View Full Version : Most Difficult Stages on the AT
firesign
07-04-2012, 05:40
I have looked at elevations - gain & loss and elevation profiles, however these are only a guide and I am also reading through trail journals.
I am interested in establishing where the most difficult stages are on the AT to assist in planning sensible daily walking distances which are commensurate with the terrain.
I am defining Difficulty as any factor that seriously impeded your normal walking pace (excluding weather), for example: Underfoot, i.e tree roots, rocks or very steep Inclines and Declines.
Stages are being defined as the terrain between two or more AT shelters. This will enable greater accuracy in planning - many thanks
Q. What are the most difficult stages on the AT?
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 05:54
Nh and western maine.steep climbs,notches,tree roots exposure. the hardest part is taking the first step.
by your definition of stage theres a LOT of stages.
kayak karl
07-04-2012, 08:11
by your definition of stage theres a LOT of stages.
a whole lot. add rain or snow and you got the whole AT.
Overall I thought the stretch from Glencliff, NH to Stratton, ME to be the most demanding on a pure day-in day-out grinding hell.
A whole lot of that piece of trail I didn't even really consider hiking. But then I'm a southern Appalachian kinda guy.
fredmugs
07-04-2012, 08:26
Nh and western maine.steep climbs,notches,tree roots exposure. the hardest part is taking the first step.
I agree with this. If you're heading north the point from the start of the White Mtn's until you get past Gulf Hagas in the 100 mile wilderness is way tougher than any other stretch of that length. I just completed my last AT section heading south and the day I went down the Mahoosic Arm and thru the Notch was the hardest physical day of my entire life. My rule of thumb for that area is you'll be lucky to do 75% of your normal daily distance.
coach lou
07-04-2012, 08:27
Overall I thought the stretch from Glencliff, NH to Stratton, ME to be the most demanding on a pure day-in day-out grinding hell.
A whole lot of that piece of trail I didn't even really consider hiking. But then I'm a southern Appalachian kinda guy.
Do you mean that once you are up, you roll along the ridges, and pretty much stay up?
Do you mean that once you are up, you roll along the ridges, and pretty much stay up?
I like dirt on my trails.. :) And a few well placed switchbacks.
coach lou
07-04-2012, 08:30
I agree with this. If you're heading north the point from the start of the White Mtn's until you get past Gulf Hagas in the 100 mile wilderness is way tougher than any other stretch of that length. I just completed my last AT section heading south and the day I went down the Mahoosic Arm and thru the Notch was the hardest physical day of my entire life. My rule of thumb for that area is you'll be lucky to do 75% of your normal daily distance.
HB57..........I'm sooooo pleased to hear this! Ha!.........I better start doing centuries on my road bike!!!
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 08:32
Mahoosuc arm was without a doubt 1 of the scariest descents I've ever done
coach lou
07-04-2012, 08:32
I like dirt on my trails.. :) And a few well placed switchbacks.
I am skeeming the wife for a fall southern road trip!:-?
fredmugs
07-04-2012, 08:37
Mahoosuc arm was without a doubt 1 of the scariest descents I've ever done
In a normal 7 - 10 day section I hike I will typically have one hard fall for the entire trip. I busted my @$$ 6 times going down that sucker (it was wet). My 2nd fall of the day I slid down the rock and stopped when my thigh slammed into the trunk of a tree. I had a bruise larger than my entire hand for about 10 days on my left leg and my right leg was covered in blood from the knee down. Then I had to go thru the notch which was actually kinda fun. GOOD TIMES!
