View Full Version : Wild Dogs?
northernflight
07-26-2012, 01:34
I just got back from attempting to hike, fell short 9 miles due to weather, the Pemigewasset Loop and I had an unusual experience on the first day. About 3 miles into the Lincoln Woods trail in the Pemigewasset Wilderness in the White Mountains my group and myself ran into two dogs coming towards us along the trail. One dog came up to us paused for a minute and then continued by us on down the trail. He had a collar on but was in rough shape. The second dog seemed to be in perfect health but as soon as he saw us coming up the trail he darted into the woods and avoided us as we went by. I was tempted to try and interact with them when we first saw them, thought they were some hikers dogs but when the second dog jumped into the woods the red flags started going up and we pretty much had a staring match with the first dog that came up to us and then hurried down the trail by the second one. What are other people’s experiences with wild dogs and what is the best way to deal with them? I’ve heard plenty about how to handle skunks, bears, mountain lions, and fisher cats but nothing ever about wild dogs.
kayak karl
07-26-2012, 06:36
ive had 1 charge me (just letting me know he was boss:)), another day saw 2 run and hide and on a different day 1 (Freddy) followed me for 37 miles. http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=260878
Lemni Skate
07-26-2012, 07:34
I ran into three pit bulls in SNP a few years back. They were so threatening and agressive I had to back away and abort my hike for the day. I don't know if they were wild, but they scared me far worse than all of the dozens of bears I've encountered.
Wise Old Owl
07-26-2012, 09:43
Interesting thread idea.... just don't assume when you see a German Sheppard its a "wild dog" when its the Eastern Coyote.http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PUiAFB--pxs/TQv8UlkotmI/AAAAAAAAA1I/IvUvumNeE0c/s1600/Coyote_Fusco.jpg
CLICK HERE (http://naturallynewengland.blogspot.com/2011/01/tweed-wolf-eastern-coyote.html)
northernflight
07-26-2012, 10:02
How big are coyotes exactly? Ive always thought they were small but I haven't seen one. The second dog, which i thought was a husky could have been one.
Old Grouse
07-26-2012, 17:52
Excellent article, WOO. Thank you!
Drybones
07-26-2012, 19:51
Interesting thread idea.... just don't assume when you see a German Sheppard its a "wild dog" when its the Eastern Coyote.http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PUiAFB--pxs/TQv8UlkotmI/AAAAAAAAA1I/IvUvumNeE0c/s1600/Coyote_Fusco.jpg
CLICK HERE (http://naturallynewengland.blogspot.com/2011/01/tweed-wolf-eastern-coyote.html)
Gadsden is full of these furry guys. My doberman almost caught one in the back yard one morning. Had one run across the yard one day with a cat in his mouth...their favorite food.
How big are coyotes exactly? Ive always thought they were small but I haven't seen one. The second dog, which i thought was a husky could have been one.
If you got as close as you seem to have, it wasn't a coyote. They are thinner than most huskies or shepards. But they can be as tall as a medium sized german shepard.
They are extremely wary of humans. If your hunting coyotes you better plan on making a 200 yd shot. And if you can reach out even farther it's better.
Sarcasm the elf
07-26-2012, 20:24
How big are coyotes exactly? Ive always thought they were small but I haven't seen one. The second dog, which i thought was a husky could have been one.
Around here it's common for them to be in the 25-35lb range and can potentially be bigger. They are wild animals and are skinnier then your average domestic dog, so they can appear larger that a dog of similar weight.
Dogs and coyotes can also interbreed creating larger offspring, though I have never knowingly run into any of these myself.
The picture WOO has put up is with a full winter coat. The animal is thinner and faster than he looks.
Sarcasm the elf
07-26-2012, 20:28
They are extremely wary of humans. If your hunting coyotes you better plan on making a 200 yd shot. And if you can reach out even farther it's better.
That all depends on how habituated they are to humans being present. I commonly get within 50 yards of them on my local trails (but they always do run away when I get close) and the farmer that boards our horses shot two at close range this spring.
