View Full Version : Is it practical to try a hammock for a Thru w/o going all in?
Hello all,
I am planning a 2013 AT thru hike attempt, and I am interested in trying to utilize a hammock for some or maybe even all of the trip. My current solo setup is a Shangri-La 1, and I also have the optional bug net/floor. My sleeping bags are a Western Mountaineering Highlite (35F) and a Montbell UL Spiral Down #1 (15F). My groundpad is in need of replacing after getting several horrible nights' sleep on a recent hike in the Cascades, and it was a crappy Wally World one anywho.
I guess my question is, is it really practical to try to get into hammock camping for such a long trip if I'm not gonna commit beforehand and get all the accessories like Under-Blankets and Over-Blankets and so forth. I've got some really nice down bags as is, and I don't want to spend $500+ to get all these fancy blankets. Is it reasonable to just use my existing sleeping bags with a nice groundpad(maybe with a shoulder extender for cold weather)? I was eyeballing the Warbonnet Blackbird from the research I'd done and was thinking maybe the Double-1.1 since I'm a little over 200lbs, and I'd read that the double works better with a pad so it might be worth the 2oz over the Single 1.7. I do kind of like the pad idea as it transitions to the ground or a shelter nicely if need be.
I suppose I could also use the tent for the colder durations of the trip and do a gear swap through the mail to the hammock for the warmer sections. I keep reading that sleeping bags and groundpads are kind of a pain in the rear in a hammock though, and that even at temperatures as high as 60-70F (depending on person), many will need some kind of pad or Under-Blanket.
If anyone can help me straighten out my thoughts or shed some light on the subject, I would appreciate it. I'm reading on here as much as I can which has been very helpful, but it is a lot of information to process without some hands-on experience to help me clear it up in my own head. Obviously if I decide to go for it, I am going to spend some nights this winter in the backyard figuring out what works for me. Just wanna see if this is even a reasonable pursuit.
kayak karl
10-13-2012, 12:05
you would probable be better off putting your money into your ground gear.
You can certainly use your current bags in a hammock. In the warmer temps, lay it over you like a quilt, when it gets cold it just takes some getting used to to get in/out. Certain hammocks are a real pain to use bags in. I'd suggest a cheap double layer hammock (or make your own). A double layer for the pad, use an extra pad cross ways for the shoulders. My first year in a hammock I used the rainfly from a eureka timberline tent as my tarp so you don't need a fancy one. To answer your question, it certainly is possible to use a hammock with almost all of your current gear. One doesn't need to spend a fortune to get in a hammock. All the underquilts and stuff are relatively new, many of us have been hanging well before they became common.
max patch
10-13-2012, 13:22
While people have thru'd using a hammock the entire way, imagine the scenario that when you wake up at 7 its pouring. You don't want to even think about getting out and hiking until it stops. Are you going to be happy in your hammock until 10? 12? 5? I think thats the question you need to ask yourself.
While people have thru'd using a hammock the entire way, imagine the scenario that when you wake up at 7 its pouring. You don't want to even think about getting out and hiking until it stops. Are you going to be happy in your hammock until 10? 12? 5? I think thats the question you need to ask yourself.
Personally I'd be MUCH happier sitting/lounging in my hammock than in any backpacking style tent. I would be much more comfortable, probably drier, enjoying a much better view and perhaps heating up a cup of Joe while using my hammock as a lounge chair.
To answer the OP...I used a WM 30 degree bag down to the low twenties on my hike this year...usually open as a top quilt. I don't think I ever zipped it up. I did use an underquilt but considered a Neo Air Xlite for those couple of times I considered staying in a shelter. They both weigh about the same. If you go that route you will probably need extra padding in the shoulder area. I cut a Thermarest Z Lite cut in half. It doubles as a really nice sit pad.
I found the hammock way more comfortable and easier to find a spot to hang. I rarely stayed at shelter areas. I never got wet in my hammock nor did my down gear.
