View Full Version : Denali - Grizzley Kills Hiker
About_Time
08-25-2012, 19:49
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BEAR_MAULING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-25-17-15-56
AP news alert on hiker killed yesterday afternoon.
___so sad____:(
Sad? For the Bear. The hiker killed that bear as sure as shooting it with a gun.
I am sorry for the hikers family, but he brought it on himself from the report.
MuddyWaters
08-25-2012, 21:02
Its sad that the dead person apparently took it upon himself to get ridiculously close to a grizzly for photographs.
SunnyWalker
08-26-2012, 17:39
Sad, tragic. My condolences and sympathy to the family of the hiker.
SassyWindsor
08-26-2012, 17:52
When are these nut case hikers going to obey the rules. Result: a hiker is dead and now we have one less bear in the wild. Reminds me of the Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend, nuts that should have been arrested. An animal should not be destroyed unless it exhibits stalking and/or attacks toward humans.
SassyWindsor
08-26-2012, 17:54
...attacks toward humans that was provoked by said humans.
SassyWindsor
08-26-2012, 17:55
That was NOT provoked by humans. I'll eventually get it right.
SassyWindsor - I got you! The truly bad part is the bear pays for some idiots stupidity. The lack of brain power some use is amazing. There is a video of some lady in Alaska just about walking up to a grizzly, she gets about 10 feet away and the bear rushes her but doesn't attack.
SassyWindsor
08-26-2012, 20:01
I'd expect a lawsuit against the NPS, Dept of Ag, etc. Here's a link to a kid being killed by a bear and the following lawsuit, this however, was by a bad bear. $1.9 million awarded.
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_47a6ff34-75e5-11e0-afff-001cc4c03286.html
I'd expect a lawsuit against the NPS, Dept of Ag, etc. Here's a link to a kid being killed by a bear and the following lawsuit, this however, was by a bad bear. $1.9 million awarded.
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_47a6ff34-75e5-11e0-afff-001cc4c03286.html
They could try that but would it would be dismissed. He was warned of the danger in a class at Denali before he went out. In the US it's call assumption of risk. Sort of like getting hit by a golf ball on a golf course.
Wise Old Owl
08-26-2012, 20:24
Sassy very interesting find...
Rifleman
08-26-2012, 21:47
If you go into bear country you've got to be prepared for what they might do. Ultimately we are all responsible for our own protection. Anyone not willing to accept that responsibility should be fed to the bears. JMHO.
poloaa009
08-26-2012, 22:52
Great thread,Thank you to all those who posted...., keep them coming http://www.couponsavings.info/rec/smile.jpg http://www.couponsavings.info/for/smile.jpg
It's been said before:"When you enter the wilderness, you become part of the food chain".
Suckerfish
08-27-2012, 10:40
Has there ever been a hiker eaten by a black bear on the AT?
So sad, I watched the documentary "Grizzly Man" a few nights ago, another sad story but that guy was a little on the edge of the spectrum.
Boondoggle
08-27-2012, 11:55
True it is sad.....but I call this "Thinning of the herd" or the "stupid shall be punished"
HikerMom58
08-27-2012, 12:04
The victim's name was released and here's a first-hand account:
http://www.kentucky.com/2010/06/29/1...ar-attack.html (http://www.kentucky.com/2010/06/29/1327571/gorge-closes-after-bear-attack.html)
I just did a quick google search for you Suckerfish & it took me to this thread on WB... funny! I hope the link works.. if not, then, just look it up yourself. I know this kind of attack is rare from a black bear.
Other rare things can happen like a rabid raccoon running into a shelter and biting a hikers butt while sleeping. Strange things happen but are so rare..... If you read the entire thread about the black bear attack there may be some truth in what is being said about the bear being "messed with", one too many times from humans.
My family and friends laugh at me, everytime, but I carry bear mace with me whenever I go out. I just laugh at myself 2 but that mace goes with me everytime.. LOL!! I love to be in the woods but I know I'm really in their home...
SunnyWalker
08-27-2012, 12:08
Little strong here calling the deceased "idiot" and so on and so forth.
Sad? For the Bear. The hiker killed that bear as sure as shooting it with a gun.
I am sorry for the hikers family, but he brought it on himself from the report.
And now they killed the bear.