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 08:59
In a normal 7 - 10 day section I hike I will typically have one hard fall for the entire trip. I busted my @$$ 6 times going down that sucker (it was wet). My 2nd fall of the day I slid down the rock and stopped when my thigh slammed into the trunk of a tree. I had a bruise larger than my entire hand for about 10 days on my left leg and my right leg was covered in blood from the knee down. Then I had to go thru the notch which was actually kinda fun. GOOD TIMES!
the arm was scary but i loved every second of it, swinging down ledges hanging on to tiny tree roots, and it was wet for me too!crazy!the notch itself was a lot of fun, met a couple of NOBOs as i ws headed out of the notch and they asked me about the difficulty, i just told them to take their time and theyd be fine. didnt say anything about the arm, however, but i think it has to be better going up the arm than down..
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 09:03
HB57..........I'm sooooo pleased to hear this! Ha!.........I better start doing centuries on my road bike!!!
your in for a treat. the bigelows dont look like any walk in the park either. hoping we can overnight at avery col.
coach lou
07-04-2012, 09:17
your in for a treat. the bigelows dont look like any walk in the park either. hoping we can overnight at avery col.
Does it have a view? ..........Paid more for the view at my time-share!
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 09:22
Does it have a view? ..........Paid more for the view at my time-share!
after that climb i expect all ill see is the back of my eyelids.
yes it has a view.
Kerosene
07-04-2012, 16:51
Of course, the very next section I get to cover starts north from Pinkham Notch. It's hard enough to get into a hiking rhythm as a section hiker, but I have to climb 1500 vertical feet within the first mile or so starting out? Grrrr. Oh well, it's not going anywhere.
It is amazing at how much slower I traverse rocks and roots up north than the nice smooth AT of the southern Appalachians.
MuddyWaters
07-04-2012, 16:56
I think ...that you are wasting your time overthinking this.
The most demanding section of trail is likely easier to well-conditioned hikers with light packs, than moderate trail is to out-of-shape newbs with heavy packs.
Its all relative.
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 17:01
so you're saying new jersey and new hampshire are equally difficult?
Pedaling Fool
07-04-2012, 17:11
so you're saying new jersey and new hampshire are equally difficult?One could hike NJ in such a way to make it more difficult than NH.
MuddyWaters
07-04-2012, 17:11
Im saying conditioned thru hikers NOBO have an easier time with NH than many hikers have with GA.
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 17:14
I agree with that.
One could hike NJ in such a way to make it more difficult than NH.
sure, but if they hiked NH in the same way would it not be more difficult?
hikerboy57
07-04-2012, 19:20
I will say that should they make it so far to new hampshire they will still find it difficult
Pedaling Fool
07-04-2012, 20:25
sure, but if they hiked NH in the same way would it not be more difficult?Geez, must I draw a picture :rolleyes:
rocketsocks
07-04-2012, 20:29
Geez, must I draw a picture :rolleyes:^V^VvvVv^v^vV^w^v
kayak karl
07-04-2012, 20:46
I will say that should they make it so far to new hampshire they will still find it difficult
i found Ga, NC, Tenn, Va much harder then north. NH and Me were moderate i thought. at least when you go up, you GO UP and down, you GO DOWN.
rocketsocks
07-04-2012, 20:50
i found Ga, NC, Tenn, Va much harder then north. NH and Me were moderate i thought. at least when you go up, you GO UP and down, you GO DOWN.That seems to be a common thread amongst hikeres in Maine, when you go down, YOU GO DOWN. ouch!
SassyWindsor
07-04-2012, 21:23
Hikers performing at Damascus Trail Days find that the "stage" can be pretty tough. Also, some judges and critics in the audience can be trouble too.:D
For me, and I've only made it to Davenport Gap, the toughest was Jacob's Ladder. Whoever decided that was a good place for the trail to go can rot in hell. I've heard a lot that GA is the toughest part of the south, but I think whoever originally said that came off the trail at Bly Gap.
The most difficult stage is the last day.
It means the journey is over.
For now....
firesign
07-05-2012, 04:36
I think ...that you are wasting your time overthinking this.
The most demanding section of trail is likely easier to well-conditioned hikers with light packs, than moderate trail is to out-of-shape newbs with heavy packs.
Its all relative.
