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njgramm
11-04-2012, 03:39
I know I have heard of people hiking the trail all times of year. However is it really feasible to leave late November early December nobo?

moytoy
11-04-2012, 04:33
Anything is possible but be ready to hole up in towns during winter storms. I like winter camping but camping and hiking long distance are two different things. I defer to the experts.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 04:38
I do agree anything is possible. I have missed both spring time dates to leave a couple years apart. Now i have the opportunity to head out again in a month. However i don't want to set myself up for failure. So just lookin for advice. Like one question on my mind. That dude that ferries people across the river. Can you get across without him since he does it seasonably, things like that....

yellowsirocco
11-04-2012, 04:42
New England is where the problems lie.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 04:46
Be in New England like april or may right?

yellowsirocco
11-04-2012, 04:48
And you can walk around the ferry, but you will need a road map and it isn't a short detour. that is the least of your problems though. the trail will be a muddy mess.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 04:49
so in your opinion the mud is the worst of leavin this late?

yellowsirocco
11-04-2012, 04:53
The entire thing sounds like a disaster. For a nice winter walk get a plane ticket to europe and walk the Camino de Santiago. The AT will still be there.

moytoy
11-04-2012, 04:56
The entire thing sounds like a disaster. For a nice winter walk get a plane ticket to europe and walk the Camino de Santiago. The AT will still be there.
Or just drive to Fl and do the FT:)

njgramm
11-04-2012, 04:56
Lmao if i had that kinda money i could wait till march.....

njgramm
11-04-2012, 04:57
good point bout FL. Totally forgot bout that. Is this a good time to leave for that?

njgramm
11-04-2012, 04:58
Mainly asking what time of year does the average person make it to springer if they leave beg. of dec?

yellowsirocco
11-04-2012, 05:01
If you don't have that kind of money then you won't get far on the AT during the winter. The AT ain't cheap. On the internet people have these romanticized thoughts about living in the woods and never coming to town, but that never happens.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:02
actually i am planning only town reups. no mail drops. thats why i dont have extra funds for a trip to europe.

moytoy
11-04-2012, 05:03
good point bout FL. Totally forgot bout that. Is this a good time to leave for that?
Yes, Oct. thru April is pretty decent weather for hiking here. It is different experience here and you don't have a lot of people hiking with you.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:05
yeah i main concern was the lack of that dude helpin across the river (which was addressed) and weather.

yellowsirocco
11-04-2012, 05:11
So you have one river down, great, but how about crossing Oberton Stream, the Carrabassett River and Big Wilson full of snow-melt?

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:13
Exactly why im askin yellowsirocco. Im wantin to know what im in for goin off season.... And I appreciate any input.

moytoy
11-04-2012, 05:19
You will have time to get to the Smokies just about the time winter sets in for good. Depending on the winter we have will depend on how far you get before all the rest of the AT hikers start. Bad winter and you may not be that far ahead of the pack when you get to NE.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:21
moytoy is that based on leavin in a month from springer or FL like you mentioned earlier?

yellowsirocco
11-04-2012, 05:23
Here is the thing, you have no clue what you are doing. This is the type of thing that someone who had hiked the trail before can do. You need to know these places beforehand and we can't sit here and tell you every flooded out spot because there will be way too many of them. That even assumes that you get that far, we can't sit here and tell you every mountain top that is a bad spot for snow either.

Monkeywrench
11-04-2012, 05:23
One big factor of winter hiking is the short daylight hours. You'll have to wake up in the dark and cold every morning before dawn and be ready to start walking at first light, then hike until dark and make camp, cook, and do whatever other chores you have after dark. Then there's ice and snow to deal with.

