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jburgasser
10-01-2012, 08:49
I've been following a SOBO thread elsewhere whose latest post indicated the their boots (1,100 miles mind you) had fallen apart and they returned them at an REI because of REI's lifetime warranty policy. The picture included in the post shows the sole completely seperated from the upper from the toe of one boot to about midway back. Shouldn't 1,100 miles be considered "lifetime" for a pair of boots? It just seems that one could expect a pair of boots to fall apart after 1,100 miles or at least simply need to be replaced after that long. Does this sound to anyone else like REI is being taken advantage of?

The person said the boots were replaced with new of the same brand and a tent and sleeping bag were also replaced and the person was given $50 back?!?! What about paying for your own gear???

I personally think REI and LL Bean would sell just as much merchandise if they cancelled their lifetime gaurantee policy. They really open themselves up to being taken advantage of:confused:.

Ickybod

Wise Old Owl
10-01-2012, 09:04
Several years ago there was a thread, where folks discussed that they needed to replace their boots two times when doing the entire trail...

I used to buy a new new balance sneaker every year just for section hiking.

Under the pricing structure - they do it for good customer service - and yes a few take advantage of it. But REI can turn some of it into rental and "midnight member only sale"

Look at it in a different light, someone in my circle of freinds asked "Why when you go to Walmart and buy that cheap junk, do you deserve a Coustomer Return Counter?"

jburgasser
10-01-2012, 09:09
Several years ago there was a thread, where folks discussed that they needed to replace their boots two times when doing the entire trail...

I understand needing to replace your boots midway through a...thru. But I don't think you should expect to get them for free. Boots wear out. Shouldn't one be expected to buy a new pair as opposed to replacing them free of charge because they are supposed to last one's lifetime?

Ickybod

FlyPaper
10-01-2012, 09:22
I've been following a SOBO thread elsewhere whose latest post indicated the their boots (1,100 miles mind you) had fallen apart and they returned them at an REI because of REI's lifetime warranty policy. The picture included in the post shows the sole completely seperated from the upper from the toe of one boot to about midway back. Shouldn't 1,100 miles be considered "lifetime" for a pair of boots? It just seems that one could expect a pair of boots to fall apart after 1,100 miles or at least simply need to be replaced after that long. Does this sound to anyone else like REI is being taken advantage of?

The person said the boots were replaced with new of the same brand and a tent and sleeping bag were also replaced and the person was given $50 back?!?! What about paying for your own gear???

I personally think REI and LL Bean would sell just as much merchandise if they cancelled their lifetime gaurantee policy. They really open themselves up to being taken advantage of:confused:.

Ickybod

I think this is just a business trade off. Ultimately, people like this are being subsidized by the rest of us that don't take advantage of a generous return policy. I believe REI has a "lifetime return policy", which means that if you're not satisfied you can return items. A "lifetime warranty" implies a promise/expectation that items will last for life, where as a "lifetime return" policy lets you decide if you think you got what you paid for and should expect. From a legal sense, I don't suppose there is much difference. From a moral sense, well, I don't know how a grown man could return boots with 1100 miles on them and look the REI customer service rep in the eye.

tdoczi
10-01-2012, 09:27
I think this is just a business trade off. Ultimately, people like this are being subsidized by the rest of us that don't take advantage of a generous return policy. I believe REI has a "lifetime return policy", which means that if you're not satisfied you can return items. A "lifetime warranty" implies a promise/expectation that items will last for life, where as a "lifetime return" policy lets you decide if you think you got what you paid for and should expect. From a legal sense, I don't suppose there is much difference. From a moral sense, well, I don't know how a grown man could return boots with 1100 miles on them and look the REI customer service rep in the eye.

from the ones ive talked to the past few years its become pretty standard thru hiker rpactice to buy shoes at rei and then get them replaced for free all the way up the trail. a dumb policy, but if rei wants to do it, thats their business.

the best similar thing i heard lately was from a thru who had a seemingly legit complaint about his solomon's falling apart prematurely. he called the company and they sent him a replacement pair. the funny thing is they didnt ask for the old one's back, a picture of them, a receipt from the point of purchase, nada. it would seem to imply that if anyone just called solomon with a story about a pair of shoes that fell apart after a few hundred miles of thru hiking, theyd receive a brand new pair for free, no questions asked.

Sarcasm the elf
10-01-2012, 09:41
Makes me wish that REI sold car tires and motor oil...

Packeagle
10-01-2012, 09:42
It really is tough. Some people get out to hike so infrequently that a year down the road they may only have a 100 miles on a pair of boots. So a time limit on the warranty would be tough.

I had a friend who I hiked Isle Royale with. We hiked 135 miles on the trip and the soles of our boots were in rough shape from walking on the rocky ridges. His gortex liner leaked the first rain about 3 days in. He bought the boots just for the trip. He flipped back and forth on returning them the whole ride home. He returned them to REI for a refund. 1/10 th the miles of your example but their policy is if you are not satisfied with the product to return it. On a thru maybe 1,000 miles was his/her first available opportunity.

Is it abused? yes. Are we paying more because of it? yes. Do I shop there? sometimes. Its REIs policy to change. If you don't agree with it vote with your wallet and buy from another company who's policy you agree with.

Alleghanian Orogeny
10-01-2012, 09:58
Makes me wish that REI sold car tires and motor oil...

In the very early days of NASCAR racing, it was routine to run street tires purchased from Sears & Roebuck, who had a generous return policy. Some teams would purchase sets of tires during the week, run them on weekends, and return them on Monday.

Sears Craftsman hand tools also had a lifetime warranty. A neighbor of mine returned a broken 1/2" drive ratchet handle, some 30 years old, which was beaten all to h##l, and requested a free replacement. The only comment he got from the salesman was "we also sell hammers, you know".

So few purchasers actually request performance under lifetime guarantees that it's an entirely nominal cost of doing business. Me, personally, I'd never hold REI or any other seller to a lifetime guarantee if I had gotten reasonable wear out of an item. I don't mind paying for good equipment, and I expect good service out of it. If I've gotten that, I'm good.

AO

jakedatc
10-01-2012, 09:59
There was definitely someone's thru-hike sleeping bag at this weekend garage sale.... smelled like death warmed over... couldn't put it back in the bag fast enough.

and yep.. prices stay closer to MSRP, which if you haven't seen the "at cost" price... pretty big markup on gear especially, clothing a little less so.

yellowsirocco
10-01-2012, 10:01
If REI dropped their return policy they would have to lower their prices also. I buy a lot of stuff there, but it is mostly because they will replace it.

