View Full Version : Tipping and Donations
kayak karl
08-12-2012, 10:25
this is a pet peeve of mine.
some will justify their lack of tipping, by stating how important THEIR journey is and tipping would put a strain on THEIR fiances to complete THEIR dream.
others do not understand donations at hostels. i feel the donation asked for is the minimum they need to keep it open, but feel free to donate more.
shuttle drivers are others that can be tipped. if the drive was free from hostel i aways tipped the driver.
when in town, what impression do you leave with business owners by how you tip?
please run with this :D like i need to ask:rolleyes:
KK&K
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 10:54
+1 KK&K!
Yes, some dreams cost a bit of money to make come to fruition. That shouldn't be someone else's problem - You are the one who chose to partake of your dream. Think of ALL the costs that have gone up the past few years - gas, food, electricity, water, etc... Those costs haven't just gone up for the people who are undertaking their hike. Those costs have also gone up for all the shuttle drivers, hostel providers, and everyone out there who is helping to make your dream come true.
If a $6 donation (to use as an example) is required... Wow. I can't imagine how a place could be run on $6 a night. If everyone gave just the bare minimum, or skipped out on the donation, just how long would that business be around? Shouldn't the people who partake of these services do their best to make sure the same services will be around for future hiking classes?
As with any group, there are some who choose to Hike Their Own Hike in ways that are less than considerate to their hiking brethren. Obnoxious town behavior, expecting everyone to bow down to them because they are hiking the AT (or the PCT or the CDT...), just being inconsiderate in general. These behaviors tend to reflect on more than just that one person. It reflects on the rest of the hikers out there. If someone skips out on a bill, and the behavior repeats, then it makes ALL of us look bad. Eventually, the services will not be offered.
Excuses should not be tolerated. If you didn't have the money, you should not have partaken of the services. It is not up to others to foot the bill for you. It is up to you to pay your own way. If you don't have the money, stay in your tent. Seems pretty simple to me. Don't come up with excuses.
As for tipping and free rides - Think about what that person is giving up to haul your butt around. They didn't have to give up their morning/afternoon/evening to make sure you got to where you wanted to go. If you want people to go the extra mile for you in the future, then you'd better make sure to make it worth their while. "Free" for you, does not equate to "free" for them.
Tipping in restaurants - Most (there are exceptions!) wait staff will bust their butts to get your meal to you as soon as they can. They don't make a lot of money doing this job. Tipping them small amounts (compared to the bill)...or not tipping at all...will just cause them to become jaded and look at all hikers as trash. Why bust your butt for someone who won't even bother with a tip? Nope. They will spend more of their time waiting on the tables that actually will tip. That doesn't make anyone feel good, especially the hiker who really wants to leave a nice tip.
The bottom line - Yeah, these things will run up the cost of your hike. But, you were the one who chose to hike the trail. You were the one who chose to partake of services along the way. Don't stiff the people who are helping to make YOUR hike possible.
Guess that is a pet peeve of mine, too.
+1 KK&K!
Yes, some dreams cost a bit of money to make come to fruition. That shouldn't be someone else's problem - You are the one who chose to partake of your dream. Think of ALL the costs that have gone up the past few years - gas, food, electricity, water, etc... Those costs haven't just gone up for the people who are undertaking their hike. Those costs have also gone up for all the shuttle drivers, hostel providers, and everyone out there who is helping to make your dream come true.
If a $6 donation (to use as an example) is required... Wow. I can't imagine how a place could be run on $6 a night. If everyone gave just the bare minimum, or skipped out on the donation, just how long would that business be around? Shouldn't the people who partake of these services do their best to make sure the same services will be around for future hiking classes?
As with any group, there are some who choose to Hike Their Own Hike in ways that are less than considerate to their hiking brethren. Obnoxious town behavior, expecting everyone to bow down to them because they are hiking the AT (or the PCT or the CDT...), just being inconsiderate in general. These behaviors tend to reflect on more than just that one person. It reflects on the rest of the hikers out there. If someone skips out on a bill, and the behavior repeats, then it makes ALL of us look bad. Eventually, the services will not be offered.
Excuses should not be tolerated. If you didn't have the money, you should not have partaken of the services. It is not up to others to foot the bill for you. It is up to you to pay your own way. If you don't have the money, stay in your tent. Seems pretty simple to me. Don't come up with excuses.
As for tipping and free rides - Think about what that person is giving up to haul your butt around. They didn't have to give up their morning/afternoon/evening to make sure you got to where you wanted to go. If you want people to go the extra mile for you in the future, then you'd better make sure to make it worth their while. "Free" for you, does not equate to "free" for them.
Tipping in restaurants - Most (there are exceptions!) wait staff will bust their butts to get your meal to you as soon as they can. They don't make a lot of money doing this job. Tipping them small amounts (compared to the bill)...or not tipping at all...will just cause them to become jaded and look at all hikers as trash. Why bust your butt for someone who won't even bother with a tip? Nope. They will spend more of their time waiting on the tables that actually will tip. That doesn't make anyone feel good, especially the hiker who really wants to leave a nice tip.
The bottom line - Yeah, these things will run up the cost of your hike. But, you were the one who chose to hike the trail. You were the one who chose to partake of services along the way. Don't stiff the people who are helping to make YOUR hike possible.
Guess that is a pet peeve of mine, too.
Do you seriously believe what you replied??? Must be true... You can't fix WhiteBlaze, oops, stupid...
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 11:36
Do you seriously believe what you replied??? Must be true... You can't fix WhiteBlaze, oops, stupid...
Actually, I do believe what I said. I guess I don't want to follow to herd. Never thought I could "fix" WB... OP asked us to respond, so I did.
Kryptonite
08-12-2012, 11:46
Do you seriously believe what you replied??? Must be true... You can't fix WhiteBlaze, oops, stupid...
Water Rat - your answer said it ALL! If hikers stiff hostels and waitresses, all of us are hurt by this negative behavior. I actually overtip when I am hiking to make up for all the hikers who don't.
Toli - I believe this 100% and I can guarantee you that I'm far from being stupid.
Do you seriously believe what you replied??? Must be true... You can't fix WhiteBlaze, oops, stupid...
Actually, I do believe what I said. I guess I don't want to follow to herd. Never thought I could "fix" WB... OP asked us to respond, so I did.
Water Rat great answer. Toli your wrong as usual.
rocketsocks
08-12-2012, 11:50
You didn't hike your hike, there were shuttle owner's who groomed there dirt driveways so they could come git cha, you didn't build that. You did make that bed, there was someone there to do that for.:D
I always T.I.P. to insure promptness......on my return visit.
Kryptonite
08-12-2012, 11:59
Water Rat - You are not wrong. (Where is Winds when I need him, but basically your post said:)
1. Your dream shouldn't be someone else's problem.
2. The costs for shuttle drivers, hostels, restaurants and other places that support hikers has increased.
3. If everyone gave the bare minimum or skipped out on their bill, how long would the business be around?
4. Shouldn't hikers do their best to ensure that these businesses are there for future generations of hikers?
5. Bad hiking behavior like stiffing a place reflects poorly on all hikers.
6. Excuses should not be tolerated.
7. If you can't afford to stay there, stay in your tent.
8. It is not up to others to foot the bill for you.
9. Not tipping or poor tipping will cause staff to become jaded.
10. Don't stiff the people who are helping to make YOUR hike possible.
Anyone who has a problem with this should stay in their tent; get their food from grocery stores; and get their sodas from a machine. That is the best way for you to save money.
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 12:07
Water Rat - You are not wrong. (Where is Winds when I need him, but basically your post said:)
1. Your dream shouldn't be someone else's problem.
2. The costs for shuttle drivers, hostels, restaurants and other places that support hikers has increased.
3. If everyone gave the bare minimum or skipped out on their bill, how long would the business be around?
4. Shouldn't hikers do their best to ensure that these businesses are there for future generations of hikers?
5. Bad hiking behavior like stiffing a place reflects poorly on all hikers.
6. Excuses should not be tolerated.
7. If you can't afford to stay there, stay in your tent.
8. It is not up to others to foot the bill for you.
9. Not tipping or poor tipping will cause staff to become jaded.
10. Don't stiff the people who are helping to make YOUR hike possible.
Anyone who has a problem with this should stay in their tent; get their food from grocery stores; and get their sodas from a machine. That is the best way for you to save money.
Thanks, Krytonite! :) Your summation of my post was dead-on. I wasn't worried about being wrong. I do worry when others think this way of thinking is wrong. That means those people have no thoughts of anyone but themselves. In this instance, that kind of thinking will impact all the other hikers who come along after the person who decided to skip out on a bill, not tip, or otherwise made others think horrible thoughts about hikers. I know I don't want to be the next hiker to follow that person. I don't want to be the one who has to clean up the previous hiker's mess.
There is a saying. It goes something like "Don't sh** in your bed." If you are cheating others to make your dream come true, this is exactly what you are doing.
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 12:08
Dang... Can't edit. I forgot the "p" in Kryptonite. My apologies!
Kryptonite
08-12-2012, 12:11
More importantly, "don't sh** on the trail!" Cause we are all hiking right behind you and don't want to step in it! (Figuratively and literally):(
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 12:12
More importantly, "don't sh** on the trail!" Cause we are all hiking right behind you and don't want to step in it! (Figuratively and literally):(
Yes! Perfect!!! Those were my thoughts, but I just couldn't word them as eloquently as you did! :)
rocketsocks
08-12-2012, 12:14
Put another way..." your mama don't work here, wipe your own dam butt"
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 12:16
Put another way..." your mama don't work here, wipe your own dam butt"
Ummm... Rocketsocks... THAT is a disturbing image! No wonder why you keep asking if your computer camera is on!! :)
Pathfinder1
08-12-2012, 12:21
Hi...
