View Full Version : Guns
Austin_Knott
10-25-2012, 13:07
Is a gun needed? Not for the intent of killing, but for the intent of safety?
Will be hiking SoBo in June with my friend and 2 dogs. I don't think I will need a gun, but my friend thinks that it may help in the 100 mile wilderness section for dog food, or even food for us.
Plus, I am worried about carrying a gun through a number of different states.
What are thru-hikers opinions of this?
Yes, carry a gun and blast anything that moves and then feed to your dogs. That way you never have to carry food for them. If you are already planning on shooting animals for your dogs then you clearly have not planned enough or thought this out.
In general the safety on the trail is better than most cities. People are actually friendly on the trail...for the most part. There are many hikers on the trail that dont care for dogs. If the dogs are not well behaved and excellently trained and you are not willing to carry their food or clean up after them, then do everyone a favor and leave them at home. Dont bring them.
17878
Rather take a gun for hunting (which may not be legal in Maine at the time of the year), better to pack the appropriate amount of food.
If your schedule permits, I strongly suggest you get out for a one week backpacking trip to dial-in your system first.
Finally: Two dogs may be logistically difficult. (All the more more reason to get out for a week IMO)
hikerboy57
10-25-2012, 13:15
if you can hit a tick from 25 yards, bring the gun. ticks are the biggest threat to a thru hike.you dont need a gun. if youre going to carry, make sure you check the lawsand do it legally.
88BlueGT
10-25-2012, 13:26
You CAN carry but I'm sure you will make a lot of people uncomfortable. I get grilled for carrying a regular sized knife, couldn't imagine the heat I would catch if I were packing!
Train Wreck
10-25-2012, 13:34
To the OP -
:welcome!
You have lots of time between now and June to visit this forum and learn tons of useful information. Research threads, read, and post questions. Most members are helpful - just ignore the random few who always seem to get up on the wrong side of the bed in the morning :)
I don't have a gun, and I don't know diddly about guns or gun laws, but I'm sure there is a legal age to carry, which may vary in each state. That alone may settle your question about taking a gun. The overwhelming majority feel that guns are unnecessary. Opinions are divided about taking dogs on the trail.
By the time June rolls around, you will have a lot more information and knowledge to help you on your hike. Good luck!
Feral Bill
10-25-2012, 14:09
Is a gun needed? Not for the intent of killing, but for the intent of safety?
Will be hiking SoBo in June with my friend and 2 dogs. I don't think I will need a gun, but my friend thinks that it may help in the 100 mile wilderness section for dog food, or even food for us.
Plus, I am worried about carrying a gun through a number of different states.
What are thru-hikers opinions of this? There is no legal way for you to carry a handgun in some states. In view of your age, probably all of them (possibly excepting Vermont). A rifle is even more dead weight, and probably also illegal in most places (hunting laws and park regulations). If you insist on bringing dogs, have them carry their own food.
Train Wreck
10-25-2012, 14:17
I'm just waiting for someone to come on board this thread, not notice the age and inexperience of the OP, and try to start something. Hope not.
Spirit Bear
10-25-2012, 14:19
You and your friend will be posted on this site as a warning to others this June
WingedMonkey
10-25-2012, 14:24
You are seventeen now? When I was seventeen I was already teaching NRA Hunters Firearms Safety and Small Arms Safety, long before Florida required them to get a license. When I was twenty-one I was running the rifle range at the local Boy Scout camp.
I would suggest you find the nearest Hunters Firearm Safety course in your county ad sign up. According to the North Carolina Hunting web site;
instruction includes ethics and responsibility, conservation and wildlife management, wildlife identification, survival and first aid, specialty hunting and tree stand safety.
While you are there, some old-timers will also tell you that the chance of killing game for dog food with a pistol is remote.
Alleghanian Orogeny
10-25-2012, 14:29
Irrespective of the practicalities of killing game for dog food, or lack of same, hunting is subject to strict seasons as to what species can be taken and by what methods. I have never heard of any state having an open season on small game in June-July-August. This aside from the myriad of state laws concerning carrying firearms.
The better idea is to leave the dogs, and the weapons, at home.
AO
Slo-go'en
10-25-2012, 14:34
If you run out of food in 100 mile wilderness, the gun might be handy to shot the dogs so you have something to eat. Your dogs will be the only thing bigger than a chipmonk you'll see out there and will provide a much better meal.
tjkenney67
10-25-2012, 14:53
I would recommend a M 249 SAW (shoulder sling is adaptable to any UL pack)... with your parents permission of course.
Serious side : I have been reading WB religously everyday for the past few months gaining valuable information on gear, techniques and experience. It's a weatlh of great information. I too am very excited about my 2013 Thru. However every so often a post like this comes along... and I can't help but to chime in.
Not to shine a mirror on myself, but from the time I was 18, I carried a gun as a police officer. I never once fired it in the line of duty, however would have been justified several times. Over the years I did see way too many civilians with no firearms or tactical training carrying weapons claiming for self defense purposes. This is a recipe for disaster.
At 17 years old, a gun should be the last thing on your mind (unless you're and avid hunter). Situational Awareness is the key to your safety. The best way to defend an attack is to anticipate an attack. This can be applied to all aspects of your hike including paying attention to weather conditions, geography, knowing how to use your equipment to the best of its ability, the ability to remain calm in a stressful situation and lastly identifying a potential two legged threat.
Your focus should be on the Trail, an adventure of your life, and life experience of independancy and responsibility at your age. Do yourself a favor... avoid the guns, enjoy your hike and by all means bring dog food.
Sorry if I sound like your father...
"Ultimate victory is in avoiding the fight."
- Sun Tzu
SassyWindsor
10-25-2012, 14:55
Keep us up to date on how this works out for ya.
hikerboy57
10-25-2012, 15:01
I would recommend a M 249 SAW (shoulder sling is adaptable to any UL pack)... with your parents permission of course.
Serious side : I have been reading WB religously everyday for the past few months gaining valuable information on gear, techniques and experience. It's a weatlh of great information. I too am very excited about my 2013 Thru. However every so often a post like this comes along... and I can't help but to chime in.
Not to shine a mirror on myself, but from the time I was 18, I carried a gun as a police officer. I never once fired it in the line of duty, however would have been justified several times. Over the years I did see way too many civilians with no firearms or tactical training carrying weapons claiming for self defense purposes. This is a recipe for disaster.
At 17 years old, a gun should be the last thing on your mind (unless you're and avid hunter). Situational Awareness is the key to your safety. The best way to defend an attack is to anticipate an attack. This can be applied to all aspects of your hike including paying attention to weather conditions, geography, knowing how to use your equipment to the best of its ability, the ability to remain calm in a stressful situation and lastly identifying a potential two legged threat.
Your focus should be on the Trail, an adventure of your life, and life experience of independancy and responsibility at your age. Do yourself a favor... avoid the guns, enjoy your hike and by all means bring dog food.
Sorry if I sound like your father...
"Ultimate victory is in avoiding the fight."
- Sun Tzu
youve said it better than any of us
Slo-go'en, i wanted to say that but i thought it sounded mean and heartless and i have been trying to watch my manners around here.
bigcranky
10-25-2012, 15:14
You don't need firearm. The dogs will be difficult - yes, there have been dogs who have completed thru-hikes, but countless others did not. Bringing a dog greatly elevates the responsibilities you will have on the trail -- kind of like taking a toddler with you.
If you get a week for spring break this year, go hiking out in the mountains of NC or Georgia. That will help a lot with your planning for June.
I would recommend a M 249 SAW (shoulder sling is adaptable to any UL pack)... with your parents permission of course.
Serious side : I have been reading WB religously everyday for the past few months gaining valuable information on gear, techniques and experience. It's a weatlh of great information. I too am very excited about my 2013 Thru. However every so often a post like this comes along... and I can't help but to chime in.
Not to shine a mirror on myself, but from the time I was 18, I carried a gun as a police officer. I never once fired it in the line of duty, however would have been justified several times. Over the years I did see way too many civilians with no firearms or tactical training carrying weapons claiming for self defense purposes. This is a recipe for disaster.
At 17 years old, a gun should be the last thing on your mind (unless you're and avid hunter). Situational Awareness is the key to your safety. The best way to defend an attack is to anticipate an attack. This can be applied to all aspects of your hike including paying attention to weather conditions, geography, knowing how to use your equipment to the best of its ability, the ability to remain calm in a stressful situation and lastly identifying a potential two legged threat.
Your focus should be on the Trail, an adventure of your life, and life experience of independancy and responsibility at your age. Do yourself a favor... avoid the guns, enjoy your hike and by all means bring dog food.
Sorry if I sound like your father...
"Ultimate victory is in avoiding the fight."
- Sun Tzu
Great advice. Maybe the reason I think it is great advice is because I am old enough to be the OPs father. I definitely believe in a persons rights to bear arms, especially in self defense. However, you do not need a gun on the AT. Your best weapon against potential harm is your brain and sound judgement.
If you think you need a gun, you're probably not ready to bring dogs on a long hike.
Tipi Walter
10-25-2012, 15:50
Yes, carry a gun and blast anything that moves and then feed to your dogs. That way you never have to carry food for them.