Ref wasting my time: I couldn't agree more if one is making it up as one goes along and is happy to accept negative daily outcomes that could otherwise have been prevented.
Totally agree ref prior training and avoiding heavy packs.
Ref planning: Let me put it a different way. If there are two back2back stages between shelters/towns, each being 10 miles; one day is a near vertical scramble, and the next day it is as flat as a pool table, then this is valuable information for planning and modifying daily distances. To get it wrong, could have a negative impact, i.e. psychologically draining - promote a greater risk of injury. This is why the military are so interested in the Ground when planning operations.
For me, this type of planning is essential to play the odds in my favour, which promote a greater chance of success in achieving my objective in any long distance thru hike.
Migrating Bird
07-05-2012, 07:27
Over planning for me is a recipe for disappointment and missed opportunities. Perfection is the enemy of good. There are so many variables one encounters on the trail which affects you daily mileage either way. Weather affecting trail conditions being only one of them. When and what you eat and drink will make a huge difference as your energy level ebbs and flows. The condition of your body, particularly your knees,feet and mental state along with your ability to hike through pain will have a impact on daily mileage. Pack weight varies as the amount of food and water needed for that section. Study the elevation profiles and resupply points after a while you will get a feel as to what you can do as well as info from other hikers you meet. There will be days when you feel great and hike to the next shelter or campsite and days when you do half what you expect - the risk is that as time goes by one must be flexible and change your plan. If you fall behind, trying to stick to it will lead to frustration if you cannot make up time.
For me, SW ME and NH were the hardest sections. Moody Mt. due to steep decent SOBO, blowdown and washed out trail, took a long time to get down that little hill, others seemed not to notice. I met two NOBO's coming up over the ledge at the top of Old Speck and one said to me "this isn't hiking it's survival" I laughed because that little section was no different from many of the other little sections I came upon.
I thought that the Mahoosic Arm and Mahoosic Notch (SOBO) were not bad even in the heavy rain and fog but it did take me a full day to go from Speck Pond Shelter to Full Goose Shelter due to a late start. No worse than coming down off of Grant prior to Franconia Notch. The hardest section is the 25 feet in front of you. Have a great hike and enjoy.
Kerosene
07-05-2012, 11:52
The most difficult stage is the last day.
It means the journey is over.
For now....Mags has gotten increasingly philosophical as Boulder has smoothed his Rhode Island rough edges. Is it the great beer, the laid-back vibes, access to the great outdoors, or your soul mate? ;)
wcgornto
07-05-2012, 12:21
Mahoosuc arm was without a doubt 1 of the scariest descents I've ever done
I found the Wildcat descent to be more daunting, challenging and never ending than the Mahoosuc Arm.
hikerboy57
07-05-2012, 12:53
I found the Wildcat descent to be more daunting, challenging and never ending than the Mahoosuc Arm.
i can understand, i did wildcat NOBO, and remember it being pretty darn tough.
i just remember laughing out loud several times in the mahoosucs when i cam across ladders or rungs in places i really didnt need them, after just hanging on for dear life(yes a bit of an exaggeration) coming down the arm and through the notch.
"NOW, theres a ladder?!!" what about 2 miles back?
Mags has gotten increasingly philosophical as Boulder has smoothed his Rhode Island rough edges. Is it the great beer, the laid-back vibes, access to the great outdoors, or your soul mate? ;)
I'd go with the beer. ;)
(The RI rough edges come out when I cooped in too long :O )
brian039
07-05-2012, 12:57
Ref planning: Let me put it a different way. If there are two back2back stages between shelters/towns, each being 10 miles; one day is a near vertical scramble, and the next day it is as flat as a pool table, then this is valuable information for planning and modifying daily distances. To get it wrong, could have a negative impact, i.e. psychologically draining - promote a greater risk of injury. This is why the military are so interested in the Ground when planning operations.
For me, this type of planning is essential to play the odds in my favour, which promote a greater chance of success in achieving my objective in any long distance thru hike.
