View Full Version : First Aid/CPR
I have seen a lot of comments and polls on first aid kits, the 10 essentials and the supposed knowledge required to properly utilize them, but very little on the training aspect. Do you take a Basic First Aid/CPR course annually?
SGT Rock
05-02-2005, 11:22
Yes. Combat Lifesaver course. It doesn't get you CPR certified, but it is also a little more advanced than the basic first aid courses I have been in.
I have seen a lot of comments and polls on first aid kits, the 10 essentials and the supposed knowledge required to properly utilize them, but very little on the training aspect. Do you take a Basic First Aid/CPR course annually? Could the average hiker visiting this website properly and effectively apply first aid or CPR?
Footslogger
05-02-2005, 11:27
Yes ...advanced patient care and cardiac life support skills course is required here at the clinic. Actual certification is every 2 years but we do a refresher annually.
'Slogger
AT 2003
I meant this to be a poll, so I started another one. Please delete this thread.
My husband now has to be certified in cpr and first aid to work as a volunteer chainsaw operator with the USFS. I think the cpr has a yearly renewal, the first aid and the chainsaw is every 3, but I could be wrong. hikerwife
SGT Rock
05-02-2005, 11:40
I did you one better, I merged the other thread responses into this thread with poll.
TakeABreak
05-02-2005, 11:57
I do not take the first aid & cpr courses annually, but I have been by the military in this and have had at 8 or 9 military and / or red cross refresher courses over the last 27 years. I am confident I could what be needed.
I do admit I have wanted to take an advance life saver course, and I should take a refresher course every year, glad you brought it up, I am going to go and see when the next available course is and sign up for at least a refresher course it has been 4 years, since my last one.
I was an instructor in Red Cross First Aid (Standard and Advanced) and CPR for about 20 years, but quit about 6 years ago. Last year I took a FA/CPR course for NPS chainsaw certification. I don't feel that annual recertification is necessary for competence after the skills are ingrained over many years.
The Old Fhart
05-02-2005, 13:13
It has been my experience that while standard 1st aid courses are of some help, they are of little use in the backcountry where you really need to be trained in wilderness 1st aid (or WEMT). If you take a NOLS course and they show you 1st aid, it will be far different than the standard 1st aid the American Red Cross teaches.
So where do these outdoors instructors get their training? Well, one place is SOLO in North Conway, NH. Since 1976, SOLO has instructed over 75,000 individuals, guides, mountain rescue teams, and staffs from organizations such as NOLS, Outward Bound, the Appalachian Mountain Club, Nantahala Outdoor Center, The Sierra Club, and the National Park Service as well as fire, rescue and ambulance services.
The NH chapter of AMC sends all their volunteer trip leaders to SOLO for training and covers the cost. At our NHAMC Mountain Safety Workshops, held 3 times per year, all our instructors are trained and we also have an instructor who is an expert in cold weather and backcountry injuries, and was 2004 NH EMS educator of the year. Many of us have been involved in search and rescue operations in the backcountry and know the value of wilderness 1st aid training first hand.
This past year there was a group of about 12 NHAMC leaders who climbed Mt. Rainier and on the way down found this woman with little more than a fanny pack who had broken her ankle while glissading with crampons (a BIG no-no) and was hypothermic. The local ranger who came by let the NH group handle the entire rescue because they were totally prepared and even made a rescue litter out of climbing rope. She and her husband had no extra (or even necessary) gear but the group had extra gear, sleeping bags, tarps, etc, to make the “human burrito” or hypothermia wrap to protect her. After they stabilized her ankle and re-warmed her they carried her slowly to an area where a chopper could land and take her to a hospital.
I know this just ain’t gonna happen but it is a good idea for everyone to be prepared by having the proper gear and training for whatever conditions they are going to encounter. And, if you’re not prepared, just hope someone like me with a big 1st aid kit comes by to help you. :)
Pencil Pusher
05-02-2005, 17:42
No not annually. Good stuff to know for those that haven't been exposed to it. I'll be interested in reading old fart's account in Accidents in North American Mountaineering.
VAMTNHIKER
05-02-2005, 18:53
Having been a Red Cross and Heart Association CPR Instructor and a New York State EMT Instructor back in the '80s and '90s, I just review the latest wilderness first aid and EMT gouge every year or so...
