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Alligator
05-18-2005, 08:40
This was in my inbox this morning. I thought I would pass it on to any trail maintainers. Please distribute widely, there are some pics included in the Word doc.



One-Pot Methamphetamine Cooks Pose New Danger

Law enforcement in Southern Illinois are reporting that they are finding full blown methamphetamine cooks taking place in Coleman fuel cans. The cans are testing positive for anhydrous ammonia and are under pressure causing problems, such as explosions and inhalation hazards. Inexperienced officers have picked these items up and moved them around without knowing the dangers involved in doing this.

This method began appearing late last spring in a few states (Washington, Arkansas, Mississippi and Florida) but it is now spreading elsewhere.

Methamphetamine cooks using the “one-pot” method combine the anhydrous ammonia (or fertilizer from which it is extracted), the pseudoephedrine tablets, water, and the reactive metal (ie. Lithium) into one container from the beginning of the process. The idea is to reduce the amount of time needed for the overall process. The danger to subjects and to law enforcement is due to the mixing of all of the ingredients in the one container. The concentration of products builds up the ether pressure within the sealed container to levels beyond which the containers were not built to withstand. The building pressure can create a rupture or bursting of the container exposing the ingredients within to the air. Beyond the damage from the bursting container, exposure of items such as lithium to the air then creates further explosive danger. The growing use of the one-pot method increases the danger to law enforcement and civilians from explosions, fires, and exposure to dangerous chemicals.

It is recommended that individuals who encounter what appears to be a “one-pot” cook take all proper precautions for fire and chemical explosions and do not approach the lab. Call law enforcement and BLM hazmat coordinator.

The Solemates
05-18-2005, 08:53
i still dont understand what "one-pot" means

Alligator
05-18-2005, 09:38
The "one-pot" appears to be the Coleman fuel can, into which all the ingredients are placed. While I have never cooked crystal meth, I believe that other methods involve several steps. This "one-pot" method seems to be new. I see it as a danger to hikers/maintainers because a lot of meth cooking goes on in National Forests and other remote areas. The residues from meth cooking are extremely caustic, and I would hate to see a trail maintainer being injured from what looks to be an ordinary fuel can.

neo
05-18-2005, 10:26
some of the place,s i hike in the cumberland mountains here in tenn.i hear
park rangers talking about making arrest in the parks,catching meth lab operations going on,also at vanderbuilt university were i work,there was
a write up in the news paper by a doctor in the burn unit,he said that over
30 percent of the paitents there are meth cookers and that society has
to foot the the bill,one patiant of his is there the secound time in less
than a year for extreme burns from meth lab explosion,i guess this fool will
never learn,society is stuck footing the bill for this butthole twice,the doctor said meth addicts are also tough patients to deal with,:cool: neo

smokymtnsteve
05-22-2005, 20:25
Free Meth!!!...we as a society should just give meth heads FREE METH..it would be cheaper to the general public in the long run and safer for everybody..HARM REDUCTION it's a better way!

Crazy Larry #1
05-23-2005, 06:38
This was in my inbox this morning. I thought I would pass it on to any trail maintainers. Please distribute widely, there are some pics included in the Word doc.



One-Pot Methamphetamine Cooks Pose New Danger

Law enforcement in Southern Illinois are reporting that they are finding full blown methamphetamine cooks taking place in Coleman fuel cans. The cans are testing positive for anhydrous ammonia and are under pressure causing problems, such as explosions and inhalation hazards. Inexperienced officers have picked these items up and moved them around without knowing the dangers involved in doing this.

This method began appearing late last spring in a few states (Washington, Arkansas, Mississippi and Florida) but it is now spreading elsewhere.

Methamphetamine cooks using the “one-pot” method combine the anhydrous ammonia (or fertilizer from which it is extracted), the pseudoephedrine tablets, water, and the reactive metal (ie. Lithium) into one container from the beginning of the process. The idea is to reduce the amount of time needed for the overall process. The danger to subjects and to law enforcement is due to the mixing of all of the ingredients in the one container. The concentration of products builds up the ether pressure within the sealed container to levels beyond which the containers were not built to withstand. The building pressure can create a rupture or bursting of the container exposing the ingredients within to the air. Beyond the damage from the bursting container, exposure of items such as lithium to the air then creates further explosive danger. The growing use of the one-pot method increases the danger to law enforcement and civilians from explosions, fires, and exposure to dangerous chemicals.