It can certainly be done. You wouldn't be the first to hike through the winter. But it is a very different experience than what most folks think of when they think of thru-hiking. It's a lot tougher, both physically and mentally. And if you don't know what you're doing it can be dangerous.

moytoy
11-04-2012, 05:28
moytoy is that based on leavin in a month from springer or FL like you mentioned earlier?
I was talking about leaving from Springer but all I was trying to point out is that if there is a bad winter you are going to hole up somewhere which can get expensive. I say go for it and just know that sometime in Jan. you may decide to go home and come back in April.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:29
Thank you monkey that's what I was lookin for. No yellow im not lookin for every mountain pass info. Just general knowledge that would help. only specific thing i asked was about that one dude. Sorry if it came out that I want my whole trip planned. Been planning for years. Just wanted a few helpful hints for off season, thats all.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:30
true moytoy, however i could decide to stop in 30 days if i left at a normal time right?...

moytoy
11-04-2012, 05:33
true moytoy, however i could decide to stop in 30 days if i left at a normal time right?...
yep.......

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:35
I thank you all for ur input. So far sounds like occasional hunkerin down. long hikes around river crossings and a lot of mud in the end. Yet very doable (even though im not sure thats a word.. lol).

evansprater
11-04-2012, 05:35
I started noBo October 8th and am still going, and plan on going north until I get stopped by weather, getting a job wherever I land until mid march or so, and finishing the trail after that. I say prepare adequately and know what you're up against and do it.

peakbagger
11-04-2012, 05:37
March/April is still winter in the NH and Me (during a typical winter which we havenot had in a few years). The trail will be covered with snow in most areas and April tends to be Postholing season, where the snow get "rotten", there still may be a couple of feet on the trail, but even with snow shoes, trying to walk across it will cause the snowshoes to break though the crust. Once you break through the crust the snowshoes tend to get covered with snow so you need to pull your leg up lifting a lot of extra weight. It can be extremely exhausting. In the past it took me and some friends 2.5 hours to hike less than a mile on flat terrain during postholing season.

The snow also undermines at streams. During the winter there are usually pretty good ice bridges that form, but eventually they fall apart in March or April. Usually what happens is that the stream ends up in trench in the snow. The edges of the trench are vertical and in some cases, it may be a 10 feet drop down into a deep stream bed. This is extremely dangerous and typically unavoidable.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 05:37
evansprater did you leave with gear plannin on leavin earlier or did you plan gear for leavin in oct?

moytoy
11-04-2012, 05:41
I started noBo October 8th and am still going, and plan on going north until I get stopped by weather, getting a job wherever I land until mid march or so, and finishing the trail after that. I say prepare adequately and know what you're up against and do it.
Are you still in Gatlinburg? Or did you get through the Smokies already?

evansprater
11-04-2012, 05:45
Still stuck in gburg. I don't know if you saw my post but tried to go back out Friday and got stopped by waist to chest high drifts. Trying again Monday.

moytoy
11-04-2012, 05:51
Still stuck in gburg. I don't know if you saw my post but tried to go back out Friday and got stopped by waist to chest high drifts. Trying again Monday.
No I didn't see your post but I figured as much. A lot of my family lives in the area and they told me there is a lot of snow at higher elevations.
Good luck to you.

Monkeywrench
11-04-2012, 06:16
March/April is still winter in the NH and Me...

And by May it's Black Fly season. Sane people don't go into the woods in Maine in May. At least, they don't come out of the woods sane...

njgramm
11-04-2012, 06:31
Lmao... Monkey yes i have heard that....comin out sane is one thing but im not sure any of us go in sane..... lol

Monkeywrench
11-04-2012, 06:44
Lmao... Monkey yes i have heard that....comin out sane is one thing but im not sure any of us go in sane..... lol

FYI The name is Monkeywrench, not Monkey. Thanks!

fredmugs
11-04-2012, 06:55
Here is the thing, you have no clue what you are doing. This is the type of thing that someone who had hiked the trail before can do. You need to know these places beforehand and we can't sit here and tell you every flooded out spot because there will be way too many of them. That even assumes that you get that far, we can't sit here and tell you every mountain top that is a bad spot for snow either.

I agree. Don't do it.

njgramm
11-04-2012, 07:21
ok sorry for abbreviating monkeywrench, cause you are right thats the most important thing...lmao did i spell it right? all good? **** this i never should have asked..... lol

RCBear
11-04-2012, 08:24
Here is the thing, you have no clue what you are doing. This is the type of thing that someone who had hiked the trail before can do. You need to know these places beforehand and we can't sit here and tell you every flooded out spot because there will be way too many of them. That even assumes that you get that far, we can't sit here and tell you every mountain top that is a bad spot for snow either.

