View Full Version : Why afraid of speed and distance?
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 11:46
Why are people so afraid of other people's hiking speed and distance? Do folks pull next to people on a run or bike ride and tell them they are going too fast or too far? That they will never make it back to their house at that speed?
I've seen so many times in the last year about how people can't possibly do X, Y or Z with ZERO knowledge of who the person is or what they are capable of. i don't understand.
There are exceptional athletes out there everywhere. Go to a cycling club ride sometime. I do a weekly summer ride with a guy who is 60+ years old and we do 35-40mi at 19-19.5 mph average. (which in the grand scheme is not that fast but for recreational non racers it's good)
I just wish people would answer someone's question instead of butting in and telling them what they can and can't do.
100% agreement. I'm a 16 to 18 max mileage hiker. If I plan to hike 24 miles I will just have to adjust my plan. So what?
The only time it could be an issue is if you and I planned to hike together and I overstated my daily mileage to match your actual daily mileage.
you and i tend to see eye to eye on these things jake, but in the thread i'm assuming youre commenting on here the OP seemingly has never seen what the trail in northern new england looks like and is basing what he can do there in the fact that he can do 25 mile days on what just about everyone would agree is an extremely easier trail. i would never say no one can do 250 miles in 2 weeks in NH/ME, because plenty of people i am sure can and do, but this guy has an air of doesnt know what hes signing up for about him.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 12:02
Yea.. group trips can be adjusted pretty quick.. you can figure out your pace in the first few miles and if it's not adding up then you have to either pick it up or adjust the goals.
But i mean if someone says they want to do a hike in X days. it's like saying someone wants to run the mile in under 7min, 6min or 5 min whatever. certain people on here have an automatic response of "no, you can't do it" it could be Usain Bolt for all they know but.. No, can't do it.
Through rock climbing, cycling, hiking, work etc i've discovered there is ALWAYS someone better than you and you are probably better than someone else.
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 12:04
jake i have no problem with people who like to do heavy miles. there are days i feel like doing big miles, others when i dont feel like hiking far at all.its not a competition, i just dont feel the need to push myself every day. for someone whos never hiked the whites, most would agree to expect to keep your mileage projections a bit more conservative.you want to do 25 mile days, thats perfectly okay, if i want to do 13-18 mile days, that should be okay too. when i wished him luck on the 20 mile days, i didnt mean to imply it was impossible or even overly difficult for a "well conditioned athlete", but many find the whites a lot more difficult than the rest of the AT.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 12:08
Perhaps not. but I believe if you have the fitness to do over 20mi anywhere you can do similar in the Whites. Maybe he won't but I don't automatically say they can't. Maybe he can take an overnight sooner than that in the Pemi or something and see what it is like and adjust.
remember folks told me that Thru hikers *gasp* so special..... do Wildcat/carters in 3 days and then I did it in 1.5days. then folks told me that it takes a month to do LT and was under 3 weeks..
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 12:12
I did pinkham to gorham in2 days too.i agree cant is a word we should stay away from.
coach lou
11-16-2012, 12:16
Now i'm agreeing with Tdoczi....scarey. Jake I don't think anyone is afraid, just not in such a big hurry. I just did the math, 200 in 14 is 14+ per day very comfortable, even for us old guys, 250 is 17+, doable, of course, but every day? Most of us are not in that big a hurry. I personally don't like beat up feet and knees. Video was practically running down the street to get to my car, and then he ran into the back seat. I could hear his feet bumping the back of HBs seat as we rolled on towards Stratton.
brian039
11-16-2012, 12:30
Some people new to thru-hiking don't know the social aspect of the trail so I always figure it's worth mentioning that if they are pulling huge days then they would be missing out on that aspect. It's not telling them how to hike, just letting them know about something that they may not be aware of. If that's something that they're not interested in then that's where the conversation should stop because that's the only thing you're missing by hiking big miles.
HikerMom58
11-16-2012, 12:31
I also think there's an element of perceived "bragging" that I feel is a part of the mix whenever speed hiking and distance is brought up. And ,also, there's a feeling of "pressuring" involved, even if you aren't interested in going fast- you should really rethink that.
All the other points have already been expressed related to the 200 miles in NE thread. Opposing comments are made to achieve some sort of balance & reality check.... not to be misunderstood as a "wet blanket".
Great thread Jake!! :)
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 12:32
It doesn't matter what "your" (universal your) idea of pace is. Whatever the people asking advice what to do is what THEY want to do. 17+ every day sounds very reasonable to me without hurrying. 12-14hours of daylight in the summer. how can you say someone is in a hurry if that is just their pace? What someone's warm up could be another person's best 5k time.
Video kicked my butt my 2nd day out then i had a good night sleep and felt 100% better the next day. He named me Speedy. I went faster up hill.. he was better downhill.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 12:38
Some people new to thru-hiking don't know the social aspect of the trail so I always figure it's worth mentioning that if they are pulling huge days then they would be missing out on that aspect. It's not telling them how to hike, just letting them know about something that they may not be aware of. If that's something that they're not interested in then that's where the conversation should stop because that's the only thing you're missing by hiking big miles.
not every thread is about thru hiking. not everyone wants to be social either. I like hiking with people, but when i'm not I am ok too. I'd rather camp with people than hike with people if i had to make a choice. you can also get groups that can do big miles together.
Yeah i totally agree with you some people needs to learn how to mind their own buisness. RED-DOG
Creek Dancer
11-16-2012, 12:44
Yeah i totally agree with you some people needs to learn how to mind their own buisness. RED-DOG
Yup, too many self-professed experts on this board assuming way too much.
kayak karl
11-16-2012, 12:45
"Why afraid of speed and distance?"
you think people are afraid of you? that you are a threat to them?
more people on WB talk about doing speed and distance, then actually do it. there are negatives to doing high miles out of the gate. should we keep our mouths shut and just cheer them on anyway?
Perhaps not. but I believe if you have the fitness to do over 20mi anywhere you can do similar in the Whites. Maybe he won't but I don't automatically say they can't. Maybe he can take an overnight sooner than that in the Pemi or something and see what it is like and adjust.
remember folks told me that Thru hikers *gasp* so special..... do Wildcat/carters in 3 days and then I did it in 1.5days. then folks told me that it takes a month to do LT and was under 3 weeks..
i have the fitness to do 20 in plenty of places, SNP, PA, MA, NJ the very southern parts of VT and NH. i have little experience on the PCT, but the parts of the CDT ive hiked i have no problem saying i can do 25 miles on.
BUT
i can barely do 15 in the whites and after 2 days of it i'm done.
does that mean no one can do 20 in the whites? again, no, but the ability to do 20 somewhere else is meaningless.
Some people new to thru-hiking don't know the social aspect of the trail so I always figure it's worth mentioning that if they are pulling huge days then they would be missing out on that aspect. It's not telling them how to hike, just letting them know about something that they may not be aware of. If that's something that they're not interested in then that's where the conversation should stop because that's the only thing you're missing by hiking big miles.
theres always plenty of people going fast a fast hiker can hang out with.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 12:49
I also think there's an element of perceived "bragging" that I feel is a part of the mix whenever speed hiking and distance is brought up. And ,also, there's a feeling of "pressuring" involved, even if you aren't interested in going fast- you should really rethink that.:)
I rarely see people telling others to hike faster. I see all the time people telling others to slow down. I find it to be rude.
personally i'd rather see the mtn summit views than the dirt and roots in between. My pace is whatever my legs want to do. If i stick to the same method of being able to still hold a conversation i'm still going to be faster that others. and slower than others too. I'm not in a hurry, i'm just hiking. this weekend my friend beat me to the car from the summit by 15 minutes over 2.5mi.
fredmugs
11-16-2012, 12:51
I don't think they are afraid in as much as they have reached their fat, dumb, and happy zone and then project their self-imposed limitations on others. This is not confined to hiking. Why hike so many miles in a day? Why do you study so much? Why do you work so hard? Why are you going to grad school? You don't need to lose any weight (i.e. if you lose 25 pounds it's harder for me to blame everything but myself). You can't possibly enjoy your hike by going one mile farther a day than I do.