WingedMonkey
07-26-2012, 20:36
From the article the old hooter linked:
While dogs and Coyotes can interbreed, the resulting hybrid has behavioral and biological disadvantages that create an evolutionary dead end. These hybrids (shown by genetic research to be extraordinarily rare) do not reproduce successful young in the wild
Wise Old Owl
07-26-2012, 20:50
after several run ins on the AT - I would say sixty pounds of lean muscle. 3 feet high? It only happens when your walk or hike is absolutely silent. no clicks,bells, or anything that would give you up.... Hence a huge issue when hiking with groups or a woman. Subtle aren't I? Owls are very quiet.
No feelings were intended to harm in this post.... I have nothing against noisy groups - I hike occasionally with large cymbals and folks with Tambourines and long beards or hair on the trail that conduct Incessant talking and rambling thoughts..... (Big Grin....) Yea I went there ... in a small way.... come on you know you snarked!:banana
What are other people’s experiences with wild dogs and what is the best way to deal with them?
On local trails I've started carrying dog spray on my night hikes. Dogs concern me more than truly wild critters.
Wise Old Owl
07-26-2012, 22:30
leaftye - people have a propensity to be far greater in threat value on the trail
wow no spell chick required....
leaftye - people have a propensity to be far greater in threat value on the trail
It's people that make or allow those dogs to be dangerous. It's people after all that allow rodent sized dogs to think, nay, to know that they can get away with biting humans. The last thing I need is a bigger dog trying to defend something or someone against me.
peakbagger
07-27-2012, 07:34
I have encountered a few dogs during my section hikes of the AT and their response to me was somewhat related to if I had my hiking poles in hand. Most dogs seem to figure out that a person with a hiking pole is not to be messed with, while someone without is fair game. I still give them a wide berth even with poles but the dogs usually just put on a show and thats it.
SloHiker
07-27-2012, 12:58
In many parts of the country east of the Mississippi, feral dogs offer the greatest "wildlife" threat to humans venturing in the outdoors. I culled a bunch of feral dogs once for a cattle rancher who was losing animals that weighed 200 pounds or more. Several of the dogs I culled weighed over 70 lbs and an unarmed person would have had no chance against them had they been targeted.
In most of the eastern states, coyotes are not habituated to humans and avoid contact with the exception of a curious examination from time to time. A BIG coyote can weigh 45 lbs or so, with the average much closer to 25-30 lbs. Their fur makes them appear much larger.
A word of caution to those who let their dogs accompany them in coyote country. Yotes have been known to resist their natural fear of humans to attack domestic animals and will even attempt to bait them into an ambush by other unseen members with playful demonstrations of dog like behavior. If confronted, don't act like prey. Don't run or turn your back on them, and resist them forcefully if necessary.
Since you're in an outdoor setting far removed from the normal means of help and support, you've made some provision for your personal safety. Right?
Brer Sam
07-27-2012, 13:43
Remember the incident in Canada a few years ago when Taylor Mitchell, a young upcoming folk singer, was killed by coyotes. The RMCP spokeswoman said the coyotes were extremely aggressive when authorities arrived on the scene.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8331106.stm
wtmntcaretaker
07-27-2012, 14:28
If you see feral dogs and you are sure they are not a coyote, you should call NH Fish and Game and let them know.
Incahiker
03-08-2013, 17:41
A word of caution to those who let their dogs accompany them in coyote country. Yotes have been known to resist their natural fear of humans to attack domestic animals and will even attempt to bait them into an ambush by other unseen members with playful demonstrations of dog like behavior. If confronted, don't act like prey. Don't run or turn your back on them, and resist them forcefully if necessary.
Very true. I was out with my dog on a hike in a wildlife management area when out of the bushes beside the trail a coyote jumped out right in front of us, looked at my dog, then took off. Well my dog immediately took off after it and I after my dog. As soon as my dog went off the trail 2 other coyotes flanked it but they didn't realize I was beside them gunning it after my dog. I knocked the hell out of one with my hiking stick and it whimpered and left, and the other one then turned it's head and looked at me and about had a heart attack, ran into a small tree, and beamed it the other direction. They do work as a team and if I was not there I am sure my dog would have been lunch. We were out there scouting before a hunt.
