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View Full Version : Smokies in three days... Am I nuts?



SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 07:45
I'm thinking about doing the Smokies in three days, starting one morning from Fontanna dam shelter very early, and finishing on the third day at Davenport Gap. That is averaging a little over 23 miles a day, but this would be after coming back from Mississippi and not having a set of trail legs.

Why?

Well I voulenteered to do an article with BackpackingLight magazine about going Super Ultra Light. The idea is SUL allowing someone to go faster, longer, and further - which is not how I like to hike, but what the heck. Base pack weight is under 5 pounds, total pack weight is 12 pounds, and FSO weight is about 16.75 pounds.

Have I lost my mind, or is this going to be easier than I think?

Blue Jay
05-19-2005, 07:53
It could be fun pushing yourself like that. Getting up stiff in the morning will be the hard part. As long as you force yourself to get up as soon as it's light enough to pack, so you don't have to walk fast, I vote you'll make it.

C-Stepper
05-19-2005, 08:00
When I was in the Smokies first weekend of May, two guys (albeit, young 20 somethings!) passed me as I was huffing and puffing up Rocky Top. Word passed around the trail that night is that the two hiked Fontana to Newfound Gap in one day. FYI, they were wearing running shoes and camelbacks, and they hauled.

Yeah, it's doable for sure. I'd bring the Advil, though :jump


I'm thinking about doing the Smokies in three days, starting one morning from Fontanna dam shelter very early, and finishing on the third day at Davenport Gap. That is averaging a little over 23 miles a day, but this would be after coming back from Mississippi and not having a set of trail legs.

Why?

Well I voulenteered to do an article with BackpackingLight magazine about going Super Ultra Light. The idea is SUL allowing someone to go faster, longer, and further - which is not how I like to hike, but what the heck. Base pack weight is under 5 pounds, total pack weight is 12 pounds, and FSO weight is about 16.75 pounds.

Have I lost my mind, or is this going to be easier than I think?

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 08:02
LOL, my original idea was to try the Smokies in 2 days, but decided it was too far out from my style. BTW, I know of a couple of people that have done the 24 hour challenge on the Smokies and failed. They are younger and in better shape than me.

Lone Wolf
05-19-2005, 08:20
DO IT! The Smokys ain't that tough especially if you're going lite.

icemanat95
05-19-2005, 08:21
I personally do not see the point, but I suspect you will be able to do it. There are some significant ups and downs along the way, but with only 13 pounds on you, you should be able to manage them without undue stress. Make sure you drink plenty of water and make sure you give your legs a wake up call that they need to get ready for some real work, before you hit the trail.

The biggest single day I've ever done was about 28-29 miles in Virginia. I did that in about 7.5 hours with a butt-pack no lighter than your target weight and full-on hiking boots rather than runnng shoes. The day before I had done about 21 miles and the day before that I had done 24 or 25 with my full, far from ultralight pack (about 60 pounds). Of course I was only 26 at the time and had more than 500 miles of trail behind me, but it IS doable if you are in decent condition and do it smart. Keeping the weight down will enable you to hike longer and faster with less stress....but your margin for error is razor thin in the absence of meaningful back-up gear.

Good luck and have fun.

BTW, how about posting your gear list for this trip?

Dances with Mice
05-19-2005, 08:31
Well I voulenteered to do an article with BackpackingLight magazine about going Super Ultra Light. ...Have I lost my mind, ... All those years in the Army and you still haven't learned to not raise your hand?!

rgarling
05-19-2005, 08:38
Have I lost my mind, or is this going to be easier than I think?
For me, not counting the hours spent camping, the time required to hike this section (including breaks) was 44 hours with about a 24 pound pack (including food&water). If you do the hike in 3 days, that translates to being on the move for almost 15 hours per day. (The pace is comfortable and sustainable pace for someone in reasonable shape trying to build some trail legs.)

So, I predict some discomfort in your future. :eek:

Lugnut
05-19-2005, 08:59
All those years in the Army and you still haven't learned to not raise your hand?!

Truer words were never written. Hilarious. :D

The Solemates
05-19-2005, 09:07
no problem. go for it. ive done it in 3.5 days before not even trying to go fast.

MOWGLI
05-19-2005, 09:15
I did from Clingmans to Davenport Gap in 48 hours last summer. If I could do that carrying 35 pounds, you most certainly can go the distance in 3 days with <20 pounds. Good luck!

Now what I'd like to see someone try is the Benton Mackaye Trail route in 3 days! At 90 miles and a much more rugged experience, that would be a real challenge for all but the elite athletes among us.

Nean
05-19-2005, 09:16
I did that section in a little less than 3 days a couple of years ago. My pack was around 3x heavier than yours and I was a few years older than you young man :) ! The weather was nasty the first 48hrs and I was also a smoker back then :datz Did all but last 2o miles at night, jogged the last 9m of a 44 day to get to MM before the grill closed. Somebody told me later that my dog followed me. Yes, I think you can do it. PS: make sure you check out the dome.;)

chris
05-19-2005, 09:47
Shouldn't be too tough. When I was a lot softer in 2002, I went across the Smokys in 4 days. If I was going to do a Smokys traverse, I'd do it in 3 days. Don't wipe yourself out on day 1. Hit Derrick (which is like 20 miles in). On day 2, push to Peck's Corner (it will be like 28ish). On day 3, go to Davenport, with the mandatory stop at Mount Cammerer. Day 2 sounds long, but the terrain is pretty easy.

yogi clyde
05-19-2005, 09:56
I met an adventure racer last year, he was attempting a 28 hour N to S transverse.

When I got to Davenport gap, and tried to hitch to Mountain Mommas, guess who picked me up. He did it in 27 hours.

Rock, which direction are you going?
I've heard N to S (ok I know it is really NE to SW) is easier.

Good luck, and looking forward to your article.

chomp
05-19-2005, 10:04
No worries, you can do it. Plan for 3, but shoot for 2.5 - I bet you could finish up early on Day 3 with no problem if you get good weather.

rgarling
05-19-2005, 10:05
after reading all these testosterone infused posts, I've changed my mind. You can easily do it in 2 days. no problem.

Tha Wookie
05-19-2005, 10:32
Get on it! We're all behind you.


Good luck. I believe it is certainly within your ability.

TDale
05-19-2005, 11:04
Well, yeah! I mean, you sleep in trees and cook with a pepsi can. But the hike sounds like it's doable. Have fun!

:banana

kentucky99
05-19-2005, 11:11
do it 23 miles ain nothing but bring some tiger balm for ur muscles since you will be starting fresh again:dance ky

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 11:21
Well the plan is to go south to north, but I am open to the thought of going the other direction. The trip would most likely be late next month. I'll make an alternate plan to look at the possibility of going SOBO. For now the hike looks something like this:

Thursday, get off work and get my wife to shuttle me to the Fontanna Hilton and spend the night after a good carb load dinner there.

Friday, start around 0700 and hike 12 hours to get to Derrik Knob. 23 miles.

