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evansprater
10-29-2012, 13:02
So I'm waiting out the storm in gatlinburg, as some of you may know... Ill probably head north out from Newfound gap on Thursday or Friday. I'm guessing now would be a good time to get some gaiters and crampons? What do you guys think - or is this all just a freak thing and I can wait til later on in the season? I was looking at these gaiters http://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Research-Rocky-Mountain-Gaiters/dp/B002ADAEGU/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1351530336&sr=1-2&keywords=gaiters
And some yak tracks: http://www.amazon.com/Yaktrax-Pro-Traction-Cleats-Snow/dp/B001CZJBKC/ref=pd_sim_sg_1

Anyone have experience with these and are they completely necessary after the storm is gone (this time of year)? Should I bring snowshoes? Any other tips for hiking in wintry conditions?

jakedatc
10-29-2012, 13:04
Yak traks will not cut it. look at the Koothula Micro spikes.

evansprater
10-29-2012, 13:05
Dang, really? All the reviews on yak tracks are stellar... I saw those spikes, they're definitely legit, though.

RED-DOG
10-29-2012, 13:09
I wouldn't get all excited this is a freaky snow storm, but do get the Gaitors (i wear them any time of the year) and wait on the crampons (i have never had the need for those on the AT). but why are waiting in Gatlinburg, some of the best times i had on my Thru's was in Snow storms. RED-DOG ( Flip-Flop 96 & GA-ME 06 & GA-ME 2012 )

jakedatc
10-29-2012, 13:13
Dang, really? All the reviews on yak tracks are stellar... I saw those spikes, they're definitely legit, though.

yaks are meant for walking on icy sidewalks. the rubber tears easily and the coils do not grip when you do anything with a slope.

i use similar gaiters for snowshoeing but it will depend on the conditions if you will need them.

evansprater
10-29-2012, 13:14
Ok so I can wait on the crampons... Anyone else agree? I am waiting because I'm from Florida and have zero experience with snow and don't want to die. Is that not logical?

kayak karl
10-29-2012, 13:24
been using these (http://icespike.net/) for two years now. work great and do no damage to my keens or new balance.

yakcraps made it 2 mile for me in Georgia.

gizzy bear
10-29-2012, 13:27
Ok so I can wait on the crampons... Anyone else agree? I am waiting because I'm from Florida and have zero experience with snow and don't want to die. Is that not logical?


hehehe!!! that sounds like a good plan!!! you can't finish if youre dead....well ....unlessin youre a ZOMBIE?!?!?!? good luck to you evan!!! be safe and HYOH!!!! :D

evansprater
10-29-2012, 13:36
Thanks gizzy! I will!

Slo-go'en
10-29-2012, 13:45
If the snow ever gets deep enough to require snow shoes, it's time to go home. There has to be 2-3 feet of snow for snowshoes to start to be useful, as the snow has to be deep enough to cover up all the rocks and tree limbs on the trail. Once there is constantly enough snow for snowshoes, making any miles will be very slow, very hard work.

The immeditate problem will be the wet snow. Heavy wet snow makes the Rhododendron tunnels collase and getting through them is not easy. 6 to 12 inches of wet snow makes everything real slippery and if you don't have waterproof boots, your boots will be soaking wet and your feet ice cold. Then the temps are suppost to drop even colder as the storm pulls away and drags cold air in behind it. This will firm up the wet snow and ice over areas lower down which didn't get snow. And then all the wet snow on trees which haven't lost all thier leafs yet will loose a lot of limbs or fall down with the high winds also expected.

So yes, you will want gaiters and microspikes if you expect to get any where in the near future. A chainsaw might be handy too...

evansprater
10-29-2012, 13:52
Shew! Surprised no one else mentioned what you have so far. Sounds like a blast! I will probably order the stuff tonight, then. :D

Rocket Jones
10-29-2012, 13:56
In those conditions, you also won't make anywhere near the milage you might think you can. Carry extra food. I also recommend hot jello for quick energy warm-you-from-the-inside drinks.

Rasputen
10-29-2012, 14:26
http://www.highonleconte.com/daily-posts.html. Enjoy your hike...

evansprater
10-29-2012, 14:43
Yeeehaw!! That looks like fun for this ol Florida boy.

Feral Bill
10-29-2012, 14:49
In those conditions, you also won't make anywhere near the milage you might think you can. Carry extra food. I also recommend hot jello for quick energy warm-you-from-the-inside drinks.
Like he said, plus, if you need snowshoes, you can only go a short distance without at least one partner to share breaking trail. With luck you won't need them.

Snowleopard
10-29-2012, 16:20
If you can't wait out the snow and are marginal on winter experience and equipment, the best thing you can do is to hook up with some hikers with more winter experience.

Bring extra warm socks; always have a pair of dry socks. Bring plastic bags for your feet (i.e., bread bags).

