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View Full Version : Not a cell phone user or an owner of one, but would like an honest answer............



Different Socks
08-12-2012, 02:23
Everywhere I go it seems as if people are addicted to their cell phones. At work tonight we got into a heated debate about why there exists the necessity, habit, obligation to check your messages or read the the latest text or make a call.
So I told several of them how annoyed I would be if a hiker/backpacker had one too often in their hands or to their ear and I was anywhere nearby. And I offered to get some hiking audience feedback.
So, on the AT, to what degree would you allow yourself to get to before becoming annoyed or bothered by someone using their cell phone? What would be considered too often? Would once every night be okay? Would you ask them to step away from the campsite/shelter? Would you consider then to be rude if they did indeed use it too often? Ya know, like taking it out at viewpoints to call people and say "Guess where I am?".

My view of this situation is this: I don't care if you bring a cell, but don't carry it so there is convenient access. Don't pull it out at viewpoints, river crossings, animal sightings(except rare ones), every rest stop, on boring sections of trail, during long bouts of bad weather, at your campsite/shelter, and please don't look at it every hour just to see if anyone has tried to contact you. There are good reasons why you are out there, and one of the strongest was to get away from phones!!
Would I carry one on the trail? Yes, for safety, the ability to call a PO if I am running behind, to call my pick up at a road crossing, or to order that pizza at the Partnership Shelter. Other than that, it stays in the bottom of my pack.

So please, give me your honest and forthright answer to this.

Kryptonite
08-12-2012, 02:41
You have asked for us to be brutally honest here, my friend. By your own admission, you are the one who is out of sync here in that almost everyone has a cell phone. Do I think that others should be pulling it out in shelters or camp? No. But certainly there should be no problem if they step away from the camp. But I can think of a lot more rude actions on the trail than this.

You need to realize that many people are using their phones as cameras, getting weather updates, running a business, staying in touch with a grandchild, handling problems at home when the waterline freezes, etc. Some hikers want to share great views with their families and will send a picture to their wife and then call. It's a way to stay connected. It is a HYOH atmosphere and some people would not think twice about parties with booze and weed at camp or in the shelters or church groups giving sermons. In the whole scheme of everything, a cell phone shouldn't be a big deal. If it is, don't hike with a group or stay in a shelter or camp. Problem virtually solved.

silverscuba22
08-12-2012, 02:46
Well, i have a basic phone, not one of those fancy 4g, smart phone things.... and i would call home and what not at night.. as long as the person wasnt talking loud at all hours of the night i wouldnt think it was an issue.... and there is NO way you could ask them to leave unless the were being really really loud. i never had an issue becuase i always tented, so if someone was being rude with the phone i could always get away to my own personal space, but i never saw it as an issue

MuddyWaters
08-12-2012, 02:48
Ive found most people step away to make calls, which I appreciate.

I dont have to worry about it because I dont get

I am very put off by people that keep theirs in their hand all the time. At my kids football practice, parents lined up in chairs, most have a phone in their hand like a teenage girl. Granted, they are bored, but really, bring a book. In airports, EVERYONE does. Its unbelievable, they also have to stay plugged in to recharge. I find it quite pathetic. I also find it repulsive to have to listen to their conversations there.

moocow
08-12-2012, 02:50
i don't think i mind it as long as they have it on vibrate or silence. I will admit it was really annoying to hear a ringer go off just down the ridge when I thought I was alone. But that's only happened a few times. I respect people's rights to use their phones as their modern day camera, maps/gps, guide book all-in-one unit. and if they're looking down and see that someone sent a message and they want to reply, see what I care. But if I'm at a shelter and someone is yaking away or I wake up because the early bird decided that they wanted to use their phone as a 4:30 wake up call, that's my fault for seeking peace and solitude at a public place.

SCRUB HIKER
08-12-2012, 03:53
You have asked for us to be brutally honest here, my friend. By your own admission, you are the one who is out of sync here in that almost everyone has a cell phone. Do I think that others should be pulling it out in shelters or camp? No. But certainly there should be no problem if they step away from the camp. But I can think of a lot more rude actions on the trail than this.

You need to realize that many people are using their phones as cameras, getting weather updates, running a business, staying in touch with a grandchild, handling problems at home when the waterline freezes, etc. Some hikers want to share great views with their families and will send a picture to their wife and then call. It's a way to stay connected. It is a HYOH atmosphere and some people would not think twice about parties with booze and weed at camp or in the shelters or church groups giving sermons. In the whole scheme of everything, a cell phone shouldn't be a big deal. If it is, don't hike with a group or stay in a shelter or camp. Problem virtually solved.

Couldn't say it better myself. Last year I carried a dumphone, a point-and-shoot digital camera, and an iPod. Now I have a smartphone and now when I go on hikes (and especially when I try the PCT next year), I'm going to be carrying that smartphone and using the bejaysus out of it because it combines all three functions. It saves me a pound in pack weight. I could have it out and on at a viewpoint for any number of reasons. It's always in my hipbelt pocket.

The OP says: "There are good reasons why you are out there, and one of the strongest was to get away from phones!!" Not true. That's YOUR hike, not mine. People have different reasons for going on hikes. On a long-distance trail, especially the AT, most people aren't out there with the explicit goal of removing themselves from society. Sometimes people get lonely. Sometimes you do what you gotta do to keep loved ones happy. I hiked with a guy for a while last year who called his girlfriend every night that he had cell service (we were in the Mid-Atlantic, so that was every night). They talked for two or three minutes about their days, said I love you and that was it. My girlfriend and I only needed to talk once a week to keep each other happy, but what was I going to say to my friend? "Stop using your cell phone so d--- much, you don't need it"? Of course not. That would be pretty presumptuous of me.

Roughly the same cell phone etiquette from town life applies on trail: namely, don't talk loudly into your phone around other people. Remove yourself or cut off the convo in those situations. All other issues of cell phone usage--how often and for what purpose--are entirely up to the individual, and I fail to see why/how they should matter to anyone else.

Different Socks, you're quite an outlier by now if you still don't own a cell phone. It's completely fine with me that you don't (I have a friend, 24 years old like me, who didn't have one until a year ago), but it doesn't sound like you understand them very well. The mere sight of them in the woods disrupts you--as opposed to me, where I don't even notice them until someone is using one in a pretty inconsiderate manner. I think that, basically, you should get used to seeing cell phones out and in use, and not trouble yourself with how other people are using them. If you find that you can't overcome your own annoyance at their presence--and I'd be lying if I said there weren't harmless things about other people that really grate on me for no reason--then choose new places to camp and hike. Better for everyone that way.

WingedMonkey
08-12-2012, 06:58
It comes down to manners. If I can hear you talkng or your ring tone, you ain't got none.

Maddog
08-12-2012, 07:25
Everywhere I go it seems as if people are addicted to their cell phones. At work tonight we got into a heated debate about why there exists the necessity, habit, obligation to check your messages or read the the latest text or make a call.
So I told several of them how annoyed I would be if a hiker/backpacker had one too often in their hands or to their ear and I was anywhere nearby. And I offered to get some hiking audience feedback.
So, on the AT, to what degree would you allow yourself to get to before becoming annoyed or bothered by someone using their cell phone? What would be considered too often? Would once every night be okay? Would you ask them to step away from the campsite/shelter? Would you consider then to be rude if they did indeed use it too often? Ya know, like taking it out at viewpoints to call people and say "Guess where I am?".

My view of this situation is this: I don't care if you bring a cell, but don't carry it so there is convenient access. Don't pull it out at viewpoints, river crossings, animal sightings(except rare ones), every rest stop, on boring sections of trail, during long bouts of bad weather, at your campsite/shelter, and please don't look at it every hour just to see if anyone has tried to contact you. There are good reasons why you are out there, and one of the strongest was to get away from phones!!
Would I carry one on the trail? Yes, for safety, the ability to call a PO if I am running behind, to call my pick up at a road crossing, or to order that pizza at the Partnership Shelter. Other than that, it stays in the bottom of my pack.

So please, give me your honest and forthright answer to this.
"Hahk your own hahk." - Ron Haven

Old Hiker
08-12-2012, 07:38
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomophobia

http://www.nomophobia.com/

moytoy
08-12-2012, 08:06
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomophobia

http://www.nomophobia.com/

Hiking long distance may become the first step to resolve this problem. To me hiking is all about being independant.

Sometimes it's necessary to make or receive a phone call in public. If possible I think it's good manners to move to someplace more private to finish the conversation. If not possible to move then the conversation should be concise and to the point and low key.

On the trail the same rules should apply. Nobody wants to hear chatty matty talking to his pals. If somebody wants to use there smartphone to journel or check e-mail etc. that doesn't bother me. I can easily block that out.

moytoy
08-12-2012, 08:07
there>their yada yada

Spokes
08-12-2012, 08:24
What's the difference between this discussion about cell phone use in shelters and say others snoring? Would you ask them to leave? Some people don't like to see others cook inside a shelter...... The list goes on and on.

