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CN7Eagles
07-22-2012, 19:38
Any opinions? I will be hiking in the smokies. Pros v. Cons? Any articles you can point my way. I've been searching. Just struggling finding anything. Thanks.

Miner
07-22-2012, 20:11
First of all, don't take advice from anyone who hasn't tried both as they have no personal experience to base their opinion on. I was a sleeping bag user for most of my life. Still have 3 Marmot down bags: 15deg, 30deg, 40deg. I haven't used any of them since 2008 when I bought my current 20 deg quilt (though in all honesty, the amount of down loft is more like a 25-30deg bag).

Pros:
Quilts with the same insulation should be lighter, and stuff smaller as they lack the underside material. Crushed insulation under your body is useless as insulation so why have it? Afterall, that is the job of your sleepig pad. Though sleeping bags can be layed open like a quilt, they aren't as good at it as a quilt so I find a quilt more flexible overall. You can wrap it around yourself as tight or loose as you want. A lot of my body sweat is absorbed into my foam sleeping pad rather then a sleeping bag bottom so I don't have to launder my quilt as often.

Cons:
Quilts can be drafty as you toss and turn during the night and it comes untucked on the side. I have myself trained to retuck it when I flip over so it isn't a problem, but some people can't seem to do that and wake up cold.

I mainly stick with the quilt because of the small weight difference and because I can use the same bag more easily in a larger temperature range.

leaftye
07-22-2012, 20:21
Quilts weigh less and pack smaller, all else equal. It tends to cost less. They usually take longer to arrive since they're usually made when you order. I would not suggest one if I expected many nights under 20°F. You could stay warm with the proper quilt at that temperature, even overheat, but whatever drafts you get will be hard to ignore. Some people use cords to secure their quilt around a pad. Some people use cords to hold the quilt tight around their body. Some people don't use cords at all. A strip of fabric is sometimes used instead of those cords. Some quilts have a zipper and drawcord that forms the footbox, but the footbox can be opened so that the quilt becomes a blanket/comforter. On cooler and cold nights, you will probably need separate head apparel to keep your head warm since quilts generally don't have a hood. One quilt maker has quilts that can be worn like a poncho.

I use "usually" and "probably" a lot because there are many variations in quilts.

CN7Eagles
07-22-2012, 20:22
Thanks! any recommendations for quilt?

leaftye
07-22-2012, 20:27
Golite if you want a brand name. Nemo if you want a brand name and can wait a while. EnLIGHTened Equipment if you want one that opens as a blanket. Jacks R Better if you want one that you can wear like a hammock...you do use a cord to wrap it around your body to reduce drafts. MSR if you want...weird. I don't know what to make of their quilts. There a few other cottage quilt makers that are also well suited if you use a hammock. Hammock quilts can be narrower, but that would have more drafts if you sleep on the ground.

scree
07-22-2012, 20:29
If you're going cheap, get one or more surplus poncho liners. I sleep under one every night when I'm at home and warmer nights when hiking. You could tie several together to make a thicker blanket with air pockets, though I'd suggest just bagging it once it gets really cold. Very cheap ($10-$15 each) if you buy from a local surplus store, probably $30-$40 if you buy online.

Rocket Jones
07-23-2012, 06:28
If you've got the skills, or the patience to learn them, Ray Jardine has a quilt kit that works well. It's synthetic instead of down, so it doesn't compress as much, but I've been happy with mine for a couple of years now.

daddytwosticks
07-23-2012, 07:09
I'm a restless sleeper. Lightweight down quilt in the warmer months when drafts aren't a big deal. Back to down mummy bags when it gets colder. :)

Connie
07-23-2012, 08:02
I would pay a lot of attention to the width.

Maybe you have a quilt at home? Notice the width you actually use. I did.

I thought I would make my own quilt, to start. I used a $5 Goodwill down quilt.

Next, I purchased a 20 F 900-fill Brooks Range down half bag on sale. Either one or both, cover about everything I experience hiking.

If I had the cash on hand,

1. I would purchase the Enlightened Equipment karo-construction quilt.

2. I would purchase an underquilt made for hammocking, ordering a drawstring footbox and use OMNI velcro product to enclose the sides of the footbox. I would try Tewa, Wilderness Logics, Hammockgear, Arrowhead Equipment, Underground Quilts, did I leave anyone out?

3. I would purchase a quilt made by Jacks R Better or Z-Packs.

and not necessarily in that order.

The fact is, I would love to have all of them.

If you are a DIY-guy, here is discussion and links (http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5380) for materials and supplies.

couscous
07-23-2012, 21:57
Jacks R Better if you want one that you can wear like a hammock...

