View Full Version : BMT option, would you????
MedicineMan
05-08-2005, 04:34
How many potential thru-hikers would consider using the newly ordained Benton MacKaye Trail as an option from Springer to Davenport Gap on their thru-hike?
SGT Rock
05-08-2005, 07:33
You know, I have always planned on hiking the AT alone when I thru, but I have been giving serious consideration to doing the initial part to Davenport Gap on the BMT. And since that seems to be the mostly unused option, I might be interested in hiking with a partner or for that first part just for some company. Anyone thinking about 2009?
Something to consider: A friend of mine was/is hiking the AT this year. Now this is a person that cut his teeth hiking in the Smokies and has hiked all the AT in the Smokies. To the story...
He got to Fontanna Dam and crossed it as the Smokies were getting dumped on. So he decides he has already done that section anyway, so he turns around, gets off the trail for a couple of days, then gets back on at Mt Collins Shelter so he can get back to his friends. Some people started telling him he wasn't a thru-hiker anymore. It really upset him and the straw that broke the camels back was when he got crap from a trail angel at a feed that was meant for thru-hikers. He got off the trail and is now planning to jump up to Katahdin and finish his hike south just to get a change in people.
So my point is if you take this route, be prepared for people to tell you how you are not a thru-hiker and doing it wrong. Me, I could care less. When people ask me what I am doing, I'll just tell them I'm walking to Maine since some folks can't get their mind around the concept that you can go more than one way and not be a "Cheater".
Re your friends treatment; people are stupid. Nuff said.
I have already done Springer to Erwin, so to me (I mostly hate backtracking, not always but,,,) the BMT is a reasonable option, and a chance to see some different sights. I figure I would have a chance to decide once I got to Springer, check out the crowd, judge my mental state see if I want to "Truely" solo :cool:
But, I also want to do the Kimsey creek trail again, and the BMT goes nowhere near it. Does that make me not a purest? Maybe. However if the definition of a purest is to see all of the white blazes, I have done that for the first 363 & seen every blaze along that section. My goal is indeed to see EVERY white blaze, but no need to see them twice. OTOH, on the trail blue blazers are hiking "Their own hike" so no grief from me. Might have a problem with "chronic" yellow blazers (I can't stand Bryson, one of the worst yellow blazers, ever.)
Doctari.
I hope your friend enjoys the hike no matter what. After all, it's only hiking.
Doctari.
SGT Rock
05-08-2005, 09:12
...I hope your friend enjoys the hike no matter what. After all, it's only hiking.
Doctari.
Amen brother.
Youngblood
05-08-2005, 10:49
No matter what his reasons, it's sad that a few folks took such an elitist attitude with him and even more troubling that it carried over to trail angel(s) at a thru-hiker feed. That is a heck of a reason the leave the trail, wonder how the folks that contributed to that results feel about it?
Youngblood
Some people started telling him he wasn't a thru-hiker anymore. It really upset him and the straw that broke the camels back was when he got crap from a trail angel at a feed that was meant for thru-hikers.
I got news for you. That ain't no trail angel. Never was. That's a trail a-hole. You run into them from time to time. Best to ignore them.
saimyoji
05-08-2005, 11:49
That is a heck of a reason the leave the trail, wonder how the folks that contributed to that results feel about it?
Youngblood
I'm sure they don't care at all. If they did, they probably wouldn't have had the initial attitude they did.
Uncle Silly
05-08-2005, 15:23
When people ask me what I am doing, I'll just tell them I'm walking to Maine
great attitude, Rock. that's what i've found myself telling people when i talk about my upcoming trip. i've the realistic understanding that anything could happen and i might not make it... i'll call myself a thru-hiker once i've finished, whether it's this year or if it takes me a few years. it's all good, HYOHALOHT!!
(HYOH ... And Let Others Hike Theirs!!)
Tha Wookie
05-08-2005, 16:20
Why not hike the BMT section? Because of what other people think?
As long as you tell the truth and walk your walk, nothing else matters.
Take the road less traveled. You might run into Robert Frost.
