River crossings in Maine

[Mrs Baggins]

So I'm reading Skywalker's book on his AT hike. I've read many many books on hiking the AT but his is far more descriptive of the river crossings in Maine than any others that I've read. Hubby and I set out to do a thru-hike in 2007 but had to give it up at NC for injury reasons. Now, when I read accounts like Skywalker's, I really have to wonder......I'm 4' 10". My pack would have been around 30 - 35 lbs - the same as for someone much bigger than me. There would have been no way I was going to hoist it over my head to ford rivers. And it seems to me I'd have been carried down stream pretty easily by rushing currents. I know kids have done it. I know women as small as me and older than me have done it. But just the thought of it terrifies me. I don't know how I would have managed it. :( I can't rock hop the way taller people can. At my age I have developed a real terror of falling. I can swim quite well but if I'm in a rushing current and being pulled down by my pack and panic has set in......

I'd love to hear from people around my size who made it to Katahdin and their stories of all of the river fords. I know that a lot of it depends on the amount of rain in the year you happened to be there. Just in general....how did you do it?

[speedbump]

I am 4 11 and also have the river fear. However, I have crossed many a river , barefoot, in Maine and have been fine. However, in NH, I have had to turn around at a few rivers because they were impassable, these were not on the AT. Just unhook the pack so it will come off, use your poles and trust your judgement.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

had several crossings in the 100 mile wilderness many had hand lines longest was the west branch of the pleasant sriver slightly over knee deep in places when i crossed it would depend on the rainfall- I think there is a web site maintained by the maine wildlife people that can give you the fluctuations in depth for the streams in maine


Hillbilly

[SawnieRobertson]

Mrs. Baggins, I am surprized by your question and your admission of fear. I have thought of you as one tough cookie. That said, your question is a really good one. I hope that others will chime in with instructions. Then I hope I at 5 feet can remember them as I stand at the crossing feeling just like I do whenever I am about to take that step onto an airplane. It is the heaviness of the pack that bothers my imagination. How about putting it is a waterproof bag and dragging it behind me? How about waiting until others are there to help if you get into trouble? How about sitting riverside and watching how others do it? Whatever, I think we need to enter the water and just do it.--Sawnie

[WIAPilot]

OK - here I am with my stupid rope suggestion again IF the current isn't too strong. If you are hiking with someone younger and taller, perhaps they will take your pack across? The first time across, they secure a rope before they leave and carry their own pack. They take the rope and secure it on the other end. You then cross holding onto the rope. They come back for your pack and untie the rope at that beginning end at the same time. You would definitely need to buy them dinner though! :) And you would need to have a long enough rope!

[WingedMonkey]

There would have been no way I was going to hoist it over my head to ford rivers.

Maybe not by North Carolina, but by the time you carry that pain in the ass to Maine balancing it on your head is one of the many ways you have tried to carry it, even without stream crossings.

The decision point comes down to is it deep and slow so that you put it on your head, or is is swift and capable of knocking you off your feet.

I use to follow the old school advise of unbuckle your back, I no linger think that is in my best interest and instead tighten my pack up when I think there is a chance I might be swept off my feet.

You might want to research that question and decide for yourself rather or not you think your pack will drag you down, or being without your pack will make make survival more difficult.

There are serious thoughts on both options.

[jeffmeh]

Definitely a rational fear, but I do question the 30-35 lb. pack for someone of your size. I am not a gram weenie, but I could get a winter pack close to that with about five days of food and fuel, and with substantially larger caloric needs and gear based upon my size. I would expect you to carry less weight, particularly if you have made the 2000 mile trek up from GA before having to cross the ME streams.

[WIAPilot]

WM has far more experience than I do, but I believe it is ludicrous for him to advise you to not unbuckle your pack in swift water. You are not even 5' tall and you have a pack weighing 30-35 lbs. It is insane for anyone to not realize that you are at a severe disadvantage. What a taller man could easily manage in the water would be suicide for you to attempt in swift water. Far better for you to lose your pack and risk the elements than to absolutely be pulled down by your pack and held under water.

If I am wrong on this, I will be the first to apologize, but I just do not believe that he is logically taking your weight, height, and the weight of your pack into consideration vs the force of a swift stream. He might be able to right himself up if he were to be pulled under. I don't know if you could.

