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TheBirdman
08-14-2012, 11:11
Just did Amicalola to Woody Gap, GA this past weekend and between Springer and Justus Creek we passed 3 ground bee nests and 1 hornets nest either directly on the trail or immediately adjacent to it. Twice we didn't see them until someone got stung. Probably a good idea to know if anyone in your group has a reaction and how to handle it.

Grampie
08-14-2012, 11:35
BEE carefull. I got stung three times on my thru.

Ewker
08-14-2012, 11:38
If a person is allergic to bees they had better be carrying an epipen. My gf carries 2 epipens with her just in case she gets stung another day. I would also have some benadryl handy..preferrably liquid

moocow
08-14-2012, 11:48
that's an unwelcome surprise for sure. I mistook a hive for flies and a pile of poop on the trail. Five bee stings and a freak out moment had me 25 yards up the trail in what felt like a half a second flat. Everyone got stung several times that day. I always wondered what happened to the allergic hikers when they're put in that situation where going through there means you WILL get stung.

Suckerfish
08-14-2012, 13:28
I hiked this section the week of july 4th, i was stung twice, both times were when I sat down right by a bee hive in the ground. Once was by a random field a mile or two after three forks, the 2nd was on blood mtn past the shelter up on that big bald section, I set up camp back there in a nice cove area and sat right on another one. Not fun. Pack benadril for sure...

Hope you enjoyed your hike despite the stings, hey did you guys see any bears?

TheBirdman
08-14-2012, 13:39
Didn't see any bears. One of the bee nests looked like something had tried VERY hard to dig it up, but it was a few days old.

Tipi Walter
08-14-2012, 13:58
Last summer was the worst I've seen for yellow jackets in the last decade and this summer to late Fall may also be bad. There are Bees (bumblebees, honey bees), then there are white faced hornets and wasps, THEN there are ground hornets aka yellow jackets. Bears like to dig up their nests and so it is often easy to spot a big open nest of yellow jackets in the ground near a backpacking trail. Many stings can be avoided by going slow and looking for these nests.

Last year I avoided numerous stings on the Slickrock Creek trail by seeing 6 nests first and detouring, although during the course of the trip I did get popped 5 times from other nests. September is usually the worst month as the slightly cooler weather gets them frantic to protect a nest before Autumn hits.

I carry benadryl for stings and somebody serious should probably carry a prescribed epi-pen or whatever they're called. I'd say 75% of all nests can be seen beforehand with careful movement and slow going---and like with the pit vipers, keep your eyeballs open and your butt cheeks clenched, etc. Going slow disturbs the "fast and light" types but what's the rush? Going slow should be one of a backpacker's 10 Essentials.

Pathfinder1
08-14-2012, 14:31
Hi...


Extreme caution:

Per Georgia's www.southwesterngeorgiapublichealth.org (http://www.southwesterngeorgiapublichealth.org) Africanized bees are now as far north as Georgia...!! They may swarm as frequently as every six weeks, and produce a couple of separate swarms each time.

Do not swat at the bees or flail your arms. Bees are attracted to movement, and crushed bees produce a smell that will attract more bees.

University of Arizona tests indicated DEET had no effect on colony behavior.

daddytwosticks
08-14-2012, 16:12
Just did Amicalola to Woody Gap, GA this past weekend and between Springer and Justus Creek we passed 3 ground bee nests and 1 hornets nest either directly on the trail or immediately adjacent to it. Twice we didn't see them until someone got stung. Probably a good idea to know if anyone in your group has a reaction and how to handle it. Hey Birdman...were you with that group of 4 that tented at Gooch Mtn. shelter saturday night? I was that old bearded dude who stayed in the shelter, but snoozed in the hammock during the late afternoon. Hope the young lady was OK after the sting. :)

moldy
08-14-2012, 16:16
In the place I was attacked it was the wild hogs that were digging them up. Walking sticks accidently poked in the nests while hikers just walk along also gets them agitated.

TheBirdman
08-14-2012, 16:18
Hey Birdman...were you with that group of 4 that tented at Gooch Mtn. shelter saturday night? I was that old bearded dude who stayed in the shelter, but snoozed in the hammock during the late afternoon. Hope the young lady was OK after the sting. :)

That was us! Nice to put a face to a username :) She was fine, her 3 stings healed up quicker than my one.. or (most likely) she's just tougher than me.

TheBirdman
08-14-2012, 16:22
In the place I was attacked it was the wild hogs that were digging them up. Walking sticks accidently poked in the nests while hikers just walk along also gets them agitated.

We saw lots of hog signs too.. didn't know they went after honey though.

walnut
08-14-2012, 16:32
...THEN there are ground hornets aka yellow jackets. Bears like to dig up their nests and so it is often easy to spot a big open nest of yellow jackets in the ground near a backpacking trail. Many stings can be avoided by going slow and looking for these nests.

Last year I avoided numerous stings on the Slickrock Creek trail by seeing 6 nests first and detouring, although during the course of the trip I did get popped 5 times from other nests. September is usually the worst month as the slightly cooler weather gets them frantic to protect a nest before Autumn hits.