MedicineMan
05-09-2005, 00:55
glad to hear that some would take the road less traveled.
a few years ago we sea kayaked along the 'belly' of GSMNP and thought that portion of the park mysterious, with the BMT open/official now many can see a part of the park few every think of.
hopefully sometime this summer me and the oldest daughter will be paddling by morning and tasting the BMT in the afternoon
max patch
05-09-2005, 12:53
He got to Fontanna Dam and crossed it as the Smokies were getting dumped on. So he decides he has already done that section anyway, so he turns around, gets off the trail for a couple of days, then gets back on at Mt Collins Shelter so he can get back to his friends. Some people started telling him he wasn't a thru-hiker anymore. It really upset him and the straw that broke the camels back was when he got crap from a trail angel at a feed that was meant for thru-hikers. He got off the trail and is now planning to jump up to Katahdin and finish his hike south just to get a change in people.
Sorry, don't buy it.
I don't believe someone is going to get off the trail just because they didn't get a free meal at a trail crossing. Thats an excuse for whatever the real reason is.
I'm waiting for Paul Harvey to give us "The rest of the story."
This thread posed a pretty simple question. "How many potential thru-hikers would consider using the newly ordained Benton MacKaye Trail as an option from Springer to Davenport Gap on their thru-hike?" Having hiked a good bit of the BMT, and all of the AT between Springer & Davenport Gap, I'm in somewhat of a unique position to comment.
If you're all about passing every white blaze and getting a patch & certificate from the ATC (and that's great), then hike the AT from Springer to Davenport Gap. If you're about adventure, solitude, and a greater physical challenge, then hike the BMT between Springer & Davenport Gap.
IMO, either way you can't go wrong. Just don't let peer pressure (or pressure from non-hikers) play a role in your decision. HYOH.
SGT Rock
05-09-2005, 17:58
Sorry, don't buy it.
I don't believe someone is going to get off the trail just because they didn't get a free meal at a trail crossing. Thats an excuse for whatever the real reason is.
I'm waiting for Paul Harvey to give us "The rest of the story."Never said he didn't get the meal. He got it, he just got crap with it for skipping the section as gravy. Seems a little petty to me to tell someone that has already hiked a section anyway he ain't doing it right. Anyway, getting off the trail according to him at this time is just a temporary state. He does plan to finish, just in his own manner. Personally I could care less if he stayed on or got off, the decision is up to the hiker, what bothers me more is the people giving him crap about a small section skipped for weather. I've hiked with the guy and he isn't a sissy in that sort of thing, just a little more sensitve to the words of others.
I would definately consider taking the BMT trail when I thru-hike. As a matter of fact, I'm toying with the idea of doing a thru-hike by blue-blazing and using the AT as a connector trail. :eek: HAH! :dance
MedicineMan
05-09-2005, 22:25
really hike, but i'm also the type that can sit and stare at a map for hours. on a wall at home i've glued edge to overlapping edge 9 of the raised topographical maps and then framed it....often i'll sit and ponder, most recently i was looking at Big Pine Mtn and wondering how Mowgli will connect that trail from Breaks Interstate Park (an awesome place by the way)to Burk's Garden and the A.T.
To me it is fascinating in the truest sense of the word that when the Southern Coalition (a little help here Mowgli on the vernacular) is done there will be 5000 miles of trail in the southeast.
And a loud round of applause to you LittleRedMg...i think you may be getting the exact gist of what MacKaye had in mind......someday Sgt. Rock may be sitting on Mt.K reciting how he took the BMT and even the Tuscorora on his way up while another will recite how he took the 'western alternative' up the Cumberland Trail and then through Cumberland Gap NHP to the Pine Mtn. Trail........the Appalachians are HUGE, look at the number of trails that come off the Blue Ridge Parkway that at one time were branches off the original A.T.
This week off I'm going to get a tast of the Foothills Trail, just confirmed my shuttle; this because of Johnny Malloys vehement raving and a proximal paddle trip on Lake Jocassee......some many trails, so little time :)
To me it is fascinating in the truest sense of the word that when the Southern Coalition (a little help here Mowgli on the vernacular) is done there will be 5000 miles of trail in the southeast.
