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View Full Version : Down-filled bags and top loading "hE' washers



Mrs Baggins
07-22-2012, 18:47
So....our REI Sub-Kilo bags are 7 years old and have never been cleaned. (Just stop now if you're going to lecture us on the frequency of cleaning sleeping bags....we're way past that and we don't care, so you're arguments are now irrelevant and we are not going to either read or heed them). I've read that you can put them in front loading machines, just not top loaders with agitators. My top loader is an "hE" machine.....no agitator. Can I put our bags in our washing machine??? I am NOT going to do the bathtub wash thing....no way am I spending the time and energy to wash and rinse them several times in a back breaking bathtub wash situation.

Heald
07-22-2012, 19:12
The two bags I've seen get damaged were washed in machines with agitators. One hikers bag was so twisted around the agitator that I was surprised the only damage was a small tear in the foot-box. It appeared to me the bag was damaged because of the agitator.

Wise Old Owl
07-22-2012, 19:28
If you decide to wash your bag yourself, use a gentle, non-detergent soap such as Nikwax Down Wash 2.0, which is made for washing down- and synthetic-filled items.


Down: For down bags, hand-washing in a bathtub works best. Fill the tub with warm water and add one of the above-recommended cleaners. Put the bag in and gently work in the soap, then allow it to soak for 15 minutes. Drain the tub and press out any remaining water. In a cold-water rinse, work the soap out gently, let the bag sit for 15 minutes and drain. Press out any remaining water. Repeat the rinse until all the soap is out. It's also possible, (according to some bag manufacturers) to machine wash a down bag, as long as a front-loading washer is used. Never use an agitator-style machine as the motion can damage the stitching and insulation. Make sure to wash on the gentle cycle in cool water with one of the aforementioned down soaps.

Wise Old Owl
07-22-2012, 19:34
DryingAir drying is the safest way to dry your bag, but obviously the longest. If you tumble dry your bag, use very low heat or a no-heat setting and keep an eye on it. Dryers have varying heat outputs, so you need to check periodically to make sure the shell and insulation aren't overheating, which can actually lead to melting. Add a couple of clean tennis balls when the bag is nearly dry. This will help break up any clumps of insulation and help restore the loft.
StorageHow you store your bag between trips affects its lifespan. When you arrive home from a trip, first air out the bag inside-out for a couple days to make sure it's dry. Then store in a large cotton storage sack—often included when you purchase a sleeping bag, but also available separately.
Do NOT store your bag compressed in its stuff sack as this will eventually suck the life out of the loft. Watertight storage bags are also a bad idea. Condensation can build up inside them and result in mildew. In short, allow your bag come to its full loft with plenty of cool, dry ventilation, and all will be good.
Other Sleeping Bag TipsRestoring DWRThe original DWR (durable water repellent) finish on a sleeping bag's shell eventually wears off. You can restore water repellency and help keep the bag cleaner if you reapply this finish. There are several products available to restore the DWR to your sleeping bag shell fabric.
Leaking DownMany, but not all, goose-down bags feature "down-proof" liners and shells made of very tightly woven fabric which prevent the down from getting through. If a few feathers escape through the shell or liner of your bag, don't become too concerned. This is normal, especially along the seams. The sharp quills of the feathers may poke through, especially when the bag is new and the down hasn't totally settled. Work the feathers gently back inside, pulling from the opposite side; the holes should be minimal and close back up.

Franco
07-22-2012, 19:49
Most of the damage done on sleeping bags washed at home occurs when the bag is lifted (wet...) out of the washing machine or bathtub.You are meant to transfer the bag inside the cotton bag they come with (large storage bag) so that you don't break the baffles when you move the bag wet.
However since I have a top loader I use the bathtub (put the bag inside the cotton one when washed , let it drip squeezing it then use the clothes line..)
Franco

leaftye
07-22-2012, 20:30
If you don't want to or can't use a bathtub, a new or very clean cooler might be good idea if that cooler has a spigot. That would allow you to drain all the water without lifting the bag. I haven't done that yet. Only used a regular plastic tub. I'll use a cooler next time. Nice thing about doing it this way is you can do it all on a counter while standing upright. No back breaking required.