My favorite part is when they criticize what you do and end it with HYOH.
Some of us enjoy the physical challenge combined with the mental appreciation of the environment.
coach lou
11-16-2012, 12:53
I rarely see people telling others to hike faster. I see all the time people telling others to slow down. I find it to be rude.
personally i'd rather see the mtn summit views than the dirt and roots in between. My pace is whatever my legs want to do. If i stick to the same method of being able to still hold a conversation i'm still going to be faster that others. and slower than others too. I'm not in a hurry, i'm just hiking. this weekend my friend beat me to the car from the summit by 15 minutes over 2.5mi.
Jake, how did you get Usain to come up here to hike with you?
I rarely see people telling others to hike faster. I see all the time people telling others to slow down. I find it to be rude.
i agree, but theres also a difference between the "stop and smell the flowers" mentality of saying you should slow down because its more fun that way or some other sort of nonsense, and telling someone that what they are proposing may just be too hard for them.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 12:58
"Why afraid of speed and distance?"
you think people are afraid of you? that you are a threat to them?
more people on WB talk about doing speed and distance, then actually do it. there are negatives to doing high miles out of the gate. should we keep our mouths shut and just cheer them on anyway?
not afraid of me. Afraid of the prospect of someone doing higher miles. doing something they perhaps can't or don't want to do. pushing their idea of a hike on someone else.
giving advice to be able to do higher miles depends on the circumstances. if someone prepares beforehand than starting off at X-Y mpd is fine. If they decide to pick up a pack and just go then the advice would be different.
HermesUL
11-16-2012, 13:00
For the most part, I really would prefer that we give people the benefit of the doubt that they're doing the best they can to describe the terrain. It's not easy to make a comparison between the Whites and the PCT, especially since very few of us have experienced both (I haven't).
That being said, we should be wary of making assessments of others hiking fitness, and instead make comparisons that get the point across. For example, it's much better to say, "my best guess is that a 20 mile hike in the Whites is approximately equivalent to a 30 mile hike on the PCT", rather than "Even though you think you're tough in hiking 26 mile days, that's nothing compared to the Whites". The former is much more informative, less offensive, and eliminates the difficulty of assessing their fitness.
"I've done 20 mile days in the Whites--they're doable for someone who's in shape, but I personally wouldn't recommend them simply because you'll be missing some beautiful views." -- That's an example of a constructive piece of advice, which allows the reader to make up their own mind for what they want to do.
brian039
11-16-2012, 13:12
not every thread is about thru hiking. not everyone wants to be social either. I like hiking with people, but when i'm not I am ok too. I'd rather camp with people than hike with people if i had to make a choice. you can also get groups that can do big miles together.
Very true and I would take that into account if someone mentioned it. I would also suggest that maybe that person look into hiking a better hiking trail like the PCT, CDT, or Colorado Trail. To me, the biggest reason I would want to hike the AT again would be for the people. I think that is the best part of the trail and wouldn't enjoy hiking it if I wasn't in it to hang out with people. If I wanted to hike a trail for the pure enjoyment of hiking and views, the AT would be last on my list.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 13:15
"I've done 20 mile days in the Whites--they're doable for someone who's in shape, but I personally wouldn't recommend them simply because you'll be missing some beautiful views." -- That's an example of a constructive piece of advice, which allows the reader to make up their own mind for what they want to do.
Do people close their eyes when hiking faster? because I don't. I see the same things other people do, actually more if i'm going further each day. my personal style is to go fast when it is just trail so that I can enjoy the scenic parts more/longer.
Would you rather spend time looking at
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Socjake/media/Long%20Trail%202012/IMG_0433.jpg.html
or
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Socjake/media/Long%20Trail%202012/IMG_0485.jpg.html
Some people new to thru-hiking don't know the social aspect of the trail so I always figure it's worth mentioning that if they are pulling huge days then they would be missing out on that aspect. It's not telling them how to hike, just letting them know about something that they may not be aware of. If that's something that they're not interested in then that's where the conversation should stop because that's the only thing you're missing by hiking big miles.
not every thread is about thru hiking. not everyone wants to be social either. I like hiking with people, but when i'm not I am ok too. I'd rather camp with people than hike with people if i had to make a choice. you can also get groups that can do big miles together.
I'm in the less than social group usually. If I see others camping I will keep moving 90% of the time. For me hiking is a mostly solo thing. I will camp with my family members as they get pissed if I don't.
I don't mind a little speed. I don't mind a little distance.
It's when you put the three of us together we don't get along so well.
Would you rather spend time looking at
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Socjake/media/Long%20Trail%202012/IMG_0433.jpg.html
or
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Socjake/media/Long%20Trail%202012/IMG_0485.jpg.html
How about this instead? :P
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8293/7720982818_0e3eb801db.jpg
Being serious, the roots, green trees, lichen and rocks looks more beautiful to me than the second shot with rolling green hills. Why? Because we don't ge the beautiful northern New England woods out here. To me, it is different and stunning in its own way. Add in some cool, crisp New England fall weather, the smell of damp leaves and changing colors and it would be heaven!
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 14:10
Mags i've done one hike in Kings Canyon and the views are awesome out there too. I just don't have any scanned on my computer ;) I have better views of NH but no good pictures of the trails.. so i went with VT shots that were within a day of each other instead.. ah well
i do notice the little things too. but in general brown trail with rocks and roots is not what i'm after.
Who's afraid of either??? I do the annual Rachel Carson Appalachian trail challenge day hike in PA which is 36 miles with 9k ft elevation change. Typically in about 13 hrs. I carry very little on my back and enjoy the feeling at the end. I plan on carrying ALLOT more on my back in doing the approx 130 miles from Monson to Katahdin summit and back down and take 10 days. Could do it much faster but I don't want to. Do not want to resupply at all and want to camp longer than most along the way. Why....because I want to. I am in good enough shape to hike the R2R (south to north) in 10 hrs, day hike Mt. Whitney in 14, but want to do this one completely differently. I don't understand why anyone gives a hoot one way or the other about anyones speed on the trail or mountain. Its irrelevant. Same as criticizing ones pack weight. I feel Tipi Walter and Jake seem to get off on beating the pulpit about their styles because they feel the need to defend them. Its kinda humorous at times actually :)
HikerMom58
11-16-2012, 15:35
Who's afraid of either??? I do the annual Rachel Carson Appalachian trail challenge day hike in PA which is 36 miles with 9k ft elevation change. Typically in about 13 hrs. I carry very little on my back and enjoy the feeling at the end. I plan on carrying ALLOT more on my back in doing the approx 130 miles from Monson to Katahdin summit and back down and take 10 days. Could do it much faster but I don't want to. Do not want to resupply at all and want to camp longer than most along the way. Why....because I want to. I am in good enough shape to hike the R2R (south to north) in 10 hrs, day hike Mt. Whitney in 14, but want to do this one completely differently. I don't understand why anyone gives a hoot one way or the other about anyones speed on the trail or mountain. Its irrelevant. Same as criticizing ones pack weight. I feel Tipi Walter and Jake seem to get off on beating the pulpit about their styles because they feel the need to defend them. Its kinda humorous at times actually :)
I agree and it strikes me funny after a while as well. :)
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 15:42
i think there are some people who are afraid of hiking slower.maybe they figure if they stand still too long, lichens and mushrooms will grow on them. in any case, noy sure why such a personal aspect of hiking needs to be debated.to suggest the whites are surprisingly more difficult than many other trails is just good advice.if hes expecting to do 2os and ends up doing 15s, his logistics are going to change. id rather be prepared to adjust my plan if the original plan wasnt panning out.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 15:44
Who's afraid of either??? I do the annual Rachel Carson Appalachian trail challenge day hike in PA which is 36 miles with 9k ft elevation change. Typically in about 13 hrs. I carry very little on my back and enjoy the feeling at the end. I plan on carrying ALLOT more on my back in doing the approx 130 miles from Monson to Katahdin summit and back down and take 10 days. Could do it much faster but I don't want to. Do not want to resupply at all and want to camp longer than most along the way. Why....because I want to. I am in good enough shape to hike the R2R (south to north) in 10 hrs, day hike Mt. Whitney in 14, but want to do this one completely differently. I don't understand why anyone gives a hoot one way or the other about anyones speed on the trail or mountain. Its irrelevant. Same as criticizing ones pack weight. I feel Tipi Walter and Jake seem to get off on beating the pulpit about their styles because they feel the need to defend them. Its kinda humorous at times actually :)
Except it is generally slower hikers telling fast ones to slow down........ HYOH... my ass. think about it.. how many times has "what is the rush/hurry" said than "why so slow"
I don't believe i've told anyone to hike faster or further. I'll definitely suggest people lighten their packs, that will make their day more comfortable regardless of how far they go.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 15:47
i think there are some people who are afraid of hiking slower.maybe they figure if they stand still too long, lichens and mushrooms will grow on them. in any case, noy sure why such a personal aspect of hiking needs to be debated.to suggest the whites are surprisingly more difficult than many other trails is just good advice.if hes expecting to do 2os and ends up doing 15s, his logistics are going to change. id rather be prepared to adjust my plan if the original plan wasnt panning out.