Thanks for the plug MedicineMan. That's the Southeastern Foot Trails Coalition - currently comprised by 30 organizations interested in trail connectivity. http://www.americanhiking.org/alliance/sai.html
I'll have a really cool brand new map at Trail Days for folks to look at & drool over. :D Unfortunately, they are not yet available for sale. Soon I hope.
This week off I'm going to get a taste of the Foothills Trail, just confirmed my shuttle; this because of Johnny Malloys vehement raving and a proximal paddle trip on Lake Jocassee......some many trails, so little time :)
Yup, at last weekends Southeastern Foot Trails Conference, Molloy said that his favorite trail of all (in the SE) was the Foothills Trail. I was just talking to Heyward Douglass of the Foothills Trail Conference tonite, and he is still swelled with pride over that compliment. I hiked the trail in the dead of winter, and would love to go back in the warmer weather.
The coolest thing is... a hiker could start at Table Rock State Park and hike the Foothills Trail to the Chattooga River Trail, to the Bartram rail, to the AT, then go north to Katahdin, or turn off onto the Mountains to Sea Trail. Or... jump onto the Benton Mackaye and loop back to Springer.
It's all good!
MedicineMan
05-09-2005, 23:08
see Mowlgi that is exactly what i'm talking about....just blows me away all the possibilities....and sorry i missed you in asheville :) , would have bought you a beer at the Beer Garden.
and about that map.........as soon as they are available i'll hang one on the wall
Hammock Hanger
05-10-2005, 07:47
I think it would be great to have some alternative options for hiking from GA to ME. But I agree the AT purist will not see this as an AT Thru-hike.
I just did the first 50 miles of the BMT and have to say there were little to no views. It would be a shame to miss some of the AT views but I'm sure there are enough views to make up for it along the way. Also there would be no "Mt Crossings to bail out at or change gear". For some that would be a good thing.
Campsites are not as plentiful on the BMT and there is only one shelter.
There are a number of places to stop for food and short term re-supply up to Hwy 76, after that it becomes more wilderness. Not sure about the newer section.
I had to rescue a hurt hiker and thus did not get to finish this hike. I hope to finish the last 3 days to Thunderock Campground around 6/10 if I can find a shuttle and a place for my Jeep which will be toting a kayak. Any suggestions out there????
I may even try and do the newer section in August if it is completed.
Sue/HH
SGT Rock
05-10-2005, 07:56
Campsites are not as plentiful on the BMT and there is only one shelter.
Sounds like a god thing ;)
Hammock Hanger
05-10-2005, 08:01
It is definately a much quieter trail. We did not see one other hiker. Almanac & Profile who hiked it a couple of weeks before us, said they did not see anyone either.
It was peaceful.
Sue/HH
[QUOTE=SGT Rock]Some people started telling him he wasn't a thru-hiker anymore....QUOTE]
I have a hiker friend who, when someone once said something like this to him, he paused, thought for a second, and replied...
"Hey, I have an idea. Go f#!& yourself." Then turned around and walked away.
All that for sidetracking a southern bald that was getting hit by lightening. Some people get so caught up in the "every blaze!!! or else!!" nonsense, that they forget that it's still going to be a wonderful hike even if you do miss a step or two. No matter how you look at it, a few months in the woods just can't suck at all. Not even a little bit.
The ironic thing is that most people go hiking to get away from this attitude...
SGT Rock
05-10-2005, 16:10
I have a hiker friend who, when someone once said something like this to him, he paused, thought for a second, and replied...
"Hey, I have an idea. Go f#!& yourself." Then turned around and walked away.
HUA! good for your friend.:bse
This is the sort of thing that no one should care about anyway. But I think part of the problem today is everyone thinks they have the right to ask someone personal things and and even tell people what they think about personal issues. It has gone out of style to say: That ain't none of your business. :p
Happy Feet
05-10-2005, 16:15
Hatman and I have thru-hiked the Georgia section of the BMT several times. Once we hiked from Thunder Rock CG to Springer on the BMT, then up to Hot Springs on the AT. The constrasts in these two trails are like night and day. On one particular hike we had solitude on the BMT, only seeing one other person - a section maintainer working - and when we hit the AT it was like an interstate highway! While our beloved AT is a more social trail (in my opinion) the BMT is a wilderness trail.
