View Full Version : LT: Report and notes
Bailed from the LT last week just north of Killington. Alas, E2E was not be this time.
Notes and observations:
1) The LT is hard. It will beat and eat you every which way. Even the Cobble Hill Trail from Williamstown is 3.4 miles of warning.
2) Manchester Center is a neat hiker friendly town. At age 57, I picked up my first ever hitch ride into town. Took about 20 minutes, but I was in heaven cruising into town. BTW, the Rootville Trail down to the highway was the toughest 1.8 miles I ever walked. Rolling, slipping, steep gravel burned my feet into blister hell.
3) Manchester Center EMS folks were especially helpful, even lending us their Price Chopper store card - we got the discount prices, they got the miles. taxi shuttle back to trail was $15 with Leonard's. OtheRs charge more.
4) Stayed at Sutton's Place. Sleep was tough with round the clock curb, sidewalk, road and bridge work underway in town. Should be near done by now. When the coffee maker broke, the owner gave the shuttle driver money to get us coffee before we hit the trail.
5) Shelters. They were packed and mice, mice, mice. First night out by Goddard, we hung food and chipmunks still ate through pack and two days worth of food.
6) Crowds. OMG, all those college groups. We found the Williams College group near Goddard beyond LOUD and lacking all sense of trail etiquette. Who wants to pump water 10 feet downstream from where they were cleaning stuff?
7) The Inn at Long Trail is one true hiker oasis. Met great people, supplemented by great food and beer.
8) The GMC says the Whistle Stop Cafe is 0.5 miles from the LT. I think it is less. But what a GREAT breakfast and delightful crew. It's worth every step to visit.
9) This hike was a true learning experience for us - considering it, too, was my first extended hike. At 40 pounds, my pack proved too heavy. The ALPS Mountaineering pack was a total suck and won't be used again.
10) I love hammocking, but when nearby Danby registered 30 degrees, I was shivering. The chill ate through my 30-degree bag with half inch mat. I need to rethink that setup. I was warm in shelters with the mat and my Lafuma bag, tho.
11) I'm pleased and proud of what we did complete, but I gotta say the LT lacks instant gratification rewards. The views and vistas are minimal and I wanted more. A lot more.
12) Got back to Killington when we bailed and Everywhere Taxi shuttled us back to Williamstown for $250. That seemed steep, considering the driver was late, stopped for an errand and then gas and then missed the WIlliams Inn where we parked for $2 a day next to the police station.
13) Williamstown. Booked first night at the Williamstown Motel. Ugh! At $129- plus, the breakfast has got to be better than mushy apples and yucky mini muffins. BTW, the Vietnamese place in town was amazing for lunch on our way home. Go, pho, go!
14) GMC map. Good, but it left something to be desired. It lacked lots of features - ski trails, for example. It was NOT a reliable water guide.
15) Knee joint reminders. For those NOBO, the trek down to Rt. 9 is a knee burner. Up from Clarendon Gorge is a total assault on legs and lungs.
16) Did a I prepare enough? Yup. Lost 14 pounds in prep before trail and lost just two pounds on trail.
17) How come so many prepared trail meals come labelled as "two" servings when after a day of 10 or more miles, they satisfy barely one serving?
18) Dogs. I love dogs, big dogs especially. But where do people get off bringing an aggressive St. bernard-mix on the LT? One found us at a shelter and nearly chomped our balls every time we approached the shelter from dinner, filtering or meandering about. Give her a chance, stay still so she gets to know you, wait, give her a cookie, the owners said. All this without the dog being on leash and hiking with a son back from two war tours. The dog came at him and he dropped everything and pulled his knife. I had to step between them and he wasn't the same the rest of the hike. That dog pretty much ruined the good karma we had going. We wouldn't get it back. Thank you to those ****s.
19) Rain. We hiked one day in rain. It wasn't that bad, but is any rain rain gear really "breathable?"
jakedatc
09-19-2012, 23:19
2: Manch center was my first hitch hike in and out. super friendly locals
9: be sure to evaluate your other gear, especially stuff that did not get much use before you get a new pack. no sense getting something bigger than you need. Lots of choices out there much lighter than what you have now
10: hammocks need an underquilt in cold weather. when you lay on your sleeping bag it compresses the insulation to nothing and with cold air under you, it goes right through.
14: i thought the map was good, the trail crossing markers had something to be desired north of the AT. E-E guide and book... useless crap
17: this is pretty well known and if you look at the calories on it you will see. if you like them, add stuff like olive oil, fried onions, tuna etc to beef them up..
