Could I Get a Gear Critique? [Archive]

AllTheWayToMordor

11-05-2012, 01:14

So here is what I have for a gear list for an early march 2013 thru hike.

Gear Weight oz

pack (ytbd) 64
Tarptent Notch 27
Western Mountaineering Ultralite 31
thermarest 14

BD Alpine Carbon Cork Trekking Poles 16

Cooking
Pocket Rocket 3
pot 4
pan 2
Spork 0.2
lighter 1

Water
Gatoraid bottle 1
4L Drom Lite 5
steri pen 4
Aqua mira 1
MSR hydration hose 2.4

Clothes
Wool Long underwear top 11
Wool Long underwear bottom 9
wool hat 3
3 pair socks 5
straw cowboy hat
Crocks 4
Sierra Designs Gnar Lite 11
REI Kimath Rain Coat 15

Sunglasses 1
gloves 3

First Aid/hygine
First Aid Items 6

Dr. Broners 1
tooth brush 1
tooth paste 1
Toilet paper 1
Trowel 3
hand san 1
sunscreen 1

Misc
Pack Cover 4
Leatherman Squirt 2
50' chord 3
food bag 2
BD Spot Head Lamp 3
Wallet 1
data book 3
towel 2
bandana 1
zip locks 1

Total ~ 18 lbs

Many of the weights are estimated (But I was able to look most of it up on the webs)

Could I get a critique. Also I've been lurking here enough to know the arguments for and against the steri pen and a trash compactor bag as opposed to a pack cover so I don't really want to rekindle that discussion.

The pack hasn't been decided upon yet, but I was thinking of the Deuter ATC Zero 50+15. It fit very well at REI, I'm just not quite sure if 50L is big enough (though i think it will be because I was able to do a weekend trip in a 33L bag with bigger and heavier gear).

Thanks for the help!

Leanthree

11-05-2012, 01:59

swjohnsey

11-05-2012, 08:03

What he said. Goin' to something like a ULA Circuit knocks off 1 1/2 lbs. Lots of little things you could do to cut weight, lighter bag, lighter knife, lighter headlight, get rid of the Crocs.

You are probably 28 lbs with food and water, not that bad.

garlic08

11-05-2012, 08:38

Totally agree about the pack. I pay close attention to payload/pack weight ratio. On my AT hike, I carried just over 20 pounds max in my 9 oz Gossamer Gear pack, a ratio of nearly 40:1. Carry 40 pounds in a 5 pound pack, and your ratio is only 8:1.

A four-liter water container would have been excessive for my AT hike, but if it's what you have, it'll work until it breaks. Then get something smaller if you want.

You'll fine-tune it as you hike. Nice list. Good luck.

Maddog

11-05-2012, 09:34

It looks like you've got a pretty good list! +1 on the pack...a ULA CDT will knock 3lbs off your pack weight! Good luck! Maddog:D

Turk6177

11-05-2012, 10:21

Pack: ULA Circuit or Catalyst. I love my Catalyst. You can toss the trowel. Use a stick to dig a cat hole for poo. I don't think you will need sun glasses either. You can use Dr. Bronners for your toothpaste, so you can toss the paste. Instead of one large Bic lighter, you can bring two of the smaller bic lighters in case one goes bad, you have a back up. You may want to add a 1l platypus bottle. Sometimes water sources are further apart than one gatorade bottle's worth of water. I am not familiar with your 4l Drom Lite so maybe you can put a liter in that if it is easily accessible in your pack. I have also heard great things about a Sawyer water filter. I guess it weighs similar to Aqua Mirra and can be used a ton of times. You may want to check that out in lieu of the AM and the Steri pen. AllTheWayToMordor, have an awesome adventure. You will make whatever you bring work, and you will figure it all out. Your list seems pretty good to me.

Karma13

11-05-2012, 10:25

Am I missing the fuel for your stove on there?