There may be times when you will simply need to find another method of getting across some streams. Inconvenient? Yes, but at least you will be alive.

[Moose2001]

OK...I don't consider myself an expert on crossing swift water BUT having done the PCT and crossed many VERY swift and deep streams, this is what worked for me.

-Make sure all your clothes and sleeping bag are inside waterproof bags. Then stuff them inside a trash compactor bag. That makes sure everything that's important stays dry. I leave the pack on. Trying to hold it over your head and crossing swift/deep water is an invitation for a cold swim!

- If the water is swift and the footing unsure, I cross wearing my boots. The footing is much better and you feel much safer. I've crossed all the Maine streams 3 times in Crocs but if the water was really fast, I'd leave my boots on.

- I've tried having my hipbelt unbuckled and buckled when crossing. The problem I've had with the pack unbuckled is it tends to shift at the worst time and throws you off balance. I feel better having the hipbelt buckled. I leave the chest strap free. If you do this, you MUST KNOW that if you fall, the FIRST THING you have to do is get that buckle open and the pack off. YMMV!

- I've learned to cross streams at about a 30 degree angle. Walking straight across subjects you to more force from the water and it's easier to loose your footing. I've crossed both angling upstream and downstream. I don't think it makes much difference. The angle, to me, is the important factor.

- Finally, crossing streams is much easier with two hiking poles or some type of stick. If the water is fast or deep, I always make sure I have 3 points of contact. I find a secure spot for both poles and then take a step. Find two more secure pole plants and take a step.

Fear of fast/deep water is one of those things I think we all think about. Some experience and common sense will get you through just fine. If it's more than you think you can handle, put your tent up and wait for the water to go down.

[WIAPilot]

Moose has more experience than I do as well so I guess that I am wrong about unbuckling your pack. However, the safety "experts" and videos always say to unbuckle. I trust Moose's opinion.

[Moose2001]

Moose has more experience than I do as well so I guess that I am wrong about unbuckling your pack. However, the safety "experts" and videos always say to unbuckle. I trust Moose's opinion.

Hey Pilot - I'm only saying this is what worked for me and why. I hiked with many who ALWAYS unbuckled thier waist belt and wouldn't consider crossing with it buckled. One thing I've learned on the trail is there isn't a way that works for everyone.

[WIAPilot]

No, I understand. I think to put it in perspective is that you have to consider that she is as petite and small as many children and I feel Mrs. Baggins does have to be a little more careful than most. There is absolutely no shame in that. Also, your suggestion to perhaps wait it out was good.

[Mrs Baggins]

Thank you one and all for your advice. I would have made it across.....somehow. But I'm not afraid to admit that it always had me deeply worried. When there's 2 feet of rushing water and my 6'1" hubby is crossing it, that's about up to his knees. When it's ME crossing it it's nearly up to my waist. Big difference in how I see things. Normally my pack stays around 26 lbs, but I'm thinking that up in Maine, what with far fewer chances to resupply and we weren't sending any mail drops ahead, I'd have been carrying a lot more food than I normally would have carried.

[Mrs Baggins]

Mrs. Baggins, I am surprized by your question and your admission of fear. I have thought of you as one tough cookie. That said, your question is a really good one. I hope that others will chime in with instructions. Then I hope I at 5 feet can remember them as I stand at the crossing feeling just like I do whenever I am about to take that step onto an airplane. It is the heaviness of the pack that bothers my imagination. How about putting it is a waterproof bag and dragging it behind me? How about waiting until others are there to help if you get into trouble? How about sitting riverside and watching how others do it? Whatever, I think we need to enter the water and just do it.--Sawnie

Why thank you Swanie :) I do think of myself as one tough cookie....most of the time. I have no fear of flying, lost my very deep fears of the dark and woods after too many years of being afraid (I'm still cautious - just not fearful), love to drive fast, and more. But when faced with river crossings.......

[WingedMonkey]

I don't want to say that streams don't scare me any more, they always will (so do heights, go figure). You are smart to be concerned. I was raised in swamps not fast moving water. I'm bigger than you at 5'9" 155 and smaller than that giant you married. Water don't care.

All of the points Moose made took me some learning.

If you don't use poles or a stick at any other time, you want one in a crossing, three legs is better than two.

The 30 degree angle thing (or more) lets you not fight the current and instead think "I need to land near over there, sorta". It will wear you out trying to fight the current, you don't need to.

