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View Full Version : Ultracompression of down - opinions?



Starchild
10-10-2012, 12:32
I have seen some backpackers really squeeze their down bags and jackets with compression straps to the tightest they can - this is how I am using the term ultracompression. It is also something I used to do way back when. I have to think such tight compression must have some effect on the down that would tend to lower it's insulation over time and compression cycles, thus lowering it's effectiveness. I have seen my very first down bag, the one I used to ultra compress, lose some of it's effectiveness though that could also be deteriorating baffles and just regular use - I really don't know.

I would also totally guess that it could result in more weight carried as a frequently ultra-compressed 20F bag might insulate as well as a undamaged 30F bag but would be heavier.

With my down now I usually only place it in the stuff sack bag size and only use the compression straps if I need the extra space. Though the bag does come with compression straps to allow a much tighter and smaller volume, but does this damage the down?

Just to note I leave it uncompressed for storage.

So how do you pack your down and why?

jakedatc
10-10-2012, 12:37
no stuff sack. at the bottom of my pack in a plastic trash compactor bag. compression sacks create empty spaces in your pack that cannot be used. unstuffed bag lets your gear on top of it squish it down and fill all the space around it.

Moose2001
10-10-2012, 12:43
another one of those personal things that work for you. Compressing down does not hurt it.

colorado_rob
10-10-2012, 12:44
I pack my fairly loosely and would never use a compression sack on my down items. For example, I just stuff my sleeping bags into the bottom of my pack (not in any sacks at all), then pack things on top, being careful to not over-stuff. Pack volume has never been a limiting factor in any trip I've ever taken, and I generally use modest-sized packs. I just don't get when/why a compression sack would ever be needed.

These products come with simple storage sacks, at least all of mine do, and I interpret those sizes to be the minimum size such things should be compressed. Most of the time I don't even need that level of compression. None of my down products have ever come with compression sacks.

Good down products are expensive. I just don't want to risk damage.

colorado_rob
10-10-2012, 12:45
Compressing down does not hurt it. With due respect, according to at least some manufacturers, this is just not true.

Moose2001
10-10-2012, 12:54
With due respect, according to at least some manufacturers, this is just not true.

show me one. WM says it's fine to compress your down sleeping bag.

colorado_rob
10-10-2012, 12:59
show me one. WM says it's fine to compress your down sleeping bag. I looked briefly, and I cannot, so I retract my statement. Please forgive my potentially false correction of your original statement (I say potentially because there still might be manufacturers that say is does do damage).

Still, since I find zero need to ever use a compression sack, and since WM bags cost as much as some house payments, I would never use a compression sack. Plus, why carry the extra weight?

Moose2001
10-10-2012, 13:22
I looked briefly, and I cannot, so I retract my statement. Please forgive my potentially false correction of your original statement (I say potentially because there still might be manufacturers that say is does do damage).

Still, since I find zero need to ever use a compression sack, and since WM bags cost as much as some house payments, I would never use a compression sack. Plus, why carry the extra weight?

hmmm....to be fair Rob, I can't find it on WM's website either! It used to be on a FAQ page they had but looks like it's gone. I'd be interested in seeing what any manufacturer says about compression. In the past what I've read is compressing down was fine and compressing synthetic bags/garmets lead to them loosing loft. Maybe things have changed!

colorado_rob
10-10-2012, 13:28
This would be a good thing to get a definitive answer on, maybe an actual call to WM is in order, along with a call to maybe MontBell or some other good down product company. But, dammit, gotta do some work (the kind that draws a paycheck).

Starchild
10-10-2012, 13:28
Thanks for the idea of not stuffing it at all and using it as the base to other packed items. Sounds like a great way to pack the bag.

Creek Dancer
10-10-2012, 13:31
Not sure why someone would use compression straps and a stuff sack for a down bag. The stuff sack already compresses the bag quite a bit. I stuff mine in a waterproof stuff sack. I always worry it's going to get wet somehow. And wet down is useless.

jakedatc
10-10-2012, 13:52
Thanks for the idea of not stuffing it at all and using it as the base to other packed items. Sounds like a great way to pack the bag.

Yep, i put the sleeping bag and usually any spare clothes i don't plan on needing during the day .. sleeping socks, down puffy/sweater etc. squish it down and get a lot of the air out of the bag, twist it shut. pack everything on top of it. 4-5 pack of bags costs like $3-5 buck, cheap to replace if something damages one. make sure to get Unscented..

1azarus
10-10-2012, 14:25
if you need to compress your down bag you may well be carrying too much stuff!!! i fall into the bag just loose in the bottom of my backpack crowd. that is also the simplest, fastest solution to bag storage, in my opinion... and it does make packing the rest of the pack simple because it just compresses out of the way where needed.

Tipi Walter
10-10-2012, 14:26
I remember something on WM about not using a compression sac, something about hurting the coil zippers, etc. When I got my treasured WM bag I discarded their crappy come-with-the-bag stuff sac and got a Sea to Summit 35 liter roll top silnylon sac which is just right for my bag. In fact, it's a little big which makes stuffing easier and keeps the down from getting crushed. I figure the more loft you keep with your bag, even when packed, the more warmth you have in camp. I never could understand guys stuffing a sleeping bag and then cinching it down even more with straps. In fact the straps add more weight anyway and what's the problem? Not enough room in your pack?