It is recommended that individuals who encounter what appears to be a “one-pot” cook take all proper precautions for fire and chemical explosions and do not approach the lab. Call law enforcement and BLM hazmat coordinator.
i'm teelling you this meth stuff is the most horrible drug invented. it's pure poison. you cannot trust an active meth user or cooker at all, they will stop at nothing to get what they need to make the junk. there was a kid here in chetopa, kansas two weeks ago busted for cooking, they found 7 mini labs in his house! he ran out the back door as the law entered the front, they chased him down the street and he turns and pulls a knife and begs them to shoot him. this small town ain't but 1200 people, give or take and there is a major meth problem here. i'm in total support to eradicate this junk from my community.........

i know what drugs are all about, i did my share at one time and i'm not against a good time. but this meth is a destructer of the family unit. i just read where some guy who was a paramedic down in texas got convicted for killing a state trooper while he begged him for his life because the cop pulled over to see what he was doing parked on the side of the road. he was cooking meth!? this drug has no mercy who it takes and who it destroys.

if you know someone who is on the junk, then do what you can to help them get off if they respond to your aid, but if not get yourself and your family totally clear from them and let them go thru their own hell and then if they survive they maybe able to come out of it if they have any brains left. even if they are a family member. call the law if you have to, don't hesitate......

wanderer

SGT Rock
05-23-2005, 07:29
Just saw a piece here on local TV about the problems they have with meth users in prison, apparently something in the chemicals that make meth strips the enamel off your teeth and most regular meth users end up with a mouth full of rotting teeth and breath that would kill small animals. The dentist for the local lock up ends up having to pull them by the dozens every week.

Wasn't meth invented by some well meaning person as a substitute to get people off heroin or something?

Stoker53
05-23-2005, 09:24
Free Meth!!!...we as a society should just give meth heads FREE METH..it would be cheaper to the general public in the long run and safer for everybody..HARM REDUCTION it's a better way!
Free pot, free crack, free heroin, free aerosol paint and lastly free alcohol and free tobacco ??????

Where do you draw the line? Age old agrugment.....

Pencil Pusher
05-23-2005, 18:59
Not free meth, bad idea. Not even legal meth. Amazing, the crazyness behind that crap.

smokymtnsteve
05-23-2005, 21:03
Not free meth, bad idea. Not even legal meth. Amazing, the crazyness behind that crap.


having meth illegal doesn't affect the crazyness behind that crap...the crazyness is still there and the prohibition of the chemical doesn't change that ...as a matter of fact the prohibition of meth increases the danger to the general public,,,i.e. the one pot cookers being found...cheaper and safer just to give meth heads thier meth..good, clean safer meth than home cooked and U have a greater oppourtunity to get the meth heaed into treatment .... having legal source of Meth would also reduce crime against the general public as addicts wouldn't have to steal to support ther habit.

Frosty
05-23-2005, 21:06
Free pot, free crack, free heroin, free aerosol paint and lastly free alcohol and free tobacco ??????

Where do you draw the line? I draw the line at free Ramen noodles. There are some lines that should not be crossed.

smokymtnsteve
05-23-2005, 21:32
Just saw a piece here on local TV about the problems they have with meth users in prison, apparently something in the chemicals that make meth strips the enamel off your teeth and most regular meth users end up with a mouth full of rotting teeth and breath that would kill small animals. The dentist for the local lock up ends up having to pull them by the dozens every week.

Wasn't meth invented by some well meaning person as a substitute to get people off heroin or something?

another reason to supply clean meth to addicts,,

meth-amphetamine has been around for a long time...military has used it before and still does,...course the military has a good clean supply.


addicts are going to get meth...and will be getting it at some cost to society...what is the most cost effective way to get this addicts thier drug,,,certainly not by stealing and breaking out car windows....and endangering innocent folk with poorly run bootleg labs....better to have it legal and somewhat regulated ( as far as purity and safety)

Smile
05-23-2005, 21:56
McMeth Place?

Very interesting stuff here, interesting to hear another side.
So, do I understand this correctly that they use NEW coleman cannisters and mix in them, or partially used ones? Or ones that are trashed?

Pencil Pusher
05-23-2005, 22:27
That's insanity, Steve. That crap causes some serious dysfunction and you want to provide it FREE to the general population? Eff that. It shouldn't even be legal for the govt to tax the hell out of selling it to these effed up folks. Have you seen the crap that stuff is made of? Smoke ganja, big deal... it's a friggin plant. This crap is crazy chemicals that totally effs people up. Not even ganja should be free... taxed to all tarnation like cigs, sure.

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2005, 07:51
Just saw a piece here on local TV about the problems they have with meth users in prison, apparently something in the chemicals that make meth strips the enamel off your teeth and most regular meth users end up with a mouth full of rotting teeth and breath that would kill small animals. The dentist for the local lock up ends up having to pull them by the dozens every week.

Wasn't meth invented by some well meaning person as a substitute to get people off heroin or something?
i heard it was invented by the japs for their kamakaze pilots?
wanderer

stupe
05-24-2005, 11:16
I think it was developed by Bayer , ( the aspirin folks) , as a decongestant and a stimulant. We used to snort it when I was a teenager. Some percentage of the horror stories you hear are just that: stories. I'm not recommending meth for recreational use, but there is a lot of propaganda and BS put out, part war on drugs, part just talk. Heroin and alcohol users have rotten teeth, too.( look at pictures of Keith Richards circa 1970's ). Paint sniffing destroys a lot of lives and whole communities, too. I bet that alcohol has killed more people than all the other drugs in the world. We have a romantic view of moonshining and bootlegging, but you could get shot coming across an illegal still in those same woods that they are cooking meth in nowadays.

weary
05-24-2005, 12:48
....I bet that alcohol has killed more people than all the other drugs in the world. We have a romantic view of moonshining and bootlegging, but you could get shot coming across an illegal still in those same woods that they are cooking meth in nowadays.
Nay, Tobacco is the deadliest drug.

