View Full Version : GSMNP permits
58starter
09-21-2012, 13:22
Can you pick up a permit at the NOC in Gatlinburg? Or can you pick up a permit and Newfound Gap?
I want to hiker from Newfound Gap to Fontana going south.
Thanks for and help.
I have always NOBOed thru the Park but when i was in Gatlinburg this past march on my 2012 Thru, i was at the NOC outfitter and i think i did see permits their, if not their, i now for a fact you can stop at the ranger station at Sugarloaf visitors center (after you leave Gatlinburgs city limits on the right) and pick one up.
Buffalo Skipper
09-21-2012, 13:33
You must call the park in advance and make reservations. Then when you arrive, you can fill out the backcountry permit. If you are coming through Gatlinburg, the Sugerlands Vistor Center is the best place to submit the permit. You will need to provide a reservation number you obtain when you call.
NPS GSMNP Backcountry Camping (http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm)
Backcountry Facilities
For current backcountry trail and campsite information call (865) 436-1297 or (865) 436-1231. Please note these numbers are for backcountry trail and campsite information only.
Sites, especially on the AT book fast. Call ASAP up to 30 days out.
58starter
09-21-2012, 13:33
Thank you for your quick response. I will check both places on Friday as I go into Gatlinbug from NC. We are having a reunion in Gatlinburg on Sat and Sun so I plan to do some hiking afterwards.
RD is correct but the name of the visitors center is Sugarland not Sugarloaf. Here is a link to all the permit locations. http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm
Buffalo Skipper
09-21-2012, 14:34
RD is correct but the name of the visitors center is Sugarland not Sugarloaf. Here is a link to all the permit locations. http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm
That is the same page I referenced in my post as well. If you look on that page and follow the link entitled "Backcountry Rules and Regulations (http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-regs.htm)" it clearly states in item 3 that use of reserved sites and shelters (http://www.whiteblaze.net/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm) must be confirmed through the Backcountry Reservation Office. A permit is meaningless if you do not have the reservation at sites requiring them. Reservations are required at all Shelters and campsite on the AT in GSMNP.
ParkRat09
09-21-2012, 22:15
865-436-1231...backcountry office to call for reservations. There are a million places in the park to get permits. Basically any of the rangers stations or visitors centers
Trail Bug
09-23-2012, 06:37
Started at Springer, but chose to go south from Newfound Gap to Fontana. We had two cars that we moved down the trail for resupply. I filled out the permit at Fontana. What a joke that was. The box was so full I could not get mine to go into the box. I noticed dates near the bottom that were over 30 days old. To me it was not a well maintained system.
Rain Man
09-23-2012, 09:54
... I will check both places on Friday as I go into Gatlinbug from NC. ...
If you are coming from Cherokee, NC, there is the Oconaluftee Visitors Center on that side of the Park, too, also on Hwy 441. I can't say 100%, but imagine you might be able to pick up your backcountry permit there, easier than at Sugarland VC. Just a thought.
There are four VCs in the Park--
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/visitorcenters.htm
Rain:sunMan
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ParkRat09
09-23-2012, 18:17
Started at Springer, but chose to go south from Newfound Gap to Fontana. We had two cars that we moved down the trail for resupply. I filled out the permit at Fontana. What a joke that was. The box was so full I could not get mine to go into the box. I noticed dates near the bottom that were over 30 days old. To me it was not a well maintained system.
Ha I saw the exact same thing when I section hiked the Smokie's AT a few months ago...could barely get my permit in there
swjohnsey
09-23-2012, 22:16
Don't bother, ain't nobody gonna check.
ParkRat09
09-23-2012, 22:33
Don't bother, ain't nobody gonna check.
Used to be true but I sectioned the AT in the SMokies a few months ago and 3 of the 4 nights there was a runner at the shelter checking reservations. Those shelters are full all the time esp in the Fall
swjohnsey
09-23-2012, 22:37
Did he/she stay all night? Didn't see a single ridgerunner or ranger in the Smokies.
