Proposed 30 day Visas for non residents will inhibit thru-hikes for non-Americans

[SGT Rock]

I was listening to NPR on the way into work this morning. There is a proposal by the INS to limit vacation Visas to 30 days or less instead of the current 6 month maximum. Seems like for a visiting Canadian, European, Asian, or whoever that wants to come thru-hike, this would kill their chance. Anyone heard about this?

For you non-Americans, hopefully it doesn't take effect or they include some provision for special trips like an AT thru-hike.

[Hammock Hanger]

I met some really cool foreigners out on the trail. I can't remember the trail names from 2001, but Amtrak comes to mind for this year. It was a pleasure to get to know him. Also there was Night Train, both from Isreal. Hammock Hanger

[Lugnut]

I ran into a Canadian this past summer that had no visa at all. He said no one bothered him and his intent was to hike to Vermont and then take the Long Trail home. Apparently it ends almost at the border and is in the middle of nowhere. He said others had done the same thing.

[SGT Rock]

I made an alcohol stove (a Cat Stove I think) for a guy from Israel that was supposed to be thru-hiking this year. I can't remember his name off the top of my head. I'm concerned the country will get too closed. If this happpens you will need a student or work visa to stay long enough, and you can't be a student or be a full time employe on the trail. Maybe that will end up a scam where a foriegn hiker has to pay someone to list him or her as an employe long enough for them to hike. Too bad.:mad:

[Lone Wolf]

It's about time we tightened up our borders. Should have been done years ago. Too bad for foreign hikers. They'll have to settle for a section hike.

[SGT Rock]

I'm not against tightning the borders, I was stationed in El Paso when they had Operation Hold the Line which was amazing. But there are a lot of people, especially Canadians that come to this country for a few months at a time, like the snowbirds to Florida, and have a good time. Most visitors comming here get a positive look at us instead of the negative crap that might come from forign news or propoganda, and keeping us open for such visits is important IMHO.

I've had some dealings with INS, and they absolutly suck. From what I know of them, the people that don't need to come here will still get in, it will be the law abiding folks we want that this will screw up. Sort of like gun control - law abiding gun owners get screwed with because some bureaucrat want to look tough on crime, while the criminals don't care because they are criminals anyway.

[PushingDaisies]

I met quite a few hikers from the UK this year. Most of them only had 5 months to hike. They had to make the decision to skip sections, or just hike as far as they could.

Another thru hiker this year was Relax, also from Isreal. I met him on his birthday. He carried apples, bananas, and cookies for three days to share with the other hikers at the shelter that night. I think that he had a 6 month visa.

Maybe there could be exceptions to the new rules if it indeed happens. I really enjoyed meeting people from different countries on my hike.

[Amtrak]

I was lucky to be in the US 9 years ago or so, so my Visa was stil valid for my thru-hike, but it is hard as hell to get a new visa foro Israelis.. It is a shame, but I don't think asking for one just to "hike the AT" will get a positive reply from your INS... It's a shame.. Also from other countries, I am sure.
Anyway, hope the AT will still get his share of foreigner hikers! You don't have enough of us..

[Bandana Man]

It is regretable that foreign visitors who want to thru-hike will be denied this opportunity. But let's keep some perspective. It is far more important to protect our borders, keep better track of foreign visitors, and do everything we can to prevent future terrorist attacks. IMO, limiting vacation visas to 30 days is one step that will help in this effort. I feel sorry for the many good and decent foreign hikers who will be inconvenienced, but we live in a new age as a result of 9-11. Sadly, life as we knew it ended on that day and will never be the same.

[Blue Jay]

I had assumed most of the users of this site were hikers or at least somewhat familiar with the outdoors. There is no way in hell you can tighten up the Canadian Border. Try an imagine stoping people from crossing the AT from east to West. The border is a lot longer and less populated. This is just one more outragious and very effective attempt to distract the Amerikan public, so they can keep their hands in your wallets and wiping their feet on our constitution. The people they are persecuting are THRUHIKERS. You should be ashamed to be approving this outrage. Remember they'll come for Amerikan Hiker Trash next.