19: rain gear is not breathable. on my trip it never rained hard enough to need my rain jacket while hiking except for when it downpoured and then it was too late for a jacket anyway so i wore that while my shirt dried out
Cookerhiker
09-20-2012, 07:36
[QUOTE=SamA;1339691]Bailed from the LT last week just north of Killington. Alas, E2E was not be this time.
Notes and observations:.....
7) The Inn at Long Trail is one true hiker oasis. Met great people, supplemented by great food and beer.
8) The GMC says the Whistle Stop Cafe is 0.5 miles from the LT. I think it is less. But what a GREAT breakfast and delightful crew. It's worth every step to visit.
.
.
11).... but I gotta say the LT lacks instant gratification rewards. The views and vistas are minimal and I wanted more. A lot more.
12) Got back to Killington when we bailed and Everywhere Taxi shuttled us back to Williamstown for $250. That seemed steep, considering the driver was late, stopped for an errand and then gas and then missed the WIlliams Inn where we parked for $2 a day next to the police station.
.../[QUOTE]
#7 - Absolutely agree! A fabulous place!
#8 - That was my impression also. It didn't seem that far.
#11 - Much of the LT's rewards are in the north. For example, if you started a section hike at Lincoln Gap NOBO, you'd hit the Mt. Abraham and the Lincoln Ridge where you'd enjoy magnificent views of Lake Champlain - nothing comparable anywhere on the AT. A bit further north, Camels Hump is a tough climb but very rewarding with the 360 degree views of Champlain, the Adirondacks, and the White Mountain as well as Mansfield to the north. I'm starting that very hike on October 1.
But even in the half you hiked, there's still the rewards of the views from the fire towers atop Glastonbury and Stratton mountains. And how about the lakes - Stratton Pond, Little Rock Pond, Griffith Lake?
#12 - it's too bad you were unaware of the bus service. You can get from Rutland all the way to Williamstown with just one change of bus lines.
I disagree with Jakedatc that the guidebook is "useless crap" - I've found it very helpful.
jakedatc
09-20-2012, 08:09
I thought it was much more useful to day hikers. when the mileages reset at each section it is not helpful for a thru hiker IMO. I guess i am spoiled by the condensed information of AWOL's book and found the map to be sufficient. plus carrying a book that size is silly anyway
The LT is a beast from App Gap to Canada. It is one thing after another without a break. The views are awesome but I hated the trail and was glad to be done with that part. From Williamstown to App Gap I found it pretty typical hiking.
The Long Trail Inn gets a 10 for atmosphere but I'd give it a 5 overall. I have this thing about hotel rooms that do not have a TV - it drives me nuts.
Manchester Center is my favorite trail town by far. I've stayed at the Sutton Place each time I've been there. I was in MC center on my birthday this year and the owner gave me a pass to the movies that he had won in an auction. I really-really want to check out Jeff's place but I love staying in town so I can walk around, rest, walk around some more, etc.
Map was excellent, I took pages from the E2E guide - not the whole book - and found it very helpful for planning my day but I'm geeky like that.
All in all it was a great hike - the kind that gets better in memory as time passes. I doubt I ever hike it again, or anywhere else in New England. I understand why people love to hike up there, and I can appreciate it, but it's just not the kind of hiking I like. The southern Apps have spoiled me rotten. :)
jakedatc
09-20-2012, 08:29
i did bring the E-E guide but i wish i had only copied the shelter information list. the rest was not helpful (the town maps were ok but i didnt need them)
i did bring the E-E guide but i wish i had only copied the shelter information list. the rest was not helpful (the town maps were ok but i didnt need them)
Yeah, that's what I took.
Good report SamA.
Cookerhiker is correct on bus trips between Rutland and Williamstown, MA. For those who may be reading this as you plan section hikes along the LT, the bus trip will cost $6 per person. You can leave Rutland at 6:30AM and arrive in Williamstown, MA at 9:22 or leave at 8:30AM and arrive at 2:22 spending several hours in Manchester. Tough or impossible to do on weekends.
Good report SamA.
Cookerhiker is correct on bus trips between Rutland and Williamstown, MA. For those who may be reading this as you plan section hikes along the LT, the bus trip will cost $6 per person. You can leave Rutland at 6:30AM and arrive in Williamstown, MA at 9:22 or leave at 8:30AM and arrive at 2:22 spending several hours in Manchester. Tough or impossible to do on weekends.
also worth noting is that taking the very first bus from inn at long trail in the morning (or any of the stops along rt 4 out to killington) does not get you into rutland in time for a morning bus to manchester. so unless youre up for a 6 hour stop over in rutland (not really a good time, trust me) just wait until the afternoon before even starting the trip.
why the schedule is like this i have no idea, most likely laziness and stupidity. the connection misses by about 10 minutes in the am. it would be easy to fix if anyone cared to. i guess they dont.