Up until when I retired from the Navy (2000), I was "trained" (e.g. not certified) in CPR annually... this was a job requirement due to being an Electricians Mate / Nuclear Engineering dude...
"Train me or Trade me!"
...though I did receive another 8 hours of first aid training during a Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) course this past winter...
Trail Yeti
05-03-2005, 13:54
Wilderness First Responder (WFR) recert every 3 years, and I recert my CPR every year
CPR each year, Wilderness First Aid every 2 yrs. :)
Every year for the past 30 years. Was an instructor for 7 of those years.
Been a EMT/Paramedic for 23 years, so now I am required to do the CPR thing.
Doctari.
I think annually is a little excessive unless you are a paramedic or something.
I think one should understand first aid and treatment options, and I think taking a course or two is a good idea. But no need to repeat it annually until I get so stupid that I can't remember from year to year. Which could happen any year now....
Bob Baker
06-24-2005, 18:18
I take them every year because it is required by my job. Obviously, common sense is the most important thing but these classes are helpful. I would say that the CPR class is more useful than the first aid because most of the first aid stuff is general knowledge.
gsingjane
06-24-2005, 18:29
Girl Scout leaders are required to take First Aid every three years and re-cert in CPR every year. Every year I do it, I am amazed at how much I forgot since the last time... thank goodness I haven't needed anything except "Basic Boo-Boos" yet...
Jane in CT
wacocelt
06-24-2005, 18:57
I was a combat life saver in the Infantry and have since participated in Red Cross Emergency/Disaster Training, but am far from yearly certification for CPR or First Aid. I am confident that my 'basic' abilities should suffice for most injuries and illness that may be encountered on the trail. If my skills are lacking I still retain the strength and motivation to either move the injured person or double time off a mountain and retrieve skilled personel.
Scrunchy
06-24-2005, 20:26
To be a sawyer, you now have to have CPR, First Aid, and a Chainsaw Course. I ended up taking everything to get my sawyer certification, and wilderness first aid was definitely the most valuable! It was a fun, interesting and extremely useful course. 2 year renewal on Wilderness First Aid, and one year on CPR.
Duct tape and a bandana. ;)
TakeABreak
06-25-2005, 01:03
Well since this thread started I have gone to the local Red Cross and asked about a wilderness first aid type course, i explained to them I have the first aid & cpr training and military training and why I wanted a wilderness first aid class.
They said the Red Cross had discontinued that type of courses a couple years ago and were working to re-institute a wilderness first aid course or asimilar type of course.
I Guess I will have to go where The Old Fhart, mentioned in his comments, to get more advanced training.
Pencil Pusher
07-01-2005, 00:38
I was a combat life saver...
Oh the humor potential. Instead I'll just envision guys poking each other with IVs for practice. And while I bite my tongue with a giggle for the rest of the post, that is a good attitude to have.
As a Combat Medic besides tons of training exercises in woods , deserts and mtn's I have been deployed in haiti, bosnia and am currently wrapping up my year in Iraq. I say this from working experience in woods , ditches, alleys , roofs , aircraft, and boats . and plenty of miles on the trail. CPR certification would MOST LIKELY be useless in a hiking situation , more of a survivor benefit ("I did CPR even though I knew it would be too late because I just couldn't sit there") If you've ever done CPR, good CPR , you know how tough and exhausting physically it can be. I am in great shape and I know that my compressions will get sloppy after 15 min if I don't concentrate. on the trail it could be hrs maybe days before a wilderness rescue crew arrives. I am NOT saying CPR will never do you any good on the trail. the only thing I can guarantee is that if you NEVER learn it will NEVER help you. Plus the medics law of bad luck says that after enough time you will run into every exception , every contraindication given enough time.
So no CPR/first aid is definitely not enough medical training to go happily skipping down the trail thinking "hey I got everything covered and can handle everything that comes my way"
What kinds of classes are good? Any kind of wilderness medical classes that take into account the environment that you will be in. If you are going HIGH make sure that the classes you take go deep into HACE /HAPE and other high altitude disorders and treatments. If you're a climber a good Idea would be a Rope specific course , or high angle rescue or something like that. Regular hiking I would make sure that the course was pretty broad and didn't spend too much time on high altitude which is my biggest complaint about ever seminar I have taken regarding outdoors medicine. Also make sure that it's focused HEAVILY with practical exercises on the rescue aspect. the getting the bleeding stopped /ankle splinted is pretty easy most of the time. It's getting that 200lb monster with the twisted wrenched unable to bear weight ankle down trail to the road a mile , 5 , 10, miles away.