Saturday, hike from Derrik Knob to Icewater Springs. This should be my easiest day at 21 miles. I have seen a lot of this section already on more than one trip.

Sunday, hike from Icewater Spring to Davenport gap when my pack weight is lowest which should be 28.3 miles. For the most part it would be down hill and on daypack like weight.

Monday morning my wife would pick me up and take me back home.

As to the pack list...

A. Clothing
0.8 oz Wigwam CT Touring socks
9.3 oz REI Powerstretch shirt
10.1 oz total

B. Rain Gear
8.0 oz OWare USA Poncho/Tarp*
2.2 oz OWare USA Rain Chaps*
10.2 oz total

C. Kitchen
0.4 oz Plastic spoon
1.8 oz SnowPeak Ti bowl with foil lid
0.8 oz FireFly Stove with stand*
0.6 oz Scripto Lighter
0.6 oz fuel bottle
0.6 oz Windscreen
0.6 oz Bozeman Mountain Works Spinsack - med (food bag)*
1.7 oz Gatorade bottle
1.5 oz Platapus 3L bladder
0.8 oz Iodine tablet bottle
9.4 oz total

D. Misc.
2.6 oz First aid and repair kit
1.7 oz Leatherman Micra
0.3 oz Bozeman Mountain Works Spinsack - small*
4.6 oz total

E. Hygine.
1.3 oz Tothbrush and paste
1.0 oz alcohol based hand sanitizer
0.2 oz Lip Balm
2.5 oz total

F. Navigation/Light
0.3 oz LED Light
1.6 oz Mapdanna
1.9 oz total

G. Ruck/Sleeping system
5.1 oz Gossamar Gear G6 pack
1.9 oz Gossamar Gear pack liner
3.5 oz Gossmar Gear Nitelite Pad
0.5 oz Bozmean Mountain Works Spinsack - Med/Lite*
1.4 oz Gossamar Gear Polycro ground sheet
17.7 oz Hungry Howie Down Quilt
2.5 oz Bear bag rope/stake bag
0.6 oz 6 polycarbonate stakes
0.9 oz AirCore Pro Dyneema Cord Kit*
34.1 oz total

H. Consumables
78.0 oz food @ 26oz per day X 3 days
0.4 oz Toilet paper @ .13oz per day X 3 days
0.1 oz Iodine pills @ .03 oz per day X 3 days
2.5 oz alcohol fuel @ .82oz per day X 3 days (1 fluid ounce)
34.8 oz 1 liter of water
115.8 oz total (yes, that part is overly anal)

I. Clothing Worn/Items Carried
24.4 oz Nike running shoes
0.8 oz Wigwam CT touring socks
7.5 oz Dufold coolmax zip T-shirt, long
1.6 oz microfiber underwear
15.5 oz zip leg cargo pants
2.6 oz Nike running hat - cool mesh
2.6 oz ID card/ DL money, etc.
1.3 oz Timex Expidetion watch with electronic compass
19.4 oz Leki Ti poles with rubber tips
75.6 oz total

*Indicate items I don't yet have

Totals.........................................Oz. Pounds
(1) Total worn or carried while hiking..........75.7 - 4.73
(2) Total base weight in pack....................73.0 - 4.56
(3) Total weight of consumables..............115.8 - 7.24
(4) Full Skin Out base weight (1)+(2).......148.7 - 9.29
(5) Total initial pack weight (2)+(3)..........188.8 - 11.80
(6) Full Skin Out base weight (1)+(2)+(3).264.5 - 16.53

This packing list isn't set in stone yet, but I have about 90% of it gathered and set.

JoeHiker
05-19-2005, 11:37
Changing direction a little, I'd love to read your gearlist for a 5 lb base weight.

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 11:40
Changing direction a little, I'd love to read your gearlist for a 5 lb base weight.
Look up a couple of posts, I just added it.

bearbait2k4
05-19-2005, 12:13
Yes, you are nuts. The Smokies are beautiful.

It is certainly possible to do so, especially in the latter half of the park, but there are some really pretty spots in the Smokies, some that I wouldn't personally want to rush through.

Of course, if you've been through before, then it's not that big of a deal to catch all the views. If you're going ultra-light throughout the whole park, then it can be very possible. The first day's going to kick your ass, though.

Footslogger
05-19-2005, 12:23
The first day's going to kick your ass, though.=============================
Amen ...that hike into Mollies Ridge is a hummer !! There's no way I could ever do the Smokies in that time frame but hey ...if you're young and in good shape why not give it a try.

The Smokies were so rainy/foggy in 2003 during my thru that if I ever had it to do again I'd probably go the other way and slow down somewhat.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 12:28
I hear you all. My style of hiking usually has me quitting at about 15 miles give or take, and the highest I ever did was a 24 on ground much flatter than the Smokies. I also prefer hammocks, long lunches, warm clothes, and I'm not too keen on a poncho on those ridges with about 50% chance of rain and wind at any given time on those ridges. But I figure I can hack anything for a few days.

I guess UL gear and hiking to me is like knowing a form of Kung-Fu. Just becaue I know how to do it doesn't mean I want to use it all the time ;)

Anyway, great input so far. Thanks.

bearbait2k4
05-19-2005, 12:30
=============================
The Smokies were so rainy/foggy in 2003 during my thru that if I ever had it to do again I'd probably go the other way and slow down somewhat.

'Slogger
Yes, when I went through in '03, I couldn't see anything for a few days. It was the day before they started evacuating the lower portions of the park, and, well, we all know what happened that week.

In '04, I went through the park in perfect weather (minus the snow flurries, and 2 bad weather days we took in Gatlinburg), and I couldn't believe how gorgeous the first half of the park was, with all the flora and fauna in the park.

The Solemates
05-19-2005, 13:18
since we are swapping stories....

we had over 14 inches of on the ground and up to 3 foot snow drifts when we went thru the smokies on our thru and we still did it in 4 days when it got dark by 1630. 3 days is easy in good weather. the key is good weather.

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 13:34
Looking at the other direction I was thinking this plan for SOBO:

Thursday, hike up to Davenport Gap shelter and spend the night - 0.9 miles.

Friday, hike 20.0 miles plus 0.4 side trail to get to Pecks Corner Shelter.

Saturday, hike 22.9 to Silers Bald shelter. Also the extra 0.4 to get out from Pecks Corner.

Sunday, hike 23.6 to the campsite on the old Birch Springs Shelter site.

Monday walk out the 5 miles to meet my wife at the visitors center. I could probably be there by 0800.

An alternate is to walk out on Sunday and do a whole 28.6 to the Fontanna Hilton.

JoeHiker
05-19-2005, 13:39
Look up a couple of posts, I just added it.
I think we were editing our messages at the same time.

Tha Wookie
05-19-2005, 13:59
What was the shelter? the "spinsack"? Or are you sheltering?

Hey, you could really lose some weight if you could memorize your mapdana.
oh, also think about using fir needles as toilet paper.

Thanks using rubber tips!