Cat in the Hat
chip2012
10-13-2012, 13:55
I've been using one the whole time so far and its great. The rain fly is great for lunch if its raining and I can set up camp in a storm and nothing gets wet. Also its very easy to hang in shelters if you choose.
yellowsirocco
10-13-2012, 17:00
While people have thru'd using a hammock the entire way, imagine the scenario that when you wake up at 7 its pouring. You don't want to even think about getting out and hiking until it stops. Are you going to be happy in your hammock until 10? 12? 5? I think thats the question you need to ask yourself.
Well you pack your crap up and go. It is much easier to pack using a hammock than with a tent.
While people have thru'd using a hammock the entire way, imagine the scenario that when you wake up at 7 its pouring. You don't want to even think about getting out and hiking until it stops. Are you going to be happy in your hammock until 10? 12? 5? I think thats the question you need to ask yourself.
Stuck lying down in a cramped little tent, or able to stand up under a big tarp, with the option to lie in or sit on my hammock... I'll take my hammock, thanks!
You can certainly use a hammock without an underquilt - that's what I do. I use a thermarest or my big Agnes air mattress, and cover up with my sleeping bag, quilt style. Works great, and as you said, you still have the option to sleep in a shelter or on the ground. I carry a ground cloth (mylar space blanket) for those occassions when I want to pitch my tarp and sleep on the ground. It just takes some experimenting to see what's comfortable for you. Come to think of it, we all probably did some experimenting to see what was comfortable the first few times we tented, too.
RichardD
10-13-2012, 19:24
I used a hammock on my thru last year. I also used my WM 20 deg bag as my winter gear (before Pearisburg, after Hanover). On really cold nights I used the bag fully zipped and its not a hassle to do that. Unzip the foot section of bag, step through, stand or sit and position the upper part of the bag as you want, lie down in the hammock and pull your feet in and zip up the foot section. Bag does not touch the ground.
Most of the time I used the bag as a quilt
I used an underquilt but I think an airmat would work fine in a two layer hammock, in fact its what I plan on using on my 2013 PCT hike.
I carried a NEO on my AT thru last year so as to be comfortable when ground sleeping as in shelters and huts.
The hammock was very comfortable in inclement weather, I stayed dry when my tent bound friends did not, I had room to move around in the dry, sit, recline or lie in great comfort and had lots of dry space for food prep. When making camp in the rain I could hang the tarp first then hang the hammock under it in the dry and in no rush, I stayed dry, my tent bound friends did not.
Enjoy your hammock but give it a few days to get used to it.
Hairbear
10-13-2012, 20:10
i was always a ground sleeper till i got into my first hammock.it has been a winding road to get where im,but i dont think i could ever go back now .i use a sleeping bag as a top quilt and an under quilt. the difference between the pad and the uq are like the difference between a cadilac and an impalabut you dont have to buy the caddy all at once you can add to you set up as you can afford it.maybe buying used would save you alot.you dont need the fancy stuff be creative.be careful though when you least expect it ......wham.... your a hammock freak with no cure,lol.
Hairbear
10-13-2012, 20:15
While people have thru'd using a hammock the entire way, imagine the scenario that when you wake up at 7 its pouring. You don't want to even think about getting out and hiking until it stops. Are you going to be happy in your hammock until 10? 12? 5? I think thats the question you need to ask yourself.all you have to do is get up snake skin your gear and you have a big room inside the tarp i could dance in my tarp area ,but louging in chair mode or some more snore time is great too.
Seldomseen
10-13-2012, 20:50
Great in the summer, but cold the rest of the year.
Great in the summer, but cold the rest of the year.
Not if you know what you are doing.
Darwin13
10-13-2012, 23:22
hammock is the way to be holllla
Darwin13
10-13-2012, 23:23
in porch mode sitting down cooking a little "breakfast in the hammock" - Shug
Well I think this gives me the encouragement to go for it. I appreciate all the feedback I've gotten so far. I had been wanting to get a hammock for a while, even if just for summer use and not the thru hike, but I should have some time to experiment with it and hopefully get it set up to my liking. I'm also not opposed to eventually buying the accessories, but all in due time/budget. I just can't get it all in time for my NOBO attempt.
