression straps tightly across the front pocket. Only food would go in the top pocket. Gossamer Gear kind of has the pockets I want, except I'll need them to be roomier on the outside but tight on the inside layer of fabric so I can get great compression while having quick and easy access to my food.

My next pack will almost certainly be custom made to address my specific desires.

MuddyWaters
06-20-2012, 21:45
Pockets are heavy
A single large compartment lets you put everything inside a single plastic liner to keep waterproof.

Whats in my pack:
main compartment- plastic liner, sleeping bag, clothes bag. These things are water proof. Then the food bag and cook kit go in. Food is in waterproof liner, and cook kit doesnt matter.

Thats all in the inside.

outside rear main pocket = shelter, raingear, stakes, groundsheet
outside side pockets - 2x1L water bottles
hip belt pockets - aquamira, first aid, sunscreen/bug dope, handsanitizer/soap, compass/map, headlight, dermasafe knife, etc. Everything in ziplocks so waterproof

nothing else needed, dont need any more pockets.

Different Socks
06-21-2012, 00:46
See my problem with using stuff sacks is that when stopping for the night or packing up in the before dawn light, unless the headlamp is a good illumination, a navy blue sack will look like a black sack. A grey sack will look like a dirty white sack. Why go to all that trouble and time and cost of getting different colored sacks to stay organized when I
can just have a pack with external pockets.

Feral Bill
06-21-2012, 00:50
QUOTE=rocketsocks;1301339]Now I wonder if some of the cottage companies would take a special order for a light weight Dyneema material pack with pockets and external frame,or if morally,that would be pooh pooed?You could get a 5lb 8 oz trad exter pack,down to 4lb 4oz.[/QUOTE] Many old externals were in the 4 lb range. This was before padded hip belts came in, of course.

rocketsocks
06-21-2012, 00:58
QUOTE=rocketsocks;1301339]Now I wonder if some of the cottage companies would take a special order for a light weight Dyneema material pack with pockets and external frame,or if morally,that would be pooh pooed?You could get a 5lb 8 oz trad exter pack,down to 4lb 4oz. Many old externals were in the 4 lb range. This was before padded hip belts came in, of course.[/QUOTE]I no longer have my old externals,they weren't anything great or a name brand I can remember,one was green and had a yellow ecology symbol on the tie-down over flap,the others were kinda non descript,and I have no idea what they weighed,really Bill,I was just trying to be provacitive....a jerk.

perrymk
06-21-2012, 04:40
QUOTE=rocketsocks;1301339]Now I wonder if some of the cottage companies would take a special order for a light weight Dyneema material pack with pockets and external frame,or if morally,that would be pooh pooed?You could get a 5lb 8 oz trad exter pack,down to 4lb 4oz. Many old externals were in the 4 lb range. This was before padded hip belts came in, of course.[/QUOTE]

I have an old Camp Trails Adjustable II with hipbelt and all that weighs 3lbs14oz.

jburgasser
06-21-2012, 08:19
Alpenlite.

The cadillac of externals.

I will never ever use an internal. Everything is easily accessible.

Alpenlite let your hips shoulder the load.


...Which is way better than letting your shoulders hip the load!!:)

Ickybod

TechnoD
06-29-2012, 03:22
I'm new here, planning some stealth camping using tarps. I don't know anyone that's ever used this pack but it's almost too damn big. It's a jansport rockies90 and discontinued I think. It has a internal frame and pockets, hip belt and all that jazz. What's everyone consider a good pack weight for cross country jaunts? I wanna try to stay below 45lbs if I can.
Thanks for suggestions!

Techno

leaftye
06-29-2012, 03:40
No need for a number. Just go as light as you can. Aiming for a number can make you do some dumb things. Your budget may be your only restriction, but you can stretch it further if you shop smart. You might save some money if you can sew.

RockDoc
06-30-2012, 13:24
The pockets disappeared from the pack and reappeared on the hip belt.

Theosus
07-04-2012, 18:24
I like my single big open space inside... I use colored stuff sacks inside to separate stuff. I just write on them with a sharpie. "water stuff" for my filter and hose, "hygiene bag" for poo trowel, paper and a little bottle of hand sanitizer, "bug drugs and ****** ups" for my first aid, pills, bug spray and eye drops... Etc. Everything goes inside. I have a lid pocket where I stick my gorp and gps.
I have a map pocket (unused yet), and side pockets. I'll stick my compass in a side pocket, but otherwise I hardly use them.

attroll
07-05-2012, 02:04
Moved to the "General" forums.