View Full Version : what happened to the campmor down bag?
mister krabs
09-30-2012, 19:22
What happened to the campmor down bag? I needed to recommend a cheap down bag to a friend and it's gone.
Alternatives?
Old Hiker
09-30-2012, 19:56
Still some Kelty down bags - $100 to $150. Good luck.
We were told it's not coming back. I don't remember if a reason was supplied.
Tipi Walter
09-30-2012, 21:31
This will save newbs money in the long run. Mediocre gear has to be replaced several times in order to find what really works---but buy high quality right off and you actually save money. Why buy Walmart boots for backpacking and replace them 3 or 4 times when you can just start off with Asolos or La Sportiva and keep them for 5 years?
A cheap bag can be a good choice when you're starting out. You may be thinking about trying out a quilt, but want to start more traditionally with a sleeping bag. While sometimes the money on cheap gear can be wasted when upgrading, a down sleeping bag can usually be resold and recoup half the price or more. As long as you aren't going with a synthetic bag that often have very little resale value, you should be fine. It looks like you've been around here long enough to know what is easy to sell and what is not.
bigcranky
09-30-2012, 22:06
The Kelty Cosmic down bag gets some pretty good reviews, and costs around $100.
The Kelty line replaced the campmor bags. I don't know for a fact but I suspect the cost of keeping the campmor bags in production was not as efficient at just remarketing the Kelty. The 20 degree campmor rectangular bag was a very good product for the the price.
mister krabs
10-01-2012, 06:03
It's for an 11 year old scout, the mantra of "you'll regret not getting a western mountaineering or marmot gas series" is laughable. BPL had a favorable review of the kelty, I'll steer him that way.
The Kelty line replaced the campmor bags. I don't know for a fact but I suspect the cost of keeping the campmor bags in production was not as efficient at just remarketing the Kelty. The 20 degree campmor rectangular bag was a very good product for the the price.
They were around simultaneously for at least two years iirc. Assuming the Campmor was cancelled because the profit margin on the Kelty bag was higher is the only thing that makes sense. That's kind of what you said, and kind of what I was originally planning on saying. There's multiple reasons that could be, and we may never know.
StubbleJumper
10-01-2012, 07:00
Lower end bags are just fine, as long as you understand what you're getting. I bought an inexpensive 0-degree bag this summer, but my expectation is that I'll use it for fewer than 100 nights over the next 10 years. For only 100 nights, it's hardly worth spending $500 or $600 dollars on a really nice WM bag. For the majority of my backpacking in the next 10 years, I expect to go with a 32-degree bag, so that's where I'll put my money.
There are few absolute answers when it comes to gear!
mark schofield
10-01-2012, 07:02
I've had a sub-kilo for 4 years. no complaints.
Tipi Walter
10-01-2012, 08:12
It's for an 11 year old scout, the mantra of "you'll regret not getting a western mountaineering or marmot gas series" is laughable. BPL had a favorable review of the kelty, I'll steer him that way.
Kids always seem to get the "short end of the stick" when it comes to gear. It's as if they are young and small and therefore can get by with butt-cheap gear right at the edge of their comfort zone, like a Kelty bag rated at 20F which stops working at 35F. This of course won't be discovered until out in the field. But heck, they're just kids, they can take it.
I've seen hundreds of kids on backpacking trips in expedition groups forced to use Tarps as their sole shelters. Why not? Cram them together and don't worry about ground water pooling or high winds or snow spindrift or summer bugs because they're kids and they probably need to suffer a little bit as a condition for learning. And then they come into camp and you find out their gear is soaken wet from the night before due to a leaking tarp but who cares? They'll make do somehow.
Instead, get them high quality gear and teach them how to use it. Instead of tarps, a group could have 4 to a North Face VE25 and each could hump the different parts to cut weight---poles, fly, tent body, stakes, etc. Much better than a tarp.
But who wants to spend $600 on a sleeping bag for a kid or $500 for a tent? There's the rub.
yellowsirocco
10-01-2012, 08:14
This will save newbs money in the long run. Mediocre gear has to be replaced several times in order to find what really works---but buy high quality right off and you actually save money. Why buy Walmart boots for backpacking and replace them 3 or 4 times when you can just start off with Asolos or La Sportiva and keep them for 5 years?