10-K
07-22-2012, 21:22
Email Western Mountaineering and ask them....

Alligator
07-22-2012, 22:07
Most laundromats have front loaders.

10-K
07-23-2012, 09:22
Nobody is answering her question.....

My _guess_ would be that a HE washer would be fine for washing a sleeping bag.

The key is no agitator.

The sleeping bag doesn't care where the door is on the washer - top or front - how could it matter?

It also doesn't care which way the drum spins ...

As long as it doesn't have an agitator.

Deacon
07-23-2012, 09:23
The new top loader without the agitator posts are amazing. I haven't washed a bag yet as we just got new machine a couple months ago. We have done large quilts though, and the machine handled them very gently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mrs Baggins
07-23-2012, 10:02
Nobody is answering her question.....

My _guess_ would be that a HE washer would be fine for washing a sleeping bag.

The key is no agitator.

The sleeping bag doesn't care where the door is on the washer - top or front - how could it matter?

It also doesn't care which way the drum spins ...

As long as it doesn't have an agitator.

Thank you 10-K! :) First, sorry about the angry rant at the beginning. It's been a very bad few weeks in our family, with the death of someone, and I chose the wrong time really to even ask the question about the bags when I was so on edge about other things.

At any rate......I am really worried about somehow ruining the bags. Maybe I should just let them stay they way they are until they start to fall apart? We do air them out between uses and store them in their loft bags. We have other bags for colder weather and they don't get used nearly as much as the warm weather Sub Kilos do. REI doesn't carry the Sub Kilos anymore and I can't find anything as incredibly light and comfy as they are, so I don't want to end up destroying them in a washer or tub. :(

10-K
07-23-2012, 11:00
Thank you 10-K! :) First, sorry about the angry rant at the beginning. It's been a very bad few weeks in our family, with the death of someone, and I chose the wrong time really to even ask the question about the bags when I was so on edge about other things.

At any rate......I am really worried about somehow ruining the bags. Maybe I should just let them stay they way they are until they start to fall apart? We do air them out between uses and store them in their loft bags. We have other bags for colder weather and they don't get used nearly as much as the warm weather Sub Kilos do. REI doesn't carry the Sub Kilos anymore and I can't find anything as incredibly light and comfy as they are, so I don't want to end up destroying them in a washer or tub. :(

I would bet you dinner and a movie it would be fine. I'm going to email Western Mountaineering and ask - we have an HE washer as well and that'll be useful info for the future.

Retro
07-23-2012, 11:01
Looks like REI has the Sub Kilos available again, although not sure for how long--

http://www.rei.com/product/829873/rei-sub-kilo-20-sleeping-bag-special-buy

and

http://www.rei.com/product/829874/rei-sub-kilo-15-sleeping-bag-womens-special-buy

Kerosene Charlie
07-23-2012, 18:26
So....our REI Sub-Kilo bags are 7 years old and have never been cleaned. (Just stop now if you're going to lecture us on the frequency of cleaning sleeping bags....we're way past that and we don't care, so you're arguments are now irrelevant and we are not going to either read or heed them). I've read that you can put them in front loading machines, just not top loaders with agitators. My top loader is an "hE" machine.....no agitator. Can I put our bags in our washing machine??? I am NOT going to do the bathtub wash thing....no way am I spending the time and energy to wash and rinse them several times in a back breaking bathtub wash situation.

The High Efficiency top load washer (no agitators) use half the water (wash and rinse) that a standard top loader uses. The HE washers will be more gentle than the agitators but I'm very skeptical they will do the job. I've sold these things retail and have heard too many complaints about big and heavy loads. Head for the laundramat and a big front loader.
Kerosene Charlie

BCPete
07-23-2012, 18:43
My wife & I had a marmot destroy our tent recently (we left our basecamp in a remote region of Jasper NP to go for a climb, and came back to a mess) ... when we discovered the problem, the marmot was actually still inside the tent - curled up in the bottom of my sleeping bag.