A question about using pads though: would I be better off with a foam pad or an inflatable? I believe the inflatables would probably have better R values, but I could also see their added thickness making them harder to keep under you with more of a propensity to try to pop out if you lean one way or another. Any recommendations? My Dad has some kind of Thermarest (Prolite maybe?) that I could experiment with before ultimately purchasing a new groundpad which I need to do anyway.
Also a silly question, but I see lots of references to NeoAirs. Which NeoAir is THE classic NeoAir? I don't know if Cascades changed the naming convention on their product lineup, but now it seems they've got the X-Lite, X-Therm, Trekker, All-Season, etc, but I don't see one simply labeled the NeoAir.
bear bag hanger
10-14-2012, 06:45
I used a hammock all the way on my 2004 AT thru hike. I also thru hiked the Long Trail, the Ozark Highlands Trail and the Florida trail with my hammock. A few things I've learned along the way: You need a pad about 25" wide, a 20" wide doesn't work very well. It needs to be insulated, an air pad just won't work. A closed cell pad works well, but can be headache to carry. A double bottom hammock definitely helps if you plan to use a pad instead of an under quilt. You'll probably be more comfortable with a integrated bug net, but an added one will work. You'll of course need a tarp of some sort. I find using a tarp that hangs separately from the hammock better. As far as rain is concerned, I find it easier to deal with when using a hammock than with a tent. You just hang up the tarp and work underneath it when it's raining. There is no reason to stay in the hammock when it's raining in the morning. Just take down the tarp last. When you pick out a hammock, make sure you can use it on the ground. Some places just don't allow you to use them.
Had a hammock, could never get use to it so I sold it. I'm a side sleeper and toss and turn all night.
I'm much more comfortable sleeping on the ground. I tented every night on my thru last year except in the Smokys.
Never got wet in my tent, SMD Lunar Solo, 23 oz.
Was very happy with my Neo Air Regular pad, 14 oz.
And was plenty warm in my Feathered Friends Swallow 20 degree bag, 32 oz.
I know my old hammock system weighed a lot more than my current 69 oz. sleep system.
I would not go into a thru without knowing for sure that whatever equipment I had has been tested and works for me. That goes for shoes, tents hammocks, packs, stoves etc. So my suggestion is that if you want to change to a hammock take some time to test it. You've got at least 6 months.
A question about using pads though: would I be better off with a foam pad or an inflatable? .
I've used a thermarest prolite and a big agnes insulated aircore with equal success, in both cases I use the shorty model. I'm a very still sleeper once I get situated, so I didn't find the width of the pad to be an issue - but the BA is wider than the Thermarest. I also carry 1/2 a z-rest that I can use as a sit pad, under-leg insulation, extra insulation under the pad, protection for the inflatable when used on the ground, emergency pad when all else fails, etc.
A Hammock is a great way to go if you want options. If you want to camp trailside you are in great shape. If you camp at the shelters you are good, in the shelters and your fine too. I carry less weight when I am hammock camping. Really no need for a sleeping pad or ground cover. I have slept in all types of weather and prefer my hammock.
medestar
10-15-2012, 17:21
There are many options out there, from closed cell foam pads, to inflated mattresses, to underquilts. A lot of it depends on what you want to spend. I would suggest you go to www.hammockforums.net if you want a lot of information. Mostly you should try out some options (see if you can borrow gear) to see what works best for you. Not everyone can sleep comfortably in a hammock. I have gone from CCF pads, to self inflating mattress to underquilt myself. And I have slept out in a hammock comfortably when it was -10 temps. It all comes back to preparation and planning. Shug Emery has lots of information in his you tube presentations (and he is very funny).
Great in the summer, but cold the rest of the year.
Disagree...
Ive used my hammock in cool/cold weather. Its very cold if you dont have a pad or underquilt. A pad makes it much better, and an underquilt makes it even more comfortable, because you're not laying directly on the pad (which makes me sweat like crazy on my back). I like the underquilt better - its warm without becoming sweaty. Either one is going to be weight/bulk in your pack though. I am finding, compared to my ground-bound friends, Im not really saving on weight or bulk using a hammock, indeed a one-person tarptent seems to take up much less room. But its advantages seem to outweigh that.
As long as there are trees spaced correctly...