I say if being around other hikers is that frustrating stay at home and watch the Housewives of Orange County.

gunner76
08-12-2012, 08:30
Some people are addicted to them, like chewing gum, smoking, hiking

coach lou
08-12-2012, 08:41
I've never read Mr. Kazynski's Manifesto, but I have been to Lincoln , Montana. I'm not sure if they have service. The last few years, I've had service all over Jellystone! If I wasn't married [again] I wouldn't take it with me.

moytoy
08-12-2012, 08:43
What's the difference between this discussion about cell phone use in shelters and say others snoring? Would you ask them to leave? Some people don't like to see others cook inside a shelter...... The list goes on and on.



Being confrontational over something like talking on a cell phone is just as rude if not more so than the talking. And will not resolve anything. IMHO
It's not an issue with me because I always have the ability to move on.

Nutbrown
08-12-2012, 09:14
It comes down to manners. If I can hear you talkng or your ring tone, you ain't got none.

So do you think hikers having a conversation that you can hear is bad manners?

Cell phones are a fact of life, on and off the trail. Most cell users I have encountered respect the silence when it should be respected.

I have heard that local gov'ts are trying to ban things like walking and txting because too many people are walking in front of buses or into scaffolding and getting hurt. Wonder when the first person will accidentally walk off a cliff because they were txting about how beautiful it is...

WingedMonkey
08-12-2012, 09:22
So do you think hikers having a conversation that you can hear is bad manners?

Yes, if it as loud. Despite what most cell phone addicts claim, they do do talk in normal levels on phones.

All loud noise in the woods is rude. Actually about anywhere.

Spokes
08-12-2012, 09:30
......
All loud noise in the woods is rude. Actually about anywhere.

It's all relevant.

I don't consider the sound of the rocket engine that launched the Mars Curiosity Rover rude. Or, the whooping and hollering of someone reaching the summit of Mt. Katahdin rude. It got pretty loud up there when I was there. And I was trying to take a nap before heading back down too. :)

moldy
08-12-2012, 09:33
Cell phone annoyance is not much of a problem on the trail. I suppose the lack of signal and battery is what keeps the people who are addicted communicators from yaking on it all day. They also tend to use them for outgoing calls so it's rare to hear one go off. It's a quality of life as well as a security issue to have a phone. I have noticed that phoneless long distance hikers tend to borrow my phone. I view the phone as a handy tool like a compass or guidebook. Back 35 years ago I, and many others tended to be highly annoyed with transistor radios in shelters. There were signs posted in shelters telling people with those new fangled radios to be considerate. Dude you need to get a cell phone, join with the collective, resistance is futile. (so say's the Borg)

Pedaling Fool
08-12-2012, 09:35
So do you think hikers having a conversation that you can hear is bad manners?

Cell phones are a fact of life, on and off the trail. Most cell users I have encountered respect the silence when it should be respected.

I have heard that local gov'ts are trying to ban things like walking and txting because too many people are walking in front of buses or into scaffolding and getting hurt. Wonder when the first person will accidentally walk off a cliff because they were txting about how beautiful it is...


Yes, if it as loud. Despite what most cell phone addicts claim, they do do talk in normal levels on phones.

All loud noise in the woods is rude. Actually about anywhere.

I kind of see both of your posts. On one level people sitting around talking is ok, but someone talking on a phone is annoying. I generally agree that people talk a little louder on the phone, but then again there are people that are just loud and talk loud, even with people right next to them.

I've found that people talking on the cell in public use to really bother people, but it doesn't anymore. I remember it use to catch my attention, but not really anymore.

It still bothers me out in the woods, but what ya goin' to do? It's not illegal and there is no enforcement of etiquette. Yeah, you can try, but this is something that ain't going away. Technology changes our behavior, both on a personal level and as a cultural. Us old fuddy duddies just need to step aside and allow the new blood to take over.

I like technology, but I'm kind of old fashioned about it out in the woods. But there ain't no goin' back, the woods are changin'; nothing we can do about it.
:)

Spokes
08-12-2012, 09:35
Open the pod door HAL.......

I'm afraid I can't do that Dave.....

atmilkman
08-12-2012, 09:45
there>their yada yada
They're>there. Nothing you can do about it except don't be there when they're there.

WingedMonkey
08-12-2012, 09:58
Or, the whooping and hollering of someone reaching the summit of Mt. Katahdin rude. It got pretty loud up there when I was there.

I realize more every year how fortunate I was to summit alone. I was even lucky enough to summit the start at Springer alone and in silence. I doubt I could ever be that blessed again.

Lonely people seem to despise silence, and will do anything to avoid it.

atmilkman
08-12-2012, 10:01
Lonely people seem to despise silence, and will do anything to avoid it.
They're scared of the boogers. You know there's boogers out there don't ya?

Saprogenic
08-12-2012, 10:28
LIVE AND LET LIVE. Who the **** cares what others do with their phones? If they want to look like idiots heaving their phone attached to their hands, and have the need to twist around to keep the phone charged, that's their problem. Why do people feel the need to change everyone else into doing like they do?
And why does another thread need to be started for the sole reason to bash others?
Get off your high horse. If someone near you is bigging you with their phone use, MOVE! If it's a friend I might tease once in a while, but really I could care less.

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 10:40
You have asked for us to be brutally honest here, my friend. By your own admission, you are the one who is out of sync here in that almost everyone has a cell phone. Do I think that others should be pulling it out in shelters or camp? No. But certainly there should be no problem if they step away from the camp. But I can think of a lot more rude actions on the trail than this.

You need to realize that many people are using their phones as cameras, getting weather updates, running a business, staying in touch with a grandchild, handling problems at home when the waterline freezes, etc. Some hikers want to share great views with their families and will send a picture to their wife and then call. It's a way to stay connected. It is a HYOH atmosphere and some people would not think twice about parties with booze and weed at camp or in the shelters or church groups giving sermons. In the whole scheme of everything, a cell phone shouldn't be a big deal. If it is, don't hike with a group or stay in a shelter or camp. Problem virtually solved.

One of the good reasons I do not have a cell phone is b/c I am HOH(hard of hearing). The speaker does a great job of my being able to use one, but I wouldn't want to annoy anyone else by using it. As for using it as a camera, that is fine. I realize that that is one reason they would have it out at great views, but why do people find it necessary to pull it out to talk to others and let them know what a great view it is? That is one of the situations I think is inappropriate.
If and when I do get my cell phone, I hope I do not become addicted to it as I have seen others to be. I mean, if people know you are on vacation to get away from it all, why would they be calling you?

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 10:44
What's the difference between this discussion about cell phone use in shelters and say others snoring? Would you ask them to leave? Some people don't like to see others cook inside a shelter...... The list goes on and on.

I say if being around other hikers is that frustrating stay at home and watch the Housewives of Orange County.

Snoring, they cannot help themselves. So I sleep on the other side of the shelter from them, plus it is a positive effect of HOH. People have to eat, so cooking is a necessity, Where would you suggest they set up their stove?
But answering a cell phone is a choice.

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 10:46
LIVE AND LET LIVE. Who the **** cares what others do with their phones? If they want to look like idiots heaving their phone attached to their hands, and have the need to twist around to keep the phone charged, that's their problem. Why do people feel the need to change everyone else into doing like they do?
And why does another thread need to be started for the sole reason to bash others?
Get off your high horse. If someone near you is bigging you with their phone use, MOVE! If it's a friend I might tease once in a while, but really I could care less.

Not asking people to change in the post, just asking what others think. Got some anger issues?

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 10:49
I realize more every year how fortunate I was to summit alone. I was even lucky enough to summit the start at Springer alone and in silence. I doubt I could ever be that blessed again.

Lonely people seem to despise silence, and will do anything to avoid it.

AMEN!!! I would like a few others with me, but not a crowd. The silence is nice isn't it? Was on top of Jay Peak on the Long Trail and this one dude just kept walking back and forth yakking on his cell. I just wanted to grab it and throw it into the trees!

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 10:53
Yes, if it as loud. Despite what most cell phone addicts claim, they do do talk in normal levels on phones.

All loud noise in the woods is rude. Actually about anywhere.

I agree! I am not gonna have the idea in my head that I can/should move down the trail just b/c they wish to talk into a communication device.

Saprogenic
08-12-2012, 10:55
Not asking people to change in the post, just asking what others think. Got some anger issues?

It seems like everytime I visit to see if there's maybe a new trick to learn or something, the page is full of, " why don't other people act exactly like me?" threads, and you can't deny it.

Pedaling Fool
08-12-2012, 10:59
Not asking people to change in the post, just asking what others think. Got some anger issues?
As I said earlier, it really doesn't matter what people think about it. It's a part of the trail experience now, there ain't no going back. I also find it annoying, but what can you do. Today's youth don't see it as we do, it's a generational thing, in large part. It's evolution in action. We are moving further and further away from living a basic life. It all started with the invention of clothes:)

Water Rat
08-12-2012, 11:01
AMEN!!! I would like a few others with me, but not a crowd. The silence is nice isn't it? Was on top of Jay Peak on the Long Trail and this one dude just kept walking back and forth yakking on his cell. I just wanted to grab it and throw it into the trees!

