View Full Version : Donations ??? Accepted/Suggested/Mandatory
greywolf1974
10-21-2012, 11:40
Help me understand the whole "donation" thing. Some hostels say "Donations Accepted" or "Your donations help run the hostel" ect... but they do not mention an ammount. Then there are hostels that have suggested donations. Then there are the ones with a mandatory donation. Is that still a donation? I thought a donation was given freely by a person, and whatever ammount they wanted. Why dont they just call it like it is and say "It costs X ammount for bunk, X to camp..ect"? Is it a tax thing? , Do the hostels word it like that so as not to be taxed?
Old Hiker
10-21-2012, 11:58
I believe if you use the services, you pay. I also believe the "donations" were for a time where there was more honor and honesty in the world and less "gimmee" mentality.
WingedMonkey
10-21-2012, 12:09
Originally only legitimate non profits supported hostels that asked for "donations". Now it seems to be used by anyone who doesn't want to wade through the paper work required to ask for a set price.
It seems to blur the meaning of "donation".
My opinion, others surely disagree strongly:
Donation: Voluntary, if you have/can spare the funds please help us out. (I always contribute and think most hikers, under normal circumstances, should as well.)
Suggested Donation: Voluntary, this is the amount we need based on the number of people who normally stay and our costs, to break even money-wise. (I always give more than the suggested donation to help make up for those who cannot/will not contribute. I think most hikers, thru or section, should do this as well under normal circumstances.)
Fee or Charge/day: Not voluntary. If you cannot pay this, do not stay here or avail yourself of the facilities. The owner needs at least this much to keep the facility open. Freeloaders not to be tolerated.
In other words, the term "donation" implies that it is voluntary, and that if you cannot pay, or can only partially pay, you are still welcome to stay and use the facilities. I assume there are other sources of funding that pick up the slack.
That said, if you are on vacation for six months to "find yourself" or whatever your reason, you should be able to pay your way, including contributing your share of the operating costs of the facilities you use, but these facilities are asking for this ambiguity and abuse by referring to their expected "fees" as "donations". I have less sympathy for them when they get stiffed.
ChinMusic
10-21-2012, 12:53
Originally only legitimate non profits supported hostels that asked for "donations". Now it seems to be used by anyone who doesn't want to wade through the paper work required to ask for a set price.
It seems to blur the meaning of "donation".
THIS
It is a way for a business to avoid regulations/paperwork/etc that may lead them to not offering their services. Often "donation" is a tax/regulation dodge.
Originally only legitimate non profits supported hostels that asked for "donations". Now it seems to be used by anyone who doesn't want to wade through the paper work required to ask for a set price.
It seems to blur the meaning of "donation".
THIS
It is a way for a business to avoid regulations/paperwork/etc that may lead them to not offering their services. Often "donation" is a tax/regulation dodge.
It also keeps the room occupancy tax away. Most states this tax is more than $10 a night.
Slo-go'en
10-21-2012, 15:38
It also keeps the room occupancy tax away. Most states this tax is more than $10 a night.
Usually the tax is a precentage. In NH rooms and meals tax is now 9%.
The problem is, if some disgruntaled hiker makes a complaint to the state or town about their "manditory donation", or they find out some other way, the hostel owner could find themselfs in a heap of trouble. There might be a few private hostels with manitory donations, but all the one's I've ever been to have a set rate (usually $20). Kincora is the only private hostel I can think of which has a true voluntery donation system.
Help me understand the whole "donation" thing. Some hostels say "Donations Accepted" or "Your donations help run the hostel" ect... but they do not mention an ammount. Then there are hostels that have suggested donations. Then there are the ones with a mandatory donation. Is that still a donation? I thought a donation was given freely by a person, and whatever ammount they wanted. Why dont they just call it like it is and say "It costs X ammount for bunk, X to camp..ect"? Is it a tax thing? , Do the hostels word it like that so as not to be taxed?
I think you seem to understand how this works pretty well. But there are many on here and in the real world on the trail that cannot grasp the definition of the word "donation."
A donation is voluntary...so if that's what the sign says, you'll have to decide whether or not you want to volunteer. I personally think its pretty tacky for someone to tell you how much you should donate to any charitable cause, but others here disagree.
Many hostels operate in gray areas of the law. If they charge a fee and operate as a business then there are building codes and inspections and taxes etc, etc. If they ask for a donation then the bureaucrats let them slide on a lot of that stuff. But the reality is that if you want the protection of the law then you have to follow it, so by avoiding all those rules and taxes they give up the ability to enforce a price for their services.
license, zoning, codes, inspection, insurance, taxes etc. - all avoided my "donations" - if hostels tried to run legit 9/10 would close - hikers will not pay the needed rates
It's really not that hard to understand, for all intents and purposes as far as the trail is concerned, donations are a gift for services rendered. If you're using a service, you need to contribute something. If it's a suggested donation that's the amount, but of course you can leave more. If it's donations accepted, you figure out what's it's worth, but it's worth something.
