View Full Version : Getting started with alcohol stove - Denatured Alcohol vs Heet
T.S.Kobzol
11-06-2012, 12:24
I'm new to the alcohol stove cooking. I currently have a bottle of denatured alcohol at home. I tested it in my new Trangia and it works fine.
I am wondering about the Heet that everyone seems to recommend. Will Heet boil water faster than Denatured Alcohol?
Thanks.
I have used alcohol stoves for quite some time and my experience has been that HEET does boil water faster than denatured alcohol.
T.S.Kobzol
11-06-2012, 13:12
Thanks for the feedback. This question just came to me yesterday while testing the Trangia. I filled it 1/3 with denatured alcohol and started with a pot of cold water on it. I ran out of fuel and the water was not boiling yet. I am guessing if the trangia stove was filled to max it would definitely started boiling by then but how about if I try to melt snow for water? When I run out of alcohol in the stove I will just have to refill it and reignite the flame (I guess that's obvious :-) )
Leanthree
11-06-2012, 14:56
If you are going to be melting snow for water, I'd recommend not using alcohol. Neither Methanol or Ethanol has the energy content per weight to do that efficiently.
To answer your OP, Methanol (Heet) is slightly better than Ethanol (the vast majority of denatured alcohol) as it releases slightly more energy than ethanol when burned.
FarmerChef
11-06-2012, 15:04
Ethanol is "generally" cheaper than Heet but Heet is sometimes easier to find along the trail unless someone is selling alcohol by the ounce (probably denatured alcohol). I've used denatured alcohol for quite some time due to cost concerns and cooking for a large group with my penny stove. You do have to refill to boil water though boiling the water isn't necessary for a great many meals. Just getting it close and using a cozy to rehydrate or keep your mug warm is often good enough. But it comes down to what you'll do with it and your personal preferences. Either way, you'll be successful.
Yellow HEET has a bit of an edge in BTU output over denatured alcohol from the hardware store. Both are inexpensive, but on trail, a bottle of HEET is a more reasonable quantity to buy and deal with, unless there are others to share a pint or quart purchase.
Yellow HEET has a bit of an edge in BTU output over denatured alcohol from the hardware store. Both are inexpensive, but on trail, a bottle of HEET is a more reasonable quantity to buy and deal with, unless there are others to share a pint or quart purchase.
Well,....I suppose ,....if you say so.
I wouldn't doubt your word.
I have read this several times,....and assumed it to be true.
However,....my recent experience has been contrary.
I had a guy send me an alcohol stove for testing. I initially tried HEET (using one ounce) and have yet to get 2 cups of water to boil with THAT stove.
I ended up running out of HEET and pulled a can of de-nat alcohol off the shelf. Voila! Boiling water.
I'm not sure if this particular stove is defective. I was asked to write a review, but have held off because as of yet have been unimpressed.
Most alcohol bottle type stoves easily boil two cups of water with one ounce of HEET. Also, most of these stoves "Bloom" in under a minute. My RUCAS blooms in about 45 seconds, my zelph Cobalt blooms in 15 seconds!
This new stove that I'm testing takes 2 1/2 minutes! By the time it blooms it has burned a considerable amount of fuel in the center well.
I'm not ready call it quits yet. Will take it on an actual trip to the mountains next week and give it a real world test.
I might do further testing, comparing de-nat with HEET.
Another Kevin
11-11-2012, 00:26
A Trangia shouldn't be taking over two minutes to bloom, unless the base of the container is right on cold ground or you're trying to run it in a high wind without a windscreen. Are the jets clogged or something?
If you expect to be getting your water from snow melting, an alky stove isn't for you. That's the one reason that I'd still tote along a Whisperlite - when you're melting snow, you need a gasoline burner. (Canister stoves also are right out. The butane doesn't vaporize properly in the cold, and winds up just sitting there after the propane has burnt off. Even after the canister is rewarmed, it still doesn't burn right because the propane is gone.)
In a practical application (sitting beside your tent cooking) your not going to tell the difference between denatured and Heet. Other variables will have a much bigger affect on the stove. The type of windscreen is more important than the type of fuel.
I use denatured alcohol for all my stove testing. it has more BTU's than HEET yellow bottle.
Agree with moytoy, it is truly the windscreen, not the fuel that makes the difference. Also while on long section/thru hikes denatured is far easier to acquire near the trail.
I disagree with Moytoy and Phikes. Fuel makes a difference, windscreens should always be used. 2 stoves, 2 windscreens, one using heet and one denatured and denatured will be faster boil as long as the stoves are made the same etc.