[Lugnut]

It does seem to me that they are using 9/11 as an excuse to water down the Bill of Rights. I thought the Cold War was bad till this; now they want us to believe there is a terrorist behind every tree! The public has become a herd of sheep. So much for the political comment for the day.:mad:

[Moose2001]

Funny, I must of missed the section of the Bill of Rights that granted nonresidents unrestricted access to the United States. What portion is that in? I agree with Bandana. 9-11 marked the start of a war. It's a war we didn't start but it is still a war. It seems to me those who protest our loss of freedoms so loudly are also the same ones who complain our government hasn't done enough to protect us. The only way to protect us from acts like 9-11 is to control who has access to the United States. If that means we must restrict unlimted access to our shores for nonresidents, that's an unfortunate consequence. If this restriction is indeed true, it's unfortunate for the forgien hikers.

[Lone Wolf]

What Moose said. And I'm all for racial profiling too. Thru-hiking is hardly important in the big picture.

[Hammock Hanger]

I would hate to miss learning and sharing culture... BTW: I agree protecting the homeland is a priority. HH

[Lugnut]

I am fully aware that the Bill of Rights applies to only citizens! All I am trying to say is that the "chicken little/sky is falling" things we hear every day are just a lot of CYA in case something does happen. If airport security will strip search an 80 year old caucasion woman just because she is 10th in line then the INS would be arrogant enough to stop Canadian thru hikers. Common sense doesn't seem to be applied anymore. There is a difference between homeland security and homeland paranoia.

[Kerosene]

The proposal to limit vacation visas to 30 days has been in the works for several months now. Needless to say, there has been a huge negative reaction from the vacation and real estate industry, so I doubt that it will pass very easily.


Frankly, I don't see this as "watering down the Bill of Rights" as much as yet another mis-guided attempt to appear to improve homeland security. Believe me that the impact on the international thru-hiker community isn't even a consideration here. Frankly, we'd make a lot more impact if we streamlined and enforced basic immigration laws. The Ann Arbor area is home to a diverse international community due to the University of Michigan, auto companies and world-reknown hospital. Some of the INS stories I hear about from my soccer buddies about their overseas travels verge on incredulous. Bureaucracy, over-interpretation of well-meaning laws and guaranteed employment are insidious in their impact on overall effectiveness and our ability to substantively improve security. Frisking my 12-year old daughter and her mother twice on a connecting cross-country trip simply because they had to have their tickets changed due to weather cancellations isn't helping anyone.

For many reasons, our government has problems getting down to the root causes of problems, preferring knee-jerk politically attractive CYA responses.

[Lugnut]

If you don't believe the Bill of Rights can be watered down then read what is contained in the Patriots Act. It is "1984" eighteen years late.Every thing you do will be in a dosier. Probably the only place you won't be watched is out in the boonies. They haven't had any luck finding Eric Rudolph so they probably won't see us.:D
Another good reason to hike.

[Moose2001]

This is a tough one. No matter what the current administration does, they will be criticized for it. Someone will complain it’s to restrictive or not restrictive enough. It’s to harsh or not harsh enough. We’re not spending enough money or we’re spending to much. We’re doing to much or we’re not doing enough.

One comment that struck me was “Common sense doesn't seem to be applied anymore”. I would have to agree with this. The couple of examples of who was searched at airports seems to reinforce this. After all, it wasn’t 80 year old grandmothers or small children that flew airliners into the World Trade Center or the Pentagon. It isn’t grandmothers who are threating our way of life. Our common sense has been replaced by political correctness. Not focusing on the most likely suspects is ludicrous. It’s as dumb as a cop taking a report of a murder and the witnesses describe a tall, white male with red hair and then the cops go out and look for everyone BUT tall, white males with red hair.

The one thing I’m grateful for though is we can openly debate such ideas. Can you imagine such a debate taking place in the societies of our adversaries? Even though we don’t all agree with what’s been done we can openly exchange ideas and thoughts about it. IMO this free exchange of ideas is the one thing that terrifies our adversaries more than anything else.

I’d also like to commend the forum members for the tone and the substance of this debate. Just about any other forum I’ve seen this kind of debate would of quickly disintegrated to a personal, name calling fiasco. Thanks for keeping it civil.

[Lugnut]

Right on Moose! Our freedoms are our most important heritage, and hikers especially (being freedom freaks:D ) should easily realize it. They are worth whatever it takes to keep them whether the threat is domestic or foreign.