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 14:04
What was the shelter? the "spinsack"? Or are you sheltering?

Hey, you could really lose some weight if you could memorize your mapdana.
oh, also think about using fir needles as toilet paper.

Thanks using rubber tips!
The OWare Poncho/Tarp is my shelter. I would prefer a jacket and a tarp seperate, but trying to keep below 5 pounds is sort of limiting to your choices.

The Mapdanna is also my towel, pot holder, and who knows what else, but memorizing it would be a hoot. Fir needles, I thought about pine cones ;)

I also thought about leaving the extra 0.5 ounce rubber tips at home to really save some weight, but it seemed silly compared to all the benifits I get from them.

Thanks Wook.:banana

rumbler
05-19-2005, 14:07
At what point do we stop calling it hiking and start calling it running?

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 14:14
At what point do we stop calling it hiking and start calling it running?
According to Army FM 21-20: When both feet are off the ground at the same time during forward motion.
:rolleyes:

neo
05-19-2005, 14:20
its very do able,i could do it,the AT in the smokies is very easy.24 mile a day would get it,i do 20 to 25 mile days all the time,go lite,if you wanna go fast.
:cool: neo

Tha Wookie
05-19-2005, 14:35
According to Army FM 21-20: When both feet are off the ground at the same time during forward motion.
:rolleyes:
Sorry if this is a slight tangent, but I'm curious to know what you think the difference is between walking and hiking.

Someone asked me that one time, and they didn't seem satisfied with my answer.

But you really nailed the running one. Possibly the best response ever on WB, in my opinion!

So, whaddya think?

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 14:44
Gee, I don't know if there is a difference between walking and hiking. I believe that there is a difference between hiking and backpacking.

So walking is an action, putting one foot in front of the other at a moderate pace somewhere between 100-120 paces per minute for the most part (USMC and Army definitions of quick time march). Hiking would simply be a long walk taken for recreation usually along a trail.

JoeHiker
05-19-2005, 14:48
G. Ruck/Sleeping system
5.1 oz Gossamar Gear G6 pack
G6? I've never heard of this one. I tried searching Whiteblaze for "G6" but it found nothing. It's not on their website that I can see. Is this some sort of prototype?



2.5 oz alcohol fuel @ .82oz per day X 3 days (1 fluid ounce)
(yes, that part is overly anal) Wow, I don't know if anal is the word but "accurate" sure comes to mind. I can't come close to measuring out alcohol that closely every time I use it. Then again, with all the stove tests you've done, no doubt you've got it down

JoeHiker
05-19-2005, 14:50
At what point do we stop calling it hiking and start calling it running?

According to Army FM 21-20: When both feet are off the ground at the same time during forward motion.
:rolleyes:
In world-class racewalking competitions, they have judges whose job it is to make sure that all competitors have at least one foot on the ground at all times.

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 15:07
G6? I've never heard of this one. I tried searching Whiteblaze for "G6" but it found nothing. It's not on their website that I can see. Is this some sort of prototype?

Wow, I don't know if anal is the word but "accurate" sure comes to mind. I can't come close to measuring out alcohol that closely every time I use it. Then again, with all the stove tests you've done, no doubt you've got it down
It isn't exactly a prototype, but it does have some mods from this G6: http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/g6_whisper_uberlight.html

Basically the same pack with some side mesh pockets added.

Pencil Pusher
05-19-2005, 15:51
Oh man, please tell me I didn't see a gear list with decimaled ounces... [clicking shoes three times, murmuring]
Hey so isn't the volunteer thing in the army, "I need three volunteers. You, you and you." (Sgt pointing to three 'volunteers'.)

Do it man. Put in as many miles as you can the first day and night, sleep a little, then do some more. Don't blow your wad, but don't settle for 23 if you're feeling good, imo. Though that one led light isn't going to do you beans for justice if hiking at night.

peter_pan
05-19-2005, 16:59
Rock,

You are going to sleep on the ground....for shame.....

I just redid my 3 season pack in a Gossimer G6 whisper...with a hammock rig under a nice 8x8 tarp and got the base to 7.7 lbs, add 2 lbs water and 3.5 lbs for three days food ( 1,1.5 and 1) and the full load for a three day crossing would be 13.2 lbs.....

Granted this doesn't break the 5 lb threshold for super ultra light but it breaks the 8 eight pound threshold for "super ultralight Hammocker"...some thing are non-negotable.

Wish I could join you...sounds like a fun challenge.

Pan

SGT Rock
05-19-2005, 18:00
If y'all could come up with a SUL hammock rig.... JRB could go into custom hammocks :D

I did give it some thought though - getting a light hammock and setting up in that. Something like a mesh hammock for 10 ounces, but 5 pounds is such a restrictive base weight that I am cutting corners now just to make it IMO. Eventually there is supposed to be another UL challenge where I think we will get a 7 pound base weight to play with, then I'll need an UL adventure racer or something.

Groucho
05-19-2005, 18:59
[QUOTE=Have I lost my mind, or is this going to be easier than I think?[/QUOTE]

Just playing around with the Maptech:

Fontana to Derrick-7700' of climb
Derrick to Ice Water- 4300'
Ice Water to Davenport 6700' all approximate numbers, but close

Davenport 300' higher than Fontana, thus a savings of ~1.6%

Ewker
05-20-2005, 00:55
I know I couldn't in the shape I am in. Since you are in good shape it shouldn't be that hard. Just try to do the following, keep your pack weight light as possible, eat as you hike, drink lots of water, avg 2 miles per hour for 12-15 hrs. You might even make it in 2 days if you hike into the evening or hike faster than 2 mph

HughD
05-20-2005, 01:29
All,

I just came from the Smokies. Evidently ultra marathoners have been running / hiking the Smokies as a training site for several years. I met two guys in training on Tuesday near Rocky Top. Both were South Bound; both were on pace to finish the New Found Gap to the Dam in less than 10 hours. Last year I met another team attempting to cross the Smokies in just one day.

Of course neither group had any 'support gear' (sleeping bags, stoves, etc) nor sufficient food (except gatorade and power bars) to sustain a multi-day hike over rough terrain at altitudes above 4,000 feet.

But this raises a question: are these guys classified as ulra-light hikers? They were carrying less in total than most of our packs weigh empty, and they were physically capable to cross the entire Smokies in a single day. But are they really ultra-light hikers? Or do they have to spend a night or two in the woods and carry all their support equipment to qualify as ultra-light hikers.

Just curious what everyone thinks.

Ps. They looked like they were having fun. Of course one person's fun can be another's pain.

MileMonster
05-20-2005, 08:46
You can do this hike, Sarge. Although I took 5 days to do it on my thru, I've done it twice in four days, finishing in the early afternoon on the fourth day both times. Shaving 3.5-3.75 down to 3 is really a question of working out the shelter stops. Plenty of daylight in the summer, so hiking 12 hours isn't a problem. I'd think that the longest day should p[robably be day 2, since on the ridge is mostly flat. Whomever had the mapping software, check the climb totals for a long day 2 (if you don;t mind).

