Down or not?

[Starchild]

What is your thoughts and experience on down (feathers) for cloths and sleeping bag for the thru hike? I am concerned about if they get wet.

I think I could make a much better case for a sleeping bag then a coat, but I see both as a risk and right now leaning to synthetics for both.

[Slo-go'en]

Either way, you don't want to get your bag wet, but down does take some extra care. You need to remember to air it out in the sun as often as possible and putting it in the dryer (low heat) once in a while helps too. Of course, this helps out a synthetic bag too.

I typically use a synthetic bag in the spring during the rainy season, then change to light down bag in the summer.

[Drybones]

If you're going out for a few days the synthetic is okay, if you're going on a long walk you want the down to save weight and space, as well as keep you warm, use a good waterproof compression sack to keep it dry, air it out whenever possible. Same for the jacket.

[10-K]

If you can only get one get down.

You'll likely regret it if you don't.. Maybe not, but probably. Synthetics weigh more and take up more room in your pack.

If you've ever tried to wash a down sleeping bag you would know that soaking one is not as easy as it looks. They are not fragile - just use common sense.

[coach lou]

If you can only get one get down.

You'll likely regret it if you don't.. Maybe not, but probably. Synthetics weigh more and take up more room in your pack.

If you've ever tried to wash a down sleeping bag you would know that soaking one is not as easy as it looks. They are not fragile - just use common sense.

in a neighboring town, we have dry cleaners that cleans Down articles. Every few years I take my bag in. Well worth the price, not to mess it up.

[Thirsty DPD]

I use down bag, but do not use down clothing. My bag is not subjected directly to rain & moisture, all my clothing will be.

[Sugarfoot]

I have always used down sleeping bags, kept in a roll-top bag when not in use. I've never had a problem that a day of sunshine hasn't solved. The lightest roll-top bags I've found are from zpacks.com, made of Cuben Cloth. In cold weather, I bring a down jacket. It has never been cold enough to hike in, but it feels great in camp and makes a great pillow at night, in a stuff sack. I also keep it in a roll-top bag. I assume that everything in my pack will get wet, so everything is in a water-resistant stuff sack. On the other hand, if your tent allows wind-blown rain to come in or has major condensate problems, stay with a synthetic. Or change tents.

[yellowsirocco]

down bag, synthetic jacket. one of each. if everything gets wet you are not completely screwed.

[garlic08]

down bag, synthetic jacket. one of each. if everything gets wet you are not completely screwed.


Now that's smart, and also happens to be the way I do it though I never quite thought of it that way.

Since I started using down bags, and I kicked myself for waiting so long, I learned that it takes four full days and nights of heavy rain to affect the down bag. As said above, one good day of sunshine brings it back to new, or a few quarters in a dryer. I've always been able to get to one or the other within four days, even in record rain on the PCT in Washington State.

The only down garment I've ever carried is a down vest, only used in cold dry conditions for camping, never while hiking or skiing.

[Charlied]

I can be of service in Giles County

[Wise Old Owl]

Yellowsirocco has a great answer! how about yanking the sleeping bag compressor sack and use a
Exped Waterproof Compression Bag

[kayak karl]

my quilts are all down and i got a down beanie. i'm getting down sleeves for my wearable quilt and will us like socks at night.

[Slo-go'en]

If you've ever tried to wash a down sleeping bag you would know that soaking one is not as easy as it looks. They are not fragile - just use common sense.

But if you do get it wet, (down) it takes forever to dry and getting the feathers to unclump can be a problem. When I tent, the foot of my bag often touches the side of tent and if it's raining, the foot of my bag gets wet. And no matter how hard I try to seam seal the tent, there is always a leak someplace in a heavy or prolong rain.

Since I often go to GA/NC to hike in the spring when it rains a lot and have to tent pretty much every night until the Smokies, this can be a problem. Hence I use the synthetic bag in the spring, which I can dry out with body heat if I have to.

So, the choice between down and synthetic isn't an easy one. Both have significant advantages and disadvantages.

[10-K]

Slo. It's an easy choice if you know which one you want to take. :).

I haven't used a synthetic bag since 2007 and have hiked in every kind of weather the southern Appalachians has and haven't got my down bag even close to being too wet to use.

As always around here there's not a ride or wrong answer. This is another one of those decisions involving a degree of risk Some people are more risk-averse than others, nothing wrong with that.

[OzJacko]

I've been cold in a bag - don't like it.
For me bag is down. (that's a period after it).
Everything else synthetics.
I just take great care that bag stays dry. I consider it a must have to hike, so if it got wet, I would head for town if I couldn't dry it.

[T-Rx]

I have never used anything but a down sleeping bag or quilt and I carry a down jacket for camp. I like the warmth to weight ratio of the down bag/quilt and I keep it in a separate garbage bag inside my pack to ensure it stays dry. Never had a problem. I don't hike in my down jacket but staying warm while hiking has not been an issue for me. But that down jacket is sure nice in camp on a cold night.