Hairbear
10-18-2012, 06:40
im not far ahead of you with the hammock,im a newb to it,but ive used mine alot in the last 6 months trying to fing nervana for a sleep system.the things ive learned along the way have been great training and quite fun.i started out with a hennesy explorer,it was ok but ive had a plate put in my ankle so i couldnt take the right ankle twist.tried a blow up pad in it but both times woke up flat and in pain.i took it back and the supplier said it was a faulty valve.i didnt want to trust my sleep to a blow up after that.the foam pad was much better but made me sweat with contact.im a underwear sleeper so i didnt like that.i moved from that to a wbbb,the confort level increased but transfered my confort problem to leg bite in the left calve.by this time im pretty frustrated,but i know its because i have very big tight legs from what i do for a living and there was just no room for them comfortably in a gathered end hammock.(not the results with everyone and i dont balame the hammock).i was about to say to heck with a hammock and go back to groung dwelling when i found the wbrr its over for me now im a bridge hammock guy now and love it.the bridge make a nice warm pain free enviroment with no under quilt aligning every time you thrash around and the warmth from the u q is amazing with no shoulder freeze.the bottom line is learning something new is sometimes a pain but stick with it when you find your perfect method you will be one happy camper.
Great in the summer...
http://iklan-poskota.com/img/index.jpg
JaxHiker
10-18-2012, 11:47
I gave a hammock presentation at the recent Florida Trail regional conference. One of the ladies in attendance commented on how nice it was during a storm to be safe and dry under her tarp fixing dinner while her friend was stuck in her tent all cooped up.
I've slept in my hammock in 80-90 degree temps and as low as 23. I don't ever want to go back to the ground.
For me the flexibilty and comfort are considerably more important than the weight. I think most that use hammocks feel this way.
Gee, I wonder how Shug has video's posted of him, his hammock, and a sunrise in Minnesota at -17 degrees....
Gee, I wonder how Shug has video's posted of him, his hammock, and a sunrise in Minnesota at -17 degrees....
I tried to take pictures of my -22*F hammock trip in the Adks, but it the camera would shutoff as soon as I turned it on because it was too cold.
I tried to take pictures of my -22*F hammock trip in the Adks, but it the camera would shutoff as soon as I turned it on because it was too cold.Yeah, hanging below zero can be done an done warmly. What Under quilt / Top Quilt / Pad / jacket were you wearing?
prepcore
10-28-2012, 12:37
Great in the summer, but cold the rest of the year.
I live in the adirondacks in upstate NY and have no problems sleeping out in the middle of winter. While it's not the north pole it is known for it's cold, unpredictable weather. If you know what you're doing and have the right gear you can sleep in a hammock during anything.
Yeah, hanging below zero can be done an done warmly. What Under quilt / Top Quilt / Pad / jacket were you wearing?
Entire system for that -22*F hang:
10x11 tarp for full 360* coverage
Claytor hammock (with bugnet to stop condensation snow from falling back on me)
North Face -20 Solar Flare sleeping bag
wlamart waffle pad
walmart cheapo ccf pad (cut to fit crossways for my core and shoulders)
poncho with garbage bag inside (google garlington insulator)
wore: polypro longjohns top and bottom, nylon windpants, heavy wool socks, down booties, balaclava, knit hat, polypro gloves.
my puffy jacket and next days baselayers was also in with me to keep them warm. I am sure they helped insulate too.
Wise Old Owl
10-28-2012, 13:37
Eldon - I suggest Hammock Forums for this question. see my Signature.
you would probable be better off putting your money into your ground gear.
Well he asked about hammocking....
While people have thru'd using a hammock the entire way, imagine the scenario that when you wake up at 7 its pouring. You don't want to even think about getting out and hiking until it stops. Are you going to be happy in your hammock until 10? 12? 5? I think thats the question you need to ask yourself.
When the hammock is pitched higher the snake skin can move it out of the way and you still have a tarp. beats a body bag or a tent ... sit underneath or lay down and read.
Getting in or out with a HH and a bag from the bottom is awesome and easy... the side entry didn't work for me.