Wise Old Owl
11-11-2012, 18:39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YrzN5_h4oTo
The BTU output difference between denatured alcohol and Heet are negligible when used in stove application, even though denatured alcohol does have a slight advantage. A hiker really won't be able to tell a difference.
That said I use denatured alcohol only because it is far less toxic to humans than Heet. Denatured alcohol consists of 95% ethyl alcohol, the drinking kind, but with an additive to make it taste bad, and 5% benzine to replace the water that remains from the distilling process.
Heet, on the other hand, is methyl alcohol, a deadly poison to the body.
I stick with S-L-X denatured alcohol.
T.S.Kobzol
11-11-2012, 20:50
Thank you. Your reasoning was a big decision maker for me.
The BTU output difference between denatured alcohol and Heet are negligible when used in stove application, even though denatured alcohol does have a slight advantage. A hiker really won't be able to tell a difference.
That said I use denatured alcohol only because it is far less toxic to humans than Heet. Denatured alcohol consists of 95% ethyl alcohol, the drinking kind, but with an additive to make it taste bad, and 5% benzine to replace the water that remains from the distilling process.
Heet, on the other hand, is methyl alcohol, a deadly poison to the body.
I stick with S-L-X denatured alcohol.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Drybones
11-11-2012, 21:06
If you want to learn about alcohol stoves go to zenstoves.net and try making your own, it's good knowledge to have. You can take a pocket knife and a beer can and make a stove if you have to. I've burned a lot of fuel in the basement experimenting with a lot of different stoves I've made and learned:
1. Heet burns hotter and with less odor than alcohol
2. The thinner the stove the faster it heats. A stove from a Red Bull can heats really fast but it's really flimsy, steel cans heat slower, an aluminum cat food can or spray can is a good trade off.
3. I can heat 2 cups of water with 2/3 oz of Heet in the basement with a good stove but outdoors real life I use an ounce.
4. It takes about 30 seconds for most of the homemade stoves to "bloom". I always start heating water immediately by holding the pot over the stove about an inch and lowering as the stove heats.
5. I have no personal experience with the Tangia stove but from what I see of the stove I would expect it to take longer to heat than the homemade stoves I use due to the material density. The stove must heat up to vaporize the fuel and the more dense the material the longer it will take to heat.....IMO.
SunnyWalker
11-11-2012, 21:23
No diff between these two: Heet and Alcohol (SLX). Alcohol must be SLX type. Lots of tests done and they end up the same. Minibull designs did testing and there are others on Youtube.
No diff between these two: Heet and Alcohol (SLX). Alcohol must be SLX type. Lots of tests done and they end up the same. Minibull designs did testing and there are others on Youtube.
This is what Jim Woods says about Denatured Alcohol and go to his site to see a chart showing the energy content of denatured and heet.
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html#Fuels
Super Cat Fuels
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fuels that are appropriate for use in the Super Cat, as well as in most other alcohol stoves, have been widely discussed on the Internet, so I don't want to simply regurgitate what others have written. One of the best reviews is available on the Zen Stove website.
Likewise, the names, availabilities and even colors of these fuels can vary from country to country. A good resource for international fuel information can be found here.
The discussion below is a brief summary of the fuels that are either used, or might be considered for use, in alcohol stoves and reflects many of my own experiences.
DENATURED ALCOHOL
Over the years, I've tried a wide variety of fuels in the Super Cat. The best results have consistently come from denatured alcohols, which usually burn hot and clean with virtually no odor or soot production. Denatured alcohols are widely available in the United States, though there is no standard formula for these products among its various manufacturers.
Ethanol
Denatured alcohol starts with ethanol, also known as ethyl alcohol, which is the same type of alcohol that's found in adult beverages and which has received so much attention in recent years as an alternative automotive fuel.
To render the ethanol undrinkable (and therefore not subject to liquor taxes), a variety of "denaturants" or toxic chemicals are mixed into the ethanol to convert it into denatured alcohol. In some countries, dyes (often purple) are also added to help distinguish the product from clear nontoxic beverages such as water.
Methanol(HEET)
One additive that's commonly used is a variety of alcohol called methanol, also known as methyl alcohol, wood alcohol, wood spirit, wood naphtha, pyroligneous spirit and carbinol.
Aside from its use as an ethanol denaturant, methanol is also widely employed as an industrial and marine solvent, a paint remover, a car racing fuel, and as a component in shellacs, photocopying compounds and windshield-washing fluids.
The biggest problem for backpackers is that unlike ethanol, methanol is poisonous when ingested, inhaled or absorbed through the skin (see the "Safety Notes" section above).
Methanol does, however, have combustion properties that are similar to ethanol. A comparison of ethanol and methanol, along with the petroleum-based Coleman fuel that's used in traditional backpacking stoves (like the MSR WhisperLite) is shown below.