Thanks for making me laugh! I have definitely been there! Oh, if only the cell phone users knew how close they came to losing their phones...

All that, and I am not a violent person. It is just a matter of people putting their needs first. It's like any other behavior (partying in shelters, standing upwind of others when smoking, pooping in the middle of the trail) on the trail that could impact the hike of others. If ya need to do it, don't make everyone else have to deal with it. Others are other there to enjoy nature, too. Don't let your hike have an impact on theirs. Just another form of LNT (on the hikes of others).

People just need to be more considerate of others. That goes for in towns and out on the trails.

hobby
08-12-2012, 11:03
They're>there.


They're scared of the boogers. You know there's boogers out there don't ya?

yes they're there, but they're theirs

Wise Old Owl
08-12-2012, 11:03
Different Socks - Krytonite has a great answer here and I will just add - if I was sitting in a shelter and whipped out a newspaper or book - my phone is just that - I have a local, city wide , the Guardian, and Sydneys newspaper in mine + Kindle. with reference books. Oh and Time Magazine... News -Weather Radar......


Got to go... shelter mouse time....

Saprogenic
08-12-2012, 11:08
People just need to be more considerate of others. That goes for in towns and out on the trails.

I honestly don't think it'll happen. The younger people get, the more obsessed they are with how they look or if they own the latest electronics. I've also noticed at least around here, they boys are acting more like girls. I remember being tough and not afraid to get dirty. No one ran to mommy crying because their feelings were hurt like today.
****, you think the phones are bad, at least they make an effort to get outdoors, most kids/people today sit on the couch all day playing video games.

Water Rat
08-12-2012, 11:12
I honestly don't think it'll happen. The younger people get, the more obsessed they are with how they look or if they own the latest electronics. I've also noticed at least around here, they boys are acting more like girls. I remember being tough and not afraid to get dirty. No one ran to mommy crying because their feelings were hurt like today.
****, you think the phones are bad, at least they make an effort to get outdoors, most kids/people today sit on the couch all day playing video games.

I totally agree. Makes me sad to think how "soft" our society has become.

Water Rat
08-12-2012, 11:14
It's one thing to use a phone in a quiet manner (in the outdoors). It's a completely different ballgame when they start yammering away, yelling to make sure the other person can hear them.

Saprogenic
08-12-2012, 11:27
It's one thing to use a phone in a quiet manner (in the outdoors). It's a completely different ballgame when they start yammering away, yelling to make sure the other person can hear them.

My roomate is like this. He is constantly on his phone.
At night watching an awesome action-packed new movie, his eyes are on his phone.
In the car, looking at the phone.
Five seconds go by without some major entertainment, phone comes out.
I tease him all of the time and he just chuckles and keeps on going with the phone.
We'll be hunting, whether in the stand/blind, or stalking, he's always on the damn phone. That can get annoying I'll admit. You can't leave your friend, but you can bust his balls.
The funny thing is I'm only 26 but he's 42! and he's the one on the phone where I'm constanly leaving mine at home when I go out.

Saprogenic
08-12-2012, 11:30
My electronic entertainment is looking at outdoors websites on my computer, trying to soak up anything new I can. Maybe get an idea of a cool new place to hike.

Water Rat
08-12-2012, 11:39
My roomate is like this. He is constantly on his phone.
At night watching an awesome action-packed new movie, his eyes are on his phone.
In the car, looking at the phone.
Five seconds go by without some major entertainment, phone comes out.
I tease him all of the time and he just chuckles and keeps on going with the phone.
We'll be hunting, whether in the stand/blind, or stalking, he's always on the damn phone. That can get annoying I'll admit. You can't leave your friend, but you can bust his balls.
The funny thing is I'm only 26 but he's 42! and he's the one on the phone where I'm constanly leaving mine at home when I go out.

I wonder what a treatment program would look like? How would one gently wean someone from waiting for their phone to ring?

Your posting about your friend watching the phone, waiting for it to ring...Made me think of Lab salivating, and waiting for the tennis ball to be thrown. :)

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 11:49
As I said earlier, it really doesn't matter what people think about it. It's a part of the trail experience now, there ain't no going back. I also find it annoying, but what can you do. Today's youth don't see it as we do, it's a generational thing, in large part. It's evolution in action. We are moving further and further away from living a basic life. It all started with the invention of clothes:)

I do know that I have to put up with it, but that is the problem. Just b/c it's become more of the norm, doesn't mean that it is right or should be considered acceptable.
Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess when i go back to my co-workers I'll be telling them that it is too much of a socially acceptable norm and I will have to deal with it by walking away, ignoring it or accepting it.

Saprogenic
08-12-2012, 11:51
I wonder what a treatment program would look like? How would one gently wean someone from waiting for their phone to ring?

Your posting about your friend watching the phone, waiting for it to ring...Made me think of Lab salivating, and waiting for the tennis ball to be thrown. :)

That's funny, a modern electronics rehab.
I still remember when I was a kid, you'd get home from school and call up your friends with house phones. If they already went out or took a friends bus home, you'd have to go out and look for him, or make new plans and that was that. Wonder what kids today would do w/o them? I've seen kids who can barely talk owning cell phones.

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 11:53
I honestly don't think it'll happen. The younger people get, the more obsessed they are with how they look or if they own the latest electronics. I've also noticed at least around here, they boys are acting more like girls. I remember being tough and not afraid to get dirty. No one ran to mommy crying because their feelings were hurt like today.
****, you think the phones are bad, at least they make an effort to get outdoors, most kids/people today sit on the couch all day playing video games.

True! Very true. When I see a family out on the trail, I tell the parents what a great idea it was to get them out there.

Water Rat
08-12-2012, 11:54
I can just see it now! "But, I have to send just one more text!" Please?! It'll be the last one, I swear!!

Hmmm... A reality show on the treatment program for cell phone addicts... The title? "Guess You Can't Hear Me Now..."

I remember rotary dial phones. Do ya think kids today even know what those look like? :)

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 11:56
Going to the Beartooths for 4 days of mtn peaking, see ya all later. Looking forward to the new posts when I get back. Hoping weather is good for a hike to Sunset Peak to watch a sunset.

Water Rat
08-12-2012, 11:57
Going to the Beartooths for 4 days of mtn peaking, see ya all later. Looking forward to the new posts when I get back. Hoping weather is good for a hike to Sunset Peak to watch a sunset.

Have a great hike! Look forward to hearing about it when ya get back!

Kryptonite
08-12-2012, 12:05
Different Socks - If you had a phone, we'd text you. :sun

atmilkman
08-12-2012, 12:08
I remember rotary dial phones. Do ya think kids today even know what those look like? :)
Reminds me of when my niece got up in the attic and found some old Lps and came down all excited and wanted to know if we could play these big cds. And my friends little grandbaby watching a black and white tv show saying paw paw there's something seriously wrong with this tv as innocent as he could be.

Pathfinder1
08-12-2012, 12:13
Saprogenic;
My roomate is like this. He is constantly on his phone.
At night watching an awesome action-packed new movie, his eyes are on his phone.
In the car, looking at the phone.
Five seconds go by without some major entertainment, phone comes out.
I tease him all of the time and he just chuckles and keeps on going with the phone.
We'll be hunting, whether in the stand/blind, or stalking, he's always on the damn phone. That can get annoying I'll admit. You can't leave your friend, but you can bust his balls.
The funny thing is I'm only 26 but he's 42! and he's the one on the phone where I'm constanly leaving mine at home when I go out.


Hi...


I'm getting the impression that he likes his cell phone more than he likes you...!!

If he would use his cell phone in MY stand, blind or stalking, I'd soon be waving bye-bye to him as he was limping away...!!

Skyline
08-12-2012, 12:19
Well, I finally joined the '90s in 2010 by getting a basic cell phone. It was so I could stay in touch with clients while my second home in Delaware was being built. It was the only feasible way to make the business and second home happen without pissing off a lot of clients.

I have refrained from using the cell phone in the woods. I've carried it as a "backup plan," but never used it. Out of curiosity, I have checked reception a few places and found it mostly non-existent on the AT or other rural or mountain trails. The last few times I was out it was weekends, and the cell phone stayed at home.

I did my eight-year section hike '96-'03 without a cell phone. In those early years, hardly anyone had them on their hikes. We all did right well! And we still can if we make the choice. A cell phone, IMHO, remains a luxury and not a necessity. I do recognize mine is a minority opinion, and that many folks consider them to be "needs" and not "wants."

I think folks who want to use cell phones in the woods have every right to do so, but should be considerate of others when doing so. That usually means moving out of earshot. If I was to use one, I'd do exactly that just to maintain my own privacy, and to be considerate of others.

Lion King
08-12-2012, 12:52
I kind of see both of your posts. On one level people sitting around talking is ok, but someone talking on a phone is annoying. I generally agree that people talk a little louder on the phone, but then again there are people that are just loud and talk loud, even with people right next to them.