There's really no other term that applies when the amount (suggested or above) is left up to the "donor". What would you say, $5 rate suggested, rates accepted?
A donation is voluntary...so if that's what the sign says, you'll have to decide whether or not you want to volunteer. I personally think its pretty tacky for someone to tell you how much you should donate to any charitable cause, but others here disagree.
Not if you're using the service is a donation voluntary, only the amount. If you don't want to contribute, don't stay or use the facilities.
The charitable cause in this case is the hiker that needs service, not the hostel. :rolleyes:
If you can I recommend leaving more than the suggested donation to offset the loss from the deadbeats that don't leave anything, or worse take money.
If you use that facilities you should support them so they will remain. Every year it seems some hiker place closes down and it seems like a lot of time it's either due to lack of funds or hiker misbehavior.
So what would be a reasonable donation for a bunk, shower use of laundry facilities?
yellowsirocco
12-12-2012, 08:05
So what would be a reasonable donation for a bunk, shower use of laundry facilities?
Depends a lot on the quality and quantity of services as well as where you are on the trail. I always give a little less than the surrounding for profit hostels of the same quality or use those as a baseline. 10-15 is a good amount, if the hosts really take care of you like at the Blueberry Patch maybe 20
Donations are not Mandatory its on you to give whatever amount you want, and when a hostel asks for donations you don't have to give anything its just that a DONATION.
If a friend is gracious enough to put me up at his house, I offer him some money to offset the cost of food, the extra hot water my showers use, maybe extra air conditioning costs, certainly gas costs if he drives me around. If my brother drives me to the airport, I offer him some gas money.
If I stay at a hostel, somebody's paying a monetary cost to support me for that night -- hot water for the shower or the laundry, wear and tear on the bedding, extra toilet flushes, the lightbulb in the refrigerator... whatever. Living in a place costs some marginal amount of money, even if it's just an overnight.
Even if a place didn't ask for a donation, speaking as a guest who is extremely grateful for the hospitality that's being so generously offered, I'd feel honor-bound to offer a little something to defray the cost of my stay. It just feels like common courtesy, and the chivalrous thing to do.
I am a volunteer caretaker at the AMC cabin at Upper Goose Pond. At one time there was a posted charge of $3.00 to stay in the cabin and $2.00 to use a tent platform. This charge included a coffee and pancake breakfast. A few years ago the committie that oversees the cabin operation decided to do away with the posted rates and just ask for donations. After making this change the amount of funds collected each day stayed just about the same even though quit a few hikers do not donate.
Hikers rave about those blueberry pancakes. Sad to know some hikers think they don't need to donate.
Cookerhiker
12-12-2012, 13:08
Donations are not Mandatory its on you to give whatever amount you want, and when a hostel asks for donations you don't have to give anything its just that a DONATION.
In a strictly legal sense, that's right, you don't "have to give." But I don't have any respect for people who use hostels and don't donate because they don't "have to." We can do the right thing without being required to.
ChinMusic
12-12-2012, 14:05
In a strictly legal sense, that's right, you don't "have to give." But I don't have any respect for people who use hostels and don't donate because they don't "have to." We can do the right thing without being required to.
this
The same right that allows them not to donate is the one that allows me to call them a dick.
In a strictly legal sense, that's right, you don't "have to give." But I don't have any respect for people who use hostels and don't donate because they don't "have to." We can do the right thing without being required to.
I agrree.
Most donation hostels use this loophole to be able provide services at the minimum cost to the hiker and break even, not make extra money. They do it to help out and be a part of the trail community. Sadly there are those void of consideration or character who use donation as their own selfish loophole. These self entitled "dick" leeches are the parasites of the traill.
RESECT- not EXPECT
Speaking of dictionary definitions, here's one:
freeloader: "To take advantage of the charity, generosity, or hospitality of others."
Hill Ape
12-12-2012, 14:42
its means pony up $20, for the bed, the power, the hot water, flushing the toilet, etc. don't be a mooch, don't expect trail magic, carry your own weight in all things in life. it means clean up after yourself, even if your mother is hiking with you
there is no rule saying you have to stay in a hostel, even though it's become the new normal... nothing in life is free, if you don't wanna contribute, don't use the service, stay on the trail and tent
it means clean up after yourself, even if your mother is hiking with you
Especially if your mother is hiking with you. :D
Velvet Gooch
12-12-2012, 15:00
dick
Commenting on dick. Also, cawk
Vacation in: THREE... TWO... ONE...
Hill Ape
12-12-2012, 15:01
you calling my mom dirty?! :mad:
Donations are not Mandatory its on you to give whatever amount you want, and when a hostel asks for donations you don't have to give anything its just that a DONATION.
Dude, a "donation" is something given.
Something that is given to a charity, esp. a sum of money
I don't see anything about being voluntary. If a donation is being asked for, it's up to the user of the service to give something besides lip service..
As another pointed out being a dick or a dead beat is a different matter.