Crampons or snowshoes or both?

[Timinator]

As I said in one of my other posts I'm probably going to do part of the CDT in winter and I'm currently mulling over what to bring for snow crossing (it should be noted I have zero experience winter hiking, I'm going to start training this year). Right now I'm looking at http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowshoes/ascent/evo-ascent/product and http://hillsound.com/2products/trail_crampon_pro.php because they seem to be the lightest and most reliable I can find. Is there a reason I should carry both or can the snow shoe crampons handle what I need.

[Mags]

Which part? Besides snow conditions, you have to watch out for avalanche conditions, too esp in Colorado.

[Timinator]

Wyoming and montana.

[Snowleopard]

As I said in one of my other posts I'm probably going to do part of the CDT in winter and I'm currently mulling over what to bring for snow crossing (it should be noted I have zero experience winter hiking, I'm going to start training this year). Right now I'm looking at http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowshoes/ascent/evo-ascent/product and http://hillsound.com/2products/trail_crampon_pro.php because they seem to be the lightest and most reliable I can find. Is there a reason I should carry both or can the snow shoe crampons handle what I need.
You really need to get winter hiking/backpacking/mountaineering experience before you try this.
One way to start on this is the ADK Winter Mountaineering School http://www.winterschool.org/ or the equivalent courses at the AMC. Also, some AMC chapters teach winter courses. The AMC and ADK.org chapters have many trips in the winter and you should go on as many as you can; the leaders and participants are often very experienced. An avalanche awareness course is probably necessary also, but probably best done out west.

I have little experience out west in winter, so perhaps Mags can correct me here:
The Hillsound Pro is excellent for east coast conditions; I have a Camp Magix version of the same thing. BUT, I would consider these unacceptable for conditions where you might die if you fall. On steep hard ice you need real crampons and boots that are stiff enough to use them. Wyoming and Montana in winter will be cold enough that you probably should have plastic double mountaineering boots. You also need an ice axe and, even more important, knowledge of how to use it.
Snowshoes: you will want snowshoes. The thing I don't know is if you need snowshoes with more flotation (more area) to handle deep, cold, powdery snow.

[BrianLe]

I think it would help a lot if you (OP) were to expand on what you mean by "do part of the CDT in winter". Are you talking about just the normal snow experience both NOBOs and SOBOs encounter, or are you really talking about starting way out of season? The later "wyoming and montana" reply suggests to me perhaps you just mean a standard SOBO start sometime in June.

If that's what you mean, I suggest you drop the idea of snowshoes. Consolidated spring snow is a lot different from dealing with fresh snow. Some will bring real crampons; I was happy with kahtoola microspikes; you just have to have some sense for when these are adequate, and when you need to think instead about an alternate route.

I'm not saying that light snowshoes would be of no use in June in Montana, but at least my personal experience was that I virtually never would have wanted them. A couple of times maybe on soft afternoon snow, but even then it varies sometimes so much whether you're in trees or out.

[Tom Murphy]

Crampons and snowshoes have very different functions.

Crampons are used to gain traction on ice where a fall or a slide would injury you [exposure]. Snowshoes are used distribute your weight across a wider area so that you don't sink so much [posthole].

Altough some snowshooes have aggressive cleats, they don't work anywhere as well as crampons.

IMO if you need crampons then you need an ice axe. And you need to know how to use the axe properly to arrest your slide. Which means learning it from someone.

So, are you crossing any icy terrain where a slope of more than 10 degrees ? [not sure if that is too conservative a number, bascially a slope where if you fall you will slide] If so, bring crampons.

Also if you are breaking trail in deep snow, you will want a BIG snowshoes. In New England, on broken out trails I use a 8x25s. On the western high plains, I can easily imagine the need for 10x36s.

[Feral Bill]

Also if you are breaking trail in deep snow, you will want a BIG snowshoes. In New England, on broken out trails I use a 8x25s. On the western high plains, I can easily imagine the need for 10x36s.

If you are breaking trail on snowshoes, you won't get far without a couple more people to share the joy. On a tough day, you could make less than 1 MPH even with a small group, and exhaust yourselves doing it. As suggested above, do take a course.

[Snowleopard]

I misread your post as hiking all of the CDT in Wyoming and Montana in winter. If you're only doing part, people with local knowledge can might be able to point you to trails with minimal avalanche danger where you won't need crampons or ice axe.

Get a bunch of experience in the Adirondacks first.