Blissful
10-01-2012, 10:02
On a thru maybe 1,000 miles was his/her first available opportunity.

.. Baloney. This is just a prime example of the thru hiker gimmee mentality that has erupted on the trail and observed first hand. It's sad how the trail culture is now hikers with hands extended, looking for freebies, just because they are on a hike. Sort of what's going on in our nation now.

tdoczi
10-01-2012, 10:19
Makes me wish that REI sold car tires and motor oil...

its not just REI. home depot used to accept returns of partially used cans of paint and worn paintbrushes. not sure they do anymore, but you might actually find an auto supply store that takes back motor oil. i would not be the least bit surprised.

STICK
10-01-2012, 11:45
REI doesn't sell my brand...so I guess I am stuck paying for mine... There are a few thing I still buy from REI, but not much anymore. I have a few bigger items, such as a sleeping pad and trekking poles from them because of their warranty, but I don't even use the poles and the sleeping pad is no longer made anyway...

mikec
10-01-2012, 11:47
I was in retail for 20 years and found that there are always a few people that want to take advantage of the system. Sure, REI and Bean will take anything back at anytime. But the rest of us pay for it in terms of higher prices. I was going to post what I really think of people that abuse return policies but I am certain that my post would be removed.

Rasty
10-01-2012, 11:54
Every time I see this I wonder if I could take back my 1986 Perception Dancer Kayak for a full refund. It cost $750 in 86' and is very used. Of course it's only a thought as I have a conscience.

Jim Adams
10-01-2012, 12:03
Returning worn out gear is just irresponsible. If it breaks or is defective that is fine but if you wore it out then you have used it's entire service life. Grow up and stop being an ass and accept a little responsibility. You are not sponsored by REI to destroy their gear.

geek

10-K
10-01-2012, 12:10
Never in a million years would I buy something, wear it out, and return it for a new one. I do not understand that mindset.

Sarcasm the elf
10-01-2012, 12:11
Every time I see this I wonder if I could take back my 1986 Perception Dancer Kayak for a full refund. It cost $750 in 86' and is very used. Of course it's only a thought as I have a conscience.Yeah, I've got one of those nagging consciences also, apparently I could have saved a lot of money on boots and sleeping bags if I was just more of a mild sociopath.

Feral Bill
10-01-2012, 12:13
Anyone who has not been to an REI scratch and dent sale should go. It is a real eye opener in this regard. It's also a chance to score some real deals.

Namaste
10-01-2012, 12:14
I was in retail for 20 years and found that there are always a few people that want to take advantage of the system. Sure, REI and Bean will take anything back at anytime. But the rest of us pay for it in terms of higher prices. I was going to post what I really think of people that abuse return policies but I am certain that my post would be removed.

I, too, spent many years working in retail and in customer service so I know EXACTLY what you are thinking about taking advantage. This is just another case.

Sarcasm the elf
10-01-2012, 12:16
Just for fun, someone should try to resupply their thru hike by buying a dozen Mountain House meals from REI and then constantly demanding that the company exchange the empty packages for new ones...

jburgasser
10-01-2012, 12:38
a few people that want to take advantage of the system... I was going to post what I really think of people that abuse return policies

The abuse of return policies is what my original post is about. I really like REI (and LL Bean) and I just don't like to see this happen to good companies like these two.

Ickybod

silverscuba22
10-01-2012, 13:07
Just for fun, someone should try to resupply their thru hike by buying a dozen Mountain House meals from REI and then constantly demanding that the company exchange the empty packages for new ones...


LOL dont give them ideas Sarcasm !!!!

-SEEKER-
10-01-2012, 13:34
Interesting thread. I wouldn't have the balls to do that. We just had an REI open in our neighborhood. They are having a grand opening this weekend where the first 200 people in the door each day get a free Camelback water bottle. Now I might do that. I'm wondering if people will camp outside the store to get one!?

malowitz
10-01-2012, 13:40
I think a return in the case of 1,000 miles traveled is very disingenous. I returned 1 pair of my Merrell Moab Ventilators during my hike because they clearly had a mnaufacturing defect and tore along a stiched seam in less than 2 miles of use.

Darn Tough socks have a lifetime warranty. After I wore through the heals of one pair, I could have returned them. I didn't becuase I felt they'd already lasted a lifetime and I was quite satisfied.

Lone Wolf
10-01-2012, 13:48
you gotta be a low-life scumbag to do that

peakbagger
10-01-2012, 13:54
LL Bean reportedly has done the anlysis frequently on the cost versus loss of offering a lifetime warranty, they keep doing it as it ends up that the PR is apparently worth more than the cost. At one point they did keep track of people who returned large volumes of merchandise. There are folks who frequent yard sales and anytime they find a LLbeans tag on old clothes, they buy it and then return it to get store credit.

I have heard that much of the gear that is returned gets charged back to the original manfacturer. The manufacturer eats it as they want to keep doing business with beans.

The lifetime guarantee apparently is one of the reasons you wont find the latest and greatest ultra lightweight gear at Beans and other retailers with the same guarantee.

FlyPaper
10-01-2012, 13:58
. Baloney. This is just a prime example of the thru hiker gimmee mentality that has erupted on the trail and observed first hand. It's sad how the trail culture is now hikers with hands extended, looking for freebies, just because they are on a hike. Sort of what's going on in our nation now.

I stayed at the same shelter as a thru-hiker who boasted about his plan to do just that: return his worn out boots for new ones as often as needed to finish his hike. There was an awkward silence, but to my shame I said nothing. Next time I'm going to say something.

thetentman
10-01-2012, 14:22
Oh yes they are taking advantage of REI. The policy is there for customers who actually have defective products but weasels are weasels and always will be. It speaks to their character and perhaps their poor upbringing.

Nutbrown
10-01-2012, 14:32
Just for fun, someone should try to resupply their thru hike by buying a dozen Mountain House meals from REI and then constantly demanding that the company exchange the empty packages for new ones...

The belly ache would be punishment enough for that!

atraildreamer
10-01-2012, 14:55
... but you might actually find an auto supply store that takes back motor oil. i would not be the least bit surprised.

Auto Zone will take used motor oil and recycle it. My mechanic uses it to heat his shop. Neither will pay you anything for it! :(

But seriously, a lot of the outdoor equipment and footwear is made overseas and doesn't cost that much to manufacture. I read somewhere that a pair of sneakers costs about $3-4 to manufacture. Check out what they charge for them. :mad: Many people, especially impressionable teens, equate high price with quality and/or "coolness", and want the pricier stuff as a status symbol (Try to get a teen to wear a pair of Payless shoes and watch the reaction! :eek: ). Many sellers are happy to charge whatever the market will bear. (I am not accusing REI of this!) If a store gets, for example, $150 for a pair of $4 footwear, what's the big deal to them if they have to replace them? :confused: Their profit drops from $146 to $142. Not too shabby! :-?

