View Full Version : Which stove?
Turk6177
08-04-2012, 02:08
I own an MSR pocket rocket, made a penny stove, and would consider making a bud light (white box stove) or a cat can stove. In watching videos and conducting my own personal tests, it seems they all boil water within a couple minutes of each other. I guess the cat can is the lightest, but when you add 8 oz. of fuel and a wind screen, it is probably only a few ounces lighter than the MSR stove with a canister. I am trying to understand the benefits of the alcohol stoves beyond the ease of finding fuel. If you were doing just a 10 day hike, which stove would you choose and why? I would like to be rustic and use a stove that I made, however the performance and ease of use of the pocket rocket keeps calling me back as the smart choice. Please enlighten me with perhaps a new way to look at this. I am open to your opinions. Thanks in advance for your input.
RodentWhisperer
08-04-2012, 09:30
For some time, I've wrestled with the idea of making my own alcohol stove (right now I use a SnowPeak GigaPower manual). For me, it's been not an issue of weight/performance. Rather, it's caused me to weigh 1) the availability of fuels vs. 2) the remoteness and duration of my hikes. I think that if I was heading out to a very long, remote hike, with little/no ability to purchase a canister to resupply, I'd be motivated to go with the alcohol stove. (Plus, I've suffered the consequences of using a canister stove in cold weather; so, if I were heading to The Great White North, :-) the alcohol stove would be appealing.)
Alcohol stoves are perfect for the following reasons and assuming the following conditions
1) "Crafts-personship" - you get to make your own item out of (often) recycled material
2) They are the lightest weight stoves available (as far as I know) and you want to go light.
3) Cost - they are cheap to make and if it is lost or damaged, you can just make another
4) It is not winter time or going to be super windy (IMO)
5) You plan on preparing meals and beverages that just require boiling water - no simmering or cooking
6) You like the idea of being able to get denatured alcohol or HEET just about everywhere
Alcohol stoves are inappropriate (IMO) under these circumstances:
1) You are cooking for a group of people (3+)
2) You would like to prepare meals that involve simmering or boiling for a little while
3) You don't mind carrying a little extra weight
4) You have a source to re-supply with camping fuel ("white gas" - a misnomer but you know what I mean) or canisters
5) You are willing to punch a hole in canisters and recycle (which you should do) or send empties back to the manufacturer (a hassle).
6) It is going to be cold and windy and you want a "blow-torch" of a stove to boil water fast and often for lots of beverages, cooking, hot water bottles, etc.
I alternate between a pocket rocket and an alcohol stove in the spring, summer, and early fall. Depending on where I am, I typically go for the pocket-rocket as it gets cooler.
If it is snowy, super cold, and I know I need a reliable, field repairable unit, I carry a MSR Whisperlite International for such missions - - still the standard industry workhorse (IMO)
For a 10 day trip below tree line where there is no fire ban, would use a FireFly wood burner with Esbit tab backup (bring 2 Esbit tabs and my Esbit burner for only 1.25 oz additional weight). An AT section hike is a good example of this scenario.
For 10 day trip above tree line or in fire ban area, would bring a Caldera Cone stove and use Esbit fuel. My fuel weight would be 9 oz (1.75 Esbit tabs per day) to heat 4 cups of water at dinner and 3 cups at breakfast. Hiking the JMT is a good example of this scenario.
These are the stoves I have and use regularly. Other wood burners and other Esbit setups could also be used. If I used alcohol for 10 days, my fuel weight would be nearly double the weight of Esbit, which is why I only use alcohol for shorter trips of a few days.
I use cannister stoves on short hikes or weekenders just for convienience. An alchy stove is a must for me anytime I do a long distance hike. You just can't beat a Super Cat for simplicity. Worrying about cannister availability is a pain in the arse.
Recently I've added a wood burner. I absolutely love my EmberLit EL-Mini. Easy to feed, folds flat, no extra pieces to lose, and bombproof. Clip the whole thing together with a carabiner while transporting if you like.
http://www.emberlit.com/buy.php
Cheers!
