View Full Version : Winter Equipment Upgrade
Thinking about these items to upgrade my normal 3 season gear to four season. Any thoughts?
Enlightened Equipment Revelation X 0° + 30% Overfill $230
Hillsound Trail Crampon $59
Volara .125" x 60" x 72" (2 Yards) $15
Black Diamond Trail Ergo Trekking Poles $109.95
Outdoor Research Verglas Gaiters $46.99
Outdoor Research Highcamp 3 Finger Gloves $84.00
Outdoor Research Ninja Fleece Balaclava $21.98
Marmut Zeus Down Jacket $149.98
Goosefeet Gear Down Pants 3.5oz Fill $150.00
Goosefeet Gear Down Socks $69.00
Goosefeet Gear Waterproof Overbooties w/ Toughtek sole $45.00
Keen Summit Country 2 Boots $104.99
Mountain Mike
11-12-2012, 22:07
Down pants might be overkill. I pay more attention to thicker under layers then wind/water resistant pants (I love my rail riders) Then hard shell. Allows more control of temp when hiking. Down socks I can see no purpose in since compressed down has little insulating value. Better off with wool or synthetic. Down booties +++ for nights around camp. For the hands I prefer mittens shells with liners, gloves, mitten or both beneath depending on conditions & dexterity needed. Normally a light weight glove, then insulating layer, then shell mitten.
BD used to offer a whip-it for some hiking poles. It was a self arrest spike that could be inserted on their treking poles when a ice axe wasn't really needed. Something to consider if you plan to hit snow slopes.18077
It's Down booties. All the down is for camp, not hiking. I'm torn between the mittens and hybrid mittens but may go with the mittens.
evansprater
11-12-2012, 22:27
Down pants might be overkill. I pay more attention to thicker under layers then wind/water resistant pants (I love my rail riders) Then hard shell. Allows more control of temp when hiking. Down socks I can see no purpose in since compressed down has little insulating value. Better off with wool or synthetic. Down booties +++ for nights around camp. For the hands I prefer mittens shells with liners, gloves, mitten or both beneath depending on conditions & dexterity needed. Normally a light weight glove, then insulating layer, then shell mitten.
BD used to offer a whip-it for some hiking poles. It was a self arrest spike that could be inserted on their treking poles when a ice axe wasn't really needed. Something to consider if you plan to hit snow slopes.18077
I just used the hillsound trail crampons in the smokies and they broke after 20 miles of snow walking - either get the PRO version or the kathoola microspikes, i was very disappointed with them.
That gear list looks very nice. First, a thought.
Drafts around and below 20°F are going to suck. It might help to wear thermals, but then you have to deal with removing them.
Some people have had Hillsound Trail Crampons break, but so have Microspikes users. If you can get it from a place that allows easy returns and exchanges like REI, then buy whichever one you can get there.
The Volara sounds like it'll be used as a tent floor to make it a nicer place to spend long nights. I can certainly understand that. Being restricted to a tiny mattress for 12 hours is no fun at all. If I'm wrong, I certainly hope you'll have another pad to sleep on.
I don't think the balaclava is warm enough. I use a Rayway puffy bomber hat until it gets into the mid 20's, and then switch to a down balaclava.
I would carry snow cups when using trekking poles over a lot of snow.
Those boots don't look like they'll breathe well. Extra socks, extra time to dry them next to a fire, or a vapor barrier might be a good idea on longer trips.
Microspikes it is.
The foam is a supplement a insulated air pad.
I was going to sleep in the down garments.
Have a really warm wool hat also.
Vapor barrier socks are a good suggestion.
Mountain Mike
11-12-2012, 23:09
I use full length foam & 3/4 thermarest for winter.
If you don't want to spend money on vapor barrier socks for years in scouts I used bread bags over a liner & under thicker sock. It worked really well. Luckily I had an in at local commercial bread plant & got stacks of new ones.
I hiked well over a hundred miles in 2011 in micro spikes. They served their purpose but have a small tear in the rubber after all that use. As far as the rest of the gear list.... I am going through the same excercise. My three season gear was developed for the PCT and has worked well for everything I have been through. I have even had it in the Sierra in the winter down below zero with the addition of a CCF pad, sleeping bag liner, warmer gloves and a fleece. But I plan on doing more winter camping since I moved to pa and I added the following elements.