I would recommend a M 249 SAW (shoulder sling is adaptable to any UL pack)... with your parents permission of course.
These are excellent responses and I'd like to add one more from the foremost backpacking experts in America, Jackie and Jeremy Blowhole. They were asked a similar question on an Expert Roundtable hosted by Kurbin Toment and here's their answer---
"Next question---Should I carry a rifle while hiking the Appalachian Trail?"
BLOWHOLES: "Weapons are important when backpacking and we've carried everything from slingshots and crossbows to mortar tubes and crew serviced 20mm canons. You have to find what's comfortable for you and how much firepower you feel you need when encountering questionable characters on the trail. Sometimes a simple ring of punji pits dug around the tent will suffice, other times you've got to have claymore mines set out for protection. The rule of thumb is 75% of your total pack weight should be in weapons and ammo."
Drybones
10-25-2012, 15:54
IMO, the dogs will add a degree of complexity to the hike that could make it difficult to manage. Not only will you have to find food for yourself but also dog food. The stuff I found to eat on the trail sometimes, I would not feed my dog (IE: snikers, pies, junk food, etc), and I'd have trouble sharing my cheeseburger. Dogs are not allowed in GSMNP so you'd have to plan some way of having them transported around the park. As for the gun, you dont need it.
Cookerhiker
10-25-2012, 16:00
... The rule of thumb is 75% of your total pack weight should be in weapons and ammo."
Ah, now we know why your pack is so heavy!;)
Tipi Walter
10-25-2012, 16:03
Ah, now we know why your pack is so heavy!;)
You just can't be too safe.
+1 to tjkenny on Situational Awareness speaking as another who has carried weapons for a living.
-1 to tjkenny on the M249SAW go for the 240B sure it's heavier but well worth it, so much more reliable. Also spread the weight out by having your dogs carry ammo since they won't be carrying food.
To the OP: First there is host of legal issues if you plan to hunt (as well a huge issue of realism) with a rifle. There is no legal way for you ( due to your age) to carry a handgun even an open carry without a CCL is not option, and hunting with a handgun is pretty ineffective. Lastly if you don't have intent to kill then you have no business carrying a firearm, the worst thing you can do in seriously threatening situation is introduce a firearm, that you are not trained to use ( and I don't just mean knowing how to fire it). Luckily for you the AT is pretty darn safe and the vast majority of people hike it just fine with no firearms, and so can you.
Met a kid starting SOBO in July of 2012 carrying not 1, not 2, but 3 GD Ka-Bars. I asked him why he brought them he said bears. So asked him when you see a bear what are you gonna do, Juggle?.
melaniebk
10-25-2012, 18:54
I would recommend a M 249 SAW (shoulder sling is adaptable to any UL pack)... with your parents permission of course.
Serious side : I have been reading WB religously everyday for the past few months gaining valuable information on gear, techniques and experience. It's a weatlh of great information. I too am very excited about my 2013 Thru. However every so often a post like this comes along... and I can't help but to chime in.
Not to shine a mirror on myself, but from the time I was 18, I carried a gun as a police officer. I never once fired it in the line of duty, however would have been justified several times. Over the years I did see way too many civilians with no firearms or tactical training carrying weapons claiming for self defense purposes. This is a recipe for disaster.
At 17 years old, a gun should be the last thing on your mind (unless you're and avid hunter). Situational Awareness is the key to your safety. The best way to defend an attack is to anticipate an attack. This can be applied to all aspects of your hike including paying attention to weather conditions, geography, knowing how to use your equipment to the best of its ability, the ability to remain calm in a stressful situation and lastly identifying a potential two legged threat.
Your focus should be on the Trail, an adventure of your life, and life experience of independancy and responsibility at your age. Do yourself a favor... avoid the guns, enjoy your hike and by all means bring dog food.
Sorry if I sound like your father...
"Ultimate victory is in avoiding the fight."
- Sun Tzu Thank you; that was very well said.
TJ aka Teej
10-25-2012, 19:10
my friend thinks that it may help in the 100 mile wilderness section for dog food, or even food for us.
Will you use your gun to rob the Abol Bridge store? Whitehouse Landing? Jo-Mary Campground? The store at Brownville Junction? The trailer campground by Gulf Hagas? The AMC resort just south of that? Gonna stick-up the other hikers who get food drops?
Lone Wolf
10-25-2012, 19:14
Will you use your gun to rob the Abol Bridge store? Whitehouse Landing? Jo-Mary Campground? The store at Brownville Junction? The trailer campground by Gulf Hagas? The AMC resort just south of that? Gonna stick-up the other hikers who get food drops?
shoot a moose probly
SassyWindsor
10-25-2012, 19:28
Not to get too technical, but to give friendly advice. It takes a balance between stopping power and weight of a gun. If you follow the "Hatcher" or the "one shot stops" protocol you'll see that the range of stopping power varies widely from a 22 to a 44 mag wad cutter. Ammo design is very critical in selection, you can double your rating within one calibre by selecting the right round. I choose to carry a Federal .380 round 90 gr JHP hydra-shok, the CorBon 90 grain JHP has about the same rating, but a little harder to obtain. I feel this has the best weight to stopping power for me while hiking, these rounds are at the very top in stopping power ratings for the .380. No one should fool with carrying a handgun unless they are very well experienced in the use of it. I never disclose, display or even talk about having one while hiking among strangers, but I'm alway on alert.
SassyW for some reason everything you said was strangely exciting. I like it!
My biggest objection to carrying guns on trails and /or in National Parks is what happens after the good -guy shooter misses their intended target -and in real world situations even well trained people usually miss their intended target
Where does the round wind up ?
It has to hit something or even worse somebody
A gsw that somebody would easily survive in a big city situation will easliy kill them in a remote environment .......and the person that killed that innocent fellow hiker might not be aware of their crime until long after the fact
Raymond James
10-26-2012, 08:45
My opinion. For a section hike bring the dog after you have trained it to carry its own pack and conditioned it to hiking, leave gun at home. For a thru hike leave the dogs and guns at home.
I have seen packs for dogs that were both purchased and home made in use but have no idea where to purchase or how to make.
Thirsty DPD
10-26-2012, 09:06
Austin,
Your best weapons are knowledge and experience. I would suggest emerse yourself in increasing your knowledge & backpacking skills. Find someone you respect and allow them to mentor you in your quest. You have a lot of time between now and June to test your skills on the trail. My personal opinion is; the confidence you gain by spending time on the trail with the knowledge you gain will eliminate your need for a gun. I hike & backpack w/ my dog, it takes considerable time to turn them into good trail citizens. Unless they gain as much trail experience as you, they may be a burden to you and others, and compromise your ability to have a successful thru hike. All of us on WB started somewhere, some of us would like you to believe we had our act together day one, don't get discouraged my any of it. Best to you in your quest.
There are so many dynamics at play here that I think this subject requires a conversation by phone or in person rather than forum with someone knowledgeable not only about the section you are hiking (most here are), but coupled with understanding of load, caliber and ballistic characteristics, barrel length, accessibility to the sidearm while maintaining concealment and not altering your ability to hike while doing so. Type of predator that you may be concerned about, etc. these are questions that need answers whether you are in a fairly innocuous area like HMW or in grizzly population like Denali National park. I have nothing against responsible adults that have a concealed carry permit carrying anywhere they please as long as its legal, regardless of what others on the trails opinion is of it. I carry most places, but like 1 of the other posters mentioned, you will never know about it unless you were with me if I happened to feel there was an imminent threat to my life or someone elses. Or you met me after reading this :) the major problem I see here is that you are not old enough to legally carry a handgun and caring a shoulder fired weapon for that distance and terrain coupled with managing dogs may make for a VERY long and arduous experience.
No guns on the AT please we have enough things to worry about, don't need to be worried about getting shot in the back by another hiker.
No guns on the AT please we have enough things to worry about, don't need to be worried about getting shot in the back by another hiker.
Red Dog, it's nice to want that but the trail doesn't belong to any one person and as long as one complies with the applicable laws in that particular state in which they are traveling, then we can wish all we want. I carry concealed almost everywhere i go and certainly in the backcountry regardless of how safe history dictates that area is. NOONE is aware or ever needs to be aware of it unless the very unlikely event that i would feel a justifiable threat necessitating lethal force is needed. There are a host of issues that i find in the OP's posed question which is the reason for my answer. he is neither of age and also clearly lacks experience in this area. the not of age part automatically disqualifies his post and if he chooses to still carry he would be doing so illegally which means you request will go unheeded anyway. If i never need to remove my sidearm from concealment, then i look at it as the best $900.00 i ever spent because most likely i am still breathing. He made a poor choice in bringing this topic up in a forum dedicated to AT hikers, the vast majority of whom would never carry out there and based on historical statistics should feel completely comfortable doing so. I would venture to say that the odds of being struck by a bullet while on the trail would be far greater coming from the barrel of a hunter than a responsible legal carrying adult.
Old Hiker
10-26-2012, 12:20
.................................................. .
