Virginia in the "winter"

[jljmonky]

I am going to be in Ft. Lee for an all expense government provided 4 1/2 month vacation from 1 OCT through mid February... I should be free most weekends and see this as a prime time to weekend hike a TON! I will have access to my complete military sleep system but generally, what I intend to use is a 50 degree bag, a Kifaru Woobie and a goretex bivy in the cold over a z-lite, the warmer nights it is more of a grand trunk ultralight and Kifaru Para Tarp and woobie. I haven't done a bunch of cold weather camping outside of military stuff where we carry all the weight in the world and still freeze at night, I will also most likely have a small packable wood stove similar to the Kifaru design but home built to save cash...

I have plenty of packable fleece, wool and primaloft as well as good waterproof light layers and realize calorie burn will be greater but on 2-3 day hikes I can suck that up, I also have a Goal Zero Nomad and battery pack to keep the phone running for emergencies on the trail...

Other than keeping warm and dry, what other factors am I not considering?

[Berserker]

Just depends on how the winter goes, which we won't know until we get there. Last winter was very mild, and you probably could have gotten away with what you are proposing for gear on several of the weekends during that winter. The one before that (2010/2011) was cooler but still not too bad. I think it only snowed a few times without much accumulation. The winter prior to those two (2009/2010) was significantly different where it snowed a good bit and got really cold (20s and 30s, which is really cold for VA) for about a month.

Usually no matter what happens during any given winter we'll probably get a nice weekend here and there (highs in the 50s to 60s).

[scree]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - we dodged a bullet last winter and I'll bet you this year is going to a rough winter. Freezing rain and ice are common here so come prepared for it. I would also bring a balaclava or other face cover because things can get very windy here in the winter.

[Creek Dancer]

A 50 degree bag in the winter in Virginia is not going to be sufficient, in my opinion. Scree is correct. Last winter was mild. I have often slept outdoors in the mountains of Virginia when the temps got down to the teens.

[jljmonky]

the 50 degree bag is only part... the Kifaru Woobie being part two and the goretex bag being part three... part four, in extreme need, is a wood stove, in the tent for heat...

I am trying to avoid 9 lbs of military sleep system but am short on $ to buy a good, light 15 degree or 0 degree bag... A Kifaru slick 0 degree bag is on the list for future trips, but just not in the cards right now.

[Moose2001]

in extreme need, is a wood stove, in the tent for heat...

A wood stove in the tent for heat! Now there's a good way to die! Either carbon monoxide or catching the tent on fire!

[mad4scrapping]

Virginia is a wonderful place to hike! You will love it. The Woobie looks like it might suffice with a 50 degree bag; otherwise I have to agree with the others and say you will need a warmer bag. I usually carry a 20 degree bag in the winter (I love to backpack in the winter!)

[Rain Man]

In his thru-hike account published in Volume One of "Hiking the Appalachian Trail" by Rodale Press, Jim Shattuck writes of spending a night on Sinking Creek Mountain in Virginia, when the temperature at nearby Mountain Lake registered minus-27 degrees below zero.

That was March 1, 1967. Perhaps needless to say, he spent the entire night in prayer.

Rain:sunMan

.

[FarmerChef]

I'm not sure if you're intending to hang in your bivy or pitch it over you with the z-lite resting on the ground. If you are hanging (not that I'm an expert in this) it would seem you might want a bit more insulation than what your bringing. If you're on the ground you can probably get away with that but you might be chilly if the temps dip below 30.

On my coldest night of hiking yet, I was in Shenandoah National Park last November. We slept in a shelter (1st bad move) on z-rests and my wife and I shared a 60 degree flannel sleeping bag unfolded like a blanket with another, thicker one on top. Each of us had a silk liner and every stitch of clothing on including fleece top and bottom, long underwear top and bottom, gloves and wool hat. I still woke up shivering a few times that night and neither of us slept much. The temp on the mini therm registered 25 degrees. Now we zip the bags together and pitch in our tarp if it's going to get that cold. We're cold but much more comfortable. New homemade climashield blankets should get us good down to about 20, safe but uncomfortable at 10-15.

