NOBO Thru in 90 days? [Archive]

keep moving

11-19-2012, 23:40

Different Socks

11-19-2012, 23:55

Just a quick answer: Your quest is doable, but.......the AT is one of the toughest hikes to do and if you had no rest days(no zero mile days), each of those 90 days would be a 24.5 mile walk.

keep moving

11-20-2012, 00:08

Yep, and with a zero scattered here and there I'll need closer to a 26 mile per day average. But theres plenty of daylight in the summer and I dont mind walking for 12 or 14 hours a day.

hikerboy57

11-20-2012, 00:15

Forrm 3 months straight?

keep moving

11-20-2012, 00:21

I guess thats the hope. Realistically I'll get injured in New Jersey or somewhere equally silly and have to call it quits or I wont be fast enough and August 15th will roll around while I'm in Vermont. I was just wondering what sort of prep I should do and what should I know going in to something like this?

d.o.c

11-20-2012, 00:22

itll be tuff to keep that kind of pace day after day.. more power to ya just be sure to enjoy yourself.

jj2044

11-20-2012, 00:25

keep moving

11-20-2012, 00:33

I understand its going to be incredibly difficult and that its unlikely I'll make it all the way, which I'm totally okay with. The question is what would I need to do to prepare myself for something like this as far as gear and training? What would be the best way to maximize my chances of making it all the way?

keep moving

11-20-2012, 00:38

Actually, Dogwood phrased it really well in another thread.

how do I do a speedy(110 days or less) thru-hike of the AT during typical thru-hiking season doing 20 MPD out of the gate avg 20 MPD throughout the thru-hike with no planned "zeros

How do I do a speedy (90 days) NOBO Thru-hike of the AT between May and August averaging ~26 miles per day with few planned zeros?

Rasty

11-20-2012, 00:54

jakedatc

11-20-2012, 01:58

start doing practice hikes when you have a chance now. hopefully if you are in a spot without much snow you can get out a lot.

it will also give you a chance to refine your gear down to a weight that will allow you to travel quickly and less stress on the body. it will also let you bring more food to bypass a more difficult resupply point etc etc.. benefits are many.

Andrew Skurka did it in 95 days with 4 zeros http://andrewskurka.com/adventures/appalachian-trail/faq-thoughts/
Lint did it in '10 in 98 days.. not sure how fast he did it in '04 the first time around

Get in shape and kick @ss

squireel

11-20-2012, 02:24

My thoughts- go for it. The worst that could happen is you not make it
The general thought thrown at me from white blaze- hike your own hike unless you want to go fast, then we shall tell you to slow down and smell the roses.

keep moving

11-20-2012, 10:31

You won't know what is possible until you try. Get out and do a bunch of 50 mile three day trips. Your knees or ankles or feet are going to tell you if you can do it. The only word of caution is to ease into it, I have made the mistake of training on flat ground and going to the mountains and walking 20 miles on day one, which makes day 2 really suck and day 3 very painful. On flat ground we don't use certain muscles very much and miniscus and IT band problems can get painful going down hill. I'm only a section hiker and generally hike in three day 50 mile sections and 2 week+ long hikes each year. Backpacking is not very difficult as far as camping goes. It's actually less work then car camping because you won't have very much stuff to fiddle with in camp. Set up tent, cook dinner, clean up, sleep. Some people like shelters, others tents or hammocks. I like my tent because I don't have to worry about bothering others or them bothering me.

Thanks. I'll definitely do some 50-mile 3-day hikes as soon as I get the chance. Is there a good way to simulate hiking hills? I work in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa mostly, which are all very very flat. Is it just a matter of finding one hill and hiking it over and over? Would stairs be a suitable substitute?

@jakedatc
Definitely want a refined gear list. None of this starting out with a baseweight of 30 pounds and narrowing it down stuff. Right now I'm thinking it'll be a base of somewhere between 10 to 12 pounds. I wish Andrew Skurka wrote more in-depth about his experience on that 1st hike, it seems very similar to what I'm hoping to do in terms of experience and time-frame.

@hollywood2010
I guess we'll see what happens. From right here right now I'm really looking forward to going back to school, but I know the AT can certainly change that with new perspectives and experiences.

@squireel
Worst that could happen would probably be getting mauled by a bear or a horde of squirrels! :) I saw you catch a fair amount of flak in your zero-day thread and I was actually a bit hesitant to post, but I really wanted to hear peoples thoughts and see if I could get any advice from some speed hiking vets.

hikerboy57

11-20-2012, 10:50

Stair climbing will help.take them two or three at a time both up and down.youll also need to strengthen your ankles for the rocks and roots of the northeast

snifur

11-20-2012, 10:53

it is completely doable and you should do it. I would suggest climbing as many flights of stairs continuously as possible. sure running is good, but it does not translate well to hard steep hiking. get on a stair climber and go at it for 30 minute increments. on a day off, plan a mock hike for a 12 hour day. walk around the block hit as many stairs as you can then do a stair climber for 15 minutes straight, then walk around the block hitting as many stairs as you can. repeat this process for 12 hours taking breaks when and where you feel but you need to maintain 2+ mph all day to meet your mile goal. then you will have an idea of what walking 12 hours is like. if you can do it with no pack on without quitting on yourself then the next day do it with a 20-25 pound pack. then you will have an idea of what is in store and be able to adjust.