BLOWHOLES: "Weapons are important when backpacking and we've carried everything from slingshots and crossbows to mortar tubes and crew serviced 20mm canons. ........................................" (emphasis added)
Tipi, could you contact the Blowholes and try to get them to clarify the type of canon they are talking about, please? Will the crew also be available to carry my gear? Or just to serve me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man) ? I'm so confused!!
a. A canon is a contrapuntal (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Counterpoint) compositional technique that employs a melody (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Melody) with one or more imitations (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Imitation_(music)) of the melody played after a given duration (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Duration_(music)) (e.g., quarter rest, one measure, etc.).
b. A biblical canon, or canon of scripture,[1] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-0) is a list of books considered to be authoritative scripture (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Scripture) by a particular religious community.
c. A canon (from the Latin (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Latin) canonicus, itself derived from the Greek (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Greek_language) κανονικός, kanonikós, "relating to a rule", "regulary") is a priest (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Priest) or minister (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Minister_(Christianity)) who is a member of certain bodies of the Christian (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Christianity) clergy (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Clergy) subject to an ecclesiastical rule (canon (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Canon_law)).
I just want to be sure I carry the "right" kind on my next thru-attempt! Thanks in advance. :)
My experience is they are just unnecessary weight. Would be difficult to put into play quickly. That said if one insists make it a wheelgun so one knows it will work.
No guns on the AT please we have enough things to worry about, don't need to be worried about getting shot in the back by another hiker.
Red dog, I think you would be shocked to find out how many hikers legally carry handguns on the AT everyday.
Can't remember when if ever that I heard of a hiker injuring someone with a gun. Just doesn't happen.
I think you can stop worrying.
The dangers of guns on the trail are just another made up fear.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Anybody that feels like they need a firearm on the AT or any other trail don't need to be out their and if you need a GUN to feel safe stay home the rest of us don't want or need your type on the trail.
hikerboy57
10-26-2012, 14:01
Red dog, I think you would be shocked to find out how many hikers legally carry handguns on the AT everyday.
Can't remember when if ever that I heard of a hiker injuring someone with a gun. Just doesn't happen.
I think you can stop worrying.
The dangers of guns on the trail are just another made up fear.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
the safety of carrying a gun on the trail is also a made up fear.what is everyone so afraid of? 5 murders in 75 years?please.
and i think the op was talking about using it for finding food, which is ludicrous.
Cookerhiker
10-26-2012, 14:15
(emphasis added)
....b. A biblical canon, or canon of scripture,[1] (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-0) is a list of books considered to be authoritative scripture (http://www.whiteblaze.net/wiki/Scripture) by a particular religious community.
.... :)
Thanks for asking. I sometimes carry a pocket New Testament but I'm not sure if it's 20 MM;)
Aquonehostel
10-26-2012, 14:54
I try not to get involved in these types of discussions, however sitting alone and laughing out load is good for the soul, very funny Slo-go'en
People, their are all sorts of irrational fears on the trail. the fact of the matter is that anyone that is carrying legally understands the burden of their responsibility and the consequences that follow for going outside the scope of lethal force burden. You will NEVER know that they are carrying. so at the end of the day, it is a tool no different from many others. The OP's post is invalid because of his age and if he decided to carry a handgun he would be in violation of the law and at that point anything you or i say to discourage him most likely will fall on deaf ears. If one is within their legal right to carry and wish to then our thoughts on the matter are of no relevant consequence outside of just wanting to vent. One's fear of a lawfully abiding citizen's choice to carry is just as unfounded as a black bear attack. The statistics of a bear attack are probably more likely than that of a mature responsible firearm owner discharging his/her weapon without merit. simple as that folks. let's step off our soapboxes for the moment.
Red Dog, let's be honest. You are entitled to you thoughts and opinions on the matter, but no law abiding gun owner gives two hoots whether you want or need their "type" on the trail. Your argument is baseless. I may or may not carry in many places i choose to go. If i do and was having a conversation you would never know it anyway, other than the fact that you have now read my thoughts on the matter ;)
jakedatc
10-26-2012, 15:25
"Public Reserved Lands Firearms: Loaded firearms are not permitted in campsites, on marked hiking trails, or at boat launching sites and picnic sites and shall not be discharged within 300 feet of such areas." -Maine (also says not within 100yds of a dwelling.. which would probably include a shelter)
SassyWindsor
10-26-2012, 15:30
..............Would be difficult to put into play quickly..............
How about 1.5 secs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8r6CY5UZyw
If it's winter and I'm all bundled up, maybe 2 secs.
hikerboy57
10-26-2012, 15:31
Red Dog, let's be honest. You are entitled to you thoughts and opinions on the matter, but no law abiding gun owner gives two hoots whether you want or need their "type" on the trail. Your argument is baseless. I may or may not carry in many places i choose to go. If i do and was having a conversation you would never know it anyway, other than the fact that you have now read my thoughts on the matter ;)
most "law abiding" gun owners arent going to make a public announcement that theyre carrying, as it is illegal in many areas. i have nothing against carrying, as long as theyre trained properly and abide by the laws.but most of the questions about carrying a gun on the AT come from people that have never shot a gun before.the argument usually ensues with the owners who are properly trained vs. those that dont believe guns are necessary.everyones right, and everyones wrong.
SassyWindsor
10-26-2012, 15:36
"Public Reserved Lands Firearms: Loaded firearms are not permitted in campsites, on marked hiking trails, or at boat launching sites and picnic sites and shall not be discharged within 300 feet of such areas." -Maine (also says not within 100yds of a dwelling.. which would probably include a shelter)
I'm fairly sure murder, rape and other such vile things are not permitted in campsites and marked hiking trails, etc either. So I guess everything is hunky dory and no self protection is required.
most "law abiding" gun owners arent going to make a public announcement that theyre carrying, as it is illegal in many areas. i have nothing against carrying, as long as theyre trained properly and abide by the laws.but most of the questions about carrying a gun on the AT come from people that have never shot a gun before.the argument usually ensues with the owners who are properly trained vs. those that dont believe guns are necessary.everyones right, and everyones wrong.
hikerboy57, i would have to agree that you summed it up pretty well :) the reality is that i do have a hard time reconciling the additional 2-3 lbs that will most likely never be put into play (thank God), especially when worrying about whether i need that coffee french press that will MOST definetly be put in play. anyway, i could just ask that a charging moose or bear have a cup of my java and that should just about take care of that :p
hikerboy57
10-26-2012, 15:39
I'm fairly sure murder, rape and other such vile things are not permitted in campsites and marked hiking trails, etc either. So I guess everything is hunky dory and no self protection is required.actually thats a true statement, its virtually nonexistant. where do you come up with this stuff?
you would think the at runs through downtown detroit. you want to carry?carry, you dont need to promote your hobby. id rather carry an extra liter of water
jakedatc
10-26-2012, 15:47
Gun people are so paranoid... you are in the ****ing woods. relax and chill the **** out.. Thousands of people hike the trail every year with no issues. I would hazard a guess that bringing a weapon would cause MORE problems. don't be surprised if you get the "oh sure we'll wait for you at x shelter......" and you never see them again. because that's what i'd be doing.
you are going to carry a gun in your bra, while carrying a backpack, for 100+ days in a row? sure... try it. lol
The OP mentioned HUNTING "but my friend thinks that it may help in the 100 mile wilderness section for dog food, or even food for us. "
Gun people are so paranoid... you are in the ****ing woods. relax and chill the **** out.. Thousands of people hike the trail every year with no issues. I would hazard a guess that bringing a weapon would cause MORE problems. don't be surprised if you get the "oh sure we'll wait for you at x shelter......" and you never see them again. because that's what i'd be doing.
you are going to carry a gun in your bra, while carrying a backpack, for 100+ days in a row? sure... try it. lol
The OP mentioned HUNTING "but my friend thinks that it may help in the 100 mile wilderness section for dog food, or even food for us. "
Jake, the OP is a 17 year old kid that is still wet behind the ears...let's not give his position any more credibility. He is going to do what he wants to anyway. It has nothing to do with guns, it has everything to do with his perspective which is coming from a position on naivety. my guess is he probably doesn't wear a seatbelt in the car either, so really, it just creates fodder for others to broad brush stroke yet another argument that will change neither camps minds...kinda like packweight. lol.
jakedatc
10-26-2012, 16:07
True. partially... carry a heavy pack long enough and folks will come around... oh yes they will ;) buhahaha
I hiked 200mi with a 17 yr old so i do know the type.. he had all kinds of useless things with him.. hunting knife.. bear spray etc. He was pretty easily convinced to pare things down to necessary items instead of "just in case"
vamelungeon
10-26-2012, 16:10
Gun people are so paranoid.
Hoplophobes are so paranoid.
SassyWindsor
10-26-2012, 16:14
Hoplophobes are so paranoid.
Thanks for posting this. Hoplophobia: "mental aberration consisting of an unreasoning terror of gadgetry, specifically, weapons."[ (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#cite_note-cooper-commentaries-5-7-6)
jakedatc
10-26-2012, 16:19
Hoplophobes are so paranoid.
at least i'm not afraid of the boogieman.