The campmor bag was not Walmart level. It was a decent bag at a good price. It won't save newbs money either, they will buy something else cheap. Only stupid thru-hikers who have lots of money and have never hiked before drop the cash for WM/FF as their first bag. Walking lots of miles with weight on your back and sleeping through cold nights is what ends up justifying a nice sleeping bag for normal people.
mister krabs, I was looking for Campmor down bags the other day for the same reason you were, for a recommendation to some new Scouts. So here's some suggestions from a current Scoutmaster who takes boys backpacking on a regular bases.
Look at REI bags on sale. Especially the women's bags, they fit young scouts and are often on sale at a deep discount.
Check Campmor, same as above.
Be aware that these bags will not be comfortable at their rating. Go one rating below what you think you need. A 20* bag is good for most of the year around here. When it gets colder, like January and February when we camp outside you can use a cheaper bag and layer the down bag over it.
I wouldn't recommend a Scout pay much more than $125 for a down bag. It's likely that the boy won't be using it for more than a few years either because he leaves scouts, he outgrows the bag, or he wants to upgrade for a high adventure trip like Philmont.
Tipi Walter
10-01-2012, 08:39
Only stupid thru-hikers who have lots of money and have never hiked before drop the cash for WM/FF as their first bag.
I don't understand this quote. Many thruhikers on the AT that I've seen lately are carrying lightweight Western Mountaineering bags like the Ultralite or the Highlite or the Megalite as their first bag. Why? Because they are super light and super warm---850+ fill makes all the difference. And because word gets around. My whole point is, first time buyers would be better off getting a high quality down bag right off the bat and thereby saving themselves the inevitable pining for a WM bag which will happen if they continue to backpack.
It's not a class-warfare kind of thing---it's about staying toasty warm on cold winter nights with something incredibly light. A sleeping bag is the most important item when it comes to winter backpacking, so go ahead and get the best. If you don't now you will later. But if you're only going out on one trip in a lifetime, well, a rolled up carpet or a couple wool army blankets or a couple Coleman bags from Walmart will work. I'm talking about newbs who are committed to a life outdoors. Newbs-in-poverty will use whatever they can get---an Army feather bag comes to mind---but they'll hear about "those high quality down bags" and will eventually, inevitably, get one.
The neat thing about backpacking is this---it's not like cars where the best like a Ferrari will cost you $250,000 to $300,000. The best backpacking gear is comparably cheap.
Yah. The days of a rolled up blanket cuz that is what you had are over. Tipi- look at some of your old pics.
Anyone notice campmor has gone more label conscious?
This will save newbs money in the long run. Mediocre gear has to be replaced several times in order to find what really works---but buy high quality right off and you actually save money. Why buy Walmart boots for backpacking and replace them 3 or 4 times when you can just start off with Asolos or La Sportiva and keep them for 5 years?
That would make sense if it were true.
mister krabs
10-01-2012, 10:12
Thanks all, I'm familiar with the campmor bags and their effectiveness and with kids and their needs. I have both a campmor and a kid. I usually use the campmor bag and let the kid use my lafuma 950 pro (750 down 15 degree rating) The campmor bag has kept me warm with heavy frost on the surface of it, the lafuma is a true 20* bag. I'm looking for a 3+ season bag for georgia use, and the campmor has been perfectly adequate for my needs. I know that it would be perfectly adequate for the use that this scout is likely to see. The kelty looks to be of similar functionality.
Kids get cheap gear because they destroy everything they touch. Just this past weekend in the nantahala NF I was watching my pretty darn experienced 10 year old son take the tent down, something that we had done together dozens of times. I had to make sure that he looked at what he was doing as he folded the poles. Had to tell him twice so that he didn't bend the pole by accident. Looking the other way while they do things is something that kids just do, like not cleaning your muddy feet when you get into the bag or sleeping with your pocket knife. This combined with the limited number of bag nights that a busy kid gets makes a 125$ sleeping bag the exact right thing. I expect it to last until he's old enough to buy his own.
mister krabs
10-01-2012, 10:35
Instead, get them high quality gear and teach them how to use it. Instead of tarps, a group could have 4 to a North Face VE25 and each could hump the different parts to cut weight---poles, fly, tent body, stakes, etc. Much better than a tarp.
But who wants to spend $600 on a sleeping bag for a kid or $500 for a tent? There's the rub.