1) cuben fiber rain suit including booties which I will use as a VBL. Initial tests have been very positive.
2) I have switched to a neoair xtherm and have been extremely impressed with it on my first two trips out. I am not a gear geek at all but this pad is awesome. I also got a camptek inflator to spare me the time to blow up the mat.
3) I am going to get a white gas stove. In the Sierra I was able to find water though it was sometimes a challenge to get. Not sure how PA and the NE will be but a white gas stove will allow me to melt snow for water.
4) I will continue to take upgraded gloves and the sleeping bag liner and fleece. I fully expect that this system will allow me to sleep comfortably down to about zero with the above changes.
I should also note that I either walk or sleep so there is no hanging around a snow pit. This eliminates the need for a bunch of extra camp insulation. The one area that I'm still playing with is foot ware when I'm not in snowshoes. I know my setup will work, I walked over 500 miles in snow on my PCT hike but I would rather not put my feet through the hell that they went through on my hike.
I use full length foam & 3/4 thermarest for winter.
If you don't want to spend money on vapor barrier socks for years in scouts I used bread bags over a liner & under thicker sock. It worked really well. Luckily I had an in at local commercial bread plant & got stacks of new ones.
I have a 25" x 78" insulated air pad that is really comfortable. The Volara foam will add just enough insulation for winter.
I should also note that I either walk or sleep so there is no hanging around a snow pit.
That's a LOT of sleeping in the winter unless you're hiking at night. I'll wake up early to hike, but stop at sunset. With 14+ hour nights on winter solstice, I spend a lot of time awake in my shelter.
During normal thru hiking season, I agree with not having warm clothing for camp.
Drybones
11-13-2012, 16:26
I have the Marmot jacket and love it, you can get one for about $84 at Sierra Trading post, they have a special sale that ends 11/15/12. I couldn't see paying the price for the Goosefeet so I took the arms off a down jacket I had cannibalized to get extra down for a sleeping bag and made booties from them.
Drybones
11-13-2012, 16:35
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/marmot-zeus-down-jacket-800-fill-power-for-men~p~4332h/?filterString=mens-down-jackets~d~5269%2FMarmot~b~1308%2F&colorFamily=05
The Marmot jacket is $112 with another 35% off...thought about buying another one but didn't.
I have the Marmot jacket and love it, you can get one for about $84 at Sierra Trading post, they have a special sale that ends 11/15/12. I couldn't see paying the price for the Goosefeet so I took the arms off a down jacket I had cannibalized to get extra down for a sleeping bag and made booties from them.
A 2XL for $112.95. I'm a medium so for $112.95 I could get a new sleeping bag.
Why go to vapor barrier socks? Explain. Not for hiking in I hope. Think wet maceated(wrinkled skin) feet even if just using the VP socks in your down winter bag to help preserve your sleeping bag's down loft. Perhaps you could use Hydropel or a similiar product to avoid the maceration though. If you think the Goosefeet Down booties w/o the overboot(used as an outer protective covering if walking around camp to protect the inner taffeta down sock, I only have used the UL Goosefeet down socks in my sleeping bag, I have yet to carry the outer covering because I don't walk around camp in my down booties and I don't like the wt penalty hit) will lose loft on longer winter trips I have yet to experience that in the 3 yrs that I've owned and used them. On multi week(2 - 3 + wks) winter hikes while in Glacier NP, Bob Marshall Wilderness, Anaconda Pintler Wilderness Area, and in a large part of Montana on the CDT with consistent day time highs of only 25 - 30 * and much colder nights, in Zion NP at the higher elevations with temps near 0*, most recently while thruing the CT(finished Oct 19, some cold nights down into the low teens), and several other shorter period(10 days and less) winter treks I have yet to experience lose of loft in my Goosefeet Down Socks. They loft as well now as the day I bought them. I love Goosefeet Down Socks/booties for their wt. and feet specific warmth they provide! I experienced frost nipped feet and hands decades ago while out hunting so my extremities are particularly vulnerable to the cold. I generally don't have sweaty feet even in winter while layered up and in taller shoes. However, if I do have wet feet once getting into camp I thoroughly dry off my feet and the rest of my body BEFORE putting on my Goosefeet down booties and getting into my down sleeping bag. When I stop hiking, even in winter, I spend little or NO time fooling around in camp. I get into my sleeping bag/quilt as soon as possible. I consider a sleeping bag/quilt to be an integral and most important part of my warming protection especially in winter. I don't want to compromise the warmth or protection of that bag/quilt so I would definitely go with a VBL if I thought it would help with that but my current thinking is that VP socks are overkill FOR ME. You may be different then me, and I may be wrong about this, but unless you typically have really sweaty feet the protection to your winter down sleeping bag's loft would be minimal from moisture given off by your feet and I would think that's the principal reason why you would opt for VB socks on an extended winter trip.