True. partially... carry a heavy pack long enough and folks will come around... oh yes they will ;) buhahaha
I hiked 200mi with a 17 yr old so i do know the type.. he had all kinds of useless things with him.. hunting knife.. bear spray etc. He was pretty easily convinced to pare things down to necessary items instead of "just in case"
can't disagree with you there. my philosophy is to not openly tout the additional stuff i carry (well, on the trail anyway) and reanalyze after each trip, then fine tune appropriately. some just have a head start on me. honestly, i think most fall in the category of "getting there" over time.
SassyWindsor
10-26-2012, 16:24
I'm not concerned about the boogieman or even 4 legged animals it's the snakes with 2 legs that I keep in my "sights". Women are attacked more than realized on trails every year. Just one example: 44 year old female hiker sexually attacked in GSMNP this passed June.
jakedatc
10-26-2012, 16:32
can't disagree with you there. my philosophy is to not openly tout the additional stuff i carry (well, on the trail anyway) and reanalyze after each trip, then fine tune appropriately. some just have a head start on me. honestly, i think most fall in the category of "getting there" over time.
As long as you think about it, then you will get to a good spot. it is the people who hold onto stuff because of "if" "might" "could need" the mindset is key
I'm not concerned about the boogieman or even 4 legged animals it's the snakes with 2 legs that I keep in my "sights". Women are attacked more than realized on trails every year. Just one example: 44 year old female hiker sexually attacked in GSMNP this passed June.
I hate to hear those stories, but i guess they exist as much on the trail from a population statistical probability as they do ratio wise anywhere else. The only positive that on the trail is that if an able bodied man came upon that scene he could end that attack with swift extreme predjuice and leave a note on the guys body telling the authorities they could question him to get the facts at the next town when he takes a "zero". we each deserve to hike unimpeded by others and i find it an incredible affront to my enjoyment when idiots get in my way of my plans that i have spent time putting together. I am a firm believer in Teddy's mantra. "speak softly and carry a big honkin stick"
WingedMonkey
10-26-2012, 16:39
I'm not concerned about the boogieman or even 4 legged animals it's the snakes with 2 legs that I keep in my "sights". Women are attacked more than realized on trails every year. Just one example: 44 year old female hiker sexually attacked in GSMNP this passed June.
To be clear, although in the park, was not on the AT.
hikerboy57
10-26-2012, 16:39
still think an air horn is the way to go
vamelungeon
10-26-2012, 16:44
at least i'm not afraid of the boogieman.
And neither am I.
For a german its real funny to read this "gun-themed" thread´s, because we cant realy own guns. Even knifes or batons are forbidden in most areas, or you are forbidden to wield them (if you are allowed to own them). And if I read your kids think about to take guns in the wildernes I am not afraid about the gun...I am concearnd about the human behind the iron sight´s :)
I hope they are easy enougth to let the guns where they should be and aren´t as far as anxious as other make them.
Sarcasm the elf
10-26-2012, 17:08
at least i'm not afraid of the boogieman.Can we at least admit that we're all scared of clowns?
jakedatc
10-26-2012, 17:08
I think pepper spray or mace would be sufficient for self protection on the trail, can even have it velcro'd to your shoulder strap or on a quick release for easy access. which could also be a visible deterrent.
swjohnsey
10-26-2012, 17:43
Hand grenade! You need a hand grenade. Hook a couple to your pack straps.
HikerMom58
10-26-2012, 17:49
I think pepper spray or mace would be sufficient for self protection on the trail, can even have it velcro'd to your shoulder strap or on a quick release for easy access. which could also be a visible deterrent.
Yeah, I carry it much to my daughter's dismay:p
atmilkman
10-26-2012, 18:23
Can we at least admit that we're all scared of clowns?
If you're scared of clowns don't go into the woods, and if you do bring your gun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP8Qi1YlDEc
Sarcasm the elf
10-26-2012, 20:28
If you're scared of clowns don't go into the woods, and if you do bring your gun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP8Qi1YlDEc
Why do I feel like you managed to film, edit and upload that in the hour and a half between when I posted my comment and when you posted your response? :rolleyes:
Wise Old Owl
10-26-2012, 20:39
You CAN carry but I'm sure you will make a lot of people uncomfortable. I get grilled for carrying a regular sized knife, couldn't imagine the heat I would catch if I were packing!
Serious? never happened to me.
SassyWindsor
10-26-2012, 21:52
To be clear, although in the park, was not on the AT.
So, I guess the attack doesn't matter because it was in a NP and on another trail. I never said it was on the AT.
SassyWindsor
10-26-2012, 22:08
I'm surprised the anti-gun folks haven't started talking about guns being taken away and used against them or that bullets you fire can become boomerang bullets in some magical way. In reference to the Clown video, I say the 2 legged snakes better become more afraid to go into the woods because of marksmen like myself. Anybody that doesn't want a toe tag had better watch out and leave others along.
Sarcasm the elf
10-26-2012, 22:11
So, seriously, how do you live in Knightsbridge, London UK and carry a .380?
WingedMonkey
10-26-2012, 22:29
So, I guess the attack doesn't matter because it was in a NP and on another trail. I never said it was on the AT.
Didn't say it didn't matter, although facts are still missing since the initial reports. As far as I know it has not been reported if the assault victim was armed or not.
However this is the Thru-Hiker Specific Topics forum, and the incident was not on the trail used to thru-hike.
jakedatc
10-26-2012, 22:33
I'm surprised the anti-gun folks haven't started talking about guns being taken away and used against them or that bullets you fire can become boomerang bullets in some magical way. In reference to the Clown video, I say the 2 legged snakes better become more afraid to go into the woods because of marksmen like myself. Anybody that doesn't want a toe tag had better watch out and leave others along.
yep, your internet toughness has reached it's peak. hopefully you never have to test your real life toughness.
Feral Bill
10-26-2012, 22:34
So, seriously, how do you live in Knightsbridge, London UK and carry a .380? I suspect SW is as British as I am, and has adopted that identity for reasons of "her" own. Perhaps
"she" will correct me if I'm wrong.
Sarcasm the elf
10-26-2012, 22:44
I suspect SW is as British as I am, and has adopted that identity for reasons of "her" own. Perhaps
"she" will correct me if I'm wrong.
I suspect the same. I just find it amusing that she frequently talks in detail about carrying a compact pistol while her location is listed as a place where the civilians are so thoroughly disarmed.
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 06:42
I'm surprised the anti-gun folks haven't started talking about guns being taken away and used against them or that bullets you fire can become boomerang bullets in some magical way. In reference to the Clown video, I say the 2 legged snakes better become more afraid to go into the woods because of marksmen like myself. Anybody that doesn't want a toe tag had better watch out and leave others along.
Folks like you are funny. You could have twenty guns on you and it wouldn't matter. Unless you are superman/woman you will never have a chance to even reach for you weapon if the bad guy is good at his business.
Folks like you are funny. You could have twenty guns on you and it wouldn't matter. Unless you are superman/woman you will never have a chance to even reach for you weapon if the bad guy is good at his business.
True!!! The bad guy must not be good at his business overall, if he catch someone unprepared (and noone is ever on the watch), sadly the result is 0 to 1 for the attacker. Even he didnt kill you with his first attack, if you are injured its very hard to act right and do the right things and be quick enough to be the winner.
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 07:13
Folks watch too much television.
Folks like you are funny. You could have twenty guns on you and it wouldn't matter. Unless you are superman/woman you will never have a chance to even reach for you weapon if the bad guy is good at his business.
The authorities have refused to tell us if the long distance section hiker murdered on the trail last year was killed by a gun, or by some other means.
Of the five thru hikers (yes, thru hikers) four of them were killed by guns, correct?
We will never know if those victims could have devenfed themselve with a handgun of their own, of course. My limitted understanding of those case suggest that one would probably have helped, however.
It also impossilbe to know if a potential killer's fear of encountering an armed person (like our own Lone Wolf) has kept any hiker safe, but speaking for myself, I am grateful to him and other responsible gun owners out there.
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 07:51
About 40,000 (did I get the right number of zeros?) folks were killed on American highways last year, half from drunk drivers. Are you afraid to drive?
About 40,000 (did I get the right number of zeros?) folks were killed on American highways last year, half from drunk drivers. Are you afraid to drive?
Of course not.
But I do recognize there is a risk to driving.
That's why I wear my seatbelt, carry more than the legally mandated minimum amount of insurance, and believe in drivers' ed at our schools.
On the trail there are other ways to manage risk.
That has nothing to with "fear". Why would you ifer that it does?
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 08:06
Of course not.
But I do recognize there is a risk to driving.
That's why I wear my seatbelt, carry more than the legally mandated minimum amount of insurance, and believe in drivers' ed at our schools.
On the trail there are other ways to manage risk.
That has nothing to with "fear". Why would you ifer that it does?
Did you know that you could cut your risk of dying in half by wearing a helmet while driving? Your risk of gettin' hit by lightning on the trail are higher than gettin' mugged. I don't carry a lightning rod either.
Did you know that you could cut your risk of dying in half by wearing a helmet while driving? Your risk of gettin' hit by lightning on the trail are higher than gettin' mugged. I don't carry a lightning rod either.