He pissed all over our bags, so we had to clean them. I didn't want to try it myself (who the heck wants to wreck a couple of $500 WM sleeping bags?), so I tried these folks: http://www.esporta.ca/index2.html

Bottom line is that they did a great job (the lady running the place obviously did down sleeping bags a lot b/c she knew exactly all the things to watch out for), and it didn't cost too much ($40 each). If you have something similar available in the States, I wholly recommend this route for down bag cleaning.

Connie
07-24-2012, 03:02
I asked at local mountain hiking shops who washes the down sleeping bags.

The most recent one was an ordinary wash and fold. That man did the greatest job.

10-K
07-31-2012, 20:44
Reply from Western Mountaineering:


Western Mountaineering (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Western-Mountaineering/100235226683712)


Can you wash your bag in a top-loading washer - with no agitator - yep. Just make sure you dry it thoroughly afterwards.

Mrs Baggins
07-31-2012, 21:16
Reply from Western Mountaineering:


Western Mountaineering (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Western-Mountaineering/100235226683712)


Can you wash your bag in a top-loading washer - with no agitator - yep. Just make sure you dry it thoroughly afterwards.



Now I just have to work up the courage to try it.......would rather not have to pay another $175 - $300 for a new bag........(which would be $350 - $600 for 2 new bags.....)

Mrs Baggins
07-31-2012, 21:18
Now I just have to work up the courage to try it.......would rather not have to pay another $175 - $300 for a new bag........(which would be $350 - $600 for 2 new bags.....)

And then my question would be...which cycle? Regular? Hand Wash? Hand Wash with additional programming for spin dry? So confusing......

Franco
07-31-2012, 21:47
just to stress the point again...
the three most common problems doing it at home are :
1) using detergents (run a wash or two in your machine, on HOT ,WITHOUT any detergents first to get rid of leftovers)
2) not rinsing enough having use the correct soap (pure soap like Nixwax Down Wash)
3) damaging the baffles or the fabric stitching when lifting the bag out of the washing machine
(obviously harder to do on a top loader)
However I have successfully done many bags ( many have...) but I use my bathroom tub.
Franco

10-K
07-31-2012, 22:44
And then my question would be...which cycle? Regular? Hand Wash? Hand Wash with additional programming for spin dry? So confusing......

The same as in a front loader....

Like I mentioned earlier, the sleeping bag doesn't care if the door is on the top of the washer or the front or which way the drum spins. Just do it exactly like you would in a front loader.

When you're ready to take it out, try to roll it up and lift it out like a ball holding it on the bottom.

Should be pretty straightforward.

Grinder
08-01-2012, 12:38
bathtub, special soap others recommended, walk on it like pressing grapes. I dried mine in the home drier without incident. I put in a pair ot sneakers for agitation and it worked fine.

I would avoid agitator washing machines like the plague. I once ripped the lining out of a $400 motorcycle riding suit.

Berserker
08-03-2012, 12:29
Since we're talking washing down bags I have a question. The spin cycle is never mentioned in any information on washing a down bag. Should it be used?

The reason I ask is that I have a front loader and have only ever tried to wash one of my down bags so far. When I pulled the bag out after it had gone through a normal cycle (wash and spin), the outer shell had gotten damaged (looked like it had been stretched and stressed in several spots). I'm thinking it was because of the spin cycle, and if I had pulled it out before the spin there would not have been a problem. So any input on this from experience?

Oh yeah, and don't worry none of my WM bags were harmed in this incident (the bag that was damaged was a TNF) :D

RED-DOG
08-03-2012, 13:22
As long your machine has no agitators and you use the coldest water possible, it should be fine, but when drying use the lowest heat setting possible and check on them every few minutes.

Lostone
08-03-2012, 15:12
I washed my hammock gear over and underquilt a couple of weeks about in a He top loader......Mine has a setting called handwash and I used the extra rinse cycle and medium spin cycle, used Nikwax down wash.....I line dried it....100 degrees here so it dried in one day........ Got rid of the funk......I did put it in the dry on no heat with tennis balls to refluff it.

Seems good as new.

fredmugs
08-04-2012, 15:27
This is probably an ignorant question but couldn't you just get it dry cleaned?