I carry benadryl for stings and somebody serious should probably carry a prescribed epi-pen or whatever they're called. I'd say 75% of all nests can be seen beforehand with careful movement and slow going---and like with the pit vipers, keep your eyeballs open and your butt cheeks clenched, etc. Going slow disturbs the "fast and light" types but what's the rush? Going slow should be one of a backpacker's 10 Essentials.

On these sections of the trails you've got to choose between the lesser of two evils...potential for yellow jacket sting or definite poison oak/ivy.

We actually hammocked at Gooch. You should have joined us, daddytwosticks.

Pedaling Fool
08-14-2012, 17:38
I've always liked bees and never swat them. While hiking when you're sitting around you'll see the large bumble and carpenter bees, as well as other types land on you, don't swat them, just watch and you'll see that the are lapping the sweat off you, I guess it's for the salt.

rocketsocks
08-14-2012, 17:43
Iv'e pet bee's before as they eat, there very docile. Wasps on the other hand (no pun) are not allowed to stay.....

TheBirdman
08-14-2012, 17:43
None of ours were issues of swatting peaceful bees. In all our encounters they were in nest-protection mode and came in weapons-free and stingers first.

rocketsocks
08-14-2012, 17:48
Last summer was the worst I've seen for yellow jackets in the last decade and this summer to late Fall may also be bad. There are Bees (bumblebees, honey bees), then there are white faced hornets and wasps, THEN there are ground hornets aka yellow jackets. Bears like to dig up their nests and so it is often easy to spot a big open nest of yellow jackets in the ground near a backpacking trail. Many stings can be avoided by going slow and looking for these nests.

Last year I avoided numerous stings on the Slickrock Creek trail by seeing 6 nests first and detouring, although during the course of the trip I did get popped 5 times from other nests. September is usually the worst month as the slightly cooler weather gets them frantic to protect a nest before Autumn hits.

I carry benadryl for stings and somebody serious should probably carry a prescribed epi-pen or whatever they're called. I'd say 75% of all nests can be seen beforehand with careful movement and slow going---and like with the pit vipers, keep your eyeballs open and your butt cheeks clenched, etc. Going slow disturbs the "fast and light" types but what's the rush? Going slow should be one of a backpacker's 10 Essentials.Zing, slow and steady wins the race...So don't Bee in a hurry! I like it, that could stick like honey :)

doritotex
08-14-2012, 17:48
Oh, good god..thank you for warning us that there're might be bees in the forrest! Enough warnings might turn me into a mall walker!

rocketsocks
08-14-2012, 17:50
None of ours were issues of swatting peaceful bees. In all our encounters they were in nest-protection mode and came in weapons-free and stingers first.In that case......Run!

rocketsocks
08-14-2012, 17:51
Oh, good god..thank you for warning us that there're might be bees in the forrest! Enough warnings might turn me into a mall walker!Ha! she said Mall Walker! :)

TheBirdman
08-14-2012, 17:54
Oh, good god..thank you for warning us that there're might be bees in the forrest! Enough warnings might turn me into a mall walker!

It wasn't a warning that bees MIGHT be there, everybody knows they're there. It was more of a heads up to a specific location and to be prepared. Too bad somebody didn't warn me about a troll acting like a fool.. but I probably should have known pathetic trolls are part of the internet now like bees are part of the forest. Enjoy your mall!

Mrs Baggins
08-14-2012, 18:05
Hubby and I did Keys Gap to Harpers Ferry this past Sunday and I was harassed by a big damn hornet for several hundred feet. I kept waving my hands and poles around my head to get him to leave me alone. When we did the Maryland Heights Trail a couple of weeks ago we came across a yellow jacket ground nest and managed to avoid annoying them.

Wise Old Owl
08-14-2012, 19:55
Hmmm Fear's again... I get the point. Try not to swat them...in fact - Ignore them.

Tipi Walter
08-14-2012, 21:27
In that case......Run!

Instinct will get you to run and it's always fun on a butt steep trail carrying a 70 lb pack.


Hmmm Fear's again... I get the point. Try not to swat them...in fact - Ignore them.

Hard to do when you step in a nest.

Wise Old Owl
08-14-2012, 21:44
True ................

johnnybgood
08-14-2012, 22:25
The bottom line everyone is be aware that August is an active month for Yellow Jackets and Hornets. The worker bees have left the colony and are often more aggressive . After months of protecting the queen bee and doing structured activity of hive building and food collection, they suddenly find themselves out of a job and having to survive outside of a colony.

Pedaling Fool
08-15-2012, 08:52
Iv'e pet bee's before as they eat, there very docile. Wasps on the other hand (no pun) are not allowed to stay.....Wasps are just as docile as bees, as long as you're not near their nests ;) I was looking at a wasp nest under my roof and all of a sudden I feel this painful sting in my back, I guess one was coming back to the nest and didn't like me there. But when you get them away from their nest they are remarkably docile, despite how scary they look and they are very scary looking :D


Many people believe that wasps are meat eaters, but that is fasle they are pollinators just like bees, but they do hunt, but it's for their larvae.