This will be my last post for a while, because I don't want to get sucked into debate mode.
That said, I think it important to comment on the above.
Zero (zip, zilch, nada) thu hikers have died as a result of lightning strikes on the Trail.
Fiver thru hikers (and one long distance section hikers) hve died at the hand of a stranger on the trail.
In fact, for every 2,500 thuhikers who have completed the AT and registered as a 2,000 miler, there was one thruhiker who did not get that opportunity because they were killed in the middle of thier journey of a lifetime.
WingedMonkey
10-27-2012, 08:19
The authorities have refused to tell us if the long distance section hiker murdered on the trail last year was killed by a gun, or by some other means.
Of the five thru hikers (yes, thru hikers) four of them were killed by guns, correct?
We will never know if those victims could have devenfed themselve with a handgun of their own, of course. My limitted understanding of those case suggest that one would probably have helped, however.
It also impossilbe to know if a potential killer's fear of encountering an armed person (like our own Lone Wolf) has kept any hiker safe, but speaking for myself, I am grateful to him and other responsible gun owners out there.
Of course, we need to arm all 17 year old thru-hikers so they can kill game for them and their dog while protecting themselves as they head south from Maine.
There would be no murders on the AT if we armed more inexperienced 17 year olds
Probably a lot more dead 17 year olds, but so what.
Alligator
10-27-2012, 10:06
Give it a rest folks.
HikerMom58
10-27-2012, 10:08
Of course, we need to arm all 17 year old thru-hikers so they can kill game for them and their dog while protecting themselves as they head south from Maine.
There would be no murders on the AT if we armed more inexperienced 17 year olds
Probably a lot more dead 17 year olds, but so what.
You can't take what everyone says at face value.... some people just like to talk- even young ones. If eveyone was responsible like rickb said, there wouldn't be a problem at all. Everyone understands responsible but doing it is another matter.
Your last sentence comes across as cold... just sayin.
Pedaling Fool
10-27-2012, 10:13
About 40,000 (did I get the right number of zeros?) folks were killed on American highways last year, half from drunk drivers. Are you afraid to drive?
I'm not afraid to drive, but I take a lot more precautions than most people, such as NOT driving too close behind the car in front of me and many other precautions that so many out on the roads seem completely oblivious too. Many who claim not to be "fearful" are actually worse, because they exhibit a far worse trait, COMPLACENCY. Complacency and lack of fear (not irrational fear, rather a healthy respect for the vehicle-type of fear) and that is what kills so many on the roads. Seems, from your posts you tend to suffer more from complacency and lack of respect for the given situation.
Did you know that you could cut your risk of dying in half by wearing a helmet while driving? Your risk of gettin' hit by lightning on the trail are higher than gettin' mugged. I don't carry a lightning rod either.
You seem to be saying that carrying a gun equals irrational fear. You're wrong, thus all your analogies are complete BS.
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 10:20
I'm not afraid to drive, but I take a lot more precautions than most people, such as NOT driving too close behind the car in front of me and many other precautions that so many out on the roads seem completely oblivious too. Many who claim not to be "fearful" are actually worse, because they exhibit a far worse trait, COMPLACENCY. Complacency and lack of fear (not irrational fear, rather a healthy respect for the vehicle-type of fear) and that is what kills so many on the roads. Seems, from your posts you tend to suffer more from complacency and lack of respect for the given situation.
You seem to be saying that carrying a gun equals irrational fear. You're wrong, thus all your analogies are complete BS.
Just fear.
Pedaling Fool
10-27-2012, 10:24
Just fear.No, there's a difference. Do you walk across the street without looking? Of course not, because you fear being hit by a car. So you also exhibit fear.
WingedMonkey
10-27-2012, 10:30
... some people just like to talk-
Yeah you got that right.
Sailing_Faith
10-27-2012, 10:33
It is interesting to me that if someone says they plan to hike with a 5# pack vs a 3# pack people are cool with saying "Hike Your Own Hike"...BUTIf they want to carry a 11.95oz Ruger LCP the HYOH goes out the window... why is that?
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 10:35
No, there's a difference. Do you walk across the street without looking? Of course not, because you fear being hit by a car. So you also exhibit fear.
So someone is gonna radomly select you out in the middle of nowhere to murder . . . and you are gonna be able to prevent it because you have your finger on the trigger (he does). Now that is irrational.
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 10:36
It is interesting to me that if someone says they plan to hike with a 5# pack vs a 3# pack people are cool with saying "Hike Your Own Hike"...BUTIf they want to carry a 11.95oz Ruger LCP the HYOH goes out the window... why is that?
I would make fun of you if you were hiking with a machette or ax hangin' from your belt.
Before I come off as some sort of anti-gun nut, I probably have a couple of hundred guns, maybe a hundred handguns. I love guns (well, I like 'em alot). I'm also retired military, Airborne Ranger, etc. etc. There are some places I wouldn't go unless I was armed. The AT ain't one of 'em.
Pedaling Fool
10-27-2012, 10:47
So someone is gonna radomly select you out in the middle of nowhere to murder . . . and you are gonna be able to prevent it because you have your finger on the trigger (he does). Now that is irrational.
As has already been said, people have been killed on the trail or near it (and that does count since we all go off trail during a hike). All I'm saying is that if you believe everyone packing is irrational, then you don't understand basic human nature and your verbal caricature above shows your lack of understanding. No, a gun is not a guarantee of one's safety, but what is? I've never needed my first aid kit, is it irrational to keep carrying that?
Sailing_Faith
10-27-2012, 10:56
I would make fun of you if you were hiking with a machette or ax hangin' from your belt.Before I come off as some sort of anti-gun nut, I probably have a couple of hundred guns, maybe a hundred handguns. I love guns (well, I like 'em alot). I'm also retired military, Airborne Ranger, etc. etc. There are some places I wouldn't go unless I was armed. The AT ain't one of 'em. Sure, fair enough...It does seem like some of the reactions are a little more impassioned then yours.
Sailing_Faith
10-27-2012, 10:57
I would make fun of you if you were hiking with a machette or ax hangin' from your belt.Before I come off as some sort of anti-gun nut, I probably have a couple of hundred guns, maybe a hundred handguns. I love guns (well, I like 'em alot). I'm also retired military, Airborne Ranger, etc. etc. There are some places I wouldn't go unless I was armed. The AT ain't one of 'em. Sure, fair enough...It does seem like some of the reactions might be a little more impassioned then yours.
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 11:01
As has already been said, people have been killed on the trail or near it (and that does count since we all go off trail during a hike). All I'm saying is that if you believe everyone packing is irrational, then you don't understand basic human nature and your verbal caricature above shows your lack of understanding. No, a gun is not a guarantee of one's safety, but what is? I've never needed my first aid kit, is it irrational to keep carrying that?
If it makes you feel better, I don't carry a first aid kit either unless you count duct tape.
HikerMom58
10-27-2012, 11:03
Yeah you got that right.
Wow, we agree on something.... and I didn't miss the point. :o Guilty as charged.
Pedaling Fool
10-27-2012, 11:03
If it makes you feel better, I don't carry a first aid kit either...
Some how, I knew you were going to say that. I guess the rest of us are just irrational nannies.
Hosaphone
10-27-2012, 13:20
About 40,000 (did I get the right number of zeros?) folks were killed on American highways last year, half from drunk drivers. Are you afraid to drive?
Uhhhh yes, terrified... I feel like I'm always a split second away from being dead every time I get into a car. And I am.
Damn Boston drivers...
swjohnsey
10-27-2012, 14:12
I ride a motorcycle!
Hosaphone
10-27-2012, 14:25
I ride a motorcycle!
If I lived somewhere where the roads were straight, the weather wasn't as rainy and people were better drivers, I'd ride one too :D
bamboo bob
10-27-2012, 14:30
This is a joke for sure.
dornstar
10-27-2012, 15:57
Never carried until I started hiking with my two daughters (14 and 11) and had an incident at a camp at Ocala National Forest with a few drunk guys who started screwing with them. Since then, I've carried a Kel Tec P3AT in my ULA Circuit hip pocket.
Weighs 11 ounces loaded and gives me a little piece of mind out there. You just never know.
Old Hiker
10-27-2012, 16:34
Never carried until I started hiking with my two daughters (14 and 11) and had an incident at a camp at Ocala National Forest with a few drunk guys who started screwing with them. Since then, I've carried a Kel Tec P3AT in my ULA Circuit hip pocket.
Weighs 11 ounces loaded and gives me a little piece of mind out there. You just never know.
Dornstar, side trail here - I have the same weapon. Does yours jam after a couple of rounds? Mine has no matter what ammo I use. I'm starting to think about another weapon.
Bottom line.... if you know that someone is carrying, then they are not being responsible and most likely do not have a CCP. if they are responsible with their weapon, trust me, you will never know they have it unless there is a real need for it, and then you will thank them. that is the difference between responsible gun owners and people that talk crap like the OP. a responsible gun owner treats his weapon in the manner in which he uses it with the same discretion as a seasoned carpenter does with his tools. so I could run into you at a shelter, have a great conversation for half an hour, we go about our ways, and you tell others "wow that was a really nice guy". if you were to find out later somehow that I have been carrying, you would say something like " what a Rambo wannabe s******." so your entire perception has now changed because of something you learned after the fact. lose the soapbox mentality people. it just makes you sound ignorant.