Use above link to read more
staehpj1
11-12-2012, 09:40
I don't notice much difference between Heet and the hardware store denatured alcohol I have tried.
That said, the decision to use alcohol should be based on how much fuel you need to carry. Alcohol has less BTUs per weight, but generally a much lighter stove weight. As you start carrying more fuel it loses it's weight advantage. So it makes sense to use alcohol where you can restock frequently enough to get by with carrying smallish quantities of fuel, but at some point as you need greater amounts of fuel it makes sense to go with a more BTU dense fuel. You would have to work out the numbers based on the stoves and fuels in question, how much you cook, and how frequently you can restock.
Most of my backpacking has been short trips so alcohol worked out great. My long (multi-week or multi-month) trips have been bicycle tours and I could find alcohol frequently enough that buying one 12 ounce bottle of Heet at a time made sense.
T.S.Kobzol
11-12-2012, 10:01
For me the decision maker for using alcohol stove is mainly for winter use. I have recently returned back to winter camping. In Maine it means - really cold. Canister stove just won't work well. Alcohol stove or wood burning stove is the way to go IMHO.
I may return to my pocket rocket in the summer or use my wood burning stove more often but for winter camping I need to have the backup of an alcohol stove.
I don't notice much difference between Heet and the hardware store denatured alcohol I have tried.
That said, the decision to use alcohol should be based on how much fuel you need to carry. Alcohol has less BTUs per weight, but generally a much lighter stove weight. As you start carrying more fuel it loses it's weight advantage. So it makes sense to use alcohol where you can restock frequently enough to get by with carrying smallish quantities of fuel, but at some point as you need greater amounts of fuel it makes sense to go with a more BTU dense fuel. You would have to work out the numbers based on the stoves and fuels in question, how much you cook, and how frequently you can restock.
Most of my backpacking has been short trips so alcohol worked out great. My long (multi-week or multi-month) trips have been bicycle tours and I could find alcohol frequently enough that buying one 12 ounce bottle of Heet at a time made sense.
ATTENTION:
Denatured has a higher BTU/lb rating than Heet. According to Zenstoves it is 11,570 vs. 8419
For me the decision maker for using alcohol stove is mainly for winter use. I have recently returned back to winter camping. In Maine it means - really cold. Canister stove just won't work well. Alcohol stove or wood burning stove is the way to go IMHO.
I may return to my pocket rocket in the summer or use my wood burning stove more often but for winter camping I need to have the backup of an alcohol stove.
So do you have a white gas stove, like a Whisperlite, to try in the winter? Far superior to alcohol in those conditions....
G-FOURce
11-12-2012, 17:26
So do you have a white gas stove, like a Whisperlite, to try in the winter? Far superior to alcohol in those conditions....
define "winter"? winter in SC isn't the same as winter in ME or NH, right? also, would the use of a windscreen (snug fit to pot/mug) and a reflective base under the stove not be sufficient in "winter"? i am asking b/c i have never used an alcohol stove and am considering one.
lastly, the ~37% lift in BTU/lb mentioned above... would that equate to about a 2.3% lift per ounce of fuel used in a stove? if so, that seems negligible to me. is my approach to measuring the value suspect?
T.S.Kobzol
11-15-2012, 07:25
I used to have on but it got confiscated on one of backpacking trips where I had to use airlines. I think.it was in 2003. They called me back to baggage handling and pulled it out of my bag. Even though it was empty, it still roles of gas and that was enough for them. I offered to rinse it in the bathroom but didn't get anywhere with the TSA. I ended up buying my first pocket rocket at Pinedale, Wyoming.
So do you have a white gas stove, like a Whisperlite, to try in the winter? Far superior to alcohol in those conditions....
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
define "winter"? winter in SC isn't the same as winter in ME or NH, right? also, would the use of a windscreen (snug fit to pot/mug) and a reflective base under the stove not be sufficient in "winter"? i am asking b/c i have never used an alcohol stove and am considering one.
lastly, the ~37% lift in BTU/lb mentioned above... would that equate to about a 2.3% lift per ounce of fuel used in a stove? if so, that seems negligible to me. is my approach to measuring the value suspect?
Given that the OP is in Maine, I was thinking winter in Northern New England. I would not bother with a white gas stove for winter in Cancun. :) If it is going to be consistently below freezing, if you are going to be melting snow for water, if you are cooking for more than two, or if you don't want to risk that your canister or alcohol stove will not perform under the conditions, then a white gas stove makes sense.
I agree that the efficiency differences between alcohol and Heet are negligible.