to be fair he said he wanted to do 200-250 in 2 weeks.. which is 18 avg rather than 20. I think the suggestions in that range are quite doable. sure some days maybe 15 but he could do 24 another day and make up the difference. maybe you stop early one day in anticipation of a long day the next. or go hard one day so the next won't be so bad.
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 15:51
I'd also like to point out that the weather may alter ones plans dramatically. yep plan for high miles but know your bail out points , and be prepared to take a nero/zero or two.
i think there are some people who are afraid of hiking slower.maybe they figure if they stand still too long, lichens and mushrooms will grow on them. in any case, noy sure why such a personal aspect of hiking needs to be debated.to suggest the whites are surprisingly more difficult than many other trails is just good advice.if hes expecting to do 2os and ends up doing 15s, his logistics are going to change. id rather be prepared to adjust my plan if the original plan wasnt panning out.
That would apply to me. There is a natural hiking speed that suits everyone best, some will hike faster than others. Second, there is a huge range of physical capabilities, some need or want to take hourly breaks and others can go all day non stop. Third, some like to hang out. Folks like me can't do that. I have tried stopping in the early afternoon and completely setup camp. On multiple occasions I have packed backed up and walked hours longer. Why, because I enjoy it. Net, if all three of these apply to you then you will be doing high mile days and very likely enjoying it. Will you understand, no, but you don't have to.
Now to Jake,
i agree with the overall premise of your thread, folks that can't do sometime will declare it impossible. But hang around here a bit longer and you will likely see the next round of "I have never hiked longer than than 10 miles before but I did an excel spreadsheet and found that I can easily do 42 miles a day by just hiking 14 hours a day at 3mph.". See enough of those and the resulting either failure or abandonment and you will become skeptical when you see a thread like the New England thread.
Finally, most of the threads on can I do x number of miles or this distance in x number of days are silly. There simply isn't enough information to offer informed advice and many if not most of folks offering have failed to do what the questioner is asking. This is one reason that I link to my trail journal on questions of fast hiking a long trail. One can easily read through the preparations that I did and the commitment to the goal that I had to see if they want the same thing. Ultimately they have to make the call, not me.
daddytwosticks
11-16-2012, 16:36
Maybe we should have two separate Whiteblaze forums. One for slow hikers and one for fast hikers.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 16:44
I give examples of what i've done either the exact trail or similar and get flaming PM's from Driver8 telling me to shut up. (along with saying others would like me to do the same....)
A tipping point for me was earlier this week someone responded in the SPEED HIKING forum for a guy to slow down and not rush... if you can't even go to the subforum for fast hiking without getting badgered....
I know for certain there is a group of us on here that are very like minded and similar abilities.. you, Hermes, 10K, Tdcozi, others i'm forgetting.
Daddytwosticks, there doesn't need to be another forum, people that are not in that mindset just need to ignore and walk away. I don't post in hammock discussions because i've never slept in one or had the inclination to. If someone is not a fast hiker and the discussion is about hiking fast.. they probably don't need to be involved.
daddytwosticks
11-16-2012, 16:53
I give examples of what i've done either the exact trail or similar and get flaming PM's from Driver8 telling me to shut up. (along with saying others would like me to do the same....)
A tipping point for me was earlier this week someone responded in the SPEED HIKING forum for a guy to slow down and not rush... if you can't even go to the subforum for fast hiking without getting badgered....
I know for certain there is a group of us on here that are very like minded and similar abilities.. you, Hermes, 10K, Tdcozi, others i'm forgetting.
Daddytwosticks, there doesn't need to be another forum, people that are not in that mindset just need to ignore and walk away. I don't post in hammock discussions because i've never slept in one or had the inclination to. If someone is not a fast hiker and the discussion is about hiking fast.. they probably don't need to be involved. Was just trying to provide levity. Should have used the smiley. :)
HermesUL
11-16-2012, 16:54
Do people close their eyes when hiking faster? because I don't. I see the same things other people do, actually more if i'm going further each day. my personal style is to go fast when it is just trail so that I can enjoy the scenic parts more/longer.
Would you rather spend time looking at
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Socjake/media/Long%20Trail%202012/IMG_0433.jpg.html
or
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Socjake/media/Long%20Trail%202012/IMG_0485.jpg.html
Allow me to clarify. I'm a fast hiker. Last summer, I had a short weekend at the end of the summer, and so I hiked from Jefferson over the Presidentials to the end of the Franconia range, something like 13 four thousand footers in under three days. I loved it, but I felt rushed. I felt like I spent a long time hiking and not enough enjoying the views. Not to say that I would necessarily have done anything differently considering my time constraint, but it would have been nice to spend more time on the mountaintops. Heck, I spent most of my time on the summit of Garfield trying to make phone calls to arrange a ride home! It was far from ideal.
There are advantages to going fast--and I completely understand why it's not everyone's cup of tea. Hike your own hike, and don't try to "correct" people once they've already specified their preferred pace. I think we're all in agreement in that respect.
kayak karl
11-16-2012, 17:01
to be fair he said he wanted to do 200-250 in 2 weeks.. which is 18 avg rather than 20. I think the suggestions in that range are quite doable. sure some days maybe 15 but he could do 24 another day and make up the difference. maybe you stop early one day in anticipation of a long day the next. or go hard one day so the next won't be so bad.
it appears it's all about the numbers to you. even stopping early one day and go hard next? make up difference? i have never even thought of making up miles. i do think of making up money after a rain day at work.
when some plan too tight, i do suggest to loosen up miles per day. many will come back from a hike and feel they FAILED because they didn't do the miles they planned. a guess i am play devil's advicate at times.
as stated on this thread i guess i fall into the " have reached their fat, dumb, and happy zone" hiker type.
im sure this thread will change how people post on WB and what they think about the hi-mile club :D
HikerMom58
11-16-2012, 17:11
Except it is generally slower hikers telling fast ones to slow down........ HYOH... my ass. think about it.. how many times has "what is the rush/hurry" said than "why so slow"
I don't believe i've told anyone to hike faster or further. I'll definitely suggest people lighten their packs, that will make their day more comfortable regardless of how far they go.
