View Full Version : Appalachian Trail History
MedicineMan
12-23-2002, 02:06
Help my out here folks but all of us here are indeed 'into' the trail and I was thinking that one thing I love to read about and hear about is the history of the trail, the Grandma Gatewood stories, the Myron Avery stories, the story of when the park service in GSMNP had to snowmobile out the thru hikers in that freek storm several years ago-I could go on....so maybe a forum on AT history-kind of like our birthdays here at Whiteblaze, where each day something of import would suddenly appear (or get posted or somehow magically presented to us)...day the Trail became National Scenic, day the last section was opened, first shelter built, and on and on and on...
would anybody even be interested? seems like it might get us to research it some
It could also have interesting tidbits given with each historical remark, like highest shelter, lowest point, coldest temp....anyway you get the idea.
SGT Rock
12-23-2002, 11:15
I honestly do not know any important dates, but it sounds like a good idea. If anyone knows some good ones, please feel free to do so. Maybe someone could do some research into it and become the unofficial WhiteBlaze historian.
Seems like on the old TrailPlace there was someone who was a journalist that had done a lot of research about the history along the AT.
Important dates (maybe):
1. Benton McKay's Article published.
2. AT started
3. AT completed (first time)
4. Earl Schaffer's start date and end date.
5. Enactment of the National Scenic Trails Act.
6. Summer solstace (National Nude Hiking Day)
7. Vernal and Atumnal Equinox (start of spring and fall)
More to be named later.
Kerosene
12-23-2002, 15:55
It seems like it could be tough to find 365 dates that pertain to the AT (at least I couldn't think of many). How about developing a database of AT factoids, some of which would be dates, and display one each day, kind of like a "thought a day" calendar?
Here are a few additional ideas that could be used... Most common start and finish dates for thru hikes
Growth in thru hikers by year or decade
Impact of Skyline Drive on the Trail
Shelters built by the CCC
Different types of water sources to be found on or near the Trail
Greatest vertical rise (NOBO and SOBO)
Longest, toughest ascents (calculated as vertical rise times tenths of miles), NOBO and SOBO, by state?
Calories burned per day (weight, mileage, vertical)
etc.
EarlyRiser
12-23-2002, 23:26
just a random question, i dont know if anyone knows the answer or not. but how many white blazes are there on the full length of the trail? obvously it changed not long ago but did anyone ever have a figure? i think thatd be an interesting fact. and if it dosnt exist, well then were just gona have to go count ourselves.
MedicineMan
12-24-2002, 00:03
My girlfriend mentioned to me once in passing that there is so much known about the AT...surely she is right and I think that we have an opportunity here at Whiteblaze.net to create/assemble that huge knowledge consortium of the AT....maybe research assignments to each of us? or maybe we have a member already who is the librarian type? regardless those facts and tidbits are all fascinating to me and I am sure to so many others and I have been thinking about how many white blazes there are and what an assignment that would be to count them all! I think that should be SGTROCK's challenge when he thru hikes.
EarlyRiser
12-24-2002, 00:08
if somone would like to fund my research id be happy to count them!
Hikerhead
12-24-2002, 01:19
White Blazes-rough estimate.
Total miles, 2168 (this number has increased) X 5000 (est number of feet in a mile because I don't know for sure) divided by 250 (guessing the ave lenght in ft between blazes) = 43,360 blazes.
I wonder just how close I am. Hmmmm
I know that someone has counted them. The information has been posted, or published. I just don't remember where I read.
You would think that someone would have more to do than count the number of blazes in route.
SGT Rock
12-24-2002, 10:00
I started copunting them on my last section hike, but kept loosing count, I kept having to run all the way back to Wesser to start over. After about 4 days of going back, I realized I would never make it to springer that way. Sheesh.:(
If you're interested in trail history, a good place to start is with the Special Supplement published by the Trail Conference...its a pretty detailed history of the beginning of the trail and of current managment issues...
It can be found at:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/about/history/trailyears.html
and is in .pdf format...