I personally don't carry a 1st AID kit hiking , closest I come is a few pepsid AC because Mountain House Spaghetti gives me heart burn but is still my Favorite. I carry nothing because I have enough experience to handle what is handle-able by improvising splints, and know how to make a litter with a blanket or sleeping bag, rope etc.
If you can't take a course then buy a book and read it , thats better than nothing. the good thing about an actual course is the practical hands on exercises , It's free experience ! If you cant then get a book and splint up your girfriend or wife or husband or just to make things difficult your golden retreiver.. One of the most economical ways is to join an outdoors organization that offers first aid classes a couple times a year. or how about volunteering with your local emergency medical department /fire department , you training and experience will be free! and theyre flexible and plus your instructor will actually have experience working in the medical field. Better yet if cose enough join a search and rescue team. They always need people to drive the trucks and help carry. And No , the CPR /first aid class is not gonna NEVER help you, some day you will definitely be the first one to drive by the wreck , or hear your neighbor screaming. Just because it didn't help you on the AT last week doesn't mean it isn't going to be life or death for somebody else.
Me personally I'd rather have a Combat life-saver around when I am tearing t-shirts into strips and getting out the bandannas and breaking sticks than a doctor or RN inexperienced with wilderness medicine. Why Because I know I'll have help when It's time to bend over and pick 'ol dude up and start carrying him. No matter how succesful or unsuccessful you are, you always wind up carrying them.
Hope this helps
SGT Rock
07-17-2005, 15:44
Hey Dream, maybe when you get back we can set up a Whiteblaze CLS course. The casualty carry lane will be something to remember.
restless
07-17-2005, 16:47
At present, I only have standard first aid/CPR certification. in the past, I have carried Wilderness First Aid certification, and found the training for this course to be of much more value. Under most Red Cross first aid courses the standard line is to first call 911. But in the wilderness, that may not be practical. By taking a wilderness first aid course, I learned about how to deal with real world circumstances and how to deal with injuries in the backcountry with what I had on hand. I highly reccommend a wilderness course to anyone who spends any time in the backcountry.
Hey Dream, maybe when you get back we can set up a Whiteblaze CLS course. The casualty carry lane will be something to remember. I am down for that Top! How Much Pyro should I bring ? you wanna use blanks.....no lets use TRACERS!
who wants to sign up ?
SGT Rock
07-17-2005, 17:32
I can get some 7.62 blank and fire it from my rifle. If anyone has a Mini14 we could probably get some 5.56 blank too. All we need is a good moulage kit, a SKED, some IVs, stretchers (collapsible and not) some CLS bags, and a few CLS books. I bet we could get some good AIs like Wacocelt and Mule to help you out.
I've been an EMT for 8 years and also took WFA (wilderness first aid) some time ago. I thought about WEMT, but I've had enough classes and re-certs for one life.
I can get some 7.62 blank and fire it from my rifle. If anyone has a Mini14 we could probably get some 5.56 blank too. All we need is a good moulage kit, a SKED, some IVs, stretchers (collapsible and not) some CLS bags, and a few CLS books. I bet we could get some good AIs like Wacocelt and Mule to help you out. you know I was kidding right !
SGT Rock
07-18-2005, 09:59
you know I was kidding right !
Yes I did, but there weere otheres out there that probably thought we weren't until now :datz
RenaissanceMan98
07-18-2005, 11:50
Yes I did, but there weere otheres out there that probably thought we weren't until now :datz
I thought it sounded kinda fun, but then again, I'm former army.
As far as CPR/First Aid goes:
I am a current instructor of both for the American Heart Association. Take a first aid coure. Wilderness F.A. from SOLO or a like group is excellent, but if not available to you, at least take a basic F.A. class from red cross or American Heart.
If you last took CPR more than 5 years ago, YOU DON"T KNOW CPR. CPR protocol changes every 5 years. Ongoing studies teach us more every year, and every 5 updates are placed into effect. Remember, CPR is only about 35 years old, so we are still learning and tweaking the techniques. There is also the fact that if you never use a skill, you lose it.