I think a good dose of introspection is in order here. I will do it myself,...I truly admire hikers who can hike fast and far distances. I sometimes wish that I could hike big miles sometimes but I realize that I cannot. It doesn't bother me enough for it to ruin my hike at all!! I'm fine with it!!
I'll be the first to pat someone on the back for hiking fast and tell them how much I admire them. So, as a slower hiker, you won't hear me telling fast ones to slow down. But, if a fast hiker cocks an attitude about doing their fast, big miles, I will be the one to :rolleyes:- behind their back. It's a HUGE turn off.
Advising others to plan on a slower pace or questioning ones ability to hike so many miles, seems to hit a nerve with some people. (?)
If someone was encouraging me to hike faster or do bigger miles it wouldn't bother me at all. I might give it a try.. It's not a problem, as long as they didn't make me feel inferior to them for not hiking, "just like they do".
HYOH is great but doesn't work well if people come across as thinking their way of hiking is superior to others. This is true for the slower hiker & the faster hiker. Do you think the slower hikers, more often, has a bad attitude toward others? That's what you seem to be trying to say.... It may or may not be true... We should take a poll!! :)
surfnturk
11-16-2012, 17:15
Except it is generally slower hikers telling fast ones to slow down........ HYOH... my ass. think about it.. how many times has "what is the rush/hurry" said than "why so slow"
I don't believe i've told anyone to hike faster or further. I'll definitely suggest people lighten their packs, that will make their day more comfortable regardless of how far they go.
why do you care if they lighten their packs? dont you think they know enough what they will enjoy or not?They cant tell you to slow down but its ok for you to tell them to lighten their load?
What about this hike your own hike crap?
Apparently it's stated often but many here dont believe it.
Why are you afraid of carrying a heavier load? you may think thats stupid where someone might think an obscession with distance and speed is stupid.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 17:15
No? never came up short on food or miles one day and had to push it to get to the end or a resupply point? Never had it start to get dark and had to up the pace to get somewhere?
It isn't all about numbers. The person posted a time limit and a mileage he wanted to do. when time and distance are a factor then you need to think about the logistics of that.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 17:23
why do you care if they lighten their packs? dont you think they know enough what they will enjoy or not?They cant tell you to slow down but its ok for you to tell them to lighten their load?
What about this hike your own hike crap?
Apparently it's stated often but many here dont believe it.
Why are you afraid of carrying a heavier load? you may think thats stupid where someone might think an obscession with distance and speed is stupid.
People post their gear lists to be critiqued. many times there are things they can change that will lighten things up. I could care less if they do, but they ask. not many post asking if they are hiking too fast or not.. but there are PLENTY that tell you to slow down and smell the flowers.
I've carried a heavier pack, my hips and shoulders were bruised many times. I am not afraid, i just do not like pain i can prevent.
I never say HYOH... i think the whole Meme is ridiculous and annoying.
once again, i question my participation on this forum.
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 17:25
where does fear enter into any of this. it sounds pretty condescending.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 17:28
I dunno.. why is there such a strong objection to hiking quickly or going further than X/day
Is it crazy thinking that a thru hike can be completed with no zeros? Is it crazy thinking that I should be able to maintain 20 miles a day from the start if I'm in great shape? I maintained 20+ a day on a long train thru hike with out issues, besides time and Length of trail I don't see why the AT should be different. I'm not saying I'm pushing for a world record but how many people truly can get 20+ miles a day and still finish a thru hike. And for the record speed is not the main purpose for my thru hike attempt, I just hate spending all day in camp.
to which was responded
IMO--the AT experience is a lot more than just walking--I have done 1,100 miles and took some time to enjoy trail towns, get rested, and smell the flowers....
IN THE SPEED HIKING FORUM &*^(*&^*(& ... the hell?
HermesUL
11-16-2012, 17:33
I've never heard anyone argue that they prefer a heavy pack because they like the feeling of the weight on their back. The weight issue is very different in that it has a variety of sources--some people carry more stuff, and some people carry more durable stuff as well. However, if they are carrying a four pound summer sleeping bag and saying they don't understand how anyone can go fifteen miles in a day, I'll speak up. My goal on this forum is to learn from others and help people out, not to push any particular agenda. That ought to be the same for everyone, and I think it is.
We all ought to tread carefully when providing advice and trip recommendations to others--the only 'wrong' way to hike is to force yourself into a something you don't enjoy and never go outside again. I'm far from agreeing with everything that Andrew Skurka does, but we could all take a lesson from the manner in which he qualifies his advice as advice only intended for a certain group of people; those who are interested in making responsible tradeoffs to lighten their pack and increase their distance. You'll never catch him saying that his way is particularly better than anyone else's, except for those who don't enjoy their trip.
One of my first posts on this forum explains why I hike the way I do:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?88919-What-s-the-hurry-thru-guys-!&p=1354064&highlight=#post1354064
Creek Dancer
11-16-2012, 17:37
Why isn't this in the "Speed Hiking" forum? And why all the drama?
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 17:43
It is not even about speed, distance or whatever. It is how people respond to the proposition of someone hiking faster or longer People constantly telling others they are doing it wrong because that is not how they do it.
drama because people like to criticize what they don't understand
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 17:43
I dunno.. why is there such a strong objection to hiking quickly or going further than X/day
to which was responded
IN THE SPEED HIKING FORUM &*^(*&^*(& ... the hell?
well that much i can agree with, and in my own original post maybe i should have clarified my "good luck" with an explanation that many have underestimated both the difficulty of the whites as well as weather conditions, given hes used to climbing 10k peaks, and mt wash is "only" 6200 ft. an afternoon thunderstorm with 60mph winds is something to be wary of.i think the route i suggested is not just doable, but allows for plenty of options, and as someone else noted, its easy to get home from gorham. maybe not so easy from stratton, rangely or grafton notch.
Maybe we should have two separate Whiteblaze forums. One for slow hikers and one for fast hikers.
I'm just a hiker... :)
Look at the trip reports - mileage and gear used is only mentioned at the end (if at all).
Why isn't this in the "Speed Hiking" forum? And why all the drama?
It is now in there.
Why all the drama? Cause it is a Friday, people have nothing better to do and people like to kvetch.
HikerMom58
11-16-2012, 18:01
Why isn't this in the "Speed Hiking" forum? And why all the drama?
Creek Dancer... it's all about tolerance.... there is none! I thought it was a great thread for people to share their thoughts but there's no tolerance for anyone's opinion so we have drama instead of polite conversation.
Jake- I could go back and look but I don't think anyone thought he was "WRONG" but was just offering up thoughts, feelings and suggestions about the proposed plan. If they did anything more than that then they were WRONG.
MuddyWaters
11-16-2012, 18:02
People who are capable of sustained high mileage, rarely go fishing for answers to "can I do this .. " distance/time questions.
Or boast about it either.
WingedMonkey
11-16-2012, 18:05
IN THE SPEED HIKING FORUM &*^(*&^*(& ... the hell?
It was in the so called speed hiking forum..BUT...he was asking about a thru hike.
It's like bitching that all those that have never done a thru-hike should not give him advise either.
So no one should have given their opinion unless they have done a fast (speed) thru hike.
That should keep the thread short.
:sun
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 18:13
It is now in there.
Why all the drama? Cause it is a Friday, people have nothing better to do and people like to kvetch.
Back to the regularly scheduled "what pack should i get.. 75L or 90L?" i'm not sure if this area rug will fit.