That's the thing Tipi, I'm not into getting cheap garbage gear. I want something that will be "good enough" to allow them to safely and comfortably have the fun and learn the lessons that a good scouting experience can provide. A $100 campmor (or kelty or REI) down bag is good enough for me, it will be good enough for them. Are there compromises? Absolutely, but I make them with knowledge of what they are. An alps extreme outfitter would get them a bomb-proof tent at 90 percent of the functionality with almost identical specs of the NF you cite (it lacks one pole and pole sleeves, otherwise identical room, pole size, fabric specs), but at 30% of the cost. It's a matter of appropriateness, making intelligent compromises that adequately address risk and balance budget for a given activity.
Tipi Walter
10-01-2012, 11:16
That would make sense if it were true.
Have you ever spent years backpacking in Walmart boots? They will nickle and dime you as they routinely disintegrate. They're inexpensive of course, and they sure look great up on the shelf all new and serious looking but out in the wild it's a different story. The only backpacking boot I ever used that caused pronation was a Walmart boot. Now I know better than to waste my money.
Have you ever spent years backpacking in Walmart boots? They will nickle and dime you as they routinely disintegrate. They're inexpensive of course, and they sure look great up on the shelf all new and serious looking but out in the wild it's a different story. The only backpacking boot I ever used that caused pronation was a Walmart boot. Now I know better than to waste my money.
i cant read minds, but my thought was he was doubting the claim that asolos will last 5 or 6 years. i kind of doubt it as well.
Tipi Walter
10-01-2012, 11:33
i cant read minds, but my thought was he was doubting the claim that asolos will last 5 or 6 years. i kind of doubt it as well.
They'll sure last longer than Walmart boots. My Asolo 520's are full leather and have lasted me almost 3 years of hard use. My other Asolo FSN 95's or Fugitives have lasted many trips and many miles and I am very hard on boots. I'd go thru a Walmart boot in 3 months vs 2 years for Asolo or Limmer.
max patch
10-01-2012, 11:34
I bet more people have thru'd using a 20 degree campmor bag than any other one. Perfect bag for the 3 season hiking that most people do.
And as long as I'm speculating I'd guess that TNF Cats Meow is number 2.
Tipi Walter
10-01-2012, 11:57
I bet more people have thru'd using a 20 degree campmor bag than any other one. Perfect bag for the 3 season hiking that most people do.
And as long as I'm speculating I'd guess that TNF Cats Meow is number 2.
Since you mention North Face, let's talk about their down products. They used to make the best down bags in the 1970's---they were known for their down bags and in fact their top of the line down bag was called the North Face. Knowing their reputation I bought their Ibex bag back in 1980 and it was their second cold-rated bag at -10F. That bag kept me alive for 20 winters.
Fast forward to the new millenium. I have a North Face Nupste down jacket and it is seriously underfilled with the baffles having more fabric than down. My backpacking partner Little Mitten needed a winter down bag and so she got a NF Blue Igloo rated at 20F. Funny thing is, at 30F she tossed and turned all night and was cold. Once again, underfilled. We immediately returned it to Campmor. What have I learned? Don't get any down products from North Face.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2002-2004/Citico-Wilderness-2002/i-3ff2PLH/0/O/trip-54.jpg
Here's a picture of Little Mitten with her NF down bag along the banks of Bald River in TN.
The basic point is---know the fill power (is it 550? 600? 750? 850+?) and most important---know how many ounces of down is in the product. This is the number most companies like to hide. For instance, a good subzero winter bag will have around 35 ozs of quality fill in the 800 range. Maybe even 900. If you can easily find this number then you know the company is bonafide.
Feral Bill
10-01-2012, 12:10
Kids get cheap gear because they destroy everything they touch.
I'll remember forever the sight of two kids on a snow camping trip using one of my Thermarests as a toboggan. Just a couple weeks ago my son returned a tarp with one corner badly abraded from being held down on rocks by other rocks, and my hiking staff bent. Kids do need decent gear, giving them top of the line is just foolish.
Kelty Cosmic Down 20 worked for my thru-attempt, I never had a cold night down to 30. I bought it on sale for 70. It does look girly. It's just over 2 pounds. Not much of a toe box.