Raymond James
10-28-2012, 13:42
I have only ever used a hammock in warm weather usually on or near a beach. However I have seen some of the clips on Utube and am thinking about getting one. They look like in many respets they would be as good or bettter than a small backpacking tent. My problem with small tents is getting in and out especailly now that I am getting older.
kayak karl
10-28-2012, 13:46
Eldon - I suggest Hammock Forums for this question. see my Signature.
Well he asked about hammocking....
no he didn't. he said he was on a budget and was considering hammocking PART time. my suggestion was rather then going into hammocking with no money I THINK he would be better off putting what little money he has into tuning up his ground gear.
Dr. Professor
10-31-2012, 01:17
I have the Warbonnet Blackbird Double-1.1 and the Warbonnet Yeti underquilt. I'm around 188 normally, 180 on the trail; so, a little lighter than you, but not enough to make a difference. I use the Cloud 9 comforter from Western Mountaineering rather than a bag -- more comfortable, and far easier in a hammock.
I love hammock camping, and feel that it trumps ground camping.
Advantages:
- Many more possible camping sites available to hammock campers.
- Do not need a flat slope.
- Off the ground in the event of rain/mud.
- Greater comfort except perhaps in the rare event of a perfectly flat, soft, dry tent site.
- Much easier to deal with rain both setting up camp in rain and striking camp in rain. I set up the hammock first when dry and the tarp first when raining.
Disadvantage: Cost.
Regarding my specific hammock, I love the shelf. Also, I also like being able to stuff clothing between the layers if I need extra insulation. I find it very easy to use.
I'm not experienced enough with other types of hammocks to comment on their pluses and minuses.
gunner76
10-31-2012, 10:26
I have used my hammock from 100 degrees down to 18 degrees in snow. I know groups that go out when it is sub zero just to sleep in their hammocks. Like anything else, its knowing how to do it properly. Most fun my wife (also a hammock hanger) and I had on a camping trip was watching a couple spend an hour (yes an hour) trying to set up their tent. After watching 20 minutes I offered to help but was told they did not need any help so I sat back down and watched to show.
Then they tried to start a fire.
bannerstone
10-31-2012, 11:48
If you're going to go next year then get your gear now and start testing it through the cold weather to get the kinks worked out of your system so you'll be prepared when you start your thru.
I really enjoy cold weather hanging and recommend just dropping the cash for an under quilt. If you try a Warbonnet Blackbird and a good quality underquilt for a few cold outings and then decide hanging just isn't your thing, you should be able to sell it fairly quickly at quite a good portion of your original cost on hammockforums.net. Nearly all my gear was purchased 2nd hand there. Pssst... black friday sales are just around the corner, many of the cottage vendors will offer attactive incentives. :)
David
agree with Bannerstone/David. I also bought all mine second hand. And the UQ is, IMHO, NOT optional. Unless you are hanging when it is like 70 or above over night (like summer here in Texas). I was cold at 65 degrees when I didn't hang the UQ. Had to get up at midnight to hang it.
Dr. Professor
10-31-2012, 14:23
agree with Bannerstone/David. I also bought all mine second hand. And the UQ is, IMHO, NOT optional. Unless you are hanging when it is like 70 or above over night (like summer here in Texas). I was cold at 65 degrees when I didn't hang the UQ. Had to get up at midnight to hang it.
I agree about the underquilt.
I have a three season UQ and jokingly refer to it as a one-season quilt as it gets cold on the ridges in spring/fall weather. That said, combined with stuffing clothing between the hammock layers to add insulation where needed, I'm generally fine even in wind/rain on ridges down to at least 40-45 and maybe even a little colder. For the through-hike, I might consider taking on the added weight of a winter quilt as northern ridges can get fairly cool at night. Remember: hammock ices over first in cold weather.
I currently use a Hennessy Ultralite Backpacker---classic bottom entry version. I don't use all of the underquilts etc. I use a sleeping pad. HOWEVER, I would do somethings differently on thru hike--or if I got a new hammock (which I will do in the next year or so).