The ATC also has a condensed version on their web-site...
enjoy.....
The new ATN has a short article about someone that actually did count the white blazes. The total is: 82,366
Hikerhead, your estimate was off by a factor of 2 (that's usually pretty good in my line of work). So the average spacing of blazes is 139 feet or 46 yards or 38 blazes per mile But the double blazes were counted as 2, so that skews the average.
Hikerhead
01-10-2003, 19:36
Thanks DW
Gosh!! I was way off, but only by 40,000 or so :)
I think I'd like to be the first person to thru hike and paint/touch- up every blaze. Now go figure how many gallons of paint I would need.
2 strokes per blaze X 82,366 =164,732 strokes.
How many strokes per gallon--500?
329.464 gallons
Add 10% for leakage/spillage and new blazes=29 gallons
358 Gallons of paint
Man, that's a lot of paint!!!!!!
Now how mush is that going to cost?
$10 a gallon X 358 gallons=$3,580.00 I better call ATC to see if they would fund this historic hike and if they could pay me up front.
358 gallons of paint x 8 lb/gallon =
2,864 lb of paint
You resupply every 5 days over a 6 month trip, so you need to carry 80 lb of paint after each resupply. Have fun, Hikerhead!
Maybe you should buy a gallon of paint and see how many blazes it makes. The 250 blazes per gallon might be off by a factor of 2. :)
Hikerhead
01-10-2003, 23:11
250 blazes per gallon X 135 ft ave between blazes = 33,750 ft of trail per gallon.
33,750 ft / 5000 ft (est) in a mile=approx 6.5 miles per gallon.
13 mile days=2 gallons per day X 8lbs/can=16lbs of paint a day.
If I could get resupplied with paint every day. I think I could do it.
Plus DW, you could help out when I get up your way. :p
Do they use waterbased paint, I hope so it's more tree friendly- if so I could thin that out to about 50/50 mix. That would save me half in paint. Let me go back and refigure this..............
Add in the weight of the cans. Steel, right? Maybe you can get titanium paint cans. And if you stop every 135 ft to paint a blaze, you won't make 13 miles per day. 6.5 would be difficult. So say 1 gallon per day at a 6.5 mile per day pace. But at that pace you won't cross roads as often, so you probably have to carry 2-3 gallons of paint. And now the thru-hike will take you 334 days. OK, how about we work together and each paint every other blaze. Oh, no, I just realized that 82,366 blazes is the number in one direction only. There are probably 82,366 southbound blazes also...
By the way, the paint is glossy latex. Any individual blaze needs to be repainted maybe every 5 years or so. I saw the compass and pack of the guy who paints the yellow AT boundary markers. I'd hate to think what we'd look like after painting 82,366 x2 blazes.
Hikerhead
01-11-2003, 01:10
Wow, you're right! I completely forgot about the blazes on the other side of the tree. That's almost 165,000 blazes. That's really hard to comprehend.
You guys need to get out on the trail. You're starting to hallucinate.:D
my paint cans say 1 gallon covers 400 to 450 square feet.
Now, a blaze is supposed to be 2 inches by 6 inches. that's 12 square inches, or 1/12 of a square foot. So, on that basis, 1 gallon of paint should do 4800 blazes.
But, in the woods, assume 2400 blazes per gallon. That drops the paint needed to 34 gallons.
Hikerhead
01-11-2003, 09:38
Peaks-thanks, that sounds a lot better.
Lugnut-you're absolutely right.
All of the history of this wonderful trail is very interesting. About 3 months ago I found a couple in their 70's that had hiked from Mt. Oglethorpe to North Carolina. Their account of the trouble with keeping the monument in good order on Mt. Oglethorpe was interesting. They said that people used to shoot it and break off pieces any way they could to get souvenirs.
Last month I recieved a good map of the old trail from Mt. Oglethorpe to near Hightower Gap, as well as a copy of the old guide book from the 50's.