Temps in VA are on average in the mid 30s to upper 40s/low 50s during the day in say, Jan/Feb with lows at night in the 20s to 30s. That's in the valleys. The AT and many shelters are at elevation on top of ridges or down slightly in side valleys where cold air tends to sink and/or "pond." Expect lows there to be at least 5 to 10 degrees colder than the forecast. If you'll be hiking in Shenandoah National Park, you can get a weather forecast for that area (http://www.nws.noaa.gov/view/validProds.php?prod=rec&node=klwx) from NOAA/NWS. It's at 2000 feet elevation.

I agree with others (though I've toyed with the idea myself) that the wood stove sounds pretty dangerous. I heat with wood in the winter but I run a CO detector just in case. In a tent at night, you just wouldn't wake up to know there was something wrong. Plus certain tent materials are extremely flammable, dumping molten tent parts on you as they burn. Perhaps you have more experience with this from your background.

Also, we tend to get a good bit of rain, much more so than snow. When hiking I'd much rather be in a blizzard then a rainstorm in January. Make sure you bring solid rain gear with you. That can be as simple as a disposable poncho, just bring two in case you damage the first (easy to do) and you aren't near shelter or a road/town. Of course, if you're just going on weekends, you'll probably know if it's going to rain ahead of time and can assess then. We don't tend to get unexpected rain showers that time of year.

Winter hiking has some of the best views of the year. Have fun on your hikes!

[Lyle]

In over thirty years of backpacking, two of the worst blizzards I've been out during have been in Virginia. Down south on Whitetop MTN in April and in SNP in November. Temps well below zero, and snow and ice measured in feet, not inches.

I have no idea what a Woobie is, but doubt it will add enough warmth to a 50 degree bag to be adequate. Same token, a single z-lite pad will not be adequate. Add at least a Wally World blue pad if you want to stay warm.

[Cookerhiker]

While your question involved night temps and sleeping options, I advise you to also ascertain trail conditions beforehand. I've hiked in VA in thigh-high snow (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=89307) involving postholing which wasn't too bad except you don't make the mileage you planned. But more problematic is ice; once I visited the section I maintained in SNP during the winter when the Trail and the (closed) Skyline Drive were solid ice. I was alone - that was foolish. Even in SNP, there are few others out there; a fall on the ice or other mishap could have serious consequences.

[johnnybgood]

During the snowy winter of 2009/10 Shenandoah Nat'l Park remained under a snow pack for much of the winter. Even when the valley below see's rain the 2,500 plus elevation in SNP causes a wide variety of weather.
At lower elevations one must be aware of ice and freezing rain on the trail, especially in area's that receive minimal sun during the day. Like mentioned above,refreezing of water on the trail can cause a quick slip and dire circumstances if alone and unable to hike on.

[Majortrauma]

Ditto what Creek Dancer said and scree said. Been living here since 1997 and "ain't no telling what you'll get" but a 50 bag is a bad idea. As my Grampa used to say, in preparation for deer hunting "You can't take off what ya' don't got on."

[jljmonky]

Man... I hope not to offend, but some of you need to get out of the hiking world and see what else is out there. The wood stove is a 100% safe and viable option. There are many being made and tents designed for them. The woobie is like a military poncho liner only much warmer, imagine quilt... Kifaru equipment is designed for military and hunting use. Patrick Smith (of mountainsmith fame) started the company after selling mountainsmith. The packs are bombproof but may be heavy by many of your standards and the shelters probably spurned the shangri la's and such in tipi design.

All that being said, thank you all very much for the guidance and first hand accounts, that sort of thing is exactly what I was looking for! Hopefully I can pick up their (again Kifaru, if you get into much of their stuff you will be addicted) 0 degree slick bag, at 2lb 15 oz... that should take care if all problems but funding that purchase between now and departure is still a challenge.