I don't wear my hammocks, but I do prefer my quilts for ease of entry and less confinement.

Connie
07-24-2012, 13:49
Haha... I meant overhead like poncho and wrapped like a jacket.

Hammock. I won't live that down!

Oh, I didn't write that. I need my coffee.

gunner76
07-27-2012, 21:56
Lots of vendors on HammockForums that sell quilts, Top and Bottom Quilts
Arrowhead, HammockGear, Warbonnet, Jacks R Better, Enlighten Equipment, Wilderness Logics, Leighs Quilts, Te Wa, Underground Quilts, Tree to Tree Gear and others

juma
07-28-2012, 18:18
I have a couple JRBs, shenandoah and hudson river, and they work good above 30.* I did sew wings on them to tuck them better and they did not work nearly as well without the tuckable wings. Once it starts getting cold tho, I think its the total button up of a bag that makes it better. I am heading out to the JMT/PCT in september. I'll be taking my WM ultralite or maybe the versalite. You gotta be able to sleep warm.

Bear-bait
07-28-2012, 18:53
Thanks! any recommendations for quilt?

I'm much like Miner in that I own several high quality down sleeping bags from Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends and recently purchased a quilt and love it even more--for all the reasons stated above. I highly recommend Katabatic Gear (http://katabaticgear.com/home/) quilts. The design of these quilts is top rate, as is the build quality. Check out the review of two of Katabatic's quits here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9hPKzf9D4o I own the summer weight Chisos quilt, for what it is worth. It kept me toasty warm in Maine well past the rated 40 degrees early this summer.

Grady Wilson
11-26-2012, 17:00
Any opinions? I will be hiking in the smokies. Pros v. Cons? Any articles you can point my way. I've been searching. Just struggling finding anything. Thanks.

Have you considered a snuggie?

bannerstone
11-26-2012, 17:26
Be sure to look for a feature that some have; a snap at the top and a drawstring so you can put your head through an opening and cinch it down around your neck. This really helps with keeping the quilt tucked in around your shoulders.

Hammock Gear make their Burrow quilts like this. They make (2) type of footbox's; one with snaps and a drawstring that can be layed out flat if desired, the other is a sewn footbox which I prefer but those cost an extra $20.

Sorry to stay that you just missed the Black Friday sales with a number of the cottage vendors HG and a number of others had some killer deals. :(

David

skinewmexico
11-26-2012, 18:00
It's even more important to use an adequate pad with a quilt. I've used my GoLite Ultra down to 22, and stayed toasty. Used straps under the pad to stop drafts. Only works if you have a big enough pad. Enlightened Equipment has a list of instock quilts on BPL, with an extra $10 off thru..........today.

Dogwood
11-26-2012, 20:01
I have myself trained to retuck it when I flip over so it isn't a problem, but some people can't seem to do that and wake up cold. - Miner

LOL. I'm almost there too Miner. Got a little more quilt training to do, I guess.

It's even more important to use an adequate pad with a quilt. -Skinewmexico

Yup! And, by that I think it also applies to shape and size of your pad. For example with my GoLite 20* down quilt that is sewn shut at the junction where it opens up near the footbox I prefer a pad that narrows down at the feet so that it fits inside my footbox and yet is still long enough to keep my shoulder and head on the pad.

Maui Rhino
11-27-2012, 07:39
I used a mummy bag for years and hated the confined feeling. In warmer weather, I loved my military poncho liners, but they aren't much good below 40°. Last year, I made myself a new poncho liner using 6oz Climashield Apex for insulation, for use in colder temps. The 6oz is rated for ~25°. The coldest I have tested it so far was 36°, and I was toasty warm. Drafts were not a problem when I rolled around, since I made my blanket in a large rectangular shape, and not tapered at the feet like some quilts I have seen. At 87" by 59", it weights 37.1 oz. Building it was pretty easy. I used 1.1oz uncoated nylon ripstop for the shell, and sewed it inside out, then flipped it and sewed it closed. I also added a perimeter stitch, and some lengths of gutted paracord and tac-toggles to tie it shut. Because Climashield Apex is a continous filiment insulation, minimal quilting is required to keep it in place. I simply sewed a large X across the blanket and called it good. Since I made this, my mummy bag has been retired. I love the versatility of a blanket over a sleeping bag, and this woobie rocks!I plan on using this when I do my thru-hike in a few years.