Back to the regularly scheduled "what pack should i get.. 75L or 90L?" i'm not sure if this area rug will fit.
http://images.styleceo.com/the-big-lebowski-that-rug-tied-the-room-together-blue-graphic-tshirt-34584316
surfnturk
11-16-2012, 18:33
People post their gear lists to be critiqued. many times there are things they can change that will lighten things up. I could care less if they do, but they ask. not many post asking if they are hiking too fast or not.. but there are PLENTY that tell you to slow down and smell the flowers.
I've carried a heavier pack, my hips and shoulders were bruised many times. I am not afraid, i just do not like pain i can prevent.
I never say HYOH... i think the whole Meme is ridiculous and annoying.
once again, i question my participation on this forum.
Trust me, i question my participation on this forum the few times I have participated..
Slo-go'en
11-16-2012, 18:33
I didn't read all 57 posts so excuse me if this has already been said;
Few hikers can maintain a speed faster then about 3 mph and typically its more like 2.5. So, how far you go is really a question of how much time you spend hiking in a day. Someone who hikes "dawn to dusk" will go farther then someone who hikes 10 to 4.
Pack weight factors into it since a lighter pack doesn't tire you out as fast therefore requiring less rest breaks and hiking for more hours than a heavier pack might.
Optimal Speed = 3.17 km/hr / ( 1 + 10 x percentage grade )
Optimal Distance = Optimal Speed x 10 hours x Optimal Weight / Actual Weight
Optimal Weight = Ideal Body Weight x 1.1
If you aren't within +- 2% of any of these parameters, you might just have to HYOH
coach lou
11-16-2012, 18:35
That's it, I'm done............I don't go in Speed hiking, ultra lite, sleep with dogs, should I carry a howitzer, or barefoot hiking forums.....back to the Cafe.............HB, where did you put Pepe?
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 18:52
This wasn't supposed to go in Speed hiking because it was how other people responded to people hiking faster.. not really a point telling folks in the speed hiking forum why it is rude to tell people to slow down since they are not likely to do so. but oh well..
mags you can lock this if you want.. no one cares.
HikerMom58
11-16-2012, 19:00
Jake .... If you go back and look at the 200 miles in NE thread... you will see that you were the first one (post #7) to be rude. No one else was calling the OP a dumb arse for thinking he could hike that many miles. You called the others pansies.... and there is a lot of bragging going on in that thread....
We care.
[QUOTE=Mags;1362722]I'm just a hiker... :)
Yea, right.
Not sure what description would fit better though.
Outdoors interacting afficionado perhaps?
But certain not just a hiker!
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 19:35
Hanover to Gorham which is 144mi vs 200-250
"As for distance, you are not going to average 20 miles per day"
driver babbled about trails not related to while telling us how fast he does bear mtn... not really relevant but he likes to think he has something to say. then attacks me as usual for no good reason other than he stepped in a thread he didn't belong.
but whatever i'm sure that being told you're idea is **** and taking 100mi off your request is totally nice in some cultures.
This wasn't supposed to go in Speed hiking because it was how other people responded to people hiking faster.. not really a point telling folks in the speed hiking forum why it is rude to tell people to slow down since they are not likely to do so. but oh well..
mags you can lock this if you want.. no one cares.
Not sure no one cares, but I have certainly stopped carrying about an angry persons rant about hiking pace. I've done both depending on my goals and desires. I have carried 30L packs and 65L packs. Based on the fact that you weigh a stated buck twenty five, I can understand why you would have problems with it. I have no problems achieving my goals with a heavier pack and enjoy having access to items you wouldn't dream of putting in yours. Regardless of their "necessity". So far I haven't had issues carrying 40lbs 20 mi multiple days without discomfort, so why should I give up stuff that I like but is not "necessary"???
Nobody fears fast hikers or high mileage guys, why would they? However we've seen enough outlandish claims to develop a healthy skepticism of those who would brag before doing. Do the hike, then tell us how cool you are. Who knows we might agree.
I give examples of what i've done either the exact trail or similar and get flaming PM's from Driver8 telling me to shut up. (along with saying others would like me to do the same....)
A tipping point for me was earlier this week someone responded in the SPEED HIKING forum for a guy to slow down and not rush... if you can't even go to the subforum for fast hiking without getting badgered....
I know for certain there is a group of us on here that are very like minded and similar abilities.. you, Hermes, 10K, Tdcozi, others i'm forgetting.
Daddytwosticks, there doesn't need to be another forum, people that are not in that mindset just need to ignore and walk away. I don't post in hammock discussions because i've never slept in one or had the inclination to. If someone is not a fast hiker and the discussion is about hiking fast.. they probably don't need to be involved.
"If someone is not a fast hiker and the discussion is about hiking fast.. they probably don't need to be involved."
Then why do you comment when someone has a Thru-Hike question??? Take ur own advice... When "you" are section hiking the AT, I get it, you can't/don't have the time/money to Thru Hike... You want to do as much as you can... That's not everyone's goal... Did you really say you and 10K are "like minded"??? BTW, I see you are posting again on BPL now that its free for you again :rolleyes:...
I give examples of what i've done either the exact trail or similar and get flaming PM's from Driver8 telling me to shut up. (along with saying others would like me to do the same....)
Jake, don't be a jerk. YOU PM'd me first with an unpleasant message. I responded as I saw fit. Now you decide to take it public. Is that not an abuse of TOS? I think it is. Since you outed the private conversation you started and I told you I didn't want to continue going back and forth with you in PM after saying my peace, I will be happy to share what I wrote to you, in substance. Here goes, don't say you didn't ask for it:
I am not afraid of speed OR distance. I personally am thrilled that, after a lot of hard work, I travel twice as fast now as when I took up hiking as a major hobby summer two years ago. I hope to years from now I travel similarly faster and am lighter of weight and healthier yet.
My problem with you is not that you hike fast. It's that you appear to have this chip on your shoulder about how fast and how far you hike and how much faster and further than others, and you can't seem to stop yourself going on about it like it makes you a superior person. I pointed out to you that while I respect that you are fleet of foot and skilled as a rock climber, things which in MOST members of this board I would enjoy learning from, I find it repulsive that you, unlike so many very smart and very skilled hikers and climbers here and at Views from the Top, that you, almost alone, Jake - almost but not quite - have this need to lord your speed over others. "I'm way faster than you. Hell, I did Wildcat and Carter in a day, it was a snap." The truth is, there are plenty of people here and elsewhere, for what it's worth, who are plenty faster than you, as I also pointed out to you, or plenty more interesting, people such as Hugh and Trish Herr, Chris Dailey, DMOutdoors, much less a Honnold or a Stoeck. And none of those people feels the need to come here and pop off about how awesome they are, because they have class.
So yes, I did encourage you to put a sock in it, to stop popping off about how you're better than some others because you hike faster. I also told you not to PM me anymore in my FIRST reply to you. You violated that and replied, but I said once was fine, but no more. So far, you have at least honored that, but now you show the lack of discretion and respect for privacy, without my permission, to take our private conversation public. That's too bad, but I guess it's of a piece with your well-established pattern here. All hail and bow before the mighty Jake, he who can hike 25 whole miles in a day. Wow, ain't he awesome? Jen Pharr Davis surely is shaking in her shoes.
And yes, this is a mean post. And a waste of my time. And it upsets the comity of the community. And I regret all that. But you, sir, are the one who PM'd me first, and you are the one who took it public in this thread. Grow up and learn some manners. And for heaven's sake, spare us going on about how awesomely fast you are. I get the idea that if you passed me on trail, I might just turn and hike in the opposite direction just to make sure not to run back into you, lest I die of boredom hearing you prattle about how fast you can cover ground. There's so much more to like than miles per hour. Figure out something more interesting to say about yourself, if you can.