Frosty
05-24-2005, 13:34
McMeth Place?Brings a whole new connotation to Happy Meal, huh?

Smile
05-24-2005, 17:18
No kidding Frosty!

Just a short story....Paul Harvey did a bit on this recently on his "Rest of the Story" show, pretty interesting, apparently lots of kids as well as adults got real addicted to the stuff, Sears used to sell it in their catalogs as well, apparently in large containers - so you'd have plenty to get you and the family through the rough winters full of colds and coughs....



Stupe: I think it was developed by Bayer , ( the aspirin folks) , as a decongestant and a stimulant.

Heroin was first synthesised in 1874 by C.R.A. Wright, a British chemist working at St. Mary's Hospital Medical School, London. He had been experimenting with combining morphine with various acids....and 'discovered' diacetylmorphine.

Heinrich Dreser, of Bayer in Elberfeld, Germany, noticed that diacetylmorphine was more potent than morphine. Bayer registered Heroin (meaning 'heroic treatment' from the German word heroisch) as a trademark. From 1898 through to 1910 it was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children. As with Aspirin, Bayer lost some of its trademark rights to Heroin following World War I.
In 1914 the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act made it illegal to manufacture or possess heroin in the United States.

Dances with Mice
05-24-2005, 18:00
1. REI Atlanta won’t sell iodine water treatments because iodine’s an ingredient in Meth production.

2. Rural stores are prime targets for hold-ups and burglaries by meth addicts. Drug-related crime is not exclusive to big cities. Never has been, really.

Small stores in isolated areas, like near wilderness trails, are scared. Real scared. Some may decide the risk of being in business just isn’t worth it.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7066/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 20:53
That's insanity, Steve. That crap causes some serious dysfunction and you want to provide it FREE to the general population? Eff that. It shouldn't even be legal for the govt to tax the hell out of selling it to these effed up folks. Have you seen the crap that stuff is made of? Smoke ganja, big deal... it's a friggin plant. This crap is crazy chemicals that totally effs people up. Not even ganja should be free... taxed to all tarnation like cigs, sure.


not to the general poulation PP but to addicts...addicts are aready aquiring the subtance,,,and aquiring it at huge risk to the general population...

'legal" meth would not be so dangerous and be made by safer cleaner processes than the bootleg meth,,,harm reduction it a better way

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2005, 21:06
I think it was developed by Bayer , ( the aspirin folks) , as a decongestant and a stimulant. We used to snort it when I was a teenager. Some percentage of the horror stories you hear are just that: stories. I'm not recommending meth for recreational use, but there is a lot of propaganda and BS put out, part war on drugs, part just talk. Heroin and alcohol users have rotten teeth, too.( look at pictures of Keith Richards circa 1970's ). Paint sniffing destroys a lot of lives and whole communities, too. I bet that alcohol has killed more people than all the other drugs in the world. We have a romantic view of moonshining and bootlegging, but you could get shot coming across an illegal still in those same woods that they are cooking meth in nowadays.
meth usage and the horror stories you hear associated are about 90% accurate...........wanderer

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2005, 21:20
another reason to supply clean meth to addicts,,

meth-amphetamine has been around for a long time...military has used it before and still does,...course the military has a good clean supply.


addicts are going to get meth...and will be getting it at some cost to society...what is the most cost effective way to get this addicts thier drug,,,certainly not by stealing and breaking out car windows....and endangering innocent folk with poorly run bootleg labs....better to have it legal and somewhat regulated ( as far as purity and safety)
i saw on 60 minutes where our US Air Force was giving pharmicist speed to our pilots. the general said there are no laws in war.........they get our soldiers strung out on the stuff, they come home, the family destructs, they lose their jobs, go to prison and some even die. and the government dont care.......................wanderer

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 21:30
amphetamine use by our Military has a long history ...lots of amphetamine use in Korea,

amphetamines have medical uses...but addicts are addicts,,and thy will get there stuff regardless...so I say give the speed freaks all the speed they want ....let'em snort and shoot thier brains out...but let's put an end to the dangerous illegal labs,,,labs that in themselve are endangering the general population....we could do this quickly and cheaply by giving addicts cheap easy access to clean controlled product.

also have needle exchange for the addicts,,,help keep dirty needles off our streets,

Smile
05-24-2005, 21:31
OK, I see what kind of Coleman fuel can, I pictured something different, opened the original posts file...AHA!

Alligator
05-24-2005, 21:51
OK, I see what kind of Coleman fuel can, I pictured something different, opened the original posts file...AHA!Try reading a little slower, your comprehension still suffers:cool: .

This was in my inbox this morning. I thought I would pass it on to any trail maintainers. Please distribute widely, there are some pics included in the Word doc.