[Rain Man]

I have never carried a synthetic bag. They are heavy and bulky. My down bag has never, not once, gotten wet, unless you count heavy dew while cowboy camping, and that dried out quickly.

I have both down and synthetic vests and jackets and use both.

That's what I do, since you asked, but the rule is "Hike Your Own Hike," so you have to decide for yourself what works for you. There is no "right answer."

Rain:sunMan

.

[Flounder940]

Waterproof Down, for those just in case my sleeping bag gets wet scenarios: http://www.rei.com/search?query=Sierra+designs+driDown+bag

[Wise Old Owl]

in a neighboring town, we have dry cleaners that cleans Down articles. Every few years I take my bag in. Well worth the price, not to mess it up.

Yea but you do not dry clean down bags - ( I hope they are doing something different)

[RED-DOG]

No down if it gets wet its useless and it will get wet.

[coach lou]

Yea but you do not dry clean down bags - ( I hope they are doing something different)

I would imagine they don't smear chemicals all over it. This particular place is the only one around that i've found that would take my bag. It comes back clean and its' cover still repells water.

[Moose2001]

Some simple common sense is all it takes to prevent a down bag from getting wet. Store it in a OR bag and place the bag inside a garbage bag at the bottom of your pack. Sleeping in a shelter or tent prevents you from getting wet (at least soaked). It's not rocket science!

[Spirit Walker]

For the AT I used synthetic. For the western trails, down. On the AT, even when it's not raining, it's often humid. In a tent, condensation is a real issue. In the shelters, leaky roofs and fog will get you wet. Waterproof down bags tend to be heavier - and you sweat inside the bag because there is less breathability.

[Datto]

Here's what I'd experienced on my AT thru-hike.

I used a man-made fiber in my jacket (a Patagonia Puffball jacket I'd bought used from a guy at Penn State) and a down sleeping bag (a Feathered Friends 20*F sleeping bag).

The jacket and the sleeping bag were each fantastic.

The jacket I'd worn underneath my raingear and so it was wet much of the time in Georgia and in Maine. It still was warm as all get out and I have it today. Such a well built jacket.

The sleeping bag -- I would and have used down as the sleeping bag insulation beginning with my AT thru-hike and up to today. Reason: I can protect the sleeping bag but not the jacket from moisture.

The key takeaway is the jacket on an AT thru-hike is going to get wet. If you're using a man=made fiber in the jacket the insulation is likely to keep you warm.


Datto

[doritotex]

Some simple common sense is all it takes to prevent a down bag from getting wet. Store it in a OR bag and place the bag inside a garbage bag at the bottom of your pack. Sleeping in a shelter or tent prevents you from getting wet (at least soaked). It's not rocket science!I've gone to sleep in a shelter not expecting rain and I've awakened to a torential rain blowing sideways into the shelter. The bottom half of my bag was soaked. It might not be rocket science...maybe meteorology??!

[Drybones]

I've gone to sleep in a shelter not expecting rain and I've awakened to a torential rain blowing sideways into the shelter. The bottom half of my bag was soaked. It might not be rocket science...maybe meteorology??!

I've had that problem also. Set my tent up in the back of a deep shelter on the Pinhoti to let it dry out from the night before while I slept outside the tent. The tent woke me up banging against the shelter walls, it was floating around in the air. Grabbed my pad and bag to get into tent to hold it down so it didn't blow away. Before I could close the fly the tent was full of water from a driving horizonal rain. There were tornado warnings when I went out, maybe this should have been posted in the "dumbest things" thread.

[Drybones]

Most of the new down bags are treated to repel water. A salesman poured a cup of water on a bag where there were seams and let it set for the entire time I was in the store...didn't get wet...not waterproof tho.

[Aquonehostel]

I used a Golite 800 down quilt/bag, with pertex foot base, the bag never got wet inside a sea-to-summit stuff sack. Good idea; get rid of the straps and attach a silk liner, the liner like the straps will stop the quilt from slipping off the body creating cold spots, in winter use the bag and in summer flip it over and get into the silk liner, all will fit inside a 1 gallon ziplock bag. Enjoy your hike: http://www.backcountry.com/golite-ultralite-sleeping-bag-20-degree-down

[MuddyWaters]

Someone should tell the ducks and geese to stay out of the water! Their down might get wet and then they will freeze.

[Dodds1990]

You can buy a sleeping bag that uses DriDown feathers. I just bought one by Sierra Designs. Also Big Agnes just made one too which is an REI exclusive. Go check out the feathers for yourself, you might like what you see. Oh and Sierra Designs also makes 2 different down jackets with the same. DriDown feathers which are at REI as well.

[Feral Bill]

Decades of experience demonstrates that is entirely possible to keep a down bag dry, or at worst slightly damp, in the most hideous conditions. Site selection, an eye for weather, and a good stuff sack help a lot.

