hike safe

[hikerboy57]

given the recent spate of accidents rescues and deaths on the AT this year, I wanted to post this link to the Hike Safe website:
http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=hiker-responsibility-code.

theres a lot of useful information before you set off on your hike.
"lets be careful out there"(Sergeant Phil Esterhaus , Hill Street blues)
but lets have fun.

[SawnieRobertson]

HikerBoy57, thank you for posting this link. It is accurate and comprehensive for all of the trail, not just the White Mountains. Whoever wrote it did a great job.

[rocketsocks]

Hb +1, with-in my job, we've all grown accustom the acessing dangerous situation which exist, and act accordingly, so much of that training has spilled over into every day life and not really being able to seperate the two.It' is never the thing you plan for that gets you, it's the one you never see coming.Good list, thanks for posting, minimizing all the mishaps is a great equalizer when it comes to staying alive, so do all you can folks.And in such hot weather, I'd like to quote Tipi Walter..."Stay thirst my friends" Hee Haw

[rocketsocks]

And always look both ways while merging from a blue blaze trail, hehe

[The Cleaner]

Haven't seen this before,Thanks for sharing....

[hikerboy57]

i thought reviving this thread was appropriate.
particularly this passage:
"Hiker Responsibility CodeYou are responsible for yourself, so be prepared:1. With knowledge and gear. Become self reliant by learning about the terrain, conditions, local weather and your equipment before you start."




to me what this means is finding every resource i possibly can to educate myself with what i need to know before i embark on my hike.

i take personal responsibility for my own actions, and i accept the risks i take.i try to do enough homework to be able to make informed decisions, but nothing is foolproof, and no matter how well i prepare, i may very well find myself in a dangerous or life threatening predicament.
in the course of my research i meet up with conflicting opinions. i understand in most cases they are opinions, and there are very few absolutes that never vary,so no matter how well i do my homework, s*** happens.

so if i should put myself in a dangerous or life threatening situation, who is responsible ?
there are way to many people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their own actions, way to quick for someone to lay the blame on someone else for being inadequately prepared.
or perhaps every whiteblaze post will now have to carry a disclaimer?

[LAF]

good post HB57

self-reliance, self-sufficiency, self-rescue, education, all play an important role, and responsibility for oneself is key. In my current job I "preach" individual responsibility on a daily basis. People seem to take things lackadaisically when it becomes too familiar to them or they feel they know it all already, or they don't view something as dangerous to begin with, and that can be dangerous. I've placed calculated risk on myself many times to bail out those that didn't pay attention to what they were doing. That's part of my job, to watch out for and take care of people in fun situations that can become dangerous. Some are plain irresponsible and some are just not experienced. It is also part of my job to have serious discussions after the fact with these same people about their actions, or lack thereof, and how they put others at risk. Most are very receptive and open and acknowledge that they should have been more aware and actually ask questions; others are less receptive, those are the ones which I have to remove my responsibility: Sometimes that means telling them they are no longer welcome.

brings to mind -> "...the only thing for which I am responsible is that I am not responsible..." is that a circular reference?

At any rate, preparation, knowledge, developing an ability to adapt, sometimes getting ego in check to know when to bail, and having an open mind to learning from mistakes are all key. Ego plays a big role in many of those cases where rescue is needed.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

"Hiker Responsibility Code

You are responsible for yourself, so be prepared:

1. With knowledge and gear. Become self reliant by learning about the terrain, conditions, local weather and your equipment before you start."

to me what this means is finding every resource i possibly can to educate myself with what i need to know before i embark on my hike.

i take personal responsibility for my own actions, and i accept the risks i take.i try to do enough homework to be able to make informed decisions, but nothing is foolproof, and no matter how well i prepare, i may very well find myself in a dangerous or life threatening predicament.
in the course of my research i meet up with conflicting opinions. i understand in most cases they are opinions, and there are very few absolutes that never vary,so no matter how well i do my homework, s*** happens.

so if i should put myself in a dangerous or life threatening situation, who is responsible ?
there are way to many people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their own actions, way to quick for someone to lay the blame on someone else for being inadequately prepared.