I also got a pic in my gallery of an epic battle I witnessed in Penn. It was a cicada killer catching a cicada; it was extremely loud and a little scary getting close for a pic. They actually don't kill the cicada, they simply paralyze it and take it back to their nest and let the larvae fest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphecius_speciosus


http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/9/3/6/6-15-2006-132.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showimage.php?i=14000&original=1&catid=member&imageuser=6936)

Mountain Mojo
08-15-2012, 12:24
We passed a big above~ground nest outside Partnership, heading south. My friend says that means it's gonna be a mild winter...

Ewker
08-15-2012, 12:30
I use one of these at home on the red wasp...nothin like watching them sizzle

17052

Ewker
08-15-2012, 12:32
Wasps are just as docile as bees, as long as you're not near their nests ;) I was looking at a wasp nest under my roof and all of a sudden I feel this painful sting in my back, I guess one was coming back to the nest and didn't like me there. But when you get them away from their nest they are remarkably docile, despite how scary they look and they are very scary looking :D

i disagree with that statement. It is like my gf is a magnet for red wasp. They will fly by me but will sting her every chance they get.

Astro
08-15-2012, 13:01
After several trips on the AT and other trails I was always amazed that bees, wasps, yellow jackets did not attack like they would in a yard (or near "civilization"). Unfortunately on my trip earlier this month I finally was stung by what looked like a yellow jacket (potentially some type of bee other than honey). Still feel like they are not as agreesive in the woods as they in domesticated areas.

Pedaling Fool
08-15-2012, 13:41
i disagree with that statement. It is like my gf is a magnet for red wasp. They will fly by me but will sting her every chance they get.Wasp sanctuary here, bring your gf over and I'll let her pet my wasps ;)



I leave sunflower stalks standing so they can use the material to make nests...just stay away, far away, from the nests :D



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Bug%20ID/018.jpg



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Bug%20ID/013.jpg

Tipi Walter
08-15-2012, 13:43
After several trips on the AT and other trails I was always amazed that bees, wasps, yellow jackets did not attack like they would in a yard (or near "civilization"). Unfortunately on my trip earlier this month I finally was stung by what looked like a yellow jacket (potentially some type of bee other than honey). Still feel like they are not as agreesive in the woods as they in domesticated areas.

Come over to the mountains of TN and NC and step in a yellow jacket nest and all your questions will be answered.

I think I told this story before so here it goes---I was backpacking and brought a favorite treat for the end of the trip: A Knudsen ginger ale. Once opened I set it on the ground to do something and came back and took a big swig. A ground hornet was inside and got in my mouth and stung me on the inside of my lower lip. Hurt like a mofo. I spit the guy out and he crawled around and I let him live since he accepted the challenge and we both lived to talk about it.

Pedaling Fool
08-15-2012, 13:53
As for how aggressive they are, I guess it depends on their environment and what they've experienced in the recent past. I have been stung by wasps around my house by just looking at their nests, but at the same time I've since been able to get close to them and they now seem to leave me alone, just a matter of conditioning. However, some species, such as Africanized bees are from an environment that has pretty much hardwired their behaviour.

As for bees on the trail, I know yellowjackets are generally more aggressive, but not as aggressive as Africanized bees. I do wonder if the differences in aggressiveness is a result of high activity with their natural predators, putting them on edge, so to speak.

Pedaling Fool
08-15-2012, 14:02
However, some species, such as Africanized bees are from an environment that has pretty much hardwired their behaviour.
That reminds me, I have wondered if one were to have a nest of Africanized bees and were to approach it every day or so, of course in a heavily padded suit, and allow them to attack, but just repeat that day after day, either they will get use to you and stop attacking or they'll basically kill themselves off, since they die after attacking. I wonder what would happen :-?


If they were to get use to you and stop attacking, it would seem that eventually you'd be able to harvest honey from them in the same way as we do from European bees.

pheldozer
08-15-2012, 14:21
If a person is allergic to bees they had better be carrying an epipen. My gf carries 2 epipens with her just in case she gets stung another day. I would also have some benadryl handy..preferrably liquid

if someone(me) wasn't allergic when they were stung earlier in life, but have successfully gone about 15 years since the last sting, is there a chance an allergy has developed since then, and is there a test for it?

I carry benedryl whenever I'm doing anything outside while wearing a pack, but do most of my overnight stuff solo and would rather not risk biting the dust because of a sting.

Rightfoot
08-15-2012, 19:12
I have a known allergy to yellow jacket stings and carry two Epi-Pens in my pack. In addition I carry a liquid antihistamine and a short term beta agonist (a breathing treatment). I have auto injected myself once and had to use both injections that time. The effect of the epinephrine from the Epi Pen is moderately short lasting. The hardest part of auto injecting yourself or another person is that the auto injected needle has to remain in the thigh for approximately 10 seconds. If you or your partner reach a real anaphylactic situation, you have a potential life threatening situation on your hands. Please if you have a known allergy to bee stings wear a medic alert bracelet or chain. I know its foolish but I only wear mine while on the trail. Make sure if hiking with a partner that they know how to treat your symptoms also. Be prepared if nescessary to give a stranger directions how to help you.

If you are concerned with aiding a fellow hiker for fear of legal repercussions read up on the Good Samaritian Act.