SassyWindsor
10-01-2012, 15:07
. Baloney. This is just a prime example of the thru hiker gimmee mentality that has erupted on the trail and observed first hand. It's sad how the trail culture is now hikers with hands extended, looking for freebies, just because they are on a hike. Sort of what's going on in our nation now.


Correct, I agree totally

Driver8
10-01-2012, 15:49
I think a return in the case of 1,000 miles traveled is very disingenous. I returned 1 pair of my Merrell Moab Ventilators during my hike because they clearly had a mnaufacturing defect and tore along a stiched seam in less than 2 miles of use.

Darn Tough socks have a lifetime warranty. After I wore through the heals of one pair, I could have returned them. I didn't becuase I felt they'd already lasted a lifetime and I was quite satisfied.

I've returned two things to REI b/c of dissatisfaction, one other unused b/c I didn't need it. The first return was a pair of Microspikes which broke on my second hike with them. When I returned them - April of last year, right after an early spring hike that had late monorail on a north-facing slope - there were none in stock to trade out. Took the money at the time, went back and bought new spikes for this past winter season - came in handy on a couple of hikes. I also had a TP snap awfully easy when caught in between two rocks on a local trail, about 50-100 miles after purchase. Replaced with no questions asked. The current replacements have several hundred miles on them, and one of them was severely bent on the Lion Head trail on Washington this past July. A pic of it follows. No way I'm trading that guy back in - I've gotten great usage from the two of them and consider them combat vets. Gotta honor that.

17631

The one thing I returned unopened and unused was a water filter. I imagine that made its way right back onto the shelf.

Don H
10-01-2012, 16:42
I met a hiker who bragged about returning all his winter gear to REI and exchanging it for summer gear. He quit in VA but I bet he took all his gear back, not because it was defective but because he was done with it.

Starchild
10-01-2012, 17:54
When I bought my first set of hiking boots I was told get a good pair and I will have them for the rest of my life. This is me is the standard - buy something good and it should last. And for that first pair I still have them 20 yrs later, though I rarely wear them. I would not consider returning them 20 yrs later, they served me well and I could still use them.

That said the thru hike is a interesting and unique thing on its own and also does challenged the basic warrantee. Many shoe manufactures will warrantee there shoes with a 1 year or other time sensitive standard, if this is the standard they use, yes they should take it back through REI or whoever as they have set the standards - this one is a no brainer. But for the rest, does using their stuff daily in a thru hike qualify for replacement...

I really need to leave that up to the person and where they are in life. If they feel they didn't get the duration they expected I am not to judge. What about people taking advantage, I feel we all do, it may not be REI but perhaps a friend who can get us a discount or relative that can get us out of a ticket - that is part of being human as well as when we decide that even though we can get a discount we forgo it.

As for REI I buy stuff from them because I need it to be right, and will return stuff to them if it is not. It is because if their policy to allow this that they are the one's I go to even if they have a higher price. I for one am very glad that they allow people to return shoes they have worn out.

Drybones
10-01-2012, 18:07
I think a return in the case of 1,000 miles traveled is very disingenous. I returned 1 pair of my Merrell Moab Ventilators during my hike because they clearly had a mnaufacturing defect and tore along a stiched seam in less than 2 miles of use.

Darn Tough socks have a lifetime warranty. After I wore through the heals of one pair, I could have returned them. I didn't becuase I felt they'd already lasted a lifetime and I was quite satisfied.

To me there is difference between Darn Tough and REI. REI is a return policy, Darn Tough is a guarantee. I'd have problems returning the socks. Most manufacturers know thier product will not last a lifetime but it will sell enough product to compensate for the few that do get returned. Bought a grill with a brass burner, burner had a 75 year warranty, lasted about 8 years, company was then out of business.

Drybones
10-01-2012, 18:09
I met a hiker who bragged about returning all his winter gear to REI and exchanging it for summer gear. He quit in VA but I bet he took all his gear back, not because it was defective but because he was done with it.

"Ill gotten gain takes away the life of its possessor".

bfayer
10-01-2012, 18:36
"Ill gotten gain takes away the life of its possessor".

So true. Like my Grandfather would say "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should"

StubbleJumper
10-01-2012, 19:19
I guess I'm in the minority here. I returned two pairs of Montrails this year and I sleep quite well at night because they did not meet my expectations of 500 miles for a pair of trail runners. A seam on the first pair tore after about 100 miles, so I exchanged them. The soles delaminated on the second pair after about 200 miles, so I returned them. I ended up getting 300 miles of hiking for free, but I'm quite okay with that because I'd be seriously unhappy about spending $109 and getting only 300 miles use.

If I had gotten something closer to my 500 mile expectation, I would have just paid for a new pair out of pocket.

canoe
10-01-2012, 19:47
I agree its wrong to expect a full refund for gear that was fully used. But ...
1. I read that we are paying a higher price because of what they are doing. NOT REI is no higher that any other priceing.
2. On most products there is a 100% mark up. So they are not losing all that much money
3. The guarantee is a marketing technique that draws many more customers into the store to buy. Way to more honest customers than low lifes. So REI is not suffering because of a hand full of peckerwoods.
4 REI is a company of integrity. They keep there word. Therefore they will keep my business.

MuddyWaters
10-01-2012, 20:03
Think of it this way. REI charges full blown price usually, because they provide that service and peace of mind.
You are buying a product, and an unlimited satisfaction guarantee. Not just a warrantee.
When you buy discount, all you get is the product.
Often you can purchase the same item for considerably less elsewhere.
Its their policy, it seems to work well for them, and a few other companies.

Sarcasm the elf
10-01-2012, 21:08
I guess I'm in the minority here. I returned two pairs of Montrails this year and I sleep quite well at night because they did not meet my expectations of 500 miles for a pair of trail runners. A seam on the first pair tore after about 100 miles, so I exchanged them. The soles delaminated on the second pair after about 200 miles, so I returned them. I ended up getting 300 miles of hiking for free, but I'm quite okay with that because I'd be seriously unhappy about spending $109 and getting only 300 miles use.

If I had gotten something closer to my 500 mile expectation, I would have just paid for a new pair out of pocket.

I don't think there's much wrong with exchanging a pair of trail runners that started to fall apart after 100 miles, that's what the return policy is for. Now if you had hiked in them from Maine to Connecticut and then returned them because of wear and tear, that would be a different story.

