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wren again
11-06-2012, 07:11
Having section hiked twice, a total of just 200 miles so far, I was never able to sleep well either in shelters or in my tent. I was always in an alert but drowsy state. Did you ever relax or become exhausted enough that you overcame the anxiousness? Ideas?

Lone Wolf
11-06-2012, 07:15
Tylenol PM. it's what i used a week or so ito a long hike. it will help you to sleep

Capt Nat
11-06-2012, 07:34
I go through that for a couple of nights and then I think fatigue solves the problem and I sleep well. Once into the routine I seem to sleep lighter than normal but well. The first couple of nights out are always really hard for me to rest though...

Malto
11-06-2012, 07:52
Hike further each day. You will fall asleep from exhaustion. :)

daddytwosticks
11-06-2012, 08:09
I'm a light sleeper at home or on the trail. I'm used to it. Sorry I have no recommendations.

fredmugs
11-06-2012, 08:57
Nothing ever worked for me including ambien. I could do a 25 mile day and be dead tired and as soon as I try to sleep I'm on full alert. On my last couple of hikes I have taken my Kindle and could occassionally fall asleep for a couple of hours but that's about it. Reading is the only thing that has any effect for me.

kayak karl
11-06-2012, 09:00
for the first week i can't sleep or eat. after that i can't get enough of either.

leaftye
11-06-2012, 09:03
Yes. It takes me a few days to adjust. I often get less than 1 hour total of sleep during the first two nights.

Creek Dancer
11-06-2012, 09:38
Advil PM and ear plugs. Makes me sleepy and helps with the muscle aches that tend to wake me up. I also follow the same pre-bedtime routine in the same order as I do at home and that seems to help.

jakedatc
11-06-2012, 09:54
make sure you have a comfy sleeping pad and bag/quilt. if you are uncomfortable or cold it's going to keep you up.

RCBear
11-06-2012, 10:02
When nothing else works, benadryl always does the trick for me. my body cannot fight the urge to fall asleep after taking one or two. I wouldnt recommended it as a regular thing, but I also don't recommend not getting sleep regularly either.

G.G.
11-06-2012, 10:11
Ear plugs won't cut out the chatter in your mind but they do help with the outside world.

gizzy bear
11-06-2012, 10:14
i would be afraid to take something that is going to render me incoherent (as would the night time meds mentioned) ....i would like to at least hear if there is something going on around me...

Creek Dancer
11-06-2012, 10:22
Unlike Nyquil or something that completely wipes me out, I don't find the PM medicines render me incoherant. They just take the edge off.

Zippy Morocco
11-06-2012, 10:23
Melatonin is a more "natural?" alternative. It works for me on the occasions I need it. High wind is the one that got me last weekend. I kept thinking, if we make our tents out of sail cloth material what's going to keep it from taking off? I must have slept more than I thought though cause morning came pretty quick.

snifur
11-06-2012, 10:25
Never had the issue myself. I feel very comfortable when I am out in the elements. If I was not comfortable and had trouble sleeping i would have to think that there was something wrong with my sleep system. I would never attempt to medicate to sleep. That just sounds like a dark and dangerous path.

gizzy bear
11-06-2012, 10:32
Unlike Nyquil or something that completely wipes me out, I don't find the PM medicines render me incoherant. They just take the edge off.

i wish i wasn't so sensitive to sleep medications like i am...but if i took a tylenol pm...i wouldn't wake up if a bear was dragging me off...nor would my medicated boyfriend ;)

yellowsirocco
11-06-2012, 11:00
i wish i wasn't so sensitive to sleep medications like i am...but if i took a tylenol pm...i wouldn't wake up if a bear was dragging me off...nor would my medicated boyfriend ;)
Sounds about perfect to me. If a bear is mauling me to death I don't want to be coherent for it. On the other hand bears are the boogie man on the AT, it ain't going to happen anyways and I sleep with my food too.

Slo-go'en
11-06-2012, 11:10
The only time I have trouble falling asleep is when the person next to me is doing a chainsaw immitation.

You just have to learn to be comfortable in the new enviorment and realize that the chances of some critter eating you alive in the middle of the night is pretty slim. Unless of course, you sleep with your food...

Creek Dancer
11-06-2012, 11:13
Melatonin is a more "natural?" alternative. It works for me on the occasions I need it. High wind is the one that got me last weekend. I kept thinking, if we make our tents out of sail cloth material what's going to keep it from taking off? I must have slept more than I thought though cause morning came pretty quick.

hmm..I will have to try that. Might be a better alternative. What I don't like about some sleep medications is that they dehydrate me, which is not a good thing. They are basically antihystimins.
.