Also, 4 ounces for a pair of Crocs seems pretty low. What model are you looking at? I might have to switch. :D

turtle fast

11-05-2012, 10:43

I agree with all previous posters....a pack like a ULA is perfect for you. Sunglasses are unnecessary (its called the green tunnel for a reason) as well as I would argue the sunscreen and substitute it for deet (more for tick prevention) later on when it warms up. For a wallet, just use a ziplock bag. The 4L dromlite is a little big...you may want to look to scrap the bladder and hose and just get a collapsible 1L Platypus and your Gatoraide bottle (also saves you some weight here). I would argue that you do not need the Steripen since you will be carrying Aqua Mira, and use boiling as an emergency backup....as you do not have to worry about mechanical failure from the steripen and you already have a stove.

turtle fast

11-05-2012, 10:46

I mean you don't have to worry about mechanical failure from Aqua Mira as you would a Steripen.

Lando11

11-05-2012, 11:06

dont overthink it, your list looks solid. after a few hundred miles you will know what works for you and what doesnt.
only things i would suggest;carry por or pan, but not both. steripen is a hunk of junk, return asap and use chemicals.
for a backpack you have tons of options. 50L pack is a great size to start with. if you find it becomes too large/heavy, upgrade to a more UL pack. traildays will have many vendors with some killer gear to check out.

AllTheWayToMordor

11-05-2012, 11:29

With that pack list, you should be able to fit into 50L. That being said, the AC Zero is a bit heavy considering how lightweight the rest of your gear list is. It seems like a great pack, but with a non-pack base weight of ~14 lbs, you can probably go lighter. The Osprey Exos 46 is my pack of choice and a full pound less.

Looks like a pretty solid gear list. I may take some tips from it. (like what do you think of the Gnar light 800? have you tried to get it wet? is it everything everyone claims?) Other thoughts:

-Groundsheet?
-4L DromLight seems large for east coast hiking. I personally just carry 2 Gatorade bottles. If you like drinking from a hose, maybe a Gatorade bottle + somewhere between a 1L and 2L bladder.
-You didn't list what you would wear to hike but if you hike in shorts+long underwear bottoms (my cold hiking preference--functional and fashonable) and they get wet, you have no dry long layer for your legs. If you are hiking in pants to start, you should be fine until it gets warm and you buy shorts.

I haven't had the chance to really put the jacket through it's paces, i hope the dri-down is as cool as they claim it is. I'll have a Colorado winter to really test it out before the trail.

I have a ground sheet but have been debating on weather to carry it or not. I'm leaning towards yes, I guess it missed the list.

Part of the reason for the 4L drom is it doubles as a pillow (I'm a side sleeper), but thats not to say I couldnt McGyver a pillow out of the rest of my gear. I will definitely think about getting a smaller bladder.

I'll probably hike in pants.

Am I missing the fuel for your stove on there?

Also, 4 ounces for a pair of Crocs seems pretty low. What model are you looking at? I might have to switch. :D

Ha, maybe I should get better at guessing weights. Yeah, the fuel canister isn't on the list but should be.

What he said. Goin' to something like a ULA Circuit knocks off 1 1/2 lbs. Lots of little things you could do to cut weight, lighter bag, lighter knife, lighter headlight, get rid of the Crocs.

You are probably 28 lbs with food and water, not that bad.

What do you guys use for camp shoes? or do you go barefoot in camp?

As for the pack, I didn't realize I could get away with a small pack like the Circuit. I want to try ULA, but I'm nervous about mail ordering a pack with out trying it on.

Thanks for all of the replies!

Karma13

11-05-2012, 12:10

I love my Circuit! :)

As far as camp shoes goes, I'm waffling. I've got Crocs (10 ounces), a pair of Vivobarefoots that are 8 ounces and comfortable but flimsier than the Crocs, and... nothing. I can't decide. 10 ounces is a lot. But after 20 miles, my feet like to be popped out of their (probably wet) shoes to expand in a whole new set of directions while I make dinner and shoot the breeze.

But 10 ounces is a lot.

I go back and forth. I'm also thinking about starting without, then picking up a pair of Crocs along the way if I decide I want them. They're not exactly specialty gear.

turtle fast

11-05-2012, 12:14

I see Crocks the most, also Chacos, Tevas, flip flops, and water shoes. I do not see true moccasins much, you would think you would see them more often...maybe because they do not do well in a shower stall.

Hosaphone

11-05-2012, 12:36

REI Kimath Rain Coat 15

DriDucks will save you ~10oz

Wool Long underwear top 11

Keep in mind that you can wear your puffy jacket inside your sleeping bag as well. With that in mind, this seems like overkill. I might replace it with the lightest top I could find and just use it for sleeping.