BTW, as Leaftye alluded to, I'll hike even in winter under COLD CLEAR conditions into the night. I find the CLEAR winter night skies, bent over snow laden trees, sounds of the crunching snow and ice underfoot, and the sounds of my breathing, AND nothing else to be magical during a winter night time hike! Glorious! Hiking in winter across a frozen lake is also spectacular!
I also like using a Cocoon silk mummy sleeping bag liner w/ hood during winter not only for the extra warmth but to help protect my down sleeping bag's/quilt's loft. Yeah, I've use a GoLite 3 season 20 * down quilt on winter hikes in conjunction with a silk liner with night time temps as low as 6-8 *. If not used right you certainly can get drafts in a quilt but it also helps me vent moisture vapor given off from my body. I don't want to also lose the loft in my down clothing I wear while sleeping which is typically a MontBell UL 850 Down Inner Jacket or RAB 850 Down Vest. With temps consistently below 10 * at night on a longish winter trek I go to my Valandre sleeping bag.
I also do what Mountain Mike does in regards to my hands during winter hikes. MLD Event mitten shells, Smartwool or stretchy nylon liners and an insulating mid layer. What I go with on my hands depends on conditions and exactly what I'm doing. If I'm doing any winter climbing or peak bagging I go with something on my hands that provide greater abrasion resistance, protection, touch, and dexterity.
I've also recently changed to a Thermarest NeoAir Women's version mattress for winter hiking. It's 20" x 66" so more of my body is on a 3.9 R-Value mattress without having to go to an only for winter higher(and heavier) R-value Thermarest or equivalent pad. Under that I like a 1/4 - 3/8 Evazote pad from ProLite or MLD. However, sometimes I'll place the closed cell foam pad on top of the Neoair. With this sleep system, that works FOR ME, I get more versatility from my gear. I use some of these described pieces when not winter hiking. When I hit the lottery I'll think about purchasing a complete just-for-winter kit!
I have been testing VBL for even temps slightly above freezing. I have been very pleased with the feel of the setup, I was expecting wet and in reality it is more of a humid environment. So far I have found that i sleep significantly warmer with the only addition being a 5oz VPL suit. My main goal is to allow the use of my UL-20 quilt comfortably down to about zero. Why? I like my current setup and I'm too cheap to completely outfit myself with full winter temperature rated gear. May change my mind but I like the challenge.
Leafty, yes I will hike at night this time of year. I did a 25 hour hike this weekend and six hours of it was in the dark. While I may miss some of the scenery, night hiking is a whole different experience, something I have really enjoyed.
GG, I like Mountain Mike's idea of a cuben fiber non-breathable rainsuit doing double duty as a VBL. Who says you have to totally abandon UL principles in winter? BTW, GG are you pairing up the VBL suit with the UL 20* down(?)quilt in temps above freezing on longer duration hikes. If so, how has that worked for you? Seems like a sweat fest and overkill to me under those humid conditions you speak about but with the added sleeping warmth it provides as well as the protection to your down loft in your quilt it might work nicely in temps between 0-25* when it's less or not humid.
Snowleopard
11-13-2012, 20:08
I just used the hillsound trail crampons in the smokies and they broke after 20 miles of snow walking - either get the PRO version or the kathoola microspikes, i was very disappointed with them.
I'm sorry about that, evansprater. Hillsound has a good reputation for customer service. You might ask them if you could pay a bit extra and Hillsound Trail Crampon Pro. The Pro has a good reputation in New England. They might be overkill for the southern winter.