Creek Dancer
11-06-2012, 11:16
The only time I have trouble falling asleep is when the person next to me is doing a chainsaw immitation.

You just have to learn to be comfortable in the new enviorment and realize that the chances of some critter eating you alive in the middle of the night is pretty slim. Unless of course, you sleep with your food...

For me, feeling comfortable sleeping outdoors has nothing to do with the fact that I am outdoors. I have trouble sleeping anywhere that is not in my bed at home. But I am a very finicky sleeper.

Josh Calhoun
11-06-2012, 11:33
i usually dont have much trouble anymore. i accept the fact that a coon/possum is probably going to meander close by. if its very loud i will look out. but what has helped me more than anything is a blow up pillow. man i sleep like a baby now!

geomaniac
11-06-2012, 11:39
+1 on the Melatonin. I wake feeling refreshed and not groggy or dehydrated.

Sandy of PA
11-06-2012, 12:33
I found that instead of focusing on sleep, I just tell myself to rest seems to work. My Neo-air and Exped pillow help a lot too.

T.S.Kobzol
11-06-2012, 12:45
Similar for me. My appetite kicks in after 2 weeks on the trail.


for the first week i can't sleep or eat. after that i can't get enough of either.

Burly Buck
11-06-2012, 14:37
1oz of Montmorency cherry juice concentrate to 7ozs of water. It's full of Melatonin and is all natural.

Cherokee Bill
11-06-2012, 14:45
When nothing else works, benadryl always does the trick for me. my body cannot fight the urge to fall asleep after taking one or two. I wouldnt recommended it as a regular thing, but I also don't recommend not getting sleep regularly either.
---------------
There are possible serious side-affects with Benadryl. Just because it has not bothered you in the past, does not mean the next one want send you yo the ER>

I speak from experience :rolleyes:, from just one dose! use CAUTION........

Tipi Walter
11-06-2012, 15:01
Never had the issue myself. I feel very comfortable when I am out in the elements. If I was not comfortable and had trouble sleeping i would have to think that there was something wrong with my sleep system. I would never attempt to medicate to sleep. That just sounds like a dark and dangerous path.

Yeah, who needs drugs? People are quick to recommend benadryl or tylenol PM or ambien or advil PM so we know many people still put their faith in junk chemicals. Here's a way to sleep on backpacking trips and it works for me---take a zero day in your tent and stay on the trail but devote the entire day to relaxing away from people and away from the ratbox shelters and just be an in-tent bum for a day. Sleep all day if you want. Also, if you fast and go without food for this zero you'll be surprised how easy it is to lay back and fall asleep thru the day.

I just did this on my last trip during that Halloween snowstorm and getting caught in a mountain blizzard is another good excuse to sit put and do a zero and fast and sleep.

Creek Dancer
11-06-2012, 15:12
That wouldn't work for me. If I slept all day, I would be up all night.

FarmerChef
11-06-2012, 15:13
I too struggle with sleep the first couple of nights but it generally improves afterward...to a point. The nighttime aches tend to keep me rolling over constantly, especially when it's cold and I have to scrunch up to get my head under the bag. I plan to try an upgraded sleeping pad when the budget allows. Until then, I'm interested in the melatonin. Aside from extra cherries or other fruits, can you find this in capsule or powder form at the local health food store?

Hosaphone
11-06-2012, 15:16
especially when it's cold and I have to scrunch up to get my head under the bag.

Consider wearing a balaclava at night? I have one that will cover everything but my eyes if I want it to. Your hair will be a disaster in the morning, but it can help keep your face warm. You don't really want to put your head inside the bag because you'll be breathing out moisture that will condense in the bag and compromise the loft.

prain4u
11-06-2012, 15:20
I pop a couple of generic Benadryl 30-60 minutes before bed (I have seasonal allergies--so it helps me have less sinus drainage at night and it brings on sleep). I also take a couple of Ibuprofen for aches and pains--so that I am physically comfortable.

Sometimes, I put in ear plugs.

I have a small radio. Sometimes I sleep with it on. I put the ear buds in my ears and tune in to a boring (quiet) radio station OR tune in to just static (white noise) and let it quietly fill my ears.