Ouch....this one hurts.

I was raised with the unforgiving idea that if through your own actions you put yourself in an untenable, difficult or even dangerous position, it's your own fault. Thus there should be no expectation or even acceptance of aid from others to extricate yourself from said situation. While I can happily say that this extreme "you made your bed...." philosophy has not actually been my reality, the idea that this is the way that things are in the grown up world has taken firm hold in my psyche.

Thus I wear the Harriman hairshirt. I appreciate beyond telling the efforts and concerns of all our friends on that trip, and I believe the assurances I've received that the efforts were gladly put forth out of friendship and caring. But it will be a long while before I can fully forgive myself for being as "inadequately prepared" as I was in that circumstance.

[moose717]

Ouch....this one hurts.

I was raised with the unforgiving idea that if through your own actions you put yourself in an untenable, difficult or even dangerous position, it's your own fault. Thus there should be no expectation or even acceptance of aid from others to extricate yourself from said situation. While I can happily say that this extreme "you made your bed...." philosophy has not actually been my reality, the idea that this is the way that things are in the grown up world has taken firm hold in my psyche.

Thus I wear the Harriman hairshirt. I appreciate beyond telling the efforts and concerns of all our friends on that trip, and I believe the assurances I've received that the efforts were gladly put forth out of friendship and caring. But it will be a long while before I can fully forgive myself for being as "inadequately prepared" as I was in that circumstance.

Here's a bandaid :) There is nothing to forgive Teacher -- we're always harder on ourselves than we have to be.

[hikerboy57]

Ouch....this one hurts.

I was raised with the unforgiving idea that if through your own actions you put yourself in an untenable, difficult or even dangerous position, it's your own fault. Thus there should be no expectation or even acceptance of aid from others to extricate yourself from said situation. While I can happily say that this extreme "you made your bed...." philosophy has not actually been my reality, the idea that this is the way that things are in the grown up world has taken firm hold in my psyche.

Thus I wear the Harriman hairshirt. I appreciate beyond telling the efforts and concerns of all our friends on that trip, and I believe the assurances I've received that the efforts were gladly put forth out of friendship and caring. But it will be a long while before I can fully forgive myself for being as "inadequately prepared" as I was in that circumstance.

but you were among friends, experienced friends that were there almost specifically for that situation.

[rocketsocks]

but you were among friends, experienced friends that were there almost specifically for that situation.
Funny, I said the exact same thing the other day. Also my thoughts on this are anything can happen to anybody anytime, even the post season mountaineers...happens all the time, that's why they call em accidents. If we could all know in advance exactly which step it would be that facilitated our going over the edge...well I'd just said step that one...we can't, fate is not ours to change, by it's very nature.

Teacher I love that the hike was titled "No Hiker left behind" cause I think that's what happened there, no hiker was left behind, the way it should be.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Believe me, it was only because I knew we'd be with many experienced hikers looking after us and each other that made me consider the trip at all. Every reservation I had (or others had) was quickly followed by "but we're going with a large group of experienced hikers, so this is the safest way for both of us to learn about winter hiking". And yes, I did all I could to prepare for this hike. I DID IT ALL RIGHT, DAMMIT!!!! But some things cannot be prepared for, and those are of course the ones that came back and bite us in the ... tukus.

I will lighten the mood of the entire event whenever I manage to finish this epic Ode to Harriman trip report. I will by that point stop taking it and myself all too seriously (I hope). I will likely once again bounce around believing myself invincible and indomitable, tilting my hiking stick at windmill willows and crying "woe to the wicked".

But I really hate the fact that I made Kevin worry :(

It will be better next time.

[hikerboy57]

Funny, I said the exact same thing the other day. Also my thoughts on this are anything can happen to anybody anytime, even the post season mountaineers...happens all the time, that's why they call em accidents. If we could all know in advance exactly which step it would be that facilitated our going over the edge...well I'd just said step that one...we can't, fate is not ours to change, by it's very nature.