My wife and I spent 3 days looking for the old trail. We used Delorme and also knocked on a lot of doors of the older homes in the area. It was a little sad to realize we were on something as wonderful as the A.T. as it used to be. We realized though that it is ever changing like some of the trail relocations we have witnessed and some of the shelter changes.
Good luck and I agree, the history is fun and wonderful!!
MedicineMan
02-04-2003, 01:59
Earplug, that is awesome that you took the time and made the effort to find the old trail...it is haunting to me just to think about hiking any of it! ahh the mystery of the trail, the willow of the wisp, the echoes of so many footsteps.
Simva,
I wrote my senior thesis for school on the early history of the Trail. I don't have it with me right now, but I did tons of research from lots of different sources. I know I've got lots of the important dates in my notes, and I can probably recommend some good books to read about Grandma Gatewood, etc. The finished thesis was 3 chapters, about 70 pages. Chapter 1 was about Benton MacKaye, his boyhood, influences, and the article that got it all started. Chapter 2 was about the period when Arthur Perkins and Myron Avery assumed leadership of the ATC. The third chapter was about the Skyline Drive controversy that pitted the Perkins/Avery school of thought versus MacKaye's. Pretty interesting stuff, and definitely sparked fireworks between MacKaye and Avery. Anyway, I'll see what I can find and post more later.
Yedi :banana
(Sorry, couldn't pass up the banana)
MedicineMan
03-17-2003, 00:31
Yedi/SGT Rock....I wonder if a place here at Whiteblaze.net might be a place for your thesis?
About 1983 or so I remember finding a two book set on the AT at a library. The books (over 1000 pages) included sections on thru hikers from the 1950s through the late 1960s. Anyway, there was a ton of AT history information, anecdotes, photos, etc. I remember how I was impressed with the "trail experiences" described. Wish I could find these books again. No luck up here in Anchorage and I can't seem to get a hit on them in the out of print categories I search. Maybe somebody out there actually has these books and can can comment further.
I know that someone has counted them. The information has been posted, or published. I just don't remember where I read.
You would think that someone would have more to do than count the number of blazes in route.
I found the ATC article about the 2002 hiker who counted blazes:
North's Full of Blazes
A 2002 thru-hiker, Gary Monk, counted the white blazes of the Appalachian Trail as he walked from home in Georgia to Katahdin, counting double blazes as two. The final count from his "five million steps" was 82,366—with 68.7 percent of them along the 53.7 percent of the Trail north of ATC offices in Harpers Ferry, W.Va. (We had a little internal (ATC and A.T. Park Office staffs) how-many-do-you-think trivia contest in June when Monk passed through. Representative Morgan Sommerville came within 2.5 percent of the correct total then, the closest by far.)
September 30, 2002
Appalachian Trail Dates
The ATC calander is a good source of A.T. holidays for instance
June 7, 1958: Southern end of A.T. is moved to Springer Mountain from Mt. Oglethorpe & October 2, 1968 National Trails System Act makes A.T. the first National Scenic Trail, affording protection from incompatible development.
About 1983 or so I remember finding a two book set on the AT at a library. The books (over 1000 pages) included sections on thru hikers from the 1950s through the late 1960s. Anyway, there was a ton of AT history information, anecdotes, photos, etc. I remember how I was impressed with the "trail experiences" described. Wish I could find these books again. No luck up here in Anchorage and I can't seem to get a hit on them in the out of print categories I search. Maybe somebody out there actually has these books and can can comment further.
Hiking The Appalachian Trail
Edited by James R. Hare
Rodale Press, Inc. Emmaus, PA. 18049
This book is out of print but there are used copies on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0875960677/qid=1069758238/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/102-3094415-5325747?v=glance&s=books.