[djcoin]

Sorry for the confusion. What I meant by doing part of the CDT in winter was I'm going to start the CDT late. Probably in july/august, meaning I will probably hit snow by the time I reach wyoming at some point. So what I am to get out of all this is that I should bring both crampons and snowshoes and the crampons I linked aren't real crampons? Also what can paid training courses offer me that I can't learn from books and online guides mixed with months of personal trial and error?

[Timinator]

Sorry for the confusion, what I meant by doing part of the cdt is that I will be starting late probably in july/august northbound so I should be hitting snow sometime in wyoming.
So what I am to take from all this is that I should bring crampons and snowshoes? And the crampons I listed aren't real crampons? What can paid training courses do for me that books/internet guides and a few months of trial and error can't?

[Feral Bill]

[QUOTE=What can paid training courses do for me that books/internet guides and a few months of trial and error can't?[/QUOTE] Actual experience in a safe, controlled environment. Could be a life saver.

[Timinator]

Hmmm, I think I will skip the paid courses as I'm tight on money as it is, even if it is recommended. I will probably be training on the AT during winter which shouldn't be too dangerous and at the same time have the right environments I need to learn. I don't live too far from the AT.

[leaftye]

A course will have others around to assist you if you get hurt or require rescue.

You can hurt yourself badly with crampons without falling or sliding. Improper use of crampons can turn a mild slide into a disaster.

I don't think a course is required, but at the least I highly recommend getting your experience with a group in an area where it'd be easy to get rescued from.

[Timinator]

I'd be all about it but not only can I not afford it, there also aren't any such courses near me that I'm aware of. $250+ is just way out of my realistic money range without compromising on something important.

[Mags]

I'd be all about it but not only can I not afford it, there also aren't any such courses near me that I'm aware of. $250+ is just way out of my realistic money range without compromising on something important.

Compromising on your safety before heading to the Rockies in winter is not the best idea.

Many local outdoor groups have experienced people who organize winter backpacks aimed towards beginners. Map and compass lessons and so on. All for little or no money. Plus you'll make some good friends in the process.

Better than freezing your tookus off somewhere in Montana.

[Timinator]

I'll look around but if it's anything more than free I'll probably have to pass. I'm on an air tight budget this year if I hope to do the CDT at all. So back to my original question, I should carry both crampons and snow shoes then? Was hoping that wouldn't be the answer, not looking forward to that extra weight. Are the choices I picked out good ones? I noticed someone said my crampons might not be good for out west but REI website says 10 point steel crampons are good for general mountaineering.

[leaftye]

I don't think you should carry crampons out there by yourself until you know from experience that you can use them safely.

[Timinator]

I think we should step away from the "get experience" thing now, thanks for you're concern but I really just want to get my question answered. I'll deal with getting the proper experience in my own time in my own way.

[colorado_rob]

Crampons are pretty useless in the "early " snows of November/December as it's very powdery that time of year and crampons don't have anything to bite into. Many years out here you won't have enough snow to worry about flotation until later, but some years you'd absolutely need snow shoes. No way to tell before hand. I recommend MSR Lightning Ascent shoes, or just the Evo ascents. Hey! that's the link you have, good choice. Those crampons look decent, not too technical, fairly light, not a bad choice. I use BD contact Strap crampons, look fairly similar. Again though, not much use for crampons until the snow hardens a bit. You might consider Katoola Micro spikes as an alternative. Lighter, slip on instantly, cheap. they do occasionally break, bring a short piece of bailing wire to repair in the field if you use them.

[Timinator]

Thank you rob you are awesome. I'm just curious if the Evo ascents can actually act as crampons since everyone seems to rave about their traction and the bottoms look a like super crampon.

[colorado_rob]

I'm just curious if the Evo ascents can actually act as crampons since everyone seems to rave about their traction and the bottoms look a like super crampon. Yep, they work great. MSR snowshoes are by far the most common her in CO, for that very reason. Excellent on side-hills especially, complex fall lines, etc. Not the best floaters though. Really deep stuff and they won't hold you on the surace as well as the big, clunky shoes. you can buy extra "tails" for your MSR's that extend their length and make you float slightly better. I bought them for mine, used them once in maybe 5 years. I'd sell you my tails except mine are for the Denali model, I don't think they would fit.

[Timinator]

Yeah I intend to buy the tails just in case. Thanks for the input, at least now I won't have to worry about buying and lugging around crampons. Thanks a lot.