I believe that employees who provided good service should be tipped.
On the other hand, I don't believe in tipping the OWNER of those businesses.
rocketsocks
08-12-2012, 12:22
Ummm... Rocketsocks... THAT is a disturbing image! No wonder why you keep asking if your computer camera is on!! :)awe dam....I really cannot imagine someone stiffing a person that is there to help them, it must be a mind set that they grow up with...people are out to gouge them. Shame!
Actually, I do believe what I said. I guess I don't want to follow to herd. Never thought I could "fix" WB... OP asked us to respond, so I did.
Good for you brother.. BTW, no one can "fix" WB... I don't follow "the "herd" either... If I'm not thinning it out, I'm leaving it behind to natural selection :D...
ChinMusic
08-12-2012, 12:24
On the other hand, I don't believe in tipping the OWNER of those businesses.
I never tip owners
And I am an owner.
Water Rat great answer. Toli your wrong as usual.
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but the 3 dog-thrus, 2 solo, 10's of 1000's of miles on the trail, will never hurt me... ur mom said "hi"...
kayak karl
08-12-2012, 12:34
I never tip owners
And I am an owner.
same here! i learned about tipping at the barber shop in '59. if the owner cut, no tip. employee you tip. my dad let me hand him the money :)
Kryptonite
08-12-2012, 12:54
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but the 3 dog-thrus, 2 solo, 10's of 1000's of miles on the trail, will never hurt me... ur mom said "hi"...
If that is your true philosophy and you actually believe in stiffing hostels, not tipping and being a tightwad at the expense of others, no wonder we are all dodging so much sh** you've dumped on the trail...
Dang... Can't edit. I forgot the "p" in Kryptonite. My apologies!
You also forgot to tip. If you tipped the website owner, you'd have editing privileges. ;)
PS regarding not tipping owners, the website owner doesn't receive any compensation from you being a customer.
yellowsirocco
08-12-2012, 13:10
On the hiker side of things: Hikers are just people on vacation. Hikers are not entitled to anything, they shouldn't be treated as charity cases. If you don't have the money to pay the bills then go home.
On the service provider side of things: Most of the trail businesses that use the tipping/donating scheme are doing it to get out of paying taxes or having the proper licenses or insurance. If they are doing that then they should expect to get screwed.
I really hate the concept of tips especially on the trail. Trail life is simple: I need food, water, and shelter. Don't complicate that purity with some game about what stuff actually costs. For me on the trail I tip at restaurants like normal, but if there is not a posted price for a service they will probably be disappointed. I have no problems paying when things are up front and simple.
On my thru hike I never tipped. but I was always polite and left my place/room clean. If it costs x dollars to keep an establishment going, then they should charge x dollars and that should show on the bill. I refuse to accept that a 10 dollar bill magically transforms into a 20 $ or what ever fee. The bill is the bill. If a given establishment thinks they should be paid extra just for doing their job-- which is to provide food and/or lodging, then they should consider going into another business.
That said.. if some shmuck stinks up the place with ciggarettes and the stench of alcohol and leaves litter everywhere or doesn't clean up after them selves.. than they deserve to get stuck with an extra fee.
Water Rat great answer. Toli your wrong as usual.
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but the 3 dog-thrus, 2 solo, 10's of 1000's of miles on the trail, will never hurt me... ur mom said "hi"...
Even my mom thinks your wrong. In 10000 miles you've yet to learn much and always go straight for an unnecessary personal attack, but I'm the troll.
In case anyone is interested (and a few here should be) here's a website with some "simple" tipping guidelines.
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2006/10/12/basic-tips-on-tipping-how-much-and-to-whom/
You also forgot to tip. If you tipped the website owner, you'd have editing privileges. ;)
PS regarding not tipping owners (aka being a cheapskate), the website owner doesn't receive any compensation from you being a customer.
OH SNAP BYTCHES... Thats what I'm sayin"... :banana...
Even my mom thinks your wrong. In 10000 miles you've yet to learn much and always go straight for an unnecessary personal attack, but I'm the troll.
Thats what you get for leaving ur account open... ur mom replys... Maybe someday you'll get as many replies as me and my hound have miles... That would elevate you to LW status... EPIC!!!
Thats what you get for leaving ur account open... ur mom replys... Maybe someday you'll get as many replies as me and my hound have miles... That would elevate you to LW status... EPIC!!!
You continue to prove the point that your incapable of not attacking others. If you hate Whiteblaze as much as you continue to state then go somewhere else. Your having more miles means nothing to me. I've been backpacking my whole life so I'm not in awe of your greatness.
On the hiker side of things: Hikers are just people on vacation. Hikers are not entitled to anything, they shouldn't be treated as charity cases. If you don't have the money to pay the bills then go home.
On the service provider side of things: Most of the trail businesses that use the tipping/donating scheme are doing it to get out of paying taxes or having the proper licenses or insurance. If they are doing that then they should expect to get screwed.
I really hate the concept of tips especially on the trail. Trail life is simple: I need food, water, and shelter. Don't complicate that purity with some game about what stuff actually costs. For me on the trail I tip at restaurants like normal, but if there is not a posted price for a service they will probably be disappointed. I have no problems paying when things are up front and simple.
Tru dat... Why is that sooo hard to figure out??? My bad ... Internet hikers...
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 14:10
OH SNAP BYTCHES... Thats what I'm sayin"... :banana...
You haven't said anything to back YOUR point. The only thing you have done is name call and act like you are right and everyone else is wrong.
You continue to prove the point that your incapable of not attacking others. If you hate Whiteblaze as much as you continue to state then go somewhere else. Your having more miles means nothing to me. I've been backpacking my whole life so I'm not in awe of your greatness.
I guess ur mom is still stickin' up for you!!! More power to you... Tell ur son I Don't hate WB Mz. Rastrakis... Even met some cool budz on here... Since I've NEVER used a hostel, it would seem I have know no idea what I'm saying... Alas,I know better... you want a "donation" so you can avoid paying taxes... Who is really getting screwed??? On a funnier note, not you??? lol...
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 14:23
Tru dat... Why is that sooo hard to figure out??? My bad ... Internet hikers...
Well... You seem to still be here. That lumps you in the same boat as being an "internet hiker."
kayak karl
08-12-2012, 14:23
On the service provider side of things: Most of the trail businesses that use the tipping/donating scheme are doing it to get out of paying taxes or having the proper licenses or insurance. If they are doing that then they should expect to get screwed.
and You make sure that loophole is taken care of.
most AT business owner are people that love the trail and want to help hikers (they are by far entrepreneurs :)). they try to keep the price low and your right, their good heart gets them screwed over and over again. most, eventually close down. i think in the near future you will be seeing more $35+ per night places. without the low priced competition they will charge the hikers big bucks. in other words "equivalent retaliation".:D
Another Kevin
08-12-2012, 14:28
On the hiker side of things: Hikers are just people on vacation. Hikers are not entitled to anything, they shouldn't be treated as charity cases. If you don't have the money to pay the bills then go home.
On the service provider side of things: Most of the trail businesses that use the tipping/donating scheme are doing it to get out of paying taxes or having the proper licenses or insurance. If they are doing that then they should expect to get screwed.
Wow, that's a cynical view of things. There are a lot of localities that set up the taxing, licensing, and insurance regimen with the intent of forcing businesses that cater to hikers out of business. (Hikers are vagrants - we don't want them stinking up our town!) Recasting a hostel as a charity helps to make it more acceptable politically - closing a trail hostel can be "cleaning up the town", but closing the equivalent of a homeless shelter can still come across as "heartless". In any case, I've never met a hostel-keeper who's getting rich off it.
But I'm not going to change the people who think that cynically. About the best I can do is to, when I'm in a "donations accepted" establishment, pay for myself and for the last guy who stiffed them. Which is fine with me - even when I do that, hiking is still a cheap vacation compared with other ways to travel. (Similarly, if you give me a ride and won't take gas money, make sure you check your seat cushions after you let me out.)
Maybe this shows that I'm just a clueless weekender, and don't have the assertiveness to be a Real Hiker. If you're a Real Hiker, do whatever it is you do. I'm just saying how I roll. What goes around comes around, and as it goes it grows.
Ain't it funny how these no tip cheapskates never sit down at a restaurant and tell the waiter/waitress, "Hey, I am not going to leave you a decent tip, maybe not going to leave you any tip". No, they enjoy the service knowing full well that their drinks will be refilled, they can request extra's and be treated like normal paying customers when in fact they are playing the server on trust and have every intention of shafting them out of the tip. Thieves, cowards and punks. Ain't man enough to stand up for what they are. Cheat some hard working old woman or working mom out of her pay and brag about it.
You haven't said anything to back YOUR point. The only thing you have done is name call and act like you are right and everyone else is wrong.
I'm so misunderstood :cool:... I see you have a female avitar, my bad... BYTCHES did not apply to you :eek:... It was just slang for a mad diss by SLY... You took it out of context... Hostels that work on "donations" do so to avoid paying taxes was what I was replying to... Its not just Hostel's either, to be fair...
Water Rat
08-12-2012, 14:34
Wow, that's a cynical view of things. There are a lot of localities that set up the taxing, licensing, and insurance regimen with the intent of forcing businesses that cater to hikers out of business. (Hikers are vagrants - we don't want them stinking up our town!) Recasting a hostel as a charity helps to make it more acceptable politically - closing a trail hostel can be "cleaning up the town", but closing the equivalent of a homeless shelter can still come across as "heartless". In any case, I've never met a hostel-keeper who's getting rich off it.