...

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 21:53
so liek alligater does it have to B a COLEMAN fuel can or will an Osarks trails can fromUR local K-mrt work? ;)

Alligator
05-24-2005, 22:10
Couldn't tell you SMS, you looking to cook some up? You could probably pick up loads of cold pills if you go through Canada.

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 22:12
naw...I wuz jist b-in silly,,


sides I know a doc who will rite me a scription for benzedrine anytime I want it :eek:

Alligator
05-24-2005, 22:15
I thought that Ozarks Trail was a Wally world brand.

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 22:17
I thought that Ozarks Trail was a Wally world brand.

could B...do da wally world brands work 2?

Alligator
05-24-2005, 22:22
could B...do da wally world brands work 2?
I don't know, I only remember seeing the Ozarks trail fuel in the Wally world store. Besides, you can't buy enough cold pills in Wally world, the check-out scanner will go off;) .

Loads of cold pills intercepted on the Canadian border last year or so.

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 22:29
actually there is a big meth problem in Fairbanks AK,,,

had not heard about the cold pills coming out of Canada,,

How do U know about the scanner going off @ Wally world???? :dance

Alligator
05-24-2005, 22:38
I'm a homebrewer, these things interest me. It was something I read. When I first read about it, the scanners were set to recognize several of the ingredients needed to make the meth, sort of recognizing the recipe. Now, some stores limit the amount of cold medicine and/or keep it behind the counter. Similar to the lack of polar pur at REI. Farmers are having a tough time because cookers break into tanks for one ingredient, I think its the anhydrous ammonia, but I am not too sure on that one.

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 22:45
ammonium nitrate , corn fertilzer

Alligator
05-24-2005, 23:00
Yes, that was it, ammonium nitrate. It was a while ago, but the article talked about how increased scrutiny by police (because of the potential for explosive use of the ammonium nitrate) led to the realization that meth abuse was a growing rural problem. Something like the farmers started locking up the trucks/tanks and were suffering break-ins, but the amounts stolen were small.

Pencil Pusher
05-24-2005, 23:48
Here's the ingredients for one form of meth I copied from a website. I won't post the link because I don't think rock nor troll nor any of the behind-the-scenes mods would appreciate it. This is crazy shlt.

3 Gallons of Anhydrous Ammonia
40 lithium batteries (allthough ive never tried it, ive heard you can replace the betteries with lithium pills)
4 gal of starter fluid
5000 Ephedrine pills
2 liter GLASS bottle
long rubber hose
bottle of sufuric acid
5 gallon bucket
ball of alluminum foil

Ganja is one thing, heck practically acceptable where I grew up, but these hardcore drugs have no place in society. People will sell their souls to get high on crazy stuff like this.

bfitz
05-25-2005, 01:24
Ok, so we have the ingredients. Now what?

SGT Rock
05-25-2005, 05:36
Ok, so we have the ingredients. Now what?
Mix it up in a bucket and drink it.:datz

art to linda
05-25-2005, 07:28
Yes, that was it, ammonium nitrate. It was a while ago, but the article talked about how increased scrutiny by police (because of the potential for explosive use of the ammonium nitrate) led to the realization that meth abuse was a growing rural problem. Something like the farmers started locking up the trucks/tanks and were suffering break-ins, but the amounts stolen were small.


I live in a rural area where Meth is a big problem. Not only the farms are being hit, the local co-ops are being broken into.... we're not talking small quantites! When one of these labs are busted the clean-up is dangerous and costly. Another side affect comes from the fact that a lot of these places are rentals. When one of these labs move on, usually because the area is getting to hot for them, the property is then rented to someone who has no idea what it was used for. The new renters can develope all kinds of medical problems (especially children), depending on how badly the place is contaminated. The small, local officals and comunity members have been reeling from the impact this has had on both the budgets and families in the area.

Alligator
05-25-2005, 08:36
I agree art-to-linda, it is definitely a bigger problem now. The article I had read was exploring the exponential growth and history of the drug and focused initially on small cookers. I believe you when you say the quantities are now large. Meth is definitely a terrible drug, I definitely do not advocate its use. It's just that its manufacture has started to coincide with many of the places where folks like to recreate so I have tried to make people aware of the potential problems they may run into.

squirrel bait
05-25-2005, 09:21
Yes that is the answer Top. Have them mix it up in a bucket and drink it. I agree with the Minnesotian, it's also a huge problem in Iowa. My buddy has to lock up his Ammonia tanks at night in a new barn and that didn't come cheap. FYI I thought it was the Germans during WWII that refined it for use.

Alligator
05-27-2005, 10:40
Ouachita NF

On 5/2, an LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) followed-up on a report of a methamphetamine lab dump on the Cold Springs RD and found remnants of a “one-pot” method of cooking methamphetamine. It was the first “one-pot” lab to be found on the Forest.