[Zippy Morocco]

I'm a Montana local. Snow starts to become permanent here in October. I imagine you will be rerouting some and will find snow shoes to be helpful. That early in the winter you should probably avoid the areas where crampons would be used due to the snow being unsteady. If at all possible flip to Glacier Park then hike south. Glacier is serious terrain and can be dangerous in the best conditions. I have done some winter snow shoeing in Glacier, it is beautiful but I stayed pretty low. Good luck!

[Tom Murphy]

I'm just curious if the Evo ascents can actually act as crampons since everyone seems to rave about their traction and the bottoms look a like super crampon.

It depends.

Again crampons are the right tool for icy slopes where a fall or a fall/slide will injury you [exposure].

I have used my snowshoes on slopes by kick-stepping and going straight up. But if the ice/snow does allow that, then crampons are good to have.

Traversing [sidehilling] an icy slope with snowshoes is a lot more difficult but sometimes you can do it if the conditions are right.

I typically avoid terrain that will require crampons and an axe. Is that a possibility? Just find a safer route and go around the dangerous terrain?

[mudhead]

I think we should step away from the "get experience" thing now, thanks for you're concern but I really just want to get my question answered. I'll deal with getting the proper experience in my own time in my own way.


One big benefit of getting the experience is the discovery of what gear you need for a particular situation.

That includes sock type...

[Mags]

I know you said zip it on the experience issue, but every year people with no experience make bold claims.

The difference vs an ambitious speed hike is that winter, with possible avy conditions, is not a good time to experiment.

Good luck...and please be safe.

[10-K]

I know you said zip it on the experience issue, but every year people with no experience make bold claims.

The difference vs an ambitious speed hike is that winter, with possible avy conditions, is not a good time to experiment.

Good luck...and please be safe.

Bears repeating.....

[BrianLe]

Okay, so if I understand correctly you plan to start somewhere near the southern end of Wyoming in July/August and hike north. So the first snow you'll hit will be, I guess, going into the Winds.

I wouldn't bring snowshoes. Again, consolidated old snow is different than fresh snow. But depending on the year, you likely will have to deal with snow, and perhaps high creek crossings. In fact, creek crossings could be the bigger risk/hassle. I personally hiked SOBO, so it was mid-August by the time I got into the winds. Snow was not an issue; there were patches, but not a problem then. OTOH, talking to NOBOs who hit the winds in July it sounded pretty tough.

Given the experience level you're talking about, I suggest you incline your trip to start in later July rather than early July --- or even early August. I'd bring microspikes, perhaps mail them to Atlantic City or South Pass City.
Note that if you're starting in southern WY, you'll have some waterless stretches to deal with, or alternatively some of the nastiest cow water I've had to deal with. It's not hard to do 30's from source to source in the Great Basin area when you're in shape, but that's not going to be practical just starting out. And I wonder if you might get particular feet issues (blisters) from starting out in the no-shade, flat, endless dirt road stretches north of Rawlins? Nothing that can't be dealt with, just FYI on that.

[Tom Murphy]

Again, consolidated old snow is different than fresh snow.

A fresh snow in colder condition [say beolw 25 degF] will be powdery and you need a snowshoe with a large surface area to avoid postholing.

Towards the end of the winter, the snow has gone through a few thaw/freeze cycles and the snow is crunchy and can bear some weight. Hiking on consoldiated snow with the right-size snowshoes is amazing because you are barely sinking in at all and the walking on top of the snow eliminates the roots, rocks, hobblebrush, etc [think Legolas]

Towards the end of the winter, the snow really starts to melt and becomes rotten and the water crossings become more interesting. blah ! At that point, I either head farther north (Maine) or start hiking down south (Conn)

[colorado_rob]

Yeah I intend to buy the tails just in case. Thanks for the input, at least now I won't have to worry about buying and lugging around crampons. Thanks a lot. I really would consider looking into those Katoola Microspkes I mentioned, and was mentioned again above. I think they are only a pound, and $60. Those with your Evo ascents and you can cover a lot of varying snowy terrain. For example, wearing snowshoes in mixed rock/ice/snow is a pain and sometimes uncomfortable, and microspikes many times fit this terrain perfectly. I've found microspikes to be suitable for up to about 25-30 degree slopes (pretty steep), above that it's crampons and ice axe all the way. In fact, any slope where crampons are needed, an ice axe (and knowledge on how to use it) is as well IMHO. But I doubt you'll have this technical of terrain. Grab a pair and play around with them this Winter in NY.

http://www.rei.com/product/774966/kahtoola-microspikes-traction-system?cm_mmc=cse_shopping-_-datafeed-_-product-_-774966&mr:referralID=830bce5f-f1ff-11e1-97b3-001b2166becc

[BFI]

Hmmm, I think I will skip the paid courses as I'm tight on money as it is, even if it is recommended. I will probably be training on the AT during winter which shouldn't be too dangerous and at the same time have the right environments I need to learn. I don't live too far from the AT.