HikerMom58
08-27-2012, 12:12
Little strong here calling the deceased "idiot" and so on and so forth.
I agree...
Tipi Walter
08-27-2012, 12:16
I'd expect a lawsuit against the NPS, Dept of Ag, etc. Here's a link to a kid being killed by a bear and the following lawsuit, this however, was by a bad bear. $1.9 million awarded.
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_47a6ff34-75e5-11e0-afff-001cc4c03286.html
Lawyers and bears, a terrible combination. All wilderness travel comes with risks. A guy gets hypothermia and dies---do we get a shotgun and shoot out into the cold night sky? A tree falls on someone---do we cut down all the trees? A yellow jacket stings a hiker and she dies---do we spray the forest with insecticides?
Bear attacks are accidents just like car wrecks. Accepted risk. Someone dies on a highway---do we bulldoze the pavement up and shoot the other drivers? I say leave the bears alone, there's already been enough "ethnic cleansing" of the bear population. In 1850 there were around 100,000 grizzlies in the lower 48, now there are 700. Humans? We have about 310 million.
HikerMom58
08-27-2012, 12:17
And now they killed the bear.
That's sad as well... loose-loose situation
Tom Murphy
08-27-2012, 12:22
Little strong here calling the deceased "idiot" and so on and so forth.
I feel sorry for him and his family but, please, we should acknowledge that his own actions lead to his death.
How would you describe what he did? was he being stupid?
surfnturk
08-27-2012, 12:33
The guy was a freakin moron and an idiot, probably listening to other idiots proudly proclaim that they dont carry a gun, bear spray or anything cause "they dont feel threatened".
FYI, this thrtead is about alaskan bears, right?
Feral Bill
08-27-2012, 12:45
The guy was a freakin moron and an idiot, probably listening to other idiots proudly proclaim that they dont carry a gun, bear spray or anything cause "they dont feel threatened".
FYI, this thrtead is about alaskan bears, right?
I worked at Denali some years ago, and saw numerous grizzleys, some (inadvertently) quite close. This was before bear spray and mandatory lectures.
If you have not had the experience, it's impossible to appreciate the draw of a amgnificent animal like that to a person with a camera. I am not a moron or an idiot , but still foolishly followed a grizzley that walked past my tent at about fifty yards trying to get a shot. Until you have encountered a similar situation, I'd suggest not judging others.
FlyPaper
08-27-2012, 12:51
I worked at Denali some years ago, and saw numerous grizzleys, some (inadvertently) quite close. This was before bear spray and mandatory lectures.
If you have not had the experience, it's impossible to appreciate the draw of a amgnificent animal like that to a person with a camera. I am not a moron or an idiot , but still foolishly followed a grizzley that walked past my tent at about fifty yards trying to get a shot. Until you have encountered a similar situation, I'd suggest not judging others.
Indeed.
"Made a poor choice" is all I would say. This choice led to death. I've made many poor choices in my life, some could have led to death. I don't consider myself to be an idiot. It would take a much broader pattern of poor choices to earn that label. And none of us know enough about this guy to ascertain whether or not he routinely made poor choices.
HikerMom58
08-27-2012, 12:51
The guy was a freakin moron and an idiot, probably listening to other idiots proudly proclaim that they dont carry a gun, bear spray or anything cause "they dont feel threatened".
FYI, this thrtead is about alaskan bears, right?
Yes, we are talking about a grizzly bear, you're right about that. It seems you are right about this man not making good choices & who knows what knowledge he had or was told going into this situation. But it just seems cold and heartless to me (and others) to hear you (and others) say that he was a moron, idiot or stupid. It's not like you, myself and everyone else hasn't ever done anything stupid ourselves. It may just be luck sometimes that we didn't die ourselves... you know what I'm sayin? I would hope that if I died, doing something dumb, my family wouldn't have to read things like this said about me. That's all I'm saying... sometimes the TRUTH can really hurt....
FlyPaper
08-27-2012, 12:53
Lawyers and bears, a terrible combination. All wilderness travel comes with risks. A guy gets hypothermia and dies---do we get a shotgun and shoot out into the cold night sky? A tree falls on someone---do we cut down all the trees? A yellow jacket stings a hiker and she dies---do we spray the forest with insecticides?
