Pack cover vs pack liner vs stuff sacks?

[bob992]

Hi Everyone,

I'm trying to decide which route it takes when it comes to keeping my gear dry inside of my pack. There are a number of options available and I can't quite tell if one is superior to another, especially when it comes to most bang for least weight.

Pack covers obviously have their drawbacks, as they are seem to be similiar to a shower cap. However, they do keep your pack from gaining water weight.

Pack liners seem to be a popular option, but I wonder about organization inside one big liner.

Stuff sacks give you organizational benefits, but could add up the ounces if you use several.

I was hoping to solicit some expert advice on a good system to keep my stuff dry and weight down.

Thanks!

[Sarcasm the elf]

Here's my take in it:

Your sleeping bag should aways be in a waterproof bag stuff sack regardless of what other measures you take. If you take a down jacket or any similar insulating items on a trip where rain is a possibility then it should also be in a waterproof bag of some sort. I keep all my small important stuff in a separate gallon ziplock freezer bag. This includes cellphone, any electronics, my small first aid kit and pill bottle, wallet and anything else that can be easily lost or destroyed. My food bag is waterproof as well since I often hang it overnight in the rain. Once these items are sufficiently protected, there's really nothing else in my pack that couldn't survive getting wet.

I've used bags as liners in the past. Regular garbage bags don't stand up to the abuse of hiking for very long, get something tougher, 3mil contractor bags work decently although I have trouble finding ones that are the right size for my pack. If you have a top loading pack, you will soon find that "organization" is not something to worry about, you will end up unloading the whole thing at night and then packing everything back in each morning. Just put the items you might need throughout the day at the top of the pack or in the side pockets and you should be good.

I do own a silnylon pack cover, but I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth it to use one. The big advantage (in theory) to these is when hiking in torrential rain, they can prevent your pack's fabric from getting completely soaked, heavy and miserable. If you do get a pack cover, consider getting one that it day-glow (hunter) orange, that makes it a useful thing to have since it will keep you visible if you hike during fall deer or spring turkey hunting season.

[Astro]

First, welcome to White Blaze! And congratulations on your first post.

Don't know that I would consider myself an "expert", but I would say go with all 3. The cover keeps most of the rain out and gaining water weight as you say. A trash compactor bag helps in case some water does get through, and the stuff sacks help keep everything organized. The key if you are concerned about weight is making sure all of these are made with light weight materials.

[Stir Fry]

I use all 3, you can never be to safe. Pack liner is .51 cuben fiber .75 oz. doubles as a full pack cover at night in camp. All my stuff sacks are Cuben. .3 oz each, use 5, two are food bags. Cover is also Cuben and is 1.75 oz. Using this system I have never had a problem with things getting wet.

[Seldomseen]

As light as sil nylon is I would carry one.

[Rasty]

I use all 3, you can never be to safe. Pack liner is .51 cuben fiber .75 oz. doubles as a full pack cover at night in camp. All my stuff sacks are Cuben. .3 oz each, use 5, two are food bags. Cover is also Cuben and is 1.75 oz. Using this system I have never had a problem with things getting wet.

Same system except 3 sil nylon because I had them already for the stuff sacks. Let it rain. Everything stays dry.

I also use an Outdoor Research Kitchen organizer for every small item which reduces the searching through my pack. I keep batteries, medicine, spoon, 35' of 2mm cord, bug spray, seasonings, etc. At night it hangs up inside my tent and I have easy access to anything needed. It weighs 4 ounces empty which isn't two bad.