There ARE staggering views in TN/NC, especially along the high ridge of the Unaka Mountains that define the state line. It really is a beautiful new trail.
The BMTA has a website: www.BMTA.org (http://www.bmta.org/)
He got to Fontanna Dam and crossed it as the Smokies were getting dumped on. So he decides he has already done that section anyway, so he turns around, gets off the trail for a couple of days, then gets back on at Mt Collins Shelter so he can get back to his friends. Some people started telling him he wasn't a thru-hiker anymore. It really upset him and the straw that broke the camels back was when he got crap from a trail angel at a feed that was meant for thru-hikers. He got off the trail and is now planning to jump up to Katahdin and finish his hike south just to get a change in people.
If it was about what people said to him and he couldn't handle it, that's his issue.
If it's about qualifying for ATC's recognition, the criticism was not justified and he should have ignored it. ATC clearly, in writing, does not differentiate between thru-hikers and section hikers in its criteria for awarding the Certificate of Completion, 2,000-miler patch, and publication of one's name in its magazine. By skipping a section he had done previously, he still qualifies for ATC recognition assuming he does the rest of the AT before making application--whether this year or some year in the future.
TakeABreak
06-17-2005, 16:19
I would definitely consider an alternative to the A.T., especially if I were hiking at a time of year when there are a lot of people on the A.T.. Because that is why I go hiking anyways, is to get away from the crowds and to be in as much of a wilderness setting as possible.
As far as the Purist attitude goes, I do not get these people anyway's, it has been my experience that people, with that kind of an attitude are people I would associate with in personal to begin with. And are people that their thru-hike is a once in a life time adventure, not a way of life.
Hey Sgt, Rock, as far telling people that ain't none of their business, well I guess it's my army experience coming out in me, I tell people it ain't none of their business all the time. To relatives or someone I feel like being a little bit more, shall we say polite, I look them square in the eye and say, you know I just don't understand the relavance of that question, perhaps if you could explain it to me, I might considering answering the question. Or I say, that is not something I just don't talk about.
They generally get the message and don't ever ask me a question of that type ever again.
Another one I like is, why are writing a book or something (if they reply and say yes) look them square in the eye and say, well leave that chapter out and make it a mystery novel.
Dances with Mice
06-17-2005, 18:15
How many potential thru-hikers would consider using the newly ordained Benton MacKaye Trail as an option from Springer to Davenport Gap on their thru-hike?I'm reading "Friendships of the Trail" Volume 1, ( http://www.georgia-atclub.org/store.html ) about the history of the GATC. There was a time in the 60's that the Blue Ridge Parkway was to be extended through the GSMNP & the Chattahocchie Nat'l Forest, following the Blue Ridge. That would have wiped out the GA section of the AT.
The road had support of both the Forest Svc & state politicians, it was looking like a done deal. The GATC had to scramble to find an alternate route for the AT off of the Blue Ridge & they blazed a trail remarkably close to the present-day Benton Mac and marked potential shelter sites. For awhile (...and I'm just getting to this part of the book, so I don't know all the details...) the Benton Mac/Duncan Ridge Trails were listed as the official route, although it was never white blazed. This came about because the GATC had to declare a route for an official aerial mapping project, and since they were pretty sure the roadway was a'coming they marked the Benton Mac route for the survey.
The aerial mapping was completed on Government time, of course. When the survey was finally issued the Parkway threat had gone away but the Benton Mac route was shown as the official route. Which the book hints that the marked vs. actual route would cause other problems, but I haven't read that part yet.