Jake, don't be a jerk. YOU PM'd me first with an unpleasant message. I responded as I saw fit. Now you decide to take it public. Is that not an abuse of TOS? I think it is. Since you outed the private conversation you started and I told you I didn't want to continue going back and forth with you in PM after saying my peace, I will be happy to share what I wrote to you, in substance. Here goes, don't say you didn't ask for it:
I am not afraid of speed OR distance. I personally am thrilled that, after a lot of hard work, I travel twice as fast now as when I took up hiking as a major hobby summer two years ago. I hope to years from now I travel similarly faster and am lighter of weight and healthier yet.
My problem with you is not that you hike fast. It's that you appear to have this chip on your shoulder about how fast and how far you hike and how much faster and further than others, and you can't seem to stop yourself going on about it like it makes you a superior person. I pointed out to you that while I respect that you are fleet of foot and skilled as a rock climber, things which in MOST members of this board I would enjoy learning from, I find it repulsive that you, unlike so many very smart and very skilled hikers and climbers here and at Views from the Top, that you, almost alone, Jake - almost but not quite - have this need to lord your speed over others. "I'm way faster than you. Hell, I did Wildcat and Carter in a day, it was a snap." The truth is, there are plenty of people here and elsewhere, for what it's worth, who are plenty faster than you, as I also pointed out to you, or plenty more interesting, people such as Hugh and Trish Herr, Chris Dailey, DMOutdoors, much less a Honnold or a Stoeck. And none of those people feels the need to come here and pop off about how awesome they are, because they have class.
So yes, I did encourage you to put a sock in it, to stop popping off about how you're better than some others because you hike faster. I also told you not to PM me anymore in my FIRST reply to you. You violated that and replied, but I said once was fine, but no more. So far, you have at least honored that, but now you show the lack of discretion and respect for privacy, without my permission, to take our private conversation public. That's too bad, but I guess it's of a piece with your well-established pattern here. All hail and bow before the mighty Jake, he who can hike 25 whole miles in a day. Wow, ain't he awesome? Jen Pharr Davis surely is shaking in her shoes.
And yes, this is a mean post. And a waste of my time. And it upsets the comity of the community. And I regret all that. But you, sir, are the one who PM'd me first, and you are the one who took it public in this thread. Grow up and learn some manners. And for heaven's sake, spare us going on about how awesomely fast you are. I get the idea that if you passed me on trail, I might just turn and hike in the opposite direction just to make sure not to run back into you, lest I die of boredom hearing you prattle about how fast you can cover ground. There's so much more to like than miles per hour. Figure out something more interesting to say about yourself, if you can.
Oh SNAP Jakeda$$... :banana:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana: banana You gonna PM da "Gator" cuz you got served??? :welcome
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 21:37
And you never fail to go out of your way to call be out on crap for no reason.
*plonk* back on ignore. i took it off for a while to give you a chance but you have to keep chasing me around bugging me.
jakedatc
11-16-2012, 21:38
Perhaps stick with your little Clique in the Cafe. everyone will hug you there.
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 21:50
Our little clique gets about 1500 hits a day.its for people who dont have to be right all the time.and its for fun,jake,just for fun. just like hiking it's just walking
Our little clique gets about 1500 hits a day.its for people who dont have to be right all the time.and its for fun,jake,just for fun. just like hiking it's just walking
A-MEN! How you doin', Hikerboy, my friend? Did Lou catch up with you yet?
hikerboy57
11-16-2012, 21:52
Jake,do you need a hug?
Mike2012
11-16-2012, 22:28
I don't care. HYOH
Our little clique gets about 1500 hits a day.its for people who dont have to be right all the time.and its for fun,jake,just for fun. just like hiking it's just walking
He's pathetic, oops, prophetic, that I've never posted in the cafe... Still waitin' for WOO to invite in for???...
[QUOTE=jakedatc;1362825]Perhaps stick with your little Clique in the Cafe. everyone will hug you there.[/QUOT
I'll tell ur mom you said "Hi" ... un-comfortable lol... DB...
Our little clique gets about 1500 hits a day.its for people who dont have to be right all the time.and its for fun,jake,just for fun. just like hiking it's just walking
He's pathetic, oops, prophetic, that I've never posted in the cafe... Still waitin' for WOO to invite in for???...
Toli you are officially invited even though no one needs an invite. The cafe just about goofing off. I can't be serious all the time and don't take offense when they pick on my cooking.
Why are people so afraid of other people's hiking speed and distance? - Jakedatc
Well, it's some people. I got over it. I think it mainly occurs because some folks, meaning the masses, are competition minded when it comes to hiking. And, that's rooted in the ego. Some hikers, I think the majority, want to compare what they do with what other hikers do.
I long ago decided I was not going to hike out of my ego, which gives rise to pride, jealousy, anger, ignorance, fear, predjudices, harsh judgemets, selfishness, self righteousness, intolerance, etc.
I've found a middle ground a balance have you in my hiking admitting to myself and others that I'm not the fastest biggest miles per day hiker out there and I'm not the slowest hiker out there(even if I was I don't care though!). When you have this overly haughty opinion of your hiking abilities like how fast you hike and how far you normally hike and how light your pack weighs and what great shape you're in and a 12 yr old plump red haired girl resembling Pippy Long Stockings hikes you into the ground waltzing by you like Dorothy on her way to see the wizard or you can't keep up with Baltimore Jack despite his overly large and dated pack/gear(some might apply these characteristics to BJ too!, LOL) zipping up Stecoah Gap with a lit clenched Newport in his mouth it humbles you, or at least it humbled me!
Meant to incxlude this too - Not hiking out of or in my ego has brought my hiking to another level of freedom that I didn't initially realize existed.
Technically speaking, if it's not from your ego, where's it from?
I suppose once you are out there, your id maybe. I suppose that's why getting a little lost ads a rush.
Interesting.
I enjoy my morning paper route, cause it has to be done. First few papers can be a drag but once I get into the swing of things its all right, like breathing. Purposeful hiking, that's the thing. A trap line would be nice, if it were sustainable. I suppose just getting someplace, that's the thing, and the hike along the way, as long as it's scenic. The up close scenic is as good as the far off stuff I think. Also the changing of the seasons. It would help alot though, if it were purposeful. Here is a good one, for this time of year...
The Solitary Woodsman
When the grey lake-water rushes
Past the dripping alder-bushes,
And the bodeful autumn wind
In the fir-tree weeps and hushes, --
When the air is sharply damp
Round the solitary camp,
And the moose-bush in the thicket
Glimmers like a scarlet lamp, --
When the birches twinkle yellow,
And the cornel bunches mellow,
And the owl across the twilight
Trumpets to his downy fellow, --
When the nut-fed chipmunks romp
Through the maples' crimson pomp,
And the slim viburnum flushes
In the darkness of the swamp, --
When the blueberries are dead,
When the rowan clusters red,
And the shy bear, summer-sleekened,
In the bracken makes his bed, --
On a day there comes once more
To the latched and lonely door,
Down the wood-road striding silent,
One who has been here before.
Green spruce branches for his head,
Here he makes his simple bed,
Crouching with the sun, and rising
When the dawn is frosty red.
All day long he wanders wide
With the grey moss for his guide,
And his lonely axe-stroke startles
The expectant forest-side.
Toward the quiet close of day
Back to camp he takes his way,
And about his sober footsteps
Unafraid the squirrels play.
On his roof the red leaf falls,
At his door the bluejay calls,
And he hears the wood-mice hurry
Up and down his rough log walls;
Hears the laughter of the loon
Thrill the dying afternoon;
Hears the calling of the moose
Echo to the early moon.
And he hears the partridge drumming,
The belated hornet humming, --
All the faint, prophetic sounds
That foretell the winter's coming.
And the wind about his eaves
Through the chilly night-wet grieves,
And the earth's dumb patience fills him,
Fellow to the falling leaves.
Sir Charles George Douglas Roberts
Good question JAK!
I hike out of my unbounded spirit or that's my intention.