From Wikipedia:
Good Samaritan laws are laws (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Law) or acts in some cases obliging people to give reasonable assistance to those who are injured, ill, in peril, or otherwise incapacitated (duty to rescue (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Duty_to_rescue))[1] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-dan-0), and in all cases protecting people who do so against legal action[1] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-dan-0). The protection is intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Wrongful_death_claim).

Consent may be implied if an unattended patient is unconscious, delusional, intoxicated or deemed mentally unfit to make decisions regarding their safety, or if the responder has a reasonable belief that this was so; courts tend to be very forgiving in adjudicating this, under the legal fiction (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Legal_fiction) that "peril invites rescue" (as in the rescue doctrine (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Rescue_doctrine)).

If still interested, sign up of a Wilderness First Responder course or Basic EMT training.

Regards[ (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-19)

Sarcasm the elf
08-15-2012, 20:23
Just in case you need something to haunt your nightmares:

Asian giant hornet

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Asian giant hornet





Adults engaging in trophallaxis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophallaxis)


Scientific classification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_classification)


Kingdom:
Animalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal)


Phylum:
Arthropoda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthropod)


Class:
Insecta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect)


Order:
Hymenoptera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymenoptera)


Family:
Vespidae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespidae)


Genus:
Vespa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornet)


Species:
V. mandarinia


Binomial name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_nomenclature)


Vespa mandarinia
Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Smith_(entomologist)), 1852



The Asian giant hornet (Vespa mandarinia), including the subspecies Japanese giant hornet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_giant_hornet)(Vespa mandarinia japonica),[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-Ross-9-0) colloquially known as the yak-killer hornet,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-1) is the world's largest hornet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornet), native to temperate and tropical Eastern Asia. Its body length is approximately 50 mm (2 in), its wingspan about 76 mm (3 in),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-ngeo-2) and it has a 6 mm (0.2 in) sting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinger) which injects a large amount of potent venom.



Sting

The stinger of the Asian giant hornet is about 6 mm (¼ in) in length,[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-ngeo-2) and injects an especially potent venom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom) that contains, like many bee and wasp venoms, a cytolytic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytolysis) peptide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peptide)(specifically, a mastoparan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastoparan)) that can damage tissue by stimulating phospholipase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phospholipase) action,[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-3) in addition to its own intrinsic phospholipase.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-4) Masato Ono, an entomologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomology) at Tamagawa University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamagawa_University) near Tokyo, described the sensation as feeling "like a hot nail being driven into my leg".[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-ngeo-2)
An allergic human stung by the giant hornet may die from an allergic reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergy) to the venom, but the venom contains a neurotoxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotoxin) calledmandaratoxin (MDTX),[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-5) a single-chain polypeptide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypeptide) with a molecular weight of approximately 20,000 u (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_mass_unit),[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-6) which can be lethal even to people who are not allergic if the dose is sufficient. Each year in Japan, the human death toll caused by Asian giant hornet stings is significant.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-7)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_giant_hornet#cite_note-8)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Vespa_mandarinia_japonica2.jpg

Ewker
08-15-2012, 20:44
if someone(me) wasn't allergic when they were stung earlier in life, but have successfully gone about 15 years since the last sting, is there a chance an allergy has developed since then, and is there a test for it?

I carry benedryl whenever I'm doing anything outside while wearing a pack, but do most of my overnight stuff solo and would rather not risk biting the dust because of a sting.

There is a chance you could have developed an allergy since then. Just to play it safe you could always talk to your Dr.

We were hiking in Sipsey and a guy went back to get water at the river. Some folks came running from that direction and said a guy was laying out on the trail. He was allergic to wasp,hornets, etc but didn't have his epipen with him getting water. We went and brought him back to camp. He said to get his epipen out of his pack and give him the shot. He was lucky those folks came by.

Ewker
08-15-2012, 20:45
Wasp sanctuary here, bring your gf over and I'll let her pet my wasps ;)



I leave sunflower stalks standing so they can use the material to make nests...just stay away, far away, from the nests :D



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Bug%20ID/018.jpg



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Bug%20ID/013.jpg

she will pass on that

Wise Old Owl
08-15-2012, 21:06
i disagree with that statement. It is like my gf is a magnet for red wasp. They will fly by me but will sting her every chance they get.

I will back up John's Post. Its more about being aware for the little things in life... just like a motorcyclist must be aware to stay off a grease track and watch for pot holes.... walking without paying attention will get you eventually in trouble... So Yea watch the insects!

Ewker - isn's she supposed to carry Prednisone as well?

Pedaling Fool
08-15-2012, 21:54
I will back up John's Post. Its more about being aware for the little things in life... just like a motorcyclist must be aware to stay off a grease track and watch for pot holes.... walking without paying attention will get you eventually in trouble... So Yea watch the insects!

Ewker - isn's she supposed to carry Prednisone as well?I don't know WOO, some people just got it that way. :)

Ewker
08-16-2012, 11:46
I will back up John's Post. Its more about being aware for the little things in life... just like a motorcyclist must be aware to stay off a grease track and watch for pot holes.... walking without paying attention will get you eventually in trouble... So Yea watch the insects!