Teacher I love that the hike was titled "No Hiker left behind" cause I think that's what happened there, no hiker was left behind, the way it should be.

i love my trail family.:)

[rocketsocks]

Believe me, it was only because I knew we'd be with many experienced hikers looking after us and each other that made me consider the trip at all. Every reservation I had (or others had) was quickly followed by "but we're going with a large group of experienced hikers, so this is the safest way for both of us to learn about winter hiking". And yes, I did all I could to prepare for this hike. I DID IT ALL RIGHT, DAMMIT!!!! But some things cannot be prepared for, and those are of course the ones that came back and bite us in the ... tukus.

I will lighten the mood of the entire event whenever I manage to finish this epic Ode to Harriman trip report. I will by that point stop taking it and myself all too seriously (I hope). I will likely once again bounce around believing myself invincible and indomitable, tilting my hiking stick at windmill willows and crying "woe to the wicked".

But I really hate the fact that I made Kevin worry :(
It will be better next time.Sounds like you are already on your way.:)

[rocketsocks]

Funny, I said the exact same thing the other day. Also my thoughts on this are anything can happen to anybody anytime, even the most seasoned mountaineers...happens all the time, that's why they call em accidents. If we could all know in advance exactly which step it would be that facilitated our going over the edge...well I'd just said step that one...we can't, fate is not ours to change, by it's very nature.

Teacher I love that the hike was titled "No Hiker left behind" cause I think that's what happened there, no hiker was left behind, the way it should be.


i love my trail family.:)Funny this was supposed to read even the "most seasoned" mountaineers...not post season mountaineers.

...but as we all know post season mountaineers can have accidents too, on trail or off.

I too dig the people that make up the trail.

[Blissful]

Good post.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

On a completely unrelated note....any luck finding Buddy's camera Blissful?

[HikerMom58]

Teach, no worries! I told you that I never worried about you or Snacktime when you were hiking with friends. Hiking isn't cut and dry. Situations arise that aren't your fault at all. We need each other in those situations. We can all be prepared to the best of our ability but in reality we will find that we may need another person's help. It's not a big deal when you're among friends! :)

HB... we don't need to put out a disclaimer on all our WB posts. I feel like my remarks were twisted, somewhat. It was funny. I gave up! :D People do put out disclaimers from time to time on WB. Examples are- please get professional advice, don't take our advice we aren't Doctors etc.. that's what I was talking about.

Just like everyone hiking with T&S, there was a natural sense of "responsibility" for her and Snacktime. We do feel like family, instantly. It's great! When you aren't physically with someone but they are looking to you for knowledge, (just like we were talking about the 3 guys rescued ,recently) "we" would had felt some sense of responsibility, to them, if they looked to us for advice/ knowledge. We aren't responsible for what they do with that knowledge/advice but we naturally feel a sense of responsibility for the advice we give... it's common sense, really.

Our reputation as a good hiking information site is compromised if/when "bad advice" is given. That's the point I was trying to make.

This is an excellent post, btw. Teach, don't take this post to heart in ur situation. It's different.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Thanks HM and everyone. Like I said before, I just have to get over myself and accept that I can't control everything. That's always going to be a challenge I suspect.

[hikerboy57]

Teach, no worries! I told you that I never worried about you or Snacktime when you were hiking with friends. Hiking isn't cut and dry. Situations arise that aren't your fault at all. We need each other in those situations. We can all be prepared to the best of our ability but in reality we will find that we may need another person's help. It's not a big deal when you're among friends! :)

HB... we don't need to put out a disclaimer on all our WB posts. I feel like my remarks were twisted, somewhat. It was funny. I gave up! :D People do put out disclaimers from time to time on WB. Examples are- please get professional advice, don't take our advice we aren't Doctors etc.. that's what I was talking about.

Just like everyone hiking with T&S, there was a natural sense of "responsibility" for her and Snacktime. We do feel like family, instantly. It's great! When you aren't physically with someone but they are looking to you for knowledge, (just like we were talking about the 3 guys rescued ,recently) "we" would had felt some sense of responsibility, to them, if they looked to us for advice/ knowledge. We aren't responsible for what they do with that knowledge/advice but we naturally feel a sense of responsibility for the advice we give... it's common sense, really.

Our reputation as a good hiking information site is compromised if/when "bad advice" is given. That's the point I was trying to make.