Kahtoola microspikes have a better reputation than the nonPro HS. For more serious icy conditions, Hillsound Trail Crampon Pro or the almost identical Camp Magix crampons that I have http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11755949
Rasty Assuming you're hiking in the southern appalachians in winter, not New England:
You need to work out layering and assume things will get wet as well as cold. So I'd say add more layers to what you have, not for extreme cold but so you're not overheating when it's above 10F. When it's warmer and snow is melting, you'll need to swap out wet layers for dry. Especially, you'll need extra gloves or mittens and socks for when they get wet. A thinner hat plus thicker hat or balaclava can be nice.
Vapor barrier socks: these are often recommended for longer colder weather winter trips. The idea is that they will keep your boot insulation dry. I haven't used them but I also haven't done multiday trips at below 0F.
If you're thinking of winter above tree line in New England or Adirondacks, you need face protection, either a neoprene face mask or tunnel hood.
I have used the vbl with the UL-20 at temps as high as about 35. Normally at the temp I would wear my ex light but I didn't with the vbl. I was experimenting with two things. One was the overall feeling and second, I want to see how I can use it at slightly higher temps up to about 40. Since I will now carry the rain suit I like the double duty potential of maximizing the use as a vbl. Most of my winter trips will be two night ears so long term moisture buildup is less of a problem.
When I made the cuben booties I actually made two pairs, one larger than the first. I will try to wear liner, cuben, insulation, cuben trail runner. I have tried bread bags with good success. This is an attempt to have the waterproof protection last more than a few miles which was the life I had with bread bags. I suspect my feet will overheat. On the snow of the pct I rarely had cold feet even though I was on snow, at freezing temps with wet feet. So that testing will have to wait until we get some snow and colder weather.
Dogwood, it sounds like we a pretty Similiar setup and hiking style.
I just used the hillsound trail crampons in the smokies and they broke after 20 miles of snow walking - either get the PRO version or the kathoola microspikes, i was very disappointed with them.
I'm sorry about that, evansprater. Hillsound has a good reputation for customer service. You might ask them if you could pay a bit extra and Hillsound Trail Crampon Pro. The Pro has a good reputation in New England. They might be overkill for the southern winter.
Kahtoola microspikes have a better reputation than the nonPro HS. For more serious icy conditions, Hillsound Trail Crampon Pro or the almost identical Camp Magix crampons that I have http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11755949
Rasty Assuming you're hiking in the southern appalachians in winter, not New England:
You need to work out layering and assume things will get wet as well as cold. So I'd say add more layers to what you have, not for extreme cold but so you're not overheating when it's above 10F. When it's warmer and snow is melting, you'll need to swap out wet layers for dry. Especially, you'll need extra gloves or mittens and socks for when they get wet. A thinner hat plus thicker hat or balaclava can be nice.
Vapor barrier socks: these are often recommended for longer colder weather winter trips. The idea is that they will keep your boot insulation dry. I haven't used them but I also haven't done multiday trips at below 0F.
If you're thinking of winter above tree line in New England or Adirondacks, you need face protection, either a neoprene face mask or tunnel hood.
All to supplement my normal three season gear. Normally would have synthetic clothing, shell jacket, shell pants, lightweight gloves, 3 pairs socks, thermal layer, wool hat. Southern Appalachian is correct. Probably going for a seven to eight day hike. Thinking maybe 8 to 14 miles each day with a bail out plan if the snow is too deep. Looking for a winter challenge. I haven't been snow camping in a long time.
I just can't imagine that a VBL is warranted to prevent lack of down loft on winter treks that last a wk or less especially if other measures are utilized to minimize vapor being trapped in the down and consequently losing loft(warmth) or if some of the newer treated down bags(Down Tek, DriDown, etc) are utilized in humid conditions or on prolonged COLD winter treks or if utilizing a regular down sleeping bag with a temp rating that is 10-15 * below the avg night time temps on the trek(Ex: 20* down quilt on a 2 - 10 day winter trek with avg night time sleeping temps in the 35 - 40* range). It would seem to me you have enough wiggle room on short winter hikes with the lower temp rated down quilt/bag to still stay warm enough even if SOME loft and consequently warmth was lost. I would think you would still be OK under such conditions especially considering the avg duration of your winter treks. Since the OP was asking about his winter kit he could also opt for a dedicated winter sleeping bag with inner and/or face fabrics that were treated with a DWR or some type of fabric/technology that resisted vapor transfer into the bag's/quilt's down matrix. Either way it seems you would be getting uncomfortably sweaty/wet sleeping in a VBL under such conditions to preserve the down loft which begs the question why don't you just go to a synthetic fiber filled bag/quilt or utilize a Dri Down/Dri Tek dedicated winter bag for extended humid wet weather or winter hikes?