I should qualify that a little bit. your perception could change for reasons that would warrant it, kind of like mine did about Joe paterno. the reason above should not warrant it however.
Dornstar, side trail here - I have the same weapon. Does yours jam after a couple of rounds? Mine has no matter what ammo I use. I'm starting to think about another weapon.
Old Hiker; three words Fluff and Buff go to the Kel tec forum they can tell you how and why
bear bag hanger
10-28-2012, 12:01
Haven't read all six pages, but NO, you don't need a gun! They're heavy and you should be able to hike away from any problems you might have. Plus, the AT is primarily the responsibility of the Federal Park Service and they don't allow guns in any of the parks they are in charge of. In addition, if you're hiking with two dogs, the mostly likely use of a gun is to defend yourself from someone having a problem with your dogs attacking them. It doesn't matter if all your dogs are doing is barking a lot, if the victim thinks he is being attack, that is who the police will listen to. Do you really think it's worth spending the rest of your life in jail over an argument about your dogs?
Raymond James
10-28-2012, 13:28
I do not think you need a gun anywhere on the AT. The idea that you would hunt as you hike is not going to happen especilly at that time of year.
But if you think you need one for protection from people I would look at the Taurus TCP 380 or something like it. Small, Light weight, mostly composite, 6 rounds with a small lightweight bullet. You have to practice with something like this as it will not stop someone like a 45 cal. The 380 is a shorter, lighter weight round than a 9 mm. You have to be able to place the rounds in order to stop someone if they are attacking you. So not practicing is like not having it to begin with or worse giving your attaker a gun once they take it away from you.
A pocket 380 can be effetive at close (<20 feet) if you pratice shooting, I would not waste a shot at someone greater than that range. Everthing said if you are not going to kill someone do not carry a gun.
...Plus, the AT is primarily the responsibility of the Federal Park Service and they don't allow guns in any of the parks they are in charge of...
That is not correct.
If you can legally ccw in the state you are in you can legally ccw in in the national park within that state.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
SassyWindsor
10-28-2012, 19:05
I can't believe mis-information is posted here on WB.:rolleyes:
Raymond James
10-28-2012, 20:14
If you can legally carry in the state then you can legally carry in a National Park. Many (I think all ) buildings are posted no weapons but again if you can carrry in the state you can carry in the Park just not in buildings where posted no weapons. This is something new I do not know when exactly but sometime after 2004 when President Obama took office.
I assume you mean after 2008. which technically, is after 2004, however doesn't make your argument sound as impressive :)
just busting cajones :)
Austin_Knott
10-29-2012, 11:50
Woah woah woah.
I am not asking this question because I am inexperienced, or because I am only 17. I have plenty of hiking experience, in numerous terrains, & I am quite mature for my age. The gun idea was simply said to me by a friend & was asking you guys what you thought. If i DID bring a gun it would be for the intent of safety NOT killing and nobody would see it unless in extreme conditions.
I do not know what to expect on the Appalachian Trail seeing as I have only sectioned hike for no more than a week, and I usually take canyoneering trips (up to 3 weeks) in Arizona, where you go days without seeing anyone.
Just because I asked this question does not make me inexperienced, or a threat. It is a shame that in today's society I have to be judged on an action in which I went to seek help with.
My intentions on the AT is to find personal happiness, get out of the domestication of what society now calls life, and find my inner self. I love being out in nature and it is where I am happiest.
Hiking is WHAT I DO, and do not appreciate me being brought down because of my age, or the challenges that are in front of me.
Thank you to the people that gave me serious information. I have told my friend that it is not worth to worry about situations in which "we may need to grab the gun" and instead should focus on quick and critical thinking.
Austin_Knott
10-29-2012, 11:52
Plus the gun would add 3-6 pounds to my base weight. SCREW THAT (;
WingedMonkey
10-29-2012, 12:07
Plus the gun would add 3-6 pounds to my base weight. SCREW THAT (;
That's the ticket.
:p
Austin_Knott
10-29-2012, 12:39
You guys point & laugh at my age when you are all arguing over pointless things & ridiculing others based on opinions. Age is just a number, know what you are all talking about before you stereotype me with fallacies.
Feral Bill
10-29-2012, 12:49
You guys point & laugh at my age when you are all arguing over pointless things & ridiculing others based on opinions. Age is just a number, know what you are all talking about before you stereotype me with fallacies.
It's really not about your age, except as far as legal issues are concerned. Guns are a hot button issue, and, frankly, people on this site, as elsewhere, go nuts when the topic gets raised. I hope you stick around long enough to see how supportive people here are of younger hikers. Enjoy your hike.
Austin_Knott
10-29-2012, 12:51
Will be 18 on Wednesday. Thanks for the support. A few "bad eggs" never stopped me before.
earlyriser26
10-29-2012, 12:56
I am having a hard time taking this post as anything other than a joke, but if the OP really was serious..... A hand gun is almost useless in hunting and long gun likey will weigh more than you just packing in the dog food for yourself.
I quit reading the posts after about 2 or 3, because have seen these threads before, but IMO, leave all guns at home. Before my thru of this year, I had several friends and family more worried about this issue than I was. I almost bought into their scary tails of what "might" happen. Don't you do the same.
Best of luck and HYOH.
Fatherman(FM)
If you can legally carry in the state then you can legally carry in a National Park. Many (I think all ) buildings are posted no weapons but again if you can carrry in the state you can carry in the Park just not in buildings where posted no weapons. This is something new I do not know when exactly but sometime after 2004 when President Obama took office.
Buildings work the same in National Parks as they do anywhere else. If it is federally run, guns are banned just like all other federal buildings. If the building is not federal, it is the same as anywhere else, the owner/operator set the rules. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's a National Park.
I carried a small pistol this year the whole way , Never had any problems, but i never took it out or showed it off, no one knew i had it all at..... there was a guy this year that wore marine camos and had a pistol in a leg hoster, and he freaked alot of people out. if you feel you need to bring it bring it, but dont show it off. its not a toy
I always wonder why people take the bait when a thread like this is brought up. HYOH!
Prime Time
10-29-2012, 15:12
Unless you holster a side arm, how good is a hand gun for personal safety? Is your imagined attacker going to come running at you from 100 yards away screaming and brandishing a machete allowing you time to get your pack off, get out your gun, remove the safety, and fire? On a serious note, the trail is a very safe place. Any danger you face is unlikely to be overcome with a gun. Also, unless you are an expert shot, you won't likely be able to shoot a small animal with a hand gun unless you're about 8 feet away from it and it is sitting still broadside to you...for the 3 shots it will take you to hit it.
Woah woah woah.
I am not asking this question because I am inexperienced, or because I am only 17. I have plenty of hiking experience, in numerous terrains, & I am quite mature for my age. The gun idea was simply said to me by a friend & was asking you guys what you thought. If i DID bring a gun it would be for the intent of safety NOT killing and nobody would see it unless in extreme conditions.
I do not know what to expect on the Appalachian Trail seeing as I have only sectioned hike for no more than a week, and I usually take canyoneering trips (up to 3 weeks) in Arizona, where you go days without seeing anyone.
Just because I asked this question does not make me inexperienced, or a threat. It is a shame that in today's society I have to be judged on an action in which I went to seek help with.
My intentions on the AT is to find personal happiness, get out of the domestication of what society now calls life, and find my inner self. I love being out in nature and it is where I am happiest.
Hiking is WHAT I DO, and do not appreciate me being brought down because of my age, or the challenges that are in front of me.
Thank you to the people that gave me serious information. I have told my friend that it is not worth to worry about situations in which "we may need to grab the gun" and instead should focus on quick and critical thinking.
I'm glad to see you follow up with this post. It came across far differently than your original and i was one of the ones that came across harsh as a result. I am a gun owner and do carry concealed as well, many times on the trail (which practically speaking should be all the time or never actually). that said, your age does play a factor and always will especially in these types of discussions. You may be a very knowledgeable and responsible gun owner and user, but...because of your age the burden falls on you to be very careful in the words you use to frame your posts, especially with regard to such a controversial topic. If not, then the age factor becomes the first glaring red flag for those that oppose the right to carry as well as those that then feel we have to become defensive about our right to do so.
That said, i have no doubt that you will make the wise and legally correct decision that works best for you and your friend. Happy trails and be safe!
Snowleopard
10-29-2012, 15:51
Woah woah woah.
I am not asking this question because I am inexperienced, or because I am only 17. I have plenty of hiking experience, in numerous terrains, & I am quite mature for my age.
...
Since you're experienced in other places, the piece you might not know is that June in Maine is black fly season -- I don't think the southern Appalachians have black flies. Bring a headnet and DEET, long pants and long sleeve shirt. Because of Lyme disease, it's a good idea to treat pants and shirt with permethrin.
http://mainenature.org/black-fly-reports/black-fly-info/
Have fun.