This is an excellent post, btw. Teach, don't take this post to heart in ur situation. It's different.three are quite a few people around here with little or no experience that give bad advice.when i offer my own advice, its based on personal experience, or i'll at least try to point the person in the right direction, or better yet, ill shut up if i dont have something constructive to say(i know that last one is a lot of peoples favorite).i dont know everything,its why i still come here, to learn.
but my responsibility for that person ends there.its up to him/her to use the information, to be able to decide what context to use it and when. you are foolish if you only rely on one source for information.its no different than watching the news. without getting into a political discussion, fox news and msnbc/cnn have two very different slants on the same news.better to gather information from as many sources as possible to make your own informed decisions, and in turn,take personal responsibility for your own actions.

[HikerMom58]

Okay... I NEVER said that anyone shouldn't take responsibility for their own actions EVER.
You were showing up on the thread giving us a play by play on DJ. I just wanted to know if he was a "loose cannon" or if he was depending/listening to ya'll for knowledge/advise on hiking. If he was looking to you guys for advice, I foolishly pointed out that you are taking on some sense of responsibility for what advice you were giving him.

If it was known that he did, in fact, follow your advice and it ended badly it might not be a good thing for you or him so you might think about making sure he knows it is HIS own responsibility. That's where the "disclaimer" part came in, it's for your own good and his.

You jumped right over that and went straight into THIS. I have no problem with THIS. I agree 100%. AND you never answered my question about whether or not he is still a loose cannon. In which case, you would be wasting your time if he's already made up his mind that he's going to do his own thing and not take any advise from anyone. Gezzzzzzzz! :D

My current thread was about getting people to think about their responsibly in posting their advice etc..like you said, maybe people with little or no experience should think twice about offering their advice. I try to do that myself. I don't post on a lot of threads b/c I know nothing about the topic. I love to read them to learn things, myself. We all hold a certain sense of responsibility, always for ourselves but then again for others around us, as well. That's my opinion.

[hikerboy57]

first off, theres plenty of information on dakota joe if you know where to look,and you do.
from day one i have chosen to support dakota joe,i made a decision that was based on my observation that he was someone who wanted to turn his life around.something i can personally relate to, so i gave him a shot.his douchebag former associate murdock really gave dj this bada** persona that really didnt exist, and i sent him my gear to give to dj, to give the guy more of a shot. i knew he didnt have any clue what he was getting into. but when he himself finally came on to post, there was a different attitude.and now hes asking questions, his fall on the ice and injury spanked him a bit, and hes learned a bit of respect for ol'mother nature.
as far as whatever advice hes been given, its always been given with the best of intentions.the kid is capable of learning, and is doing just that in the time hes spent off trail.i still dont think he has either the right gear or the knowledge to get through winter in the mountains, but i think hes now smart enough to bail if he has to.
what he does have is an indominable spirit, and that counts for a lot.so , my attitude is wait and see, and i'll try to give him whatever help i can.
a direct question to you hikermom do you really think, for a second, i would ever give anyone anything less than my best information and opinion?

its information, its up to him to decide what to do with it.but the spanking he got on the ice taught him something.i think everyone needs to get spanked sometimes, to learn a healthy respect for the elements and mountain weather.i know i have.

[HikerMom58]

To answer you question, hikerboy. I don't believe that you would ever give anyone anything less than your best information and opinion. I feel you do have that sense of responsibility towards everyone you interact with.. You didn't agree with me on that. You fought me on it. I didn't understand so I laughed it off. It made no sense that you couldn't agree with me. lol

I luv you but you are hard to communicate with sometimes. Whew!! You need to take agreeable lessons from rocketsocks. :D

AND you finally answered my question about how you feel about his level of teach-ability. Sounds like he's a bit slow still.
AND if would have been NICE if you would have shared with us that you are not advising him to be hiking in the mountain's with his level of experience and gear, this time of year. (winter) That's perfect! Thanks!