You have arguably the best 20 degree bag money can buy and a pretty serious 11oz down jacket to go with it. You could probably take that combo down to 0F comfortably if you have something for your legs (and the down doesn't get compressed due to the tight fit of the ultralite).

gloves 3

Mittens are warmer than gloves. Bringing only 1 pair of 3oz gloves, you may be miserable and your hands may freeze. My hands get cold easily so I know that for me personally this would be awful.

I prefer a layered system. I have a pair of stretchy ~2oz gloves, some ~3oz mittens, and 1.5oz MLD event rain mitten shells. The insulation gloves and mittens have no shell, they're basically just a stretchy fleece-y material. The waterproof shells are one of my favorite pieces of gear. This system gives me a lot of versatility. I can wear just the event shell mittens alone for rain or wind protection, or I can wear just the liner gloves, liners + rain mitts, all 3, etc. I'm really a big fan of having a fully waterproof layer for my hands in cold weather.

First Aid Items 6

Seems maybe a wee bit heavy. Contents?

Trowel 3

Ditch, I think?

towel 2

I might cut this in half.

Hosaphone

11-05-2012, 12:38

DriDucks will save you ~10oz

(and $200...)

Hosaphone

11-05-2012, 12:43

Oh, one more thing... Consider bringing rain pants. They come for free with your driducks jacket ;)

Your body pumps a lot of blood to the legs, and once the area around your thighs gets wet it will sap the heat right out of you in an all-day freezing rain.

Remember that no matter what rain gear you have, you're going to get wet. The goal of rain gear is not necessarily to keep you dry, but to keep you warm.

colorado_rob

11-05-2012, 12:52

Overall, I really like it but echo what is said just above: Driducks, two layers of gloves (I use 1 oz liner gloves, and 1 oz ultralight homemade mittens), lighter pack, I'm sure with your kit you can get a sub 3lb and be comfortable carrying it.

I'll be carrying only the 4 oz silk long johns from REI, and no extra top long johns, just like said above.

You could save some ounces if you get an 8oz NeoAir vs. your 14 oz thermarest.

But really, nice list. See you on the trail next spring! But hopefully, Katadin is nothing like Mount Doom.

TheYoungOne

11-05-2012, 14:40

I like crocs myself. If you have foot issues like Plantar Fasciitis wearing crocs after a hike will make your feet feel better then something unsupportive like flip flops and water shoes. Plus they are pretty indestructable.

http://blogs.courierpostonline.com/fishhead/files/2012/06/croc2.jpg

And like others have said the pack and rain jacket is a tad heavy

garlic08

11-05-2012, 15:16

UL hikers I hike with do not carry extra footwear. Just loosen the shoe laces.

AllTheWayToMordor

11-05-2012, 15:49

Keep in mind that you can wear your puffy jacket inside your sleeping bag as well. With that in mind, this seems like overkill. I might replace it with the lightest top I could find and just use it for sleeping.

You have arguably the best 20 degree bag money can buy and a pretty serious 11oz down jacket to go with it. You could probably take that combo down to 0F comfortably if you have something for your legs (and the down doesn't get compressed due to the tight fit of the ultralite).

I hadn't considered this, good idea. I was thinking of the wool layer more for day use in the cold, but if I can stay warm enough with a rain jacket while hiking dithing the wool long johns could work.

Mittens are warmer than gloves. Bringing only 1 pair of 3oz gloves, you may be miserable and your hands may freeze. My hands get cold easily so I know that for me personally this would be awful.

I was envisioning a pair of ice climbing type gloves that are reasonably weather proof. I haven't gotten gloves yet so I will need to shop around, I will think about layering up.

Seems maybe a wee bit heavy. Contents?

That was a rough guess. It will include tape, gauze, disinfectant pads and bottle of pills. I will likely end up carrying more tape than needed at the start because I sprained my ankle on the Colorado Trail in the first week and had to tap my ankle for the rest of the hike. Ankle taping takes a lot of tape and I'm a bit paranoid of it happening again.

Ditch, I think?

i think I might just...

Oh, one more thing... Consider bringing rain pants. They come for free with your driducks jacket ;)

Your body pumps a lot of blood to the legs, and once the area around your thighs gets wet it will sap the heat right out of you in an all-day freezing rain.