Ewker - isn's she supposed to carry Prednisone as well?

you and John keep thinking that way on your first comment as misguided as it is

No she doesn't carry it. She can ask her allergist for it though. She has been getting allergy shots for stinging insects for the past yr. Last week she got stung while sitting on the patio by a wasp. She waited about 10 minutes before she took her epipen. She also called the allergist and he wished she would have waited longer to see how she would react to it the sting without using the epipen. I told to go back out and get stung again...she didn't like that

Pedaling Fool
11-27-2012, 15:25
Wasp sanctuary here, bring your gf over and I'll let her pet my wasps ;)



I leave sunflower stalks standing so they can use the material to make nests...just stay away, far away, from the nests :D



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Bug%20ID/018.jpg



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Bug%20ID/013.jpg



Saved another wasp at my Wasp Sanctuary:D


I saw a wasp walking across my carport so I attempted to make him fly away so I didn't step on him, but he didn't fly, could only walk, so I picked him up and put him in my Alyssum flowers, thinking he needed the energy.

Sure enough, he just started sucking that nectar down like crazy, going from flower to flower.



http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Pollinators%20at%20work/009.jpg

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m484/76gunner/Pollinators%20at%20work/006-1.jpg[/QUOTE]

jimmyjam
11-27-2012, 16:04
if someone(me) wasn't allergic when they were stung earlier in life, but have successfully gone about 15 years since the last sting, is there a chance an allergy has developed since then, and is there a test for it?

I carry benedryl whenever I'm doing anything outside while wearing a pack, but do most of my overnight stuff solo and would rather not risk biting the dust because of a sting.

Yes you can develop an allergy later in life- it happened to me with yellow jackets, cutting the grass I got stung and started to going into shock, I ate like 3 or 4 benedryls and was ok. Yellow jacket stings had never bothered me before like that, although I had noticed that each sting had caused more swelling in recent years- a warning sign. I went thru 3 years of shots to get my immune system to where it doesn't go haywire if I get stung.
And yes an allergest can test you for all the bee stings ( and just about anything else) to see if you are allergic. They will give you a tiny skin prick of the venom for each bee and watch for the reaction.

jimmyjam
11-27-2012, 16:08
Another bee related fact: mud dauber wasps eat spiders and their favorite is the black widow. So if you find one of their mud tubes, try and leave it as they are killing spiders. Those tubes are full of dead stored spiders.

Wise Old Owl
11-27-2012, 16:29
you and John keep thinking that way on your first comment as misguided as it is:mad:

No she doesn't carry it. She can ask her allergist for it though. She has been getting allergy shots for stinging insects for the past yr. Last week she got stung while sitting on the patio by a wasp. She waited about 10 minutes before she took her epipen. She also called the allergist and he wished she would have waited longer to see how she would react to it the sting without using the epipen. I told to go back out and get stung again...she didn't like that

I remove wasps nests every year - many times without the suit - consider she is using a perfume or something else that may have a smell (hairspray) that would be similiar to their food - such as a catapilar. Please check my profile if you have anymore questions.

Wiki - . Their innate preferences for nest-building sites leads them to commonly build nests on human habitation, where they can be very unwelcome; although generally not aggressive, they can be provoked into defending their nests. All species are predatory, and they may consume large numbers of caterpillars, in which respect they are generally considered beneficial. The European paper wasp, Polistes dominula (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Polistes_dominula), was introduced into the US about 1981 and has quickly spread throughout most of the country, in most cases replacing native species within a few years. This species is very commonly mistaken for a yellowjacket (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Yellowjacket), as it is black, strongly marked with yellow, and quite different from the native North American species of Polistes. Polistes wasps can be identified by their characteristic flight; their long legs dangle below their bodies, which are also more slender than a yellowjacket.[2] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-2)

JAK
11-27-2012, 18:14
We had an unusual number of hornets in New Brunswick this past summer, but luckily they were a kind that hang around trash cans but are not very aggressive at all. Kids around them the whole summer, at the Kayak club, and no one got stung all summer. By the end the kids were getting pretty bold, and the hornets still didn't bite. Never seen anything like it. Not your Grand-Pappy's Yellow Jacket.

Pedaling Fool
11-27-2012, 18:54
Another bee related fact: mud dauber wasps eat spiders and their favorite is the black widow. So if you find one of their mud tubes, try and leave it as they are killing spiders. Those tubes are full of dead stored spiders.That's true, but it's not the adults that eat the spiders, it's the larvae that eat the spiders; virtually all wasps are basically pollinators eating the nectar of flowers. BTW, just like the cicada killer wasp, the mud dauber doesn't kill the spider, they sting them in order to paralyze them so they can stuff and seal them in their nest.