[Blue Jay]

I don't think I was clear enough in my original posting on this subject. You cannot stop Terrorists from entering this country unless you wall off and man the entire Canadian Border. It is truly not even close to being possible. The Amerikan Government is well aware of this obvious fact. The New Nazi Laws have nothing to do with Terrorism, they are clearly a very effective smoke screen. Do you remember the Right to Assembly we used to have during the Viet Nam era or even the World Bank Protests in Seattle. That right is now illegal. Don't believe me, try one. Freedom of Assembly is GONE. The old saying is if you do not protect other peoples' rights, they will come for you. Well they have come for hikers and you still don't care. The melting pot, that is the AT, is a vital and crucial part of Trail Culture. Have any of you Thrus not met and enjoyed a wonderful hiker from another country. Many of them more excited to be there than Amerikans. Even Tree Sitters are now, as I write this, being prosecuted as Terrorists. We are now one nation under GOP, with Liberty and Justice for Oil (I didn't write that one). The DemoNazi are worse because they try to hide their Agenda, current Nazis are doing it completely out in the open. I'm not even asking you to do something about it, it is clearly what you want. I just want you to be aware of what you are doing.

[Moose2001]

Blue Jay – I take GREAT offense at your comparison of the majority of Americans to Nazis. If you disagree with the current administration or even the previous administration, hey, that’s your right. I spent the majority of my adult life protecting your right to voice your opinion. However, you’re way off base in comparing those of us who disagree with you to Nazis. That comparison can in no way be justified. I believe you owe the members of this forum an apology for that unjustified attack.

I’d be interested in knowing just what you suggest for protecting us from terrorist attacks. It’s real easy to point fingers and say everyone is wrong. Tell us how you would do it.

[Lone Wolf]

This topic isn't about illegals slipping thru the borders. Non- Americans don't have a RIGHT to come here. If our government says you can come here to visit but only for 1 month, oh well. So they can't do a thru-hike. Whooppee! There's tons of other more scenic trails in the world. And if a hippy tree sitter falls does anyone here him hit? Or care?

[rickb]

What I'm trying to figure out is how giving a terrorist a 30 day visa rather than a 6 month visa makes us any safer.

Rick B

[SGT Rock]

I think my point and others is this: It won't solve anything.

Imagine if some politician made a rule that you could only drive on the roads from 0600-2300 because most of the drunk driving and deaths from it happened between 2300-0600. That would be true action by a beuraucrat, something he could point to and say he is doing something, something that is worth it even if it only saves one life (boy I'm sick of hearing that). The end result is drunks will still be on the road, just during the same time frame as the rest of us. No one would be any more protected, just a lot of uneeded inconvienience for the law abiding drivers.

The INS is the worst sort of buracracy I've encountered. I have a soldier that works for me that is not a citizen (yes, it is possible and happens regularly) that is about to end his 8 years in the Army, which is the absolute maximum a non-citizen can spend before he gets his citizenship. He has been trying since before he entered the Army to get a citizenship, and over 8 years later is still waiting. Now here are some facts: This guy is good. I mean very good. He is the kind of scout that can be up your butt with a squad of scouts before you know what hit you. He is so good, he has made E7 (SFC, that is a Gunnery Sergeant to you Marines, and a CPO to you Navy guys) in less than 8 years in the Army. He has had backing all the way up to the Post Commander (just a one star) for his citizenship applications and even got called to do his swearing in, but the INS lost his packet! Now there has been an executive order from the President that all Service members that are applying for citizenship are priority, but the INS has decided that this means people that have applied after 9-11 are priority. This means this poor guy is now behind people that only applied 6 mohts ago, and that is what the INS themselves told him. To try and rush it, he has pulled his original request which includes a completed background investigation and re-applied about June to try and get in the priority stack. He has until Febuary 28, 2003, or he will be out of the Army, and we will lose a seasoned NCO that has been dedicating his life to the US, and would be a greater asset than a lot of the native born softies I have in my Troop.

So when I hear this kind of crap from the INS, I realize it won't do a thing to protect me, but it will be a big Cluster F****.

Get tough on people comming to this country. Get tough on enforcement of exsisting laws, but don't piss down my back and tell me it is raining Mr. INS.

[Bandana Man]

INS is clearly an agency in need of major overhauls. This is the same agency that apprehended teen-aged sniper suspect John Lee Malvo long before the D.C. shootings. The INS officer determined Malvo was in this country illegally, but then violated INS procedures that called for Malvo to be deported back to Jamaica. Instead, Malvo was turned over to his mother, who was also in this country illegally. Bizarre. Sgt. Rock, I hope your NCO gets his citizenship. There is no way to defend INS and their incompetent handling of the situation you described.