I've always wanted to try it in 3, 2, or 1 day. When are you going to try this? Want/need a partner in grime?

Okay, too much lightning here at my house in Augusta. I gotta get the comp unplugged.

Mike
05-20-2005, 08:57
Sounds like they are at the very peak of the "pyramid of hiking style". Way up there beyond Ray. Just think about it, if you carry nothing other than a fig leaf and a platy, you too could do 70+ miles a day and stay in a hotel with no added energy expenditure.... (oh come on, you know you have a copy of Jardines PCT Handbook or Beyond Backpacking hidden somewhere... )

I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy. I cant stand running, but I'm sure ultra runners look at us hikers and shake their collective heads... "I just got done with 100 miles today, but those hikers will take a week to do that..."

Good luck on your Smokies trip Sgt. I am heading down that way tonight for a 5 day - 60 mi trip. 12 miles/day... seems kinda small, doesnt it.

SGT Rock
05-20-2005, 09:14
Naw, it sounds fun. Personally I would rather take a week to do the Smokies rather than three days, but anyway...

I hate running too True story: I once saw an interview with a marathon runner that ran 26 miles in something like 3 hours (I may have the time wrong) and the discussion got to the people that run marrathons but take something like 10 hours to finish. The runner said he hated running so much he couldn't imagine doing it for 10 hours, he said he would rather finish in 2 and get it all over with. An interesting way to look at it.

Rain Man
05-20-2005, 10:19
But this raises a question: are these guys classified as ulra-light hikers? ...

Last year or so, I met a SOBOer in GA, I think it was. He had a full UL pack (I remember the yellowed Platypus being in a side mesh pocket). He stopped for about 3 minutes to chat and allow me to take his pic.

When we said our "Goodbyes" and I had walked about 4 or 5 steps, I turned and looked back, and the guy was RUNNING down the trail. If I recall, he said he did 30-mile days. He didn't even seem winded to me. Name was "Flash."

I'd call him a hiker for sure, because he did indeed carry his own gear.

Rain:sunMan

.

Mags
05-20-2005, 10:38
I guess it all comes down to what you enjoy. I cant stand running, but I'm sure ultra runners look at us hikers and shake their collective heads... "I just got done with 100 miles today, but those hikers will take a week to do that..."



Naaah...because though an ultra "runner" (most of us walk as much as run in these races) will do 100 miles in 24-30 hrs, they are shot after that. And there are aid stations to help the runner along the way.

Hiking with gear for 25 miles a day consistently is harder int the long run (no pun intended!) than an ultra, at least IMO. I've only done one 50 miler ultra. About to do my second next month , and the Leadville 100 in August. Maybe I'll change what I say come August. :)

In all seriousness, it is apples and oranges. One is harder in the short term (ultra), one is harder in the long term (backpacking).

I like them both for different reasons; but admittedly prefer long multi-week or mult-month backpacks if I had the choice.

tlbj6142
05-20-2005, 10:53
Can't wait to get first hand reviews of the G6 and Fire-fly. You'll love the Guyline kit. The little cams rock. I wanted to see a few of these items first hand at TD, but alas could not.

My only complaints with the G6 is that it doesn't have side pockets. I'd rather have two large (tall) side silnylon side pockets (with missing corners for drain holes) and nothing across the front of the pack. Use your lashing "system" to make your own front "pouch". Otherwise, it sounds like the perfect solo section hike (2-7 days) pack (assuming water is available every 6-12 miles).

chris
05-20-2005, 18:23
After playing around a little bit with the G6 at ADZ, I concluded that there was no way I'd ever use it for distance hiking. I'd shred that thing in a matter of days. I've come to appreciate things on a pack, and the G6 just doesn't do it for me, especially when viewed over the long haul of a summer. I'm more than happy to haul a 1.5 lb pack with twin stays and a partial frame sheet. Then again, I've never tried the 5 lb thing, so I could be completely wrong.

I'd be interested to see long term reviews of the pack. While it isn't super expensive, if a bit of gear dies on me, in some remote place, I could be in a world of hurt.

SGT Rock
05-20-2005, 19:06
Yes, the long term durability of the G6 is something that concerns me. It is such a bizzar feeling piece of gear that I can't get my mind around the fact that it really is a backpack. Of course the first time I ever felt sil-nylon I had a similar impression but now I swear by the stuff - so I'm keeping an open mind about the pack material. Also, the G6 I'm using has two side mesh pocks in addition to the single back pocket. My pack is about 95% complete now, and I am about 5 ounces under the 5 pound base weight. I'm seriously considering contacting Hennessy and seeing if I can get an UL Adventure Racer to try and make my SUL packing list still a hammock list. The problem is I would probably have to trim somewhere around 3 ounces from my pack and I am cutting it closer than I normally would now.

icemanat95
05-20-2005, 19:23
With a few weeks to tune up, you should easily be able to do this.

chris
05-20-2005, 20:15
Why not try for a 2 day traverse? There is a ton of daylight now, and with good weather you can make it. Starting around 5 am from Fontana, you can hike until 9 pm. Assuming moderate breaks and a good dinner break, you can, without night hiking, put in around 13 hours of solid hiking. After averaging out the difficulty in climbing, you should be able to average around 2.5 miles per hour moving. This puts you around half-way. The next day, repeat, pushing at the end, because you have to visit Mount Cammerer.

If you try this, make sure to keep your pockets filled with food and eat regularly as you hike. Make sure to remember to take regular breaks. Nothing long. Maybe 20 mintues every 2 hours. Take an hour in the afternoon for dinner. Personally, I'd be hauling 3.5 pounds of food for this, but I have a fairly large frame to maintain.

Catsgoing
05-20-2005, 20:22
Why would you want to push your body like that? Don't you enjoy the sights and sounds and smell? Life is to short to push so hard. Everyone is in a rush to go some place and don't take the time to smell The Roses............ If your training than do it! If your out to hike just hike.......... My thoughts So Far I Think Us American's Still Are Allowed To Have Freedom Of Speech....... Good Luck :)

SGT Rock
05-20-2005, 20:23
Actually Chris I have thought about this as well. I may do that as a follow up with some slight gear changes.

MedicineMan
05-21-2005, 00:53
should be a good article.....but i didnt see a hammock on the list?