Cookerhiker
09-20-2012, 11:51
The LT is a beast from App Gap to Canada. It is one thing after another without a break. The views are awesome but I hated the trail and was glad to be done with that part. From Williamstown to App Gap I found it pretty typical hiking....
Hated?:-? Pretty strong sentiment. And I didn't think you were capable of hatred of any kind.:)
Hated?:-? Pretty strong sentiment. And I didn't think you were capable of hatred of any kind.:)
Ok, ok.... I didn't hate it. I just didn't like it very much. I like dirt, leaves, and switchbacks. :)
SamA,
I'm the person who said to you in a post earlier this summer "we can do this..." Well I also bailed out at the Long Trail Inn. Your 18 point list describes my experience exactly. More specifically, the reasons I bailed are:
1) I tried to make a schedule of the entire hike before hand. Big mistake. I made reservations at hostels at 5 places, which meant I had to hike the miles I thought I could do. Consequently I was more concerned about the destination instead of the hike itself, which hook the fun out of it. North of Rt 4, everyone was saying how much more difficult it gets, and I didn't believe I could hold to my schedule.
2) The meals I thought I wanted when at home was not what I wanted on the trail. Crackers are not what I want when trying to stay hydrated. Cooking got to be a PITA. Too much futzing with the stove especially getting to the shelters near dark.
3) My pack was 30 lbs fully loaded with food and water, but it was still too heavy. I too found that out coming down the steep mountain to Rt 9. Really hard on the knees. This is where I caught my trailing foot on a rock above and did a head first face-plant, luckily in some boughs. Upside down for about a minute before I could upright myself.
I had to regroup and I'm going back again next August to try again. I'm lightening up. I just went gear crazy and just dropped $1000 to Zpacks for a new Exo pack, quilt, solo plus tent, cuben rain jacket and kilt. Base weight is now 8 lbs.
I'm going to forsake the planning I was taught to do as an engineer and wing it as I go, and enjoy the moments without time limits.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jakedatc
09-20-2012, 13:56
Deacon I like your new plan. I did not send any packages or make reservations. When you go to town for resupply you can get the food and amount that you want and get to readjust each time.
look into freezer bag cooking.. takes 5 minutes to boil water and then you just let it "cook" in an easy to make Cozie. I'd usually set up my sleeping stuff while it was cooking. clean up is easy.. drain any excess liquid and put any other trash into it, zip closed. repeat daily and you never have to open a smelly trash bag again. just keep stuffing into that day's dinner bag.
There is no picture of you upside down is there? ;)
I'm lightening up. I just went gear crazy and just dropped $1000 to Zpacks for a new Exo pack, quilt, solo plus tent, cuben rain jacket and kilt. Base weight is now 8 lbs.
If you do much hiking at all I look forward to hearing you report that this was the best $1000 you ever spent after your next hike.. :)
Sam,
I agree with your notes. And I know how you feel about having to abort the hike before the finish line. I was bummed out. The lounge at Atlanta airport provided sufficient alchohol for me to forget how bummed i was feeling when I left Waitsfield.
I've stayed twice at Sutton's Place in Manchester Center. The owner Frank is a super nice guy, very hiker friendly. We were callling the Rt-9 rock staircase the stairway from *ell. The afternoon I was going down that staircase, it was warm and muggy....a group of southbounders were stopped halfway up... they had just come from an AYCE Chinese buffet/restaurant in Bennington. Some poor southbounder was losing his lunch on the rocks.
for knee protection/problems, try the Cho-Pat dual action knee brace... I've worn one on all my recent hiking trips, they really do help.
maybe I'll see you on the LT next year... I'm definitely planning to do it again next year and try to make it all the way next time!
Thanks to everyone for their comments.
Would I tackle the LT again? You bet, especially if it means getting quality time with my son. Minimally, though, I think I'd do it in sections and I really do hope to get another piece of it done next year.
Stratton Pond was, indeed, beautiful - even if it was socked in by fog. I was fond of Small Rock Pond, too, and spent a very pleasant afternoon just lounging on a rock and soaking my feet. The view from Bromley was pretty good, too. I just wish there were more vistas on the piece we did hike.
Among the highlights was just getting a chance to meet and talk to fellow hikers. Lots of great convseration.