However, I disagree that the INS proposal is useless, as you and others are saying. The proposal to limit tourist visas to 30 days instead of 6 months is just one of many recent INS rule changes designed to prevent a repeat of what the 9-11 terrorists did. Admittedly, this is a case of closing the barn door after the horse is gone. The proposal will NOT prevent terrorists from exploiting some OTHER weakness in the system, but at least terrorists cannot take advantage of the SAME weakness again. Basically, as I understand it, some of the 9-11 terrorists obtained tourist visas at US consulates overseas, then changed those tourist visas to student visas after they arrived in the US. The student visas allowed them to remain longer in this country than the tourist visas would have allowed. The INS proposal bans or limits these kinds of visa changes. Limiting a tourist visa to 30 days prevents a visitor from establishing the kind of "roots" that the terrorists did. For example, with their student visas, the terrorists were able to obtain drivers licenses, rent apartments, buy and/or rent cars, and so on. Launching the 9-11 terrorist attack took many months. It would have been impossible to plan and organize in 30 days. Of course, just limiting tourist visas to 30 days is not the complete solution, there are so many other areas that need addressed. But, as in hiking, the longest journey begins with the first step, and we have to begin taking steps that will prevent a repeat of 9-11.

As for the commentary by Blue Jay, at first I thought it best to simply ignore it. But it's hard to overlook your statement that compares this country and its leaders to Nazi Germany. I hope you just wanted to "stir the pot" and get a juicy thread going, but if that statement accurately reflects what you believe, then you obviously have no idea who the Nazis were, what they stood for, or what they did. In that case, read some history such as William Shirer's Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich.

I'm glad to live in a free country that protects even your right to free speech, Blue Jay. And as for our right to freely assemble, guess what. We still have that right, too. I seem to recall reading newspapers and watching TV news reports of thousands of protesters across the country assembling freely to protest against war in Iraq. And no one was arrested and hauled off to concentration camps to await their turn in the gas chamber, which is what happened to protesters in Nazi Germany.

And then there's the tree-sitters being prosecuted as terrorists, or so you say. Well, just this week I saw a story on CNN about a man who has been sitting in an oak tree for two months to protect it from developers. No stories about the FBI hauling him off to jail though. Oh, the man may eventually be arrested and charged with trespassing, but trespassing is not terrorism.

Blue Jay, I really, really hope you were just trying to yank our chain. If so, congratulations, you got me...

[Blue Jay]

I realize what I say is inflamatory and I do appreciate the polite disagreement. You just don't get that much anymore. Moose asked for my solution to terrorism. Since I was young, a very long time ago, we have been the number one, by far, pusher of weapons to every scum bag on the planet, including the current group of mass murderers. Just STOP all weapons sales NOW. It's just Trail Majic, you sell death, you get death. The only reason someone would fly his own ass into a building is if you have killed his women and/or his children. This is what we did to most of the 19 (who were funded, trained, and 14 came from, Saudi Arabia. We have now murdered more women and CHILDREN in Afganistan, than they did in NY (one of whom I loved), instead of the justifiable Saudi Arabia (please notice they spared children). Oh yes, I almost forgot, I have read Rise and Fall, a great, great book with many parallels to us. The main one being a population that looks the other way as their government denies medical care to thousands of children. In our case they are in Cuba and Lybia and Iran/Iraq and on and on and on. That makes it sooo much more morally acceptable. If you look at pure numbers I owe an apology to the Nazi (they won't get one either).

[Blue Jay]

Kill all the Terrorists that you want. Each one you kill has sons and daughters. You want more of them just keep on keeping on. Sooner or later you'll figure it out. Save some lives and do it NOW.

[Bandana Man]

Blue Jay, we can disagree without being disagreeable. I hope we can continue to be civil and respectful to each other regardless of our difference of opinions. But we have gotten way of topic and what we have been discussing is hardly relevant to the AT anymore. I agree with others who hope there can be some exception worked out for foreign thru-hikers.

[Jack Tarlin]

This thread began with a direct question about shortened visas and how this may affect the ability of some folks to thru-hike.

It seems to have de-generated into a political thread that has very little to do with the A.T.