Don't bother, ain't nobody gonna check.
So your saying that if nobody is checking then it's ok to break the rules? I think that is wrong! There are plenty of places you can hike and camp without any camping restrictions. To decide for yourself that it is ok to do so in the GSMNP on the AT is dishonest.
swjohnsey
09-24-2012, 08:21
Ignoring government stupidity is an American tradition.
Rain Man
09-24-2012, 15:39
Don't bother, ain't nobody gonna check.
You may want to review the WB User Agreement before making such a post:
4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts ... are forbidden.
Not to mention, not really appreciated. There is a saying: "Reputation is what you do when someone is watching. Character is what you do when no one is watching."
Sorry if any of this offends, but that's the way it is.
Rain Man
.
swjohnsey
09-24-2012, 21:05
You may want to review the WB User Agreement before making such a post:
Not to mention, not really appreciated. There is a saying: "Reputation is what you do when someone is watching. Character is what you do when no one is watching."
Sorry if any of this offends, but that's the way it is.
Rain Man
.
I bet you pee 200' off the trail.
All this is changing this year. We do not know how or what but now we have to pay a fee to use the backcountry Also with the fees they are hiring backcountry rangers with enforcement authority ( giving tickets) This is going to be an interesting year there. We will see how all this plays out!When they promulgate the regs it will be the first step----? Coming soon---
fredmugs
09-25-2012, 08:21
Ignoring government stupidity is an American tradition.
Absolutely. The stupidy here is charging such a low nightly fee and then hiring full time employees to enforce it.
swjohnsey
09-25-2012, 08:24
They could just build huts!
The rangers are seasonal and the Great Smoky Mountain Hiking Club is paying for them this year.
I'd bet there's less trash and other stupidity at the shelters with 2 ridgerunners. I agree with swjohnsey that some of the regulations can be stifling at times, but they're trying to encourage smart behaviour and respect. The park gets way too many visitors to only have 2 backcountry rangers for 900 miles of trails. The money has to come from somewhere.... I'd rather it came from the car-tards, but that's just me....
The rangers are seasonal and the Great Smoky Mountain Hiking Club is paying for them this year.
I'd bet there's less trash and other stupidity at the shelters with 2 ridgerunners. I agree with swjohnsey that some of the regulations can be stifling at times, but they're trying to encourage smart behaviour and respect. The park gets way too many visitors to only have 2 backcountry rangers for 900 miles of trails. The money has to come from somewhere.... I'd rather it came from the car-tards, but that's just me....
* I meant with 2 backcountry rangers... the ridgerunners have a different position....
HikerMom58
09-25-2012, 10:55
Well, as of right now, you need a reservation and the permit, both are free. You need to have, both, a reservation and a permit. Making the reservation is not easy or fun, since it's hard to "get through" sometimes, on the phone. The permit is easy to obtain. The permit "boxes" are in many locations around the park. Available 24/7. I was searching for this info a couple months ago....
budbronson
09-25-2012, 15:28
What are some of the "must-see" shelters/campsites in the Smokies? I'm planning on doing:
Mollie's Ridge -->
Siler -->
Mount LeConte -->
Pecks Corner -->
Cosby -->
Am I missing anything obvious here? I'm okay doing anywhere between 12 or 24 miles per day.
Thanks.
Brian
HikerMom58
09-25-2012, 17:47
This isn't a shelter or campsite but the Mt. Cammerer Fire tower is past Tri-corner shelter is a "must see". We didn't have time to check it out but there were a lot of folks hiking up to see it.
budbronson
09-25-2012, 18:41
Thanks, that sounds perfect! I can hit that on my last day and then stay at Davenport.
In general, are campsites or shelters preferable? I'm expecting all these shelters to be pretty packed. I usually like to set up my tent, but enjoy shelters because of all the people around, and shelters usually have fire rings/occasional good views. Do ridge runners strictly enforce the "no tents at shelters" policy?