What's your life Worth... you asked for advise and you've got the best answers a person could possibly get... You have NO experience and those that have answered have years of experience, learn from it. The AT is not the CDT. Late August you can get snow and rain mixed and that alone is a death sentence if you are not propared properly. Good Luck and take a winter hiking course.

[Rasty]

What's your life Worth... you asked for advise and you've got the best answers a person could possibly get... You have NO experience and those that have answered have years of experience, learn from it. The AT is not the CDT. Late August you can get snow and rain mixed and that alone is a death sentence if you are not propared properly. Good Luck and take a winter hiking course.

What you say is true. Timinator, you received advise from BrianLe, MAGS and 10K (Sorry I'm not familiar with the others hiking resume) who are three seriously experienced hikers. Listen carefully to what their advise is on this. There is a few places where mistakes can be costly and the CDT in winter is one of them.

[Timinator]

I appreciate all the advice. Sorry it if sounded like I was ignoring your advice but I wasn't, I know winter hiking is a serious issue and I intend to be prepared when I do it. I just wanted my original question to be answered first :P.

[Timinator]

In response to brians post I'm not starting the cdt in Wyoming. I'm simply doing a normal CDT run northbound. But I will be starting in New Mexico in july/august because my schedule doesn't allow sooner, and I have no desire to go southbound. As to the "is my life worth it?" comment. I guess this might be hard to understand if you're not the same way but I guess you can say one of my motto's is "live to die another day" I'm willing to take a little risk, I'm gunna die anyway right? I'm still thinking about buying micro spikes as well but I'm really dreading the extra weight, especially if my snowshoes can serve the purpose, I guess I'll have to find out this winter.

[Snowleopard]

Get the Hillsound Pro trail crampon rather than the Kahtoola microspikes. They are considerably more secure and only a little bit heavier and couple of dollars more. I love my microspikes, but last winter was so icy here that they weren't great when there was a little bit of a slope and my Camp Magix (like the Hillsound) were much better. Whether you'll need these, real crampons or none, or snowshoes, I'll leave to people more familiar with early winter experience in that region.

I would encourage you to contact people in the NYC AMC chapter and ask if there are free or cheap winter courses. I know the Boston AMC chapter has courses that are almost free (maybe $20 for a 5 week course).

[Timinator]

Yeah I'll look around. I guess I can ride out a state or two if I can find one that is cheap enough. I'm going to be putting my bank through the ringer this year so it's gunna have to be cheap if I want room to update my gear for the trip.

[BFI]

www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Footwear/TractionDevices/PRD~5017-316/kahtoola-microspikes-traction-device.jsp (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Footwear/TractionDevices/PRD~5017-316/kahtoola-microspikes-traction-device.jsp) these are not Crampons but will due a good job on slippery iced surfaces. Keep your feet dry, wet feet in below zero weather is not a pleasant experience.

[Timinator]

I looked at that boston amc thing and it seemed good until I saw that it was a bunch of auditorium lectures with some trips thrown in over the course of 2 months. Are there any programs in new england that are all in one go instead of split up, I can't exactly ride on over to boston every week or so.

[Snowleopard]

The Boston or NH chapter courses are good but aren't practical for someone living in NY. Where in NY are you, NYC?
Check out the NY/NJ/ or Mohawk/Hudson, etc chapters of AMC. http://www.outdoors.org/chapters/index.cfm Also, check out their trips. Winter trips and chapter courses probably aren't advertised yet, but any chapter contact person can probably put you in touch with someone who knows what will be happening in winter. Some of the trip leaders are very knowledgeable and could teach all of us a lot.
The weekend or all in one go AMC courses are usually at Pinkham Notch, NH, and are not real cheap (you usually end up having to stay at Pinkham Notch).

[BrianLe]

"I'm simply doing a normal CDT run northbound. But I will be starting in New Mexico in july/august because my schedule doesn't allow sooner, and I have no desire to go southbound."