I've given this question some thought but really can't come up with any specifics which is what I think you are wanting. Generally, for me, I thought that Central Virginia, NY, Glencliff - Stratton, the Chairbacks in the 100-mile Wilderness, and Katahdin were the toughest sections. I've seen a chart somewhere that someone put together that showed several hiker's average miles/day along the different sections of trail but was unable to find it doing a search. This would probably be pretty helpful if someone could locate it.
I've given this question some thought but really can't come up with any specifics which is what I think you are wanting. Generally, for me, I thought that Central Virginia, NY, Glencliff - Stratton, the Chairbacks in the 100-mile Wilderness, and Katahdin were the toughest sections. I've seen a chart somewhere that someone put together that showed several hiker's average miles/day along the different sections of trail but was unable to find it doing a search. This would probably be pretty helpful if someone could locate it.
Is this the article you are referring to Brian...? Interesting.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?44-AT-Hiking-Rates-Section-by-Section
Ref wasting my time: I couldn't agree more if one is making it up as one goes along and is happy to accept negative daily outcomes that could otherwise have been prevented.
Totally agree ref prior training and avoiding heavy packs.
Ref planning: Let me put it a different way. If there are two back2back stages between shelters/towns, each being 10 miles; one day is a near vertical scramble, and the next day it is as flat as a pool table, then this is valuable information for planning and modifying daily distances. To get it wrong, could have a negative impact, i.e. psychologically draining - promote a greater risk of injury. This is why the military are so interested in the Ground when planning operations.
For me, this type of planning is essential to play the odds in my favour, which promote a greater chance of success in achieving my objective in any long distance thru hike.
the trail doesnt change that dramatically that quickly.
the way you wish to break it down youre talking about hundreds of segments. i doubt anyone even has that knowledge at call, let alone being willing to type it all out here for someone.
hikerboy57
07-05-2012, 14:03
Ill agree with migrating bird.almost every section has its own unique difficulties and challenges, weather and length of the section will dictate your strategy on a daily basis. i do have a tendency to overplan on my section hikes, but for entirely different reasons.
you simply wake up in the morning , look at the map, figure out where you need to get to that day, and start walking. the more you plan, the more those plans will be thrown out the window. just as i life , the trail is no different. the more flexible you are, the happier the journey.
brian039
07-05-2012, 14:36
Is this the article you are referring to Brian...? Interesting.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?44-AT-Hiking-Rates-Section-by-Section
Yep, that's it. Thanks a lot for finding it. That's a great starting point to get you a general idea of the average hiker's pace through different sections of trail. Others have brought up a great point about sections being weather-dependent (not to mention your mental-state at the time) though. For example, most people will tell you that the dreaded roller-coaster section in Northern Virginia isn't really all that bad. But I did that at the end of a 22 mile day in 95 - 100 degree heat while swatting gnats out of my ears and away from my eyeballs so my experience was very different. Same thing in the Whites and in Maine, a wet trail is very different than a dry trail in terms of how far you will make it that day.
I hiked thru Mahooic notch in may, still ice bridges over a lot of the big boulder talus
I broke thru and was hung up by my pack and arms
fortunately I had an ice ax and managed to extract myself
funny feeling hearing the stream 10 feet below you and feet in mid air
NH & Maine hands down
tough stuff
watch out for one another
I've given this question some thought but really can't come up with any specifics which is what I think you are wanting. Generally, for me, I thought that Central Virginia, NY, Glencliff - Stratton, the Chairbacks in the 100-mile Wilderness, and Katahdin were the toughest sections. I've seen a chart somewhere that someone put together that showed several hiker's average miles/day along the different sections of trail but was unable to find it doing a search. This would probably be pretty helpful if someone could locate it.
Here's the thread with the charts that I was playing around with while Achilles was out there this season.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?82476-Map-Man-s-Mean-Miles-Day-in-a-Visual