And, finally, take a CPR course that teaches you how to use an Automated Defibrillator, these things are the greates things to happen to the heart since blood was invented.
icemanat95
07-20-2005, 20:42
Just about any critical skill is cyclical. By that I mean, just when you figure you've got all the fine points mastered, you should go back to the fundamentals again and work on honing them and re-honing them, over and over again. It's amazing how muddled up your fundamentals get by the application of advanced techniques.
A master sharpshooter is always going back to sight picture, natural point of aim, breath control and trigger squeeze, whether he (or she) is a Marine sniper reaching out and touching someone at 1000 meters, or an olympic air rifle shooter hitting dime sized marks at 50 yards. Likewise, the lifesaving practitioner who is not constantly going back to practice their basic skills may find themselves screwing up under pressure.
All that said...I'm way past die for re-certifying in Wilderness First Aid.
The comment above that CPR is largely a wasted effort in the backcountry is absolutely true. The practice of CPR is generally built on the assumption that within minutes a team of EMT's or Paramedics is going to arrive with a full defib kit, medications, etc. to restart that heart. CPR's practical use in most cases is to try to keep the blood oxygenated and pumping at some level to preserve the brain until the heart can be re-startd by more advanced methods. But even with ambulance support only minutes away, most cardiac arrests are permanent, and we aren't talking 51% here folks, the figure is closer to 90% if I remember correctly.
All that gloominess said, it's better to try and fail than to give up without trying.
I teach frist aid and cpr classes several times a year, spent most of my life working (Nurse Practitioner) in the emergency room. Now I'm retired from nursing and changing careers- going into fashion design!!
I took the annual military course. I also took CPR at the YMCA but had to quit when I fell in love with Resuci-Annie. Our love endures...
justusryans
10-03-2005, 07:58
I took the annual military course. I also took CPR at the YMCA but had to quit when I fell in love with Resuci-Annie. Our love endures...You're lucky! We had resuci-Andy!:D
First Aid- yes
CPR- informally. I take the class but I don't do the certification. In my field I would legally be required to perform CPR on our clients and I have some objections to that, both moral and safety wise.
I have seen a lot of comments and polls on first aid kits, the 10 essentials and the supposed knowledge required to properly utilize them, but very little on the training aspect. Do you take a Basic First Aid/CPR course annually?
have taken an AMERICAN RED CROSS CPR/FIRST AID course several times in the past & plan on taking it again in the future along with getting DISASTER RELIEF Course thru my local (Nashville) Red Cross Chapter.
SGT Rock
10-03-2005, 10:04
Just got my CLS re-cert.
The one item I won't remove from my pack regardless of weight issues is my emerg. mouth to mouth breathing mask. Handy!
Yes. Combat Lifesaver course. It doesn't get you CPR certified, but it is also a little more advanced than the basic first aid courses I have been in.
Hey Rock, glad to see you back from playing Army. The poll should be changed to whether your CPR is up-to-date. Red Cross requires annually, American Heart Assn every two years, American safety institute every two years.
I too was trained quite often being in a "front line" unit in the USAF. We had to undergo mass casulity and buddy care, I took EMS courses as well. I am now a medical assistant and am confident that I could handle things in the field. However, a note to another poster (forgot the name) if you have never done actual CPR then you cannot know how exhausting it is. I spent 9 minutes on someone before they came back, I was totally exhausted, one thing I carry is a one way microshield because they will puke if done correctly most of the time. That last one is from experience, seconds don't taste that great unless you order from the menu.
Have a good one.
the other Lone Wolf
speedr73
03-01-2009, 21:00
I got my certification from www.americansti.org which is the American Safety Training Institute.
They have a very comprehensive site, videos, and are responsive if you need help. I also like that I could revisit up to 30 days after the test if I forgot something
brooklynkayak
03-04-2009, 11:57
I'm Red Cross First Aid certified. Renewal is every three years for the Red Cross, not annually. So I voted no.
Red Cross CPR is annual. Mine recently expired.
NREMT-Paramedic
MN EMSRB-Paramedic (same as NR)
ACLS
Healthcare Provider CPR
PALS
PHTLS
That's my list, although most of those recerts are every two years.