HikerMom58
09-25-2012, 20:00
Umm... I only stayed at the shelters, so I don't know about the campsites. They have improved all the shelters in the GSMNP except for Davenport Shelter- it still had a fence across on it. It's still ok to stay there. :) When they remodeled all the shelters they tried to increase the space to put up tents. Space "under" the shelter roof.
I feel the same way you do about tenting. The shelter we stayed at was not full. Tri-corner had plenty of room to set up our tents in the shelter. The night we were there, there was 6 people sleeping in the shelter.(plenty of room for more) We set up our MSR Huba tents. (2) There was PLENTY of room.
We never saw a ridgerunner or a ranger.
I feel the same way you do about hanging out with people in the shelters and enjoying the fire rings/occasional good views. I hope you have a great time!!
budbronson
09-26-2012, 01:45
Good info, thanks! When were you there?
Rain Man
09-26-2012, 08:25
In general, are campsites or shelters preferable?
Which "campsites" are you asking about? Along the AT through the GSMNP, there are no campsites at all, only shelters, due in part to a history of abuse by hikers with the attitude of "rules and common decency are for lesser mortals and don't apply to me." Now at least the abuse is more localized to the shelters.
Rain Man
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HikerMom58
09-26-2012, 08:39
Which "campsites" are you asking about? Along the AT through the GSMNP, there are no campsites at all, only shelters, due in part to a history of abuse by hikers with the attitude of "rules and common decency are for lesser mortals and don't apply to me." Now at least the abuse is more localized to the shelters.
Rain Man
.
That is true but I thought, budbronson, might be thinking about not limiting his overnights to just those available on the AT. I know it's sad how many "rules and regulations" have to laid down b/c of what you just mentioned. It's alright. The park is beautiful.
budbronson- we (my daughter and I) were just there the end of July of this year. :)
swjohnsey
09-26-2012, 08:43
Which "campsites" are you asking about? Along the AT through the GSMNP, there are no campsites at all, only shelters, due in part to a history of abuse by hikers with the attitude of "rules and common decency are for lesser mortals and don't apply to me." Now at least the abuse is more localized to the shelters.
Rain Man
.
Yeah, us leave no trace types were a real problem.
budbronson
09-27-2012, 11:17
Yeah I was referring to campsites off the trail.
Some of the shelters I wanted were full, so I had to re-route my plans. I'm doing:
Mollies --- >
Silers --- >
LeConte --- >
Kephart --- >
Laurel ---- >
Cosby ---- > out
HikerMom58
09-27-2012, 12:56
Yeah I was referring to campsites off the trail.
Some of the shelters I wanted were full, so I had to re-route my plans. I'm doing:
Mollies --- >
Silers --- >
LeConte --- >
Kephart --- >
Laurel ---- >
Cosby ---- > out
Looks like a fun plan!! :)
Peakhunter
09-27-2012, 13:02
Thank you! I'm a very new hiker and I would like to think that everyone inexperienced or a "2000 miler" would had etiquette and respect for the laws and and fellow hikers!
Rhythmic
09-27-2012, 15:36
On original point... yes, it's tough to get through on the phone to the Backcountry Reservations Office... Yes, the 24/7 permit drop boxes are always overflowing. But what matters is when that Ranger or Ridgerunner shows up looking for YOUR copy of the permit. It's not worth a fine or being forced to move on down the trail to the next shelter when one is full and you are the one w/out the proper reservation to be staying there. The only one's not required to have an actual reservation are thru-hikers, which by definition in the park's eye's, are those who begin their hike 50 miles outside of the park and finish 50 miles outside of the park on the opposite end. But even they are required to have a permit on them. I've been in full shelters in the past when those without reservations or permits arrived and expected everyone to "make room" for them. There is a method (and reasoning) to the madness, those who choose to ignore and disrespect those methods are some of the very reasons as to why the park service is trying to justify additional labor and implementation of backcountry fee's in order to maintain the integrity and enjoyment of the park facilities.