DLFrost
05-21-2005, 02:25
I'm seriously considering contacting Hennessy and seeing if I can get an UL Adventure Racer to try and make my SUL packing list still a hammock list. The problem is I would probably have to trim somewhere around 3 ounces from my pack and I am cutting it closer than I normally would now.
You might also consider making a hammock out of silk as some folks have already done. Just take enough bug netting to cover the upper-half where your face is. Hang it from your tarp line with heavyweight fishing line (maybe use it for ridgeline too). Perhaps eight ounces total depending on the silk chosen. The bitch is the strapping. You can't use spectra line to hang because it's not LNT--you wouildn't want to turn it in to Backpacker anyhow. But just enough polyester webbing to get around trees plus spectra cord will work.

http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/SilkHammock/
http://www.thaisilks.com/

Doug Frost

MedicineMan
05-21-2005, 04:04
for 2.6 ounces (i think you listed it as 2.6oz) and use the backpack as bearbag.
use an Arc Edge and save 4 more ounces
loose the leatherman and add a razorblade to the repair kit

SGT Rock
05-21-2005, 09:28
I've got a new gear list I'll post that has my base pack weight down to 4.56 pounds and my FSO weight at 15.40 pounds. I'm hoping to hear back from Tom Hennessy yes or no. I don't think there is a good chance though - last time I talked to Tom about the racer hammocks he wasn't interested in getting a bunch out there other than for racers because he didn't think they would last for regular use.

tlbj6142
05-21-2005, 10:03
Don't you enjoy the sights and sounds and smell?I don't believe Rock is blind, deaf or lacks olfactory senses.

Why is that no one complains when someone decides to sleep in 'till 10am, hike 5 miles in 4 hours and setup camp at 4pm?

Do you ever hear/read?

What an oaf? Get off your fat ass and hike already. Who wants to sit around camp all day? Hike more, see more.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. And they all can be fun to the right person. Especially if they hate cats.:D

Lilred
05-21-2005, 10:26
I've got a new gear list I'll post that has my base pack weight down to 4.56 pounds and my FSO weight at 15.40 pounds. I'm hoping to hear back from Tom Hennessy yes or no. I don't think there is a good chance though - last time I talked to Tom about the racer hammocks he wasn't interested in getting a bunch out there other than for racers because he didn't think they would last for regular use.

Hiya Rock,
It was great meeting you at Trail Days. I'll be in the Smokies the middle of June, maybe I'll see ya zip by me......
best of luck on the trip.

Lil'Red

Pencil Pusher
05-21-2005, 20:43
Ditto what MM said, lose the leatherman in lieu of a razor blade.

If following Chris's two-day traverse advice, ditch all hygiene, stakes, cookware, hiking poles, spinsacks, repair kit, iodine bottle, bear bag and rope. Count out however many iodine tablets and put them with like three aleve. Take the aleve preemptively, like as soon as your sore butt wakes up and then another one to carry you through to the end. Trade in the gatorade and 3L for two one-liters with hose so you can drink on the move and treat one while drinking the other. If prone to blisters, duct tape those areas at start. Ditching the cookware adds more weight, but it's less hassle and it only has to keep for a day and a half at most. My $.02

SGT Rock
05-21-2005, 21:09
Updated list. Some items changed based on feedback from others and some items have updated weights since some of the gear has arrived and I've verified weights:

A. Clothing
0.8 oz Wigwam CT Touring socks
9.3 oz REI Powerstretch shirt
10.1 oz total

B. Rain Gear
7.6 oz OWare USA Poncho/Tarp
2.7 oz OWare USA Rain Chaps
3.0 oz Rocky GoreTex Socks
13.3 oz total

C. Kitchen
0.2 oz Plastic MRE spoon
1.9 oz SnowPeak Ti bowl with foil lid
0.8 oz FireFly Stove with stand*
0.1 oz MRE Moisture proof matches
0.6 oz fuel bottle
0.4 oz Windscreen
0.6 oz Bozeman Mountain Works Spinsack - med (food bag)*
1.1 oz 1/2 liter bottle
1.5 oz Platypus 3L bladder
0.8 oz Iodine tablet bottle
8.0 oz total

D. Misc.
2.6 oz First aid and repair kit
0.7 oz Small swiss army knife
0.2 oz Zip lock bag
3.5 oz total

E. Hygiene.
0.1 oz 3 Oral B Brush-ups
1.0 oz alcohol based hand sanitizer
0.2 oz Lip Balm
0.6 oz 1/2 ounce bottle of DEET
1.9 oz total

F. Navigation/Light
0.4 oz LED Light
1.6 oz Mapdanna
2.0 oz total

G. Ruck/Sleeping system
5.1 oz Gossamer Gear G6 pack
1.9 oz Gossamer Gear pack liner
3.5 oz Gossamer Gear Nitelite Pad
0.5 oz Bozeman Mountain Works Spinsack - Med/Lite*
1.4 oz Gossamer Gear Polycro ground sheet
17.7 oz Hungry Howie Down Quilt
2.5 oz Bear bag rope/stake bag
0.6 oz 6 polycarbonate stakes
0.9 oz AirCore Pro Dyneema Cord Kit*
34.1 oz total

H. Consumables
78.0 oz food @ 26oz per day X 3 days
0.4 oz Toilet paper @ .13oz per day X 3 days
0.1 oz Iodine pills @ .03 oz per day X 3 days
2.5 oz alcohol fuel @ .82oz per day X 3 days (1 fluid ounce)
16.6 oz 1/2 liter of water
97.6 oz total (yes, that part is overly anal)

I. Clothing Worn/Items Carried
24.4 oz Nike running shoes
0.8 oz Wigwam CT touring socks
7.5 oz Dufold coolmax zip T-shirt, long
1.6 oz microfiber underwear
15.4 oz zip leg cargo pants
2.6 oz Nike running hat - cool mesh
2.6 oz ID card/ DL money, etc.
1.3 oz Timex Expedition watch with electronic compass
19.4 oz Leki Ti poles with rubber tips
75.6 oz total

*Indicate items I don't yet have

Totals.........................................Oz. Pounds
(1) Total worn or carried while hiking..........75.6 - 4.72
(2) Total base weight in pack....................73.0 - 4.56
(3) Total weight of consumables................97.6 - 6.10
(4) Full Skin Out base weight (1)+(2)........148.6 - 9.29
(5) Total initial pack weight (2)+(3)...........170.6 - 10.66
(6) Full Skin Out base weight (1)+(2)+(3)..246.2 - 15.39

I'm just missing four items to finish my pack, but with some temporary substitutions I am already under 5 pounds. I'm trying to get a HH Adventure Racer and get back up into the trees.

Pencil Pusher
05-21-2005, 23:33
Well now that the list is on the same page, in addition to the other stuff, ditch the goretex socks, chaps, groundsheet, pack liner, and trade in the cargo pants for polypro bottoms and/or light swim trunks (speedos optional). Bring light balaclava and gloves. Buy Cytomax and brown rice syrup. The syrup is the poor man's Gu and tastes rather bland so dream of pretty women as you choke it down. LSD could be in Cytomax for all I know, but that shlt works. Expensive though, which kinda contradicts the poor man's Gu. Maybe keep the goretex socks to use as mittens in place of light gloves. Headnet in place of deet cuz you'll be sweatin' like a pig.

Hey so when is this sufferfest?

MedicineMan
05-22-2005, 00:03
if at all possible maybe some of us could be at Newfound with IV's, sets,poles, pumps........just kidding, but maybe we could be there with some goodies...kinda like rootin for THE MAN....well post it as soon as you know.