I like that. Trying to foster that in my daughter also. Tricky.
How do you lead someone on a path to self-discovery?
I suppose you have to be, to them, just another section of the trail.
How hilly and rocky? How straight? How narrow?
Just be yourself, I guess.
Toli you are officially invited even though no one needs an invite. The cafe just about goofing off. I can't be serious all the time and don't take offense when they pick on my cooking.
Or pick AT it. Some of the stuff you serve up, Rasty is .... um ... original?!? :eek: ;)
It's a funny think JAK. When you start looking outside of yourself outside of your own desires and needs coming to the realization that you are part of an immense living expanding universe part of creation it humbles you. But, at the same time it makes you realize as you look inward who you are in the sense that you also have the power to create and destroy. It can make you aware of how you impact all that is seen and unseen. It makes you realize that as you improve yourself stepping forward into the fullnesss of your unlimited potential that you are bettering humanity and the universe at the same time. In other words, when we look outward taking the focus off ourselves we in turn learn who we are as individuals. That's self-discovery.
When you live in the now "in the moment" living not out of the ego which gives rise to all that I stated above and instead consciously DECIDE to embrace, multiply, and eminate love, faith, hope, wisdom, knowledge, compassion, peace, joy, generosity, patience, etc one begins to understand themselves and that is true self-discovery.
How do you foster self-discovery in your daughter? I don't have all the answers for myself much less everyone else but you might think about demonstrating to your daughter your own self-accutualization/self discovery experiences like you did when you posted an answer to an OP's question here on WB some yrs ago on why you bivy. And, be real when you do it. Let her take away from you relating those experiences what she will. Allow her to make some of her own successes and failures but still let her unequivocally know that you are still there for her. Show her the goodness that is inside you and that you are. I also believe doing a long distance hike like a thru-hike or by spending an extended period absorbed in nature is a great breeding ground for self-discovery.
Hope that helps.
Sorry to hijack the thread.
Thanks Dogwood. Well written. That did help a lot. Had a bit of a blowout with the wife and child this week. Not physical or anything, but disturbing enough. Thanks for the advise and inspiration. Well timed.
hikerboy57
11-17-2012, 09:04
let her run as fast as she can. when she falls down pick her up. there is an expression that children grow up in spite of our best efforts. you will try your best to help them prevent making mistakes and they will make them anyway just pick them up dust them off and point them in the right direction.
hikerboy57
11-17-2012, 09:04
97 percent thread drift.
WingedMonkey
11-17-2012, 09:44
97 percent thread drift.
Usually happens when Clown College invades a thread.
HikerMom58
11-17-2012, 10:25
Dogwood... amazing insight!! :) Both of your posts are filled with great introspection and truth. I will just add my piece of knowledge to your well stated challenge to Jake.
I'm not saying that Jake would be one of these people at all but there are people out there that are not capable of introspection. Due to no fault of their own.
Their ability to do that was "cut off" long ago. It's not necessary to go into the reasons why it happens. :(
Getting back to Jakedatc.... I believe that Jake is not purposefully trying to cause a scene. Jake is coming from the place that was so many other hikers are coming from... If he can understand what you are saying, Dogwood, he will be set free- just like you stated.
Let's don't over think this. Jake had a valid point to start then it unfortunately turned into a crusade. He should have said his piece and moved on. You can't change the world but you can change how you perceive it.
Capt Nat
11-17-2012, 11:15
This is a great thread Mr. Jake. Honestly, I couldn't imagine a hiking forum being interesting for more than a couple of weeks. It's the drama here that keeps me reading.
My whole life, there's always been somebody who was lifting more, running faster, diving deeper/longer, steering straighter.
I've spent a large portion of my life doing things people are telling me I can't do. I listen to all advice, look at my own research, and make my own decisions. Sometimes I really screw up.
When I start up that incline, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, says, or does. It's just me huffing and puffing and straining toward the top. I might make it or I might not. I don't care about anyone's opinion. I appreciate the advise I got, some that I followed and some that I ignored but, this is personal. You are welcome to share my triumph but the aches and blisters are mine alone.
I've never seen such a snippy bunch of hikers anywhere but here. No matter what I or anybody says about anything, someone here will take exception to. You are all wrong. I'm the only one who is right. Hike your own hike. Yes, my pack weighs nearly 40 pounds, shut up!
jakedatc
11-17-2012, 11:25
Let's don't over think this. Jake had a valid point to start then it unfortunately turned into a crusade. He should have said his piece and moved on. You can't change the world but you can change how you perceive it.
Thanks GG.. I just find HYOH people are hypocritical when it comes to people who want to hike faster or further. Always seem to think they know better and they want to change people.
Luckily this doesn't happen in the woods because they are quickly left behind. And in my experience when the 2 types mix it is generally fun. Met a family on Killington that did in 3 days what we did in 1, they did a family trip every year. they laughed about how much crap they still had.. canned food etc. they shared snacks and stuff with everyone there. They were having fun, we were having fun.
Hikermom you don't know me, you don't know how I think. I'm not "trapped" somehow. I don't go hiking for introspection, I go hiking to hike.
I enjoy what I do, how I do it like many others here. I and others don't need to be CHANGED.
"Light doesn't mean you have to go fast, but it sure is fun sometimes" - my LT trailjournal after my 2nd to last day
http://jakedatc.wordpress.com/ go read it if you want...
hikerboy57
11-17-2012, 11:32
good post Jake.
HermesUL
11-17-2012, 11:33
...that's not why Hike Your Own Hike means.
HikerMom58
11-17-2012, 11:42
Jake... we don't want to change you. But you do seem stuck in the mind-set of thinking that everyone is out to change you. What we mean by being set free is to be free of that feeling. Being free to do your own thing and realize that everyone else is fine doing theirs. I know I don't know what you are thinking but that's how you are coming across.... I like you well enough & have no ill feelings towards you.
Usually happens when Clown College invades a thread.
So it's good you came?
Jake... we don't want to change you. But you do seem stuck in the mind-set of thinking that everyone is out to change you. What we mean by being set free is to be free of that feeling. Being free to do your own thing and realize that everyone else is fine doing theirs. I know I don't know what you are thinking but that's how you are coming across.... I like you well enough & have no ill feelings towards you.
Good post, HikerMom. Time for me to go find a trail and commune with it. Got a new picture-taking thing that also places calls. :)
jakedatc
11-17-2012, 12:46
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?89477-No-zeros&p=1362914&viewfull=1#post1362914
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?89477-No-zeros&p=1362914&viewfull=1#post1362914
what a douche... this is what i mean .
jakedatc
11-17-2012, 13:00
meant to be quoted above.
Thru-hiking IS NOT just about hiking! Think about it. This revelation might improve your life experiences when hiking! or not hiking!
Dogwood talks a whole bunch of HYOH BS here then goes and is trying to 'enlighten" the guy wanting to do a fast hike with no zeros for a personal challenge.
Hypocrite.
Thanks GG.. I just find HYOH people are hypocritical when it comes to people who want to hike faster or further. Always seem to think they know better and they want to change people.
Luckily this doesn't happen in the woods because they are quickly left behind. And in my experience when the 2 types mix it is generally fun. Met a family on Killington that did in 3 days what we did in 1, they did a family trip every year. they laughed about how much crap they still had.. canned food etc. they shared snacks and stuff with everyone there. They were having fun, we were having fun.
Hikermom you don't know me, you don't know how I think. I'm not "trapped" somehow. I don't go hiking for introspection, I go hiking to hike.
I enjoy what I do, how I do it like many others here. I and others don't need to be CHANGED.
"Light doesn't mean you have to go fast, but it sure is fun sometimes" - my LT trailjournal after my 2nd to last day
http://jakedatc.wordpress.com/ go read it if you want...