I am a super light sleeper. I find that the radio helps block out some of the louder woodland noises (owls screeching, loons calling, etc) that can interrupt my sleep or even prevent my sleep from happening.

Tipi Walter
11-06-2012, 15:31
Consider wearing a balaclava at night? I have one that will cover everything but my eyes if I want it to. Your hair will be a disaster in the morning, but it can help keep your face warm. You don't really want to put your head inside the bag because you'll be breathing out moisture that will condense in the bag and compromise the loft.

You're right about the balaclava and the hair mess afterwards. Here I am on the Brookshire/BMT just after pulling off my blue balaclava which is on the ground next to me.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2005/Backpacking-Bald-River-With/i-3xnCzts/0/L/53-21-L.jpg

WalksInDark
11-06-2012, 19:58
Hyper vigilance is what kept our fore bearers alive long enough to allow us modern day humans to make a sport out of sleeping in the wild...FOR FUN!

A couple of techniques help me get better sleep when on the trail:
#1 Set up camp in the daylight. Take a walk around your camp site...get comfortable with your surroundings.
#2 Slow down your hydration a couple of hours before you are planning on going to sleep.
#3 Eat a good meal.
#4 Put your headlight on your head before it gets dark. Test it...while the sun is still up.
#5 Read for awhile until you are ready to actually sleep. If you start hearing "strange sounds" while reading, take a few minutes to "check them out." Figuring what are normal "surround" sounds prior to getting into full sleep mode makes it easier to ignore the same sounds after you have fallen asleep.
#6 Select a spot near where you are sleep to ALWAYS store your headlight/flashlight. Be able to reach your light source quickly and easily...even if you are half asleep.
#7 Decide, in advance, what you will actually do if you have any "Up close and personal" wildlife encounters. Prepare to execute whatever plan you determine.
#8 If some sound wakes you up...take a few seconds to just listen to the sound before you flash your light on it. Most of the time, you will determine that it is the same "normal" ambient sound you heard before you went to bed.
#9 If you hear a sound you don't recognize...by all means "Shine Your Light & Explore Your Surroundings. "
#10 After you have determined that you are just being overly cautious about the suspicious sound(s), enjoy a hearty laugh...take a leak...and go back to sleep.

I backpack solo over 90% of the time and frequently also have difficulty getting to sleep on the trail. The first night or two of every trip is kind of touch and go when it comes to getting to sleep. The last few nights on the trail, I pretty much sleep the night through (not including nature calls).

Hope my suggestions help!

tucker0104
11-06-2012, 22:17
I have worked rotating shift work for 10 years and can sleep anywhere at anytime except for the moment I get in a mummy sleeping bag. I like having my legs spread out so keeping them confined just kills me. Any recommendations?

leaftye
11-06-2012, 22:21
A couple of techniques help me get better sleep when on the trail:
#1 Set up camp in the daylight. Take a walk around your camp site...get comfortable with your surroundings.
#5 Read for awhile until you are ready to actually sleep. If you start hearing "strange sounds" while reading, take a few minutes to "check them out." Figuring what are normal "surround" sounds prior to getting into full sleep mode makes it easier to ignore the same sounds after you have fallen asleep.


I've mentioned this a couple times too. It really helped reduce my anxiety when I knew what sounds were. Becoming familiar with night sounds is part of the outdoor experience. Learning about the surroundings is part of the difference in hiking past a place and hiking through it.

shelb
11-06-2012, 22:24
i would be afraid to take something that is going to render me incoherent (as would the night time meds mentioned) ....i would like to at least hear if there is something going on around me...

Might be easier not to hear the mice running around!

moytoy
11-06-2012, 22:54
Tylenol PM. it's what i used a week or so ito a long hike. it will help you to sleep
+1 on the T-PM. I could tough it out and start sleeping good after a couple of days but I started using a sleep aid for a few days to get started about 10 years ago. When I was younger I could hike with 4 or 5 hours sleep but not so easy now.

MuddyWaters
11-06-2012, 22:58
Why are you on alert?

Wear earplugs.

jakedatc
11-06-2012, 23:27
I have worked rotating shift work for 10 years and can sleep anywhere at anytime except for the moment I get in a mummy sleeping bag. I like having my legs spread out so keeping them confined just kills me. Any recommendations?

quilt that you can open up flat, then wear socks or down booties to keep you feet warmer

enlightenedequipment.com is my pick.. can't wait for mine to get sewn.