Patrickjd9
08-04-2012, 17:54
Just washed my North Face synthetic bag in our new He top-load washer (no agitator) on gentle cycle and it came out great.

The spin (low speed) left it dry enough that it dried in a single day draped over one of our patio chairs outside. I'd have no reservations about washing our family's other bags the same way.

Sarcasm the elf
08-04-2012, 18:56
I'm gonna be honest, I wash my bags every year or two and I have always used whatever washer was installed in the house I lived in at the time, including many washes in old style top loading washers, never had any problems with damage. I always used the most gentle cycle option on the washer and may have just been lucky, but ive been doing this for almost twenty years and so far so good.

Doc Mike
08-06-2012, 05:54
I wash our bags in a He Front loader with a down wash and then dry in dry on low heat with 3 tennis balls. Works like a charm and the come out looking like new.

colorado_rob
09-06-2012, 12:56
I was nervous, but yes, I recently washed my expensive down bag in a top-loader w/o an agitator. I used the "down wash" product from REI. One little quirk: our washing machine senses the load and fills accordingly. I guess the ultralight down bag fools it into thinking it is a smaller load. I noticed this at the beginning of the wash cycle, so I started it over with a few towells, then when it was full, removed the towells.

I also rinsed one additional time. Then just tumble dried on medium heat. NO TENNIS SHOES!!! These can really mess up a bag. I put nothing additional in the dryer. If I had a tennis ball on hand, I think that would have been light and gentle enough.

colorado_rob
09-06-2012, 12:57
PS: the tumble dry takes a LONG long time. Pull it out and hand-separate the down climbs a few times during the drying.

colorado_rob
09-06-2012, 13:01
PS: the tumble dry takes a LONG long time. Pull it out and hand-separate the down climbs a few times during the drying. woops, "clumps", not "climbs"....

Wise Old Owl
09-06-2012, 13:40
This is probably an ignorant question but couldn't you just get it dry cleaned?


Dry-Cleaning Warning
At the risk of repeating ourselves: DO NOT DRY-CLEAN! Dry-cleaning strips an excessive amount of oils from the down, and down will not fully recover its loft after even one trip through the dry-cleaners. In addition, dry-cleaning fluids are toxic and remain in the bag for weeks. And worse, dry-cleaning usually does not even get the bag clean. Exterior stains may be removed, but residue is left in the down. Dry-cleaning clogs PTFE laminate pores and renders them non-breathable.

tetrachloroethylene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachloroethylene) (perchloroethylene), or "perc" for short, as the ideal solvent. It has excellent cleaning power and is stable, nonflammable, and gentle to most garments. Perc, however, was incidentally the first chemical to be classified as a carcinogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen) by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Product_Safety_Commission) (a classification later withdrawn). In 1993, the California Air Resources Board (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Air_Resources_Board) adopted regulations to reduce perc emissions from dry cleaning operations; the same year, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Environmental_Protection_Agency) (EPA) followed suit. The EPA updated its regulation in 2006 to reflect the availability of improved emission controls. The dry cleaning industry is in the process of replacing perc with other chemicals and/or methods.

Don H
09-07-2012, 08:57
I sent my Feathered Friends back to them for cleaning. Cost was $35 including return shipping.

Snowleopard
09-07-2012, 09:34
DON'T DRY CLEAN any sleeping bag:
Following up on WOO's post, REI says:

Dry cleaning is not appropriate for sleeping bags, especially down. Solvents used in dry cleaning can strip the natural oils from down that help it retain loft. Solvents are also very difficult to remove from synthetic insulation.
http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/caring-sleeping-bag.html
As WOO says, the solvents used in dry cleaning are often toxic.

Don H
09-07-2012, 18:11
I believe that washing a down bag reduces its ability to insulate. I have no proof of this, just my belief.
I own 6 different down bags. I always use a silk liner to protect the bag from getting dirty. The ones I've washed just don't seem to insulate as well.

Drybones
09-07-2012, 18:42
I have the same bag which I bought at an REI scratch and dent sale, made a cut in each tube and added some down to give me a lower rating, taped the holes and washed it in a top load machine at the coin laundry, no problems at all. Put a few tennis balls in the drier to loosen the down.