SGT Rock
05-22-2005, 09:23
Geez, y'all make this sound like a marathon attempt. I'm just hiking :rolleyes:

grrickar
05-22-2005, 10:31
Me and a partner did it in 4 days relatively easy without being in the best shape (me that is, he was in better shape). We went SOBO on our trip. The last day was Derrick Knob to Fontana. We started out under headlamp and finished with them as well. With that said, we were hiking in late October. You should have more hours of daylight available. Starting out in Davenport Gap, my pack was probably 42lbs with food and water. That dropped as we hiked but never came close to the weight you plan to carry.

If going NOBO the hardest part IMO will be climbing out of Fontana, and if going SOBO it will be climbing out of the gap and up Mount Cammerer. Once on the ridge, the trail isn't so bad as far as elevation changes; it's the initial up and the eventual down that is hard on the muscles and knees.

Capt Chaos
05-22-2005, 11:14
Hey Rock, Sweeper (AT 2001) did the smokies a few years back in under 24 hours. I know you can do it.

SGT Rock
05-22-2005, 11:30
LOL, I ain't close to Sweeper in endurance. That guy is an animal.

tlbj6142
05-22-2005, 14:58
Geez, y'all make this sound like a marathon attempt. I'm just hiking :rolleyes:I was beginning to think you were going to run an ironman tirathlon or something. While most don't do the Smokies in 3 days, I'm sure there are plenty of thru-hikers than end up doing 75 miles in 3 days quite often once they are in shape.

tlbj6142
05-22-2005, 15:03
I'd be interested to see long term reviews of the pack. While it isn't super expensive, if a bit of gear dies on me, in some remote place, I could be in a world of hurt.I honestly don't think it is intended to be a thru-hiker's pack. But, then, everytime you hit the trail you do a thru-hike, so you obviously have a different perspective.:D

I've read that quite a few folks use it as a day, overnight or weekend pack. And, several use it as a "summit bag". They use it as their pack liner until they reach their base camp, and then switch to it for the rest of their day travels.

chris
05-22-2005, 17:51
I'd consider it as a summit pack, or a weekend pack, but definitely not for a month or more hike in a remote place.

Doing the Smokys in 3 days does not require an uberlight pack, just strength and endurance. I'm sure there are a lot of people capable of doing it with a midweight pack (I'm not tough enough). But, a 2 day hike...now that is something different altogether.

Personally, I'd just take my normal load, perhaps stripped of a few things like a book and journal, and with more food than normal.

One of the things that I regret not getting around to before I moved west was the Smokys marathon. I'm not sure I could do it, but it would be fun to try.

Bilko
05-22-2005, 18:19
A couple of years ago I walked into a guy that tried to ran across the Smokies in 24 hours. I met his wife who was waiting for him at a shelter, but he was slowed down by darkness, his wife had his light. His wife took off the next morning back to Cade's Cove and 10 minutes later the guy comes running by on his way to Fontana. I guess they finally met. He writes for some Outdoor magazine in Asheville, he was running to demonstrate how bad the air was. Three days sounds do able.

Pencil Pusher
05-22-2005, 20:23
Yo Chris, just go do Mount Olympus car-to-car in under 24 hours.

chris
05-23-2005, 10:07
Do I have to climb? Road to start-of-climb back to road would be cake.

Deerleg
05-23-2005, 12:22
Naw, it sounds fun. Personally I would rather take a week to do the Smokies rather than three days, but anyway...

I hate running too True story: I once saw an interview with a marathon runner that ran 26 miles in something like 3 hours (I may have the time wrong) and the discussion got to the people that run marrathons but take something like 10 hours to finish. The runner said he hated running so much he couldn't imagine doing it for 10 hours, he said he would rather finish in 2 and get it all over with. An interesting way to look at it.Great thread SGT Rock. Your gear lists are always very helpful. I have copied a couple of them over the last year or so and like you, have modified what I take to either go lighter or improve the overall experience of the hike. I did a marathon in 1981 in 2 hours and 50 minuets and I can’t compare it to the “marathon” hike I did in 2000 about 25+ a day for 4 days with a base weight of about 16 lbs. They both were hard and took a few days to recover from, but were very different physically. The marathon hike was a great learning experience, and I preferred 10+ hours of hiking to almost 3 hours of running:) ! The comfort zone is in the 15-18 hiking miles a day average now.
I hope to hike in the Smokies in July and look forward to your trip report.

Catsgoing
05-23-2005, 12:38
Why would you want to push your body like that? Don't you enjoy the sights and sounds and smell? Life is to short to push so hard. Everyone is in a rush to go some place and don't take the time to smell The Roses............ If your training than do it! If your out to hike just hike.......... My thoughts So Far I Think Us American's Still Are Allowed To Have Freedom Of Speech....... Good Luck :)
After reading your posts SGT ROCK! You can do it! You have done a lot of hiking in your life time.....

Go For The Gold If That Is What You Want!

I Rather Hike A Good Pace And Take In The Smallest To The Biggest On The Trail.....

Kudo's To You... If I could do it would I? Nope...........

JoeHiker
05-23-2005, 13:28
I hate running too True story: I once saw an interview with a marathon runner that ran 26 miles in something like 3 hours (I may have the time wrong) and the discussion got to the people that run marrathons but take something like 10 hours to finish. The runner said he hated running so much he couldn't imagine doing it for 10 hours, he said he would rather finish in 2 and get it all over with. An interesting way to look at it.
Much as I love running, I know that talking about it will never win you any converts. Still, one nice side benefit is that after you've seriously trained for and run a marathon (or a few), throwing down 20-30 mile days of walking on the trail is a snap!

SGT Rock
05-23-2005, 13:36
I probably associate running too much with work for it to ever be fun for me ;)

Mags
05-23-2005, 13:36
Much as I love running, I know that talking about it will never win you any converts. Still, one nice side benefit is that after you've seriously trained for and run a marathon (or a few), throwing down 20-30 mile days of walking on the trail is a snap!


:)

Maybe one day of hiking..but average 20-30 miles a day for an extended period of time is what makes it hard. Personally, I found the three marathons I've done easier than the three weeks I did on the Colorado Trail (~480 miles, 23 MPD average at elevation.).

Most people can walk 20-30 mile days. It is *repeating* 20-30 mile days consistently is that hard part.

Just my .05 worth YMMV. etc. etc. etc.



Rock: hope you give us a trip report!

Pencil Pusher
05-23-2005, 18:38
Do I have to climb? Road to start-of-climb back to road would be cake.
Well I guess that depends on what you call 'climbing'. If you mean the rock part, heck that is lickity split. If you mean not crossing the Blue Glacier... well that's not really climbing per se, just walking along with some gear and a rope. Car-summit-car, which shouldn't be hard if the trail is 'cake', eh?;)

shrimp
05-24-2005, 00:43
Hey SGT Rock, what types of food are you carrying? I was just a little curious, as I am going on a 3 day hike soon, and don't want to overpack. (I have on my first 2 short trips)

SGT Rock
05-24-2005, 07:39
Well normally I would carry more cook foods, but on this one:

Breakfast - 3 breakfast bars - 6 oz

Lunch - 2 oz jerky, 2.3 oz dried fruit - 4.3 oz

Snacks - 4 Candy bars - 8 oz

Dinner - 2.3 oz Zatarans Red Beans and rice with 2 oz sausage - 4.3

Emergency food - Raman packet - 3 oz

Condiments/ accessories - tea and haba-jala mix - .4 oz

Total Food weight per day = 26 ounces.