I've found that people talking on the cell in public use to really bother people, but it doesn't anymore. I remember it use to catch my attention, but not really anymore.

It still bothers me out in the woods, but what ya goin' to do? It's not illegal and there is no enforcement of etiquette. Yeah, you can try, but this is something that ain't going away. Technology changes our behavior, both on a personal level and as a cultural. Us old fuddy duddies just need to step aside and allow the new blood to take over.

I like technology, but I'm kind of old fashioned about it out in the woods. But there ain't no goin' back, the woods are changin'; nothing we can do about it.
:)


I make no bones about it

I HATE CELL PHONES IN THE BACKCOUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hate them, and this year when I did a small hike pre trail days in VA I was sickened that every single shelter, every single overlook, every single water source, evbery gd where tons of people had their phones out talking, checking email, playing games, updating journals, texting, and at shelters, twice=- 5 people all had phones out, no one was communicating but they all had their damn phones out.

hate them
'hate them
hate them and wish they wouldnt work in the woods, wish people would get their heads out of their asses and think that maybe some people dont want to see you talking or texting or hear your convo with your banker or boss of angry wife or ungly kids.


Yes, I know we live in a modern world, but its the CONSIDERATION factor that is an issue, if you MUST do all that crap, go away from others, step into the trees a few hundred feet, or keep hiking till you get to town.

its a sickness and its prevalant now and i sure wish it wasnt

WingedMonkey
08-12-2012, 13:29
It's all relevant.

I don't consider the sound of the rocket engine that launched the Mars Curiosity Rover rude.

NASA is very considerate when they want to go boom-boom. They close down all the hiking trails in Cape Canaveral National Seashore and in Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge. And post notice well ahead of time.

Now if you want to blare your radio on these trails when the they are open, I'm sure a Ranger will enforce good manners. They always have.

Yes, it is all relevant.

:)

Spokes
08-12-2012, 13:50
You better believe if cell phones had been around when Lewis and Clark did their little trip, they would have taken 'em. Think the Indians would have been ticked off?

Heck, they were injesting mercury to ward off gonorrhea for goodness sake- medical technology of the day!

Papa D
08-12-2012, 14:19
I carry a phone but keep it powered-off. I will turn it on to occasionally (like every 3 days) check in with people or to make a shuttle or hostel arrangement. When I do turn it on, I make sure that I am away from others to protect their woodland experience. I thru-hiked long before the days of cell phones and could certainly do it and agree with the OP that people rely on them too much and that they are bothersome. Of course, I go out to be alone (or sometimes alone with like minded friend(s) - it is usually Plan A to tent or camp in an out of the way spot. I use shelters in a pinch to dry out, when they are mostly un-occupied in the winter and if I have to (i.e. GSMNP) so I'm usually able to avoid other's conversations (cell and otherwise) all together.

Rasty
08-12-2012, 16:24
Reminds me of when my niece got up in the attic and found some old Lps and came down all excited and wanted to know if we could play these big cds. And my friends little grandbaby watching a black and white tv show saying paw paw there's something seriously wrong with this tv as innocent as he could be.

My kids did not understand that not all TV's could be paused and could'nt go in reverse.

Different Socks
08-12-2012, 16:49
Different Socks - If you had a phone, we'd text you. :sun

Ha, ha, ha, ha.....LMAOROTF!! On to the Beartooths!!!

Wise Old Owl
08-12-2012, 21:30
Ha ha - as they say....too far gone for change

Another Kevin
08-12-2012, 22:39
Since I'm a clueless weekender, I can bring my smartphone without worrying too much about battery life. And I can't get over the reaction that some people have to it.

It never rings or gives me a text on the trail. because I leave it in airplane mode to save power unless I'm trying to get a message out - and I walk away from others on the rare occasions that I do. (The messages are mostly either, "Honey, expect me for pickup early," or "Honey, expect me for pickup late.") I'm not talking loudly on it in the midst of a group. In fact, the "expect me early/late" is usually a text rather than a call.

But it really peeves some people if I keep a journal on it. (They don't seem to have a problem with pencil, notebook, and headlamp, but the little screen really gets their goat.)

Or if I consult GPS on it. (But a handheld GPS doesn't bother most of them in the least - and as for the rest, they tend to be mollified if I tell them I'm old enough to have learnt pretty fair map-and-compass skills back in the day, so I know enough not to use GPS as my primary reference.)

Or if I read a book on it. (But they don't seem to mind my pulling out a paperback novel.)

Or even if they just know it's in my pack and I don't have it out at all. (Because somehow it ruins the whole wilderness experience just by being there.)

Anyone care to explain to this clueless weekender what's more disturbing about the newfangled way than the traditional way of doing these things? Is it just that by its very presence, it reminds people that the city world is out there? Or that it reminds people of other cell-phone users who make less of an effort to be polite?

SCRUB HIKER
08-12-2012, 23:03
But it really peeves some people if I keep a journal on it. (They don't seem to have a problem with pencil, notebook, and headlamp, but the little screen really gets their goat.)

Or if I consult GPS on it. (But a handheld GPS doesn't bother most of them in the least - and as for the rest, they tend to be mollified if I tell them I'm old enough to have learnt pretty fair map-and-compass skills back in the day, so I know enough not to use GPS as my primary reference.)

Or if I read a book on it. (But they don't seem to mind my pulling out a paperback novel.)

Or even if they just know it's in my pack and I don't have it out at all. (Because somehow it ruins the whole wilderness experience just by being there.)

Anyone care to explain to this clueless weekender what's more disturbing about the newfangled way than the traditional way of doing these things? Is it just that by its very presence, it reminds people that the city world is out there? Or that it reminds people of other cell-phone users who make less of an effort to be polite?

^ This. Thank you for being one of the only commenters age 40+ on this forum who can see that cell phones can be useful for old-school hiking values. You didn't even mention apps like iBird or Google Sky View which could make the trail a great educational experience for people.

I thought the discussion was going reasonably well when I posted last night, but when I checked back today 20 hours later, I saw three pages of mostly simplistic complaints against cell phone users. I guess I could have predicted the thread would go that way, but it still reminded me what an outrageous generation gap, and an outrageous inability to answer thoughtful questions thoughtfully, exists on WhiteBlaze.

scree
08-12-2012, 23:26
I carry a smartphone when I hike but I usually either have it turned off or have airplane mode on. Airplane mode is beautiful - all radios off but the other stuff still works. I use my mobile as my camera, my bookcase, my weather station, and a means to communicate when I want to. Typically I'll turn the radio on for about 30 minutes a day and check texts / voicemail / email, but otherwise it's less a phone and more about the other stuff it does. As a voracious nighttime reader, I love having my Kindle app and however many hundreds of books available to read whenever I feel like for essentially no extra weight.

I still think it's kind of pathetic when people can't go 10 minutes without texting or calling someone. When I got my first mobile phone back in 1993 or so it was huge, always in the car, and exclusively for emergencies... of course back then you paid out the ass by the minute, but I think something about "emergency use only" stuck. I only call people if I really need to and I get annoyed when people call me too often. That said, I'll admit to actually carrying two phones when I hike... Each on different carriers, one my smartphone and the other a throwaway prepaid phone that I never turn on. This was the compromise I made with the family instead of carrying one of those stupid Spot devices, just to have a little extra assurance I'll be able to get in touch if I need to :rolleyes:

Bronk
08-12-2012, 23:46
What's the difference between this discussion about cell phone use in shelters and say others snoring? Would you ask them to leave? Some people don't like to see others cook inside a shelter...... The list goes on and on.

I say if being around other hikers is that frustrating stay at home and watch the Housewives of Orange County.

The difference is mostly psychological...a cell phone is a tether to the outside world and many people live in the illusion that they are far removed from society...seeing the phone shatters the illusion...during the day its a big green tunnel and you can imagine you are far from any civilization. But if you've ever camped on a ridgeline you know as soon as the sun goes down the illusion is shattered when you see all the lights.

10 years ago I saw very few people with cell phones, on the trail or elsewhere. After a brief charge into the modern era I resisted getting one for the longest time...I had one for a year in 1999 then let it go when the contract was up...the next one was in 2003 which I gave up in 2005...I've now had one since 2009 but its not a smartphone and I'm not attached to it...I don't carry it around in my pocket like most people do...it lives in my car and oftentimes I don't even answer it.

I'd probably feel the same way if I were walking the trail and came upon somebody playing a radio. The trails I walk these days aren't very crowded, but I can see where people out in thuhiker season would be annoyed by phone use.

moytoy
08-13-2012, 03:28
I can't help but wonder what John Muir would think.

Train Wreck
08-13-2012, 04:34
I can't help but wonder what John Muir would think.

If he was with you at the Mt. Rogers visitor center, he'd probably read you the phone number off the sign when you use that puppy to order a couple of large pizzas!

moytoy
08-13-2012, 04:47
If he was with you at the Mt. Rogers visitor center, he'd probably read you the phone number off the sign when you use that puppy to order a couple of large pizzas!