I use cannister stoves on short hikes or weekenders just for convienience. An alchy stove is a must for me anytime I do a long distance hike. You just can't beat a Super Cat for simplicity. Worrying about cannister availability is a pain in the arse.
Recently I've added a wood burner. I absolutely love my EmberLit Mini UL. Easy to feed, folds flat, no extra pieces to lose, and bombproof. Clip the whole thing together with a carabiner while transporting if you like.
http://www.emberlit.com/buy.php
Cheers!
Nice - I like it - I have a wood burner made with a coffee can - not as cool as this one - rarely used though
Recently I've added a wood burner. I absolutely love my EmberLit Mini UL. Easy to feed, folds flat, no extra pieces to lose, and bombproof. Clip the whole thing together with a carabiner while transporting if you like.
http://www.emberlit.com/buy.php
Cheers!
AGREED!
I have the Emberlit-UL and it has become my favorite backpacking stove.
For an alcohol burner I like the RUCAS.
Having accumulated several alcohol burners, this one blows the others away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4F8y6nbJE4
For white gas (Coleman fuel),.....it kinda depends on what kind of trip I'm doing.
Have had an Optimus Svea for over 30 years and it still kicks ass. I expect it will still be working when all the others have bit the dust.
http://www.optimusstoves.com/seen/optimus-products/products/katadynshopconnect/optimus-outdoor-kocher/optimus-svea/
BUT,...the Svea requires priming in cold weather. If climbing out of a warm sleeping bag and bracing against the cold with only one thought on my mind,....
COFFEE,....NOW!
I'll take one of the instant light (electric spark), MSR canister (propane) stoves.
It's strictly for coffee.
For long term simmering on a campfire (dried beans) I like placing my Evernew Ti pot on a Purcell Trench Travelers Grill.
http://www.purcelltrench.com/grills.htm
I NEVER eat boil-water-and-pour-in-the-bag stuff.
Always prefer cooking fresh food, cut up potatoes, carrots, celery, sun dried tomatoes, beans, pasta, rice, etc.,....and for that type cooking I'm hooked on the Emberlit.
Turk6177
08-04-2012, 20:26
Thanks for all the input. I am going to be brave and try to use the cat can stove I just made and tested today. I will be with friends who have different commercial stoves so I don't have to fear crunching down some Mac n cheese. Lol
I started out last year with a homemade alcohol stove that had 800 trail miles on it. I found in the cold weather of spring I just couldn't get water hot enough for a good hot meal. In Hot Springs I bought a MSR Pocket Rocket and never had another cold meal. I never really had a hard time finding canisters, one small one would last about 10 days cooking dinners only.
Here is a link to SGT. Rock's web site where he does a very good in depth comparison on different stoves and fuels.
http://hikinghq.net/stoves/weight_time_compare.html
rmitchell
08-05-2012, 18:13
One thing that bugs me about cannister stoves is what do to with a partially used cannister. The very first backpacking stove that I used was a Primus Grasshopper (anyone remember those?). It used a 16 propane cannister as the third leg of a tripod. Fuel for it is the same as a blowtorch, so if I had a semi-used cannister I could use it around the house for plumbing or whatever. Also it is same as used for the Coleman camp stove.
My next stove was a Primus also, a very early version of the pocket rocket style. I still have it but seldom use it. For a week long section I would usually start out carrying not one but two cannisters. One from a previous trip, partially used and a fresh one.
Currently I use a Pepsi can stove that I made. Each trip I just top off my fuel bottle with denatured alcohol and don't have to worry about an extra cannister. I can see how much fuel I have. What is left at the end of the trip I just pour back into the big hardware store container.
I like the idea of a wood burner, but what about soot?