Normally there would be grits and coffee with breakfast, tortillas with beans or something for lunch, and pudding with dinner, but I am trying to keep it simple and light.

Jaybird
05-24-2005, 07:50
You've LOST yer mind!

MileMonster
05-24-2005, 08:14
Haba-jala mix? Do elaborate.

I Googled it and got this -

http://www.sedonatradingco.com/index.asp

Kind of cool spice capsules for trail cooking, but the haba-jala hot pepper spice capsule doesn't seem to be available yet. Your haba-jala must be something different.

SGT Rock
05-24-2005, 10:44
Haba-jala mix? Do elaborate.

I Googled it and got this -

http://www.sedonatradingco.com/index.asp

Kind of cool spice capsules for trail cooking, but the haba-jala hot pepper spice capsule doesn't seem to be available yet. Your haba-jala must be something different.
Nope, you found the right place. They sent me a packet of the stuff not in the capsules yet to try. It has heat and taste with a low pack weight.

chris
05-24-2005, 10:54
Well I guess that depends on what you call 'climbing'. If you mean the rock part, heck that is lickity split. If you mean not crossing the Blue Glacier... well that's not really climbing per se, just walking along with some gear and a rope. Car-summit-car, which shouldn't be hard if the trail is 'cake', eh?;)

I have no power for such things these days. I need to get out into the backcountry to recuperate my strength before trying something like a 3 day Wonderland trail hike.

mingo
05-24-2005, 16:40
i was hiking for most of a day with a thru-hiker this year who did what you're planning, sgt. rock. fontana to derrick to icewater and out. he looked ok. he wasn't babbling incoherently, but at one point i did find him quivering on the ground. i would think that the first day would be the hardest. first, you've got the climb out of fontana and then you've got all those steep ups and downs between spence and derrick. good luck to you, sir.

Pencil Pusher
05-24-2005, 18:28
I have no power for such things these days. I need to get out into the backcountry to recuperate my strength before trying something like a 3 day Wonderland trail hike.
Summit you weak bastard! The Wonderland in 24!:p

chris
05-24-2005, 20:26
Summit you weak bastard! The Wonderland in 24!:p

I think I would break some sort of record for stupidity if I tried it. My sloth is allpowerful these days.

MOWGLI
05-24-2005, 20:47
I think I would break some sort of record for stupidity if I tried it. My sloth is allpowerful these days.

I think they just plucked a couple of folks off a a glacier on Ranier. Unfortunately, they didn't make it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=787849

SGT Rock
05-24-2005, 20:54
Hypothermia is a muther.

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 20:58
better than being to Hot!

" I like it hot" Sgt. Rock

SGT Rock
05-24-2005, 20:59
Steve, quit digging up these quotes from me. It makes me either sound perverted, pompous, or an idiot :jump:

smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 21:03
can we add 'all of the above" to this survey :D

greetings from the land of the Midnight Sun...can't do any night hiking up this away for a few months...it is light enough outside now at midnight to read a book.

Pencil Pusher
05-24-2005, 21:35
The NPS gives out a sheet of paper with coordinates/bearings for going to/from Camp Muir because people get disoriented and wind up on the glacier below. Not to say that is what happened, but likely given that they were hikers and not climbers. A tragedy regardless.

Anyhow, back to Chris and Rock (and hey, I do love Chris Rock), you don't know what you can and can't do (to paraphrase Voight from "Runaway Train"). Challenge yourselves and think out of the box. Back when I did Olympus in a day, I dreamed of the Wonderland in 24.

chris
05-25-2005, 09:42
I think they just plucked a couple of folks off a a glacier on Ranier. Unfortunately, they didn't make it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=787849

Deaths in the mountains here are not uncommon. A tourist fell off a popular mountain side about 1/4 mile down a trail this winter. Several people training for Denali died in November on Rainier. Sometimes they are prepared and are just unlucky, sometimes otherwise. When I get back from the summer, I'm sure there have been another 5-10 deaths in the Cascades and Olympics.

TwoForty
06-19-2005, 16:08
Are you allowed to hitch from Newfound Gap to the top of Clingmans dome? ;)

Bolivershagnasty
06-19-2005, 17:13
Yea mt Ranier is not a joke..You better be aware,,my bud in Seatal still wont come with me?.but it would be incredibe...

Blue Sky II
06-19-2005, 20:00
Repeat after me: SOBO, SOBO, SOBO! But that long, long downhill into Fontana Dam will be felt in your lower legs and knees.

wacocelt
06-19-2005, 20:45
I'd do it with you if I was in the area still... I say it's cake, have fun! Hooah!

Ridge
06-19-2005, 22:55
....on your last night. The last time me and my husband planned on staying at this shelter was a big mistake. It's got to be the most popular shelter in the GSMNP. I hope you can find a spot, or have a backup plan. 72 hours to do the Smokys will be easier on beautiful days, if the bad stuff sets in, and it very well can, plan on a rough trip. Flash flooding, lightning, hail, and non-stop rain can be the order at any time. I'm assuming you are traveling during the spring/summer or fall. Winter time could be even tougher. hikerwife

Scrunchy
06-20-2005, 15:19
Have you done it yet? I wouldn't mind trying that one, but I think the third day rather than the first would be hell :D

SQUEAKY
07-20-2005, 18:55
[Yes you can do it, my son did it in a day, 22 hrs and 10 mins , and on the way ate 30 Snicker bars, he was knackered at the end, but many hikers said it could not be done, he did it, so you certainly can do it in a day. His name is Squeaky and you will find him attempting to do a Triple Crown this year.






QUOTE=SGT Rock]I'm thinking about doing the Smokies in three days, starting one morning from Fontanna dam shelter very early, and finishing on the third day at Davenport Gap. That is averaging a little over 23 miles a day, but this would be after coming back from Mississippi and not having a set of trail legs.

Why?

Well I voulenteered to do an article with BackpackingLight magazine about going Super Ultra Light. The idea is SUL allowing someone to go faster, longer, and further - which is not how I like to hike, but what the heck. Base pack weight is under 5 pounds, total pack weight is 12 pounds, and FSO weight is about 16.75 pounds.

Have I lost my mind, or is this going to be easier than I think?[/QUOTE]

Deerleg
07-20-2005, 19:36
I'm thinking about doing the Smokies in three days

I voulenteered to do an article with BackpackingLight magazine about going Super Ultra Light. The idea is SUL allowing someone to go faster, longer, and further - which is not how I like to hike, but what the heck. Base pack weight is under 5 pounds, total pack weight is 12 pounds, and FSO weight is about 16.75 pounds.
Well...have you had time to do the trip? How did it go?