Rasputen, those snow pictures have me psyched for winter. We're just getting rain and wind here.

leaftye
10-29-2012, 16:38
An alternative to Kahtoola Microspikes are Hillsound Trail Crampons (http://www.amazon.com/Hillsound-Trail-Crampon-Small/dp/B004BNDG5I/). They're almost the same, but have a velcro strap and slightly longer spikes.

evansprater
10-29-2012, 23:29
Leafteye I checked those out and they seemed awesome so I ordered them! Thanks for the suggestion. I can't wait to shred some icy AT **** with them. Woohoo!

leaftye
10-29-2012, 23:38
I hope they work well for you. Some Microspikes users recommend attaching a velcro strap to prevent it from twisting around your shoe, and the Hillsound design addresses that problem. I was tempted to sell you my Microspikes so I could buy the Hillsound's myself. :) I imagine they'll work well if you have icy snow. I especially like using mine when edging on a slope. Instead of using my ice axe to chop steps, I'll grind/kick steps with the spikes.

Don't be too proud to put them on as soon as you get on the snow. I normally walk well on the snow, but I almost had a hike end before I took three steps on the snow when I slipped and slightly tweaked my knee. I put on my spikes and the rest of the hike went well until a trekking pole sunk into the snow and broke. So I also recommend using snow cups. I wouldn't even carry the small cups. Go bare on dirt, and then put on the snow cups when you need it.

evansprater
10-30-2012, 02:13
Duly noted. I imagine there will be a good deal of snow, slush, and ice when I get back to newfound gap Wednesday or Thursday, so I will definitely make good use of these bad boys. I also got the Mountain hardware nut shell gaiters, which had great reviews and were a great price. Now I just hope my three jackets keep me warm enough...

Creek Dancer
10-30-2012, 06:18
One important thing is to be to get warm and dry at the end of the day, evansprater. Be sure to always keep some dry clothes for sleeping, even if it means having to put on something cold and wet in the morning for hiking. Stay safe.

FatHead64
10-30-2012, 06:22
I have some Hillsounds for here in lake effect Michigan and I love them.

evansprater
10-30-2012, 08:22
Thanks creek dancer. I have some synthetic long johns that I've actually already been changing in to at the end of each day just because they're comfy, so my routine will stay the same when I get back out there. And I actually can only wear liner socks with my waterproof boots because I have extremely sweaty feet (they prune up baadd after about 3 hours with smart wool socks on) so I always have two pairs of nice, dry, never smelly wool socks just hangin out in my back pack.

Snowleopard
10-30-2012, 14:51
Hillsound has two trail crampons:
Hillsound Trail Crampon gets mediocre reviews. It'll probably do what you need on the AT in the south, but probably Kahtoola microspikes are probably better:
Review: http://sectionhiker.com/hillsound-trail-crampon-a-first-look/
Hillsound Trail Crampon Pro. These get great reviews. http://sectionhiker.com/hillsound-trail-crampon-pro/
I have a Camp crampon that is almost identical. These are somewhat more of a crampon than the microspikes.

Last winter the local trails were very icy. Kahtoola microspikes were marginal and my Camp Magix crampons or HS Trail Crampon Pros were much much better than the microspikes. Normally the microspikes are more convenient and work fine. In the White Mtns (NH) in midwinter if I carried only one set I'd take the Camp or HS Pro over the microspikes. For the southern AT I'd guess microspikes would be best. The non-pro HS will probably also be fine down there.

For 4' drifts, I'd want snowshoes, but I suppose that'll melt off soon. TipiWalter, who has a LOT of winter experience down there, says that snowshoes don't work well there because of bent over branches or rhododendrons.

I'm jealous of that snow. Have fun.

4dogHiker
10-30-2012, 15:46
It was noted on the LeConte blog 441 was closed due to snow. You may not get out until Thursday or Friday, evansprater...will you be stopping at Standing Bear hostel? We are supposed to hike this section starting Monday, and would love to have an update as to trail conditions up there. Thanks, and happy (warm) hiking!

evansprater
10-30-2012, 15:53
I was thinking about stopping through that hostel, if only just to shower and use the wifi (buying all this extra winter gear unused up more money than I thought!). But I will indeed try to update.

I wish I had known the difference and that the hillsound pros existed before I bought the regular ones but they had stellar reviews on amazon so hopefully should be good at least for southern apps like you said. Only one way to find out!

leaftye
10-30-2012, 16:05
Hillsound has two trail crampons:
Hillsound Trail Crampon gets mediocre reviews. It'll probably do what you need on the AT in the south, but probably Kahtoola microspikes are probably better:
Review: http://sectionhiker.com/hillsound-trail-crampon-a-first-look/

It seems like he expected it to do much more than Microspikes. I suppose that's not an unreasonable expectation when they put "crampon" in the name, but it's really nothing more than a slight variation of Kahtoola's Microspikes.

Snowleopard
10-30-2012, 18:11
It seems like he expected it to do much more than Microspikes. I suppose that's not an unreasonable expectation when they put "crampon" in the name, but it's really nothing more than a slight variation of Kahtoola's Microspikes.
Philip (at sectionhiker.com) was comparing his non-pro HillSound to his companions' microspikes and felt that the microspikes were better on steeper terrain. Still, evansprater should do fine with them on the southern AT. Maybe carry a couple of cable ties or steel wire for emergency repair.