Quoting you here:

"but i think hes now smart enough to bail if he has to." That's still a lil scary to me.... just pray that he won't have to call SAR, right?
As we know, those mountains can be unforgiving. That could be yet another "spanking", for him but he could be putting others at risk as well. It's all about taking responsibility for yourself and thinking of how your decisions not only affect yourself but others around you. I think you can agree with me, 100%. :D

[hikerboy57]

you have a nice way of restating what wasnt said or implied. he is not "a bit slow", hes a good guy who is both smart and teachable.i didnt advise him not to hike.i and others have responded to various questions hes posed and given him good information to help him continue his trip.when i said hes smart enough to bail, well that was learning by trial. if he hadnt gotten spanked,as i said, he probably wouldnt be as aware of some of the risks .he is now aware.he is learning.neither i nor anyone else is going to tell him what to do or not to do.we are providing information, and im sure dj fully accepts the risks, and has learned already an important lesson in risk analysis.
i believe he is now better equipped to make better decisions.
but,again, they are his decisions,not mine. should he get into trouble, its certainly not due to the information/advice we've given him. as the more affable rocketsocks said, even the post season mountaineers can get into trouble.hopefully he'll be able to avoid getting into serious sh** and make good decisions.and if he comes to us for information, we'll continue to provide him with the best info we can.
everyone who hikes in winter puts others at risk, consciously or not,regardless of level of experience.experience, and experience only , is how people learn to deal with the elements.you can read all you want, but it takes getting out there to find out what works and what doesnt.and sometimes a good spanking.
as far as dakota joe goes, i wish him luck and will help him if and when i can, but in the end, its his hike, not mine.

the hiker code should include one very important point:sh** happens.

[aficion]

HM and HB
My advice....go take a hike
Don't forget your spikes

[hikerboy57]

HM and HB
My advice....go take a hike
Don't forget your spikes

i'll be walking soon .
71 days to launch,
so,it is all good. :)

[HikerMom58]

Ok... this is the last reply. I didn't mean a 'bit slow" as in mentally, at all. I was referring to his willingness to reach out & ask for advice b/c you were the one that mentioned, he was starting to ask questions, inferring that he wasn't doing that before.... teachable.

This is where you & I part ways... If I were his friend, I would say to him in no uncertain terms. In my humble opinion coupled with my experience and knowledge- I would NOT advise you to hike during the winter. Here's why-- IMHO, (you stated already that you feel this way) DJ, you don't have enough experience or the proper equipment to be out there.

I would continue to say...

If you don't want to hear this or take my/our advice then that's entirely up to you. We won't kick you to the curb for not listening to us. Instead, we will continue to be here for you and offer any help we can to help keep you safe out there... ask away.

To me, that would be the most responsible thing to say and do. We can agree to disagree!

Good luck on your upcoming hike, buddy! :D Can't wait to see you when you hit Daleville! :)

[Teacher & Snacktime]

71....70....69....68.....I'm excited for you! Have fun & see you in Damascus I hope!

[rocketsocks]

To answer you question, hikerboy. I don't believe that you would ever give anyone anything less than your best information and opinion. I feel you do have that sense of responsibility towards everyone you interact with.. You didn't agree with me on that. You fought me on it. I didn't understand so I laughed it off. It made no sense that you couldn't agree with me. lol

I luv you but you are hard to communicate with sometimes. Whew!! You need to take agreeable lessons from rocketsocks. :D

AND you finally answered my question about how you feel about his level of teach-ability. Sounds like he's a bit slow still.
AND if would have been NICE if you would have shared with us that you are not advising him to be hiking in the mountain's with his level of experience and gear, this time of year. (winter) That's perfect! Thanks!

Quoting you here:

"but i think hes now smart enough to bail if he has to." That's still a lil scary to me.... just pray that he won't have to call SAR, right?
As we know, those mountains can be unforgiving. That could be yet another "spanking", for him but he could be putting others at risk as well. It's all about taking responsibility for yourself and thinking of how your decisions not only affect yourself but others around you. I think you can agree with me, 100%. :D


youu have a nice way of restating what wasnt said or implied. he is not "a bit slow", hes a good guy who is both smart and teachable.i didnt advise him not to hike.i and others have responded to various questions hes posed and given him good information to help him continue his trip.when i said hes smart enough to bail, well that was learning by trial. if he hadnt gotten spanked,as i said, he probably wouldnt be as aware of some of the risks .he is now aware.he is learning.neither i nor anyone else is going to tell him what to do or not to do.we are providing information, and im sure dj fully accpets the risks, and has learned already an important lesson in risk analysis.
i believe he is now better equipped to make better decisions.
but,again, they are his decisions,not mine. should he get into trouble, its certainly not due to the information/advice we've given him. as the more affable rocketsocks said, even the post experienced mountaineers can get into trouble.hopefully he'll be able to avoid getting into serious sh** and make good decisions.and if he comes to us for information, we'll continue to provide him with the best info we can.
everyone who hikes in winter puts others at risk, consciously or not,regardless of level of experience.experience, and experience only , is how people learn to deal with the elements.you can read all you want, but it takes getting out there to find out what works and what doesnt.and sometimes a good spanking.
as far as dakota joe goes, i wish him luck and will help him if and when i can, but in the end, its his hike, not mine.

the hiker code should include one very important point:sh** happens.


I'm only gonna interject here cause I heard my name, and for no other reason...than to say.

While Dakota Joe may not have tons of hiking experience or miles (neither do I) He's a grown Man with real world experience, is extremely articulate and has something that is very refreshing to me in younger folks...Balls, the essence of the human spirit, good ole testosterone (makes us do crazy stuff sometimes) that drives a person to do what they do. That said, I don't think for one minute that Joe would quit his adventure he's on for anybody's opinion of timing, gear, ego, or even lack of comforts...it's just not gonna happen, he's a Man on a mission, he has a goal, a plan, anything else would be just lip service with a smile and a thank you very much and I'll send ya a post card. I truly believe that. He's a smart bright guy. I' think he'll make it.
Go Joe Go

that said, I'm sure he'll lay up in town when the stuff hits the fan, be crazy not to. I would!

[Teacher & Snacktime]

"Balls!" said the Queen. "If I had to, I'd be King!"

....and the King laughed, because he had to.

[HikerMom58]

I'm only gonna interject here cause I heard my name, and for no other reason...than to say.

While Dakota Joe may not have tons of hiking experience or miles (neither do I) He's a grown Man with real world experience, is extremely articulate and has something that is very refreshing to me in younger folks...Balls, the essence of the human spirit, good ole testosterone (makes us do crazy stuff sometimes) that drives a person to do what they do. That said, I don't think for one minute that Joe would quit his adventure he's on for anybody's opinion of timing, gear, ego, or even lack of comforts...it's just not gonna happen, he's a Man on a mission, he has a goal, a plan, anything else would be just lip service with a smile and a thank you very much and I'll send ya a post card. I truly believe that. He's a smart bright guy. I' think he'll make it.
Go Joe Go

that said, I'm sure he'll lay up in town when the stuff hits the fan, be crazy not to. I would!

Hey RS.. I'll respond back to you. It's nice to hear your opinion of DJ. I'm truly glad that he has found a group that believes in him. Everyone needs to surround themselves with people like that! :)

Having said that, I'm sure you can understand why some would not be be willing to do that & would think it's just plain foolish not listen to the wise counsel of others.

Being bull headed, like you describe him, can either work for him (like you said) or against him. I am hoping it works for him but am bracing for it to work against him. I have a feeling that's how a lot of others may feel as well.

It's fun to share our different thoughts and opinions. :D

I still think you are a very agreeable person, it's refreshing to have you around.

[rocketsocks]

Hey RS.. I'll respond back to you. It's nice to hear your opinion of DJ. I'm truly glad that he has found a group that believes in him. Everyone needs to surround themselves with people like that! :)

Having said that, I'm sure you can understand why some would not be be willing to do that & would think it's just plain foolish not listen to the wise counsel of others.

Being bull headed, like you describe him, can either work for him (like you said) or against him. I am hoping it works for him but am bracing for it to work against him. I have a feeling that's how a lot of others may feel as well.