Kelty Cosmic Down 20 worked for my thru-attempt, I never had a cold night down to 30. I bought it on sale for 70. It does look girly. It's just over 2 pounds. Not much of a toe box.
i have the 40 degree one myself, it does look kind of girly. ive used it to a few degrees below 40 and lived to tell. not sure i'd want to do that every night for an extended period of time but its fine for a weekend.
mister krabs
10-01-2012, 13:24
I'll remember forever the sight of two kids on a snow camping trip using one of my Thermarests as a toboggan. Just a couple weeks ago my son returned a tarp with one corner badly abraded from being held down on rocks by other rocks, and my hiking staff bent. Kids do need decent gear, giving them top of the line is just foolish.
Agreed, A blue foam mat, a $125 down bag, a golite jam and an alps mountaineering 2 man 5 lb tent will get a kid out there and hopefully back safely without breaking their back or the bank for most things that they will do in 3 1/2 seasons here in GA. This is exactly the setup that I'm recommending to the boys who will be crossing over with my son into scouts.
Agreed, A blue foam mat, a $125 down bag, a golite jam and an alps mountaineering 2 man 5 lb tent will get a kid out there and hopefully back safely without breaking their back or the bank for most things that they will do in 3 1/2 seasons here in GA. This is exactly the setup that I'm recommending to the boys who will be crossing over with my son into scouts.
other than the fact that i only have a 1 man tent youve practically described the gear i use all the time with no problems.
mister krabs
10-01-2012, 13:35
other than the fact that i only have a 1 man tent youve practically described the gear i use all the time with no problems.
Scouts have to use two man tents and share. It's some sort of rule.
Scouts have to use two man tents and share. It's some sort of rule.
No it's not. Only while at Philmont.
mister krabs
10-01-2012, 19:11
No it's not. Only while at Philmont.
Good to know.
The company that made the Campmor down bag is no longer in business. Have to say I really miss that bag-it was a great value. There are several suggestions though. Kelty makes a good inexpensive down bags. Take a look at:
Kelty Light Year 20 Degree Down Sleeping Bag Regular
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43167Kelty Light Year 20 Degree Down Sleeping Bag Long
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43168?cm_vc=PDPZ2Kelty Coromell 0 Degree Down Sleeping Bag Regular
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43177
Kelty Cosmic 0 Degree Down Sleeping Bag Longhttp://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43184Kelty Cosmic 0 Degree Down Sleeping Bag
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43183
Regular
mister krabs
10-02-2012, 17:33
Thanks for the info Campmor!
MuddyWaters
10-04-2012, 19:52
the problem with the cheap bags is the fabrics are not water repellent. It will wet out easy.
Dicks Sporting goods sells a bag, the Sierra Designs Solar 20 Down, for about $110, it weighs 2.5 lbs. Dicks is the only outlet for this bag. It is very lofty for a 600 fp bag.
Sierra designs ridgerunner 30 is $110 at campmor. It is an EN tested bag, 27 lower limit, 37 comfort that weighs 2lb 2oz. Hard to beat.
Another solution to expensive gear is the used market. I've purchased most of my gear (that I didn't make) from sellers right here. It takes a little time, but I've never been gypped. (not that it couldn't happen. Caveat Emptor). Plus, If you don't like it, resell it.
Tepee's rant on "only the best will do" is typical of a sizeable percent of members here. To each his own and hike your own hike, I say.
I might add, that the very best brands seem to get only small discounts. That's kind of how I figure out which brands are "really the best".
About bag temperatures rating: I learned a long time ago that "figures lie and liars figure" I just look for recommendations from names I recognize.
Tipi Walter
10-05-2012, 08:58
Another solution to expensive gear is the used market. I've purchased most of my gear (that I didn't make) from sellers right here. It takes a little time, but I've never been gypped. (not that it couldn't happen. Caveat Emptor). Plus, If you don't like it, resell it.
Tepee's rant on "only the best will do" is typical of a sizeable percent of members here. To each his own and hike your own hike, I say.
I might add, that the very best brands seem to get only small discounts. That's kind of how I figure out which brands are "really the best".
About bag temperatures rating: I learned a long time ago that "figures lie and liars figure" I just look for recommendations from names I recognize.
Our 'only the best will do' rants are directed towards outdoor enthusiasts who want to save money in the long run. EX: You decide to spend a winter camping so you invest in a $400 0F rated Marmot down bag. Well, you find out that occasionally you get -10F or -15F on some of your nights out. To continue safely you need to upgrade to a -15F by Western Mountaineering or something equivalent. You would have saved yourself $400 right off the bat by going up a level in quality and rating.