Odd Man Out
10-01-2012, 23:47
I walked into a New Balance store with my daughter to get her some running shoes. The sales rep asked how I liked my NB shoes (which I got at Sears a few weeks earlier). I said they were great, but that Sears didn't have the right size. I got some that were a half size small thinking they would be ok, but they were not breaking in as much as I had hoped. The sales rep went in the back and got me the right size and took mine in exchange. I reminded her I didn't even buy them at this store and had worn them for a few weeks, but she said it was OK, NB wanted me to be happy. (I think they are the ones on my avatar picture).

Also I called Merrill once and asked where I could buy Merrill shoelaces and instead they just sent me a pair for free.

In both cases I don't know if they had a exchange/replacement policy. But in both cases I didn't ask for anything, so I was wasn't feeling guilty (and was happy).

Carl Calson
10-01-2012, 23:50
rei wouldn't offer it if it didn't make sense to them financially. i'm sure they're well aware of what people are doing and how it affects their business. most likely they resell the returned gear and still turn a profit at their attic sales. i don't see what everyone's getting so worked up about, honestly. if you don't want to take advantage of the system, fine, but other people might not have the money to replace used gear. personally, i buy alot of stuff from rei because their return policy is so good. do i take advantage of it? in my opinion, no. they're making tons of money off of me by charging top dollar for most of their gear, which i normally would have bought elsewhere if it wasn't for their return policy. have i heard stories about other people returning ruined boots after 3 years? yes.

this is a non-issue

Velvet Gooch
10-02-2012, 06:57
Corporations (yes, I realize REI is a co-op) are amoral, so too are a few of their customers. The vast majority of customers will never wear out or return gear. REI still wins

Lyle
10-02-2012, 07:11
I assume that REI and Bean have determined that they make more money by the increased sales they enjoy as a result of this guarantee and reputation that they have nurtured than they loose by accepting clearly abusive returns by cheapskates. I still think MOST folks have a conscience. I also try to impose one through conversation on those that don't when I get a chance.

Items do wear out and need replacement - not a satisfaction guarantee issue.

jburgasser
10-02-2012, 07:50
I guess I'm in the minority here. I returned two pairs of Montrails...because they did not meet my expectations of 500 miles for a pair of trail runners. A seam on the first pair tore after about 100 miles, so I exchanged them. The soles delaminated on the second pair after about 200 miles, so I returned them. If I had gotten something closer to my 500 mile expectation, I would have just paid for a new pair out of pocket.

You are in the right I would say. Shoes should last for more than 100 miles and 200 miles. But if a sole peels off the upper after 1,000 miles? I would say those boots have lived their life and it is time to buy new ones.

Ickybod

Don H
10-02-2012, 07:51
Corporations (yes, I realize REI is a co-op) are amoral, so too are a few of their customers. The vast majority of customers will never wear out or return gear. REI still wins

"Corporations are amoral?" Why is that?
"REI still wins" You mean they make a profit so they can pay their employees and maintain their stores?

Years ago Sears use to have a sign at their store entrances saying "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back". Not anymore, even some of their Craftsman hand tools are not lifetime warranted any longer. Use to be anything that said Craftsman on it would be exchanged without question, not today.

Drybones
10-02-2012, 08:40
"Corporations are amoral?" Why is that?
"REI still wins" You mean they make a profit so they can pay their employees and maintain their stores?

Years ago Sears use to have a sign at their store entrances saying "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back". Not anymore, even some of their Craftsman hand tools are not lifetime warranted any longer. Use to be anything that said Craftsman on it would be exchanged without question, not today.

Companies are in the business of making money, nothing wrong with that. The ones that treat thier customers right "live long and prosper". Sam Walton became the richest person in the world by guaranteeing satisfaction...and a competitive price.

Drybones
10-02-2012, 08:42
Corporations (yes, I realize REI is a co-op) are amoral, so too are a few of their customers. The vast majority of customers will never wear out or return gear. REI still wins

Would like hear your take on why they are imoral...do you feel intitled to something?

Velvet Gooch
10-02-2012, 08:43
"Corporations are amoral?" Why is that?

Corporations are amoral legal entities. Morality rarely, if ever, factors in

Velvet Gooch
10-02-2012, 08:52
Would like hear your take on why they are imoral...do you feel intitled to something?

Notice that I used the word amoral, not immoral. I'm pro-big business

tdoczi
10-02-2012, 09:02
Would like hear your take on why they are imoral...do you feel intitled to something?

id like to think your misspelling of entitled was deliberate as some sort of joke... but i'm probably wrong.

m_factor
10-02-2012, 09:30
A good friend of mine was at the LL Bean store in Freeport, ME. She wasn't shopping for boots but was wearing some Bean boots that had been handed down from her grandfather to her father and then to her.

One of the employees saw her worn boots that would obviously no longer be waterproof and insisted that she go to the shoe department and get a replacement pair.

She tried to insist she didn't need another pair and besides, the shoes had outworn the "lifetime" of the original owner. But they obviously wanted her to walk away from the store not only happy, but happy enough to maybe tell others about her experience. So, not only did my friend get a new pair of boots to replace her old ones, but she has a story so good she passed it along. And here I am passing it on yet again - and not for the first time.

Whether or not it's "fair" for people to wear out gear and get free replacement gear, is one discussion. It's probably not fair. But, when people tell others about their experiences and how happy they are that REI and LL Bean have honored their warranties, other people will take notice. They may start shopping at these stores, too. Some of them may eventually take advantage of the warranty but most will likely just become new customers of the stores.

I'm sure the management of these stores determined that it's worth it to appease the relatively few "unfair" warranty claims in order to attract more long-term customers. Or in my friend's case, have their employees actively seek out an opportunity to have a customer leave their store with a great feeling of goodwill and a fantastic story.

Oh yeah... These actions may raise prices for the rest of us, but if that added customer base from goodwill stories keeps the economies of scale up, then the added cost from unfair returns may be negated by the reduced cost of larger production runs.

hikerboy57
10-02-2012, 09:43
it costs far Less to keep an existing customer happy then to attract 1 new one. superior customer service is the hallmark of all excellent companies. it's just good business. it shouldn't be abused

FlyPaper
10-02-2012, 10:03
I guess I'm in the minority here. I returned two pairs of Montrails this year and I sleep quite well at night because they did not meet my expectations of 500 miles for a pair of trail runners. A seam on the first pair tore after about 100 miles, so I exchanged them. The soles delaminated on the second pair after about 200 miles, so I returned them. I ended up getting 300 miles of hiking for free, but I'm quite okay with that because I'd be seriously unhappy about spending $109 and getting only 300 miles use.