Many Moons
11-06-2012, 23:33
Having section hiked twice, a total of just 200 miles so far, I was never able to sleep well either in shelters or in my tent. I was always in an alert but drowsy state. Did you ever relax or become exhausted enough that you overcame the anxiousness? Ideas?

Two Advil, Two Benydryl, two shots of strawberry corn liquior all with big cup of water. Sleep from 9pm-5am. Packed and on trail by 6am ahead of the others. Hike On!!!


Miller

Many Moons
11-06-2012, 23:40
Having section hiked twice, a total of just 200 miles so far, I was never able to sleep well either in shelters or in my tent. I was always in an alert but drowsy state. Did you ever relax or become exhausted enough that you overcame the anxiousness? Ideas?
Great job for your second post. Lots of hits and reply's!! Hike On!!!


Miller

cabbagehead
11-06-2012, 23:44
I get a good sleep when I walk until exhaustion, eat an instant dinner and sleep as soon as possible. I then take my time in the morning and/or sometime during the day.

Josh Calhoun
11-07-2012, 11:59
accept the fact that coons, possums, mice and other small critters are going to be passing by the shelter. sure SOMETIMES a bear might check you out. "man fears the beast within the wolf, only because he doesnt understand the beast within himself" be the dominant predator. dont be scared.

wren again
11-07-2012, 12:04
I am "on alert" because camping in the wilderness is still new to me. Section hike #2 was less stressful than section hike #1 because I knew what to expect. However, just knowing that the unknown is around the next corner (or could occur in the next hour at the shelter) is something I am not relaxed about. Do you become relaxed about it?

FarmerChef
11-07-2012, 12:05
Consider wearing a balaclava at night? I have one that will cover everything but my eyes if I want it to. Your hair will be a disaster in the morning, but it can help keep your face warm. You don't really want to put your head inside the bag because you'll be breathing out moisture that will condense in the bag and compromise the loft.

When it's that cold I wear a skull cap and my smartwool. But since my wife and I share a blanket we can really boost the temps if we crawl underneath. Of course, we have flannel sleeping bags so while moisture does enter the bag it easily leaves it again. That will be more of a problem with the new Apex blankets I'm sewing for our next hike.

Loved the balaclava hair Walter. :)

dzierzak
11-07-2012, 14:16
I have worked rotating shift work for 10 years and can sleep anywhere at anytime except for the moment I get in a mummy sleeping bag. I like having my legs spread out so keeping them confined just kills me. Any recommendations?

18050Selk bag :D

msupple
11-07-2012, 14:47
No great advice here but I am always amazed at how much noise even the smallest furry little woodland creatures can make in the dead of the night. Chipmonks can easily be mistaken for Zombies and axe murderers. We had a bear make so much noise in the Shenandoah's that we packed up at midnight and left. She sounded like she was snapping trees in half. I remember getting up in my BVDs and shining my light through the fog and seeing that dark figure with the all too shiny eyes staring back at me. Nothing we did made her leave the area. We found out the next morning that there two cubs involved. Man did she make a racket. I think it's just a matter of time in the saddle and getting used to it. I only get a little concerned when I'm a little too close to civilization. When I'm out there....I normally sleep like a baby.

Cat in the Hat

HooKooDooKu
11-07-2012, 14:53
I am "on alert" because camping in the wilderness is still new to me. Section hike #2 was less stressful than section hike #1 because I knew what to expect. However, just knowing that the unknown is around the next corner (or could occur in the next hour at the shelter) is something I am not relaxed about. Do you become relaxed about it?

For some, it does take some time to become relaxed about it.

You hear these horror stories of hikers getting attacked and killed by wild animals. It does happen. But you're much more likely to get injured of killed simply driving to the trail head. But because you are used to the drive, you don't perceive the drive as dangerous. So you've just got to be out in the woods long enough so that you start to realize there's very little to fear out there. Basically, it's one of those mind-over-matter sort of situations. You've got to be able to honestly convense yourself that there is really very little danger in spending the night in the woods.

To me, the two main things that help me get to sleep are Comfort and Exhaustion.

On the comfort side, make sure you've got a really nice bed. Unless you're really small, the thing I would suggest is to try to get the new Neo-Air (mummy shaped, not the 1st generation rectangular shaped), and get the LARGE size. The Neo-Air is great if you are a side or stomic sleeper because it's 2.5" thick. The large size is great in that its about 25" wide rather than 20" wide. For me, that's the difference between keeping my arms on the pad v. on the ground.