Snowleopard
03-08-2013, 21:23
Coyotes in New England are usually a hybrid with wolf and are larger than elsewhere. Over 50 lbs is unusual here.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/02/17/for_coyotes_at_least_study_finds_new_englanders_a_ special_breed/
Coyotes in New England are usually a hybrid with wolf and are larger than elsewhere. Over 50 lbs is unusual here.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/02/17/for_coyotes_at_least_study_finds_new_englanders_a_ special_breed/
Saw a huge coyote crossing the road here recently. It was very healthy and actually quite beautiful in its winter coat. The ones I've seen out west looked very mangy and scraggly by comparison. It had to weigh 50 lbs. It was too tall to have weighed much less.
Kerosene
03-09-2013, 15:25
I ran into a "pack" of smaller dogs just north of Hampton, VA in late October 2008. It was lightly raining and I encountered them running toward me as I crested a small knoll. They immediately turned around and hightailed, but I couldn't figure out where they went as the trail followed a narrow ridge for over a mile.
rocketsocks
03-09-2013, 15:43
Been a long time since I've ran into wild dogs, at least in a pack, last time was down in Trenton, when I was working there, but they were city dogs, there usually more well fed, so not as apt to see what I had.
I guess a rap at the base of a tree with my hard wood hiking stick would deture a dog...Thump!
Blue Mountain Edward
03-09-2013, 15:45
I was followed by a big stray dog for a few miles on the C and O Canal. Wanted to adopt it and bring him home but it stayed 50 feet away from me. If I had some bread I would have fed it. Realy felt sorry for it lost and starving in the woods with swarms of mosquitos biting.
rocketsocks
03-09-2013, 15:49
I was followed by a big stray dog for a few miles on the C and O Canal. Wanted to adopt it and bring him home but it stayed 50 feet away from me. If I had some bread I would have fed it. Realy felt sorry for it lost and starving in the woods with swarms of mosquitos biting.+1 Edward, our family has been taking in strays my whole life, my last two dogs were strays and the other was from a shelter, never a reason to buy a dog from a puppy mill, unless you want a particular breed, or a puppy. jm2c
There are a lot of bear dogs out there.
I had two of them try to mess with my dog (pitbull) on a hike once. Luckily she weighs more than both combined and takes no **** from anything with 4 legs.
staehpj1
04-08-2013, 07:22
That all depends on how habituated they are to humans being present. I commonly get within 50 yards of them on my local trails (but they always do run away when I get close) and the farmer that boards our horses shot two at close range this spring.
They are pretty habituated to humans in some places. I've definitely been within 50 yards of them and they are spotted in people back yards fairly regularly, even inside the city limits of Baltimore. In recent years they seem to have taken over a really wide range, being in all or nearly all of the lower 48 including suburban and even small wild patches in some urban areas.
FatHead64
04-08-2013, 08:34
The picture WOO has put up is with a full winter coat. The animal is thinner and faster than he looks.
+1 at least to this one. First place I worked had a quarry and I was working night shift. Sometimes, on a slow night, we would partrol out through the quarry to make sure things were clear. Once or twice we attempted to chase a coyote. Attempt is the key word - even in a pickup truck, with the rough terrain, the coyote could put on a burst of speed and it was gone, just like that. Just like Jimmy John's, they are freaky fast!
BirdBrain
04-08-2013, 09:03
I will post my ignorant thoughts again. I am open to different opinions. This thread has further encouraged me in my choice to carry bear spray. For the most part, I believe we are the problem when it comes to dangerous animals. Our influence alters their natural behavior. I have seen gentle pit bulls and ugly beagles. A person caused this. None the less, if an aggressive animal comes at me, they are getting sprayed. If it is a dog, they won't be making it out of the woods. I am not saying if I see a dog this would be my 1st thought. My 1st thought would be to look around for the owner. I trapped many years as a young man. If the dog is an overly aggressive threat, it won't be threatening others. Would this encounter be the dog's fault? I don't think so. I am not the Solomon that has the solutions, but people should some how be held accountable for creating abnormal behavior in animals.