Not noted as a one-pot case-

An Asheville, NC man was sentenced in federal court to serve 7 ˝ years in prison for his role in 3 methamphetamine labs on NFS lands. The case began when an LEO confronted a man for expired license plates within the Pisgah NF near an FS campground in Yancey County, NC. LEI personnel found a methamphetamine lab in the suspect’s vehicle and two labs at campsites within the Forest. The suspect advised that he had made methamphetamine at the two locations on NFS lands every day during the previous two weeks.

smokymtnsteve
05-29-2005, 19:41
no one is advocating for Meth use,,,

but by having a legal 'clean" source of the drug for addicts we could prevent/reduce the number of 'bootleg" labs and help prevent common folks from being robbed and endangered by addicts stealing and running dangerous clandistine "labs' and cookers....

who is the law supposed to protect??? heck meth is a cheap easily produced chemical...this current prohibiton is not working and is also endangering the general population due to dangerous labs and toxic chemimals and waste...

legal safe controlled production along with distribution to addicts would go a long way toward making things safer for the genneral public. and isn't that the folks the LAW is supposed to try and protect?

bfitz
05-29-2005, 22:37
yeah, but since the govt would have to put so many restrictions and controls on the use of it, and registering of addicts and pushing treatment and limiting quantities available at any one time etc, that people would still make their own. Heck, I'd be afraid of getting on a list if I was a paranoid meth head. I think decriminilization and harm reducing kind of stuff like treatment and education is the best you can do. Some people cant be helped or stopped just kind of sidestepped is the best you can manage I think, like junkies in the junkie park, just send the medical people in there with free ice cream every once in a while with a cart yelling "Bring out your dead!"

ocourse
05-30-2005, 08:35
I certainly would not want to support a government (tax-based) program that supplies this horrible drug to users. This drug is very dangerous and undoubtedly in many lives it leads to health issues, broken homes, lost jobs, and deaths. It doesn't make sense to support the habit just because some are going to use it anyway! The best leverage against the use of it may be education. Society will always be in danger from illegal activity of all kinds. Much crime is about acquiring money - should we also identify those who steal and rob and just have our government give them money to make the population safer?

art to linda
05-30-2005, 09:56
Some of the biggest problems with meth ( besides being the most addictive drug around ) is that the body actually stores excess so that even after stopping use you're still having it released from storage. Starting with the first use it damages the body, reduces brain function and it only takes a few times using it to establish physical and mental dependency. Longer term use reduces all drives (including the ability to have sex ) to one...... getting more of the drug. Since it is a very easy drug to make we end up with people making their own and using this as a way to also support them selves. Education is the best answer, if people understood just what this drug does to them there might be a drop in those that try it for a kick. Then again, there are always people making stupid choices, it's to bad that they don't understand that this one has such far reaching affects.

smokymtnsteve
05-31-2005, 21:36
I certainly would not want to support a government (tax-based) program that supplies this horrible drug to users. This drug is very dangerous and undoubtedly in many lives it leads to health issues, broken homes, lost jobs, and deaths. It doesn't make sense to support the habit just because some are going to use it anyway! The best leverage against the use of it may be education. Society will always be in danger from illegal activity of all kinds. Much crime is about acquiring money - should we also identify those who steal and rob and just have our government give them money to make the population safer?


Society is already supporting meth users...through crime and dangerous clandistine labs...It would be much cheaper on the general public to just give the addicts the meth rather than have suffer thru having crimes committed for the addicts to support thier addictions,

Having meth easily available for addicts would not change the laws about robbing and stealing, these crimes would still be prosecuted, and having a drug addiction would NOT be a "way off the hook" as is sometimes used now as a "justification" in court,

MOWGLI
05-31-2005, 21:53
I was in the emergency room Saturday morning in Chattanooga and got to talkin to an ER Triage Nurse about Meth. Chattanooga is right in the epicenter of the Meth crisis. He said that since the drug is often made with Coleman fuel, Meth users often ooze the smell of white gas from their pores.

Nasty!

He also said that they see burn vicitms from exploding labs all the time. They usually say things like, "the campfire blew up" or "I poured some lighter fluid on the campfire and it burned me." D-U-M-B

smokymtnsteve
05-31-2005, 22:19
Treating these folks whose "campfire blew up" is another cost that society absorbs....if U just gave these addicts free meth,,,then the ER would be less busy and more available to help real emergency cases ...like sick children ...who wouldn't have to be in a ER wating room with burned meth addicts..

ocourse
06-01-2005, 04:15
Treating these folks whose "campfire blew up" is another cost that society absorbs....if U just gave these addicts free meth,,,then the ER would be less busy and more available to help real emergency cases ...like sick children ...who wouldn't have to be in a ER wating room with burned meth addicts..
Let the government support this addiction with my tax money? Look at another example, not too different. There have been trucks of cigarettes hijacked and stores broken into because of the high cost of a pack, combined with a strong addiction. These crimes can be violent also since so much money can be made selling them. Better not be on the scene when such a crime takes place. The monetary cost of this "habit" is absolutely enormous to society, not to mention the long-term sickness and death, and the risk that non-smokers take just being exposed to smoke. Think there should be a government program just to give out free smokes so we won't risk having our stores and supply vehicles robbed? Would we then be safer because the cigarette thefts would decrease?