But I'm not going to change the people who think that cynically. About the best I can do is to, when I'm in a "donations accepted" establishment, pay for myself and for the last guy who stiffed them. Which is fine with me - even when I do that, hiking is still a cheap vacation compared with other ways to travel. (Similarly, if you give me a ride and won't take gas money, make sure you check your seat cushions after you let me out.)
Maybe this shows that I'm just a clueless weekender, and don't have the assertiveness to be a Real Hiker. If you're a Real Hiker, do whatever it is you do. I'm just saying how I roll. What goes around comes around, and as it goes it grows.
Wow, that's a cynical view of things. There are a lot of localities that set up the taxing, licensing, and insurance regimen with the intent of forcing businesses that cater to hikers out of business. (Hikers are vagrants - we don't want them stinking up our town!) Recasting a hostel as a charity helps to make it more acceptable politically - closing a trail hostel can be "cleaning up the town", but closing the equivalent of a homeless shelter can still come across as "heartless". In any case, I've never met a hostel-keeper who's getting rich off it.
But I'm not going to change the people who think that cynically. About the best I can do is to, when I'm in a "donations accepted" establishment, pay for myself and for the last guy who stiffed them. Which is fine with me - even when I do that, hiking is still a cheap vacation compared with other ways to travel. (Similarly, if you give me a ride and won't take gas money, make sure you check your seat cushions after you let me out.)
Maybe this shows that I'm just a clueless weekender, and don't have the assertiveness to be a Real Hiker. If you're a Real Hiker, do whatever it is you do. I'm just saying how I roll. What goes around comes around, and as it goes it grows.
Another Kevin - I don't think there is anything clueless about ya! :) You are right - What goes around, comes around. And, hiking definitely is cheap compared to a lot of other vacations!
Ain't it funny how these no tip cheapskates never sit down at a restaurant and tell the waiter/waitress, "Hey, I am not going to leave you a decent tip, maybe not going to leave you any tip". No, they enjoy the service knowing full well that their drinks will be refilled, they can request extra's and be treated like normal paying customers when in fact they are playing the server on trust and have every intention of shafting them out of the tip. Thieves, cowards and punks. Ain't man enough to stand up for what they are. Cheat some hard working old woman or working mom out of her pay and brag about it.
The same people bring up that the owner should pay the full wage of the servers, which is what most European restaurants do. They fail to take into account that the same meal is 20-25% more in Europe than in the US. Most restaurant servers are paid a base wage of 50% of the minimum wage and tips are the majority of their wages. The next assumption is that servers don't pay taxes on tips which is wrong again. They have to declare a % of the tips and pay taxes on them. Servers are also auditted more often then most other tax payers.
Nutbrown
08-12-2012, 14:39
If a given establishment thinks they should be paid extra just for doing their job-- which is to provide food and/or lodging, then they should consider going into another business.
You are embarassing. Wait staff are paid under $3/hour. Tips are taxed and are expected as part of their pay.
That said.. if some shmuck stinks up the place with ciggarettes and the stench of alcohol and leaves litter everywhere or doesn't clean up after them selves.. than they deserve to get stuck with an extra fee.
What about the stench that we hikers leave behind? Did you think you smelled like roses?
What about the stench that we hikers leave behind? Did you think you smelled like roses?
Also when you stiff a server they pay taxes on the amount you should have tipped. Their declared tips must be a state mandated % of their sales!
ChinMusic
08-12-2012, 15:09
Also when you stiff a server they pay taxes on the amount you should have tipped. Their declared tips must be a state mandated % of their sales!
What is the list of services that falls into this tax trap? Is it limited to restaurants?
What is the list of services that falls into this tax trap? Is it limited to restaurants?
I only know that restaurant servers are subject to this, but other tipped industries may have similar rules. They have to declare tips based on a % of their sales. The taxes on their tips in North Carolina are based on sales not the actual tipped amount. The state does this because the only real records are sales.
WalksInDark
08-12-2012, 18:13
I have worked and lived at all ends of the income/wealth spectrum. However, the thing that I never have forgotten is that almost everyone appreciates a little kindness. For folks who are running a small service business and only ask for "Donations" and for all of the "little people" who make the world go around (wait staff, cabbies, shuttle drivers, pizza delivery folks, the people who clean the showers/bathrooms, etc.) I feel that it makes ME FEEL BETTER if I can tip. I won't try to tell you how much you should tip...but my rule of thumb is this, "What amount of money would make me feel good to get as a tip...if I were the one providing the service?" BTW, following my own tipping rules means I never have to worry that I am going to get bad service from someone who I have previously stiffed/left no or too little tip.
Also, I NEVER TIP rude people or folks whose customer service is poor. :mad: Instead, before I leave I actually tell them to their faces why I will not be tipping them.
Maybe it is me, but in my experience, the folks who most often don't tip/tip poorly are the same folks who are saving up their money to buy THEMSELVES some special treat along the way.
Ain't it funny how these no tip cheapskates never sit down at a restaurant and tell the waiter/waitress, "Hey, I am not going to leave you a decent tip, maybe not going to leave you any tip". No, they enjoy the service knowing full well that their drinks will be refilled, they can request extra's and be treated like normal paying customers when in fact they are playing the server on trust and have every intention of shafting them out of the tip. Thieves, cowards and punks. Ain't man enough to stand up for what they are. Cheat some hard working old woman or working mom out of her pay and brag about it.
In my experinece a great many people who would never leave less than 15% -- and whoe usually leave more -- at a restaraunt have no qualms stiffing the housekeeper when making up thier room at a $100+ night hotel.
I have been guilt of this myself.
I wonder how many others have beeen as low brow as me? I am sure from the tone of TD55s post he always leaves 5 or 10 bucks for the housekeeper, but what about everyone else? How much do you leave at for an inexpensive motel night, and how much did you tip the crew at the huts (whether or not you did a work for stay)?
Old Hiker
08-12-2012, 18:50
In my experinece a great many people who would never leave less than 15% -- and whoe usually leave more -- at a restaraunt have no qualms stiffing the housekeeper when making up thier room at a $100+ night hotel.
I have been guilt of this myself.
I wonder how many others have beeen as low brow as me? I am sure from the tone of TD55s post he always leaves 5 or 10 bucks for the housekeeper, but what about everyone else? How much do you leave at for an inexpensive motel night, and how much did you tip the crew at the huts (whether or not you did a work for stay)?
I've seen how hard the housekeepers work and I always leave $5 per night. Haven't made it to the huts yet - tip will depend on service. I always try to tip - never have asked if the person providing the service was the owner - why would it matter?
#2 boy was a waiter for a long time - it's an easy way to finance a drug habit (his - not saying all waitstaff are druggies) - lots of money rolling in, minimal taxes paid, cash for whatever. Also easy to lie about your bills: didn't get many tips last night, don't have the money for rent/electric/water/whatever.
Kryptonite
08-12-2012, 19:46
I've seen how hard the housekeepers work and I always leave $5 per night. Haven't made it to the huts yet - tip will depend on service. I always try to tip - never have asked if the person providing the service was the owner - why would it matter?
#2 boy was a waiter for a long time - it's an easy way to finance a drug habit (his - not saying all waitstaff are druggies) - lots of money rolling in, minimal taxes paid, cash for whatever. Also easy to lie about your bills: didn't get many tips last night, don't have the money for rent/electric/water/whatever.
Old Hiker, you seem like a good man and I am sorry that your son had a problem with drugs. But most waiters/servers are very hard working people. So many are single moms or working their way through school or just trying to survive. Because our economy is so slow right now, all across the country restaurants are closing, hours are being cut and less tips are being left. There are very, very few servers who are making really good money. Even those who work in Vegas have seen their tips diminish, although admittedly some of them are quite well-paid.
I am sure from the tone of TD55s post he always leaves 5 or 10 bucks for the housekeeper, but what about everyone else? How much do you leave at for an inexpensive motel night, and how much did you tip the crew at the huts (whether or not you did a work for stay)?
I did not know until a few years ago that I was expected to leave a housekeeper tip. I guess I stiffed a few housekeepers.
ChinMusic
08-12-2012, 21:14
I did not know until a few years ago that I was expected to leave a housekeeper tip. I guess I stiffed a few housekeepers.
I am nearly your age. WhiteBlaze was the first time I had ever heard of it.
I'm wondering if it is a regional thing.
MuddyWaters
08-12-2012, 22:23
I tip generously when I have been served above expectations.
I tip minimally when service was very poor.
No one is supposed to make so much money as a server, that they want to do it forever. But many do, thanks to insane tipping guidelines.
Had a girlfriend in college waitressed at a restraunt in a hotel where business travelers stayed. She worked only 2 nights a week, and made about $500, largely unreported, and that was 25 yrs ago.
I tip generously when I have been served above expectations.
I tip minimally when service was very poor.
No one is supposed to make so much money as a server, that they want to do it forever. But many do, thanks to insane tipping guidelines.
Had a girlfriend in college waitressed at a restraunt in a hotel where business travelers stayed. She worked only 2 nights a week, and made about $500, largely unreported, and that was 25 yrs ago.
That kind of money is the exception not the rule. More typical would be 10 hours and $90 in gratuity. With oddball $20 or $200 days.
394 hikers through Bastian and I have the count because every one of them came and stayed at my Dojo. shuttled them, gave them accommodating, showers, some stayed up to 5 days. I have helped with cash shortages, equipment failures, and "Get me home, please!" I have to date not taken a single penny from any of them. Why? Fort Bastian Recreation will stand by its credo off being there FOR the hikers not the hikers are there to give me a business. Profiteering from hikers in my opinion is low. Obviously the profiteers never hiked anywhere but to the store a block away! LOL. I now have 394 ambassadors fro Fort Bastian, word of mouth advertizing = Priceless. Thank you to all my guests, best of luck to you and come back soon. Oh and by the way shuttling in a private vehicle is illegal in every State in the USA. you are not a hackneyed licensed and insured vehicle and as such cannot charge a fare paying passenger. Do it for the magic not the profit.