Remember that no matter what rain gear you have, you're going to get wet. The goal of rain gear is not necessarily to keep you dry, but to keep you warm.

i was thinking about tyvek pants just in case, does anyone have any experience with these?

But really, nice list. See you on the trail next spring! But hopefully, Katadin is nothing like Mount Doom.

If Katadin is Mount Doom, what does that make the Appalachian hill folk?

Hosaphone

11-05-2012, 20:16

I hadn't considered this, good idea. I was thinking of the wool layer more for day use in the cold, but if I can stay warm enough with a rain jacket while hiking dithing the wool long johns could work.

I was thinking the long johns were for sleeping... If they're for hiking, maybe I was wrong to say ditch them.

My cold weather layering system is this: lightweight t-shirt + marmot driclime lined windshirt (9oz). I will typically hike in this down to the teens, adding hat/balaclava/gloves/mittens as necessary. Throw on the puffy when standing around.

This looks like pretty much the same thing you're planning - lightweight baselayer + long johns for insulation if needed + rain shell if needed. Just depends on how heavy your baselayer is, I guess. You'll actually probably be pretty glad to have that extra layer on top if you're starting early March, and after a few weeks on the trail you'll be able to make the call yourself whether you want to send it home or not.

I was envisioning a pair of ice climbing type gloves that are reasonably weather proof. I haven't gotten gloves yet so I will need to shop around, I will think about layering up.

I guess everyone needs to figure out the best system for THEM, but I'm just such a big fan of my event mitten shells... When it gets into the 30's and it's raining, it may / will probably be too warm to wear those big bulky gloves while exerting yourself hiking, but your hands will freeze off if you try to use poles without something on your hands. I guess you could just pack the poles away when it's cold+wet and keep your hands in your pockets, but a layered approach lets you adapt to a much bigger range of temps and conditions.

I don't have any experience with Tyvek pants, but I'll plug DriDucks again... You can get the jacket and pants together for $20 + shipping from their website, or for even less on amazon, etc. Cheap enough that you could buy and try, and no big deal if you don't like them. You just might find that you like the jacket as much as your event one, too... I'll stop preaching now :p

Just try to do some shakedown hikes in a cold rain before you start your thru. That may help you figure out the best system for you personally with regards to gloves/rain pants.

Hosaphone

11-05-2012, 20:29

If we assume DriDucks are $20 and the REI jacket is $200... Theoretically you buy the DriDucks, return the REI jacket and profit $180. You're risking $20 to make $180. I think you only need to have an ~11% chance of liking the DriDucks for it to be profitable to try them :D

turtle fast

11-06-2012, 02:28

OzJacko

11-06-2012, 03:08

I would not ditch the trowel....you know how many s%@t piles you see on the trail...don't add more to the problem. Obviously buy something lightweight and not a gardening trowel or a folding army spade that I have seen others carry on the trail.
I carry one light sand stake that works nicely as a trowel and is always there if I need it for the tent stake carrying the most strain (from wind etc).

Deacon

11-06-2012, 06:59

Hosaphone

11-06-2012, 12:22

Some of the listed weights might be off but I think overall it's a pretty solid list without a whole lot of room for improvement. He's estimating his pack to be 2 pounds too heavier than it needs to be, and he's counting his trekking poles as you point out. Once warmer weather comes he can swap out his 20F bag, ship home the long johns, save another ~3 pounds and be at a pretty respectable weight.

AllTheWayToMordor

11-06-2012, 13:23

Most of your listed weights appear to be inaccurate, and err on the lower side. For example, Aqua Mira is 3 oz purchased, not 1 oz.

I suggest you purchase a kitchen or postal scale to weigh every piece of gear so you know where you're at.

Forget the sunglasses and crocs (IMO). If you are wearing trail runners, just wear them around camp with no socks and pulled loose at the ties. I've not found any crocs lighter than 9 oz.

Don't underestimate the effect of every added ounce on your back.

IMO, you don't need to add the weight of the hiking poles. They are not on your back, and they actually counter the downward weight you are carrying on your back because you are pushing upward with your arms.

Yeah, I was just guessing at many weights so in the total I rounded up to add some buffer.