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[scree]

Yeah, Kifaru stuff is great but you'll find that most people in this community tend not to consider any hunting, duty, or tactical gear, usually in the interest of trading weight for what you and I would consider durability. I hike primarily with an Eberlestock pack and own some other Kifaru gear, including packs. A lot of this stuff isn't going to have any name recognition in the hiking community because it isn't really marketed at hikers. Unless it's ultralight or some other related buzzword it won't get much attention. Personally, I'd rather have something bomb proof than a pound lighter if I'm going to be scraping it against rocks and trees all day.

You'll probably be fine with what you've got, just plan for the weather being worse than you'd expect and pack a good knife and fire kit so you can keep warm if it comes to that.

[jljmonky]

And Scree understands... knife, blind horse nessmuk (just came in two days ago)... fire kit, multiple ferro rods (pack and, sheath, around my neck) and mag bars along with vasaline, cotton and dryer lint tucked in with fatwood in a pelican case... oh, and 2 Bic lighters. Yes, my pack may weigh more, but I log the miles and I sleep comfortably.

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[Lyle]

Well if you and Scree are so much smarter then us dumb hikers, why'd you bother asking our opinion. Could have gotten a weather report off the web.

[scree]

Your whole fire kit can squeeze into a tin. Some of the Bushcraft forums (e.g., Bushcraft USA) will give you solid ideas including field tests and reports. It's not as much about the stuff you carry but the stuff you know (and practice a lot). Secondary point is since this is largely a long distance backpacking oriented forum you'll get different opinions than you would on another site - are you really out for a long haul or are you going out for a week or so? I don't care much about weight on a two week hike but when I finally get time off for a full thru hike I might try to trim weight. Winter hiking / camping isn't something I'd be worried about trimming weight on since priority one is to not freeze to a rock.

[vamelungeon]

I've lived in Southwest Virginia most of my life, except for military service, and I can tell you that our winters can be VERY unpredictable, and have wide temperature swings in short periods of time. Best to check the forecasts before you go out but don't put 100% faith in them.

[HikerMom58]

Oh yeah, you will love hiking in VA. Sounds like you are going to be well prepared for hiking in the winter. If you want a good hot southern meal, don't forget about stopping by the Homeplace in Catawba, VA. Good luck to you and Happy Hiking!!

[Moose2001]

Well if you and Scree are so much smarter then us dumb hikers, why'd you bother asking our opinion. Could have gotten a weather report off the web.

Hmmm....you wanted hiking advice and then give us a hard time when you get that advice? Why did you ask?

I would strongly suggest to you to do some research in using a stove, any stove, inside a tent. Tent's designed to use a wood stove are usually a wall tent with a port to vent the stove through. Using any tent inside a back packing tent is a receipe for disaster. Be smart instead of stubborn and do some reading. Sucks to have volunteers carry you back to a trailhead because you were doing something dumb.

[jljmonky]

I have a tent designed by the manufacturer to use a wood stove. Same company can get you into an 8 man shelter with a stove and less than 11 lb... I am taking the advice, listening to those who aren't pigeon holed into the ultralight world...

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[Moose2001]

I have a tent designed by the manufacturer to use a wood stove. Same company can get you into an 8 man shelter with a stove and less than 11 lb... I am taking the advice, listening to those who aren't pigeon holed into the ultralight world...

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How heavy is that stove? Just curious. All of them I've seen are designed for horse packing.

[jljmonky]

Go to Kifaru.net and then google search for Ed T stoves... Kifaru are collapsible box type in stainless, I built one that is over sized and heavier steel than theirs, ir came in at 5 lb. Ed T uses titanium and they are barrel shaped, much lighter...

Kifaru has a line of tarps too

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[Creek Dancer]

A 5 pound stove! Wow, just wow. So are you camping or backpacking? What is your total pack weight with food and water?

[jljmonky]

Total weight with that stove comes in right at 40 lbs max depending on how many days worth of food I am hauling.

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[jljmonky]

The smallest and lightest of their shelter/stove combos is a solo shelter and stove at 3 lbs total weight. 2 lb 5 oz is the stove weight...

Safe warmth in your tent.

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