SGT Rock
07-20-2005, 21:32
Negative, time has been my worst asset lately. I promise I'll let you know if you don't see it in a NPS daily report about stupid hiker tricks.

fiddlehead
07-20-2005, 21:37
i like the southbound idea better. I know it's a big climb either way at the beginning. But i did newfound to fontana in one day in the winter (finished by 5 pm) and i was tired but the last 7 miles or something was all an easy downhill to finish. (and a hot shower waiting at the end) (by the way i saw exactly no people on the trail other than Klingman's that day in Jan 2002, perfect weather too!)

Whistler
07-20-2005, 22:54
Another vote of confidence here. I did the GSMNP3DT back around Memorial Day. Fontana to Derrick Knob, DK to Icewater, then from Icewater out to Standing Bear Farm. It wasn't too bad, physically, and it was one of the more connected, enjoyable, and memorable hiking experiences I've had. I don't think I'm ready for sub-5, though. Maybe sub-7.

I'd definitely do it again. Need a tag-along?:jump
-Mark

SGT Rock
07-20-2005, 23:00
Another vote of confidence here. I did the GSMNP3DT back around Memorial Day. Fontana to Derrick Knob, DK to Icewater, then from Icewater out to Standing Bear Farm. It wasn't too bad, physically, and it was one of the more connected, enjoyable, and memorable hiking experiences I've had. I don't think I'm ready for sub-5, though. Maybe sub-7.

I'd definitely do it again. Need a tag-along?:jump
-Mark
Yes, but were talking sub-5 in a the Smokies in the summer. The weather ain't much worse than wet, and chances are you will get to use your shelter reservations, so you don't need much more than a poncho for rain gear and back-up for your shelter.

Whistler
07-21-2005, 01:29
Yes, but were talking sub-5 in a the Smokies in the summer. The weather ain't much worse than wet, and chances are you will get to use your shelter reservations, so you don't need much more than a poncho for rain gear and back-up for your shelter.I just hit the spreadsheet again. The conditions aren't really my main concern, it's the gear that I actually have on hand. Turns out sub-6 wouldn't be too much of a problem, but chopping those last 16oz would mean getting some different stuff. Namely, pack and sleeping bag. Have to break out the wallet and/ or the sewing machine.

Hmm... I wouldn't mind some new stuff...
-Mark

Big Dawg
07-21-2005, 08:27
Turns out sub-6 wouldn't be too much of a problem, but chopping those last 16oz would mean getting some different stuff.
-Mark
Hey guy's,, what does sub-6, (sub-5, sub-7) mean? I assume it has to do w/ weight (pack base weight, 6lbs, maybe?) Help me out,, :-? thanks guy's!

James

tlbj6142
07-21-2005, 09:43
Hey guy's,, what does sub-6, (sub-5, sub-7) mean? I assume it has to do w/ weight (pack base weight, 6lbs, maybe?) Help me out,, :-? thanks guy's!Most folks talk about their "base weight" which is everything in their pack except food, water and fuel. In this thread, sub-6 refers to a sub 6 pound base weight.

Other weights are also mentioned from time to time. Full Skin Out (FSO) includes the clothes/shoes/polls weight as well as base weight. And often you'll see the phrase "wet" (or "total") as well. Which means food, fuel and water weight are included.

Honestly, I think we should all switch to Full Skin Out Footwear Normalized. Which would mean we'd take all of our gear (except food, fuel, water) total up the weight. And multiply your shoe/sock weight by 6.2. Thus giving you a truer representation of how much work will be involved in carrying your gear.

It also prevents folks from "cheating" their pack weight, by saying that they are wearing their "hat", bandanna, long pants, etc. When, in truth, those items would be found in their pack most of the trip.

Ex:

Base Weight: 8#
FSO: 12# (shoes/socks weigh 2#)
Total pack weight for a 3-day trip: 15#
FSOFN: 8 + 10 + (2 * 6.2) == 30.4#
FSOFN (Wet): 30.4 + 7# == 37.4# for a 3-day trip

SGT Rock
07-21-2005, 10:16
Base pack weight is sub-5, pack weight is sub 11, FSO weight is sub 16. I think I am going to add another pound of water to my packing list, so that would raise the pack weight to sub 12 and the FSO to sub 17.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=106251#post106251 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=106251#post106251)

Nean
07-21-2005, 11:12
I knew about the food and water but fuel too eh? I've learned so much on WB, someday I might even be hip.

Cheating? on pack weight? How funny! Out west they call that method genius!:banana :jump

tlbj6142
07-21-2005, 12:04
Cheating? on pack weight? How funny! Out west they call that method genius!Yep. I see folks do it all the time. Its probably the easiest way to get below a 5# base weight. Put a few items in you pants pockets (first aid, misc small items like headlamp, whistle, etc.) or wear them on a lanyard.

When I 3-season hike I only bring a single pair of long pants (I don't even bring thermals). They weigh about 10oz. 99% of the time they are in my pack (I hike in spandex shorts). But that 10oz makes my base weight look almost a pound heavier than if I claim them as an item I'm wearing. Ditto for my 3oz hat, and 2oz bandanna.

silvereagle
08-13-2005, 23:33
The smokies can be as tough or as easy as you make it. Recently I completed the whole park in 2 days. Hiked from Fontana Dam to Newfound Gap, 40 miles, in 16 non stop hours. Then slept overnight in a friends SUV at Newfound Gap, got up, hit the trail, came out at Davenport Gap 32 miles and 12 hours later. It rained the last 12 miles, but the weather was perfect. I carried only one 32oz Swissgear bottle, pockets full of power bars, and my filtration system. Re-supplied at the SUV with a full dinner from KFC, and more power bars for the 2nd days trip. Quite easy trip and I would certainly go again if anyone wants to go with me. eleceye@aol.com :datz

Sly
08-14-2005, 00:14
The smokies can be as tough or as easy as you make it. Recently I completed the whole park in 2 days. Hiked from Fontana Dam to Newfound Gap, 40 miles, in 16 non stop hours. Then slept overnight in a friends SUV at Newfound Gap

That's cool, but I think the original idea was a unassisted, self-supported hike (backpacking) going ultralight, not dayhiking and sleeping in someones SUV.

silvereagle
08-14-2005, 22:46
Yeah you're right, I did get off topic there didn't I. Sorry 'bout that. But.........It's still certainly do-able even with a layered down backpack. I did it in 3 days in June with a full pack, but had two others with me that I had to make sure were OK. One actually stopped at Newfound Gap, couldn't go any further. He had way too much in his pack though. About 32 lbs. I stilll say go for it, Sgt Rock. Why not?

:datz

Alpha
08-24-2005, 17:01
you can do it, i haven't got to GSMNP yet but i might try the 24 hr. Smokies Challenge when i get there...get up early, and get er' done.

ALPHA (currently in Erwin, TN at Miss J's.)