Pedaling Fool
12-06-2012, 09:04
I saw a good video of a wasp pollinating a flower http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQatC64FfZw

That's what I love about wasps; it's a two for one deal -- a predator and pollinator in one species :)

Wise Old Owl
12-06-2012, 10:05
John we have a Flir camera at the office and John pointed it at a paper wasp nest that was the size of a basket ball - you could see the delicate detail and measure the inside temperature and they like it warm, they took a pic of it - but I don't have it

Pedaling Fool
12-06-2012, 12:19
We had an unusual number of hornets in New Brunswick this past summer, but luckily they were a kind that hang around trash cans but are not very aggressive at all. Kids around them the whole summer, at the Kayak club, and no one got stung all summer. By the end the kids were getting pretty bold, and the hornets still didn't bite. Never seen anything like it. Not your Grand-Pappy's Yellow Jacket.Interesting story JAK about bees, wasps and hornets http://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/17/science/selfless-helpful-intelligent-wasp-yellow-jackets-much-more-than-evil-guests.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm




Selfless, Helpful and Intelligent: the Wasp; Yellow Jackets Much More Than the Evil Guests at the Picnic, Scientists Say


By NATALIE ANGIER
Published: August 17, 1999



"It is late summer, which means it is time to grit one's teeth, get outside for a little family picnic, and practice that ever-fashionable dance routine, the Yellow Jacket Jive. Herewith, some tips from a mistress of the form (ahem):

Partner A: Approach picnic table and land on sandwich. Partner B: Sit bolt upright, eyes goggled. A: Fly off sandwich, head for can of cola in partner's hand. B: Jump up, spilling cola on shorts. A: Swoop toward partner's face. B: Rotate arms wildly and squawk like Olive Oyl, but with more expletives. A: Continue circling partner's face. Buzz in left ear. B: Run inside and lock door. Stay there until the first frost.

Yes, August is official yellow jacket month, as a number of entomologists have proclaimed on their Internet Web pages, and as anybody within range of a public trash can will attest. This is the season when the wretched little biblical plagues boil forth in force, bobbing and weaving like drunken marionettes, poking in fruit stands, crash-landing on soda cans, and haughtily, viciously, perniciously stinging any human who dares to protest, those vile little -- .


I'm better now. Sure, I've been stung a couple of times by yellow jackets, and, sure, both times I thought my leg had spontaneously combusted, but it turns out that yellow jackets are not the mean-spirited vermin their victims assume them to be. They are not nasty for nastiness' sake. They are proactively defensive, family-values types that struggle selflessly to support and defend their kin. They may crave the same junk food we do, but they are not base freeloaders, and sometimes will even pitch in by hunting caterpillars, aphids, flies and other garden pests.

And to the entomologists who are beginning to piece together a portrait of their society, yellow jackets are fascinating insects, with all the sophistication of behavior found in bees, ants and other elaborately social insects.

Yellow jackets are not preprogrammed automatons, but learn from experience, including where and when to crash the best parties. They can communicate with one another, conveying their intentions, work assignments, the location of a hot new outdoor restaurant. Exactly how they communicate, though -- whether through chemical signals, touch, sound or a kinetic language like bee dancing -- is not understood.

Yellow jackets' cooperative talents are most evident in the complexity of their nests, usually built underground or in wall voids and thus not easily admired. But they are beautiful creations, with thousands of cells assembled from masticated wood pulp and leaf litter into a structure the shape of a hanging Japanese paper lantern. As the colony grows, the yellow jackets excavate the soil and expand the nest downward. If they encounter rocks and pebbles too big to remove, they dig beneath them, causing the rocks to drift down and form a kind of cobblestone floor at the nest bottom.

''Yellow jackets and their relatives, the paper wasps, are the pinnacle of animal architects,'' said Dr. John W. Wenzel, associate professor of entomology at the Ohio State University in Columbus. ''They're better at it than anyone else but humans, and they do it without blueprints, without a foreman or an engineer. They create a structure too vast for any individual worker to perceive, and yet the whole thing fits together.'' Some are practically indestructible. The nest of one type of paper wasp in South America, Dr. Wenzel said, feels like a cage of tough felt and is so durable that specimens from the 1700's are still in good shape today.

Knowing thy enemy means knowing a little of its taxonomy, and when it comes to identifying exactly what a yellow jacket is, most people are understandably confused. Yellow jackets are in the same insect order as ants and bees, Hymenoptera, and they are often erroneously called bees, perhaps because the yellow jacket's striped body looks like cartoon depictions of honeybees. In fact, real honeybees often lack a distinctive banding pattern and instead are covered by a fuzzy coat of yellow or brownish hairs. Yellow jackets are in no way fuzzy-wuzzy, though they, like bees, are very buzzy.

Yellow jackets are also waspish, literally speaking. They number among the 900 or so species of the world's social wasps, Edith Wharton wasps if you will, which means they live in a highly cooperative and organized society consisting almost entirely of females -- the queen and her sterile female workers.

Yellow jacket wasps are closely related to, but distinct from, another group of social wasps, the hornets; though to further confound matters, one of the yellow jacket species native to North America is known, misleadingly, as the bald-faced hornet. In fact, the only true hornet on this continent is an introduced species, the European hornet, which is chocolate-brown, as big as a thumb and surprisingly mild-mannered.

''They don't come to get me when I dissect their nests,'' said Dr. Wenzel, who studies wasp nests for a living. ''I had European hornets in the wall of my house in Georgia, and they'd fly in and out of a hole right above where I entertained guests. Nobody ever got stung.'' Of course, Dr. Wenzel admitted, most of the guests were entomologists. ''They're the only ones who are willing to sit there with hornets flying overhead,'' he said.