If I had gotten something closer to my 500 mile expectation, I would have just paid for a new pair out of pocket.

I don't think you're a minority here. I think most would agree this is not an abuse.

Sarcasm the elf
10-02-2012, 10:16
Wow, first "amoral," now "economies of scale," some of you are using too much of your book learning in this thread.

Feral Bill
10-02-2012, 10:37
This thread has been beaten to death. Time to return it for a brand new one.

Drybones
10-02-2012, 13:28
id like to think your misspelling of entitled was deliberate as some sort of joke... but i'm probably wrong.

That's the way we spell it in special ed...sure wish I was smart like you...and intitled too.

Don H
10-02-2012, 14:03
Companies are in the business of making money, nothing wrong with that. The ones that treat thier customers right "live long and prosper". Sam Walton became the richest person in the world by guaranteeing satisfaction...and a competitive price.

I bet Sam Walton is spinning in his grave over all the cheap Chinese junk Walmart sells today. They use to take pride in selling American made products.

tdoczi
10-02-2012, 14:47
That's the way we spell it in special ed...sure wish I was smart like you...and intitled too.

the mistaking of the words amoral and immoral is more the issue. i was hoping maybe the misspelling of entitled was some sort of subtle self deprecating sarcasm.

me? entitled? why? because i know how to spell it and know that amoral is not the same as immoral? i in fact refuse things i am allegedly "entitled" to all the time. dig around here some and youll find me proudly proclaiming how i'd never call for a rescue if my ankle was broken and other such anti-entitlement rants.

Drybones
10-02-2012, 15:09
I bet Sam Walton is spinning in his grave over all the cheap Chinese junk Walmart sells today. They use to take pride in selling American made products.

Agree...everything has a life span, people, companies, nations...make good decisions you live long, make bad ones you part early. Families, companies, countries are blessed or cursed according to thier leadership.

Tuxedo
10-02-2012, 16:08
I had a pair of Nike trail runners that when I bought was told expect 200mi AT punishment they went 770mi and popped the right shoe Nike-air system. Nike was willing to replace for free as long as I hadn't purposely jabbed anything in the air pockets and paid for return shipping. I couldn't bring myself to send them and went and bought a new pair. The confidence behind the product says more then the guarantee I guess.

Prime Time
10-02-2012, 17:05
I think REI is just fine with this. It's quite simple really. They just don't want you to go any where else to buy new equipment. They are betting on the fact that their return policy will keep someone as a 100% loyal customer, and they know most people will be a bit less bold just due to their own conscience/values. The mark up on this stuff is at least 400%, so it doesn't really "cost" them anything other than the opportunity revenue of an incremental sale. They'd gladly trade that for customer loyalty.

johnnybgood
10-02-2012, 18:31
I think REI is just fine with this. It's quite simple really. They just don't want you to go any where else to buy new equipment. They are betting on the fact that their return policy will keep someone as a 100% loyal customer, and they know most people will be a bit less bold just due to their own conscience/values. The mark up on this stuff is at least 400%, so it doesn't really "cost" them anything other than the opportunity revenue of an incremental sale. They'd gladly trade that for customer loyalty.

Agree. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Wise Old Owl
10-02-2012, 19:50
I bet Sam Walton is spinning in his grave over all the cheap Chinese junk Walmart sells today. They use to take pride in selling American made products.


I think REI is just fine with this. It's quite simple really. They just don't want you to go any where else to buy new equipment. They are betting on the fact that their return policy will keep someone as a 100% loyal customer, and they know most people will be a bit less bold just due to their own conscience/values. The mark up on this stuff is at least 400%, so it doesn't really "cost" them anything other than the opportunity revenue of an incremental sale. They'd gladly trade that for customer loyalty.


+1 - I saw first hand with Dicks Sporting Goods with contractors taking advantage of the little known policy of 1 year on gortex boots... and the contractors delivered boots that were still wet after one year.They swapped out over and over again... ewww... didn't matter, They were less than 1%- a controllable cost as a manager.

rickb
10-02-2012, 20:05
All retail business will accept some shrinkage as well.

One might then say that mechants gladly embrace theft, because it allows them to present their paying customers with a positive shoppping experince.

In fact, with margins of 400% on might argue that theft doesn cost anything, because the lack of draconian measure to prevent it atract more people to their stores.

But that's different, right?

thecyclops
10-02-2012, 20:16
Just more entitlement mentality from people draining our economy.How people like this can sleep at night is beyond me,its sickening IMO.

canoe
10-02-2012, 20:38
I think REI is just fine with this. It's quite simple really. They just don't want you to go any where else to buy new equipment. They are betting on the fact that their return policy will keep someone as a 100% loyal customer, and they know most people will be a bit less bold just due to their own conscience/values. The mark up on this stuff is at least 400%, so it doesn't really "cost" them anything other than the opportunity revenue of an incremental sale. They'd gladly trade that for customer loyalty.

YOur ignorance about retail is quite obvious.

hikerboy57
10-02-2012, 20:45
All retail business will accept some shrinkage as well.

One might then say that mechants gladly embrace theft, because it allows them to present their paying customers with a positive shoppping experince.


In fact, with margins of 400% on might argue that theft doesn cost anything, because the lack of draconian measure to prevent it atract more people to their stores.

But that's different, right?
Where did you come up with a 400% margin?

bobqzzi
10-02-2012, 21:10
I think REI is just fine with this. It's quite simple really. They just don't want you to go any where else to buy new equipment. They are betting on the fact that their return policy will keep someone as a 100% loyal customer, and they know most people will be a bit less bold just due to their own conscience/values. The mark up on this stuff is at least 400%, so it doesn't really "cost" them anything other than the opportunity revenue of an incremental sale. They'd gladly trade that for customer loyalty.

400%? Where did you get that number. I'm quite sure it is well under 50%

Wise Old Owl
10-02-2012, 21:20
I can answer the % on the grounds of years of work'in a sales floor.... but it would incriminate me.

canoe
10-02-2012, 21:29
yeah so can I

moytoy
10-02-2012, 21:55
Generally 40 % on clothing and shoes. 400 % is ridiculous !

hikerboy57
10-02-2012, 21:55
"Its a write off,jerry,they just write it off!"

Feral Bill
10-02-2012, 23:34
. The mark up on this stuff is at least 400%, so........ Really?, 400%? Can you document that, or is it pure speculation?

daddytwosticks
10-03-2012, 14:05
"Its a write off,jerry,they just write it off!" Not that there's anything wrong with that....:)

Drybones
10-03-2012, 14:21
Where did you come up with a 400% margin?