With no disrepect meant to some of the above posters, I absolutely respect your right to hold and express your views, but can we PLEASE try and keep strictly political threads to a minimum here on WhiteBlaze. This is simply not the proper place for it, and it inevitably leads to harsh words and hurt feelings. In future, if a Trail-related matter or question comes up that has poilitical/governmental overtones, let's by all means discuss it, at least in so far as your post deals with the matter in Trail-related context.

In other words, strictly political posts and comments are out of place here, unless they absolutely relate to the A.T., or are made in DIRECT response to a specific question. There are 9 million places on the Internet to talk politics; there are very few where we can talk Trail..... is it too much to ask that we try and keep it that way?

[Bandana Man]

I plead guilty and throw myself on the mercy of this website!
Sorry, everyone. I'll keep a lid on it in the future.

[Lugnut]

I think Jack is right and I wish I had kept some of my opinons to myself. This site shouldn't be a soapbox for political rantings. Now that everyone knows I'm a right wing redneck guess I'll shut up!
Sometimes it just takes a graying vagabond to show us the way.:D
Just kidding Jack.

[Lone Wolf]

Now wait a minute.If someone comes on here spewing anti-American drivel they need to be hammered with the truth! I'm a former Marine with a bad attitude toward liberals in general so I ain't gonna hold back on em. Right wing all the way.

[slabfoot]

look, we've done what we've done. when did it it say someone would understand, appreciate or even be thankful. suck it up corporal and get on with it. the fact that i care will never turn the tide. we just did what was the right thing in our hearts. it seems to me now like anarchists rule and we're just big feelin' dinasaures. hit the trail and reminesce wiyh the many like minded vets you'll meet and take the time to listen to the kids and college profs on the path. we'll all come out better in the end. and easyhiker thanks for the great forum buddy, you did good!

[Blue Jay]

Due to my respect for Mr. Tarlin I will comply with his request. I still believe, however, that the exclusion of all nonamerican Thruhikers to be an important, direct, although extremely unpopular AT topic. Certainly as important as most bizzare, lamest, or butt plug issues. After this post I sincerely will try to not bring it up again. To all future Thruhikers who are reading this. Put an american flag on your pack and get to Springer anyway you can. Once across the Canadian border in the woods, no one will ask for identification, unless you want beer and are young (possibly not even then). Do not let anyone crush your dreams.

[stranger]

Whether you want to believe it or not America has one of the most restricting immigration policies for foreigners. The problem is they make it so hard to become a resident that people simply come over on whatever visa they can get, let it expire, and just stay illegally. No one is enforcing anything, and as far as I'm concerned no one cares. Then people sit around and bitch about illegal immigrants taking jobs etc...what they don't realize is that the White American Boss is the one who hires them. 30 day visa's is simply another propanganda tactic by the gov't to make people feel safe. It won't accomplish anything in the long run. Just my opinion and certainly not the only one.

[stranger]

I must apologize for the last comment...in terms of getting off the subject of the AT. I posted before I read ALL the replies and agree that politics are probably best discussed elsewhere.

[Easyhiker]

No need to apoligize, your entitled to your opinion, whether others want it disscussed here or not.

IMO once a topic is started you shouldn't be able to let a few share there view and then decide the topic is closed or should be disscussed elsewhere when others might want to share. That is my opinion though.

[Jack Tarlin]

Easyhiker, noboby ever said the topic was closed, forbidden, or anything like it. All I said ( and you can re-read my post) was that the tone of discussion was getting kinda nasty, as it often does when political matters are discussed, and that I thought we'd be better off to discuss Trail matters, rather than getting into a name-calling slugfest over something that only marginally relates to the A.T. I repeat, nobody was "closing" a topic; there was merely a suggestion that this Forum, ostensibly dedicated to planning and preparing long-distance A.T. hikes, is not the best place to argue politics. Evidently you disagree, but I rather think there are an awful lot of folks out there (we now have almost 500 members) that probably agree with me on this. But if you wanna keep at it, well go ahead if it makes you happy; for a lot of folks tho, I suspect it's a turn-off.

[Lone Wolf]

I'm pro-life. Abortion is murder.

[ganj]

What are the actual numbers of women and children killed in Afghanistan? Civilians die in war, you cannot stop that. Maybe some children will grow up and attempt to avenge a parents death. So what? The idea that we can solve everything diplomatically with lots of love is insane. There are people out there that want to see you and everyone of your family members DEAD. After 3,000 of our own civilians were killed, what kind of solution is left? I was proud to spend two months over in the Middle East last year fighting this war.