Lone Wolf
10-29-2012, 19:52
Unless you holster a side arm, how good is a hand gun for personal safety?
same for mace or pepper spray 99% of y'all are anti-gun but pro mace/pepper spray. useless deterents to a would be rapist/murderder
atmilkman
10-29-2012, 20:39
same for mace or pepper spray 99% of y'all are anti-gun but pro mace/pepper spray. useless deterents to a would be rapist/murderder
Hit a rapist/murderer with mace or pepper spray and he's gonna say, WHAT....no tabasco!
hikerboy57
10-29-2012, 20:41
have to say the music on deep tracks has been amazing. when the levy breaks, right now allmans stormy monday.im still waiting to hear back from my daughters who stayed in long beach.on the canals.
globetruck
10-29-2012, 22:32
www.usacarry.com is a great site. Make sure that you abide by all state and local laws. Maryland is nearly impossible for anyone to legally conceal or transport a loaded pistol.
Whatever you do, make sure that you understand the laws, know yourself, and know how and when to use your gun.
Sailing_Faith
10-29-2012, 23:19
Globetruck, Welcome to Whiteblaze~! Thanks for the helpful link.
PD230SOI
10-30-2012, 01:31
A handgun is a "break contact" weapon and little more in a city situation, in the woods; almost useless for most people. In the hands of well trained users it can be effective, but target jitter can affect even the best shooters. Therefore I would not advise using a handgun for self protection unless it was just to help you get the heck away.
A rifle is much better for hitting what you are trying to hit. It also has much more energy to deliver to the thing you hit. But again; target jitter. An example of a decent rifle would be something like the Remington 700 BDL in 30-06. Thats a fine weapon, but at a little over 7 pounds for the empty rifle... Also you are more than likely to get tired of carrying it in your arms, put a sling on it, pop it over your shoulder, and you are now no longer able to bring it into line quickly.
A shotgun is a much better meat "getter" but again 7 pounds, target jitter, sling....
In addition how would you secure the weapon when you want to take some time in town? Not a small question.
I would just advise against it.
Thank you for asking - smart move, rather than to bring it.
swjohnsey
10-30-2012, 07:17
If I was gonna carry a "meat getter" it would be a .22.
hikerhobs
11-02-2012, 14:44
I think it would be better if you left your dogs and gun at home . :-?
kayak karl
11-02-2012, 17:41
I think it would be better if you left your dogs and gun at home . :-?
my dog is a hunting dog, but she doesn't carry the gun. :)
SassyWindsor
11-02-2012, 21:44
I've met many hikers with dog in toe telling me the dog is security, as well as a companion. The chances of the two finishing a thru is very small. In fact, I personally don't know anyone who has done so, but I'm sure a few have made it. I hiked the entire AT with my .380 and I bet it was lighter than anything a hiker had to carry to support a dog, even if the dog carried some of the weight. I would tell these hikers to leave the "security dog" at home and learn to handle a firearm and take it.
hikerboy57
11-02-2012, 22:21
I've met many hikers with dog in toe telling me the dog is security, as well as a companion. The chances of the two finishing a thru is very small. In fact, I personally don't know anyone who has done so, but I'm sure a few have made it. I hiked the entire AT with my .380 and I bet it was lighter than anything a hiker had to carry to support a dog, even if the dog carried some of the weight. I would tell these hikers to leave the "security dog" at home and learn to handle a firearm and take it.
i think its more companion first security maybe second, and im not even a dog owner. i havent met many dog owners that seemed to need the "protection" of their furry buddies, and when you see the love they have for their owners, well i just hope that .380 of yours at least loves you back.
Some practical considerations---first about dogs and then about firearms--from the Appalachian Trail Conservancy website:
Dogs are not permitted at all in the following parts of the AT:
Baxter State Park, Maine
Bear Mountain State Park Trailside Museum and Wildlife Center, New York—alternate road walk is available
Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Tennessee and North Carolina
Dogs are required to be on a leash in roughly 40% of the remainder of the AT, including:
Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Maryland (entire state)
Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, West Virginia
Shenandoah National Park, Virginia
Blue Ridge Parkway, Virginia
500+ miles of A.T. land administered by the National Park Service
To legally carry a firearm on the Trail, you must meet the permitting standards of the state and locality in which you are hiking. On national-park lands, discharging a firearm is illegal, even if you have a legal permit to carry it. Extra efforts may be required to secure weapons in towns to abide by local ordinances and private-property owners' rules. (Firearm rules vary by land ownership. The Trail crosses 14 states and more than 90 state, federal, or local agency lands, with each having its own rules and regulations; you are responsible for knowing and following those rules.) In areas of the Trail corridor where hunting is legal, hikers may see hunters carrying firearms. Hunters must abide by their own set of firearm rules, somewhat separate from firearm-carry rules but also varying by state and county.
My personal opinion is that two dogs and some firearms would not be worth all the hassle--especially at your age. (Many areas will probably not permit you to carry a handgun at your age). What will you do with the guns and the dogs in those areas where you cannot legally have the guns, the dogs--or either one--with you?
Have a great hike! Ahhh--to be young again!
dornstar
11-13-2012, 04:52
Plus the gun would add 3-6 pounds to my base weight. SCREW THAT (;
Whoa.... 3-6 pounds?
What kind of gun are you talking about?
My Kel Tec P3AT weights 11 ounces and my Diamondback DB9 9mm weighs 13 ounces with 6 rounds. A standard run of the mill Smith & Wesson 9mm with 15 rounds weighs less than 2 pounds.
dornstar
11-13-2012, 04:54
Dornstar, side trail here - I have the same weapon. Does yours jam after a couple of rounds? Mine has no matter what ammo I use. I'm starting to think about another weapon.
No, mine has been pretty darn reliable. I recently switched to the Diamondback DB9 though. More stopping power in roughly the same package.
The Cleaner
11-13-2012, 08:24
Wish I'd had a firearm a few weeks ago,I would have shot 2 unleashed dogs that the owner let walk on the bunk at Jerry's Cabin shelter while I was having lunch there....:mad:
Sarcasm the elf
11-13-2012, 10:20
Wish I'd had a firearm a few weeks ago,I would have shot 2 unleashed dogs that the owner let walk on the bunk at Jerry's Cabin shelter while I was having lunch there....:mad:
Sigh... So easy to talk tough on the Internet.
I hope you were just blowing off steam when you wrote that, otherwise I question what kind of person would suggest that they have the right to kill someone else's pet while in a public place just because it inconvenienced them. :datz
The Cleaner
11-13-2012, 11:28
Sigh... So easy to talk tough on the Internet.
I hope you were just blowing off steam when you wrote that, otherwise I question what kind of person would suggest that they have the right to kill someone else's pet while in a public place just because it inconvenienced them. :datz You're right I could never kill someone's dog but dog owners should respect other hikers when at shelters.BTW I'm heading up there now for another clean-up.....:sun
Pedaling Fool
11-13-2012, 11:35
I wouldn't shoot a dog either, but I do like beating dogs with a stick when they are unruly.
Lone Wolf
11-13-2012, 12:02
I wouldn't shoot a dog either, but I do like beating dogs with a stick when they are unruly.
a squirt gun filled with ammonia works good
Hosaphone
11-13-2012, 12:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
CarlZ993
11-13-2012, 13:14
My $0.02: I wouldn't carry a pistol nor take a dog on a thru-hike. I wouldn't want to carry the weight or worry about keeping it in my possession. And a dog? What a logistical pain in the backside.
I'm not some anti-gun type. I'm a retired cop. More down-side than upside to carrying a pistol on a hike.
SassyWindsor
11-13-2012, 13:37
Wish I'd had a firearm a few weeks ago,I would have shot 2 unleashed dogs that the owner let walk on the bunk at Jerry's Cabin shelter while I was having lunch there....:mad:
I don't think you really meant it but I personally would never shoot anything unless harm to me was about to occur. Most hikers with dogs are very inconsiderate for not restraining their pets.
Pendragon
11-13-2012, 16:02
Disturbing.......
Sarcasm the elf
11-13-2012, 18:01
You're right I could never kill someone's dog but dog owners should respect other hikers when at shelters.BTW I'm heading up there now for another clean-up.....:sun
No worries, I figured you were just venting. I can only imagine the level of nonsense you deal with while maintaining a popular shelter during hiking season.
a squirt gun filled with ammonia works good
They are equally effective when used on the owner. More often then not they're the real cause of the problem.
Wise Old Owl
11-13-2012, 18:40
I've met many hikers with dog in toe telling me the dog is security, as well as a companion. The chances of the two finishing a thru is very small. In fact, I personally don't know anyone who has done so, but I'm sure a few have made it. I hiked the entire AT with my .380 and I bet it was lighter than anything a hiker had to carry to support a dog, even if the dog carried some of the weight. I would tell these hikers to leave the "security dog" at home and learn to handle a firearm and take it.
Yea but you never needed to use it or you would have posted a incident by now.
I wouldn't shoot a dog either, but I do like beating dogs with a stick when they are unruly.
As a group we have a You tube beatin a dead horse. - Next time please use a hiking pole! - lighten up John.
a squirt gun filled with ammonia works good or bear spray. no biggie.