That would be a treat in more ways than one:)

OzJacko
08-13-2012, 05:09
I seem to be like most of my vintage.
I carry a phone switched off - lasts weeks that way.
I turn it on a couple of times a day (usually at hut and around lunch)where there is a signal to catch text messages or send them.
I tell all family/friends that is the way to contact me.
I have a Nokia N8 with probably one of the best cameras a phone can get and took about 6 photos with it on a 600 mile hike. I used 4 4gb cards on my camera.
They're here, they are useful, and if people are sensible they're not a problem.
But if too many people starting being d%##$ with one, then it starts being a bit difficult to just hike on if you want to get away from them, the smokers, the snorers, the late night partiers, etc etc. Given all of the above I'll put up with them all except a cigar smoker.

One for the oldies....
:)
http://franksemails.com/pics/misc-pics-18-7-11/lunapic.jpg

bear bag hanger
08-13-2012, 07:38
Please don't dictate to me what your version of the 'wilderness experience' is. It has a different definition for just about everybody. Some people will tell you carrying a canister stove is not a wilderness experience, you have to use a camp fire and know how to start one without matches or fire starter. Lightweight down sleeping bag - for shame, you have to use a heavy wool blanket just like they did 100 years ago. There isn't anything you carry in your pack I can't criticize as somehow ruining my wilderness experience, especially your occasional snoring (yes, I know, you can't carry snores in your pack).

I carry a cell phone, but try not to be loud or obtrusive with it. I leave it off during the day, except to take pictures, etc., but that has to do with battery life. I will try to see if anyone has tried to call me at night after I get into my hammock. If I need to talk to someone during the day (i.e., to return a call made to me the day before, like my Dad telling me Mom as gone into the hospital again), I try to go off the trail where it shouldn't bother anyone. But I don't worry too much if someone sees it.

elmotoots
08-13-2012, 07:52
Someone having a cell phone would only bother me if I was looking for an excuse to be bothered.

I could not care any less, about anyones phone habits.

I have never made a phone call while out hiking, but I would if I needed to.

Starchild
08-13-2012, 07:53
You have asked for us to be brutally honest here, my friend. By your own admission, you are the one who is out of sync here.

I agree the OP is out of sync but also is the dumb phone. Voice conversation and ringing phones is not always appropriate to the situation, even when communication with others is. The smartphone has changed all that and very much has it's place in nature and community (as many reasons have been given already). The question is has the person become aware enough to know when and how to use it in the proper spirit, that of oneness wit nature and community as well as reaching out to others far away.

Lone Wolf
08-13-2012, 07:54
Someone having a cell phone would only bother me if I was looking for an excuse to be bothered.

I could not care any less, about anyones phone habits.

yup. it's a non issue. it's sad, pathetic and funny that most are addicted to the damn things

Train Wreck
08-13-2012, 08:06
That would be a treat in more ways than one:)

"aye, laddie, 'tis a fine repast ye have brought us this evening" *munch*BURP*

Mags
08-13-2012, 09:13
Use a cell phone like going to the bathroom: Step off the trail and be discreet about it.

An easy compromise I think.

jockellis
08-13-2012, 11:31
If you have a smartphone with a gps app, you can find your height above sea level. There are definitely uses for the phone but the more you use it, the quicker the battery dies. At that point it is like you are back in prehistoric times. And you don't bother peeps who don't like cellphones.

JohnWayne
08-13-2012, 11:50
I believe in having manners when you use your phone, however I have to ask all you who hike and don't have phones and are complaining about them: When you are at a shelter that delivers pizza, do you ask someone to phone your order in for you? :)

gpburdelljr
08-13-2012, 12:09
How is talking to someone on a cell phone andy different than talking to someone on the trail with you? One makes no more noise than the other.

Odd Man Out
08-13-2012, 13:47
I don't let other's obsession with cell phones bother me. In fact it gives me the opportunity to feel smug and superior for being independent and not addicted to electronic stimulation. :rolleyes:

Thank you cell phone addicts!

Train Wreck
08-13-2012, 14:47
I believe in having manners when you use your phone, however I have to ask all you who hike and don't have phones and are complaining about them: When you are at a shelter that delivers pizza, do you ask someone to phone your order in for you? :)

17048

What do you think???

Ladytrekker
08-13-2012, 14:51
I love my Iphone do not leave home without it. The technology is available so why not use it this is the digital age and I am onboard with it. I do not care what others do on their phones as they should not care what I do on mine.

hikerboy57
08-13-2012, 15:26
How is talking to someone on a cell phone andy different than talking to someone on the trail with you? One makes no more noise than the other.
you only get to hear half the conversation.
i carry a cell phone, dont get coverage here in maine, and could care less. its not about having a wilderness experience, its more about disconnecting from the 24/7 media barrage youre bombarded with off trail. i like not knowing whats going on. i will turn it on once in a while to see if i got any messages, any emergencies i need to respond to, but emergencies, not just to chat. i have no objection to others using phones, but do notice younger folks have become more dependant on being connected, and get annoyed when they cant get a signal.one of the things i enjoy about getting away is to get away.its amazing the experience you can have when you can just shut everything off and listen to the call of a loon, and watch the light fade into starry clouds of light. its tough to discover that transcendence when your worried about what calls you may have missed.

HikerMom58
08-13-2012, 21:54
There's a give and take with all things in life. It just seems like the tolerence level for most peeps is at an all time low, no matter what the topic. If someone is doing something that you don't approve of or/ agree with, then, there's no tolerence, for them at all. It goes the other way as well. If someone is "doing their own thing" there just doesn't seem like there's any thought of others around them and the impact if might have on them either. Soooo... that's the way things seem to be going.... It's fun isn't it? NOT!!! :eek: It's all good tho, somehow we'll get through it..... Bada bada bing!!

Wise Old Owl
08-13-2012, 22:00
Use a cell phone like going to the bathroom: Step off the trail and be discreet about it.

An easy compromise I think.

Round here folks use a phone while sittin in the men's room... sounds great when you are the recipient of a full flush... some folk just don't care.... rude huh?

coach lou
08-13-2012, 22:02
Round here folks use a phone while sittin in the men's room... sounds great when you are the recipient of a full flush... some folk just don't care.... rude huh?


WOO is this a drift?

atmilkman
08-14-2012, 00:32
If you are gonna stay at a shelter or a popular campsite thats crowded and you think all the cell phones are gonna bother you, why not try taking a jammer and having some fun. Turn it on as soon as someone is connected then jam them. Turn it off and when they get connected again - jam em'. You could say to yourself I'm having a little jam session. Or, I be jammin'.

tscoffey
08-14-2012, 01:03
If you are gonna stay at a shelter or a popular campsite thats crowded and you think all the cell phones are gonna bother you, why not try taking a jammer and having some fun. Turn it on as soon as someone is connected then jam them. Turn it off and when they get connected again - jam em'. You could say to yourself I'm having a little jam session. Or, I be jammin'.

This would be what the adults in the room call a felony.

atmilkman
08-14-2012, 08:57
This would be what the adults in the room call a felony.
This might be true but we're in the playroom.

hikerboy57
08-14-2012, 10:51
There's a give and take with all things in life. It just seems like the tolerence level for most peeps is at an all time low, no matter what the topic. If someone is doing something that you don't approve of or/ agree with, then, there's no tolerence, for them at all. It goes the other way as well. If someone is "doing their own thing" there just doesn't seem like there's any thought of others around them and the impact if might have on them either. Soooo... that's the way things seem to be going.... It's fun isn't it? NOT!!! :eek: It's all good tho, somehow we'll get through it..... Bada bada bing!!
tolerance on the trail is lot higher than it is here online.ive been out here in miane the past 2 weeks, drugs alcohol, phones, none of it has been an issue. noone has asked anyone to move away from them to use phones, etc. a few of us just laugh when we see how dependant some are on their phones, especially when they whine they cant get a signal. its funny."can you hear me now?"

HikerMom58
08-14-2012, 13:41
tolerance on the trail is lot higher than it is here online.ive been out here in miane the past 2 weeks, drugs alcohol, phones, none of it has been an issue. noone has asked anyone to move away from them to use phones, etc. a few of us just laugh when we see how dependant some are on their phones, especially when they whine they cant get a signal. its funny."can you hear me now?"

Cool HB! :) Good to know. :) Sounds like you are a pretty laid back dude. :) I think you make a really good point about tolerance being higher when you are actually on the trail. We were out in PA hiking when we had to listen to an entire VERY LONG (one sided) cell phone convo. I'm sure she would have been embarassed if she knew we heard every word she said, not that she said anything embarassing, but I really don't think she realized how much the sound of her voice "carried", in the still of the night. While it was extremely annoying, at the time, it was "OK". It's so much easier to "go off" about something on here. It's like the Jerry Springer show, live, on the WWW, sometimes. Hope you are enjoying your trip to the fullest in Maine. I LOVE that state!! Safe hiking till you get back home. :)

Deadeye
08-14-2012, 16:57
Personally, I don't see much difference between a person talking to someone else on the phone, or two people talking in the shelter, except I don't have to hear both sides of the story.