Okay, this is clear. In which case I suggest that you re-think and go SOBO instead of NOBO. If you think there's any chance of doing a complete thru-hike, then I would far rather be walking into New Mexico in the dead of winter rather than Montana, and I'd just as soon not be walking through New Mexico in July/August.

OTOH, the highest elevations are in Colorado, and particularly in southern Colorado, so --- you're just screwed either way.

What I really suggest is that if you're firm on doing the CDT as your first long distance trip (which I don't recommend even without doing so in the winter), then do it in two or more pieces. I.e., hike a couple of states this year, then hike the other two next year, something like that. For me starting in early/mid-June last year going SOBO (it was a somewhat high snow year) was plenty crazy-dangerous as it was, and NOBOs I talked to ran into some serious fecal matter as well. My hiking partner almost died or at least could so easily have been seriously injured just our second day out (high creek crossing). We misjudged how tough going it would be in the Bob with snow and high creek crossings and so ran too low on food to keep going (had to do a somewhat dangerous bailout and road walk). Then getting out of southern Colorado I was smacked pretty hard by winter arriving all too suddenly in early October.
Even doing a complete thru-hike in a normal year, you really want to have some solid mountaineering experience, and especially so if doing it all solo.

My suggestion: plan to go south from the Canadian Border in July/August and walk as far as you safely and sanely can, perhaps as far as partway into Colorado, or stop somewhere like Rawlins WY. Then come back and do the rest another year.

[Timinator]

Thanks for the advice brian but I'm kind of stuck on northbound. Honestly I'm not hardcore devoted on completing a thru-hike I just wana "do" it, if you know what I mean. If something happens and I have to bail I will, but I'll push on otherwise. I agree with the mountaineering experience thing, I'm going to try and get as much experience as I can even if it means resorting to trail and error solo experience on the winter AT.

[BrianLe]

Okay, then start in July rather than August, plan to do some night hiking when it's too hot in NM, and get your butt into and through Colorado in a timely manner. Southern WY shouldn't be a problem. What gets risky is when you get into the Wind River range. Depends on what kind of pace you sustain, but a significant snow dump in there could get interesting (and in a not-so-good way). Then as the season advances from there it's just an increasing risk factor depending on what the storms dump on you and how quickly a given weather pattern dumps it on you. I personally wouldn't be hiking the Bob or Glacier NP in November or December, but best of luck with whatever you end up doing. If you can keep your pace up, you hopefully won't have to deal with (much) snow falling until perhaps the Winds.

[Timinator]

Sounds good, thanks for the advice. I can probably leave in early july if everything goes according to plan.

[Timinator]

Quick question. Is it a good idea to bring a snow shoe repair kit? I seems snow shoes typically aren't designed for long distance travel and sometimes break out there. I don't want the extra weight but being stranded sounds worse.

[leaftye]

Are you going to use gaiters? Even if you don't need them to keep snow out of your footwear, they help prevent snags if you decide to use crampons. Yeah, I made that stupid mistake. I watched the videos, read the book, visited lots of websites. Nothing was said about gaiters in this regard. I figured I wouldn't need them on hard spring snow, and was wrong. Fortunately the only damage was to a new pair of expensive pants and my pride.

[Timinator]

I have a good pair of hardshell pants that have reinforced material on the "crampon" part of the legs to prevent that from happening. But yeah..back to that repair kit question moontrail says the shipping weight is 6oz http://www.moontrail.com/msr-snowshoe-kit.php so its probably like 5-4oz. Would you take it?

[Lone Wolf]

get you one of these
http://www.pariconsleds.com/sleds/23-638-winter-racer

[Timinator]

Lol you serious or no?

[Timinator]

Oh never mind I thought that was a pack sled, good one.

[Lone Wolf]

Lol you serious or no?

just bepn' funny :)

[Lone Wolf]

bein'.........

[bearcreek]

Have you considered hiking SOBO? Southern NM is insufferably hot in July, and I doubt that you will be allowed to hike across Glacier in December or January. The actual CDT in CO is, IMO, largely not doable in a normal winter because of extreme avalanche danger. However, as Mags suggested you could snowshoe or XC ski the Great Divide bike route which is almost entirely on forest service roads, many of which get packed by snowmobile traffic.

[Slo-go'en]

However, as Mags suggested you could snowshoe or XC ski the Great Divide bike route which is almost entirely on forest service roads, many of which get packed by snowmobile traffic.