Otherwise, it's mainly a question of simply convencing yourself that there is nothing to fear. Other than repeating the montra "you're more likely to die driving to the trail head", the only other practical thing I can suggest is to make sure you don't store your food (including personal hygene articals) in your tent. The critters (big and small) you're likely to encounter are going to be after your food... not you personally. So if you keep the food away, you're less likely to have an animal come near you in the middle of the night.


Otherwise, I can understand the feeling of being "on alert". Earlier this year, I took my 6yo on his first camping trip. The whole hike, we kept getting reports of bears at the campsite. So these bears were not JUST passing through. I knew that we were very unlikely to be in any danger, but I was definitely on "high alert" that night. I was exhausted enough that I didn't have problems getting to sleep. But because I was on such alert, I started having lucid dreams. For those that don't know, that's when within your dream, you realize you are dreaming. It was really strange because I specifically remember that in my dream, I was at a party telling someone "I'm not really here at this party because I'm currently asleep in the woods".

Drybones
11-07-2012, 14:54
This apple cider recipe might help you sleep:

1 pack apple cider mix
4 oz hot water
4 oz Jim Beam

jimmyjam
11-07-2012, 15:40
I like the apple cider recipe. I've found that 1 shot of Wild Turkey + 1 benedryl works pretty good too.

Enic
11-07-2012, 16:23
I am "on alert" because camping in the wilderness is still new to me. Section hike #2 was less stressful than section hike #1 because I knew what to expect. However, just knowing that the unknown is around the next corner (or could occur in the next hour at the shelter) is something I am not relaxed about. Do you become relaxed about it?

It doesn't sound like you really have a sleep issue now. It appears to be a confidence issue. "Do you become more relaxed?," is an odd question. Yes, you might relax some when you're accustomed to sleeping in the woods. There is little in the woods that is really "unknown."

My only suggestion to you is try to control your situation until you are comfortable with it. You can't control what happens in a shelter, because others are always a wild card. Sleep in your tent. Always hang your food properly or be comfortable sleeping with it. You know your food is safe, so the rodent scampering won't freak you out as much... Find systems that works for you.

ChinMusic
11-07-2012, 16:34
I always have trouble sleeping the first few days of a section hike. By the end of the trip I usu am sleeping fine. I have found that Ambien works well for me on those first few days. It leaves me with no dependency issues once I return home. So far, I have seen no downside to this plan.

wren again
11-07-2012, 19:21
I'm enjoying all of the serious, informative, humorous and encouraging replies. Winter in Wisconsin might not seem a long now that I know about Whiteblaze!

hikerboy57
11-07-2012, 19:36
part of what keeps you awake the first few days is adrenaline. your body is going through a workout its not used to . if youyve ever done any aerobic activity at night like running, basketball, you usually find its more difficult to fall asleep.
the other part is just getting used to the sounds of the night forest, and realizing a red squirrel is not a grizzly bear(although the red squirrel has a higher likelyhood of going after your food bag>) i take advil pm for the first night or two, and after that im fine.staying hydrated is also important to a good nights sleep.

moytoy
11-07-2012, 21:22
I'm enjoying all of the serious, informative, humorous and encouraging replies. Winter in Wisconsin might not seem a long now that I know about Whiteblaze!
Whoa...WB is to entertain you until it gets warm in Wisconsin? Way too much pressure:)
Welcome to the crowd cyber hikers.

Dr. Professor
11-07-2012, 21:33
Having section hiked twice, a total of just 200 miles so far, I was never able to sleep well either in shelters or in my tent. I was always in an alert but drowsy state. Did you ever relax or become exhausted enough that you overcame the anxiousness? Ideas?

It is an unfortunate fact that every sound in the middle of the night is an ectopic kodiac bear, down from the north for a one hiker snack. I tend to wake up in the middle of the night if sleeping in the wilderness. If sleeping near a shelter, I feel safer -- probably due to the proximity of others -- and I sleep like a baby. That said, I like camping in the wilderness. Go figure.

Grits
11-07-2012, 21:56
Great advise from all but I have found that my hammock has really helped me to sleep well. :) No rocks roots or uneven ground.

ChinMusic
11-07-2012, 22:05
Did it really take til post #58?

Drybones
11-07-2012, 22:13
I tend to wake up in the middle of the night if sleeping in the wilderness. If sleeping near a shelter, I feel safer -- probably due to the proximity of others -- and I sleep like a baby. That said, I like camping in the wilderness. Go figure.