I was wondering the same thing, I would believe 100%. Any retailers out there who can set the record straight?

Drybones
10-03-2012, 14:23
"Its a write off,jerry,they just write it off!"

No....they pass the cost on to the other customers...thanks for driving the cost up for the rest of us!

hikerboy57
10-03-2012, 14:25
No....they pass the cost on to the other customers...thanks for driving the cost up for the rest of us!
i guess you dont watch seinfeld.
im on the other side of the fence drybones. its great to offer superior customer service and a liberal return policy. its not great for customers abuse this policy, simply because they can.
character can be defined as doing the right thing when nobodys looking.
dont be a d-bag.you obviously havent read my other posts in this thread.

hikerboy57
10-03-2012, 14:27
I was wondering the same thing, I would believe 100%. Any retailers out there who can set the record straight?

about 10 years ago i worked in a better mens clothing store. after markdowns, our gross profit averaged betwen 20-25%.

Drybones
10-03-2012, 14:31
It's interesting how the values in this nation have changed the past 20 or so years. Most probably see nothing wrong with these returns. Most politicians lie every time thier mouth opens and no one seems to care. We've seen so much violence and crime on TV we've become anesthetized to it. Returning worn out shoes seems inconsequential.

pheldozer
10-03-2012, 16:45
margins are usually between 40-50% on clothing (not sure about arcteryx), and between 20-40% on hardgoods like bikes, skis, and climbing equipment.
i'm not a supporter of people returning gear that has reached it's effective lifespan through use, but i suppose the argument could be made that if a thru hiker had purchased all of their gear at REI, and made a few boot exchanges during the hike, REI would still be making money on them, and the hiker wouldn't spend every night at the shelter complaining about how REI screwed them out of the boots they were "entitled to"

hikerboy57
10-03-2012, 16:57
there are times at my dealership we have to make a judgement call on a repair thats not covered on warranty.we do it on a case by case basis. if the custoemr has been reasonable about his complaint, we will work something out to absorb part r all the cost of the repair.its just good business. If the customer is abusive with his unwarranted"demands" we wish him a nice day and good luck. it costs a fortune in advertising to attract a single customer, much less expensive to spend a little to keep an existing customer happy.
many of those who have been perceived to abuse REIs lifetime warranty ARE spending additional dollars for new gear, and so the policy becomes worthwhile. i dont think theres much you can do about the leaches out there that are just interested in "getting over". if it was a seriuos cost issue, REI would alter its policy, but it seems there okay with their policy.

hikerboy57
10-03-2012, 18:26
It's interesting how the values in this nation have changed the past 20 or so years. Most probably see nothing wrong with these returns. Most politicians lie every time thier mouth opens and no one seems to care. We've seen so much violence and crime on TV we've become anesthetized to it. Returning worn out shoes seems inconsequential.

lying isnt new to politicians, violence and crime isnt new to tv. i think our perception is the only thing thats changed.the older we get, the less "entitled" we feel.
the only good thing about the "good old days"is that we were younger.

Don H
10-03-2012, 18:37
i suppose the argument could be made that if a thru hiker had purchased all of their gear at REI, and made a few boot exchanges during the hike, REI would still be making money on them, and the hiker wouldn't spend every night at the shelter complaining about how REI screwed them out of the boots they were "entitled to"

How about when they return all​ their gear?

OldStormcrow
10-03-2012, 21:00
I was wondering the same thing, I would believe 100%. Any retailers out there who can set the record straight?
Yes, I do work at an outfitting store....not one of the "Big Box Chain Stores", but a privately owned local business. When you buy a pair of Asolo Fugitives, for example, you should consider the whole cost to the business.....about 55-60 percent of that full retail price is the actual cost that the store owner paid for them. Then you have the shipping costs. Then you have the hour of pay (plus benefits) for the employee who waited on you to fit you in those boots. Then you have the rent on the store. Then you have the utilities. Then you have the advertising. Then you have the taxes. Then you have the insurance. I could go on, but you get the message. Even worse than the people who take advantage of retail businesses for warranty stuff are the ones who come in and have you waste 1-2 hours fitting them and advising them on every aspect of a product, then they have the audacity to tell you to your face that they are going to go home and order the product from Amazon or Ebay so they can get a better price or avoid sales taxes. If customers continue to treat retailers as "showrooms" for online companies, all I can say is "You're gonna miss us brick and mortar stores when we're gone"!

Bronk
10-04-2012, 01:36
Companies that offer lifetime warranties do so for the marketing advantages of offering such warranties. If they don't intend to honor them, they shouldn't offer them. If you buy their product with no intention of using the warranty, then you're not getting what they are advertising and what you are paying for.

If people are supposed to buy these products with these warranties with a wink and a nod that they really aren't supposed to use the warranty, then which party is really getting screwed in the deal?

Feral Bill
10-04-2012, 01:44
Even worse than the people who take advantage of retail businesses for warranty stuff are the ones who come in and have you waste 1-2 hours fitting them and advising them on every aspect of a product, then they have the audacity to tell you to your face that they are going to go home and order the product from Amazon or Ebay so they can get a better price or avoid sales taxes. If customers continue to treat retailers as "showrooms" for online companies, all I can say is "You're gonna miss us brick and mortar stores when we're gone"! Oddly, I tend to browse the online stores and buy from the local brick and mortar stores. Am I the only one who does this?

jburgasser
10-04-2012, 08:14
All retail business will accept some shrinkage as well.

"I was in the pool!!!" George Costanza

OzJacko
10-04-2012, 08:53
The topic of cost of bricks and mortar stores versus online gets flogged to death here in Australia because most of our bricks and mortar stores are WELL above yours pricewise so the difference on some items can be enormous.
I happily buy from a real store if the price is within about 20-30% after postage etc, but then above that I start to weigh up the pros and cons.
Bear in mind none of our stores have anywhere near the returns policies of REI.
More often I buy a lot of gear now online because I can't get it in a store here. e.g. TarpTent, ULA pack, Evernew titanium gear.

hikerboy57
10-04-2012, 09:04
Oddly, I tend to browse the online stores and buy from the local brick and mortar stores. Am I the only one who does this?

im the same way, ill research to death, but especially when it comes to shoes, i need to try them on.i also want to touch and feel my equipment before i buy it.i want someone who can answer my questions from experienced salespeople.
and i like to bs a bit.
the only items i buy online are the ones i cant find in my local stores.
i do admit to buying my WM bag online cause i got annoyed when i saw the bag in ems, and noone offered to help me.usually theyve been great,, but that time i was just standing there scratching my head that noone would help me buy a $300 bag.