I guess it's different in the toilet - hard to fit both conversants in an outhouse.

Lone Wolf
08-14-2012, 17:00
y'all go to the I-95 super highway of hiking trails and you don't wanna hear others talking at a crowded shelter area. wierd

pheldozer
08-15-2012, 15:00
i keep mine easily accessible for the camera, and to occasionally mark points on a map so I can check out my route on google earth when I return to civilization. the rest of the time it stays in airplane mode to conserve batteries. as someone that has one with them pretty much all the time, they should never have their ringer on in the wilderness. if you can't help but answer every call you get, maybe you should get a secretary or a different hobby.

bamboo bob
08-15-2012, 15:55
On the AT this year, from Springer to about Damascus, cell phone rudeness was everywhere that people congregated. At the first shelter north of Gatlinburg, Cold Spring? Anyway there was a young woman who prattles on for an hour straight. It's one thing to arrange a gear or mail drop or book a motel room or a ride but this was annoying and a big bore. Most of the other people just assumed that's the way it was and is normal. Ten years ago it was very unusual and the etiquette that I still follow is to only use phones out of ear shot. Also I never heard one ring because who really leaves it on all the time.

I related issue is the clueless people who's watch alarms go off because they think they can't get out off the sack early enough. Also the clueless people with earbuds in who wont acknowledge my friendly Hello.

You really can solve most of these technology issues by tenting and I usually do.

atmilkman
08-15-2012, 16:05
On the AT this year, from Springer to about Damascus, cell phone rudeness was everywhere that people congregated. At the first shelter north of Gatlinburg, Cold Spring? Anyway there was a young woman who prattles on for an hour straight. It's one thing to arrange a gear or mail drop or book a motel room or a ride but this was annoying and a big bore. Most of the other people just assumed that's the way it was and is normal. Ten years ago it was very unusual and the etiquette that I still follow is to only use phones out of ear shot. Also I never heard one ring because who really leaves it on all the time.

I related issue is the clueless people who's watch alarms go off because they think they can't get out off the sack early enough. Also the clueless people with earbuds in who wont acknowledge my friendly Hello.

You really can solve most of these technology issues by tenting and I usually do.
I keep on tellin' everbody it's that dang MTV.

scree
08-15-2012, 16:11
Also the clueless people with earbuds in who wont acknowledge my friendly Hello.

Headphones are often a sign that someone doesn't want to be bothered. I can respect that, especially if it's a stranger... it is, however, behavior more appropriate to the metro than a trail. When I put the headphones it it's my time - sometimes I don't even play music or whatever, I just use it as a sign that I don't want to interact with anyone.

What strikes me most are people who *don't* have headphones and don't seem to know how to respond to a simple greeting. I get it everywhere and it seems particularly symptomatic of teens / early 20somethings who haven't learned any real world social graces. I'm always amused when I say a polite Hello / how ya doing and receive only an astonished, open-mouthed vacant stare back in return.

atmilkman
08-15-2012, 16:19
What strikes me most are people who *don't* have headphones and don't seem to know how to respond to a simple greeting. I get it everywhere and it seems particularly symptomatic of teens / early 20somethings who haven't learned any real world social graces. I'm always amused when I say a polite Hello / how ya doing and receive only an astonished, open-mouthed vacant stare back in return.
You gotta text them. It's the only way you're gonna get through.

veteran
08-15-2012, 21:29
If you don't like the people that use cell phones near you, buy a cell phone Jammer. Works great.

Montana AT05
08-16-2012, 02:26
Yes, cell phones are annoying. If I use one on trail I try to use it where I would uhh, umm, squat--well away from others.

Didn't have one on my thru hike, had one (iphone) on many subsequent long hikes (200-800 miles or so each). In retrospect, I think they detract from a hike, even though they are VERY useful for many other things.

Most annoying thing I've seen is a person on a bike, riding through town oblivious to traffic, yakking away on a cell phone.

And I do not stop for pedestrians crossing the street if they are yakking away on a phone and if they didn't bother even looking for traffic (and yes I know not stopping is illegal). They get the horn, a close up horn, and lot's of it.

weary
08-16-2012, 11:32
Cell phones have changed the nature of long distance trails. They used to be places where one could experience nature and wildness without such constant intrusions of civilization as phones and instant communication with everyday life. That no longer is possible. The trails are still great places, but something important to a few of us, at least, has been lost.

mudhead
08-16-2012, 13:35
t its funny."can you hear me now?"
Not funny after about the 4000th time. Not just the long trails either. Was headed up a trail here and thought a bunch of kids were headed downhill, they can be boisterous.

Was a gal yapping on a phone.

scree
08-16-2012, 16:04
Cell phones have changed the nature of long distance trails. They used to be places where one could experience nature and wildness without such constant intrusions of civilization as phones and instant communication with everyday life. That no longer is possible. The trails are still great places, but something important to a few of us, at least, has been lost.

I disagree. If you want true wilderness you can still find it. While it's true that the popular long distance trails are closer to civilization than they used to be, you can still find plenty of places in the world where you can play Davy Crockett if you want to. If you're really looking to get away, why not head out to Alaska? Check this out - there's a lot of wide-open land without any coverage at all: http://www.alaskacommunications.com/Online-Care/Service-Coverage.aspx True, you won't find many places to resupply, but aren't you looking for a true wilderness experience? If you're going to find nature, shouldn't you also go without other modern conveniences like grocery stores, shuttles, and roadways? Couldn't you say that modern synthetic lightweight materials, quartz watches, and shoes detract from the natural experience? Where does it end?

weary
08-16-2012, 16:17
I disagree. If you want true wilderness you can still find it. While it's true that the popular long distance trails are closer to civilization than they used to be, you can still find plenty of places in the world where you can play Davy Crockett if you want to. If you're really looking to get away, why not head out to Alaska? Check this out - there's a lot of wide-open land without any coverage at all: http://www.alaskacommunications.com/Online-Care/Service-Coverage.aspx True, you won't find many places to resupply, but aren't you looking for a true wilderness experience? If you're going to find nature, shouldn't you also go without other modern conveniences like grocery stores, shuttles, and roadways? Couldn't you say that modern synthetic lightweight materials, quartz watches, and shoes detract from the natural experience? Where does it end?
I didn't say anything about "true wilderness." The AT did use to be a place where one could walk without constantly facing regular instantaneous communication with the outside world. As i said, this changes the fundamental nature of the trail. And no, I "couldn't say modern synthetic lightweight materials, quartz watches, and shoes" have a similar impact. Mostly because they don't.

rickb
08-16-2012, 18:55
The late Guy Waterman wrot about some of these things in "Wilderness Ethis" at a time when cell phones didn't even exist. Specifically, with regard to presence of a 2-way radio changed the nature of one of his bushwacks in the Whites.

The book is work reading, even now-- as is its companion "Backwoods Ethics".

Phones may be so ubiquitous on the AT -- during prime hiking season -- that one more hardly makes a difference. But let there be no mistake, the change Wearry refers to has nothing to do with being anoyed by the sounds of someone's jibber-jabber.

To my way of thining there are a whoel lot of correct answers in this thread-- but all to the worng question. Oh, well.

Mags
08-17-2012, 00:23
The late Guy Waterman wrot about some of these things in "Wilderness Ethis" at a time when cell phones didn't even exist. Specifically, with regard to presence of a 2-way radio changed the nature of one of his bushwacks in the Whites.



I have that book in my collection. Excellent read.

Waterman wrote the book just as cell phone usage was starting to become if not common, then not rare either.

Page 117 of the 1993 edition had this blurb

(text about a man became lost in the California wilderness)... a California hiker got lost, so he simply whipped out his celluar phone and called his wife. The good woman then phoned the forest service, which dispatched a helicopter to the rescue. Will this story be repeated with growing frequency?



The answer to Guy Waterman is "Yes, it is being repeated".

For every wonderful SAR operation that saves someone's life through technology there is the story of the gentleman above who was (more than likely) not prepared and/or just panicked.

The subtitle of the book is "Preserving the Spirit of Wildness".

Personally, I've always said that while the AT is not wilderness, it does have WILDness:

The AT, except for maybe a few isolated parts in New England (and perhaps even smaller parts of the southern Appalachians), is not really a wilderness experience. The corridor is narrow and is often well used. It is, however, a wildness experience. A refuge where hikers can experience ,if not wilderness, at least a wild, beautiful and inspiring area. Being on Franconia Ridge on a gorgeous crisp day? Seeing the first wildflowers of Spring? Hearing the loons on a quiet lake in Maine? The AT may not be wilderness, but it has wildness in spades.

If every hike did follow what I call the "bathroom rule" (discreetly and quietly and of course in emergencies) there would not be this discussion. It would be easier to preserve a spirit of wildness on the AT corridor.

But we are a 24/7 connected society now for the most part. There is an expectation that 24 hour connectivity is available not just for an individual but for everyone. Try taking a vacation in modern corporate America. Checking e-mails and voicemails is expected de facto if not de jure. How much longer will wildness be preserved if it is expected that a person will be able to answer a question at all times..even in the woods?