So I went back to REI and tried on both the Deuter ACT Zero and the Osprey Exos 46. After 1 or two hours hanging out in the store with the packs on, I got the Deuter because it was more comfortable at most weights. Maybe things will change while on the trail and maybe I'll be able to try a ULA or something, for for now I'm going to use the Deuter.

Good news is, it was REI so if I want to take it back I can. I'll know more this weekend after I go for a walk.

Thanks for all the advice. Now all I need to do is go walking and tweak some things. Time to stop losing my mind daydreaming on the internet.

Firefighter503

11-09-2012, 21:30

For the first time ever, I didn't take my trusty crocs with me as camp shoes on a 2 night/3 day a couple weeks back. I went with trail runners (also a first) with the intention of just loosening the laces around camp. It worked out wonderfully (even after stepping in a creek during the day). I went a step further than loosening the laces though - I removed my Superfeet insoles when I got to camp, which gives my feet a bit more room at the end of the day. I saved 13.7 oz (size 12 feet) from my pack weight by not bringing the crocs, so it was definitely worth it to me.

Siestita

11-10-2012, 00:30

dturb

11-12-2012, 16:13

How do you like the Deuter? I've been contemplating getting that same pack. Thanks!

slims

11-12-2012, 17:55

-Don't need a pot and a pan, either or will do.
-Don't need Aqua Mira and a Steripen. Pick one.
-Don't need sunglasses
-Don't need trowel. Use a tent stake or stick
-Depending on your start date you won't need sunblock. Once the leave come in you won't be too exposed to the sun to get burnt.

Deadeye

11-12-2012, 18:16

if you save some weight and $$ by getting dri-ducks (which I recommend, too), get to your local kitchen store and buy a scale, and add an umbrella.

AllTheWayToMordor

11-12-2012, 19:49

How do you like the Deuter? I've been contemplating getting that same pack. Thanks!
Got to take it out for the first time this weekend. Loved it. The suspension is pretty beefy for a pack in this weight range, you could probably haul 40+ lbs in it (I only put 35# in REI). You can take the lid off and use it as a roll top if you want to shave ozs but still have serious suspension. It was very comfortable and carried well.

But its pros are also its cons. I keep wondering if I should lose a pound and go with a lighter pack (I don't think I will because packs with more minimal suspension seem to fit me funny). The roll top means it has a lot of extra fabric in the collar if you're using it as a normal back pack. and the compression straps go over the side pockets, not under them.

But as it stands now I like it a lot.

AllTheWayToMordor

11-12-2012, 19:53

Are you planning to ever make hot drinks? If so, consider carrying with you some sort of cup. I carry a 2 cup capacity light weight aluminum measuring cup. It can be used to heat water directly on a small stove. See:

http://www.nebraskaantiques.com/ebay/VINTAGE%20KITCHEN%20cherry%202%20cup.htm

-Don't need a pot and a pan, either or will do.

The pan I have doubles as my lid and cup for hot drinks (if its on top of a pot of cooking food the drink stays hot), but I'm thinking about doing a tin foil lid and just using my water bottle for hot drinks.

Drybones

11-12-2012, 19:58

The Crocs I have weigh 12 oz (size 12), which I gave up carrying due to weight.
I started with Aquamira but switched to bleach to save weight. You may have something different fom me, mine weighed 4 oz, 1 oz of bleach would last a long time, 3 drops/liter, 15 minute wait time to drink.
I'll offer my $.02 on packs, I used the Granite Crown 60, loved it, 34 oz.

Bucho

11-12-2012, 23:12

The pack hasn't been decided upon yet, but I was thinking of the Deuter ATC Zero 50+15. It fit very well at REI, I'm just not quite sure if 50L is big enough (though i think it will be because I was able to do a weekend trip in a 33L bag with bigger and heavier gear).

That's a very heavy pack for the kind of weight you're talking about. You can get a 50L pack under 2lbs but I'd certainly recommend having a pack under 3lbs.

shelb

11-13-2012, 00:59

I carry one light sand stake that works nicely as a trowel and is always there if I need it for the tent stake carrying the most strain (from wind etc).

DITTO: the piles are from people who do not care.