Tipi Walter
11-27-2012, 09:03
Pros:
Quilts with the same insulation should be lighter, and stuff smaller as they lack the underside material. Crushed insulation under your body is useless as insulation so why have it? Afterall, that is the job of your sleepig pad. Though sleeping bags can be layed open like a quilt, they aren't as good at it as a quilt so I find a quilt more flexible overall. You can wrap it around yourself as tight or loose as you want. A lot of my body sweat is absorbed into my foam sleeping pad rather then a sleeping bag bottom so I don't have to launder my quilt as often.


A good down sleeping bag acts as both a quilt and a bag, you just have to know when to keep it unzipped and used like a blanket and when to mummy up and get zipped in (for butt cold nights at 10F or below). A stand-alone quilt cannot deal with 10F or below but a sleeping bag can. A good down bag can pull a winter trip when one night gets to 40F (keep it open like a quilt) and another night a week later gets to 0F. It's more flexible, of course.

Plus, the notion that "crushed insulation under your body is useless" is wrong at least for me since I toss and turn thru the night and if I'm zipped up in my bag mummy style the bottom becomes the side (which will keep me warm) and then becomes the top and then turns around to become the bottom again, etc. Full enclosure is vital when it comes to cold weather camping and trying to keep your body rolled tight in a quilt is nearly impossible to do after a night of movement. Let a zippered mummy bag do this for you. And unzip it like a quilt on warmer nights.

BTW, if you use an Exped downmat you will have insulating and warm down under you the whole time and with 8R the downmats are fantastic for winter backpacking.

leaftye
11-28-2012, 02:13
A quilt or sleeping bag with a sewn footbox still isn't any fun when used well above it's rating. That's why I only recommend quilts that has a footbox that can be opened vented or completely undone. I believe some sleeping bags have a footbox when venting, but it's pretty rare.

SCRUB HIKER
11-28-2012, 05:02
Plus, the notion that "crushed insulation under your body is useless" is wrong at least for me since I toss and turn thru the night and if I'm zipped up in my bag mummy style the bottom becomes the side (which will keep me warm) and then becomes the top and then turns around to become the bottom again, etc. Full enclosure is vital when it comes to cold weather camping and trying to keep your body rolled tight in a quilt is nearly impossible to do after a night of movement. Let a zippered mummy bag do this for you. And unzip it like a quilt on warmer nights.

Although I've never used a quilt below about 28 degrees and thus can't speak for really cold nights, I disagree with the idea that tossing and turning is more comfortable in a mummy bag than a quilt. For awhile I had a Mountain Hard Wear down mummy bag in which the down was unevenly distributed, without much insulation on the part under my back. Whenever I turned over in it, I suddenly had a barely-insulated side of the bag exposed to the outside air. It was essentially only warm for back-sleeping. I use the buckle strap on my quilt (a GoLite 3-season) to keep it secured around my sleeping pad, so that I have a toasty little cocoon that doesn't move at all when I do. I don't have that problem that other people have mentioned where they let in drafts and have to wake up to re-adjust their quilt. If I do let in drafts with my movement, I apparently tuck myself back in without waking up, because I've yet to wake up cold in my quilt.


A quilt or sleeping bag with a sewn footbox still isn't any fun when used well above it's rating. That's why I only recommend quilts that has a footbox that can be opened vented or completely undone. I believe some sleeping bags have a footbox when venting, but it's pretty rare.

I disagree with this. My GoLite quilt came with a sewn-in footbox. I used it all last summer out West and on a little AT jaunt back home in September ... some nights probably didn't get down below 60 degrees (quilt rated to 20 degrees). If it was too warm, I just put one foot in the footbox to keep the quilt more or less on me and one foot out but nearby. It was never a problem in the slightest.

I am an evangelical convert to quilts, having made the progression from synthetic mummy bags to down mummy bags and now quilts. I suppose I never had a really bitchin' down mummy bag, like a WM or Feathered Friends, so I can't speak to that. But my quilt from GoLite was $200 on sale; some of the cottage manufacturers like EnLIGHTened or Jacks R Better are slightly more expensive, but with them you're getting made-in-the-USA and really personalized customer service. The prices are generally quite a bit better than mummy bags. Unless I get into expedition mountaineering or winter camping, I'm probably not going to buy a mummy bag again.

leaftye
11-28-2012, 06:25
I disagree with this. My GoLite quilt came with a sewn-in footbox. I used it all last summer out West and on a little AT jaunt back home in September ... some nights probably didn't get down below 60 degrees (quilt rated to 20 degrees). If it was too warm, I just put one foot in the footbox to keep the quilt more or less on me and one foot out but nearby. It was never a problem in the slightest.