Then why waste your time or that of the OP responding on this thread. Guys like you really crack me up. sitting by the keyboard just waiting for your opportunity, huh?

RCBear
11-04-2012, 08:27
March/April is still winter in the NH and Me (during a typical winter which we havenot had in a few years). The trail will be covered with snow in most areas and April tends to be Postholing season, where the snow get "rotten", there still may be a couple of feet on the trail, but even with snow shoes, trying to walk across it will cause the snowshoes to break though the crust. Once you break through the crust the snowshoes tend to get covered with snow so you need to pull your leg up lifting a lot of extra weight. It can be extremely exhausting. In the past it took me and some friends 2.5 hours to hike less than a mile on flat terrain during postholing season.

The snow also undermines at streams. During the winter there are usually pretty good ice bridges that form, but eventually they fall apart in March or April. Usually what happens is that the stream ends up in trench in the snow. The edges of the trench are vertical and in some cases, it may be a 10 feet drop down into a deep stream bed. This is extremely dangerous and typically unavoidable.

Very good information!

restless
11-04-2012, 08:30
Aside from the previous problems likely to be encountered up north in the early spring, winter in the Southern appalachians is no joke either. With the amount of snow in the Smokies right now, I doubt conditions will change much there either; if anything they might get worse with additional snowfall. Smokies aside, the Unakas, Roans and Grayson Highlands can also be brutal. I spent one night in Thomas Knob shelter and the wind chill was -30...not fun. I doubt that a six month hike would be feasible considering the high liklihood of encountering heavy snow and with the shorter daylight hours. My best guess would be closer to 8 months. There would basically be no way around spending time in towns and SAR teams frown upon having to recover a body during a winter storm. Make sure you know what you're in for and have planned sufficiently. Personally, I would second the Florida thing. Winter is a great time to start in FL and even thoguh it is flat and has a lot of road walking, it is a memorable experience as well.

RCBear
11-04-2012, 08:41
The Florida Trail is certainly an option and I use it for long training hikes and gear testing, but I cannot imagine thruhiking it in 1 session. Would bore me to freaking tears! Unless your are a fan of every variety of pine tree spread out over hundreds of miles :)

it sounds like if you are in shape both mentally (especially!) and physically, are willing to hold up, can make your dollars stretch, and really understand the section that lies ahead you could do this knowing that you may have to eventually abandon. I would be very interested in reading your journals along the way, much like I am enjoying following Evanspater after his later than usual start. Good luck!!

jakedatc
11-04-2012, 09:25
What i don't get is why he has money now but won't in march when normal people go. holing up in towns is not conducive to saving money, hiking short miles in the cold is not going to save money, having to have extra food, fuel etc won't save money. Vermont is closed in early spring when the snow melts until Memorial day.

get a part time job, save some $ and go in march.

evansprater
11-04-2012, 10:22
Thanks RCBear! Honestly I am not looking forward to being further north when the real winter hits. It's going to suck and plus that will mean me getting off the trail. Why not do it like im doing? Get as far north as you can, get a job in the town you stop in, and resume in march? I get a lot of people telling me they've never heard of anyone doing it that way, and it would still be a "thru hike" since it's less than one year (if you care about labels and such). I beg you, don't do the Florida trail. I'm from Florida and it is a miserable place, full of retirees on their deathbeds, Mosquitos (yes even this time of year), alligators, and tons of swamp. You don't want to walk through swamp do you? Up to your knees in muck waiting for an alligator to death roll you?! Lol seriously though: Florida is completely flat and boring. Get on the AT.

prain4u
11-04-2012, 10:37
I thank you all for ur input. So far sounds like occasional hunkerin down. long hikes around river crossings and a lot of mud in the end. Yet very doable (even though im not sure thats a word.. lol).