1) I would get a slightly larger fly than the standard issue one. A tiny bit larger fly would add a small amount of extra weight--but it would offer better protection from the rain. A bigger fly would also be easier to "live" under for a full day if the rain was continuous and horrid. The standard issue fly keeps you confined to a VERY small area in a rainstorm--and it has to be lined up "just right" in order to offer the ultimate protection from the rain. If I were going to be gone for 5-6 months using the hammock, there would almost certainly be SEVERAL times when having a slightly larger fly would come in handy. (I think this would probably be true with most hammocks--not just the Hennessy). I am not saying get a giant tarp or fly--but get an adequate size fly to make life reasonably comfortable if you need to "hunker down" for a day or two.
2) I would get a top or side entry hammock. (I would modify my current bottom entry Hennessy if I wasn't already in my 6th season with it. They now sell the side entry zipper versions) . Side/top entry is easier to get in and out of--especially if you are using an internal sleeping pad instead of exterior under quilt. Side entry also makes it easier to use the hammock as a chair---this is especially important (for me) if you have an all day rain. (A "chair" option makes it feel less confined if you have to be "indoors" for 8 to 30 hours of continuous rain. Otherwise, you pretty much need to lay down the entire time. Not fun).
I have really enjoyed my classic Hennessy Ultralite Backpacker Hammock---even with the standard-issue fly and bottom entry. However, I would want to make the above modifications if it was going to be my "home" for 5-6 consecutive months.
IMO - Do a couple of shake down hikes one in colder and wet weather.
You can build a M55 XP quilt for like $100-130.
You need an underquilt or some sort of under insulation.
Go on youtube and look up Loner2012AT
He just finished the AT with a UL hammock setup.
Down bag, down underquilt, nice Tarp, Nano hammock most of the way.
His nano hammock failed at about 3/4.
He video documented his entire hike and he talks about his gear at around video 20 and a little more at 58.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nVoX6mlmdI&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sTft2mLI0k&feature=plcp
If you have a setup similar to his you will do okay, but I would take a bit heavier longer double layer and add a small pad in case you end up on the ground.
I think his base weight is like 9-10# or so.
You really only need one night of testing.
1. Find friend or shop who can loan/rent a hammock to try.
2. Find a cold night.
3. Hang 1 night in the cold with everything you would be comfortable bringing (use a pad instead of UQ.)
If you are like me, you will realize that a pad doesn't cut it and you would be crazy to try a thru-hike without purchasing a UQ as well, costing a few hundred dollars minimum. YMMV
This is what I would do....
To save $ build a gathered end double 1.1 ripstop hammock, 5x10,11 or 12, depending on your height - $20-30.
Check Walmart bargain bin, $1.50 per yd. magnafabrics has dig camo 1.1 for $1.25 per yard.
I am 6'3 and I prefer a 12' hammock.
Make some whoopie slings and tree huggers.
Dont forget the drip string.
Try it out and if you can sleep in it keep on going.
If good to go - Build a drape bug net or just use a head net.
Get the mesh from Zpacks 0.6oz/yd
Buy a good tarp based on the length of your hammock. Typical ridgline is about 83% of the total length.
Shaped like Loners will be lightest.
A 10x12 sil-nylon is huge and big enough to close the ends, IE doors.
The tadpole like Loner used is $85. You can get a 10x12 sil from campmor for $120.
Buy a good underquilt. They are bulky so go down. Loners setup worked. 3/4 20dF UQ and a foot pad.
That Wilderness Logics UQ cost $175.
Personally I'd be MUCH happier sitting/lounging in my hammock than in any backpacking style tent. I would be much more comfortable, probably drier, enjoying a much better view and perhaps heating up a cup of Joe while using my hammock as a lounge chair.
To answer the OP...I used a WM 30 degree bag down to the low twenties on my hike this year...usually open as a top quilt. I don't think I ever zipped it up. I did use an underquilt but considered a Neo Air Xlite for those couple of times I considered staying in a shelter. They both weigh about the same. If you go that route you will probably need extra padding in the shoulder area. I cut a Thermarest Z Lite cut in half. It doubles as a really nice sit pad.
I found the hammock way more comfortable and easier to find a spot to hang. I rarely stayed at shelter areas. I never got wet in my hammock nor did my down gear.
Cat in the Hat
What tarp did you use for your hammock system for your thru hike?