Bear attacks are accidents just like car wrecks. Accepted risk. Someone dies on a highway---do we bulldoze the pavement up and shoot the other drivers? I say leave the bears alone, there's already been enough "ethnic cleansing" of the bear population. In 1850 there were around 100,000 grizzlies in the lower 48, now there are 700. Humans? We have about 310 million.
Perhaps a bear expert could chime in. This bear has now tasted human flesh. Does that make him more likely to attack humans in the future? If so, regardless of whose fault, I can agree with the decision to kill the bear.
surfnturk
08-27-2012, 13:13
I worked at Denali some years ago, and saw numerous grizzleys, some (inadvertently) quite close. This was before bear spray and mandatory lectures.
If you have not had the experience, it's impossible to appreciate the draw of a amgnificent animal like that to a person with a camera. I am not a moron or an idiot , but still foolishly followed a grizzley that walked past my tent at about fifty yards trying to get a shot. Until you have encountered a similar situation, I'd suggest not judging others.
I speak from experience. My last trip in May was specifically for taking pics.
What does that have to do with being stupid and irresponsible in regards to grizzlys? You have to be an idiot if your so overwhelmed with the majesty of a grizzly (and they are majestic) that you forget the most basic safety precautions?
Thats laughable
Odd Man Out
08-27-2012, 13:25
The guy was a freakin moron and an idiot, probably listening to other idiots proudly proclaim that they dont carry a gun, bear spray or anything cause "they dont feel threatened".
FYI, this thrtead is about alaskan bears, right?
Yes, Denali is in Alaska. And because Denali and the eastern US have completely different bear issues, I will assume you did NOT intend to include AT hikers "who dont carry a gun, bear spray or anything" along with "other idiots".
surfnturk
08-27-2012, 13:27
Yes, Denali is in Alaska. And because Denali and the eastern US have completely different bear issues, I will assume you did NOT intend to include AT hikers "who dont carry a gun, bear spray or anything" along with "other idiots".
The thread was about Alaska and my post was regarding Alaska.
Odd Man Out
08-27-2012, 13:28
Perhaps a bear expert could chime in. This bear has now tasted human flesh. Does that make him more likely to attack humans in the future? If so, regardless of whose fault, I can agree with the decision to kill the bear.
I agree that killing the bear was unnecessary, only in the sense that the whole chain of events was not necessary had the human victim followed rules and guidelines. But after the fact, killing of the bear victim probably was necessary. (P.S. - I do not inend to imply that I am a bear expert - I am just adding my opinion with the others).
HikerMom58
08-27-2012, 13:32
Yes, Denali is in Alaska. And because Denali and the eastern US have completely different bear issues, I will assume you did NOT intend to include AT hikers "who dont carry a gun, bear spray or anything" along with "other idiots".
Oh great... I can see this thread is going south really fast. I don't think he means that at all....:eek:
surfnturk
08-27-2012, 13:33
Yes, we are talking about a grizzly bear, you're right about that. It seems you are right about this man not making good choices & who knows what knowledge he had or was told going into this situation. But it just seems cold and heartless to me (and others) to hear you (and others) say that he was a moron, idiot or stupid. It's not like you, myself and everyone else hasn't ever done anything stupid ourselves. It may just be luck sometimes that we didn't die ourselves... you know what I'm sayin? I would hope that if I died, doing something dumb, my family wouldn't have to read things like this said about me. That's all I'm saying... sometimes the TRUTH can really hurt....
I agree. However, there are times when you can't afford to do stupid things, particularly when they are so abviously easy to avoid in the case of something that can kill you, no questions asked.
HikerMom58
08-27-2012, 13:39
I agree. However, there are times when you can't afford to do stupid things, particularly when they are so abviously easy to avoid in the case of something that can kill you, no questions asked.
Thanks for understanding my point, surfnturk. :)
surfnturk
08-27-2012, 13:40
My pleasure
HooKooDooKu
08-27-2012, 14:01
Has there ever been a hiker eaten by a black bear on the AT? ...
I don't know about the AT, but around 10 years ago, a woman in the Great Smoky Moutains National Park was the victim of a "peditory attack" by a black bear. The bear attacked, killed, and partially consumed the woman. Full details to this day are still not known because the woman was alone at the moment of the attack. But from the evidence collected, the attack was NOT provoked, and the bear was not emaciated, nor was there a lack of wild food at the time.