That's not AT ALL what I am seeing people write. With all due respect, I think you are merely seeing what you want to see as you read these posts. What I see, is most of these people politely--but firmly--trying to tell you--- "YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T TRY THIS HIKE!!!"

This is what I am reading.....

1) There will (potentially) be nasty weather at times. You will encounter deep snow, sleet, ice, freezing cold rain, and lots of mud. Some of the much needed services (like ferries) won't be operating at all and others might be operating in a reduced or very limited way. You will have very few fellow hikers to call upon for advice or support. (In many ways, you will be somewhat on your own).

2) You will quite likely need to "hunker down" for a significant number of days overall. Hunkering down in the woods for many days IS POSSIBLE (but not very likely). Most people can't discipline themselves enough to do it. You will want--or need--to go into town more often and that will bust your budget.

3) I am seeing people trying to tell you this: Shorter hours of daylight, and a slower pace on wintery trails, will probably mean slow going. Slow going means a much longer hike. A longer hike can usually be a more expensive hike. (And, you readily admit you don't have a lot of money).

4) I am seeing people trying to tell you that this would be a very tough hike even for an experienced AT thru hiker. The very fact that you are having to ask your questions--probably demonstrates that you (quite possibly) don't have the experience necessary to complete this hike.

5) I am seeing people tell you: "If you really want to attempt this--go for it". "Anything is possible. It is your life, your dream and your hike". "Who the heck are we to crap on your dreams?" "Do whatever you feel you need to do."

I also hear people saying to you: "We will support you--but probably from a distance (because you sure as heck won't see many of us out there trying a NOBO at this time of the year---we know better)!"

At least that is what I am reading as I look at the various posts. (But, who knows, maybe I am the one who is misreading what people are trying to write).

oldbear
11-04-2012, 11:35
What i don't get is why he has money now but won't in march when normal people go. holing up in towns is not conducive to saving money, hiking short miles in the cold is not going to save money, having to have extra food, fuel etc won't save money. Vermont is closed in early spring when the snow melts until Memorial day.

get a part time job, save some $ and go in march.
I agree
If he wants to do this hike then he has to be prepared to get involved in a rapidly expanding cascade effect bubble that will require him to get bigger stronger , more reliable , heavier and more expensive gear
Since neither alcohol or canister fuel stoves work in extremely cold weather he's gonna have to switch out to a liquid multi fuel stove like an MSR XGK or the old reliable Svea 123 which I know for a fact will burn pump gas at -20F
Toss an extra full fuel botttle on board and his expense and packweight just went
Heck is pack has to be bigger ...and very possibly more expensive
He may have to melt snow for water
Yeah it's a pain in the butt to do But for a solo hiker in winter it may be a much safer option than walking down a snow -cover watercourse bank
So more fuel , more weight
He'll need more calories
He'll spend more time in his tent ... so maybe he'll need a bigger and safer 4 season tent ==> more weight => more cubes => more money
If he doesn't already have them he may need to develop new skills like how to use an ice axe and crampons and snow shoes and mountaineering skis
If he doesn't already have them he may need to buy and carry those tools ==> more weight => more cubes => more money
His boot-weight will go up==> more weight => more cubes => more money
The list goes on

Slo-go'en
11-04-2012, 11:56
It's already shaping up to be a cold and stormy winter along the Appalachians and it looks like the southern Apps might get the brunt of it again this season, like they did a couple of years ago.

If you start a thru-hike in December, you don't have to worry about what the conditions in New England are in the spring, as you will never get here.

bigcranky
11-04-2012, 14:17
If you have to ask about a northbound AT hike starting in December, then you probably -- no, make that definitely -- shouldn't do it.

The Florida Trail is perfect in December and January. It's not an easy hike by any means, and it will also be cold but without the many feet of snow and icy trail that await you in the Southern Appalachians. I've often thought about doing a Florida Trail hike starting on New Year's Day - but starting a month earlier would be just fine.

You'll need to contact the Florida Trail Association and get the guidebook. I think you also need to be a member in order to cross some of the Indian reservations and military posts. The logistics of an FT thru-hike are more difficult in some ways, as there is not the same infrastructure to support hikers. Also, my experience on the FT is that the locals don't know anything about hikers or the trail, and will assume you are a homeless vagrant.