BTW, to the OP, have you thought about what pants/bibs/rain pants etc you are going to use for winter hikes? Rain or even highly WR wind pants might work for short winter treks. Schoeller fabric pants or a pair of the newly released NeoShell pants(whew pricey) might work into the winter kit equation if you intend to do a lot of extended winter treks. I have a pair of the REI Schoeller fabric pants I bought on clearance for $80. Although not WP they are breathable, warm, highly water and abrasion resistant, and resist absorbing mud and dirt. Skiers, peak baggers, and climbers sometimes use these type of fabric pants. I wore them through Buckskin Gulch/Paria River in southern Utah four winters ago on a two day hike over Christmas through sections with ice and water up to 4 ft deep and sinking up to my knees in cold mud in below freezing temps. At the end of the trek the Schoeller fabric pants were dry and looked like I had just taken them out of my gear closet.
Not going to winter hike in deep(more than a foot) snow either? Don't want snowshoes?
I will be using the pair of Columbia rain pants that I have now. For parkas I have a Goretex Patagonia jacket and a Columbia Rain Jacket. I will take the Columbia jackets which I like better.
Why go to vapor barrier socks? Explain.
Because wet boots take a long time to dry out, even next to a fire.
What the heck do you know about wet boots Leaftye? You're from SD. It's supposed to never rain in southern CA or that's what we have been led to believe. LOL. I get your pt. But, how about going with a boot or shoe that's WP on cold wet winter hikes and leave the VBL socks out? OR just go with the plastic bread bags as has been suggested.?
HikerMom58
11-14-2012, 21:06
All to supplement my normal three season gear. Normally would have synthetic clothing, shell jacket, shell pants, lightweight gloves, 3 pairs socks, thermal layer, wool hat. Southern Appalachian is correct. Probably going for a seven to eight day hike. Thinking maybe 8 to 14 miles each day with a bail out plan if the snow is too deep. Looking for a winter challenge. I haven't been snow camping in a long time.
Oh boyyyy!! Looking for a winter snow challenge? What does the wife and daughters think of this plan? We don't want any more anxious moments waiting to hear about someone we care about getting stuck deep snow drifts... JK... :) Just be sure to pick a good weather week.... :)
All to supplement my normal three season gear. Normally would have synthetic clothing, shell jacket, shell pants, lightweight gloves, 3 pairs socks, thermal layer, wool hat. Southern Appalachian is correct. Probably going for a seven to eight day hike. Thinking maybe 8 to 14 miles each day with a bail out plan if the snow is too deep. Looking for a winter challenge. I haven't been snow camping in a long time.
Oh boyyyy!! Looking for a winter snow challenge? What does the wife and daughters think of this plan? We don't want any more anxious moments waiting to hear about someone we care about getting stuck deep snow drifts... JK... :) Just be sure to pick a good weather week.... :)
She only asks if my life insurance is paid up!
HikerMom58
11-14-2012, 22:41
She only asks if my life insurance is paid up!
Ok... she's worried .... ;)
But, how about going with a boot or shoe that's WP on cold wet winter hikes and leave the VBL socks out? OR just go with the plastic bread bags as has been suggested.?
Plastic bread bags are a vapor barrier. That's all I suggested: a vapor barrier. In this case, I was recommending it in addition to what I believe were waterproof boots. Last winter I became a big fan of how well a vapor barrier can drive out moisture, moisture that I believe came from sweat.
Mountain Mike
11-15-2012, 05:23
With liner socks & bread bags under insulating layer: I have never gotten trench foot/clammy feet worse than without. Your body reacts to condition it is in. When/if your core ever gets cold your body will shut down extremities first. Keeping dry on a winter trip is keeping alive. Carry several liner socks throw them in an open plastic bag in your sleeping bag to help them dry out. If you do other than plastic boots. they go inside the sleeping bag inside a garbage bag so you don't have to put on frozen boots in the am. You have to learn how to vent when active & conserve energy when not. One easy way is your hat. You can lose so much heat through your head. Take your hat off when hiking & when you stop for a break put it on before you are cold. Winter camping can be fun if you are prepared.