Yellow jackets, by contrast, sting readily when anybody goes after their nests, which is why Dr. Wenzel has been stung at least a thousand times. There are 15 species of yellow jacket in this country, and all have the delightful ability to sting their victims, not once, as a honeybee will, but multiple times. The difference lies in the structure of the stinger. Whereas a honeybee stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, resulting in the evisceration and death of the bee, the yellow jacket stinger is comparatively smooth, and can be pulled
out and reinserted as its possessor sees fit.

Another distinction between bees and yellow jackets lies in the content of their venom. The main source of pain in honeybee venom is a small peptide called mellitin, which disrupts cell membranes, including of the skin's many nerve cells, which then scream ''danger!'' in the form of pain signals.

In yellow jacket venom, the molecule that prompts a fiery distress is a very different and smaller peptide called kinin, which mimics a compound indigenous to the body, bradykinin. This mysterious compound helps to control heart rate, but will also cause excruciating pain when released into the bloodstream, explaining why the yellow jacket toxin has evolved to imitate its structure.

As for which sting hurts the most, the answer cannot be quantified. ''It's purely subjective,'' said Dr. Justin O. Schmidt, a research entomologist at the United States Department of Agriculture bee labs in Tucson, Ariz., who studies insect venom. ''I've talked to beekeepers who say bee stings are nothing, but whoa, look out for the yellow jackets. Then there are the scientists who work with yellow jackets, and they insist the honeybee sting is really miserable. I personally consider them about the same.'' He also recommends a similar treatment for both stings: a cool poultice of salt or baking soda.

Deaths from either bee or yellow jacket stings are fairly rare, and usually result from a severe allergic reaction to ancillary compounds in the venom rather than to the pain peptides themselves.

If yellow jackets seem more frankly aggressive than bees or hornets, more apt to assault the innocent, they have reason for their paranoia. They are the only wasps in North America that produce large quantities of brood, and so a yellow jacket nest offers an extraordinary nutritional jackpot, as much as two pounds of protein, to potential predators like raccoons, skunks and bears. Thus, they sting at the slightest sign of danger, though their efforts may be in vain. Bears have been seen to continue raiding nests even as they were being repeatedly attacked, and one scientist said he found hundreds of consumed yellow jackets in the belly of a raccoon he had shot.

Yellow jackets also grow increasingly aggressive as summer turns into fall, when they start running out of prey caterpillars or maggots and must rely on scavenged goodies, which people amply if unwillingly supply. Some yellow jacket species, particularly the German yellow jacket, which was introduced onto this continent in the 19th century and lately has spread throughout the country, are pure scavengers to begin with, and so really like hanging around people.

''Yellow jackets have a capacity to learn,'' Dr. Schmidt said. ''They learn not only where the places are that have good food, like picnic tables, but they also learn what time the food will be there. They won't be flying around the tables at 8 in the morning.''

''They pick up on our timetables,'' he said, and so will emerge at lunchtime and scout a favored picnic area even when it is empty.

The yellow jackets are hunting for two food sources: meat, to feed the larvae back at the nest, and sweets, to give themselves energy as they scavenge. The adults also get some sugar from their young charges. Upon bringing back some masticated protein and feeding these so-called meatballs to the larvae, the larvae regurgitate sugar water that the adults then drink.

The workers truly work themselves to death, with their tasks changing as their lives progress, from safe to dangerous. Young workers stay home tending the nest, feeding the larvae or building new cells. Only as they approach the end of their 30-day life span do workers assume treacherous foreign assignments like foraging. Yellow jackets are also adept at switching roles when need be. Workers operate by the clock: if somebody on the assembly line fails to show up for duty, after a certain point the worker next in line assumes her comrade is dead, and does the job herself.

Even the queen is capable of getting down on her hands and knees (and knees), and doing whatever needs doing. When a queen emerges from hibernation in the spring, she must do everything herself: find an abandoned rodent hole in which to start building a nest, lay eggs and hunt for food to feed the first larvae. Only after she has reared enough workers to take over the mundane housekeeping chores does she retreat permanently into the nest and spend the rest of the season laying eggs, as she alone is capable of doing. By late summer or early fall, her colony may consist of several thousand workers.

As the weather cools, the queen starts generating eggs with a new destiny before them: some will be born potential queens, and a scattering of others will emerge as drones, males fit only to inseminate those queens. The virgin queens and males fly up and mate in an autumnal frenzy. Afterward, the males die, soon to be followed by the queen mother and her workers.

For their part, the newly fertilized queens seek shelter for the cold weather to come, and they have a genius for persistence. Studying how yellow jackets survive the harshness of an Alaskan winter, Dr. Brian M. Barnes, a professor of zoophysiology with the Institute of Arctic Biology at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks, and his students tracked yellow jackets in the field.

They determined that a new queen will dig into leaf litter left from the previous autumn. In that way, when the new leaves fall, the queens are under a double layer of protection from cold and moisture. As the snow falls, it covers the leaves, offering yet another insulating blanket.

Measuring the temperature within the leafy shelter, the researchers found that it never fell below about 15 degrees Fahrenheit, compared with an outside temperature of, say, 40 below.

They also learned that the queen was able to ''supercool'' herself, her body tissues falling below freezing without forming deadly ice crystals, partly the result of her being sheltered from any water or ice particles that would set the crystallization process in motion. She subsists in a state of cryogenic preservation, hanging under the leaves, Dr. Barnes said, ''like a mummy.''