I'm the opposite, never had a good nights rest in a shelter, sleep much better in the middle of no where.

MuddyWaters
11-07-2012, 22:53
I am "on alert" because camping in the wilderness is still new to me. Section hike #2 was less stressful than section hike #1 because I knew what to expect. However, just knowing that the unknown is around the next corner (or could occur in the next hour at the shelter) is something I am not relaxed about. Do you become relaxed about it?

Earplugs
If you die, you wont hear it coming.

Papa D
11-07-2012, 23:01
A comfortable campsite, pad, quilt or bag makes you feel good. I like to read by candlelight and have a few sips of spiced rum.

HikerMom58
11-07-2012, 23:06
I'm enjoying all of the serious, informative, humorous and encouraging replies. Winter in Wisconsin might not seem a long now that I know about Whiteblaze!

:welcome wren again...I felt exactly the same way you did when I first went out. I does get better the more you go out. You won't feel as "on alert". Also, I feel much better with people around me.. the more the merrier for me. :)


It is an unfortunate fact that every sound in the middle of the night is an ectopic kodiac bear, down from the north for a one hiker snack. I tend to wake up in the middle of the night if sleeping in the wilderness. If sleeping near a shelter, I feel safer -- probably due to the proximity of others -- and I sleep like a baby. That said, I like camping in the wilderness. Go figure.

Oh I definitely feel safer with others around. I sleep much better after I've at least acknowledged everyone around me. :) I do like camping in the more remote places as well... hummmm......

Dr. Professor
11-07-2012, 23:34
I'm the opposite, never had a good nights rest in a shelter, sleep much better in the middle of no where.

Intellectually, I believe I am safer stealth camping at a truly virgin site as opposed to at a shelter where food smells may be pervasive and animals may not fear humans. Emotionally, I am a social animal, and am comforted by the proximity of others.

And scotch.

I am comforted by scotch.

Dr. Professor
11-07-2012, 23:39
:Oh I definitely feel safer with others around. I sleep much better after I've at least acknowledged everyone around me. :) I do like camping in the more remote places as well... hummmm......

Great minds think alike, and so do ours!

Zipper
11-08-2012, 01:20
I would agree with folks who mentioned earplugs. They cut out all the rustling.
The other thing I do is avoid looking at my watch. If I look at my watch and it's 11 p.m. then I'm thinking "Only 11 p.m.? This night will never end!" and that wakes me up. If it says 5 a.m. then I'm thinking, "I'm going to have to get up soon." and that wakes me up. Hiking in late fall with long nights, I finally got used to waking up in the middle of the night for quite a while, because I was going to bed around 8:30 p.m. and getting up around 7 a.m. I would just lay awake and think. Sometimes I would replay all the shelters and campsites I'd stayed in on my hike - see if I could remember them all - the thru hiker version of counting sheep. Then I'd fall asleep again. I think overall I got more sleep on my thru hike than any other time in my life. My advice is don't worry about being awake - just roll over, close your eyes and you'll fall asleep eventually - you might be getting more sleep than you think, especially if you don't check your watch.

turtle fast
11-08-2012, 03:10
Benadryl is given in a lot of medical settings as a sleep aid. Though as before mentioned can cause side affects. I had really vivid dreams once from benadryl and awoke like I was suffering from a drinking binge. It sounds like once you get more comfortable, familiar, and relaxed in your hiking routine sleeping should come much easier. I am shocked that no one has suggested a cup of tea or coco as a beverage to "slow things down" later in the night.

moytoy
11-08-2012, 03:23
Did it really take til post #58?
Yes, I think it did.

Grits
11-08-2012, 07:27
:sun He was refering to the comment about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NZVqpBUV0

Prime Time
11-08-2012, 09:43
I know Advil is a staple on the trail, but I think it's wise to err on the side of caution with it. Too much Advil, or any Ibuprofen medication, consumed for too long can have serious side effects, namely ulcers and bleeding in the stomach and intestinal tract. The stuff is not meant to be consumed daily like a vitamin pill, especially in large doses. I prefer Sleepy Time tea or Melatonin for sleeping, aspirin or Excedrin for pain (like whacking your knee or falling hard on rocks), and finally Advil for especially sore muscles or inflammation caused by just the simple repetitive motion of hiking your butt off for, like, 10 hours! I only take any form of meds an average of a couple times a week so I don't carry a medicine cabinet!