Leaftye, I wonder if the Hillsound Pro or my Camp Magix would be preferable to microspikes on the PCT. Do you have any opinion on that (in the unlikely case that I get to hike the PCT someday)?

leaftye
10-30-2012, 18:27
Philip (at sectionhiker.com) was comparing his non-pro HillSound to his companions' microspikes and felt that the microspikes were better on steeper terrain.

I'm aware, but his bias shows. I have to wonder what size shoes, Microspikes and Hillsound's were used as many people have said that the Microspikes will rotate around the shoe if they're improperly sized. Smaller and tighter is better.

I was hoping Kahtoola would update their Microspikes because of the Hillsounds and some chinese clones.


Leaftye, I wonder if the Hillsound Pro or my Camp Magix would be preferable to microspikes on the PCT. Do you have any opinion on that (in the unlikely case that I get to hike the PCT someday)?

A few PCT hikers have used Kahtoola KTS crampons on the PCT along with Microspikes, myself included. I know Shroomer prefers the KTS crampons after having the rubber grommet on his Microspikes pull out. I'm not sure I have such a strong preference, although I will strongly recommend knowing how to properly use them first. I'll admit that for a while I was using them without the adjustment slider locked down, and that could have been awfully bad. Mind you, there's much more to knowing how to use them properly than getting them correctly fitted.

I suppose it's possible to be faster with trekking crampons if the process of making steps were skipped. I know if I'm going to bring trekking crampons, I'd definitely bring an ice axe, whereas many of Microspike users don't carry an ice axe.

WILLIAM HAYES
10-30-2012, 20:37
you will not need snowshoes or micro spikes dress appropriately I hiked the smokies several years ago in similar if not worse conditions see my gallery -wear gaiters and dont plan on high mileage days

evansprater
10-30-2012, 21:55
So many different opinions. Oh well, I already purchased the Hiklsounds so I guess better safe than sorry. Who knows what I could experience in VA or possibly farther north.

Mountain Mike
10-30-2012, 22:33
Like mentioned above expect lower miles. Pack extra fuel & food. Especially fuel in case you have to melt snow for water. Good luck & have fun!

evansprater
10-31-2012, 09:22
Definitely, I always carry an extra canister anyways, and will have 3 if one is suuuper low. I don't mind extra weight for things that could keep me alive. It's a better workout anyways. And, as I am in no hurry, I'm ok with low miles. Shoot, 8 miles a day would be awesome for the next few months. That way I wouldn't have to stop and Baxter would be open by the time I got there!

jakedatc
10-31-2012, 10:13
that will put you in VT,NH and ME during mud and bug season.. good job ;)

still haven't quite figured out what you're going for.. you want to have a social hike but are in the most desolate months on the trail. :shrug:

evansprater
10-31-2012, 12:52
Haha. I couldn't wait until spring to start. Not in my crappy home town at least. I had to get in to the woods. Had to. I'm sure you know the feeling. I'm completely fine being alone and desolate. I'm just saying when there are people, I love to laugh and talk and get to know them as much as possible. As for mud and bugs, bring it.

jakedatc
10-31-2012, 14:30
Well, you can't "bring it" until early june at least in VT.. trails are closed for the most part to protect the trails from excess erosion when it is too muddy. early spring-memorial day is the guideline. where the AT and LT mix is smack dab where they close Stratton mt and Killington.

evansprater
10-31-2012, 15:20
Ah, damn. Well, winter job in NC or VA it is! No worries.

jakedatc
10-31-2012, 15:28
there ya go.. no need to slop through some of the best parts.

Snowleopard
10-31-2012, 18:54
Thanks for the PCT info, leaftye. Someday....

evanspater, for using upright canister stoves in the cold the trick is to keep the canister warm (NOT HOT!!!!). This link has good advice and tricks:
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm#Modern
Especially read the safety section.

Personally, I will use liquid fuel stoves in winter, but it gets colder up here.

evansprater
11-01-2012, 10:40
Wow, I never knew that! Thank you snowleopard!!

jakedatc
11-01-2012, 10:42
easiest way is to keep your canister in your coat while you walk. if you cook breakfast keep the canister in your sleeping bag.

Moose2001
11-01-2012, 11:04
.

Personally, I will use liquid fuel stoves in winter, but it gets colder up here.

Totally agree. If I was doing what you're trying to do, I'd be carrying a Whisperlite. You can get them to light no matter how cold it gets.

evansprater
11-01-2012, 11:07
If I had a million dollars, I would already have a whisperlite. I figure the extra fuel ill be using will add up to ALMOST the cost of one over the next few months. For now my $8 knock off stove from amazon is... Kicking ass.

Drybones
11-01-2012, 14:38
If I had a million dollars, I would already have a whisperlite. I figure the extra fuel ill be using will add up to ALMOST the cost of one over the next few months. For now my $8 knock off stove from amazon is... Kicking ass.

One of mmy favorite songs "If I Had a Million Dollars".

evansprater
11-01-2012, 14:40
I have that and the Big Bang theory theme by the bare naked ladies on my trail mix. Good trail songs!

evansprater
11-02-2012, 00:34
Should be fun!