Mountain Mike
11-15-2012, 05:36
What the heck do you know about wet boots Leaftye? You're from SD. It's supposed to never rain in southern CA or that's what we have been led to believe. LOL. I get your pt. But, how about going with a boot or shoe that's WP on cold wet winter hikes and leave the VBL socks out? OR just go with the plastic bread bags as has been suggested.?
The song lies! I got hit with rain, snow, & sleet in SO Cal on PCT! That was April, May,even into June in the Mojave. Travel an hour east of SD & you can hit snow most months of the year in the mountains.
I'm thinking about these boots instead. Brand new design from Merrell. I think they are going on sale today.
http://www.rei.com/product/836523/merrell-norsehund-beta-waterproof-winter-boots-mens
Leafty and others,
how warm have you been able to take vbl booties (or bread bags) while hiking. And what was the insulation layer if any outside the vbl?
Mountain Mike
11-15-2012, 18:29
I don't like to use it above mid 20s. & Yes the insulating layer goes on the outside of the VB.
I must not have been too clear.....what was the insulation layer that you use with temps in mid 20s. Reason I'm asking is that I use lightweight running socks down to about freezing. Just wondering if folks used any further insulation or whether the liner sock and vbl was sufficient from a temperature perspective. Thanks
Yes, one of the all important principles of winter hiking is staying warm and dry. Being cold and wet on a winter hike is the recipe for a hypothermic situation.
This is the primary reason why I SOMETIMES employ a VBL - to maintain the warmth(loft) of my down bag on extended winter trips where the loft may be compromised by my body's water vapor given off in my breath and through my skin. A VBL used inside my sleeping bag helps me maintain my down's loft(warmth) and also provides some extra, albeit clammy, usually wet, warmth. At least that's why I ocassionally use a VBL. What I'm saying is that it's not normally my first choice to hike in VBL socks to attempt to keep my feet warm AND DRY. It can be counter productive to do that! A VBL is used to contain body moisture/vapor not magically make it go away. It's NON-breathable and NON-permeable! Well, what do you think happens if hiking in VBL socks for an extended period? - you hike in wet feet which is one of the things we were trying to avoid in the first place. What I'm saying is that we might consider other ways, possibly better ways, to keep our feet warm AND DRY on winter hikes, especially if the winter hike doesn't entail ice, snow, or rain or getting wet. Winter is the operative word here. Hiking conditions matter. Under such conditions it's a whole lot simpler, at least to me, to keep my feet WARM AND DRY in other ways such as employing warm WP boots and warm merinowool socks. KISS.
Now, on wet, snow involved, AND COLD winter hikes I can see more usefulness in separating my feet from cold, wet, or frozen winter boots by hiking in plastic bread bags(which actually can have some small holes) under an insulating merino wool sock that still provides a decent amount of warmth even if wet. But, even under such conditions the addition of VBL socks are basically doing what a wet pr of wool socks will do - provide greater warmth. That seems a simpler solution.
Also, have you ever attempted to sleep in a VBL under warmer(above freezing, 35-40* temps), wet, and/or humid conditions, as one poster is experimenting with, where you have a tendency to experience more moisture inside the VBL? In my experience it can easily become a sweatfest! Under such conditions I've awakened in the morning inside the VBL literally in a pool of water! It's NOT something I want to regularly experience in the early morning on an extended COLD winter hike. Now, if using a sleeping bag or quilt with an accurate temperature rating 15-20 degrees below the expected night time lows when the night time lows are projected to be 35-40 degrees see how that MIGHT exacberate the sweating? Under such conditions and using that kind of set-up, which I don't think I would employ, I would be carfeul to ventilate my bag/quilt/VBL as well as I could.
I'll interject this sound advice here: "You have to learn how to vent when active & conserve energy when not. One easy way is your hat. You can lose so much heat through your head. Take your hat off when hiking & when you stop for a break put it on before you are cold. Winter camping can be fun if you are prepared. - Mountain Mike
When ever I do employ a VBL I feel like I'm walking a fine line staying BOTH warm and dry. Again, pros and cons with all gear. And, all set-ups don't work for all people all the time.