SassyWindsor
08-13-2012, 01:00
Tipping? Just getting most thru-hikers, I talking long distance and not section hikers, to pay their fair share is almost a miracle. You got them bugging you for this and that, especially money. Ultra light hikers never bring all they need, so hence the ultra light, and they are the worst about wanting this and that. Getting them to pay honor-system type fees are a joke. These guys are beach-bums without a beach.
Water Rat great answer. Toli your wrong as usual.
Toli your wrong as usual. I rest my case moron...
Water Rat great answer. Toli your wrong as usual.
Toli your wrong as usual. I rest my case moron...
The comeback of a six year old.
Lone Wolf
08-13-2012, 03:20
Profiteering from hikers in my opinion is low. Obviously the profiteers never hiked anywhere but to the store a block away! Do it for the magic not the profit.
really. so MRO for example should just sell everything to hikers at cost but all others pay retail? Damascus Dave (owner) has thru-hiked the AT and walked thousands of other miles. why not make money off hikers? they're tourists on vacation like anybody else. nothing special about walking a trail. they don't have to be out there.
Without getting into some of the vitriol going down around here I am paying a lot of attention to this as I want to be remembered well next year and down my way we as a whole DON'T TIP. Very unAustralian behaviour to tip.
This is generally reflected in the level of service you get.:(
Except in major tourist places accustomed to foreigners tipping is not expected.
I understand the norm is different in the US and often automatically added, and while I am not that well to do that I am in a position to throw money around, I certainly am happy to tip for service. If the service is shyte I will probably let my background overrule my goodwill....:D
Water Rat
08-13-2012, 05:54
I'm so misunderstood :cool:... I see you have a female avitar, my bad... BYTCHES did not apply to you :eek:... It was just slang for a mad diss by SLY... You took it out of context... Hostels that work on "donations" do so to avoid paying taxes was what I was replying to... Its not just Hostel's either, to be fair...
No, Toli. I highly doubt I took anything out of context. Rather than call people names and say stuff about other people (and their mothers), why don't you use your words and pass on information regarding the extensive hiking you have done? That would do far more to prove your point.
Kryptonite
08-13-2012, 08:19
I doubt that Toli even exists. He's just some troll...:cool:
MuddyWaters
08-13-2012, 08:24
That kind of money is the exception not the rule. More typical would be 10 hours and $90 in gratuity. With oddball $20 or $200 days.
I grew up in a resort area. It wasnt uncommon for waitresses to maek $100 /night in tips in the early 80s. My sister did that in HS and weekends, that was about what she made. I knew bartenders that made $200/nigh on fri and sat., unreported. Then they drew unemployment 4 mo out of the yr because their jobs were seasonal.
Some people make A LOT of money on tips.
We has a college intern about 10 yrs ago, was paid an engineers starting salary for her summer job. This was ~$50,000 probably at that tim. She also worked at Hooters. She made more money working at hooters that summer, than her engineering job paid.
kayak karl
08-13-2012, 08:26
Do it for the magic not the profit.
maybe your part of the problem. hiker being GIVEN things is maybe why so many feel entitled. hiker feeds are a good example of this.
i would do more things for magic if Verizon would accept it for payment:D
Kryptonite
08-13-2012, 08:31
maybe your part of the problem. hiker being GIVEN things is maybe why so many feel entitled. hiker feeds are a good example of this.
i would do more things for magic if Verizon would accept it for payment:D
I'm not sure this is fair. Trubrit and his wife have truly helped the hiking community and they were really generous at Trail Days. I guess he just needs to realize that most hostels and shuttle drivers have to pay their bills like everyone else - thus they really do need to charge for their services, which is completely fair.
kayak karl
08-13-2012, 08:38
I'm not sure this is fair. Trubrit and his wife have truly helped the hiking community and they were really generous at Trail Days. I guess he just needs to realize that most hostels and shuttle drivers have to pay their bills like everyone else - thus they really do need to charge for their services, which is completely fair.
he could of stated his point without insulting others "Profiteering from hikers in my opinion is low. Obviously the profiteers never hiked anywhere but to the store a block away!"
Lone Wolf
08-13-2012, 08:45
I'm not sure this is fair. Trubrit and his wife have truly helped the hiking community and they were really generous at Trail Days. I guess he just needs to realize that most hostels and shuttle drivers have to pay their bills like everyone else - thus they really do need to charge for their services, which is completely fair.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with makin' money (profiteering) off of hikers. plenty of money to be made of them if you do it right
SouthMark
08-13-2012, 08:53
Maybe we should start another thread "Should Hotels, Restaurants and Airlines Profit from Vacationers?"
max patch
08-13-2012, 09:56
(1) I now have 394 ambassadors fro Fort Bastian, word of mouth advertizing = Priceless.
(2) Oh and by the way shuttling in a private vehicle is illegal in every State in the USA. you are not a hackneyed licensed and insured vehicle and as such cannot charge a fare paying passenger. Do it for the magic not the profit.
This is not meant as a criticism in any way to Trubrit and I hope it is not taken as such:
(1) So rather than charge hikers money it would appear that Trubit has decided it is a smart business decision to have happy hikers advertise his business thru word of mouth thus allowing Truebrit to ultimately PROFIT from said advertising. Nothing wrong with being a "profiteer".
(2) I don't know if its "illegal" but I do agree that regular car insurance will not cover anyone -- drivers or passengers -- in case of an accident. Passengers can sue the driver thus the driver is literally putting all his assets at risk for a small shuttle fee. Shuttlers should be familar with Murphys Law.
I leave tips for good service, larger tips for exceptional service. Kinda like what the original purpose of tips were. I have never gotten a shuttle ride without tipping (except maybe Ron Haven's bus for some reason, not sure why I didn't - should have). I know a LOT of folks who make ridiculous amounts of undeclared money in restaurant tips. I always leave more than the requested fee/donation for a hostel.
However, I refuse to return to businesses who automatically add "gratuity" to their bills, just like I have little sympathy for businesses who suggest a "donation" and then complain when less is given. To me these are using semantics to get around something, like paying a working wage or some type of regulation.
Regarding housekeeping tips. If I pay $100 a night or more for a Holiday Inn, then I expect a clean room to be what I'm paying for. I always clean the room to a reasonable level before leaving - trash in trashcans, dirty towels gathered on edge of tub, beds straightened, any spills wiped up, refrigerator empty, coffee maker empty and rinsed, etc. Common courtesy in my opinion, just as I would at a friend's. I have left tips at lower cost motels, but I'm not consistent.
That kind of money is the exception not the rule. More typical would be 10 hours and $90 in gratuity. With oddball $20 or $200 days.
I grew up in a resort area. It wasnt uncommon for waitresses to maek $100 /night in tips in the early 80s. My sister did that in HS and weekends, that was about what she made. I knew bartenders that made $200/nigh on fri and sat., unreported. Then they drew unemployment 4 mo out of the yr because their jobs were seasonal.
Some people make A LOT of money on tips.
We has a college intern about 10 yrs ago, was paid an engineers starting salary for her summer job. This was ~$50,000 probably at that tim. She also worked at Hooters. She made more money working at hooters that summer, than her engineering job paid.
Hooters girls are the exception!
One big difference between now and the 80's is how little cash is used for payment at restaurants (Bars not included in this) 90% of the customers pay with a debit or credit card which makes it very difficult for the server not to pay taxes. When I first started cooking all the servers hid their incomes. Now with the computer systems in use at most restaurants its not so easy.
In the mid 80's when I started good servers where making more than they do now. I absolutely agree about the bartenders making crazy money on Friday and Saturday nights.
fiddlehead
08-13-2012, 10:19
One of the things I like about living in Thailand is: You don't have to tip.
Thai people almost never do.
So, if I get good service, I leave a small tip.
It always brings a smile to the face of the recipient and good feelings.
There are no rules.
But, in the states, there are rules. Sly posted some.
You tip for this, but not for this, you tip the worker, but not the owner, you tip the waitress, but not the plumber, you tip 15-20% when you tip waitresses........blah blah blah. I can't remember it all.
Think about it folks.
Who started tipping and why?
I don't know the answer but I'll assume it was because someone got good service and felt like showing how happy they were for that good service.
But, what has it become?
As a musician, I probably get tipped about once a month (maybe I play for 5,000 people in a months time) so, OK, I do get tipped sometimes but ALWAYS feel it was because I made someone's night and played a song they really liked.
I'm ok with that.
I don't make a lot of money playing music but, like all my jobs/careers/work history, I've always done things that I like to do.
Anyway, rant over. I'm returning to the states in 2 weeks and will do my best to remember who I'm supposed to tip and who doesn't get one.
Maybe (hopefully) someday, our society will go back to folks giving away money simply for something you feel was above and beyond the call of someone's job.
Kryptonite
08-13-2012, 10:36
If service is bad, not only do I not tip, but I will usually complain or call the management later - if it is really bad. But likewise if service is really good, I will overtip and call the management and give them lots of compliments. I call far more on good service than bad.
If service is good, but not great - I will tip 15-20%.