Newbs out for only one night a year can use a cardboard box with a rolled up carpet. They would be idiots to pay $600 or $700 for a bag or a tent. But for those committed to being out, get the best. Don't take my word for it, listen to Skurka---
Andrew Skurka July 18, 2012 at 9:27 am # (http://andrewskurka.com/2012/stupid-light-not-always-right-or-better/#comment-3992)
“Stupid cheap” is a good principal to live by, beyond your backpacking purchases too. In the long term it’s better to buy quality — it’s more cost-effective and you’ll be happier — hence, for example, my saving up to recently buy Wusthof Classic Ikon knives and Cuisinart cookware — I won’t have to buy new knives or new pots until I’m almost dead!
This quote is from---(scroll down to the comment section to find it)
http://andrewskurka.com/2012/stupid-light-not-always-right-or-better/
"buy the best" has kept a lot of people out of the sport.
"best" is based partly on "need" and "need" is something determined by each individual. If "buy the best" were some universal truism, we'd have a very boring economy.
I've got a bunch of Campmor bags. They see a lot of use. No complaints. Sorry that they aren't available anymore.
max patch
10-05-2012, 11:36
I'm glad I didnt "buy the best" the first time I bought my road bike, mountain bike, inline skates, golf clubs, sports car, etc. What I have for those sports is nowhere near top of the line but are perfectly suited for the use I give them.
Tipi Walter
10-05-2012, 11:58
I'm glad I didnt "buy the best" the first time I bought my road bike, mountain bike, inline skates, golf clubs, sports car, etc. What I have for those sports is nowhere near top of the line but are perfectly suited for the use I give them.
When it comes to sleeping bags, the best is the warmest (850+) and the lightest. It's what we're looking for, right? Too bad it's so expensive, but look at other things in life. A good hunting dog can cost around $3,500 to $7,000. A set of 6 iron Honma golf clubs cost $2,645. A Ferrari costs $200,000 if you're lucky. The best winter sleeping bag? Around $700 or $800. Not cheap but cheap when compared to how many nights it will keep you alive and not indoors paying rent or a mortgage---for those wanting to live out permanently it's a good investment. Remember, there are hordes of idiots out there who are willing to pay close to $400 for the new iPhone5 with the accessories. Add the contract and you're talking about around a $1,000.
I know, I know, backpacking is a "sport" and gathers in twice-a-year types and the weekenders who will never pay $700 for a sleeping bag no matter what. They pride themselves on finding a 10 year old WM down bag on eBay for $100 with squashed loft cuz it's been in a stuff sac for years and is stained with bodily fluids. But what a deal!
I know, I know, backpacking is a "sport" and gathers in twice-a-year types and the weekenders who will never pay $700 for a sleeping bag no matter what. They pride themselves on finding a 10 year old WM down bag on eBay for $100 with squashed loft cuz it's been in a stuff sac for years and is stained with bodily fluids. But what a deal!
That's the extreme. If a person is on a budget, a Kelty Cosmic Down bag at $100 or so is a good bag esp for the price.
I'd rather see a person out there getting bag nights and enjoying themselves rather than saving their pennies and NOT getting out there.
Not everyone has the disposable income to spend $400 on a WM bag.
More important to get out there and enjoy themselves.
Isn't it great there is gear that a person can use that is good, solid and not overly expensive?
When it comes to sleeping bags, the best is the warmest (850+) and the lightest.
I believe this is the second time in as many days that you've mentioned lightweight gear. I'm expecting a couple threads from you about wool bed rolls and canvas tents to balance this out.
Tipi Walter
10-05-2012, 19:57
I believe this is the second time in as many days that you've mentioned lightweight gear. I'm expecting a couple threads from you about wool bed rolls and canvas tents to balance this out.
Thanks for reminding me. I installed software to turn off the computer if the word "l---t" is used.
camper1121
10-09-2012, 09:36
The Campmor bags were made by Moonstone and they went out of business.
thetentman
10-09-2012, 09:55
It did not make sense to continue with the Campmor Down bags. The price of down has skyrocketed upwards and is projected to rise more and so the Campmor Down bags were discontinued.