QiWiz
10-10-2012, 14:34
+1 to Tipi Walter's comments

I put my down gear/quilt/sleeping bag in a relatively large stuffsack of lightweight spinntex and then put in my pack so that as I add things to the pack, it only gets compressed to the extent that it needs to be. I think this is much better for the down - less compression the better.

88BlueGT
10-10-2012, 16:15
I am certainly no down bad expert but I have been compressing my Marmot Helium for a long time. I have not had any issues with it so far that I can see or feel. However, I definitely do not store my bag this way. I either hang my bag or store it in the loft sack that it came with from the factory (a garbage bag will do the same thing). If its only being compressed for the hiking portion of your trip and lofting overnight I don't see the issue.

I also never have packing issues with compressing my bad. Someone above mentioned that it creates gaps in your bag. Well, that all really depends on how YOU pack it. If I fully compress my bag I lay it sideways at the bottom and have room for my cookset or something else on the side. If I don't fully compress it, I compress it just enough to lay it sideways at the bottom of my bag to take it all up.

LAST, I do not feel comfortable just 'stuffing' my bag into the bottom of my ruck and pack on top of it for two reasons. One is, I use a ULA Circuit, and for anyone who uses this bag you know there are not many compartments or pockets so many items get 'tossed' into my bag. If one of these items is sharp and puts a cut into my $400 sleeping bag, id be quite upset. Also, if your bag gets wet, there goes your sleeping bag too. As mentioned above, sleeping in a wet down bag is NEVER fun and takes a lot of time to dry out.

I say compression all the way, but to each his own. Just my .02.

88BlueGT
10-10-2012, 16:20
Sorry I spelled bag* wrong a few times. Won't let me edit... you get the point :)

jakedatc
10-10-2012, 16:27
LAST, I do not feel comfortable just 'stuffing' my bag into the bottom of my ruck and pack on top of it for two reasons. One is, I use a ULA Circuit, and for anyone who uses this bag you know there are not many compartments or pockets so many items get 'tossed' into my bag. If one of these items is sharp and puts a cut into my $400 sleeping bag, id be quite upset. Also, if your bag gets wet, there goes your sleeping bag too. As mentioned above, sleeping in a wet down bag is NEVER fun and takes a lot of time to dry out.

you conveniently missed the part about being stuffed inside a trash compactor bag.. which is probably more waterproof than many stuff sacks.

i'm not sure what things you are throwing in your bag that are sharp but that seems odd to me. the sharpest point in my pack is a plastic compass. which lives in the top pocket.

88BlueGT
10-10-2012, 16:38
That's always an option, I just don't prefer it... hence when I said MY .02.

Also, what seems 'odd' to you may be perfectly 'normal' for me.

jakedatc
10-10-2012, 16:50
Well, you throw up a strawman by ignoring my waterproof solution and said it would get wet. so after that i don't hold much faith in the rest of it.

daddytwosticks
10-11-2012, 07:22
Nothing worse than trying to wrestle with your sleeping bag as you stuff it into a tiny stuff sack first thing in the AM. I too try to use a larger aftermarket stuff sack for my bag or better yet, just pack it loosley in the bottem of my backpack and let the contents mold it into shape. :)

Don H
10-11-2012, 07:33
I don't compress my down bags any more than the stock stuff sack would do. I use an ultra light Sea to Summit dry bag.
Also I store it in a large cloth bag at home.

fredmugs
10-11-2012, 08:44
Both my Marmot down jacket and my Sea to Summit bag state that when you are home you should not have them compressed. I'm guessing compressing and de-compressing on a trip is fine but leaving it in a stuff sack over a long period of time is not good.

snifur
10-11-2012, 09:45
absolutely, you want the down to be stored uncomressed and aloft. i hang mine by the hood in the closet with a few drier sheets. occassionaly i will fluff it while it is hanging. by bag is just as fluffy and warm as the day i bought it even after several washings.

88BlueGT
10-11-2012, 10:05
Well, you throw up a strawman by ignoring my waterproof solution and said it would get wet. so after that i don't hold much faith in the rest of it.

It's okay I wasn't paying much attention to your posts.

garlic08
10-11-2012, 10:23
A long time ago I heard you should never sit on your sleeping bag in its stuff sack or in your pack on the ground, because it could damage the insulation, whether down or synthetic. I thought that was good advice and it got me out of a bad habit. I also heard somewhere that feathers are NOT unbreakable, that high compression can damage them. Without scientific proof, that just makes sense and it's something to avoid with expensive stuff.

The only person I've ever seen use a compression sack for a sleeping bag also had the largest pack I'd ever seen. From that very small sample, I've concluded that compression sacks just allow you to bring too much stuff.

I'm in the "keep the sleeping bag loosely packed in the bottom of your pack in a trash compactor bag with the rest of your insulation and let everything else get wet" school.

mamamiapdx
10-11-2012, 22:45
Yup, compression doesnt hurt the down short term, but I always store my bags on a cloth hanger when not on the trail