WalksInDark
08-13-2012, 20:19
There seems to be some real confusion on tips, the IRS, and the real world. In the last few places I worked, no matter how little we made in tips on a particular night a set amount of tip earnings was declared (by management) so that the bar/grill owner did not have to pay the bar tenders and wait staff the minimum hourly wage. Second, given that over 90% of my last tips were given via credit card payments, the owner made sure that all of that money was declared to the IRS so that he did not end up getting any IRS penalties. While I never experienced this, I have heard that at some "high tip earning" establishments (and I admit, this makes sense after a bar/grill owner gets audited by the IRS), the owners make waitstaff declare a certain percentage of their submitted credit card charges as tip earnings. Sure, there is the odd buck or two that does not show up on credit card bill payments ...but if you add up the 1.5 hour setup time plus the same 1.5 hour normal bar/grill take down/recovery time, the cash tip money you get during the 3-4 hour service period typically does not end up being much more than gas money.
In all of the states that I have ever worked in, unemployment insurance payments were calculated on hourly earnings...not tip earnings. So how much or little you get in tips has no impact on unemployment payments.
Oh yea, the IRS does do audits where they pull credit card receipts...calculates the amount of tips generated and then "imputes" that whenever they suspect that bar tenders/wait staff have not been paying their fair share.
Bud don't get me started on how paper boys and girls get "the big bucks" with their Christmas bonus, LOL.
Hairbear
08-13-2012, 21:20
everyone should be self employed or work with the public at least once in their life.trying to get people to pay whats fair is the biggest pain in the a.. there is.
I have been a volunteer caretaker at the cabin on Upper Goose Pond for the past 10 years. When I first started the posted price to stay was; $3.00 per night in the cabin and $2.00 if you tented. This price included a pancake and coffee breakfast. Some of the caretakers were reluclant to ask those staying for the fee so several years ago they decided to stop charging a fee. Donations are now excepted only. The difference in the total amount collected is about the same amount. Many thru-hikers do not pay anything at all. The slack has been taken up by a few who realize what a bargan staying at the cabin is and give an excptional amount.
Seatbelt
08-14-2012, 12:53
I have received several shuttle rides while section-hiking the AT and have not been tipping over and above the asked fee. Am I supposed to or am I out of line or ???
hikerboy57
08-14-2012, 12:54
im not sure i understand the argument at all. backpacking is without a doubt the cheapest vacation you could possibly do(once youve got all your gear) without just staying at home.so if you have to tip a little or pay a little to ensure that those services will endure, what in the world is the problem? have we become so entitled that we feel the world owes us a thru hike?nothingwrong at all with paynig for a service, even if it isnt required.
its almost like saying gear manufacturers should donate gear to any prospective thru hiker to cut down that individuals expense?
what in the world is wrong with supporting the people who give so much to support to us?
Lone Wolf
08-14-2012, 12:55
I have received several shuttle rides while section-hiking the AT and have not been tipping over and above the asked fee. Am I supposed to or am I out of line or ???
i run a lot of shuttles. i ask for a certain fee, that's it. i won't take tips
JohnWayne
08-14-2012, 13:05
i run a lot of shuttles. i ask for a certain fee, that's it. i won't take tips
It is plain foolish to me to not accept tips for a service. They ain't buying your body, Lone Wolf! At least I reckon not. ;)When service is extra good people want to express that. Ain't nothin wrong with that. In fact it kind of seems a little stuck up not to accept a tip. Like you are too good for it. Might want to rethink this. I dont think anyone ever had a tip refused and thought well ain't that nice! Naw, they're think What's his problem?
kayak karl
08-14-2012, 16:38
It is plain foolish to me to not accept tips for a service. When service is extra good people want to express that. Ain't nothin wrong with that. In fact it kind of seems a little stuck up not to accept a tip. Like you are too good for it. Might want to rethink this. I dont think anyone ever had a tip refused and thought well ain't that nice! Naw, they're think What's his problem?
i refuse tips always and say "no thank you, but if you appreciated my service tell your friends. here, take my cards and TY and have a good day." it goes back to not tipping the boss.
i refuse tips always and say "no thank you, but if you appreciated my service tell your friends. here, take my cards and TY and have a good day." it goes back to not tipping the boss.
Excellent method. Every once and I while I get a tip that's extremely hard to refuse after the customer insists. I take it knowing to refuse the second time would insult them. I'm not supposed to take tips at work so I give it to the dishwashers instead.
Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.
Lone Wolf
08-14-2012, 19:05
Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.
oh really. how do the electric, water, sewer, mowing and upkeep bills get paid? if you use the hostel and don't pay the the $6 you're pretty much a sad excuse for a hiker and a human being. just my opinion
To me, a donation is voluntary.
As a consumer, we must understand that there are expenses associated with running any type of public service. If we are able (and if we are out hiking for an extended time, we should be able) it is our obligation to help defray those costs. A suggested donation tells me this is the minimum average needed to cover expenses - so I give more since I can. On the other hand, calling it a donation implies to me that they do not wish to turn individuals down if they are short right now, and can't leave the SUGGESTED donation.
I guess that is the problem for those facilities that choose to use ambiguous terms when communicating with their patrons - everyone gets to apply their own definitions and meanings.
Lone Wolf
08-14-2012, 19:25
and to most hikers it means FREE HOSTEL.
rocketsocks
08-14-2012, 19:27
and to most hikers it means FREE HOSTEL.
Tipping the jar does not always mean the same to all people, or the direction it tips....shame!
Didn't mean the above to be specifically targeted at The Place. If the sign states, as LW says "$6/night - Honor System" Then it should be assumed that that is a charge, and if you don't have it - tent.
Many other places, however, are still asking for donations, or suggesting donations, and complaining when they don't get them. Partially their fault, especially since they know the entitled attitude that seems to take over too many long-distance hikers.
Lone Wolf
08-14-2012, 19:29
it's disturbing to think a hiker would not even pay the minimum to use a facility and not feel bad about it yet spend cash on beer, dope, tobacco and restaurant food in town.
rocketsocks
08-14-2012, 19:31
yeah, I don't get that. If you don't have the money to go hiking....don't go! simple...
atmilkman
08-14-2012, 19:32
I blame a lot of it on MTV.
Ok LW, honestly, do MOST hikers not leave anything? I know this is a pet peeve of yours and TOW's, so it looms large in your mind. Is it really true that MOST do not leave anything? Not trying to challenge you on it, but is that accurate or are you maybe exaggerating a bit because you are so close to it?
If this is true, then hikers, as a group, should be ashamed of themselves for not policing themselves better. Where is the peer pressure? Other hikers have to see this. Would everyone just stand by while another hiker bathed in a spring, or broke planks off a shelter wall for firewood? I doubt it.
Lone Wolf
08-14-2012, 19:50
Ok LW, honestly, do MOST hikers not leave anything? I know this is a pet peeve of yours and TOW's, so it looms large in your mind. Is it really true that MOST do not leave anything? Not trying to challenge you on it, but is that accurate or are you maybe exaggerating a bit because you are so close to it?
If this is true, then hikers, as a group, should be ashamed of themselves for not policing themselves better. Where is the peer pressure? Other hikers have to see this. Would everyone just stand by while another hiker bathed in a spring, or broke planks off a shelter wall for firewood? I doubt it.
TOW and I don' have access to the donation box. the caretaker, during the busy season comes every other day or so to collect the money. we tell him how many hikers were there and how many nites they stayed. the box is always short. last fall 8 SOBOs stayed 2 or 3 nites. they left nothing. that's just one example
HikerMom58
08-14-2012, 20:15
Well guys, I will have an opportunity to judge what a free-loader hiker appears to be like, myself, I guess. I'm not sure what conversation we will get ourselves into- BUT if the subject comes up? Yeah, it will be hard to hide the true self. It has to do with a person's character, that's what it's all about. I'll be sure to give you MHO of the character of this person. It's a learned behavior. They won't change for anyone, really. As long as it keeps on working for them, there's no reason to change.
Wise Old Owl
08-14-2012, 20:24
TOW and I don' have access to the donation box. the caretaker, during the busy season comes every other day or so to collect the money. we tell him how many hikers were there and how many nites they stayed. the box is always short. last fall 8 SOBOs stayed 2 or 3 nites. they left nothing. that's just one example
wow that's sad...
Wise Old Owl
08-14-2012, 20:30
Software fail
JohnWayne
08-14-2012, 20:30
Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.
Well sir, with a notion like that, you and the Care Bear Family must have gotten along mighty well! Seems like you two have more in common than we thought.
Sometimes honor means a heap lot more than being a freeloader. It means not taken advantage of the good graces of others. Running those hostels ain't free and when you stay at a place knowing they kind of need $6 or more to cover you it is mighty low to make others pay your share.
JohnWayne
08-14-2012, 20:35
Well guys, I will have an opportunity to judge what a free-loader hiker appears to be like, myself, I guess. I'm not sure what conversation we will get ourselves into- BUT if the subject comes up? Yeah, it will be hard to hide the true self. It has to do with a person's character, that's what it's all about. I'll be sure to give you MHO of the character of this person. It's a learned behavior. They won't change for anyone, really. As long as it keeps on working for them, there's no reason to change.
But if you yourself are helping them, no offense, but in your own words - there's no reason for them to change.
HikerMom58
08-14-2012, 22:52
But if you yourself are helping them, no offense, but in your own words - there's no reason for them to change.
I understand what you are saying. The kind of help I'm giving them, IMHO, will fall far short(understatement) of the real help that is needed here. I don't want to enable but more of a reaching out, in a situation, that is way "too much" for anyone of us to understand or expect immediate change.(or change of any kind) I totally understand where you are coming from, John, and I agree with what you are saying... what would you do? I'm really interested to hear your opinion.
ChinMusic
08-14-2012, 23:04
Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.
I swear I just saw the Aflac Duck...........
Kryptonite
08-15-2012, 09:00
Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.