This thread reminds me of one day hunting deer with my mother. We were on the same power line. About 7 AM I heard one shot. A little while later I went up to meet her. She was calmly in the spot I left her. I said, "did you get it". She said, "yes, it is over there". I went over to find a dead dog. She let the deer go and shot the dog chasing it. Was it the dog's fault. I don't think so. But none the less, it had to be put down. Who knows how many deer it would have run to death for sport?
Again, I am open to other opinions. I am here to learn. My thoughts have been modified many times on this site by other people with more experience. I am sad to hear these reports. I am happy for the heads up.
Tipi Walter
04-08-2013, 09:06
ive had 1 charge me (just letting me know he was boss:)), another day saw 2 run and hide and on a different day 1 (Freddy) followed me for 37 miles. http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=260878
I had a dog stay with me in the Citico/Slickrock for 9 days before it took off, thankfully. I always had to be wary in camp lest the thing stole my food.
I have encountered a few dogs during my section hikes of the AT and their response to me was somewhat related to if I had my hiking poles in hand. Most dogs seem to figure out that a person with a hiking pole is not to be messed with, while someone without is fair game. I still give them a wide berth even with poles but the dogs usually just put on a show and thats it.
Another good reason to carry an enormous and heavy pack---somewhat like a refrigerator strapped to your back. The dogs will drool and cower, etc, when seeing such an object approach---and run away. Is it a grizzly on hind legs? Is it a small bulldozer? Is it a Frigidaire??
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2008/Camping-with-Cuffs-and-Eman/i-hRz9sJn/0/L/Trip%2076%20002-L.jpg
There are a lot of bear dogs out there.
And this brings up the biggest dog problem I have out in the woods---hunting dogs. They will jump into your tent and claw over your thermarest, they will most certainly steal your food, etc.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/Tipi-Walter-Without-Shunka/i-MrmJPws/0/L/TRIP%20116%20056-L.jpg
Looking down the barrel of a hunting dog. Beware!!! Actually, this guy was friendly, very friendly, like you was his long lost daddy-friendly.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/23-Days-with-Hootyhoo-Sgt-Rock/i-5Rc9JMg/0/L/TRIP%20115%20081-L.jpg
Of all the dogs I've encountered, this was probably the most vicious. Just kidding. I called him Top Gun.
BirdBrain
04-08-2013, 09:11
Nice pictures Tipi. Dogs are awesome. They are precious creatures. They should all be cared for and receive the love they give.
SOBO_Pace
04-08-2013, 10:41
I have encountered a few dogs during my section hikes of the AT and their response to me was somewhat related to if I had my hiking poles in hand. Most dogs seem to figure out that a person with a hiking pole is not to be messed with, while someone without is fair game. I still give them a wide berth even with poles but the dogs usually just put on a show and thats it.
I had a dog charge me in NY by mashipacong (sp) shelter and all but wrapped my hiking pole around the dogs head. The owners were in total shock sitting there with there leash around their neck.
SOLcreature
04-09-2013, 15:05
Remember the incident in Canada a few years ago when Taylor Mitchell, a young upcoming folk singer, was killed by coyotes. The RMCP spokeswoman said the coyotes were extremely aggressive when authorities arrived on the scene.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8331106.stm
Indeed, and as far as I know they showed no signs of rabies in her case either. I am not certain if they were tested, but after that incident people have been warned to be more cautious of the often overlooked coyote. I would imagine one looks especially like a free easy meal if panting and hobbling down a trail in the woods alone about 6000 calories short on fuel ;) Which leaves me to beg the question, does anyone know of any statistics regarding dog/wild dog/coyote related attacks on the AT? Seeing this thread and knowing how aggressive wild dog packs are where I am from, personally I'd say this is definitely better grounds for concern than bears, but if nothing to date has happened, it's highly unlikely.