The reason I point this story out is because this is the ONLY known death in the Smoky Moutain from a black bear... and even then it was something of a freek occurance and no reason could ever be found for the attack.
So while not specific to the AT, the point is that deaths due to black bear do occur, but they are extreamly rare.
I know the national park service does NOT recomend any form of weapon (such as bear spray) be taking in the back country because of bears. They just provide instructions for what to do in a bear encounter, which for the most part isn't anything much more than:
1. Shout at the bear,
2. Throw things at the bear,
3. Fight the bear
Black bears are stronger than humans, but most adults out-weight an adult black bear, so your chances are better to fight in a worst-case black bear encounter than attempting to play dead.
Of course I've had many sources say they are more afraid of the wild pigs found in the Smokies than bears, and the pigs seem to have more of a popensity to be agressive than black bears.
Tipi Walter
08-27-2012, 14:20
I don't know about the AT, but around 10 years ago, a woman in the Great Smoky Moutains National Park was the victim of a "peditory attack" by a black bear.
A Peditory Attack is very rare whereby a creature, perhaps a bear or a wild pig, attacks ONLY the feet of a human. "Peditors" abound in some wilderness areas and it's common to find animal dens full of foot bones and toenails.
A Peditory Attack is very rare whereby a creature, perhaps a bear or a wild pig, attacks ONLY the feet of a human. "Peditors" abound in some wilderness areas and it's common to find animal dens full of foot bones and toenails.
:) Awesome. Thumbs up.
Feral Bill
08-27-2012, 16:44
I speak from experience. My last trip in May was specifically for taking pics.
What does that have to do with being stupid and irresponsible in regards to grizzlys? You have to be an idiot if your so overwhelmed with the majesty of a grizzly (and they are majestic) that you forget the most basic safety precautions?
Thats laughable You don't have to be stupid to do something stupid. I suggest that everyone on the site who has never done anything stupid that could have got them killed speak up. In fact, I think I'll start a poll.
Black bears are stronger than humans, but most adults out-weight an adult black bear, so your chances are better to fight in a worst-case black bear encounter than attempting to play dead.
Where did you get this info from. How small do you think a black bear is. Saw 8 last month. At least 4 of doubled my weight. The yearling were smaller.
HooKooDooKu
08-27-2012, 23:41
Black bears are stronger than humans, but most adults out-weight an adult black bear, so your chances are better to fight in a worst-case black bear encounter than attempting to play dead.
Where did you get this info from. How small do you think a black bear is. Saw 8 last month. At least 4 of doubled my weight. The yearling were smaller.
Checked Wikipedia where they say a black bear can range in weight from 90lbs-370lbs for females, 125lbs-550lbs for males. Now while I can't sight a source, I recall years ago an artical I read about bears in the Smokies, and a 400lbs bear (which would unfortunately NOT weight twice my weight) would be considered HUGE... and would only occur in "garbage" bear (bears making their way into populated areas to eat from trash-cans), not bears strictly feeding in the back-country (in GSMNP) So I'm under the impression that the typical black bear in the Smokies would be around 150lbs.
Now compared to a Grizzly bear (which weight range STARTS at about 200lbs and can top well over 1000lbs) humans are a bit more on equal footing in size to a black bear compared to a brown bear.
However, the national park service is my source for the advice on fighting back against a black bear (don't play dead): http://www.nps.gov/grsm/naturescience/black-bears.htm
Mountain Mike
08-27-2012, 23:51
A Peditory Attack is very rare whereby a creature, perhaps a bear or a wild pig, attacks ONLY the feet of a human. "Peditors" abound in some wilderness areas and it's common to find animal dens full of foot bones and toenails.
+1 Thru hikers are safe from this type of attack due to the stench of their feet! Far more pungent & eye watering than any bear spray!
HooKooDooKu
08-27-2012, 23:58
I've tried doing some additional research on size of black bears. Every source seems to be using a different averages, but I'm finding a few sources that claim the average female is about 100lb and the average male is 250lb (here's one such source... I have no clue where they get their info) http://www.allsmokymountainvacations.com/black-bears.html
I've tried doing some additional research on size of black bears. Every source seems to be using a different averages, but I'm finding a few sources that claim the average female is about 100lb and the average male is 250lb (here's one such source... I have no clue where they get their info) http://www.allsmokymountainvacations.com/black-bears.html
Could be regional variation in size. Sort of like Whitetail deer are scrawny here in eastern NC and almost twice the size in other places.