I think on one of my next winter hikes I'm going to try just a VBL shirt and/or a slightly perforated THIN plastic garbage bag on my lower half and see what happens to the down - on longer winter treks too. I would like to hear from those who gain experiece using Dri Down or Dry Tek down bags on extended winter treks. The next latest greatest gear on the market - an UL VBL beanie! They call it the Ziploc Beanie! Thanks y'all. Mahalo.
So what is everyone else using for winter hiking boots?
I got to try outsome of the new winter gear this past weekend in mild 25 degree night
Enlightened Equipment Revelation X 0° 30% overstuffed quilt –Great company, shipped on time, could not figure whythe fabric is a second. At 25 degrees it was very warm while wearing onlyconvertible plants, lightweight poly top and a hat. The second night at 35degrees it was almost too warm.
Lawson Evasote 1/8” thick pad – Foldsup fairly small and provides just enough extra insulation
Merrell Norsehund Beta Mid Boots – Onlyhiked about 20 miles, no blisters, warm and waterproof.
Montbell Alpinelite Down Parka – Loveit
Preliminarythoughts on other equipment
Outdoor Research Highcamp Mittens – Realnice
Outdoor Research Crocodile Gaiters – Real nice
Should be shippingthis week
Goosefeet booties, pants and overboots
This has been a very helpful thread. Here are some updates from recent hikes.
1) cuben fiber does not work for VBL/waterproof socks over time. .8 cuben only lasted 14 miles before blowing a hole.
2) cuben worked GREAT for those 14 miles. I am finishing up two new pairs of pu coated nylon booties. I will go liner/VBL/insulation/wp with the wp and eliminated for temps above freezing. I had every conceivable weather conditions on a 6 day AT hike in NC before Christmas and the concept is sound, the execution needs improving.
3) my cuben rain suit worked great in above freezing temps with only light base layer. I also used the same system with down jacket and wind shirt with 18 degree temps, 40+ mph winds and now. I am finding as skurka did that the key is temperature moderation.
4) I just upgraded my glove system to liner/VBL/insulation/overmitt. Plan to drop layers as temps increase. Just made the overmitts and I'm using cleaning gloves as VBL and glove mittens as insulation layer.
5) I am switching to cap 2 from mid weight as my bottom base layer. Mid weight(old) was too heavy under rain suit. Plan to use cap 2/VBL(wp)/hiking pants for lower body.
Bottom line. I am finding the key to a good winter system s a very light base layer combined with insulation layer sandwich between two VBL/wp layers. Layers get added or subtracted as need dictates. System evolving, look forward to more crappy weather.
Any other learnings from folks?
I was only going to take a couple of bread bags as vapor barrier liners just in case. The overboots were for camp use only. I'm hiking in convertible pants and a lightweight poly shirt down to 35 degrees with a very light wool cap. Next on is a Nike golf microfleece pullover which is the warmest layer I have for the weight.
Bread bags will work for sleeping but I havent been able to get five miles out of them hiking. I'm also looking into latex swim socks as hiking wp/vpl
Bread bags will work for sleeping but I havent been able to get five miles out of them hiking. I'm also looking into latex swim socks as hiking wp/vpl
The boots I purchased would have to fail before I think I would even need them. Between the boots and gaiters I am less worried about cold and wet feet. My feet were not sweaty at 45 degrees. I don't usually have sweaty feet. I stood in a stream for about 10 minutes almost to the top of the boot and no water went through. I guess I got lucky on the production run of this boot. It's a brand new Merrell model so maybe they are paying attention to the first run.
Another Kevin
01-09-2013, 00:45
Bread bags will work for sleeping but I havent been able to get five miles out of them hiking. I'm also looking into latex swim socks as hiking wp/vpl
Have you tried using two on each foot? For me, wear one, it tears, wear two and they're both OK. Your mileage may vary.
Ironbelly
01-09-2013, 06:12
TJ Max stores in my area currently have the marmot zues jackets for $45, the 2012 model. Also a good budget option for down pants is the cabelas down long johns, I absolutely love mine.
Ironbelly
01-09-2013, 06:15
Sorry I meant $75