[Mrs Baggins]

I don't leave the house for any hike, no matter the length, without my hiking poles. Ever. Never. So I'd absolutely have them for water crossings. And there have already been many times, here in the mid-Atlantic, when they've helped me keep my balance and get across (very shallow) water crossings. Did a 3 day backpacking trip in SNP into Jeremy's Run and out.....person who set it up with us said there would "only" be 7 water crossings. Around crossing #9 I was getting very pissed. I finally fell in when I started to do a crossing and realized that I wasn't going to make it. My brain said "back up" and somehow my feet got the command before I was actually ready to execute it....they stepped back, slipped, and down I went into 2 feet of water. No worse for wear but I have never let him forget it when he sets up more backpacking trips and tells me there are "only" so many crossings.......

[Wise Old Owl]

OK this is very much like talking about how to avoid a rip current... so here is the answer to the question....
You start a A you look across - you wont get there. now look at down stream ... you will end at B ... SO look a little further and look at the rocks and the depth.


IF it is a narrow - its more pressure and faster, more distance and harder
IF it is wide - less pressure and you will end up where you want to be...
IF it is cold it is so going to suck
IF it is ICEY no can do.....
Otherwise ...No pun Good luck to you.

You start at A you swim UPSTREAM towards the upper part of the bank as fast and ENERGETIC as you can. See BLACK direction. That is the body direction of your motion! The high pressure of the stream will push you across if you maintain the angle of the black arrow. You cannot loose this higher pressure on your body as this is the energy that pushes you across the stream. Not your swimming capability, you need to simply stay afloat. So part of it is a Garbage Bag to encompass your junk and sealed to keep in the air. The Pack is REVERSED on your body to provide a air pocket to keep you afloat. SO you swim and float at the same time to the other side and end up at B.



16492

[Wise Old Owl]

Please pm me if this is not clear!

[BrianLe]

This must be a matter of substantial seasonal (and perhaps annual) variation, as I recall no significant water crossings on the AT other than the canoe ride across the Kennebec. I got my feet/shoes wet a few times walking through things, and recall one time using a tree branch to cross something, but that's about it.


"One thing I've learned on the trail is there isn't a way that works for everyone."

Hear hear. Or even that always works for the same person in every situation. Leaving waist and chest straps attached likely saved my hiking partner's life last year starting SOBO early on the CDT last year, or at least prevented serious injury. In that particular case, once the "creek" swept him off his feet and started carrying him downstream, the pack floated him high enough that he was able to catch a downstream bridge cable.

I'm not saying that, therefore, it's safer to keep straps attached always (!), just that there are safety tradeoffs. Similar to the issue I face sometimes with an ice axe: the axe makes it more likely that I can self-arrest if I fall, but in some situations I'm less likely to fall in the first place if I'm using my trekking poles rather than an axe.

So too in creek or river crossing situations (it's really really rare that I ford something that's actually called a 'river', btw, unless it's seasonally low or pretentiously named). In water crossings leaving one or both pack straps attached makes the pack ride better, shift less. An abrupt shift of a heavy pack could cause you to lose your footing, or even just turn such that the force of the water hit you in a different way. Just trying to avoid such a shift takes up attention that is better put upon the footing and crossing route and so forth. So this is a situational trade-off too, which I think is too easily boiled down to a simple set of "always" and "never" statements by people when they're teaching beginning backpacking classes. In the real world I think that a lot of this stuff is situational, with the particular approach to a particular challenge is made based on experience and common sense.

[Quadzilla]