What would I do different? Dump the MSR Whisperlight International and go with a simple alcohol stove, for one thing. For another, I'd plan less and just go with the flow. Our "we gotta do 17 miles today come hell or high water" approach just added pressure where there didn't need to be any. Lesson learned.
SamA
Slo-go'en
09-20-2012, 17:36
Ok, ok.... I didn't hate it. I just didn't like it very much. I like dirt, leaves, and switchbacks. :)
While I also enjoy the nice easy trail down in the southern Appalachians, it really isn't all that challenging. You got to admit, the LT and NE trails in general are a lot more challenging and interesting. There is rarely a dull moment and you need to always pay attention to where your feet are going - often planning three steps ahead.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who wasn't capable of end-to-ending this year, guess that makes me feel a little bit better. There is always next year! Section hiking is the way to go! (at least for me) :)
jakedatc
09-20-2012, 19:51
Sam.. a simple Pocket Rocket or even better the Snow peak Giga canister stove.. convenience of the canister and far less weight than Whisperlight. after bringing my alcohol stove this weekend on my overnight i am damn glad i didnt bring it on LT.. fiddly, need OH resupply, doesnt do well in wind, boil is slow. 1 8oz canister go me through the whole trip.
Cookerhiker
09-20-2012, 22:15
Sam.. a simple Pocket Rocket or even better the Snow peak Giga canister stove.. convenience of the canister and far less weight than Whisperlight. after bringing my alcohol stove this weekend on my overnight i am damn glad i didnt bring it on LT.. fiddly, need OH resupply, doesnt do well in wind, boil is slow. 1 8oz canister go me through the whole trip.
I was going to suggest this also but you beat me to it. Mine is a Coleman F! Exponent Ultralight (since discontinued) and absolutely no hassle, no fuss. Light the match, turn the lever, out comes the flame.
jakedatc
09-20-2012, 22:38
Yep, and when you figure you only need to boil like 1-2 cups of water for FBC it is very fast and efficient. that reminds me.. my lighter was on the fritz this weekend so i should check it's fuel level.. (i carry a packet of bar matches for back up)
Highway Man
09-23-2012, 13:18
Just some of my opinions and quick recollections,
1). Agreed.
2). Didn't remember.
3). Price Chopper's manager gave me themember discount for my food resupply, the only place happened during my 2009 AT NOBO thru hike. Very nice!
4). Didn't recall that was noisy in Sutton's Place. Got a local taxi to ride back to the trail, and wasasked for a tip beyond the normal charge when approaching the trailhead at VT 11/30.
5). Stayed in mostly in shelters, andhung food around the shelters. Didn't experience any pest problems.
6). Met a bunch of Harvard kids in anorientation program at Story Spring Shelter. They moved away to a camp site in the woods once saw two people were already in it. It was raining, sometimes hard during the day. They stayed quiet all night.
7). Didn't have too much experience. Left my car in their parking lot for $2 per night, but previously believed $1 per night by 2007 E2E guide book.
8). No idea.
9). Yes, lighter will be much better.
10). Used a hammock/tarp as an emergency setup, and only once in 2011 section hike. The temperature was high at the night. Good backup choice for that type of terrainw here can hardly find a flat spot on the ridges in case of an emergency.
11). Agreed. 95% of the time, had no views. And encountered more unfavorable weathers at Stratton Mt,Bromley Mt, Mt. Ellen range, Mansfield Mt, and Jay Peak. A littledisappointed, but still enjoyed the diversities and nerve-tight moments.
12). Researched public transportation availability in VT quite a bit, but used only a little in Rutland. People are super nice in Vermont in general. Feeling this way particularly in 2011 section hike after got 15 hitches(?) to move forward my car left in the previous trailheads.
13). Don't know about it.
14). Never used maps to hike the entireLT, and never felt necessary. The trail is well marked. But having a profile of the trail to help plan daily trip may seem good.
15). In general, the terrain hurts theknees much more than imposing any physical challenge on the otherbody parts.
16). Physical preparation helps dealwith the tough terrain.
17). Yeah.. was always hungry no matter how much to have eaten.
18). Don't recall encountering any unpleasant dogs on the trail. But heard a story in 2011 section hike at mid September. A NOBO thru hiker, “Up Tree” told me that an old guy showed up at a shelter near Pico Mt. with a brand-new rifle without a sling! A strange guy, but quite nice to donate “Up Tree”his flashlight. I personally don't want to be around any person with fire arms.
19). Rain ruined almost half length of my LT hikes, from MA/VT border to Rutland due to bad feet, and near Johnson due to a fever resulted from walking in a Hurricane Floyd's tail.