I also have a Golite quilt, and my experience with its sewn footbox is what I'm talking about. I hate hanging a foot out. The temperature differential is too great, and getting my foot back in takes too much effort to do without waking up. It's basically a sleeping bag without a zipper or hood, which doesn't offer much more flexibility over a sleeping bag. Maybe I'll offer it for trade and hope there's someone that prefers a sewn footbox.

garlic08
11-28-2012, 10:07
I imagine the OP is long gone by now, so this is just a debate among the usual suspects.

I also am nearly an "evangelical convert" to quilts, after my X-C bicycle tour (https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/index.html?o=1&doc_id=10115&v=7v) last summer. I needed a summer bag, especially since I moved to AZ. I resisted trying a quilt for many years, but finally pulled the trigger on a brand new custom-made EnLightened Equipment 30F job for $190 shipped. Great price for the warmth, I tell you. I expected mainly summer conditions on the bike tour, but hit spring snow for most of a week in the Washington Cascades with temps just below freezing. The quilt was unbelievably cozy. It's long enough to pull over my head and close around my face with the drawstring, so I didn't even need a hat. Sure I got a few drafts, but then I'd just tuck it back in and go back to sleep. When daytime temps hit 105 in the Midwest, 90 at sunset, the quilt was great to throw over when it finally cooled off to 75 by morning. The zipper and hood were a good sacrifice for me, in weight, price, and bulk. One of the best features, I thought, was that it stayed so clean. Since I never actually laid on top of it, I never had to wash it. A few minutes in the sunshine once in a while and it stayed fresh.

It's a very simple, inexpensive piece of gear that works well for me. Plenty of experienced hikers have tried them and don't like them, so it's definitely not for everyone.

Tipi Walter
11-28-2012, 13:06
Although I've never used a quilt below about 28 degrees and thus can't speak for really cold nights, I disagree with the idea that tossing and turning is more comfortable in a mummy bag than a quilt. For awhile I had a Mountain Hard Wear down mummy bag in which the down was unevenly distributed, without much insulation on the part under my back. Whenever I turned over in it, I suddenly had a barely-insulated side of the bag exposed to the outside air. It was essentially only warm for back-sleeping. I use the buckle strap on my quilt (a GoLite 3-season) to keep it secured around my sleeping pad, so that I have a toasty little cocoon that doesn't move at all when I do.

It sounds as if your Mt Hardwear bag is poorly made as no decent down bag has "blank spots" in the shell material with little or no down. Unfortunately, many once-great down bag makers like North Face have produced bags with too much shell fabric and too little down. This is aggravating when you find a nice Nupste jacket or a Blue Igloo bag to be woefully underfilled.

As I said before, I would never use a down quilt for winter backpacking as it just doesn't have the 'survival-peace of mind' security of a good WM or FF down bag. As noted. one winter night can be 40F and the next -10F. Then you wish you had a true winter bag with a zipper and a collar and even a hood and 12 inches of wondrous loft. People will play around with minimal gear like a quilt until the going gets tough and then what? They end up shivering all night long and end up wearing every piece of clothing in their kit.

leaftye
11-28-2012, 13:27
As I said before, I would never use a down quilt for winter backpacking as it just doesn't have the 'survival-peace of mind' security of a good WM or FF down bag. As noted. one winter night can be 40F and the next -10F. Then you wish you had a true winter bag with a zipper and a collar and even a hood and 12 inches of wondrous loft. People will play around with minimal gear like a quilt until the going gets tough and then what? They end up shivering all night long and end up wearing every piece of clothing in their kit.

I don't think anyone currently makes a quilt for below 0°F. You could get a quilt custom made with 12 inches of loft and a very plush balaclava and be warm at very cold temperatures, but any draft that gets in is going to be shocking even if it only has a very momentary effect and negligible effect on body temperature. Opting out of a quilt at low temperatures isn't about survival, it's about comfort.

Calling a quilt minimal is inaccurate at best. You can go minimal with a sleeping bag and shiver all night while wearing every piece of clothing in the kit. The minimalist saying that a sleeping system should involve wearing every piece of clothing on the coldest night is irregardless of the use of a quilt or sleeping bag.

Tipi Walter
11-28-2012, 13:42
Calling a quilt minimal is inaccurate at best. You can go minimal with a sleeping bag and shiver all night while wearing every piece of clothing in the kit. The minimalist saying that a sleeping system should involve wearing every piece of clothing on the coldest night is irregardless of the use of a quilt or sleeping bag.