I found this wonderful two volume set (2009 page) at The Mountain Wanderer bookstore in Lincoln New Hampshire a couple years ago. Its great. It is a collection of articles about hiking the trail and includes first person accounts of many trail ledgend. Many of the names are not familar to me but the ones that are include Gene Espy, Dorothy Laker, Grandma Gatewood, Earl Shaffer & Ed Garvey.
max patch
11-25-2003, 08:37
About 1983 or so I remember finding a two book set on the AT at a library. The books (over 1000 pages) included sections on thru hikers from the 1950s through the late 1960s. Anyway, there was a ton of AT history information, anecdotes, photos, etc. I remember how I was impressed with the "trail experiences" described. Wish I could find these books again. No luck up here in Anchorage and I can't seem to get a hit on them in the out of print categories I search. Maybe somebody out there actually has these books and can can comment further.
I bought the 2 volume set when it first came out and later added the very hard to find paperback version (only 200 pages).
The 2 volume set is regularly offered for sale on ebay (search under appalachian trail. There is one there now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3568473391&category=2236
10degrees
11-26-2003, 00:14
Yep, i also have the 2 vol set, as stated by others above. Not for sale!
TJ aka Teej
11-26-2003, 10:33
[QUOTE=Simva the Medicine Man]where each day something of import would suddenly appear (or get posted or somehow magically presented to us)...QUOTE]
August 13th, 1804!
Any one know who did what on that date? :D
Blue Jay
11-26-2003, 11:37
August 13th, 1804!
Any one know who did what on that date? :D
Wingfoot completed his last thruhike??
Rain Man
11-26-2003, 12:00
[QUOTE=Simva the Medicine Man]August 13th, 1804!
Any one know who did what on that date? :D
"On August 13 1804, Charles Turner and his party of surveyors made the first ascent of Katahdin or as he said Catahrdin or Notardin. He probably climbed the SW side."
http://www.summitpost.com/show/mread.pl?f_id=24&t_id=421
AT history is a GREAT topic. I like it!!!
Rain Man
TJ aka Teej
11-27-2003, 08:44
"On August 13 1804, Charles Turner and his party of surveyors made the first ascent of Katahdin or as he said Catahrdin or Notardin. He probably climbed the SW side."
http://www.summitpost.com/show/mread.pl?f_id=24&t_id=421
AT history is a GREAT topic. I like it!!!
Way to go, Rain Man! :banana
(Blue Jay, you're a nut!)
If history is what you want this book has it, Appalachain Trail Names by David Edwin Lillard. Origins of place names along the AT. It was published in 2002. It has 1,100 place names along the AT including information listed in alphabetical order, shelters and when they were built, who built them and what was the shelter named after. Town names and dates. Trail Trivia, such as, Mt. Jackson in N.H. was not named after Andrew Jackson, but named after Charles Thomas Jackson a geologist who studied the White Mountains in 1838.
You can find it on Barnes and Noble's web site.
Jester2000
12-01-2003, 21:04
Whoops! Whoops again!
TJ aka Teej
12-01-2003, 21:19
If history is what you want this book has it, Appalachain Trail Names by David Edwin Lillard.I'll second this recommendation, Dee!
Lost Specticles Gap, Keep Tryst Road, Jobildunk Ravine, even who Mr. Spinger was :O)
warren doyle
12-02-2003, 09:49
"On August 13 1804, Charles Turner and his party of surveyors made the first ascent of Katahdin or as he said Catahrdin or Notardin. He probably climbed the SW side."
http://www.summitpost.com/show/mread.pl?f_id=24&t_id=421
AT history is a GREAT topic. I like it!!!
Rain Man
First ascent? Maybe the first recorded ascent. I'm sure there were some native Americans that summitted as well as some early trappers/hunters that weren't part of the 'schooled' class.
This kind of historical fact is misleading and shows a western European bias.
Rain Man
12-02-2003, 12:25
First ascent? Maybe the first recorded ascent. I'm sure there were some native Americans that summitted as well as some early trappers/hunters that weren't part of the 'schooled' class.
This kind of historical fact is misleading and shows a western European bias.
I agree with WD 100% about the bias. One reason I put the answer in quotes and included the link. European bias is ALMOST as bad as Yankee bias. LOL
Rain Man
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