I don't think you really meant it but I personally would never shoot anything unless harm to me was about to occur. Most hikers with dogs are very inconsiderate for not restraining their pets.
Sassy - As a freind (and I am talking about myself) As a british subject and as Australian, every gun thread you get really focused - I wish I could PM you to say "Hey take a break!" Those fears were planted by family, BBC and American News who frequenty proffer "you need to be afraid" You were more likely to die in a car accident... The thread really did get answered in the first page. If I can kill a human being with a wire saw - what good is a gun? My dog is not protection - he will lick you to death... please tone it down....
cabbagehead
11-13-2012, 18:48
I wouldn't kill an animal to feed a dog.
Nasty Dog Virus
11-13-2012, 19:23
I know that some of my friends have carried pistols on 3-5 day hikes here in PA on the AT & Tuscarora Trail. It doesn't bother me in the least that they are armed. I have never carried a firearm while hiking either trail. I'm not sure if its legal even though my friends have valid concealed carry permits. I'm inclined to believe that it is. Perhaps legal in PA St Games Lands and St Forests but not on National Park Service tracts ???
Wise Old Owl
11-13-2012, 19:23
no I would not either. (mammal)
I've met many hikers with dog in toe telling me the dog is security, as well as a companion. The chances of the two finishing a thru is very small. In fact, I personally don't know anyone who has done so, but I'm sure a few have made it. I hiked the entire AT with my .380 and I bet it was lighter than anything a hiker had to carry to support a dog, even if the dog carried some of the weight. I would tell these hikers to leave the "security dog" at home and learn to handle a firearm and take it.
Alright, I'll bite. Looking at your location, how did you swing a firearm while Thru-hiking the AT? In the UK(excepting NI) you aren't even permitted to carry a handgun without a letter at the ministerial level, correct?
Also, OP, for the discriminating thru-hiker there is only one handgun you should carry: The Rock River Arms LAR-15
18092
Make sure you get the version without the bullet button.
Alright, I'll bite. Looking at your location, how did you swing a firearm while Thru-hiking the AT? In the UK(excepting NI) you aren't even permitted to carry a handgun without a letter at the ministerial level, correct?
I've often wondered the same thing.
I think it important that one's dog not create a sense of false security. The breed and disposition of the individual animal may come into play.
Recall that when Lollie Winans and Julianne Marie were killed near (not on) the AT in Shenendoa National Park they were walking with a Golden Retriever. They were bound and gagged before being murdered, and the dog was found later walking around the crime scene.
Merideth Emerson was walking with a dog before being abducted and later killed. That was near (not on) the AT on a Blood Mountain Blue Blaze. I am not sure of the breed.
Could a dog help one be safer? I think so-- but not always as these two examples show. Of the five THRU HIKERS killed on the AT itself while in the middle of thier thru hikes, none had a gun or a dog to my knowledge.
rickb
A gun offers it's own false sense of security .
Armed people do get shot and occcassionaly killed ; sometimes with their own guns
Armed people foolishly do walk into places where unarmed wise men fear to tread
rickb
A gun offers it's own false sense of security .
That is a good point to ponder.
Good stuff......http://209.144.27.3/forums/images/smilies/smile_popcorn.gif
Drybones
11-14-2012, 19:05
Wish I'd had a firearm a few weeks ago,I would have shot 2 unleashed dogs that the owner let walk on the bunk at Jerry's Cabin shelter while I was having lunch there....:mad:
You better hope the owner of those dogs doesn't have a gun, knife, or stick. If you shoot someone's dog it better not be mine.
Drybones
11-14-2012, 19:07
I wouldn't shoot a dog either, but I do like beating dogs with a stick when they are unruly.
Same goes for people.
Drybones
11-14-2012, 19:18
Alright, I'll bite. Looking at your location, how did you swing a firearm while Thru-hiking the AT? In the UK(excepting NI) you aren't even permitted to carry a handgun without a letter at the ministerial level, correct?
Also, OP, for the discriminating thru-hiker there is only one handgun you should carry: The Rock River Arms LAR-15
18092
Make sure you get the version without the bullet button.
Too bad the Britts no longer can own guns, almost like that in some parts of the states but not in the south, I believe Texas may pass a law requiring each person to own at least one. Hey, does that cute little gun come in 44 magnum, may be interested in one. I saw on the news 6 motorcycle riders robbing a store in the UK on the second floor of a mall, too bad all those people watching were unarmed.
Drybones
11-14-2012, 19:22
I carried a small pistol this year the whole way , Never had any problems, but i never took it out or showed it off, no one knew i had it all at..... there was a guy this year that wore marine camos and had a pistol in a leg hoster, and he freaked alot of people out. if you feel you need to bring it bring it, but dont show it off. its not a toy
I saw that dude a few days after starting but never saw him again, I doubt he made it past the first week. He was kinda spooky, a commando wanna be.
Drybones
11-14-2012, 19:39
This is a changing world folks, never used to lock the doors to the house or car, kids played outside to all hours and were safe from everything but thier parents switching them for coming in late. I'm sure non of the victims you see on TV expected what happened to them. I recommend you be as prepared as possible. I have a conceal carry permit but never carry a gun, on trail or otherwise, but should in town. I have a very large doberman I section hike with but he's along for the company, not protection, although no one comes into camp uninvited.
Just a thought.
For the most part it is illegal to carry in a building owned or leased by the Federal government.
Does that mean anyone who is otherwise packing within the law is breaking it the moment he walks into an AT shelter located in National Forest, Monument or Park?
SassyWindsor
11-14-2012, 20:17
rickb
A gun offers it's own false sense of security .
Armed people do get shot and occcassionaly killed ; sometimes with their own guns
Armed people foolishly do walk into places where unarmed wise men fear to tread
Wow, I wonder if the law enforcement officers and military of the world know this. Sounds like they'd be better off throwing down their arms and asking the criminals to PLEASE surrender. Total bs.
Lone Wolf
11-14-2012, 20:18
This is a changing world folks, I'm sure non of the victims you see on TV expected what happened to them. I recommend you be as prepared as possible. I have a conceal carry permit but never carry a gun, on trail or otherwise, but should in town.
i have a permit and carry in town. i was threatened several times this summer for enforcing the no drugs rule at The Place. a guy came here on a bus specifacally do do me harm cuz i called the cops on a buddy of his. the trail is changin'
Wow, I wonder if the law enforcement officers and military of the world know this. Sounds like they'd be better off throwing down their arms and asking the criminals to PLEASE surrender. Total bs.
We know that in real world street combat situation well trained cops miss their intended targets 70-80% of the time and to expect a barely trained civilian to do better than that is absurd
So the question then becomes where does the errant round go ?
I mean it has to hit something
Old Hiker
11-14-2012, 21:16
We know that in real world street combat situation well trained cops miss their intended targets 70-80% of the time and to expect a barely trained civilian to do better than that is absurd
So the question then becomes where does the errant round go ?
I mean it has to hit something
Cops are trained to empty their clips nowadays - straight from a cop. That's why rapid fire weapons were invented in WW1 or so- we as Americans were too squeamish (in general) to point a weapon and kill someone. If you spray a lot of bullets downrange, you can tell yourself that it wasn't YOUR bullet that killed the guy. Plus, it's easier to spray than aim.
atmilkman
11-14-2012, 21:25
Just spray with one of these babys and just shoot to thrill and play to kill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bMfrixJyWc
We know that in real world street combat situation well trained cops miss their intended targets 70-80% of the time and to expect a barely trained civilian to do better than that is absurd So the question then becomes where does the errant round go ? I mean it has to hit something
Its impossible to know if possesing a gun would have helped any of the 5 thru hikers who have been killed on the AT proper.
My guess is that one might have helped-- whether or not they were able to hit thier attacker.
In each of the cases involving thru hikers killed on the AT, only the victims and their killer were present so I am not sure your concerns about errant rounds really applies like it might elsewhere.
Hosaphone
11-14-2012, 21:56
We know that in real world street combat situation well trained cops miss their intended targets 70-80% of the time and to expect a barely trained civilian to do better than that is absurd
Keep in mind that even though they might be carrying one, not all cops are "gun people". Many cops never practice, and simply leave it in the holster until it's time to re-qualify. Many civilians are at the range twice a week practicing.
And on the other hand, I'm sure some cops take firearms training very seriously while some civilians barely know which end to point at the bad guy.
I expect that "well trained" cops have much better than 20% accuracy. But not all of them are well trained or practice enough.
rickb
My biggest concern is that that errant round is going to hit somebody
In the environment that we're in a gunshot wound that would be survivable in an urban or suburban environment becomes a fatal wound bc the victim cannot get properly treated in time
Hosaphone
11-14-2012, 22:00
I expect that "well trained" cops have much better than 20% accuracy. But not all of them are well trained or practice enough.
Case in point, there has been a rash of "accidental" shootings by police officers lately that would never have happened if they weren't breaking every single basic safety rule there is (finger off the trigger until ready to fire, never point at something you don't want to kill/destroy).
SassyWindsor
11-14-2012, 22:04
I wonder what the anti-gun people will be carrying when they come after my gun?