bfitz
06-01-2005, 09:32
Ok well the govt isn't handing out cigarettes to junkies, farmers are growin it and making goood money. If respectable clean manufacturers want to make it and sell it at a profit not as part of some taxpayer subsidized program, then I guess Im all for it. Ought to be makin some tax revenue on the crackheads and junkies too, not to mention the potheads. Might even motivate them to get jobs, especially if you start choppin off body parts for stealing, like some other countries Ive heard of. People have a right to be messed up, thats just evolution in action...

smokymtnsteve
06-07-2005, 14:52
ok I can agree with Free Market Meth...right now the government is enforcing and coercing the tax payer to support a governmet interfernce in the free trade and marketing of Meth...a system of producing and distributing meth similiar to cigareetes and alcohol would be better.

but do not force society to support the present interuption of of freedom by this unworkable and endangering prohibiton.

Alligator
06-07-2005, 15:17
How about that Supreme Court decision SMS, 6-3. O'connor, Rehnquist, and Thomas in the minority. Who'd have thought that?

bfitz
06-09-2005, 15:13
yeah, in the end the market is the only effective regulatory device. (Thats why "they" try to keep the consumers confused all the time.) Enlightened consumerism is the answer to all the worlds problems.

bfitz
06-09-2005, 15:16
By the way I used to serve Rehnquist cheeseburgers regularly, and he was always pretty cool and easygoing. Everyone behind the counter was usually um....well we played a lot of grateful dead in that restaurant, lets put it that way...

Bolo
06-09-2005, 17:45
A guy jumps out of an airplane with a parachute on his back. As he's
falling he realizes his chute is broken, now he doesn't know anything
about parachutes really, but as the earth rapidly approaches he realizes
his options are limited, he takes off the parachute and tries to fix it
himself on the way down. The wind is ripping past his face, he's
dropping like a rock, and at 5000 feet another guy goes shooting Up past
him. In desperation, our man with the chute looks up and yells, "Hey do
you know anything about parachutes?!?!?" The guy flying up looks down
and yells, "NO, do you know anything about Coleman gas stoves?!?"

Sorry, I couldn't find the hiking humor thread.
Bolo

dperry
06-09-2005, 18:29
Wasn't meth invented by some well meaning person as a substitute to get people off heroin or something?Hi, Sarge,

You're thinking of methadone, I believe.

weary
06-09-2005, 23:10
J
Wasn't meth invented by some well meaning person as a substitute to get people off heroin or something?
Meth was invented by the Army or Air Force in WWII to keep bomber pilots awake on long missions.

Weary

smokymtnsteve
06-13-2005, 22:37
How about that Supreme Court decision SMS, 6-3. O'connor, Rehnquist, and Thomas in the minority. Who'd have thought that?


I am not concerned by the recent decision,,,the ANCHORAGE DAILY NEWS ran an article stating that the State Troopers will not be charged with enforcing the fed law so it Status quo here in AK!

must be real nice for the Federal government to have so much excess tax revenue as to be able to chase down attack and commit terrorism against sick folk. (what a waste of good $$$ and energy)

smokymtnsteve
06-13-2005, 22:39
A guy jumps out of an airplane with a parachute on his back. As he's
falling he realizes his chute is broken, now he doesn't know anything
about parachutes really, but as the earth rapidly approaches he realizes
his options are limited, he takes off the parachute and tries to fix it
himself on the way down. The wind is ripping past his face, he's
dropping like a rock, and at 5000 feet another guy goes shooting Up past
him. In desperation, our man with the chute looks up and yells, "Hey do
you know anything about parachutes?!?!?" The guy flying up looks down
and yells, "NO, do you know anything about Coleman gas stoves?!?"

Sorry, I couldn't find the hiking humor thread.
Bolo


ah..perhaps U have :eek:

stupe
06-14-2005, 01:19
Here's a link to a horror story I found in the newspaper. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/11/national/11meth.html
I'll take back 35% of what I said about tooth loss, but I still say that plenty of stories you hear about meth and other drugs are BS.

bfitz
06-14-2005, 01:45
Agreed. When is the persecution and discrimination against people smokin reefer gonna end? Its the stupidest thing I know of. Wont some politicians do something, please? It's like, lets think of something we know they're gonna do (like go 40 miles an hour down the hill) and then make it illegal (like set the speed limit at 25 right at the bottom) and then rake in the fine money cause we know that cow will never stop giving milk. I'd vote for almost anyone who'd fight for legalisation. I think they're just trying to keep us addicted to the drugs "they" control. I mean, doctors are trained to basically know what drugs to give people according to the FDA's description of what syptoms fit what drugs. If a doctor tells someone that some type of "alternative" might exist they're hunted down by the government and prosecuted or persecuted or both. Meanwhile the ingredients in all the cheap foods clog up your arteries and worse making you need treatment in the first place, and then treatment isn't stop doing whats bad for you, its take some of these drugs, and not the harmless ones like reefer, but the ones that eat up your liver like tylenol, the #1 cause of liver failure in the US (look it up). All I gotta say is thank the bountiful Lord for reefer! It's one of the main reasons I believe in his benevolence (cuz sometimes he can seem a bit strict...) I doubt I'd be able to forgive him for everything else if it wasn't for weed. (Not that I wouldn't appreciate the joke, if you know what I mean...) waah! I friggen hate hating to see cops. Geez I could bitch about this forever! Its so stinking obvious. But we better not get started...oops did I already...? At least its pretty easy to get away with... hey! how about a thread about good places to hide your weed! Like inside your hiking pole, for instance...