It's fun to share our different thoughts and opinions. :D

I still think you are a very agreeable person, it's refreshing to have you around.I can't say it's bull headed...just strong willed, and to be honest, I don't really know him, just going by what he's written and making an inference based on that alone. I just know for me, if it's cold out I'll go inside, but sometimes I'll go outside, and if my hand is burning I'll take it out of the fire...I gotta think most people would do the same.

But yes not all feel this way, many like to see a person fail, many like to see a person try, and some just like to see what happens.

[rocketsocks]

"Balls!" said the Queen. "If I had to, I'd be King!"

....and the King laughed, because he had to.
So true, I just had to....be queen.

...sometimes I'm the king, sometimes I'm the queen...but mostly I'm just a clown.25758

[HikerMom58]

I can't say it's bull headed...just strong willed, and to be honest, I don't really know him, just going by what he's written and making an inference based on that alone. I just know for me, if it's cold out I'll go inside, but sometimes I'll go outside, and if my hand is burning I'll take it out of the fire...I gotta think most people would do the same.

But yes not all feel this way, many like to see a person fail, many like to see a person try, and some just like to see what happens.

Yeah, I understand. It's funny that you changed it to strong willed b/c I ALMOST used that word instead of bull headed. Hey- I understand strong willed. I have a pretty good one myself. ;) I'm fairly teachable though so that really tempers my strong will.

I'm in the camp of not wanting to see anyone fail. If they come across as a bad arse with an attitude that really turns me off.

If I see someone attempting to do something that I know will most likely fail for such and such reasons, I have to share with them. After I share with them, I feel at peace with myself. Then, I remain available. I watch to see what happens to them with my hands over my face peering at them between my slightly open fingers. (word picture, lol)

[Dakota Joe]

Interesting reading material. ;) Just because a person does not choose to speak in a certain form does not mean they have not read, taken into account, and learned valuable lessons.
I apologize for not having a smart phone and not being able to ask pertinent questions except at times when a computer is readily available. Let's Remember what Cato The Elder said: "I think the first virtue is to restrain the tongue; he approaches nearest the gods who knows to be silent, even though he is in the right." Not familiar with Cato? This is not some movie reference. Just google Marcus Porcius Cato. Just because I have not been verbal does not mean I have not been there, silent, in the shadows of this forest filled with friend and foe, watching, reading, learning. You will not hear much come out of my mouth, you will not read much that dribbles from my brain to my fingers and into the keys to form words that could be written with such eloquence, and you will never hear me ever put down another human being, demean, insult, or pass judgmental opinions. With that being said, I bid you all good day, Friend or foe, it does not matter to me, I thank you all for your input.

[hikerboy57]

this thread was about taking personal responsibility.
people will continue to take risks.i hike solo i will continue to take risks. i will look to manage those risks as best i can, and there stands the chance that one day i may need to be rescued. thats what sar guys do they rescue people. if everyone just stayed home in bad weather, there would be no reason to have sar in the first place. its what they do.

the point is it is ones personal responsibility to understand those risks before going on a hike.hike safe.

just in case you missed it, here it is again:
http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=hiker-responsibility-code

[HikerMom58]

Interesting reading material. ;) Just because a person does not choose to speak in a certain form does not mean they have not read, taken into account, and learned valuable lessons.
I apologize for not having a smart phone and not being able to ask pertinent questions except at times when a computer is readily available. Let's Remember what Cato The Elder said: "I think the first virtue is to restrain the tongue; he approaches nearest the gods who knows to be silent, even though he is in the right." Not familiar with Cato? This is not some movie reference. Just google Marcus Porcius Cato. Just because I have not been verbal does not mean I have not been there, silent, in the shadows of this forest filled with friend and foe, watching, reading, learning. You will not hear much come out of my mouth, you will not read much that dribbles from my brain to my fingers and into the keys to form words that could be written with such eloquence, and you will never hear me ever put down another human being, demean, insult, or pass judgmental opinions. With that being said, I bid you all good day, Friend or foe, it does not matter to me, I thank you all for your input.

Dakota Joe... You just seem like you want attention. Usually people just go out and hike the trail for themselves. You seem to want to make a big production out of it. I don't understand where you are coming from.....

[hikerboy57]

hike safe joe
http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=hiker-responsibility-code