I used to have on but it got confiscated on one of backpacking trips where I had to use airlines. I think.it was in 2003. They called me back to baggage handling and pulled it out of my bag. Even though it was empty, it still roles of gas and that was enough for them. I offered to rinse it in the bathroom but didn't get anywhere with the TSA. I ended up buying my first pocket rocket at Pinedale, Wyoming.
Good thing. We all know how dangerous a stove can be with no fuel. I hope you didn't try to take on a nail file or more than 2 oz. of toothpaste, because those could take down a plane.
T.S.Kobzol
11-15-2012, 10:23
About the Whisperlite: I did not like the ergonomics of the constant pressure pumping but I liked the fact that I could pretty much pour gasoline into it and it would still work great. All in all, I don't really miss the stove.
Now I have a Solo woodburning stove that I would use for melting snow when necessary, otherwise I am hoping that the alcohol stove will do the trick for boiling water.
RWheeler
11-15-2012, 11:16
I use an aluminum bottle stove with sideburner jets, so the stove itself can act as the pot stand. I honestly used whatever I could get access too while hiking. Mostly it was denatured alcohol by the ounce on the trail, but I had to buy a bottle of yellow Heet once. Since I was at different altitudes, and there were different temperatures for the duration, any differences I may have noticed can't easily be attributed to *just* the fuel. All I know is that except while in the Smokies (altitude, plus temps in the low 30s), the stove bloomed and fully lit in about 30 seconds. It gave me hot foods and non-crunchy Knorr meals.
You really can't go wrong with either, just grab whatever you can. I topped off my bottle (a Coke bottle that I had happily drank on my way to Amicalola and I still use for fuel) when places sold by the ounce, and it was incredibly cost-effective in my mind.
Not to knock our hard-working brethren at TSA, but once they confiscated my bottle of dandruff shampoo, but examined and repacked my razor with it's enclosed Wilkenson Sword double edge blade intact.
lonehiker
11-17-2012, 01:40
I have used both heet and denatured alcohol and don't notice any difference in boil time. A casual observation is that heet seems to light easier. A wnd screen is important but another factor is the diameter of the pot. The wider the pot the more the flames/heat aren't wasted escaping up the sides.
I can get 95% denatured alcohol here in some drug stores as rubbing alcohol that is 95% ethanol, 5% water, and denatured with only denatorium and camphor as the denaturing agents. It burns really well, and I think it is the safest readily available alcohol fuel to handle and for first aid purposes, although pure hooch would be better I suppose. Drug stores here also carry 99% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol and it has a higher BTU content but is sooty and slow burning, but a fun challenge to see if you can get a stove to burn it. Another challenge is vegetable oil stove, which makes a good lamp fuel with a simple wick like twine, and not a bad simmering stove, and doubles as food of course. Oil and wax can be potentially more dangerous than alcohol stoves though, because they can get bone charring hot, so I never use more than 1/2 oz of fuel at a time in case it spills, and always burn it over dirt not ground cloth or whatever. So when I hike I carry some 95% denatured alcohol for fuel and first aid, some canola oil or olive oil for fuel and food, a beeswax candle or two, also burn wood sticks, and try to remember lighter and/or firestarter. ;-). Sucks when you can't make tea, but it happens.
Always bring a lighter. lol
I can get 95% denatured alcohol here in some drug stores as rubbing alcohol that is 95% ethanol, 5% water, and denatured with only denatorium and camphor as the denaturing agents. It burns really well, and I think it is the safest readily available alcohol fuel to handle and for first aid purposes, although pure hooch would be better I suppose. Drug stores here also carry 99% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol and it has a higher BTU content but is sooty and slow burning, but a fun challenge to see if you can get a stove to burn it. Another challenge is vegetable oil stove, which makes a good lamp fuel with a simple wick like twine, and not a bad simmering stove, and doubles as food of course. Oil and wax can be potentially more dangerous than alcohol stoves though, because they can get bone charring hot, so I never use more than 1/2 oz of fuel at a time in case it spills, and always burn it over dirt not ground cloth or whatever. So when I hike I carry some 95% denatured alcohol for fuel and first aid, some canola oil or olive oil for fuel and food, a beeswax candle or two, also burn wood sticks, and try to remember lighter and/or firestarter. ;-). Sucks when you can't make tea, but it happens.
Always bring a lighter. lol
"Ring of Fire" and "Venom Super Stove" will burn iso with no soot.
Olive oil stoves are hard to light.
I like the smell of beeswax candles. Dadant & Sons Inc.51 South 2nd Street,Hamilton, Illinois 62341 are manufactures of honeycomb "foundation" for the bee keepers of the world. As soon as you enter the town of Hamilton you can smell the beeswax.
I had 4 hives of bees at one time. Lost all 4 due to a virus that came in from Australian bees.