There are two problems with this. First, most backpackers end up with wet layers which should not be worn inside a down bag for insulation during the coldest nights. By this I mean wet socks or long john bottoms or wet baselayers or hats, etc. A down bag is not designed to dry wet clothing. Second, too much clothing worn inside a zipped up down bag defeats the loft and actually decreases the warmth of a bag (by crushing the loft from the inside out). Needing to wear everything means your bag is not rated low enough for conditions even if it's a technique used my minimalists.

Question---if carrying a quilt is not minimal or lighter than why not just carry a bag? If it is lighter than the other down bag options than to me this means it will not be as warm. So here's my mantra---warmth in the winter comes with more weight.

leaftye
11-28-2012, 15:19
There are two problems with this. First, most backpackers end up with wet layers which should not be worn inside a down bag for insulation during the coldest nights. By this I mean wet socks or long john bottoms or wet baselayers or hats, etc. A down bag is not designed to dry wet clothing. Second, too much clothing worn inside a zipped up down bag defeats the loft and actually decreases the warmth of a bag (by crushing the loft from the inside out). Needing to wear everything means your bag is not rated low enough for conditions even if it's a technique used my minimalists.

I don't disagree, but I'm not a minimalist. I like being comfortable and having a safety margin.


Question---if carrying a quilt is not minimal or lighter than why not just carry a bag? If it is lighter than the other down bag options than to me this means it will not be as warm. So here's my mantra---warmth in the winter comes with more weight.

Lighter does not mean not as warm. If you believed that, you wouldn't be using a Western Mountaineering bag, you'd be using a synthetic bag or wool bed roll.

One could be a minimalist with cheap heavy and bulky gear. At an extreme, there are minimalist survivalists with youtube videos of going camping with very few items, like a big knife, machete, big firesteel, a bundle of fatwood, and a spool of paracord. Their few items weigh as some of our full setups, except they need to build a bed, reflecting wall and keep a fire burning all night to stay warm. I'd rather carry more pieces of lighter gear and be comfortable for the same weight.

The reasons why you use a very expensive down sleeping bag are probably the same reasons many of us use high quality down quilts: they are lighter and pack smaller.

Grady Wilson
11-28-2012, 16:36
Wow, this is turning into a heated debate.

This is what I do; I carry a roll of aluminum foil. When I get to the shelter, I have a hiking buddy or stray hiker wrap me in it from head to toe like a mummy. I then get them to lay me in the shelter, cut me a mouth hole, and crimp the top and bottom like a baked potato. Then in the morning, I rip it off like Hulk Hogan. Ultralight baby!

Rasty
11-28-2012, 16:52
Wow, this is turning into a heated debate.

This is what I do; I carry a roll of aluminum foil. When I get to the shelter, I have a hiking buddy or stray hiker wrap me in it from head to toe like a mummy. I then get them to lay me in the shelter, cut me a mouth hole, and crimp the top and bottom like a baked potato. Then in the morning, I rip it off like Hulk Hogan. Ultralight baby!

I got to ask! Do you use a fork to poke holes before or after you wrap yourself up? What about coating with oil and salt?:)

Grady Wilson
11-28-2012, 17:10
I got to ask! Do you use a fork to poke holes before or after you wrap yourself up? What about coating with oil and salt?:)

After. With one of those fancy titanium ultralight forks. No oil or salt but sometimes butter.

Dogwood
11-29-2012, 00:52
A good down sleeping bag (CAN) act(s) as both a quilt and a bag, you just have to know when to keep it unzipped and used like a blanket and when to mummy up and get zipped in (for butt cold nights at 10F or below).

Harder or impossible with the half or 1/4 zip sleeping bags I have! Overall, a good comment though.

Plus, the notion that "crushed insulation under your body is useless" is wrong at least for me since I toss and turn thru the night and if I'm zipped up in my bag mummy style the bottom becomes the side (which will keep me warm) and then becomes the top and then turns around to become the bottom again, etc.

Good observation for toss and turner types. The crushed down insulation loses its warmth to wt ratio but really isn't totally uselss as I've heard so many quilters say.

Full enclosure is(CAN BE) vital when it comes to cold weather camping and trying to keep your body rolled tight in a quilt is nearly impossible to do after a night of movement. Let a zippered mummy bag do this for you. And unzip it like a quilt on warmer nights.

Nice! Your sleep system obviously is working for you.

theinfamousj
11-30-2012, 01:50
While I lust after a Jacks R Better quilt, I have been using my winter mummy bag fully unzipped as a quilt on all but the coldest nights. Aside from the annoying hood thst is now on top and off center, it has done very well in this role. Just remember that there is no rule thst you have to use a bag in bag mode if you don't want to.

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