BUDBRONSON: FYI - Silers to LeConte is pretty ambitious.. don't underestimate the elevation gains/losses around Clingmans (especially the north side) as well as the climb up to the Gap from Mt. Collins. Also, don't trust the elevation profiles for virtually all of the A.T. trail maps throughout the GSMNP... very misleading haha! Have a great hike!
swjohnsey
09-28-2012, 10:25
Thank you! I'm a very new hiker and I would like to think that everyone inexperienced or a "2000 miler" would had etiquette and respect for the laws and and fellow hikers!
I have no respect for stupid laws. If you ever get out their I want you to make sure you get at least 200 feet off the trail when you take a dump.
max patch
09-28-2012, 10:31
So many people look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them the absolute worst 80 mile section of the entire AT is the GSMNP.
swjohnsey
09-28-2012, 10:34
My favorite is the first 30 miles of the 100 mile wilderness, pristine rocks, roots and mud.
HooKooDooKu
09-28-2012, 14:02
What are some of the "must-see" shelters/campsites in the Smokies?
IMHO, my favorite campsite is Sheep Pen Gap (#13). It's located on the far side of Gregory Bald. The bald itself is only 3 miles off the AT (hang a left at Doe Knob).
Actually, the trail from Doe Knob to Gregory Bald (and beyond) is an old AT path. Before the path was rerouted to take advantage of Fontana Dam, the trail used to cross Gregory and Parson Bald (but don't bother hiking out to Parson's, its no longer a bald, the trees have returned and there is no view... just some grass and some open area letting you know it once was a bald).
Buffalo Skipper
10-03-2012, 16:45
...Along the AT through the GSMNP, there are no campsites at all, only shelters....
Actually, there is one. Campsite #113 at Birch Spring Gap. It is north of Shuckstack and south of Millie's Ridge. There are 7 designated and prepared camping "pads." Half the camp is on each side of the gap. Very steep terrain, but one interesting aspect of this campsite was that bear lines and campfire are over 50 yards from all but one of the pads; very different from the shelters we saw, where the fire rings and bear lines were right beside the building.
I have no respect for stupid laws. If you ever get out their I want you to make sure you get at least 200 feet off the trail when you take a dump.
I know of no law requiring one to be 200' off the trail to poop ...
swjohnsey
10-03-2012, 17:29
It ain't a law . . . justa rule someone put out like, no campin', no fires.
Alligator
10-03-2012, 17:58
Actually, there is one. Campsite #113 at Birch Spring Gap. It is north of Shuckstack and south of Millie's Ridge. There are 7 designated and prepared camping "pads." Half the camp is on each side of the gap. Very steep terrain, but one interesting aspect of this campsite was that bear lines and campfire are over 50 yards from all but one of the pads; very different from the shelters we saw, where the fire rings and bear lines were right beside the building.Used to be a shelter there, haven't been there since it was removed but might explain the layout.
It ain't a law . . . justa rule someone put out like, no campin', no fires.
Maybe a rule. Certainly it's a concept, an ethic proposed to teach folks to respect the land, the ecology and others using the trail. GSMP might have incorporated it into their regulations as a regulation for those reasons. Nothing bothers me more than seeing where someone has crapped right off the trail without burying their waste or TP. Was that you? Maybe abuse like that is why GSMP feels they need more backcountry rangers.
As for user fees, I feel a lot better about paying them knowing they're going to support something use, and I want supported, as opposed to my income being taxed to pay for weapons systems the pentagon doesn't want, or for wars I don't want, or some bridge to nowhere, or ....
swjohnsey
10-03-2012, 19:05
Maybe a rule. Certainly it's a concept, an ethic proposed to teach folks to respect the land, the ecology and others using the trail. GSMP might have incorporated it into their regulations as a regulation for those reasons. Nothing bothers me more than seeing where someone has crapped right off the trail without burying their waste or TP. Was that you? Maybe abuse like that is why GSMP feels they need more backcountry rangers.