Drybones
10-04-2012, 10:45
lying isnt new to politicians, violence and crime isnt new to tv. i think our perception is the only thing thats changed.the older we get, the less "entitled" we feel.
the only good thing about the "good old days"is that we were younger.

Speak for yourself....I still am younger.

rickb
10-04-2012, 13:08
Companies that offer lifetime warranties do so for the marketing advantages of offering such warranties. If they don't intend to honor them, they shouldn't offer them. If you buy their product with no intention of using the warranty, then you're not getting what they are advertising and what you are paying for.

If people are supposed to buy these products with these warranties with a wink and a nod that they really aren't supposed to use the warranty, then which party is really getting screwed in the deal?

You would have a point if REI advertised a lifetime warrantee or represented thier boots as lasting a lifetime. They don't.

Rather they simply offer to replace a customer's purchase or refund the sales amount if the product "did not meet the customers expectations". No questions asked.

Any thru hiker who says that he expected his boots to last 2000 miles is either being disingenuous (a nice word for lying) or and idiot.

hikerboy57
10-04-2012, 13:17
almost all warranties warranty a product to be free from defect.if you just wore a pair of shoes till their was no sole left, that doesnt constitute a warranty claim.they dont guarantee a product will last you a lifetime.
the other way to handle it is to kill the customer. lifetime over.game set match.

Drybones
10-04-2012, 15:18
What REI offers is not a "warranty", it's a return policy. I'm sure they come out okay on it because most people are decent, so they are able to absorb the cost of a few ter* heads ripping them off.

bfayer
10-04-2012, 16:58
What REI offers is not a "warranty", it's a return policy. I'm sure they come out okay on it because most people are decent, so they are able to absorb the cost of a few ter* heads ripping them off.

Of course they come out ok, but is that really the issue? To me this thread is about personal honor or the lack of. (Not directed at you Drybones)

hikerboy57
10-04-2012, 17:08
"We stand behind everything we sell. If at any time your REI purchase doesn't meet your expectations, you can return it for a replacement or refund. What's more, if you're an REI member, you don’t even need a receipt—we'll have a record of your purchase."
now whats the expectation, that shoes should last for your lifetime or the lifetime of the shoes?what defines "expectation"?

Drybones
10-04-2012, 19:06
A little off topic but REI related. They have as deal of the week currently, 20 degree unisex and and 15 degree women down sleeping bags for $163. If you're a member you probably recieved a 20% off coupon that brings the price down to $128. My wife and I both already have these bags, good deal. Oh yeah...if I was under 6' I'd go with the ladies 15 degree version.

tdoczi
10-04-2012, 20:09
what defines "expectation"?

the person expecting something. does anyone really expect their boots to last forever? no, thats the disingenuous part.

canoe
10-04-2012, 22:37
Oddly, I tend to browse the online stores and buy from the local brick and mortar stores. Am I the only one who does this?
I ended up buying all my gear at brick and mortar store. It was very nice to have someone to talk too and point me in the right direction. The only thing I did nt not buy fro b n m store was my socks.

Bronk
10-05-2012, 03:21
"We stand behind everything we sell. If at any time your REI purchase doesn't meet your expectations, you can return it for a replacement or refund. What's more, if you're an REI member, you don’t even need a receipt—we'll have a record of your purchase."
now whats the expectation, that shoes should last for your lifetime or the lifetime of the shoes?what defines "expectation"?

Lots of people have lots of different expectations, which is probably why they leave it up to the customer. If I bought a certain brand of 'whatever' and it lasted me for 15 years and then when it was worn out I bought another of the same brand thinking it would last another 15 years, and then 4 years later it was worn out, I think I would be justified in returning it. But having said that, I wouldn't continue buying the product with the same expectation after that.

I used to work the refund desk at a big box store, so I know the kind of crap people pull...I once had a lady return a christmas tree in March with the tinsel still hanging on it and when I asked her for the reason for return she said "You know what, I just don't need this anymore."

But if I buy a high end expensive product and it has a lifetime warranty, I expect the item to last me a very long time, and if it doesn't, I'm going to call them on the warranty.

Somebody was saying on a similar thread awhile back that they bought socks with a lifetime warranty. The idiot that came up with that idea deserves to go bankrupt.

rickb
10-05-2012, 06:55
Lots of people have lots of different expectations, which is probably why they leave it up to the customer. If I bought a certain brand of 'whatever' and it lasted me for 15 years and then when it was worn out I bought another of the same brand thinking it would last another 15 years, and then 4 years later it was worn out, I think I would be justified in returning it. But having said that, I wouldn't continue buying the product with the same expectation after that.

I used to work the refund desk at a big box store, so I know the kind of crap people pull...I once had a lady return a christmas tree in March with the tinsel still hanging on it and when I asked her for the reason for return she said "You know what, I just don't need this anymore."

But if I buy a high end expensive product and it has a lifetime warranty, I expect the item to last me a very long time, and if it doesn't, I'm going to call them on the warranty.

Somebody was saying on a similar thread awhile back that they bought socks with a lifetime warranty. The idiot that came up with that idea deserves to go bankrupt.


REI doesn't offer a lifetime warantee on socks.

They simply say that if the socks they sell don't meet your expectaions, you can return them. No questions asked.

Those who "expect" a sock to miraculously last over 10 years of hiking are either liars or fools.

Same can be said for the hiker who expects his boots to last a thru hike.

Drybones
10-05-2012, 09:31
Just reading these posts and remembered my first REI experience, was looking for a Deuter 65 ACT Lite pack, thought that's what I needed from reading on line reviews, first backpacking mistake. I went to REI to try one on and I liked it. I had found one on the internet for $40 less than REI, the people were so helpful and nice I felt obligated to pay the extra $40, and I'm a pretty frugal person, have been called cheap more than once. I still have the pack, it's in perfect condition but I never use it and dont need it but I never considered returning it.

Velvet Gooch
10-05-2012, 10:36
The just-world hypothesis (or just-world fallacy) is the cognitive bias that human actions eventually yield morally fair and fitting consequences, so that, ultimately, noble actions are duly rewarded and evil actions are duly punished.

"Just-world hypothesis." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.. 04 Oct 2012. Web. 05 Oct 2012. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis>

Odd Man Out
10-05-2012, 11:47
Somebody was saying on a similar thread awhile back that they bought socks with a lifetime warranty. The idiot that came up with that idea deserves to go bankrupt.