This species exhibit sexual dimorphism and the females are much smaller than the males. Females weigh 100-200 pounds while males are 200-500 in weight, depending on age, season, and food availability. Their height is practically the same – 80-100 cm at the shoulders, and the length is about 1,5-1,8 m. The average black bear size can be seen in a photo of bear breeds and may be viewed on a bear farm.
I would not think a human a chance of fight off even a small bear as strong as they are. Good thing they are runners 99.9% of the time. Years ago I saw a few bears along the trail and they were of the smaller variety. THis year I saw 4 huge bears in the SNP. I live around the great dismal swamp area and I have seen many bears weighed up to 600lbs. NC state recond is just over 600lbs.
Ya'll have no compassion - really unimpressed with this mentality. If you stumbled on a bear you wouldn't watch it?
Shame on you. Think again dog breaths.
surfnturk
08-28-2012, 11:49
You don't have to be stupid to do something stupid. I suggest that everyone on the site who has never done anything stupid that could have got them killed speak up. In fact, I think I'll start a poll.
What is your point? Thats it's ok to do stupid things that get you killed cause everybody else does it? Sounds like you want to justify this morons actions cause "we all do it".
surfnturk
08-28-2012, 12:28
Due to the frequency of human-bear encounters, the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Branch is advising hikers, hunters and fishermen and any persons that use the out of doors in a recreational or work related function toi take extra precautions in the field.
We advise the outdoorsmen to wear little noisy bells on clothing so as to give advance warning to any bears that might be close by so you don't take them by surprise.
We also advise anyone using the out-of-doors to carry "Pepper Spray" with them in case of an encounter with a bear.
Outdoorsmen should also be on the watch for fresh bear activity, and be able to tell the difference between black bear feces and grizzly bear feces. Black bear feces is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear **** has bells in it and smells like pepper.
I guess that hiker wasn't paying attention to these guidelines.
HikerMom58
08-28-2012, 12:57
Due to the frequency of human-bear encounters, the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Branch is advising hikers, hunters and fishermen and any persons that use the out of doors in a recreational or work related function toi take extra precautions in the field.
We advise the outdoorsmen to wear little noisy bells on clothing so as to give advance warning to any bears that might be close by so you don't take them by surprise.
We also advise anyone using the out-of-doors to carry "Pepper Spray" with them in case of an encounter with a bear.
Outdoorsmen should also be on the watch for fresh bear activity, and be able to tell the difference between black bear feces and grizzly bear feces. Black bear feces is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear **** has bells in it and smells like pepper.
I guess that hiker wasn't paying attention to these guidelines.
I really wish that the hiker was paying attention to these guidelines, surfnturk. For some reason, he didn't. He could not have been thinking straight or maybe he thought he was "tough". He may have received bad advice. I'm saying no matter what the reasons- even the thought that he "deserved" death for his stupidity, is still sad to me.
I know you feel really strongly about this situation & that's OK. Maybe, it's easier for you (and others) to deal with the news of this hiker in the manner in which you do... But, when others read your reaction to this news, we, ourselves then have a reaction to your reaction.
You're Ok... We are all OK... unfortunately that hiker is NOT OK, now. I feel bad for his family 2.
surfnturk
08-28-2012, 20:02
I would guess that if he, the hiker, had time to procure a thought he would have thought "*I really screwed up know!". And my guess is he would want everyone to think he was a dumbass in order to prevent kind of thing happening. I know I would.
HikerMom58
08-28-2012, 20:09
I would guess that if he, the hiker, had time to procure a thought he would have thought "*I really screwed up know!". And my guess is he would want everyone to think he was a dumbass in order to prevent kind of thing happening. I know I would.
Well, I agree he would like to tell us not to do as he did, for sure. Learn from my mistakes is the word, right! :)
realdeal64
08-28-2012, 20:19
Used to Live in Yellowstone Montana,you really have to be bear aware,and know what things can trigger an attack.
HikerMom58
08-28-2012, 20:27
I can imagine. I'm sure this guy loosing his life will no doubt save someone else's because they will have learned to be bear aware when they may not have been before. I bet it was a nice place to live.....