But it's a beautiful trail that goes through some amazing scenery.

fcoulter
11-04-2012, 19:54
I've often thought about doing a Florida Trail hike starting on New Year's Day - but starting a month earlier would be just fine.

First, thank you for the response to RCBear and evansprater.

Second, the biggest problem with starting before January is hunting season. If you start in January, you're following the end of hunting season through the state. If you start in December, you're hiking during the middle of hunting season.

While the majority of hunters are decent individuals who really work hard to avoid shooting meat they can't eat (also called hikers), there is a minority of hunters who are really just there to get away from their "normal" lives, hang out with friends, and drink. Until we can convince them that there's this thing called fishing, I would try to avoid the less traveled trails during this time of the year.

Also, in some of the areas that the Florida Trail goes through, camping is not allowed (or severely limited) during hunting season. For instance, during hunting season you have to go to camp sites (and pay lots of money) in the Ocala Forest. During the rest of the year, you can camp almost anywhere.

While I would also recommend the Florida Trail rather than the AT for his hike, I wouldn't recommend it until January. (And if he's really gung-ho, he can turn right in the panhandle and go into Alabama and head north to the AT. The FTA counts that as a through hike, too.)

HikerMom58
11-04-2012, 20:24
Thanks RCBear! Honestly I am not looking forward to being further north when the real winter hits. It's going to suck and plus that will mean me getting off the trail. Why not do it like im doing? Get as far north as you can, get a job in the town you stop in, and resume in march? I get a lot of people telling me they've never heard of anyone doing it that way, and it would still be a "thru hike" since it's less than one year (if you care about labels and such). I beg you, don't do the Florida trail. I'm from Florida and it is a miserable place, full of retirees on their deathbeds, Mosquitos (yes even this time of year), alligators, and tons of swamp. You don't want to walk through swamp do you? Up to your knees in muck waiting for an alligator to death roll you?! Lol seriously though: Florida is completely flat and boring. Get on the AT.


evensprater... you are funny!! :) Be careful getting out there in the Smokey's on Monday. (You are a smart guy so I'm not too concerned.) The weather is going to be nice futher north, from where you are, in the coming weeks. :) Maybe you should skip ahead if you can...

evansprater
11-05-2012, 10:44
Thanks HikerMom! I thought about skipping ahead but it would be so much BS and trouble to get all the way back to this part of the country after I got to Katahdin I don't think it's worth it. Heading out today, if you guys don't hear from me it's because I'm on my way to Standing Bear Farm and Hot Springs!

Prime Time
11-05-2012, 10:57
If you reach NH in April, you will have mid winter conditions. April is often the snowiest month of the year in the Presidential's and the snow pack is always many feet deep throughout the White's above about 3,500 feet. Maine in early May will be little if any better on the southern summits, and Katahdin will be closed to hiking for sure. I'm not saying it can't be done but be prepared for brutal conditions. Barring fresh snow, the trail will be mostly well packed but it could be soft and wet resulting in post holing up to your thighs, so you may need snow shoes in addition to micro spikes. Also, nightly low temps in April could easily be in the teens, or worse.

bigcranky
11-05-2012, 11:27
Second, the biggest problem with starting before January is hunting season. If you start in January, you're following the end of hunting season through the state. If you start in December, you're hiking during the middle of hunting season.

Yeah, I don't hunt so the whole hunting season thing doesn't occur to me until after I shoot my mouth off. Around here I just wear some blaze orange in Nov-Dec and it's fine -- your description of Florida hunting makes me thing my idea of leaving in January looks a lot better.

fcoulter
11-05-2012, 17:04
- your description of Florida hunting makes me thing my idea of leaving in January looks a lot better.

Equal time alert. I'm describing the minority of hunters who will ruin your day.

kayak karl
11-05-2012, 17:29
Trek hikes it 1/1 to 6/1 every year or used to. remember he got hurt on 10th? hike. nice guy. used snowshoes for parts of it.