I use an alcohol stove simply because I don't want to listen to that jet engine sound that canister stoves make.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I always know how much fuel is left when using alcohol. It is easy to lite and put out. Fuel is always available. Nobody questions you if you try and travel with it, remember no canisters on a plane
Something I wrote that some people find useful:
http://www.pmags.com/stove-comparison-real-world-use
I like the idea of a wood burner, but what about soot?
I find that the stove itself gets hot enough that the soot is dusty and easy to wipe off with leaves or TP if you like, though in my pack I would still carry it in a bag (or if it folds flat) or envelope just in case. Your pot, on the other hand, will get a kind of sticky black creosote-like coating on the outside (more if you burn pine, less if you burn hardwood twigs). To keep this at bay, I just put the pot in a cozy when I'm eating out of it and leave it in the cozy in my pack. I also dedicate a pot just to wood burning, so I don't have to worry about cleaning this off. Another option for titanium (but not aluminum) pots is to use a fire in your wood burning stove to burn the creosote-like stuff off when the pot is empty.
I would like to be rustic and use a stove that I made, however the performance and ease of use of the pocket rocket keeps calling me back as the smart choice. Please enlighten me with perhaps a new way to look at this. I am open to your opinions. Thanks in advance for your input.
Do according to your preference of ease, use the pocket rocket. You like the performance of it so have at it, go rocket!!!!!
grateful 2
08-08-2012, 20:42
I have tried to buy a RUCAS stove without success. Nothing on ebay. No response to repeated emails. Where can I get one?
AGREED!
I have the Emberlit-UL and it has become my favorite backpacking stove.
For an alcohol burner I like the RUCAS.
Having accumulated several alcohol burners, this one blows the others away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4F8y6nbJE4
For white gas (Coleman fuel),.....it kinda depends on what kind of trip I'm doing.
Have had an Optimus Svea for over 30 years and it still kicks ass. I expect it will still be working when all the others have bit the dust.
http://www.optimusstoves.com/seen/optimus-products/products/katadynshopconnect/optimus-outdoor-kocher/optimus-svea/
BUT,...the Svea requires priming in cold weather. If climbing out of a warm sleeping bag and bracing against the cold with only one thought on my mind,....
COFFEE,....NOW!
I'll take one of the instant light (electric spark), MSR canister (propane) stoves.
It's strictly for coffee.
For long term simmering on a campfire (dried beans) I like placing my Evernew Ti pot on a Purcell Trench Travelers Grill.
http://www.purcelltrench.com/grills.htm
I NEVER eat boil-water-and-pour-in-the-bag stuff.
Always prefer cooking fresh food, cut up potatoes, carrots, celery, sun dried tomatoes, beans, pasta, rice, etc.,....and for that type cooking I'm hooked on the Emberlit.
I have tried to buy a RUCAS stove without success. Nothing on ebay. No response to repeated emails. Where can I get one?
The RUCAS is a White Box Knock-off
Just buy the WBS on ebay or get one from Sarbar
GraniteStater
08-09-2012, 12:25
I use the pocket rocket and have no complaints.
Durtydan
08-09-2012, 17:59
Let's not forget Tinnys great work over at Minibull Designs. Have the Moodoo M6 with a 12 inch imusa pot and it works perfectly as well as breaks down into a cool little beer bottle case.
Now, I did just order an el mini today so I can give wood burning a try but what does everyone do when it's rained for multiple days or is snowy? I get that I can store a few small sticks in my pack when rain is imminent but multiple days of rain would really put a damper(no pun intended) on the cooking situation...looking forward to the more realistic feel of a wood burner though!
I have tried to buy a RUCAS stove without success. Nothing on ebay. No response to repeated emails. Where can I get one?
[email protected]
Try this email. I had a response from him within 20 minutes and the stove was in my hands three days later.
cabbagehead
08-09-2012, 23:53
Those RUCAS stoves look like the stoves I make, except maybe 1 cm wider, and they used a paint stripping chemical. Make sure to paint the stove with a clear engine enamel if it isn't already.