[m_factor]

Living in the northeast, I bought a synthetic bag for my first sleeping bag. After ten years when I realized my bag had never gotten wet, I switched to down. I've been very happy with down. Not only is it more comfortable, it's good for a much wider range of temperatures and has proven itself to be much more durable.

I do use a single-wall tent that can be prone to condensation in some circumstances. So, I have a down bag with a Pertex shell. The water resistance of the shell is just enough to keep moisture out of the down and yet it breathes well enough that I don't feel like I'm sleeping in a sauna.

I also have allergies but high quality down bags (800+ fill power) have so few feathers, they don't bother me. I figured that out after sleeping in shelters next to people with good down bags.

For clothing, I use a synthetic filled jacket. I'm one of those people that gets cold easily but then starts sweating just by looking at the next hill. I knew I would likely sweat into my jacket so I've been happy with my choice here, as well.

Someone mentioned a compression sack earlier in this thread. If you decide to go with down, you may want to leave the compression sack at home. As a matter of fact, using a stuff sack that's somewhat bigger than you might assume may provide long-term benefits. The less down is compressed, the longer it will last.

For those days when I have extra gear and/or food, I just push down on the stuffed sleeping bag sack and it compresses more making room for my extra stuff. But on those days when I'm almost out of food and/or it's summer and the rest of my gear doesn't fill my backpack, having the slightly larger stuff sack allows me to pack my sleeping bag without overly compressing it.

YMMV.

[Donde]

I did my thru with a synthetic (North Face Cat's Meow) , but have switched to down. Synthetics can be found a reasonable weights and are generally a good bit cheaper. Down requires a bit more care, and a bit more money. However the weight savings and when needed the ability to pack it down smaller are pretty sweet.
I did my thru with a still carry a 60G Primaloft jacket that I have been quite happy with. That and a polypro layer have kept me safe and cozy below freezing. I know plenty of people who carry down vest or jackets, and layer rain gear over. So as always HYOH YMMV.

[Spokes]

Another vote for down. Mine never once got wet. Used a trash compactor bag and stuffed it in. Say no to compression sacks-waste of money and pack space.

[Nooga]

I used down for my sleeping bag and jacket during my thru hike. Just be careful and when in town, let them air out on your bed / bunk. For me, down is the way to go!

[Wise Old Owl]

Most of the new down bags are treated to repel water. A salesman poured a cup of water on a bag where there were seams and let it set for the entire time I was in the store...didn't get wet...not waterproof tho.

The outside material is treated with a hydrostatic coatings to repel or bead up the water, I used to sell high end raincoats with it.
The new stuff is on the inside...

A Flood of Water-Repellent Down for Sleeping Bags

http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/e/a/0/1158816/image.jpg (http://www.trailspace.com/people/alicia/) by Alicia MacLeay (http://www.trailspace.com/people/alicia/)
July 24, 2012

Down that keeps you warm, even when wet? Outdoor enthusiasts and manufacturers took note when Brooks-Range (http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2012/01/26/brooks-range-downtec-mojave.html)and Sierra Designs (http://www.trailspace.com/blog/2012/01/24/sierra-designs-water-resistant-dridown.html) launched water-repellent down at last January's Outdoor Retailer trade show.
Now a flood of water-repellent insulation hits the outdoor market this fall and early next year, with DownTek, DriDown, and Q.Shield Down. All promise to repel water while maintaining down's high loft, insulation, and breathability, even when wet, thanks to nano polymer finishes applied to down plumes.

Someone should tell the ducks and geese to stay out of the water! Their down might get wet and then they will freeze.

Ducks preen the oil from their anal sacks and move the oil to other feathers - increasing their "water resistance"

[Wise Old Owl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19HZTdNPNPU&feature=player_embedded

Here is a good example.

[MuddyWaters]

dont be scared of down
buy HIGH QUALITY down items with water repellent shells
be careful with it, understand what causes condensation within the insulation, defend against those things
(dont breathe in it, put other insulation OVER it if needed, maintain ventillation, dont use under open sky, etc, use moisture barrier between body and bag if needed in cold humid conditions

throw it in a dryer every now and then on low and fluff it up
it will serve you very well for many yrs

[Lyle]

My Take:

Down for Sleeping bags - no reason for a sleeping bag to get so wet that it is seriously compromised, unless you are totally incompetent and inattentive.

Clothing:

Some down in winter/really cold for camp use, not for hiking.

Some synthetic (I like Primaloft) for hiking and as a back-up for the down in case I have a temporary case of incompetence or total inattentiveness. :)

[Lyle]

I've gone to sleep in a shelter not expecting rain and I've awakened to a torential rain blowing sideways into the shelter. The bottom half of my bag was soaked. It might not be rocket science...maybe meteorology??!

Sleep with your head to the opening, your face will be the first to get wet and wake you up so you can take appropriate measures. Also, it is less stinky, and easier to see what is making all that noise outside.

[Lyle]

One more advantage, the mice and rats tend to run along the walls of the shelter, so they run over your feet more often than over your face if your head is to the open side.