Are cell phones and instant communication bad? Not in itself. But this expectation of instant communication is something I think is a troublesome trend. It is one thing choose to be connected..it is another things where people expect you to be connected.

I wrote something about it a few years ago. I think it is even more true, now.
http://www.pmags.com/the-growing-culture-of-connectivity

Everyone has to enjoy the wilds in their own way. I am just worried that there is a rapidly decreasing amount of what is truly wild as both technology and (more importantly IMO) the culture that expects this type of connectivity, grows and develops.

Different Socks
08-18-2012, 00:12
I believe in having manners when you use your phone, however I have to ask all you who hike and don't have phones and are complaining about them: When you are at a shelter that delivers pizza, do you ask someone to phone your order in for you? :)

Nope! I use the phone at the building OR that would be one of the few times I'd actually have dug the phone out of the bottom of my pack.
As I indicated before with my OP, I will carry a phone, but unless it can take as good a picture as my little pocket digital camera, it will stay in the bottom of my pack for 99% of the time that each day I hike. I agree with Lion King, to come to a shelter and 5 people have their phones out and are messing with them? That would drive me crazy. I've seen several posts here where people use excuses for reasons to use the phone for any reason other checking hours of a PO(that's what the handbook is for), taking pictures, or even journaling(writing or tapping on keys i guess is the same).
BUT, if you are on the AT which is a clearly marked and worn down path, why would you need to be on your phone for anything else but what I stated above?
Come on people!! Admit it! You are addicted to them!!

Different Socks
08-18-2012, 00:17
I love my Iphone do not leave home without it. The technology is available so why not use it this is the digital age and I am onboard with it. I do not care what others do on their phones as they should not care what I do on mine.

So you're out in the middle of a wilderness area and are floating down a nice flat water river. Suddenly hear a voice and then you see it, another person on the same river talking to their cell. This scenario wouldn't bother you? If not, then you are a phone addict and do not even know it. Don't think so? Try going on next hike for more than a weekend with no phone.
Talking to another person on the river with you is quite different from the annoying sound of hearing a person on their cell phone in the middle if a wild area.

Different Socks
08-18-2012, 00:19
you only get to hear half the conversation.
i carry a cell phone, dont get coverage here in maine, and could care less. its not about having a wilderness experience, its more about disconnecting from the 24/7 media barrage youre bombarded with off trail. i like not knowing whats going on. i will turn it on once in a while to see if i got any messages, any emergencies i need to respond to, but emergencies, not just to chat. i have no objection to others using phones, but do notice younger folks have become more dependant on being connected, and get annoyed when they cant get a signal.one of the things i enjoy about getting away is to get away.its amazing the experience you can have when you can just shut everything off and listen to the call of a loon, and watch the light fade into starry clouds of light. its tough to discover that transcendence when your worried about what calls you may have missed.

Gotta get together and hike with you someday!!

Different Socks
08-18-2012, 00:24
Cell phones have changed the nature of long distance trails. They used to be places where one could experience nature and wildness without such constant intrusions of civilization as phones and instant communication with everyday life. That no longer is possible. The trails are still great places, but something important to a few of us, at least, has been lost.

It's becoming more and more difficult to accept this, and i am becoming the minority b/c of it.

Bronk
08-18-2012, 01:00
I have that book in my collection. Excellent read.

Waterman wrote the book just as cell phone usage was starting to become if not common, then not rare either.

Page 117 of the 1993 edition had this blurb

(text about a man became lost in the California wilderness)... a California hiker got lost, so he simply whipped out his celluar phone and called his wife. The good woman then phoned the forest service, which dispatched a helicopter to the rescue. Will this story be repeated with growing frequency?



The answer to Guy Waterman is "Yes, it is being repeated".

For every wonderful SAR operation that saves someone's life through technology there is the story of the gentleman above who was (more than likely) not prepared and/or just panicked.

The subtitle of the book is "Preserving the Spirit of Wildness".

Personally, I've always said that while the AT is not wilderness, it does have WILDness:

The AT, except for maybe a few isolated parts in New England (and perhaps even smaller parts of the southern Appalachians), is not really a wilderness experience. The corridor is narrow and is often well used. It is, however, a wildness experience. A refuge where hikers can experience ,if not wilderness, at least a wild, beautiful and inspiring area. Being on Franconia Ridge on a gorgeous crisp day? Seeing the first wildflowers of Spring? Hearing the loons on a quiet lake in Maine? The AT may not be wilderness, but it has wildness in spades.

If every hike did follow what I call the "bathroom rule" (discreetly and quietly and of course in emergencies) there would not be this discussion. It would be easier to preserve a spirit of wildness on the AT corridor.

But we are a 24/7 connected society now for the most part. There is an expectation that 24 hour connectivity is available not just for an individual but for everyone. Try taking a vacation in modern corporate America. Checking e-mails and voicemails is expected de facto if not de jure. How much longer will wildness be preserved if it is expected that a person will be able to answer a question at all times..even in the woods?

Are cell phones and instant communication bad? Not in itself. But this expectation of instant communication is something I think is a troublesome trend. It is one thing choose to be connected..it is another things where people expect you to be connected.

I wrote something about it a few years ago. I think it is even more true, now.
http://www.pmags.com/the-growing-culture-of-connectivity

Everyone has to enjoy the wilds in their own way. I am just worried that there is a rapidly decreasing amount of what is truly wild as both technology and (more importantly IMO) the culture that expects this type of connectivity, grows and develops.


Constant connectivity has a huge impact upon self reliance. Your whole mindset is different if you know that you are a phone call away from help. Even if you aren't carrying a phone, just knowing that most of those around you have one will change your mindset.

JohnWayne
08-18-2012, 01:01
Nope! I use the phone at the building OR that would be one of the few times I'd actually have dug the phone out of the bottom of my pack.
As I indicated before with my OP, I will carry a phone, but unless it can take as good a picture as my little pocket digital camera, it will stay in the bottom of my pack for 99% of the time that each day I hike. I agree with Lion King, to come to a shelter and 5 people have their phones out and are messing with them? That would drive me crazy. I've seen several posts here where people use excuses for reasons to use the phone for any reason other checking hours of a PO(that's what the handbook is for), taking pictures, or even journaling(writing or tapping on keys i guess is the same).
BUT, if you are on the AT which is a clearly marked and worn down path, why would you need to be on your phone for anything else but what I stated above?
Come on people!! Admit it! You are addicted to them!!

What you may not realize is that iPhones and the newer phones take better pictures than your little camera! Also with my own phone, I can store over 8,000 photos.

Partner, you remind me of how people used to complain when the newfangled auto-mobile started driving the roads and scaring all them horses! LOL It is a new age and phones in the "wilderness" are here with us to stay.

Hikers use phones for photos, weather reports, GPS, first aid advice, identifying plants and birds and them there snakes; stock reports, business, obtaining information and communicating with family and loved ones. I personally don't understand the difference between overhearing someone's jabbering with another hiker and jabbering on the phone. Yep. Nice if they would be polite about it, but not something that you are going to ever change.

rickb
08-18-2012, 06:22
Constant connectivity has a huge impact upon self reliance. Your whole mindset is different if you know that you are a phone call away from help. Even if you aren't carrying a phone, just knowing that most of those around you have one will change your mindset.

Exactly.

And since your correct and straight forward observation draws no conclusion as to whether having a phones in the backcountry is a net benefit or not, I'd think that what you say would be impossible to argue with.

Probably over a great many people's heads, though.

JohnWayne
08-18-2012, 08:39
Exactly.

And since your correct and straight forward observation draws no conclusion as to whether having a phones in the backcountry is a net benefit or not, I'd think that what you say would be impossible to argue with.

Probably over a great many people's heads, though.

The place to go for self-reliance isn't the AT. Point we are making is that phones ain't going anywhere so best not to get your panties in a bunch over the situation. Nothing different from grabbing a phone and grabbing a book that might hold the same info. And if your argument is over a great many heads, then we sure have a dumb group here. I think we all get your point, we may all just not agree with it. :rolleyes:

rickb
08-18-2012, 10:12
And if your argument is over a great many heads, then we sure have a dumb group here. I think we all get your point, we may all just not agree with it. :rolleyes:

No argument, just an observation that stands on its own.

pheldozer
08-18-2012, 10:34
Try going on next hike for more than a weekend with no phone.

in theory this sounds like something everyone should do every now and again as a reality check. in practice, unless you have a way of notifying everyone you know that you'll be off the grid, people will start to worry if they can't get a hold of you. it sucks, but it's the world we live in now.

weary
08-18-2012, 11:13
in theory this sounds like something everyone should do every now and again as a reality check. in practice, unless you have a way of notifying everyone you know that you'll be off the grid, people will start to worry if they can't get a hold of you. it sucks, but it's the world we live in now.
There's still a place where open use of cell phones is banned -- Baxter State Park in Maine.