[moof53]

Hi,


Over the years I have found I like to use a dry sack and put just those items that need to remain dry, my sleeping bag, sleep clothes, any cold weather gear such as a down sweater or down jacket, extra socks and change of clothes in the sack. I find having every thing in one place instead of several different bags make it easier to keep track of in camp or in the dark. Especially after multiple days on the trail. When I get to a campsite I can get the tent pitched then just pull the dry sack out of the pack and put it into the tent getting to things as needed. By the time I remove the dry sack the pack is pretty much empty and I can hang it up or put it in the vestibule of the tent for the night. Next morning I can just throw the items I removed back into the sack, seal it, compress it down to a very small size since it has an air valve and put it back into the backpack. Throw in my stove bag, food bag, sleeping pad in its stuff sack and tent (just stuffed into the backpack) on top of the dry sack and I am pretty much ready to go. I got use to a dry sack from my military days many years ago and I guess I am just use to it. I do keep one small dry sack for items that need to remain dry but readily accessible such as a down sweater, first aid packet, warm hat, glove liners, etc. This is usually at the very top of the pack for accessibility. I have never had anything get wet that was inside the ILBE (even after slipping during a stream crossing and falling into the water with the pack on).


The dry sack I like and use is the Seal Line ILBE. It comes in either a 56 Liter or 65 Liter size. The 56 Liter is plenty big enough for a medium size pack such as a Kifaru, KU3700 Ultra Light, 3,700 Liter pack or maybe a more familiar Gregory, Z55, 3,400 Liter pack. The ILBE is made of waterproof material with a fold down top. There is an air valve in the bag with a manual open and close that allows air to be purged as the top is rolled down and the items inside are compressed. If you like gear with more than one feature the bag can be turned inside out and it becomes an orange emergency panel. And, since it is airtight it can be allowed to fill with air, sealed, and it becomes a flotation aid.


For the smaller dry sack I use either a Sea to Summit eVent style dry bag or a small Seal Line dry sack called a MAC sack. The MAC sack is a based upon the ILBE but is only 9 Liters. Just so you know the 56L ILBE weighs about 12.6 oz and has an interior capacity of about 3,400 cu. in..


I am not affiliated with any of the companies mentioned above. I am just a retired backpacker who uses the gear mentioned. Hope this is a help.

[Del Q]

I also use all 3 - to me its worth the small amount of extra weight to have the extra "insurance" that my gear stays dry! Example - in sold weather a wet down bag would really stink. (being kind under WB rules)...and what would that weight to carry?

Just spent time in Vermont during my Fall section hike.........completed my 9th state!

1st six days were rainy...........with a pack cover, sea to summit inside sry sack and stuff sacks everything was 90% fine. Between humiditiy and water that just gets in, it went really well. Again, to me worth the extra weight.

[cabbagehead]

Use a cover. Use dry bags for stuff at the bottom of the pack (such as the sleeping bag). Everything else will stay dry enough. If it doesn't, you need to waterproof your pack cover.

[Bucho]

A pack cover will help keep your pack itself and contents of the outer pockets/brain dry but when rain runs down your back it hits the backpad (assuming that's your setup) it will wick right in and soak the inside anyway. I've even found the contents of my pack soaking wet on a nice sunny day just because of how much sweat the pack wicked in.

A liner will keep the gear in it dry (at least until it gets chewed up) except for the outer pockets/brain. In terms of organization, yeah it's sub-ideal but the more you use it the more you'll find that everything in your pack has a place.

[jakedatc]

Trash compactor bag for sleeping bag, insulation layers i'm not using. Everything else on top. electronics in zip lock.

adding a pack cover to save weight on water absorbed is silly because even when it is not raining you are still carrying extra weight. your shoulder straps and waist belt are the most absorbent part and those will get anyway.

i was in a torrential downpour for 2 miles and my pack fabric was dry overnight and nothing inside was wet.. in the compactor bag or not.

I really find it amusing when people have a pack cover on when there is no threat of rain

[jeffmeh]

Trash compactor bag liner, separate food bag, separate bag for down and dry clothes, sundries in ziplocs, and a Packa for the outside would be my preference.

[bob992]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide me with great information. I appreciate your details and thoroughness!