The stoves I make have 24 holes on the sides of diameter 1/32" and cost $7 or $8.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL341B8BC75213BC48
Those RUCAS stoves look like the stoves I make, except maybe 1 cm wider, and they used a paint stripping chemical. Make sure to paint the stove with a clear engine enamel if it isn't already.
The stoves I make have 24 holes on the sides of diameter 1/32" and cost $7 or $8.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL341B8BC75213BC48
Beer Bottle Stoves.....so many designs out there. Here is one you missed and the video shows something interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiQCuUxgHxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=6m5ax6Z6g7Y&feature=endscreen
The Cobalt was designed while I was very active here in the DIY forum. It was made in response to a challenge made by minibulldesign.
The stove is the "Cobalt" it's jets blossom in under 20 seconds. They are available on ebay being sold by my son for $7.50. They are a one piece stove and have the original protective ink coating.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COBALT-ALCOHOL-STOVE-BACKPACKING-HIKING-CAMPING-SURVIVAL-/140822396587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c9ab3eab
The stove is also available at my online store:
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/cobalt.php
cabbagehead
08-10-2012, 18:03
Here are some problems I have with these demonstrations:
- There's no reason to use a stove in water. If the ground is wet, place the stove on an upside down can. All alcohol stoves will be less efficient when in contact with a heat conducting surface.
- You should hover your pot 3" (or a little more) above the stove while it primes, so you can cook while the stove is priming.
- These stoves are meant to have a pot on them (after they prime) because they're "pot pressurized stoves".
The point of that demonstration, i think, is not the wetness, but the conductive heat loss. The demonstration simulates cold ground. Placing the stove on a can will still suffer from the coldness of the ground, as will any bark, ir rock or whatever is available as it will be the same temp.
The pressurized stoves, whether pot pressure, penny pressure or whatevs look cool but are fuel wasters. The might get ya to a boil a few seconds faster but at a cost of fuel grams (the grams add up rather quick on a long hike). I have more time in the bush than I do alcohol. Everyone has their own favorite stove for whatever reasons they feel are most important. BYOS (Burn Your Own Stove) In the end its all fire.
cabbagehead
08-10-2012, 20:02
An upside down can creates an air pocket. When the stove is put on top, it is well insulated from the ground by that air pocket. Dry wood is also a good insulator, but you have to make sure that it's an isolated wood surface that won't start a dangerous fire if an accident occurs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7ySI-WYe_Y
First, even dry wood will be the same temp as the ambient temp, which is likely to be sub zero. Again, the point was not that it won't work. It was a comparison between the two stoves.
I have been using alcohol stoves for a number of years, have a box of many different designs. Each year I seem to get a chance to use one at a lower temperature than before. This past winter was -22*F. Yes that is a negative. I am sure it is Not a record by any means, but I do know what i am talking about.
BTW, if you send me some data, I can run efficiency numbers for you. Efficiency defined as heat potential from fuel transferred to temperature change of water. Let me know if you want me to do a run.
grateful 2
08-10-2012, 20:51
He finally got in contact with me through email and I ordered one. We shall see . . .
I have tried to buy a RUCAS stove without success. Nothing on ebay. No response to repeated emails. Where can I get one?
He finally got in contact with me through email and I ordered one. We shall see . . .
Good deal! I think you'll like it.
The guy is a little unorthodox in his marketing strategy,....like he has no clue about it. ;)
But for my money his stove rocks. I have a drawer full of alchy burners,....some expensive titanium ones, etc. and the RUCAS blows them away.
Personal opinion of course, but I think it's also the nicest looking one.
I have no connection with the maker and it's no sweat off my burners whether he sells them or not. Truth is, the Emberlit-UL is my favorite cook stove. But for alchy, it's hard to beat the RUCAS. :)
cabbagehead
08-11-2012, 14:22
I forgot to post the page where people have been giving me comments about the stoves I make.
http://www.facebook.com/BottleStovescom?ref=hl
But for alchy, it's hard to beat the RUCAS. :)
I'll send you a free Cobalt stove to try. I think you'll agree that it's better than the RUCAS once you've tried it.