I hope that you do not stay in any of these hostels then. Because that is simply being a freeloader. And I will say it if no one else here will - you are the very kind of hiker who gives the rest of us a bad name if you leave nothing or less than what it costs to help run these hostels. It is a mindset like that which has caused so many hostels to close.
A donation is charity or a gift, and thus voluntary. That's how the word is defined. I think its pretty tacky for someone to tell someone else how big of a gift they should give them. If you don't want to get stiffed, charge a fee and collect it upfront. If you ask for voluntary donations, don't complain when when some people don't volunteer. Seems pretty simple to me. If you're operating a business, you're in it to make a profit. Charge a fee. Donations are for churches and charities. Don't confuse people into thinking you're not a business by asking for donations. Churches, charities and individuals operate on donations because they are motivated by something other than the money...if they break even money wise they are getting for free what motivated them in the first place...seems like a pretty good deal to me.
Lybarger
08-16-2012, 06:26
The word "donation' is used so that a hostel is not considered a business and subject to so many regulations, fees, taxes. It may sound shady, but otherwise most every hostel on the AT would have to charge $40 or $50 a person + tax. How many hikers would be able to pay that amount.
Several posts here have recommended that hostels get legit. If that happens, be ready to spend alot more time in the woods...and smell a little worse.
Supreme Being
08-16-2012, 06:47
A donation is charity or a gift, and thus voluntary. That's how the word is defined. I think its pretty tacky for someone to tell someone else how big of a gift they should give them. If you don't want to get stiffed, charge a fee and collect it upfront. If you ask for voluntary donations, don't complain when when some people don't volunteer. Seems pretty simple to me. If you're operating a business, you're in it to make a profit. Charge a fee. Donations are for churches and charities. Don't confuse people into thinking you're not a business by asking for donations. Churches, charities and individuals operate on donations because they are motivated by something other than the money...if they break even money wise they are getting for free what motivated them in the first place...seems like a pretty good deal to me.
Pretty tacky to tell someone how big a gift they should leave them?? That is a laugh. Many people have no idea what it costs to run these hostels and so facilities suggest a donation.
Tacky is when you stay at a hostel instead of in your tent and go out to eat/drink beer and buy other items and then leave them little or nothing for putting you up. Most of these hostels suggest $5-$10 as a donation. You take a shower and use their supplies and then stiff them? What kind of person can justify this? Many churches out of faith and goodness open up hostels for the sole purpose of helping out hikers as a demonstration of their faith. Do you see ANY hostel running on donations who is getting rich? Heck no! They are barely scrapping by and a great many have been forced to close because of cheap people like you who try to rationalize it in their own mind. Now THAT is tacky.
when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.
Definition of DONATION
: the act or an instance of donating (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/donating): as a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b : a free contribution : gift (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gift)
That does not mean not giving, on the contrary, it means giving!
Supreme Being
08-16-2012, 07:01
Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.
Red-Dog mentions somewhere that he is going to "take care of the Care Bear bill" at The Place around Christmas - so in about 4 months. With an attitude like this, I doubt that The Place gets anything from him.
ChinMusic
08-16-2012, 08:51
The word "donation' is used so that a hostel is not considered a business and subject to so many regulations, fees, taxes. It may sound shady, but otherwise most every hostel on the AT would have to charge $40 or $50 a person + tax. How many hikers would be able to pay that amount.
Several posts here have recommended that hostels get legit. If that happens, be ready to spend alot more time in the woods...and smell a little worse.
this......
this is a pet peeve of mine.
some will justify their lack of tipping, by stating how important THEIR journey is and tipping would put a strain on THEIR fiances to complete THEIR dream.
others do not understand donations at hostels. i feel the donation asked for is the minimum they need to keep it open, but feel free to donate more.
shuttle drivers are others that can be tipped. if the drive was free from hostel i aways tipped the driver.
when in town, what impression do you leave with business owners by how you tip?
please run with this :D like i need to ask:rolleyes:
KK&K
+1 KK&K!
Yes, some dreams cost a bit of money to make come to fruition. That shouldn't be someone else's problem - You are the one who chose to partake of your dream. Think of ALL the costs that have gone up the past few years - gas, food, electricity, water, etc... Those costs haven't just gone up for the people who are undertaking their hike. Those costs have also gone up for all the shuttle drivers, hostel providers, and everyone out there who is helping to make your dream come true.
If a $6 donation (to use as an example) is required... Wow. I can't imagine how a place could be run on $6 a night. If everyone gave just the bare minimum, or skipped out on the donation, just how long would that business be around? Shouldn't the people who partake of these services do their best to make sure the same services will be around for future hiking classes?
As with any group, there are some who choose to Hike Their Own Hike in ways that are less than considerate to their hiking brethren. Obnoxious town behavior, expecting everyone to bow down to them because they are hiking the AT (or the PCT or the CDT...), just being inconsiderate in general. These behaviors tend to reflect on more than just that one person. It reflects on the rest of the hikers out there. If someone skips out on a bill, and the behavior repeats, then it makes ALL of us look bad. Eventually, the services will not be offered.
Excuses should not be tolerated. If you didn't have the money, you should not have partaken of the services. It is not up to others to foot the bill for you. It is up to you to pay your own way. If you don't have the money, stay in your tent. Seems pretty simple to me. Don't come up with excuses.
As for tipping and free rides - Think about what that person is giving up to haul your butt around. They didn't have to give up their morning/afternoon/evening to make sure you got to where you wanted to go. If you want people to go the extra mile for you in the future, then you'd better make sure to make it worth their while. "Free" for you, does not equate to "free" for them.
Tipping in restaurants - Most (there are exceptions!) wait staff will bust their butts to get your meal to you as soon as they can. They don't make a lot of money doing this job. Tipping them small amounts (compared to the bill)...or not tipping at all...will just cause them to become jaded and look at all hikers as trash. Why bust your butt for someone who won't even bother with a tip? Nope. They will spend more of their time waiting on the tables that actually will tip. That doesn't make anyone feel good, especially the hiker who really wants to leave a nice tip.
The bottom line - Yeah, these things will run up the cost of your hike. But, you were the one who chose to hike the trail. You were the one who chose to partake of services along the way. Don't stiff the people who are helping to make YOUR hike possible.
Guess that is a pet peeve of mine, too.
excellent thread suggestion kkand i agree with you water rat...
atmilkman
08-16-2012, 10:49
Red-Dog mentions somewhere that he is going to "take care of the Care Bear bill" at The Place around Christmas - so in about 4 months. With an attitude like this, I doubt that The Place gets anything from him.
This is what you call multi-purpose. Paying a bill and claiming it as a donation. Sounds like it's gonna be a tax deduction to me. "I give to the Place in Damascus Virginia", (never mind that it's actually an overdue bill.) I feel good about myself.
awe dam....I really cannot imagine someone stiffing a person that is there to help them, it must be a mind set that they grow up with...people are out to gouge them. Shame!
some people are notorious for slapping the hand that feeds them the most...
The word "donation' is used so that a hostel is not considered a business and subject to so many regulations, fees, taxes. It may sound shady, but otherwise most every hostel on the AT would have to charge $40 or $50 a person + tax. How many hikers would be able to pay that amount.
Several posts here have recommended that hostels get legit. If that happens, be ready to spend alot more time in the woods...and smell a little worse.
Funny thing that happens when you operate 'legit' is that you get paid. And I know that many do the 'donation' deal in order to avoid complying with regulations and to avoid paying taxes. Point is this is a failed business model being that so many close or complain about not getting enough 'donations' unless you have other motivations beside making a profit or even breaking even. The ones that operate in the gray areas do not get the protection of the laws they are trying to dodge. If these kinds of hostels were profitable there would be franchises all up and down the trail...but there are not. I think a lot of people get into the hostel business with unrealistic expectations...its real simple, if you ask for a donation, don't complain when people don't volunteer to do so. If you want to get paid, charge a fee and collect it up front.
Pretty tacky to tell someone how big a gift they should leave them?? That is a laugh. Many people have no idea what it costs to run these hostels and so facilities suggest a donation.
It is absolutely tacky. Most people have no idea how much it costs to run a church, but they do not post a sign at the door with a suggestion for the collection plate. If they did, it would be very tacky and people would probably really begin to question what that church was all about.
Tacky is when you stay at a hostel instead of in your tent and go out to eat/drink beer and buy other items and then leave them little or nothing for putting you up. Most of these hostels suggest $5-$10 as a donation. You take a shower and use their supplies and then stiff them? What kind of person can justify this?
I haven't seen anyone suggest that people should spend a bunch of money at the bar and come stumbling back to the hostel only to leave the next morning without making a donation. I haven't seen anyone suggesting that anyone is getting rich running a hostel...I've made points to the contrary. What has been suggested is that many people such as yourself whine and complain about people who don't voluntarily give the amount you think they should, and that there is a very simple solution: charge a fee.
Many churches out of faith and goodness open up hostels for the sole purpose of helping out hikers as a demonstration of their faith. Do you see ANY hostel running on donations who is getting rich?
If they do it for the 'sole purpose of helping out hikers as a demonstration of their faith' then they are motivated by something other than the money and you fail to make any reasonable point. If the hostel owner isn't whining about donations then you shouldn't do so on their behalf. If the owner is whining about it, they need to re-evaluate their business model.
Heck no! They are barely scrapping by and a great many have been forced to close because of cheap people like you who try to rationalize it in their own mind. Now THAT is tacky.
You make wild and inaccurate assumptions when you call me 'cheap.' You have no idea whether or how much I have donated or paid when staying at a hostel or anywhere else. My point in this whole discussion is that a donation is voluntary...I've never said whether or not I've volunteered to pay or how much I've volunteered. Asking for volunteers and then complaining when people don't volunteer is tacky and without class...but this could be predicted because they tell you how much to volunteer to begin with.