[rusty bumper]

Sleeping bag in stuff sack, clothes in stuff sack...both in trash compactor bag in bottom of pack. Food in Sea-to-Summit Ultra Sil Sack. Three small Sea-to Summit Ultra Sil Sacks...one for kitchen stuff, one for hygiene stuff, one as a ditty bag for all the misc. stuff...many of the items in the small S-t S sacks are collected into various sized zip-lock bags. Tent, rain gear, fuel bottle, water bottle, food bag hanging gear, DEET and Aqua Mira in outside mesh pockets. No pack cover.

[Bucho]

adding a pack cover to save weight on water absorbed is silly because even when it is not raining you are still carrying extra weight.
I think that whether or not a pack cover is silly has a lot to do with one's pack. Back when I hiked with an external frame pack there wasn't a pad that sat against my back and there were a whole bunch of different pockets that a liner wouldn't protect. With that pack my pack cover worked well.

With newer packs that sit directly against the back and are basically just the one big pocket pack covers aren't a very adequate solution. I think they're as commonly used as they are on account of sort of being grandfathered in.

[jakedatc]

True, also the old frame packs were made out of less coated material. i think most packs now are made of at least some sort of impregnated nylon that is water resistant. the newer cottage built packs are made of even more resistant material.. silnylon, Xpac, cuben etc and made with roll top closures instead of drawstrings.

[Cadenza]

All my down goes in roll top dry bags in the bottom of the pack.
The top quilt and under quilt are in one bag. If it's cold weather I have a smaller bag for down vest, down hood, down sleeves, and down socks. (sleepwear)
Down is worth protecting at all costs. I don't consider the weight of a sil-nylon or cuben dry bag to be much of a penalty.

I don't really worry about anything else getting wet. I have a cuben Packa that doubles as a rain jacket/pack cover.
Almost always carry a contractors bag and seldom ever use it. I'm more likely to use it to cover and protect firewood than anything.

[fredmugs]

Pack covers only the keep the back side dry. The area between your back and the pack is going to get wet. I use a sil nylon pack liner and then my valuable items I keep in stuff sacks. I have a poncho that also covers my pack.

[Starchild]

I view it as more weatherproofing then waterproofing. Only sleeping gear and electronics stay in a watertight bag. Everything else I try to pack weathertight using layers, each to deflect as much water as they can. The pack cover comes out and sheds the majority of the water when the rain starts - this sometimes is enough and the pack stays dry inside. That pack cover also serves to put under my pack in the tent vestibule.


The pack is in itself water resistant even the zippers on my pack are the rubber sealing type.


A plastic garbage bag or contractor bag usually is inside the pack holding most dry non-sleeping clothes items except for a few 'quick grab' ones which I place in a more convenient pouch. The garbage bag sometimes will get ripped, the contractor bag less so, I just try to position it so that if water would get to it that water would shed off and not find its way into any holes in the bag. The bag also allows easier packing as it is a slipperier surface. The bag also allows the packing of wet stuff next to dry, like a wet tent and a wet shirt on the outside of the contractor bag and the clothes inside.

I could see trying it without the pack cover, as that would be the natural one to leave behind, but that would risk getting quite a bit of water soaked materials and to me not worth it unless I knew the weather had very little risk of rain.


Pack covers only the keep the back side dry. The area between your back and the pack is going to get wet. I use a sil nylon pack liner and then my valuable items I keep in stuff sacks. I have a poncho that also covers my pack.

There are ponchos that cover both the pack and yourself which do eliminate this. However I find that setup not as flexible as there are times I want to hike without rain gear and just gat wet and stay cool, but still want to protect my pack.

[Drybones]

I used a poncho that covered my pack as well, the pack I used was pretty water tight and I put gear in waterproof stuff sacks, more for organization than waterproofing.

[jeffmeh]

There are ponchos that cover both the pack and yourself which do eliminate this. However I find that setup not as flexible as there are times I want to hike without rain gear and just gat wet and stay cool, but still want to protect my pack.

This is one of the key features that make the Packa is such an ingenious piece of gear, IMO.

[Hosaphone]

1 big pack liner for me. Organization not a problem. Just pack so that things you need to access during the day are towards the top, and nothing on the outside that can't get wet.