The river crossings in Maine have been particularly dangerous this year. Several days of heavy rains over two different time periods made hiking the Trail in Maine difficult and life threatening. July and August tend to be dry months. Already the once saturated ground table has dried up. The Trail is still filled with deep mudholes through the bogs, but the stream and river crossings are more than manageable. ALWAYS where something on your feet ALWAYS!! The rocks in riverbeds are round and slippery. Don't chance a broken toe or "ouchy" slip with bare feet. ALWAYS wear something on your feet ALWAYS. I always wear my hiking boots, less socks, and then dry off my feet and put my socks back on on the other side. ALWAYS face slightly upstream when crossing. ALWAYS loosen your shoulder straps and ALWAYS unbuckle your waistbelt. ALWAYS!! If you should slip and fall, best to be able to "eject" your pack, then to be pulled under the current by it. You can always fish it out downriver. ALWAYS use a pole or stick and ALWAYS make sure you are a secure "tripod" or "quadripod" before moving a single muscle fiber after entering the water. Do not look directly into the moving current, especially on sunny days, as you can encounter vertigo--and that is freaky and scary!!--- Move across slowly and be totally focused on the task at hand......You can read more at www.100milewilderness.info (http://www.100milewilderness.info) Never take chances when crossing fast moving water. Always err on the side of safety. I speak from 35 years of experience of hiking the Trail in Maine and with 3 thru-hikes under my waistbelt. I can't swim a stroke, but this doesn't stop me from enjoying the risks, trials and tribulations of hiking the Trail. Always be safe.

[Water Rat]

It takes a tough cookie to admit they have fears! :)

I think you are getting lots of wonderful suggestions. The bottom line is you will need to judge what is safe for you. There really is not a one-size-fits-all answer to your question. Maybe judge each water source as you come to it. You will figure out what method works best for you.

Of course, it never hurts to pack a Sherpa. Then, the Sherpa could carry you across and you wouldn't even have to get your feet wet. :) THAT would be the way to go.

[Miner]

NEVER left someone else take your pack across if you are small and will be crossing as an individual. In the case of a small woman, the pack adds ballast (ie. weight) which you need since your body wants to float which is bad when you need contact with the bottom to move in the right direction. The weight of your pack can act as ballast and keep you from floating. There are methods of crossing together as a couple or as a group that can help a smaller person that a guy from New Zealand once explained to me. Try googling for info.

As for Skywalkers AT book, his PCT book was written the same year I hiked. His scary description of going over Muir Pass the day before me sounds like a completely different place than the easy straight forward crossing I had. So you have to remember he is writting to be interesting and funny, and he has his own fears and problems that may not be yours. There may be a reason that most people don't write about the river crossing in Maine as in they maybe weren't a big deal to them.

[WingedMonkey]

There may be a reason that most people don't write about the river crossing in Maine as in they maybe weren't a big deal to them.

Maine did seem mild to me after much earlier in my hike in Virginia. It rained for ten days and nights. Foot bridges and logs were out and even the springs were shooting out of the ground where the guidebook said it might be a trickle.

I got so tired of the sound of water, I didn't even want to stop at shelters near streams for a while after that.

It was riskier crossings than Maine for me because it wasn't the norm and so unexpected. In my later visits to the same area what was scary before was back to just rock hopping across.

[freckles]

I can't swim a stroke, but this doesn't stop me from enjoying the risks, trials and tribulations of hiking the Trail. Always be safe.

Good to hear from a fellow non-swimmer. River crossings scare the bejeesus out of me because I can barely swim in a swimming pool. When you add current, I'm totally useless. I've been concerned people would tell me that it would be impossible for a non-swimmer to thru-hike because the river crossings would be too impossible.

[fiddlehead]

If in doubt, PRACTICE!
Go out to a river and wear a life jacket (and running shoes) and simply practice.
I have forded many rivers.
I'm much better at it now than I was before. Why? Experience.

Do the 3 or 4 point stance, lifting only one at a time.
Face upstream.
Learn how to swim in shallow, rocky water when you do fall in (facing downstream, feet up, pack jettisoned, etc.)
Go to whitewater websites to learn this if you don't understand it. (and then PRACTICE)
Try it with all the different options on your feet: barefoot, running shoes, neoprene slippers, hiking boots without socks (Yeah, I've seen rangers do this method), hiking boots with socks, etc. Don't try flip flops. They'll fall off and you'll be swimming after them, or saying goodbye to them. Running shoes work best for me.

You can and will get so good at it, you'll look forward to those fords. (and maybe even do the Kennebec)

Being scared is just something that happens when you don't know what to expect. (usually)

Same with an ice ax for traversing huge snow fields.

How else are you gonna learn?
How else are you gonna be an experienced, well rounded hiker?

I've hiked with guys who swam the Kennebec towing their pack (in a big garbage bag) behind them.
I've been to seminars where folks carried a cheap air mattress to place their pack on and pull it across with a string/rope.
My friends are now into slacklining (hey, look at all the options, right?)

Get so good at it that you'll be giving seminars at future years gatherings.