Prime Time
11-08-2012, 09:46
This apple cider recipe might help you sleep:

1 pack apple cider mix
4 oz hot water
4 oz Jim Beam
Hold the water for mine. And easy on the cider.

snifur
11-08-2012, 10:09
i hiked from Ga to ME with no meds. Did not take any. If your body hurts and you have to take something to numb the pain that should tell you something about what you are doing. you probably should lay up for a bit. same thing for sleep. why medicate to sleep? makes no sense to me. If you can not sleep, hike more. you will get to the point where you will sleep. the trail is long enough in any direction.

HikerMom58
11-08-2012, 10:22
Great minds think alike, and so do ours!

Yes sir... :)


Hold the water for mine. And easy on the cider.

Funny ....

Prime Time... I notice you are from Sugar Hill, NH I lived in Whitefield NH for a year when I was in 3rd grade... I think Sugar Hill is nearby. That is some beautiful country up around there....

bert_wall
11-08-2012, 15:09
Ha, MELATONIN. As people have mentioned, this stuff is great. A fellow hiker gave me one as I was having the same issues falling asleep......legit. However, as I kept going falling asleep became easier and easier as it just becomes part of the schedule. Wake, eat, hike, eat, hike, eat, read, sleep,...repeat. And if the problem persist, you can always go with the Canadian Mist traveler's bottle (right at 16oz) and still use the container for fuel or something.....it gets the job done ha.

Drybones
11-08-2012, 15:43
accept the fact that coons, possums, mice and other small critters are going to be passing by the shelter. .

Dont worry about critters much when Ruger is along.
18053

As long as I can keep him sober.
18054

Kerosene
11-08-2012, 17:50
I always have issues the first 3-4 nights out, despite the fact that I'm not at all "on alert". Part of it is simply a different sleeping arrangement (I can have problems while traveling also). Part of the problem is that I am simply a light sleeper. I also think that, while I may be physically very tired, my body is somewhat 'wired' after a full day of walking with the wind on your skin.

I use earplugs, which work great for all but heavy snorers. I make sure that I'm appropriately watered and fed before heading to bed. My experience with Benadryl or Tylenol PM has been less than ideal; I'm extremely tired but I can't seem to get to sleep. I've only used Ambien for overseas flights, but I might try that next time out. I'll be checking out Melatonin (pills?).

Cookerhiker
11-08-2012, 18:46
I'm normally a pretty heavy sleeper so natural night noises don't keep me awake. Snores or noises from fellow campers don't either. On those limited occasions where I have problems sleeping, it's nothing to do with the campsite; it's just that some times, it's hard to fall asleep. If I knew why, I bottle it up and keep it.

T-Rx
11-08-2012, 19:28
Oh I definitely feel safer with others around. I sleep much better after I've at least acknowledged everyone around me. :) I do like camping in the more remote places as well... hummmm......

I feel the same way HikerMomKD, especially the first few nights out. After I get into a routine I sleep much better. I am not a fan of sleep aids like Ambien because they leave me feeling sluggish the next day. I will have a drink before settling in for the night but strictly for "medicinal purposes only" haha. I make a concoction called apple pie that I typically carry with me for those "medical emergencies".:D

johnnybgood
11-08-2012, 19:37
I tend to be more of a light sleeper, not getting to sleep for hours. I have found that while I may be tired that simply isn't enough to fall to sleep. Melatonin has a sedating effect but is too mild for me, so generally taking 2 an hour before hitting the hay works well, albeit slowly.

The alternative sleep aid is a little nightcap before bedtime.

Prime Time
11-09-2012, 16:56
Yes sir... :)
Yeah HikerMomKD, I keep telling myself how beautiful it is around here on these grey, 15 degree mornings in early November before there's any snow on the ground!



Funny ....

Prime Time... I notice you are from Sugar Hill, NH I lived in Whitefield NH for a year when I was in 3rd grade... I think Sugar Hill is nearby. That is some beautiful country up around there.... Yeah HikerMom, I keep telling myself how beautiful it is around here on these grey, 15 degree days in early November before we have any snow on the ground. It'll be here soon enough though!

WILLIAM HAYES
11-09-2012, 18:36
try melatonin or take a benadryl they put me to sleep every time

neonshaw
11-09-2012, 22:53
Occasionally I take Lorazopam or Klonopin. I know they are kinda strong but not as wierd as ambien and not as habit forming. Thats the only thing that shuts my mind down when I got a lot going on.