Anyway, my point is that the Benton Mac route already shares some history with the AT. Besides the name, I mean.
justusryans
06-17-2005, 19:55
i'm thruhiking next year and just would like to say that the biggest reason i'm going is to get away from mean spirited, bigoted,narrowminded idiots who try to justify their putrid existance by detracting from the life experiences of others. that being said whatever happened to live and let live. nobody should have to justify any part of their trail experience to anyone but themselves. if you are not crapping in anyone's cheerios then they have no business crapping in yours. you know if you walked all the way or not. the only people it should matter to is yourself and the people who's opinion you value. nobody else. and it shouldn't matter to anybody else. I apologise if my use of language has offended anyone, but live and let live.
TakeABreak
06-17-2005, 23:37
To Justusryans, well said!!
MedicineMan
06-17-2005, 23:48
imagine that....
This past weekend I went to Cincinnati to watch a crew regatta and while there sample the Ohio Buckeye Trail....Sad to say I was very dissapointed in the sections I chose. It was through the state park that surrounds Harsha Lake and the entire footpath had been desecrated by horses. There are horse trails there and stables (in the S.P.) but a ranger explained that there are simply not enough rangers to enforce who rides where. I contrasted this hike with my last section hike in SNP and the hike 2 weeks before that on the Foothills Trail in S. Carolina. Me thinks the Foothills trail is a hidden gem of hiking experience and I know I'm lucky to live relatively close to it.
...He got to Fontanna Dam and crossed it as the Smokies were getting dumped on. So he decides he has already done that section anyway, so he turns around, gets off the trail for a couple of days, then gets back on at Mt Collins Shelter so he can get back to his friends..
This sounds more like a "Section Hike" than a "Thru-Hike". First section was Fontana to Mt Collins Shelter, Second: from Springer to Fontana, Third: Mt Collins Shelter to Katahdin. Will still qualify as a 2000 miler. If one hikes the BMT without ever hiking the bypassed section of AT, then they have not hiked the entire AT and should not be entitled to the 2000 mile AT certificate.
My husband claims an "AT Thru-Hike" is passing all the white blazes in a single season, in the same direction, from Springer to Katahdin(or vice versa) (before Baxter is closed for the season) . Anything else on foot is a "Thru-Hike from Ga to Maine", a FlipFlop AT thru-hike, a Section hike, a 2000 miler,etc. If some of the travel was by machinery (ie:car, bike, ie: yellowblazing) then it is "Thru-traveling from Ga to Maine". He's not really a die hard purist, just respecting what the white blazes stand for: "THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL". If it didn't matter, the blue, or any other color, blazed bypass trails should also be marked white, afterall they also will lead to Katahdin.
Ramble~On
06-18-2005, 04:03
"To walk, to see, and to see what you see."
Would I consider doing the BMT as part of a Thru-hike ? YES.
To me a thru-hike is a personal thing.
My opinion of a thru hike being a personal thing is my point.
I consider it a thru-hike, hiking from Georgia to Maine or Maine to Georgia or flip flopping around...in one hike regardless of zero days, side trips to events, cities, parks, support teams or whatever...one continuous hike in 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 months, hiking from GA-ME or ME-GA....hiking, not yellow blazing or jumping ahead...to me that's a thru-hike. HIKE, key word...HIKE from GA-ME, ME-GA.
Being it's a personal thing I could give a damn if other people brandish me a "section hiker", "non-purest", "non-thru-hiker" If I start at Springer and hike to Katahdin via the AT or side trails connected to the AT in loops...I consider that a THRU-HIKE. Recognition ? I don't hike for recognition, I hike for recreation.
So if the ATC or anyone else deems me a "non-thru hiker" I could care a less. Hiking is personal to me and I wish that there were more side trails that offered alternatives.
As for the BMT as part of a thru hike, what do you think Benton would say ?
Was his idea for a single footpath ? did he envision side trails, work camps, farms ? Hike your own hike, and enjoy it !!!! Who cares if your hike is not the ideal that others deem "regulation" or "typical"
:sun
MedicineMan
06-18-2005, 05:52
"and I wish that there were more side trails that offered alternatives"
and I love your attitude about including the other trails into YOUR thru-hike...i'm hoping that the ultimate mindset will be that the Appalachian Trail is inclusive of all the trails that are in the Appalachian mountains.......