The hostels I have given the most money to have been the ones that haven't asked me for anything...I had to ask what to do with a donation. In general I don't stay the night at them because I prefer to tent, I'm looking for a place to take a shower and do my laundry.
Supreme Being
08-17-2012, 08:37
Bronx - The paperwork, regulations and licensing in a private business is quite different than that of a non-profit endeavor. A church can easily run a hostel as an extension of itself without jumping through hoops or hiring another individual just to do the accounting and corporate paperwork. It is so much more than paying taxes that are involved here. And who do you think would actually be paying those taxes? Do you really think the rates would stay the same? No! They would double and you would probably be the first to complain about this as well.
And why should church-run hostels, etc., that are only fully utilized for a portion of the year become a business? They certainly aren't doing it for the money! Yet, at the same time I am sure that they would hope that these hostels could be self-sustaining. They are running these hostels to help hikers and instead they get hikers like you, who instead of being grateful for a hot shower or place to stay or computer to use - look for loopholes and then whine that they are under no obligation to leave the suggested amount. If you use their showers or any of their facilities, you should leave the suggested donation. Do you think they don't have water bills or electric bills?
Hikers like this make me sick. I have nothing but contempt for those who are so sorry a€€ CHEAP that they can't throw in a few measly bucks to help ensure that these hostels are around for the next group of hikers. These hostels are a BARGAIN they are so inexpensive and still there will always be guys like you who have to hide behind "The Donation Status." You sprout off your "philosophies," but you are just cheap hikers.
I leave more than my share at these hostels and donate to many I have never stayed at just to offset hikers like you.
If you don't agree with the suggested donation amount; if you think they should charge a specific amount - well then don't stay there for God's sake! No one is forcing you and other hikers to use their showers or facilities! You say that I make "wild accusations." I think your posts say it all. Because what you don't "get" is that those of us who leave the suggested amount or more would never complain that these hostels shouldn't ask for a suggested donation. It is only hikers who are trying to justify it in their own mind who have this "philosophy." But I have a better idea: If you are really opposed to having someone tell you what donation you should leave - resolve to always leave more. That should show them!
Bronx - The paperwork, regulations and licensing in a private business is quite different than that of a non-profit endeavor. A church can easily run a hostel as an extension of itself without jumping through hoops or hiring another individual just to do the accounting and corporate paperwork. It is so much more than paying taxes that are involved here. And who do you think would actually be paying those taxes? Do you really think the rates would stay the same? No! They would double and you would probably be the first to complain about this as well.
And why should church-run hostels, etc., that are only fully utilized for a portion of the year become a business? They certainly aren't doing it for the money! Yet, at the same time I am sure that they would hope that these hostels could be self-sustaining. They are running these hostels to help hikers and instead they get hikers like you, who instead of being grateful for a hot shower or place to stay or computer to use - look for loopholes and then whine that they are under no obligation to leave the suggested amount. If you use their showers or any of their facilities, you should leave the suggested donation. Do you think they don't have water bills or electric bills?
Hikers like this make me sick. I have nothing but contempt for those who are so sorry a€€ CHEAP that they can't throw in a few measly bucks to help ensure that these hostels are around for the next group of hikers. These hostels are a BARGAIN they are so inexpensive and still there will always be guys like you who have to hide behind "The Donation Status." You sprout off your "philosophies," but you are just cheap hikers.
I leave more than my share at these hostels and donate to many I have never stayed at just to offset hikers like you.
If you don't agree with the suggested donation amount; if you think they should charge a specific amount - well then don't stay there for God's sake! No one is forcing you and other hikers to use their showers or facilities! You say that I make "wild accusations." I think your posts say it all. Because what you don't "get" is that those of us who leave the suggested amount or more would never complain that these hostels shouldn't ask for a suggested donation. It is only hikers who are trying to justify it in their own mind who have this "philosophy." But I have a better idea: If you are really opposed to having someone tell you what donation you should leave - resolve to always leave more. That should show them!
You say these places aren't doing it for the money but that is all you seem to be fixated upon.
I've never stiffed a hostel. I've always paid the advertised price or more. I've cleaned the kitchen and the bathroom in these places because I don't think somebody who drives you to the grocery store and lets you take a shower and do your laundry should have to do it. I've been more than grateful at each place I've stopped at, even if I didn't spend the nite. So get off your high horse and quit with your baseless accusations and stick to the facts. You can't defend your position so you carry on with your lame personal attacks.
I only bring it up because I'm tired of seeing people whine and piss and moan about people who skip out on hostels without paying...they are only able to do so because the proprietors allow it to happen. If the owners cared they would do something about it, and I've offered a suggestion. What have you contributed to the discussion?
Anybody who would anonymously skip out on a hostel is not going to be shamed into changing their behavior by some other anonymous person on the internet, especially when there is a sign on the box that implies a monetary contribution is optional. You preach to the choir here.
Have a nice day :sun
Different Socks
08-18-2012, 01:47
When I do the at again in a few years, I will pay whatever is asked of me. If nothing is indicated I will pay something and/or do what I can to help out. If a ride to/from trail is part of the stay I won't tip. What am I tipping for if the service is part of the payment I've already taken care of?
I've always wondered, if places along the trail(s) are betting stiffed by the certain types pf people, why don't they simply make them pay up front?
Supreme Being
08-18-2012, 02:57
You say these places aren't doing it for the money but that is all you seem to be fixated upon.
I've never stiffed a hostel. I've always paid the advertised price or more. I've cleaned the kitchen and the bathroom in these places because I don't think somebody who drives you to the grocery store and lets you take a shower and do your laundry should have to do it. I've been more than grateful at each place I've stopped at, even if I didn't spend the nite. So get off your high horse and quit with your baseless accusations and stick to the facts. You can't defend your position so you carry on with your lame personal attacks.
I only bring it up because I'm tired of seeing people whine and piss and moan about people who skip out on hostels without paying...they are only able to do so because the proprietors allow it to happen. If the owners cared they would do something about it, and I've offered a suggestion. What have you contributed to the discussion?
Anybody who would anonymously skip out on a hostel is not going to be shamed into changing their behavior by some other anonymous person on the internet, especially when there is a sign on the box that implies a monetary contribution is optional. You preach to the choir here.
Have a nice day :sun
You may know how to hike, but God gave you stronger legs than brains! I am "fixated" about money (duh) because the money is what we are discussing. And my first sentence about paperwork, licensing and regulations gave my exact reasons why many of these hostels are non-profit. In most cases, very few of them would pay taxes anyway because most of these hostels are making very little, if any, profit.
If, and when ever you may get to Bastian VA, look me up. I ask for nothing, I take nothing and refuse any donations, contributions payments of any kind from thru Hikers. 398 thru hikers, 16 dogs, one cat and 42 section hikers, have enjoyed Fort Bastian's hospitality since mid March and my name, in good stead, in every Shelter log. Priceless. If anyone wants to make a business out of the AT, never take from thru hikers. Nothing.
You may know how to hike, but God gave you stronger legs than brains! I am "fixated" about money (duh) because the money is what we are discussing. And my first sentence about paperwork, licensing and regulations gave my exact reasons why many of these hostels are non-profit. In most cases, very few of them would pay taxes anyway because most of these hostels are making very little, if any, profit.
Yes, and I've repeatedly pointed out that these methods are a failure evidenced by the number of hostels that close and the number of people like you that like to complain about it.
You question my intelligence but you fail to grasp the definition of basic words, even after they are explained to you. You talk in circles about people doing things soley based upon their faith but want to turn a profit and how they operate as non-profits (so that they can make profits) to avoid taxes but then argue that they wouldn't have to pay taxes anyway. Its no wonder you're confused about this whole thing. This really is very simple.
JohnWayne
08-18-2012, 08:32
Yes, and I've repeatedly pointed out that these methods are a failure evidenced by the number of hostels that close and the number of people like you that like to complain about it.
You question my intelligence but you fail to grasp the definition of basic words, even after they are explained to you. You talk in circles about people doing things soley based upon their faith but want to turn a profit and how they operate as non-profits (so that they can make profits) to avoid taxes but then argue that they wouldn't have to pay taxes anyway. Its no wonder you're confused about this whole thing. This really is very simple.
Admit that I see point Supreme is making. Sorry partner, but he said self-sustaining - not profitable. And he's saying that the reason these hostels don't survive is the sad sack hikers who can't pay their fair share, even though the amount ain't much. I reckon that the problem isn't the hostel, but the sorry hikers. I've run my own (for profit) ranch and also been in charge of non-profit organization and I see where he's going.
HikerMom58
08-18-2012, 08:47
Yes, and I've repeatedly pointed out that these methods are a failure evidenced by the number of hostels that close and the number of people like you that like to complain about it.
You question my intelligence but you fail to grasp the definition of basic words, even after they are explained to you. You talk in circles about people doing things soley based upon their faith but want to turn a profit and how they operate as non-profits (so that they can make profits) to avoid taxes but then argue that they wouldn't have to pay taxes anyway. Its no wonder you're confused about this whole thing. This really is very simple.
Umm.. I wonder what the suburban housewife living in a shelter thinks..
I don't think that anyone hiking the trail needs to feel like they are "special" or less capable of paying their way. Period. People start hiking and are treated to ramdom acts of kindness from strangers. Some of them start thinking EVERYONE should cater to them, just like that. Others, not unlike regular peeps in our society, are cheap. They are born that way, it seems. So many are not cheap. They go over and above. Those folks are EASY to like.