It does not take much to arouse her, though. When the researchers brought wintering queens into the lab and thawed them out, the queens rapidly reanimated and, Dr. Barnes said, ''started trying to sting us.''

FlyPaper
12-06-2012, 13:04
Just did Amicalola to Woody Gap, GA this past weekend and between Springer and Justus Creek we passed 3 ground bee nests and 1 hornets nest either directly on the trail or immediately adjacent to it. Twice we didn't see them until someone got stung. Probably a good idea to know if anyone in your group has a reaction and how to handle it.

I got stung just north of Gooch Mountain shelter. One yellow jacket stung me several times. I think he would have kept at it longer had I not shooed him a away.

HikerMom58
12-06-2012, 13:22
Wow, John... that's a very interesting read... thanks for sharing. Hiking from I-40 NOBO to Beauty Spot in late August, we came across so many ground wasps nests, on the trail. It was horrible!! We took off running every time ,with our packs, giving us an extra bit of workout as we hiked. One sting would send us into a full sprint down the trail. We warned anyone we crossed paths with....

Dogwood
12-06-2012, 14:15
Here's another way of looking at it. If someone comes onto your property, comes near your house, sits down on your sofa, smells and tastes sweet through fragrances, etc on their body, you are hungry, you wish to feed your children and possibly yourself or you perceive danger to your property and/or family, what might your reaction be as a human? Bees, wasps, hornets are reacting in a similiar way. They aren't specifically seeking to hurt humans without first perceiving a threat or they are attracted to a smell, sight, resting stop, etc associated with a human.

you and John keep thinking that way on your first comment as misguided as it is - Ewker

I don't think their comments are so misguided. I think they don't perceive it as a huge issue for the vast majority of folks or for folks who already know they have severe allergic reactions(anaphylaxis) to stinging insects and prepare themselves. John and WOO seek to avoid problems by being aware of how their own human behavior affects the behavior of bees, wasps, hornets, etc instead of looking at it as if stinging insects are evil vile creatures seeking to sting humans every chance they get. I think it's the difference between someone taking an uninformed fear based approach to avoiding insect bites verses someone who seeks to avoid problems by applying knowledge and respect.

..... Last week she got stung while sitting on the patio by a wasp. She waited about 10 minutes before she took her epipen. She also called the allergist and he wished she would have waited longer to see how she would react to it the sting without using the epipen. I told to go back out and get stung again...she didn't like that - Ewker

Well, the allergist was trying to determine just how allergic she is to stinging insect bites, like bees, hornets, fire ants, and wasps. Not all folks have severe life threatening allergic reactions(anaphylaxis) to these stinging insect bites requiring epinephrine shots. That's the main active ingredient in EpiPen. Less than 5% of the human population has severe life threatening allergic reactions to stinging insect bites. Epinephrine can have drug interactions with some other prescription pharmaceuticals.

Hey Ewker, maybe the GF is so sweet that the bees, wasps, and hornets are attracted to her? Maybe it's what attracted you to her? LITERALLY! Think about it. There can be a lot of chemistry going on between things attracted to each other Lucky you!

Drybones
12-06-2012, 16:14
We didn't have a lot of things like video games to entertain us as kids so it was always fun to find a wasp nest to stir up and hit'um with a wiffle ball bat or fly swatter when they came in...poor mans version of star fighters. The most fun was a bumble bee nest in a dirt bank next to the house. We'd stir'um up and shoot'um with the water hose when they came in. They always won, we'd drop the hose and run, but we kept go'in back...that was so much more fun than sitting on a couch in front of a tube "playing" a game rather than living it.

Drybones
12-06-2012, 16:21
When my youngest son (born on halloween) was small we looked out the window and saw him catching something in his hand, shaking it, and then holding it to his ear, found out he was catching bumble bees and making the buzz, then he let them go, never got stung.

Pedaling Fool
12-07-2012, 09:54
When my youngest son (born on halloween) was small we looked out the window and saw him catching something in his hand, shaking it, and then holding it to his ear, found out he was catching bumble bees and making the buzz, then he let them go, never got stung.There are various types of bumble bees and carpenter bees and some don't sting, but in most cases it's the female that stings and the male which is unable to sting.

I've been stung by a bumble bee on two occasions and it's no more painful, despite how big and scary they look, than any other bee, but it itches like crazy.

Malto
12-07-2012, 12:49
When I lived in Atlanta I used to have great fun smacking the carpenter bees with a tennis racket. They make quite a thunk. Those things can do quite a bit of damage so I didn't feel too bad for them.

Dogwood
12-07-2012, 14:14
Thanks everyone for sharing especially John Gault for all the "buzz." Good stuff John.

Velvet Gooch
12-07-2012, 16:43
Now, don't be killin' yellow jackets. The rest of the wasps (and hornets) and bees can suck it

mountainman
12-07-2012, 19:23
This fall I set my tent up with the fly over a yellowjacket hole. Didn't know until inhabitants came home for the night. There was no chance of moving the tent, so I had hundreds of mad bees inside my fly but I was safe in the tent. I set my alarm so I could move my tent before daylight and hawl --s.
If your out long enough you'll see about everything.