Youngblood
06-18-2005, 08:45
"To walk, to see, and to see what you see."
Would I consider doing the BMT as part of a Thru-hike ? YES.
To me a thru-hike is a personal thing.
My opinion of a thru hike being a personal thing is my point.
I consider it a thru-hike, hiking from Georgia to Maine or Maine to Georgia or flip flopping around...in one hike regardless of zero days, side trips to events, cities, parks, support teams or whatever...one continuous hike in 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 months, hiking from GA-ME or ME-GA....hiking, not yellow blazing or jumping ahead...to me that's a thru-hike. HIKE, key word...HIKE from GA-ME, ME-GA.
Being it's a personal thing I could give a damn if other people brandish me a "section hiker", "non-purest", "non-thru-hiker" If I start at Springer and hike to Katahdin via the AT or side trails connected to the AT in loops...I consider that a THRU-HIKE. Recognition ? I don't hike for recognition, I hike for recreation.
So if the ATC or anyone else deems me a "non-thru hiker" I could care a less. Hiking is personal to me and I wish that there were more side trails that offered alternatives.
As for the BMT as part of a thru hike, what do you think Benton would say ?
Was his idea for a single footpath ? did he envision side trails, work camps, farms ? Hike your own hike, and enjoy it !!!! Who cares if your hike is not the ideal that others deem "regulation" or "typical"
:sunSpirit Wind,
I like that... you understand what it is all about.
Youngblood
"and I wish that there were more side trails that offered alternatives"
and I love your attitude about including the other trails into YOUR thru-hike...i'm hoping that the ultimate mindset will be that the Appalachian Trail is inclusive of all the trails that are in the Appalachian mountains.......
Thanks Medicine Man. Last weekend when I took my wife and daughter out on a hike from Carvers Gap to US 19E, my wife was walking along and commenting about the amount of erosion and levels of use along that section of trail. Now, that is no way a criticism of the Tennessee Eastman Hiking & Canoe Club. They do a great job in one of the highest use areas along the entire trail.
She looked at me at one point and said, "if this hike doesn't convince you that your effort to build out all these other trail in the SE is vital - then I don't know what will."
I would encourage anyone & everyone who has hiked along the AT, or dreams of hiking along the AT to join a trail club and get active volunteering. American Hiking Society is not a trail maintaining organization per-se, but it is coordinating the effort to connect a host of different trails together in the SE. We're also assisting these various clubs like the Cumberland Trail Conference, Florida Trail Association, Benton MacKaye Trail Association, Mountains To Sea Trail, and many more to obtain funding, volunteers, and publicity for their trails.
American Hiking Society could always use new members. We can't build this trail network without support from hikers like y'all. I hope some of you will consider becoming a member. To learn more about membership and some of the great benefits please visit the link below.
http://www.americanhiking.org/join/index.html
Jeffrey Hunter
SGT Rock
06-20-2005, 19:53
Off topic SLIGHTLY but kudos to Jeff/Little Bear/MOWGLI16 for what he is doing. I think that the more effort that gets put into getting all these trails being considered more of a system than just a bunch of independent trails is a good thing for all of them, the AT included.
And thanks for getting me hooked up with the BMT, I now have a section I personally maintain. Talk about taking ownership of something! Being a maintainer is very rewarding. I hope he gets more of us WhiteBlazers to get involved!
Off topic SLIGHTLY but kudos to Jeff/Little Bear/MOWGLI16 for what he is doing. I think that the more effort that gets put into getting all these trails being considered more of a system than just a bunch of independent trails is a good thing for all of them, the AT included.
And thanks for getting me hooked up with the BMT, I now have a section I personally maintain. Talk about taking ownership of something! Being a maintainer is very rewarding. I hope he gets more of us WhiteBlazers to get involved!
SGT Rock, thank you for the compliment, but more importantly, thank you for taking the time to help maintain the BMT. It's folks like you who make it possible for folks like me to hike! And even more importantly, I know you're passing along this ethic to your boys. Cultivating the next generation of trail leaders is vital work!
Jeffrey Hunter