I know the Darn Tough Sock guarantee has been discussed before. They have an "Unconditional Lifetime Guarantee" but reading the details, isn't technically a guarantee against wearing out. It is a guarantee that they are the most comfortable and durable socks you have ever owned:

Unconditional Lifetime Guarantee
Simply and without strings or conditions: if our all weather performance socks are not the most comfortable and durable socks you have ever worn, return them for another pair or your money back. No strings. No conditions. For life. When you are really serious about something you make it yourself.


I am wearing my DT ATC socks right now! Love em.

Driver8
10-06-2012, 14:37
This post from the Troverts' Trail Journal, http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=12940, raises an interesting question in this vein. Their packs, from Granite Gear, each failed, the husband's failed twice, during their recent AT thru-hike. The back-board, whatever it's called failed for him twice on his pack. The zippers on her first pack were problematic, so she replaced with a different pack, to her apparent satisfaction. Granite Gear stood behind their warranty and shipped free replacements to them.

Sounds like the husband's packs lasted about 1000 miles each until breaking - they don't specify, but the second one failed near their finish, about 2000 miles in, so I'm taking the average. 1000 miles for many a hiker would be 5, maybe even 10 years of hiking, but of course this is not so for an A.T. thru.

Is it reasonable to expect a backpack - as opposed to socks or shoes - to last for an entire A.T. thru fully intact? Many A.T. journals talk about pack manufacturers standing behind their products and shipping replacements - I seem to recall Granite Gear having to do so more than others, but that may just be my fuzzy memory. Is that fair to the manufacturer, assuming a "lifetime" guarantee? Of course, if a manufacturer says their pack will survive an A.T. thru or the like or warrants for a number of years or for a number of miles hiked, that's a different story. But what about a simple "lifetime" warranty?

hikerboy57
10-06-2012, 14:47
the only lifetime warranty ill use is the one on my body.if it doesnt last the rest of my life, i want a replacement!

johnnybgood
10-06-2012, 15:09
I went straight to the manufacture when my Keen boots,which I bought at REI, came apart at the seams after 15 months of use. While their lifetime warranty of 1 year had expired Keen completely stood behind their reputation in replacing my boots.
Never has it occured to me to replace "worn out" gear but did believe the poor workmanship in this case necessitated a quick response from the manufacture.

pheldozer
10-06-2012, 15:28
Even worse than the people who take advantage of retail businesses for warranty stuff are the ones who come in and have you waste 1-2 hours fitting them and advising them on every aspect of a product, then they have the audacity to tell you to your face that they are going to go home and order the product from Amazon or Ebay so they can get a better price or avoid sales taxes. If customers continue to treat retailers as "showrooms" for online companies, all I can say is "You're gonna miss us brick and mortar stores when we're gone"![/QUOTE]
those people are the WORST. they somehow assume that you'll be impressed by their deal finding abilities. if people said this to me at the beginning of an interaction, i would go in the back and say we were out of their size for everything they were trying to try on.

honorable mention goes to the people who would try stuff on and then brag to you that their buddy was going to get them for them on proform.

glaux
10-06-2012, 17:41
I returned a pair of boots that were too worn out to be usable, only after the associate encourages me to do so. They has shredded my feet with blisters on my last backpacking trip, and I was looking for trail runners. I was amazed that they took them, and that's when I realized how serious they are about the return policy.

I have since then spent a ton of money at REI, and I will remain loyal. I won't take advantage of the policy. I hope that people like me continue to outnumber those who simply replace gear that worked and that simply wore out.

Drybones
10-06-2012, 19:58
I returned a pair of boots that were too worn out to be usable, only after the associate encourages me to do so. They has shredded my feet with blisters on my last backpacking trip, and I was looking for trail runners. I was amazed that they took them, and that's when I realized how serious they are about the return policy.

I have since then spent a ton of money at REI, and I will remain loyal. I won't take advantage of the policy. I hope that people like me continue to outnumber those who simply replace gear that worked and that simply wore out.

I've come to realize REI has some pretty sharp upper management...that pair of boots was a cheap investment for a long term customer.

Blissful
10-06-2012, 20:09
I returned a pair of boots that were too worn out to be usable, only after the associate encourages me to do so. They has shredded my feet with blisters on my last backpacking trip, and I was looking for trail runners. I was amazed that they took them, and that's when I realized how serious they are about the return policy.

I have since then spent a ton of money at REI, and I will remain loyal. I won't take advantage of the policy. I hope that people like me continue to outnumber those who simply replace gear that worked and that simply wore out.


You said they were too worn out to be useable. That means you DID use them though, multiple times (even if there were blisters on the last hike). So if it doesn't "work out" yet they are worn time and time again so as to be worn out and not"useable", yet they were still returned in supposed good conscious. What is the difference between that and the initial post that began this thread? You still returned old, worn out merchandise to REI. If boots are too worn to be useable, they should not (in good conscious) be returned for money or exchange.
This example would be like me going out to buy running shoes from REI, using them for a year, on the last run, I got a blister, I want a different model, so I go and return them.

Sarcasm the elf
10-06-2012, 20:36
You said they were too worn out to be useable. That means you DID use them though, multiple times (even if there were blisters on the last hike). So if it doesn't "work out" yet they are worn time and time again so as to be worn out and not"useable", yet they were still returned in supposed good conscious. What is the difference between that and the initial post that began this thread? You still returned old, worn out merchandise to REI. If boots are too worn to be useable, they should not (in good conscious) be returned for money or exchange.
This example would be like me going out to buy running shoes from REI, using them for a year, on the last run, I got a blister, I want a different model, so I go and return them.

Blissful, if I understood glaux's comment correctly, she went to REI with the intention of simply purchasing a new pair of shoes. When she was there it was the store employee that steered her towards the return. Since she went to a store to make a commercial transaction and was offered a great deal (free boots) by an associate, I think it's quite a bit different than trying to talk your way into free stuff, or buying something with the intention of returning it.

I know people who have had this happen when shopping at LL Bean and an old Timberland store. The employees that do it know that they are creating a great deal of customer loyalty, and I can only guess that management is aware that this happens and is okay with it. To me, it's largely the same as when casinos order their pit bosses to comp people free meals and rooms when the people have had a losing night (http://listverse.com/2010/02/09/10-tricks-casinos-use-on-you/ (see #4 on the list)) They know that the money they spend giving out the freebie's is well worth it for the long term customer loyalty it creates.

Rasty
10-06-2012, 20:37
Where did you come up with a 400% margin?

I was wondering the same thing, I would believe 100%. Any retailers out there who can set the record straight?

Golf clothing usually starts at a 4x markup then slowly wanders down to 60% off for an average 40% COS (cost of sales).