Introspection is way overrated. I would rather think about so many other things. For me hiking is about shutting down the mind and getting back to basics (Sleep, eat, walk, look at the scenery and finding a good spot to poo each day) not much else to think about.
Be nice! No need for all that. I think you misinterpreted my intentions and what I stated. I know where you are coming from Jakedatc. At this point in my life I'm so jaded that when someone tells me I can't acheive something, it's too difficult, or something is impossible I automatically believe that I'm capable of doing it or it can be accomplished, not because I'm being rebellious but because I've proven the naysayers wrong so many times! If you want to do a hike with no zeros and zip down the trail with your hair on fire do it and stop with all the needless wannabe coulda woulda shoulda but didn't chatter.
It seems you are getting annoyed and resentful though, perhaps even angry, by other people's different or opposing opinions, which is something you might want to rise above if you want to hike and live live outside of the box. Naysayers are everywhere! Get used to that. Champions, those striving to reach new heights, exploring new domains, stretching themselves to go further and faster like yourself need to be aware their endeavors, attempts, failures, and accomplishments are going to come under scrutiny. But, you might also be willing to look at your hiking and perhaps living from different perspectives, sometimes opposing perspectives that others offer, that could possibly offer new insights. Be willing to take wise instruction. If we didn't do that we would all still believe in the Easter bunny. Of course, you would need to be able to discern between what's wisdom and what's simply naysaying in order to accept and apply sagacious advice. My advice is to not get overly hung-up with those who say going faster and further, or slower and shorter, are wrong.
jakedatc
11-17-2012, 14:11
So why are you telling Squirrel to take zero days when that is not his goal. he does not want to smell the flowers, see trail towns, chat with ukelele strumming stoners. He wants to do the trail with no zeros
read where i quoted you again. Think about how that looks to someone who is planning to do something hard.. really hard. Instead of all the negative folks on there how about some positive encouragement.. like make sure you eat right, drink enough, stretch well, keep you feet in good shape. THAT is the advice he needs.. not people telling him he is going to fail before he even starts.
You better read my post on that thread again. No where do I say to Squireel to take "zero" days. If Squireel wants to thru-hike with no "zero" days then he should go for it! That's his decision. I wish him nothing but success in his endeavors. And, when taken in context with my last post on this thread, why should Squireel give one iota of concern if someone, including myself, was to tell him he can't thru-hike with no zeros; IF he, or anyone for that matter, truely wants to do the things he says he wants to do then just go do it and stop talking about it. Come back and let us know how it went. And, prove anyone wrong who said he couldn't or shouldn't. Raise the bar! Demonstrate through accomplishment the possibilities! Even if failing to accomplish the goal come back and let us know what you've learned!
I did say, "Thru-hiking IS NOT just about hiking! Think about it. This revelation might improve your life experiences when hiking! or not hiking!" and stand by what I said. Perhaps, the confusion arose with the inclusion of "...or not hiking!" but that was NOT meant to necessarily imply "zero" days. I was referring to all of life's many experiences when not hiking or hiking! See the difference?
Jakedatc, I think you might have mistakenly pegged me as someone who says you can't when I'm often the one raising my voice over the crowd to say you can.
And, don't confuse my statements and intentions with others.
jakedatc
11-17-2012, 15:54
So you are implying that he is missing out on something that he is not concerned about missing? Maybe i'm just confused on what you are trying to accomplish by telling him that.
Introspection is way overrated. I would rather think about so many other things. For me hiking is about shutting down the mind and getting back to basics (Sleep, eat, walk, look at the scenery and finding a good spot to poo each day) not much else to think about.
Um, got some questions. How do you "think about so many other things" and shut down the mind at the same time? How do you engage in and enjoy sleeping, eating, walking, looking at the scenery, and pooing with your mind not involved?
Even though I know we can slow our thinking and brain functions down as well as channel and limit our thoughts in a particuliar direction do our minds really entirely shut down when we sleep, eat, walk, look at the scenery? You're not a zombie are you? Even when "zoned out" do our minds not work on some level?
Do you mean to say rather than being introspective you instead channel your thoughts into something more basic? I find when well into a long distance thru-hike my entire being somehow becomes more alive, more in tune, more connected with everything else. That is, my body, senses, spirit, and even thoughts(mind) become clearer and more acute. I become more aware! Perhaps, one reason my thoughts become clearer is that so much of the daily entaglements and BS of modern human civilization have been deleted. Is that what you are saying?
Introspection is way overrated. I would rather think about so many other things. For me hiking is about shutting down the mind and getting back to basics (Sleep, eat, walk, look at the scenery and finding a good spot to poo each day) not much else to think about.
Um, got some questions. How do you "think about so many other things" and shut down the mind at the same time? How do you engage in and enjoy sleeping, eating, walking, looking at the scenery, and pooing with your mind not involved?
Even though I know we can slow our thinking and brain functions down as well as channel and limit our thoughts in a particuliar direction do our minds really entirely shut down when we sleep, eat, walk, look at the scenery? You're not a zombie are you? Even when "zoned out" do our minds not work on some level?
Do you mean to say rather than being introspective you instead channel your thoughts into something more basic? I find when well into a long distance thru-hike my entire being somehow becomes more alive, more in tune, more connected with everything else. That is, my body, senses, spirit, and even thoughts(mind) become clearer and more acute. I become more aware! Perhaps, one reason my thoughts become clearer is that so much of the daily entaglements and BS of modern human civilization have been deleted. Is that what you are saying?
I still think. Just not about b.s. I don't think about work or regular problems. Also I usrd the word introspection which implies critical thinking about yourself. Thinking about flowers, mountains or bear scat is not introspective thinking.
Thru-hiking is not just about walking down a trail. It's also about resupplying, maintaining your body, gear, and mind, adapting, getting wet, hot, cold and dirty, sleeping, eating, feeling the breeze and sunshine on your face, smelling the pine and spruce, hearing the snow crunching under your feet, having birds eat from your hand, meeting and overcoming the myriad of challenges posed every single day, being exposed to things you usually are not exposed to and having the where with all to embrace it all, etc. What I was implying in my statement was that even if driving a car you don't just drive. All sorts of other things are happening to you, around you, and that you are effecting. It's the same with thru-hiking. Thru-hiking isn't just about hiking.
You might try not being so combative. Hiking should be about enjoying something not
hikerboy57
11-17-2012, 17:14
1 of the benefits of hiking is shutting down your internal dialogue. this opens your mind to insights you normally would not be aware of.ego disolves and awareness increases.
jakedatc
11-17-2012, 17:18
you can think of lots of other things other than yourself. mmmm foood.... what is that noise.. what is that smell (Rasty must have come through here).. mmm food... mmm sleeeeep... HEY LOOK SHINY! foooood?
or zone out just enough so that when the stupid grouse flush out 2' in front of your feet your heart rate can jump 200 bpm and freak out.
So you are implying that he is missing out on something that he is not concerned about missing? Maybe i'm just confused on what you are trying to accomplish by telling him that.
How can you appreciate what you are missing if you aren't aware of what you are missing? I think that's what several posters have been trying to say in their own words.
you can think of lots of other things other than yourself. mmmm foood.... what is that noise.. what is that smell (Rasty must have come through here).. mmm food... mmm sleeeeep... HEY LOOK SHINY! foooood?
or zone out just enough so that when the stupid grouse flush out 2' in front of your feet your heart rate can jump 200 bpm and freak out.
I only section hike so you can't smell me 1/4 mile away.
...what is that smell (Rasty must have come through here).. mmm food... mmm sleeeeep... HEY LOOK SHINY! foooood?
LOL. We all got to lighten up some. That's how we can do it.
The OP requested the thread be shut down. Per policy, it is being shut down.
If it makes you too feel better to say I stink then that's ok. I'm comfortable with my hygiene habits.:p