bfitz
06-14-2005, 02:06
Almost everything you hear about anything is BS. My granpa used to say "believe none of what you read and half of what you see..."

stupe
06-15-2005, 00:26
Thanks, BFITZ. I hide my weed in my dirty socks, but more important....act and look like a person that doe'snt have any weed. Then you can get through those quick frisks, it's the deep searches that get you.

smokymtnsteve
06-20-2005, 20:50
I don't hide my weed at all...pocessing some weed is nothing to be ashamed of, so why try to hide it??...if more folks would just openly use then "they" wouldn't be able to lock us all up it would be to expensive..maybe we should all just go tuen ourselves in and DEMAND that the government feed and house us along with medical care, I'm right tired of being harassed about weed while folks continue to commit real violent crimes that the government and law enforcement don't seem to be able to 'get a handle on" but they sure want to harass and fine a smoker.

mudhead
01-29-2007, 11:41
Do they still do this? I have seen a better thread with an example, (looked just like litter!) but am not savvy enough to find it... Maybe it was in some online news article.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-29-2007, 12:23
My information about meth comes from firsthand experience with addicts I met while working - not from the media. Meth is some nasty stuff - even when it is manufactured correctly. It is highly addictive and causes many to behave in violent and irrational ways with regular use. With regular use, the brain chemistry is altered in ways that make normal thought processes impossible - and this renders the user a danger to both himself / herself and others. For this reason, I would never support free distribution of meth and fully support efforts to curtail its manufacture and distribution.

As for marijuana, I think it should have been legalized to mantain purity and taxed to long ago. While MJ can be abused to the point of addiction, that is realatively rare. It is mostly a recreational drug and does not cause users to behave in a danger and irrational manner. It is the height of hypocracy to have a far more dangerous substance - alcohol - be legal and continue to kep MJ illegal. Before anyone ask, I do not use MJ or alcohol - and the kid that hit us head-on was on valium - so have no personal agenda here.

icemanat95
01-29-2007, 13:57
My information about meth comes from firsthand experience with addicts I met while working - not from the media. Meth is some nasty stuff - even when it is manufactured correctly. It is highly addictive and causes many to behave in violent and irrational ways with regular use. With regular use, the brain chemistry is altered in ways that make normal thought processes impossible - and this renders the user a danger to both himself / herself and others. For this reason, I would never support free distribution of meth and fully support efforts to curtail its manufacture and distribution.



Brain chemistry is delicate stuff. I was diagnosed as mildly depressive and prescribed an equally mild medication....relatively speaking. Recently I got sick with a very, very nasty stomach bug. Couldn't keep anything down for several days...including my meds. I was off it long enough that it flushed out of my system. I was generally feeling OK, but I was still dizzy as hell whenever I moved too fast. I realized that this was very similar to what I felt when I first went on the medication. I started taking my medication again and bang, back to normal...more or less. I had to go through some of the lingering start up cycle again, but that's pretty darned tolerable and goes away.

ANYTHING that acts on brain chemistry is serious business. It alters the balance of everything up there. There simply aren't any "safe" drugs. Prescribed drugs, used responsibly under the care of a physician are LESS dangerous, but still present risks...the side-effect lists of most of these things are about a mile and a half long. It's one thing if you've got a medical reason to use them, or even the occasional, critical tactical reason, but recreational use is extremely dangerous, stupid and potentially suicidal.

"Harm reduction" is a dodge. It doesn't solve the problem, the social and cultural reasons people do this stuff. It provides another ineffectual safety net, like methadone. You just end up with another set of very expensive problems.

Bravo
01-29-2007, 16:39
REI no longer sells polar pure (iodine) water purification because "people were using it to make meth"...:eek:

You can't buy glue or carb cleaner at wal-mart under 18 either cause some kid got high with it. When will the craziness end?

Legalize all drugs and after a short period of craziness nature will take care.

Fiddleback
01-29-2007, 20:46
As far as the association of meth and bad teeth goes...it's not really the chemicals in the meth that causes the problems, it's the associated life style and symptoms brought on by use of the drug.

The bad teeth are mostly a result of poor diets, poor hygiene and, especially, the teeth grinding associated with the meth use. The result is that meth users usually have bad teeth and/or very few teeth.

Here in Montana there's a large and expensive program providing dental care to prison inmates. A big portion of that program's expense is providing dentures to incarcerated meth users.