As for user fees, I feel a lot better about paying them knowing they're going to support something use, and I want supported, as opposed to my income being taxed to pay for weapons systems the pentagon doesn't want, or for wars I don't want, or some bridge to nowhere, or ....
If there was TP it wasn't me. Do you pack out your TP? GSMNP doesn't need more rangers, they want more money.
Pedaling Fool
10-03-2012, 19:47
If there was TP it wasn't me. Do you pack out your TP? Hell No. Why ask?
Do you pack out your TP?
I would if I was hiking in any area I deemed as being potentially impacted by failure to do so, or in any of the public lands that require it to protect the environment. Elsewhere, I generally follow the leave no trace ethic.
Not sure why you would bring this up. It doesn't support your basic argument that "stupid laws" don't need to be respected, your recommendation to others to ignore them, and your attempt to deride others by suggesting they follow leave no trace ethics.
swjohnsey
10-04-2012, 08:37
I would if I was hiking in any area I deemed as being potentially impacted by failure to do so, or in any of the public lands that require it to protect the environment. Elsewhere, I generally follow the leave no trace ethic.
Not sure why you would bring this up. It doesn't support your basic argument that "stupid laws" don't need to be respected, your recommendation to others to ignore them, and your attempt to deride others by suggesting they follow leave no trace ethics.
Stupid laws and rules need to be ignored . . . and, generally, they are. If you see me campin' or poopin' 200' off the trail I am lost.
hikerboy57
10-04-2012, 08:47
Who decides which laws are stupid?
Rain Man
10-04-2012, 10:38
Stupid laws and rules need to be ignored . . . and, generally, they are. If you see me campin' or poopin' 200' off the trail I am lost.
Perhaps you might want to review the WB User Agreement, which you agreed to when you joined WhiteBlaze:
4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts ... are forbidden.
Or, are WB rules for lesser mortals than you, also?
Rain Man
.
Drybones
10-04-2012, 10:38
So many people look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them the absolute worst 80 mile section of the entire AT is the GSMNP.
+1.................
swjohnsey
10-04-2012, 10:53
Perhaps you might want to review the WB User Agreement, which you agreed to when you joined WhiteBlaze:
Or, are WB rules for lesser mortals than you, also?
Rain Man
.
Are you the Thought Police?
HooKooDooKu
10-04-2012, 15:33
I know of no law requiring one to be 200' off the trail to poop ...
It ain't a law . . . justa rule someone put out like, no campin', no fires.
Actually, there is a law. Specifically, it is a "Regulation", created by the "delegated authority provided in Title 36, Code of Federal Regulations, Chaper 1, Parts 1 through 7, authorized by Title 16, United States Code, Section 3." (sounds like 'law' to me).
In otherwords, Congress has delegated the Superintendent of the Great Smoky Moutains National Park the authority to create "Regulations" for the park. These regulations can be enforced by law.
The current Compendium of Regulations for the Great Smoky Moutains National Park state in Section 2.14:
In non-developed areas more than a quarter of a mile from
restroom facilities, human body waste must be buried four
(4) to six (6) inches deep in organic soil in an area not
frequented by the public, not visible from trails, campsites
or developed areas, and at least 100 feet from any water
source.
During the winter when organic soil is not exposed, solid
human body waste must be buried 100 yards from any
campsite or established travel route to a depth of 12 inches
in snow whenever possible.
The GSMNP Trail Map attempts to summarize this "law" under "Rules and Regulations" with the statement:
Toilet use must be at least 100 feet
from a campsite or water source and out
of sight of the trail. Human feces must
be buried in a six-inch-deep hole.
So technically, LDog is correct because the "law" doesn't state a specific distance from the trails (under typical situations), just that you have to be "out of sight of the trail". I had missed that point until I put this posting together. I thought the rule was 100' from water, campsites, and trails. But the only regulation as to distance from a trial is 300' from trails when you're going to bury your $#!* in the snow.
Ignoring government stupidity is an American tradition.
Amen. Brother.