That sounds like the only practical way to travel any distance and there would be at least a chance of getting someone to bring in supplies by snowmobile. Trying to travel the actual CDT route in the winter is beyond crazy, it would be insane.

I could see going out there for a few days or a week in a reasonably accessable area to play in the snow, but to do any long distance traveling would be a very difficult feat to pull off.

Terminator - I would suggest you first go hike some of the CDT in each of the three states it crosses during the summer to get an idea of what you'd be getting into. Then go back in the winter and see what those areas are like then.

All in all, I don't see how a winter trip of this magnitued would be possible without a support team and a whole lot of money. Good luck.

[Timinator]

To me the cdt starts in new mexico and ends in montana. Anything between that is considered the "trail" to me (as long as its not civilization or 100% road walking). I'm fine with doing the bike route or any alternative routes that aren't on the official trail if its necessary. Like I said earlier I'll make a thread to devise how to go about it as soon as I get back home from my uncles house and compile all my maps into my computer.

[Timinator]

I know this is not the thread to ask this (I'm derailing my own thread >.>) but if I started in july and walked at the average pace northbound when do you expect I would be hitting winter anyway? I would guess the middle of CO but I'm not sure when it starts in the south.

[10-K]

I am not one to judge but is I read through these threads about hiking the CDT I feel like I just keep seeing shortcut after shortcut being taken.

Again not judging anyone, just my observation. Be careful out there, the trail isn't going anywhere.

[Timinator]

What do you mean by shortcut?

[mudhead]

He means you may find an old abandoned school bus and sleep in it.

[10-K]

Well I think it could best be summed up in terms of budget as the subject of not having enough money or needing it to be as cheap as possible is a major driver in your decision-making.

I think having enough or even too much data about this trail trumps the couple of hundred bucks that it might cost - for one example.

Anyway I'm not the hiker police and wish you the best of luck just be careful.

[10-K]

into the wild with mudhead!

I like it:)

[Timinator]

Well my budget is tight because I'm replacing some of my gear with some really high end stuff (and sleeping bags which just happen to cost a fortune)/ I will have about 500-600ish dollars to spend per month when I'm actually out there.

[handlebar]

Sorry for the confusion. What I meant by doing part of the CDT in winter was I'm going to start the CDT late. Probably in july/august, meaning I will probably hit snow by the time I reach wyoming at some point.

Why not just do the CDT in two "chunks". While I set out to thruhike, due to a variety of reasons, I wound up hiking it in 3 chunks: Mex to CO14 near Steamboat Springs (Apr-Jul 2010) leaving due to excessive weight loss, giardiasis, and family commitments; CO14-Helena MT (less Buffalo Pass to Rawlins, WY skipped due to 10' snow pack), Jul 5-Sep6, 2011, again leaving due to family commitment; Rawlins WY to Buffalo Pass then Helena to Chief Mtn, July 28-Sep 29, 2012.

If you're planning a nobo, I'm not sure what the weather will be like in NM in Jul. Certainly it will be very hot, and water sources may be an issue. I'd consider starting at Steamboat Springs around July 1 and hiking nobo to Canada. You should reach there in early Sep. You might even be able to hook up with some other nobos. Then you could hike sobo from Steamboat to Mex if you want to finish within one year. That would be iffy, however, with a certainty of early snow in CO and even NM during Sep and Oct.

I suggest Steamboat, because it's relatively easy (though pricey) to get from Chief Mtn or Waterton back down to Steamboat (East side shuttle ($50 OR $40), train westbound to Whitefish MT, then bus via Salt Lake City to Steamboat), and, it's relatively easy to get to Steamboat from Denver airport. (There is a shuttle service from the airport and, I believe, Greyhound has a run that goes from downtown Denver to Salt Lake City via Steamboat.) You could modify this by hiking from Rawlins nobo as Rawlins is also easy to get to via Greyhound.

If you take this flip-flop then you won't need either snowshoes or microspikes or crampons for WY or MT. You might need something for the sobo section from Steamboat to Mex, and there's always a risk of early snowstorms in Sep and Oct in both states. Plus, you will drop several hundreds of dollars on transport.

If you want more info on bus/train transport, PM me.

[SunnyWalker]

I am planning (hoping to go NB) on purchasing snowshoes and have them waiting for me via a maildrop. Crampons though, always got by without them by just waiting on the sun and not starting too early in the morning. So I am not planning on crampons.

[SunnyWalker]

snowshoes, crampons . . . then there is microspikes!!