FB

Tractor
01-29-2007, 21:24
Just got my internet back up, logged on and saw this thread with recent posts. After reading post #37, especially, I cannot equate current "meth" with anything resembling what I was exposed to many years ago. Although we were young & stupid, NO one I knew would have messed with this end product, it's manufacture or with anyone deranged enough to attempt it's concoction in such a manner.

I agree with posters, past & present, that this is a big problem but I don't understand why. When I was a kid a friend would kick my a$$ if I tried to do something like it and I would do the same for them. Is that what's different now in some places?

mambo_tango
01-30-2007, 22:40
We had some guys from Detroit that had stolen 20,000 dollars holed up in one of the rooms at the hotel where I work. By the time the police found them they had built a meth lab in the room (they refused housekeeping). Those guys were really creepy.

bfitz
01-30-2007, 22:51
They don't order anyone to take meth in combat situations! Anyhow amphetamines and meth are different things. Your ADD medication can't be smoked. Crystal Meth is like the crack of that class of drugs.

zelph
01-31-2007, 10:43
Very interesting stuff here, interesting to hear another side.
So, do I understand this correctly that they use NEW coleman cannisters and mix in them, or partially used ones? Or ones that are trashed?



Here is a link with photos that give a better idea of what they are refering to.

http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/employees/visitassist/pdfs/meth-pot-danger.pdf




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Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-31-2007, 15:08
Long term, heavy use of the oral medication will produce the same effects as crystal meth - Most people know at least one story of a trucker going over the edge on speed. Military personnel would be no different I imagine if fed spped in mass amounts over a long period. I'm assuming the military does not use speed in this manner?????

bfitz
01-31-2007, 17:35
Long term, heavy use of the oral medication will produce the same effects as crystal meth - Most people know at least one story of a trucker going over the edge on speed. Military personnel would be no different I imagine if fed spped in mass amounts over a long period. I'm assuming the military does not use speed in this manner?????
You are correct, the military does not use speed in this manner. Many twelve year olds do by perscription though, without much problem. Dosage makes a difference, granted.

mweinstone
01-31-2007, 17:49
a word about mr bfitzulization and the dino. these two folks of ours are a vairiable treasure trove full of medical knowalage. bfitze is a walking pdr and dinobreath is ,... well lets just say shes a drug counsler, shrinko judge judyizin your basic mom. and when you combine these two , you get web md on crack.get it? well for the straights out there, bfitz has studyed the ins and outs of the horrifing desize , diabeatys. while madam dino has been there done that so many times shes a walking history of higher brain funcktions and there related patterns of curative powers. well, sumpin like dat! the point is, i love these two, i pray for these two, and in heven i hope and fully exspect to be in the same bleachers as them, cheering the work.

so i propose a medical thinggy threadchamacallit. with topics like, thruhiking with addiction and im out of insulin in the 100 mile wilderness! give me your sugar or ill die and,..does my artificial hip smell like its burning? other topics,....i ate too much and hiking with anorexia belimia. any thaughts?



other than im a nut......

RAT
01-31-2007, 21:08
Wasn't meth invented by some well meaning person as a substitute to get people off heroin or something?

Hitler came up with one of the first methods for making it in order to make soldiers stay up longer , fight harder and be more aggressive without the need for food, etc.

It is ICE a pure form of meth that you need to worry about, not the one-pot or bathtub style crank. This was invented by the asians i think and started and is still rampant in hawaii. Meth affects people in different ways but it is very addictive and leads down a road of no return and is VERY VERY hard to get off of. Making it is very dangerous even for the well experienced and its by products which are dumped into hotel room sewers, national forests etc, are very harmful. But like like the rest of the war on drugs, it will be hard if not impossible to ever stop. Making the needed ingredients so hard to obtain has had an affect on it but the mexicans have taken over this once biker run business so they get the stuff needed much easier. good luck doing anything about it, but my praises to anyone that can get off the stuff, I know how hard it can be. Oh and it doesnt actually break down the enamel on the outside of the teeth but more form the inside out, the tooth decay comes from eating sweets instead of food and grinding of the teeth which is very common practice for meth users.

RAT

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-31-2007, 21:49
::: gives Matthewski a big ol' mama dino hug :::

bfitz
02-01-2007, 01:07
I dunno, MF, man has synthesized some pretty interesting chemicals. Blanket statements are almost always wrong, in my opinion.

MikeG
02-23-2007, 00:10
whoever keeps saying the US government gave/gives US soldiers meth, is most likely a meth head themselves.....

during WWII and other conflicts the army/airforce gave out benzodrine (sp?) which was a stiumulant to keep you awake, not meth......your getting confused with the germans during ww2 who DID issue out meth to soldiers on the easter front fighting the russians. also i dont remember if hitlers personal doctors gave him meth, or that he was belvied to be addicted to meth but he showed many signes of a typical meth user near the end of the war.

bfitz
02-28-2007, 00:05
Yeah, JFK was on it, too.