As far as people providing services for hikers? Who knows? It's hard to know what motivates people. Trubrit is reaching out to hikers, just because he wants too. He is to be commended. Others want to make a living off of hikers. They are no different than other business people needing/wanting to make a living. No prob. Then, some are trying something in-between. Their motivation may be pure or not so much.
Some people need direct, clear instruction to "do the right thing". Other's don't... they just do it naturally.
It's not good to judge why peeps do the things they do because sometimes you may get it right and other times you may get it all wrong. The best thing to do is ASK before you judge but even then, you may get lies... all lies.
Kryptonite
08-19-2012, 08:32
Umm.. I wonder what the suburban housewife living in a shelter thinks..
I don't think that anyone hiking the trail needs to feel like they are "special" or less capable of paying their way. Period. People start hiking and are treated to ramdom acts of kindness from strangers. Some of them start thinking EVERYONE should cater to them, just like that. Others, not unlike regular peeps in our society, are cheap. They are born that way, it seems. So many are not cheap. They go over and above. Those folks are EASY to like.
As far as people providing services for hikers? Who knows? It's hard to know what motivates people. Trubrit is reaching out to hikers, just because he wants too. He is to be commended. Others want to make a living off of hikers. They are no different than other business people needing/wanting to make a living. No prob. Then, some are trying something in-between. Their motivation may be pure or not so much.
Some people need direct, clear instruction to "do the right thing". Other's don't... they just do it naturally.
It's not good to judge why peeps do the things they do because sometimes you may get it right and other times you may get it all wrong. The best thing to do is ASK before you judge but even then, you may get lies... all lies.
May not be "the Christian" thing to do, but I think it's pretty easy to judge those who hike the trail and habitually pay less than their fair share and then spend their money on equipment and beer/meals in town. I don't care if they were raised in that environment or they want to justify it. If you can't afford it from the very start, you stay home. It isn't morally right to make hostels pay for your free ride.
Likewise if a hiker has already hiked half-way or so and has miscalculated funds and is doing everything he can to stretch his dollars (but not short changing the hostels) - am I going to try and help? Definitely.
HikerMom58
08-19-2012, 09:50
May not be "the Christian" thing to do, but I think it's pretty easy to judge those who hike the trail and habitually pay less than their fair share and then spend their money on equipment and beer/meals in town. I don't care if they were raised in that environment or they want to justify it. If you can't afford it from the very start, you stay home. It isn't morally right to make hostels pay for your free ride.
Likewise if a hiker has already hiked half-way or so and has miscalculated funds and is doing everything he can to stretch his dollars (but not short changing the hostels) - am I going to try and help? Definitely.
I agree with you, "K", 100%
BTW... haven't heard a word from the family. My family thinks I shouldn't help them out at all... still thinking about what I should do... it's so hard. :/ They are coming from a different place then the usual. But it's the same, when you break it down.....
Lone Wolf
08-19-2012, 13:17
If anyone wants to make a business out of the AT, never take from thru hikers. Nothing.
why? what makes them so special in your eyes?
Train Wreck
08-19-2012, 13:28
why? what makes them so special in your eyes?
I agree that the sense of entitlement can get a little overblown sometimes.
For example, a few years ago we were section hiking some part of the trail in Virginia and came upon some trail magic in the form of a cooler with a hand-lettered sign taped on the lid. This was the first time we'd ever run across a cooler on the trail, so we were naturally curious. I was standing over it, reading the sign and thinking, "Wow, this is neat, I should take a photo," when a thru-hiker that we'd passed earlier on the trail came up. "You didn't take any drinks from that, did you?" was the first thing he blurted out. No hello, no nothing. "Because that's just for thru-hikers." We hadn't actually talked to the guy, how could he know if we were thru-hikers or not. How rude and presumptuous can you get?
Kryptonite
08-19-2012, 13:35
If a person is in business along the AT, it shouldn't make a bit of difference if they are a thru-hiker or not. Should all the restaurants, shuttle drivers and equipment outfitters not make a profit off thru hikers? That would put Mountain Crossings out of business!
Train Wreck
08-19-2012, 13:38
If a person is in business along the AT, it shouldn't make a bit of difference if they are a thru-hiker or not. Should all the restaurants, shuttle drivers and equipment outfitters not make a profit off thru hikers? That would put Mountain Crossings out of business!
Yeah, Winton Porter is probably having a good laugh over this one.
If a person is in business along the AT, it shouldn't make a bit of difference if they are a thru-hiker or not. Should all the restaurants, shuttle drivers and equipment outfitters not make a profit off thru hikers? That would put Mountain Crossings out of business!
But..But..they are on a pilgrimage!
I never tip owners
And I am an owner.
ROFLMAO! You'rea dentist, who by his own admission claims ignorance as an excuse for not tippinghotel staff! That's the definition of a Douche bag :)
ChinMusic
08-19-2012, 17:58
ROFLMAO! You'rea dentist, who by his own admission claims ignorance as an excuse for not tippinghotel staff! That's the definition of a Douche bag :)
I have asked multiple folks around here. A grand total of ZERO had ever heard of tipping hotel stafff.............ZERO.
Do YOU tip owners?
I'll ask again. Is this a regional thing?
And, *******, when tipped, I give it to my staff. So **** off.
Kryptonite
08-19-2012, 18:04
I have asked multiple folks around here. A grand total of ZERO had ever heard of tipping hotel stafff.............ZERO.
Do YOU tip owners?
I'll ask again. Is this a regional thing?
And, *******, when tipped, I give it to my staff. So **** off.
I have lived in numerous parts of the country and this is really something that should be known. Ironically, it is the staff of the nicer hotels who are always tipped - checking in (at times), always the luggage staff, always the room service staff or anyone who brings something to your door and always leave something for housekeeping on a daily basis as they have different people each day.
ChinMusic
08-19-2012, 18:17
I have lived in numerous parts of the country and this is really something that should be known. Ironically, it is the staff of the nicer hotels who are always tipped - checking in (at times), always the luggage staff, always the room service staff or anyone who brings something to your door and always leave something for housekeeping on a daily basis as they have different people each day.
Luggage staff, yes. Airport luggage, yes. Just no one I have talked to had heard of cleaning staff.
Luggage staff, yes. Airport luggage, yes. Just no one I have talked to had heard of cleaning staff.
"Just no one I have talked to had heard of cleaning staff."
Of course not. That's because fat white-trash is so easy to clean up after that they shouldn't have to tip; internet tough guy. LOL
ChinMusic
08-19-2012, 22:27
Of course not. That's because fat white-trash is so easy to clean up after that they shouldn't have to tip; internet tough guy. LOL
Nice mirror you are looking into........... Interesting that that was the first post from you on WB in a year. Freaking troll.
Congrats. You are the FIRST POS I have blocked on WB.
Nice mirror you are looking into........... Interesting that that was the first post from you on WB in a year. Freaking troll.
Congrats. You are the FIRST POS I have blocked on WB.
"Nice mirror you are looking into........... "
I'm rubber and you are glue....and now I know why you failed medical school :D
Those that commented... I do not take any offense at the feed back on my post about profiteering, you may though have misunderstood. There is an immense difference between turning a profit and profiteering. Will I profit fom my way of helping the hikers? Absolutely. As I said and an Update here, I have now 398 ambassadors for Fort Bastian. Their value is the word of mouth sharing of their experiences when coming through Bastian. when Fort Bastian opens next season it will continue to extend the Exact same courtesies and hospitality as it has to date to all THROUGH hikers. There will be no charge to any through hiker coming to Fort Bastian. Shower, bunk, laundry, entertainment, Full breakfast before hitting the trail and shuttle back to the TH. So how do I make anything? Very simple I will have so many other activities going on , my business plan wrote off the hikers as an expense before I even open the doors. and it seems to be working extraordinarily well. There are those hikers that do abuse the trail magic and hospitality they are given, and there definitely are those who do indeed profiteer from hikers with no where else to turn. I have seen the rates go up 35% at a local hotel for the hiker season, (Yep they are pissed at me.) There are shuttle drivers who take extreme advantage. Again a couple of local people were charging outrageous amounts for hikers to get a 3 mile ride into Bland. So please do not think for one minute I have anything against persons and businesses along the trail making money, not at all. This is America land of free enterprise. I have 396 ambassadors , monies received zero. Expenditure? Bloody outrageous LOL ! regrets none. Profit? Some profit cannot be counted in coin, and is priceless.
Mountain Mike
08-20-2012, 01:54
Luggage staff, yes. Airport luggage, yes. Just no one I have talked to had heard of cleaning staff.
I guesses you never saw envelopes for tips in most hotels.
I haven't read this entire thread but.... I always leave a few bucks for the hotel maid and I tip good because it gets me better service and I'm impatient so I like good, prompt service.
With regards to charging/tipping establishments on the trail... *IF* I were to ever start a hiker oriented business it would be ran like a business which means I'd charge enough to make a profit and if someone couldn't afford to use my business they can go somewhere else. I don't mean that in a harsh way... Just that there are different price points for different budgets and I would absolutely not try to attract people who have little or no discretionary money to spend.
The Hiker Hostel in Dahlonega is a perfect example... I would probably use their model for a hostel.
The Hiker Hostel in Dahlonega is a perfect example... I would probably use their model for a hostel.
Josh and Leigh run a fantastic hostel...and it's a bargin. I don't know how they offer so much for so small a price. The gasoline consumed on their shuttles alone must be staggaring.
Josh and Leigh run a fantastic hostel...and it's a bargin. I don't know how they offer so much for so small a price. The gasoline consumed on their shuttles alone must be staggaring.
Jeff, your place is legend in VT and I think the same could be said for your hostel based on the massive amount of kudos you got on both the LT and the AT.