Send me a PM if you would like one.
bear bag hanger
08-13-2012, 08:05
After watching someone blow up a canister during a hike last spring, I'm kind of scared of them. A good alcohol stove is a little slower, but not nearly as destructive if it blows up.
cabbagehead
08-14-2012, 23:47
First, even dry wood will be the same temp as the ambient temp, which is likely to be sub zero. Again, the point was not that it won't work. It was a comparison between the two stoves.
I have been using alcohol stoves for a number of years, have a box of many different designs. Each year I seem to get a chance to use one at a lower temperature than before. This past winter was -22*F. Yes that is a negative. I am sure it is Not a record by any means, but I do know what i am talking about.
All I was saying is that the stoves were compaired in conditions they should never be used in. The comparison is invalid.
All I was saying is that the stoves were compaired in conditions they should never be used in. The comparison is invalid.
I understood you. I acknowledge the conditions were not real-life, however I countered that the conditions simulated a specific outdoor condition while controlling for other variables. This is how laboratories conduct experiments to determine effects of single variables, they use simulations. Thus I disagreed that the comparison is invalid for the reason you stated.
I'll send you a free Cobalt stove to try. I think you'll agree that it's better than the RUCAS once you've tried it.
Send me a PM if you would like one.
Well,.....how can I resist a deal like that !?
PM sent.
But,...I'll tell you what,.....I don't ask for free stuff. When I recommend a product it means I paid for it with my own money and would do so again.
If it works better than the RUCAS I'll send you a check AND get on here and tell everybody about it.
Well,.....how can I resist a deal like that !?
PM sent.
But,...I'll tell you what,.....I don't ask for free stuff. When I recommend a product it means I paid for it with my own money and would do so again.
If it works better than the RUCAS I'll send you a check AND get on here and tell everybody about it.
I'm sending it out tomorrow and I said it was FREE. You didn't ask me for a stove. If you find that you don't like it, get on this thread and let eveyone know what you didn't like about.
Longstrike
08-27-2012, 21:32
It's important to point out that alcohol stoves can have problems in cold areas and are far from windproof. The alcohol needs to vaporize to light and if the cold or wind prevents you from getting to the fumes you will have a rough time.
It's important to point out that alcohol stoves can have problems in cold areas and are far from windproof. The alcohol needs to vaporize to light and if the cold or wind prevents you from getting to the fumes you will have a rough time.
In the ultra cold, use a wick based stove, like zelph's fancee feest or starlyte. I have used both in subzero temps with no problem whatsoever. Not all stoves are this easy to use in the ultracold. Wind, of course, if definitely an issue hence the use of a windscreen with all alcohol stoves.
In the ultra cold, use a wick based stove, like zelph's fancee feest or starlyte. I have used both in subzero temps with no problem whatsoever. Not all stoves are this easy to use in the ultracold. Wind, of course, if definitely an issue hence the use of a windscreen with all alcohol stoves.
Thanks Russ. Here is a couple of videos to show how the Super Stove lights in cold breezy conditions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvsKmUksF5w&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0FrMBLcrM
I'll see if I can find the video made up in MN a few years back using the StarLyte to thaw out a frozen car door latch.
I can't imagine using an alcohol or esbit stove without a caldera cone.
Different Socks
08-28-2012, 00:02
I have always used an MSR Whisperlite b/c I like to be able to simmer, boil, fry, blast the flame, bake and a few other things. Seems the only thing you can do with an alky stove is boil water.
Love it when I take a Bakepacker with me and make cake, brownies, muffins, corn bread and even pizza and the other hikers are eating pop tarts!
I can't imagine using an alcohol or esbit stove without a caldera cone.
The Caldera Cone is primarilly a windscreen and all alcohol stoves should be used with a windscreen.
bushcraft
09-02-2012, 22:25
I use cannister stoves on short hikes or weekenders just for convienience. An alchy stove is a must for me anytime I do a long distance hike. You just can't beat a Super Cat for simplicity. Worrying about cannister availability is a pain in the arse.