Dogwood

11-13-2012, 01:08

Since you asked for a gear critique when you only stated assumed gear wt and no other specs or mentioning other desired gear characteristics(function, volume, cost, gear integration, etc) or hiking style I assume you are asking us to make that critique with a heavy bias on that gear being UL. Based on that assumption, yeah, I agree with others, U could have lost about 1 -1 1/2 lb on a pack with similiar features and load handling comfort for the anticipated volume and wt of that gear. Even though I consider myself an ULer I'll tell you, don't get TOO hung up on gear wt. right now. Your gear isn't everything. It's really only a rather small part of what eventually gets you happily and safely to Mt Katahdin. Lowering your kit wt, learning what kind of hiker you are, and knowing what works best FOR YOU while hiking is an evolutionary process and it's constantly evolving as your hiking and hiking gear knowledge increase. Like Lando11 says, "dont overthink it, your list looks solid. after a few hundred miles you will know what works for you and what doesnt...., upgrade to a more UL pack... traildays will have many vendors with some killer gear to check out." I would guess most wannabe AT thru-hikers who actually finish their treks make some gear adjustments along the way. You'll probably be no different. Don't even try to get the supposedly perfect kit set-up because it probably doesn't exist!

Totally agree about the pack. I pay close attention to payload/pack weight ratio. On my AT hike, I carried just over 20 pounds max in my 9 oz Gossamer Gear pack, a ratio of nearly 40:1. Carry 40 pounds in a 5 pound pack, and your ratio is only 8:1. - Garlic08

When you are ready to go to a true light wt or UL pack you might also take note of that sound advice from Garlic. I do the same as him when looking at UL packs. AND, even though I patronize REI on a regular basis, I rarely to NEVER buy a UL backpack from them when seeking a truely UL pack. IMO, they just don't carry many models or brands that are truely the lightest in the UL thru-hiking pack category. Think MLD, SMD, ULA, Zpacks, Gossamer Gear, etc

Have a GREEAT hike. Enjoy the journey. It's only just begun.

Dogwood

11-13-2012, 01:12

Couldn't resist one question. Why the steripen and AM? Back-up?

cabbagehead

11-15-2012, 19:32

some tape to fix a water bottle
about 2L of water capacity

subtract:
Wallet 1
towel 2
bandana 1

Don't use the AT "data book".

q-tip

11-16-2012, 12:13

You could save almost a pound using silk underwear for camp

AllTheWayToMordor

11-16-2012, 12:57

You could save almost a pound using silk underwear for camp
Ooo silk undies. I'm going to use wool until it gets warm, but then probably switch.

Grady Wilson

11-16-2012, 16:01

I didn't see a snuggie in your list. Don't forget the snuggie!

tammons

11-17-2012, 20:42

Looks like a good list.
All I would say is like above, I think you will have a low volume so you wont need a pack that heavy.
Get a ULA or Miraposa or something like that that weighs less than 2#.

Youcould probably lose another pound between water cooking and cloths.

tammons

11-17-2012, 21:31

Your list is good but here are some suggestions
Small things to lose weight

pack (ytbd) 24
Tarptent Notch 27
You need stakes ?? (2)
Western Mountaineering Ultralite 31
thermarest Xlite small and a GG 1/8 pad 10.5

BD Alpine Carbon Cork Trekking Poles 16

Cooking
Fosters bag cook kit 5oz with alcohol stove less alcohol bottle.
<a href="http://s195.beta.photobucket.com/user/tammons3/library/New%20Cook%20kit" target="_blank"><img src="http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z300/tammons3/New%20Cook%20kit/2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

(2) 2L plays, a 2L dirty bag and an aquamira filter + a chlorine dropper bottle weighs about 5.5 oz

(2) 2L platys alone weighs 2oz and just buy aquamira tablets.

A platy 3L hoser with hose weighs about 4 oz or so. Just the 3L bladder weighs 1.8 oz.

Silk johns weigh 10oz
Fleece hat weighs about 2 oz
Crocs are heavier than 4 oz. Crocs are more like 12oz
You could go with lighter rain gear. Driducks are 10 oz for jacket and pants. Good to wear while you are washing cloths.

Sunglasses - on head
tooth powder is lighter
Toilet paper 1oz not enough
hand san 1oz is not enough

Misc
Pack Cover - build out of cuben - 1.5 oz
50' of kelty triptease weighs 1.5oz