Thats what you want though to really sleep. You dont want to be on semi-alert. If something attacks you, you will still wake up

neonshaw
11-09-2012, 23:13
try melatonin or take a benadryl they put me to sleep every time

I tried melatonin, it did nothing for me, its too weak

ChinMusic
11-09-2012, 23:39
Occasionally I take Lorazopam or Klonopin. I know they are kinda strong but not as wierd as ambien and not as habit forming.
You got those reversed. A benzodiazepine like Lorazopam is more habit forming than Ambien.

hobby
11-10-2012, 00:05
wrong! They are both benoz's Ambien is quicker acting and shorter duration than Lorazepam, but both are "habit forming" Ambien more so than A
tivan (Lorazepam).
Bacarti 151 works best!



You got those reversed. A benzodiazepine like Lorazopam is more habit forming than Ambien.

ChinMusic
11-10-2012, 00:47
wrong! They are both benoz's Ambien is quicker acting and shorter duration than Lorazepam, but both are "habit forming" Ambien more so than A
tivan (Lorazepam).
Bacarti 151 works best!

Uhhhh, Ambien is most certainly NOT a benzo. In fact is is called a NON-benzo.

Furthermore......

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ambien/AN01812


It's unlikely you'll become dependent on zolpidem (Ambien). Ambien and similar sleep medications are effective and much less likely to be habit-forming than are some other drugs sometimes prescribed for sleep problems — for example, benzodiazepines, such as alprazolam (Xanax), lorazepam (Ativan) or temazepam (Restoril).

T-Rx
11-10-2012, 09:24
Uhhhh, Ambien is most certainly NOT a benzo. In fact is is called a NON-benzo.

Furthermore......

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ambien/AN01812

you are absolutely correct ChinMusic. One of the reasons drugs such as Ambien were developed is because of their less addictive properties versus the benzodiazepines.

HikerMom58
11-10-2012, 09:32
I wouldn't think that sleep would be a problem on the trail b/c of the daily vigorous exercise. I sleep very lightly when I'm on the trail but I've only been out for 10 days at a time. You keep um straight T-Rx.. :)

T-Rx
11-10-2012, 10:07
Ambien CR contains zolpidem tartrate, a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic of the imidazopyridine class. Ambien CR (zolpidem tartrate extended-release tablets) is available in 6.25 mg and 12.5 mg strength tablets for oral administration.

this is directly from the prescribing info. For Ambien. Hope it helps clear things up.

ChinMusic
11-10-2012, 13:11
I wouldn't think that sleep would be a problem on the trail b/c of the daily vigorous exercise. I sleep very lightly when I'm on the trail but I've only been out for 10 days at a time. You keep um straight T-Rx.. :)

My max has been 8 days and by the end of the trip I was sleeping fine sans help. Ambien has been very helpful for the first few days of a trip. My plan is to only use it the first few days. YMMV

TT2
11-10-2012, 17:15
try an iPod with podcasts like NPR's most emailed stories. drowns out background noises, distracts you from your worries, and turns itself off after about 30 minutes.

shelb
11-11-2012, 00:07
I have worked with Melatonin (sp), Ambian, Benedryl. I found that there were several things that helped me sleep.
#1: I NEVER sleep the first night - get over it!
#2: I need to watch what sleeping pad I bring. My Nemo sucks! It makes too much noise when I turn over, and I wake up EVERY time! I generously passed it off to my Scoutmaster husband, who quickly "gifted" it to our son who is oblivious to the world when he sleeps...lol. Lesson: Check out (reviews) on your sleep mat for noise factor.
#3: Ear plugs: While I worry about the rare psycho, I do put ear plugs partially in my ears to minimize the noise from the local snorers....
#4: No caffeine or fried foods after 3pm.

Happy sleeping!

canoe
11-11-2012, 00:38
#4: No caffeine or fried foods after 3pm.


fried food on the trail?

Burly Buck
11-11-2012, 01:30
1 oz of Tart Cherry juice to 7ozs of water. Sleep like a baby. Make sure it's Montmorency Tart Chery Juice.

shelb
11-11-2012, 01:34
#4: No caffeine or fried foods after 3pm.


fried food on the trail?

...can happen... depending on where you are at. I had major issues after that Cheeseburger and fries I so enjoyed at Big Meadows in SNP!

Normally, my system could have handled the greasy food, but this time - ah, NO!

staehpj1
11-12-2012, 09:59
I sleep very lightly when on the trail or when camping on bicycle tours. I find I still wake up rested though.