Recently I've added a wood burner. I absolutely love my EmberLit EL-Mini. Easy to feed, folds flat, no extra pieces to lose, and bombproof. Clip the whole thing together with a carabiner while transporting if you like.
http://www.emberlit.com/buy.php
Cheers!
That is neat! I have to purchase that and try it out.
I have the Stratus TrailStove - http://www.trailstove.com/
And have the Clikstand Titanium - http://www.emergencyoutdoors.com/stoves-clikstand-appalachian-titanium-combo-titanium-stove-p-69.html
Both work great, the Clikstand is a bit more portable and you can use wood to cook with as well.
Mountain Mike
09-03-2012, 00:09
Not in current lw hikers but still love my MSR wisperlite or simmerlte. I am not the norm where I like to ake real coffee & cook real meals. I will make a pizza on middle of long resupply & take real veggies for first few days. It all is a matter of what you want & what works for you!
rjhouser
09-03-2012, 00:11
Cat can. The MSR will shoot your eye out.
Mountain Mike
09-03-2012, 00:18
Hard making a pizza or brownies/cake with a cat can. Like I said to each his own
Hard making a pizza or brownies/cake with a cat can. Like I said to each his own
I am sure the brownies are nice in the backcountry, and if offered I am not going to refuse, but if I am hiking all day...making pizza ain't exactly on my mind. ;)
Brownies and pizza? Those are two words I wouldn't come up with on a hiking word association test!
Maybe on a hiking to get to a campsite or something.
bushcraft
09-03-2012, 10:25
Brownies and pizza? Those are two words I wouldn't come up with on a hiking word association test!
Haha my thoughts exactly!
Maybe on a hiking to get to a campsite or something.
Yeah, if I was doing base-camp style backpacking, for sure. But even if base-camp style backpacking, I am hiking (or climbing as is the case with base camp style trips I've done ) all day. One poster above complained about all an alchie stove can do is boil water. Well, yeah.... That's all I need it do. :)
cabbagehead
09-15-2012, 22:53
Aside from the lightness (which is considerably less than white gas/canister stoves), alcohol stoves go out on their own (allowing for easier multitasking).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ob4A1pe3L8
mamamiapdx
10-11-2012, 22:27
I use batchz stovez, they are pretty good.
cabbagehead
10-12-2012, 19:37
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL341B8BC75213BC48&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL341B8BC75213BC48&feature=plcp
This video might be of help for those of you that may want to slow the bottle stove down a bit. Read the comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPzGd7UNhck&feature=relmfu
Starchild
10-14-2012, 18:18
While this thread is still active I now add my $0.02.
I started with the Vargo Ti stove at 1.3 oz, added a very thin (made of 2 soda cans sides) windscreen and the famous 4-point-something ounce 'grease pot' (try beating that weight with Ti - it ain't happening) along with a Al pot holder. Packing up for a 3 day backpack with the fuel it came to 15.7 oz. Then I weighted the Jetboil Ti Sol with full fuel canister and it came to exactly the same 15.7 oz.
My decision was made right there, Jetboil = easier, safer (cook in tent), faster (get on the trail earlier = more miles) hot coffee in the AM, 6-8 days per canister and for the same weight. Sure Alcohol will deplete faster and weight less, though past 3 days out I start with a weight advantage with the Jetboil over the alcohol stove. And if worse comes to worse and I can't find fuel for the Jetboil, for the price of 2 soda/beer cans or roadside gathering I can make a stove that burns alcohol to get me by very nicely, for the price of one soda/beer can I still can get by using alcohol fuel till I can get a canister and using the jetboil pot with the heat exchanger even increases the efficiency of a trailmade alcohol stove.
+1 to Starchild...i love my jetboil. do all my cooking with it. though the pizzas and brownies have proven quite difficult...