After trying as Governor in the 1920s to get the Legislature to purchase Katahdin, Percival Baxter spent the rest of his life buying the mountain and nearly 200,000 abutting acres, which he gave piece by piece to the state, the gifts stipulated the area remain "forever wild." Cell phones hadn't been invented then, but Baxter specified that no electronic devices should be allowed. So far the mandate has been upheld, even though Baxter has been dead for around 40 years.

The veteran park director Buzz Caverly for 50 years was adamant about upholding Baxter's wishes. His replacement has done an admirable job, also. But he's not quite the purist that Buzz was. “We really recommend people hiking in the park stay on trail and stay together and pack a cell phone, turned off and stowed in their pack, as a piece of emergency equipment,” he reportedly told the press after a winter rescue last year.

The park is helped in its resolve by the remoteness of the park. Most of the camp grounds have poor or non existent cell phone reception. Some of the higher trails and Katahdin itself gets some reception, I'm told. I don't carry.

tdoczi
08-18-2012, 11:49
in theory this sounds like something everyone should do every now and again as a reality check. in practice, unless you have a way of notifying everyone you know that you'll be off the grid, people will start to worry if they can't get a hold of you. it sucks, but it's the world we live in now.

i have a real simple method of doing so, it goes something like... "hey, i'm going hiking for a week, talk to you on (insert day of return)" it may suck for them, but thats the world i choose to live in.

Different Socks
08-18-2012, 12:35
i have a real simple method of doing so, it goes something like... "hey, i'm going hiking for a week, talk to you on (insert day of return)" it may suck for them, but thats the world i choose to live in.

I agree with your method. I just spent 4 days in the Beartooths. My only electronic devices were a Zune player that I used once on the last day and my camera. I let 2 different people know where I as going, what I was doing and when I'd be home. Within 30 min after I walked in the door, I had sent emails that I was home.
I felt no need to be connected to the world outside the trail I was on for all 4 days, not even when I was off trail and in camp. The great thing was that I finally met some other hikers on the last day and they all expressed the same view--NO CELL PHONES!!! I even met three 15 yr old teens that were out for 14 days in the backcountry. They weren't carrying cells either. I shook their hands and told them it was awesome they were out there.
Again, if not for pictures, emergencies or keeping a journal, why the need for a cell phone?

tdoczi
08-18-2012, 12:44
I agree with your method. I just spent 4 days in the Beartooths. My only electronic devices were a Zune player that I used once on the last day and my camera. I let 2 different people know where I as going, what I was doing and when I'd be home. Within 30 min after I walked in the door, I had sent emails that I was home.
I felt no need to be connected to the world outside the trail I was on for all 4 days, not even when I was off trail and in camp. The great thing was that I finally met some other hikers on the last day and they all expressed the same view--NO CELL PHONES!!! I even met three 15 yr old teens that were out for 14 days in the backcountry. They weren't carrying cells either. I shook their hands and told them it was awesome they were out there.
Again, if not for pictures, emergencies or keeping a journal, why the need for a cell phone?


your experience gives me hope. actually i talk to younger people all the time who when they find out i dont carry a cell (not just hiking, pretty much anywhere, never) they are in awe. i guess its been long enough where 20 year olds these days have never known a world without cell phones and dont realize you can just decide not to have one. the encouraging thing is most of them seem to like the idea, even if few ever do anything with it.

still hoping this whole thing is a fad that will one day, if not die, at least become immeasurably muted as compared to the present state.

Different Socks
08-18-2012, 12:46
[QUOTE=Different Socks;1325489]I agree with your method. I just spent 4 days in the Beartooths. My only electronic devices were a Zune player that I used once on the last day and my camera. I let 2 different people know where I as going, what I was doing and when I'd be home. Within 30 min after I walked in the door, I had sent emails that I was home.
I felt no need to be connected to the world outside the trail I was on for all 4 days, not even when I was off trail and in camp. The great thing was that I finally met some other hikers on the last day and they all expressed the same view--NO CELL PHONES!!! I even met three 15 yr old teens that were out for 14 days in the backcountry. They weren't carrying cells either. I shook their hands and told them it was awesome they were out there.
Again, if not for pictures, emergencies or keeping a journal, why the need for a cell phone? Why the need to communicate with the world that you are attempting to get away from? So you are one of those types of personalities that has the habit to talking to their better half every night, why the need to do it on the phone, even when out in the woods/mtns/prairies, etc? Just tell them where you are going and if you really need to talk to them, or they need to hear your voice, then call every other day.
I guess what I am going to hope for is that when I am in camp, or a hostel, or on the trail, that a person checks messages/makes calls discreetly. I am sorry that that is the way I will always be. When I finally get a cell, I already have made up my mind that I won't be talking to it as I float down the river, walk down a trail, sitting at an awesome view point, atop a mtn, tackling a boring section of trail, or even during long bouts of bad weather stuck inside my tent.

atmilkman
08-18-2012, 12:55
still hoping this whole thing is a fad that will one day, if not die, at least become immeasurably muted as compared to the present state.
It'll happen. It's always been a thing for the next generation to be different than the last. The next generation will be out to prove they're better than the last. It wont be long and the cell phone addict generation will be just a bunch of old fuddy-duddys stuck in their ways and history will repeat itself and the new breed will show that they don't need to be that way.

randyg45
08-18-2012, 13:29
Unless you're keeping me awake, I fail to see how your conversations, electronic or otherwise, are any of my business.
And I do not care if you think my conversations are your business.

Kryptonite
08-18-2012, 14:15
I own three businesses and I would be unable to hike the AT without a reliable means for my staff to get in touch with me to make important decisions. Nothing that can't wait a couple of days if reception is bad, but means the difference between hiking and not hiking to me.

Hairbear
08-18-2012, 18:04
Since I'm a clueless weekender, I can bring my smartphone without worrying too much about battery life. And I can't get over the reaction that some people have to it.

It never rings or gives me a text on the trail. because I leave it in airplane mode to save power unless I'm trying to get a message out - and I walk away from others on the rare occasions that I do. (The messages are mostly either, "Honey, expect me for pickup early," or "Honey, expect me for pickup late.") I'm not talking loudly on it in the midst of a group. In fact, the "expect me early/late" is usually a text rather than a call.

But it really peeves some people if I keep a journal on it. (They don't seem to have a problem with pencil, notebook, and headlamp, but the little screen really gets their goat.)

Or if I consult GPS on it. (But a handheld GPS doesn't bother most of them in the least - and as for the rest, they tend to be mollified if I tell them I'm old enough to have learnt pretty fair map-and-compass skills back in the day, so I know enough not to use GPS as my primary reference.)

Or if I read a book on it. (But they don't seem to mind my pulling out a paperback novel.)

Or even if they just know it's in my pack and I don't have it out at all. (Because somehow it ruins the whole wilderness experience just by being there.)

Anyone care to explain to this clueless weekender what's more disturbing about the newfangled way than the traditional way of doing these things? Is it just that by its very presence, it reminds people that the city world is out there? Or that it reminds people of other cell-phone users who make less of an effort to be polite?
its about quiet desperation,people in real life are overwhelmed by constant change,so they go to desolate places to verify to themselves that all this change is unnecesary,not that they cant learn fast enogh to keep up.then low and behold there that darn technology is even out here.it makes us all feel so hopeless to ever be content.

Penn-J
08-20-2012, 07:15
You can let it bother you or you can ignore it. Earlier this year I climbed Mt. Whitney and the first thing my hiking buddies did when we got to the top and found out we got singnal was pull out thier phones and start texting/calling people etc...

I simply found a secluded spot and enjoyed the amazing view. I simply refuse to let the actions of others dictate my happiness or inner peace.


17098

Maddog
08-20-2012, 07:30
You can let it bother you or you can ignore it. Earlier this year I climbed Mt. Whitney and the first thing my hiking buddies did when we got to the top and found out we got singnal was pull out thier phones and start texting/calling people etc...

I simply found a secluded spot and enjoyed the amazing view. I simply refuse to let the actions of others dictate my happiness or inner peace.


17098

+1 Amen, brother!!! Maddog:)

louisb
08-20-2012, 08:12
If I didn't carry a cell phone I would never get out on the trail. To many responsibilities that require me to be accessible at least most of the time. Plus mine takes damn good pictures, I have around 30 books stored on it and it fits in my pocket.

--louis

Different Socks
08-21-2012, 21:30
They finally came up with a term for those that can't seem to do without their electronics on the trail(or else where):

"electronic narcotics ".

Different Socks
08-21-2012, 21:32
"You can let it bother you or you can ignore it. Earlier this year I climbed Mt. Whitney and the first thing my hiking buddies did when we got to the top and found out we got singnal was pull out thier phones and start texting/calling people etc..."

Yes, but why did they think that was the first thing they had to do after accomplishing such as they did?

mag
08-21-2012, 22:00
+1 Amen, brother!!! Maddog:)

Thank you - I like your spirit. My husband and I hit the trail to get away from the everyday world including phones. So we leave ours at home. Kindles, however, we can't live without. Everyone has to hike their own hike, right?

BFI
08-22-2012, 15:05
Heres the perfect Cell Phone for you17120