[Easyhiker]

yes politics might be better discussed somewhere else.

[chief]

Originally posted by ganj
What are the actual numbers of women and children killed in Afghanistan? Civilians die in war, you cannot stop that. Maybe some children will grow up and attempt to avenge a parents death. So what? The idea that we can solve everything diplomatically with lots of love is insane. There are people out there that want to see you and everyone of your family members DEAD. After 3,000 of our own civilians were killed, what kind of solution is left? I was proud to spend two months over in the Middle East last year fighting this war.

ganj, well said and to the point! it's people like you (and many others) who make (have made) it possible for the peacenick wimps to hide their heads in the sand. they wouldn't recognize reality if it hit em in their stupid tie-dyes.

[Lone Wolf]

Right on chief! I kick hippies.

[Ikkletom]

Just wondering if anyone has heard any more info about this? I've been looking through all sorts of US news and INS sites, but I've not found anything about these plans. I'm hoping it won't be a problem come 2005!

[Blue Jay]

There are a few peacenik wimps in Congress who are fighting this, but it looks like it will pass this session. Just stealth across the border.

[Ikkletom]

Sorry ... hate to go on, but I don't know too much about US politics ... when would "this session" be - weeks, months? Does anyone know any websites where I could follow this issue further?

I'm frustrated by this news ... it's finally bought me out of 'lurking' tho'

[SGT Rock]

I don't know where to follow this. NPR often finds those topics that are ignored by main stream news agencies, especially ignored unless they are spectacular. The average American could care less about tourist visas and probably would vote for it because it sounds like it is being tough on terrorism.

I will try to keep an ear out, but who knows where this will even be brodcast at.

On a positive note, it hasn't been voted on yet, and a lobby of vacation condo realestate agents with money and interests to protect are lobbying against it as I understand it.

[SGT Rock]

Quick update. I found a site that is a law firm specializing in immigration law: http://www.visalaw.com/02may1/14may102.html

They seem to have this stuff on there a bit and may keep the site up to date on the status of the law. I also found some on-line petitions against it. Just search "30 day limit on tourist visa".

[Ikkletom]

Many thanks, Sarge. The best I've found after frantic hours searching for info is a PR from the White House, dated May last year, and a small BBC article hinting at the possibilities from last April ... I see what you about it being tricky to follow.

Btw - NRP = ?

[jlb2012]

NPR is a radio service that amoung other things often gives a different and more in-depth insight into the news. Some people consider NPR to be somewhat more liberal than the other news services.

[Redbeard]

NPR, being publicly funded, is not owned by the three or so "conglorporations" that own virtually every other news media in the U.S. Personally I get my information either from NPR, WorldLink, BBC(yes, I said BBC) or Duetchwelle. It's amazing how much you learn about American policy when the info comes from the outside.:-?

[Ikkletom]

Many thanks for your help, all! I got in touch with the US Embassy in the UK and they let me know that this new legislation - if passed - won't affect 90 day visa waiver trips which is (thankfully) applicable to the UK, as well as some other useful info. That's kept me going for now!

Finally, just wondering if anyone knows when this legislation will be passed if accepted ... could it be months yet?

Thanks again all! :-)

[SGT Rock]

With our Congress, it could be ten years from now or next week.

[Lugnut]

Right now congress is tied up trying to organize commitees which creates the dreaded "gridlock". We would all be better off if this condition continued indefinately. If they aren't passing legislation they can't screw anything up!:D

[Moose2001]

Looks like this proposal died

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/06/foreign.visitors.ap/index.html

[Ikkletom]

That's great news ... thanks so much for the link Moose!! :)

[MadAussieInLondon]

well, i'm an aussie living in london. i plan on hiking all the way in 04.. the standard visa is 3 months. you have to apply to get the 6 months, and then there is no garuntee..

i also have the ins papers to extend my holiday visa if i need > 6 months...

basically, i'll be lucky to get a 6 month visa, but i plan on overstaying my visa. i know i wont be able to afford to come back if i leave when it expires.

its a 1 off oportunity for me at present, so i'm gonna take it. if they stick me in detention for 3 months at the end, so be it, i'll know it was worth it...

and if they shorten it to 30 days? no biggie, i'll just be overstaying longer! :)