Pedaling Fool

11-20-2012, 11:00

Stairs would be good, although a little bit of a pain in the ass if not a really high building. You also want to do a lot of downstairs walking to see if you got issues with your knees. A lot of people get sore knees from the going down hills because it almost completely isolates the quads and forces them to support your weight (and backpack) as opposed to going up hill which uses more of you leg, i.e. the hamstrings and glutes, thereby not being as stressful on the knees.

Build up the knees with step ups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqApCGd5Ss

Single-leg squat are also really good along with regular back squats and front squat are good at isolating the quads.

jakedatc

11-20-2012, 11:06

You could send him an email. He may have more written somewhere that isn't up on his site. for gear check out his final gear list and perhaps read through the How To section which has many of the topics in his book. you can also find his gear talk and other videos on Youtube

i think a tarp and bivy suit pretty well for the AT.. especially if you use the shelters most of the time. I think canister stoves like the snowpeak Giga or Optimus crux are more convenient than alcohol. Quilts are much lighter for the price than very light sleeping bags and you can use a warm version longer since you can regulate the heat a bit easier than a bag.
http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=9476 is my fall/spring list.. some things could still be improved, my summer weight drops 2 more pounds.

jakedatc

11-20-2012, 11:13

I've been told by moderators to no longer talk about speed hiking so. good luck and goodbye.

bigcranky

11-20-2012, 11:19

Is there a stadium nearby at a small college or high school? Walking up and down the stadium steps while carrying a pack is one way to work on your aerobic capacity while strengthening your legs, ankles, and knees.

Other than that, you'll probably want to start just walking every day. It'll be tough with your work schedule, but if you can walk for two hours every day, with a pack, that will help a lot.

The weekend hikes will be the main thing, of course. You don't have to start with 50 mile weekends -- the first couple of times are really for figuring out all the camping stuff, the logistics involved, and what gear you really need. Once you get that sorted, you can start putting in the long days. By next April, you'll want to be able to walk a 30 mile day with a pack on a trail nearby. Maybe two such days back to back, if your schedule allows.

Then go hit Springer and start walking. Starting in May means no snow, much warmer conditions, and a lighter pack. (It'll still be chilly at night when you start, though.)

Good luck and have fun.

Snowleopard

11-20-2012, 11:52

Keep Moving, you seem to have the right attitude: "I understand its going to be incredibly difficult and that its unlikely I'll make it all the way, which I'm totally okay with." Go as far as you can and enjoy the trip.The thing to avoid is pushing so hard that you injure yourself, especially at the start. Also, be sure you do it in a way that is fun and not a death march.

Hills: do stairs and if you can find a small hill, hike up and down it repeatedly with the same weight you'll be carrying.
Trails: footing on trails won't be as good as roads/sidewalks, so do some hiking on trails with a bit of rocks and roughness to them.
Feet: work out footgear and blister prevention before you start.
Knees, hips: do quad and hamstring strengthening exercises and find a stretching regimen.
Age: you're young which is a great advantage. Just avoid injury by overdoing it in your training or the beginning of your hike.
Efficiency: practice setting up and breaking down camp and cooking camp meals till you're efficient at it. In your training and on the beginning of your hike, keep thinking about how you can smooth out your routines to make hiking easier and maximize your time on the trail.
Resupply: since you travel for work you might as well practice resupply, a quick in and out of a town, figuring out where to buy and resupplying food and supplies.

Here's a few of my favorite trail journals for a couple of hikers who have done fairly fast hikes (100+/- days) at much older age (50s or 60s). They spent more time 'smelling the roses' than most even though doing consistently long days. The thing they have in common is that they are very experienced hikers (PCT+CDT+AT). Your advantage is that you're 30 years younger. Garlic08 is on WB and I think Iceaxe is occasionally.

Iceaxe
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=9db16f1cd7567c74b865c486decf21 e9&entry_id=19182 (http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=9db16f1cd7567c74b865c486decf21 e9&entry_id=19182)
Garlic08 and Pickle:
http://www.trailjournals.com/about.cfm?trailname=6620 (http://www.trailjournals.com/about.cfm?trailname=6620)

keep moving

11-20-2012, 17:12

Alot of my work is with smaller universities/colleges, so theres plenty of stadium steps I'll be able to work with. Would it be best to start with no weight and work at that til I can do a few hours no problem and then start adding weight? Or should I just start with 25 pounds right off the bat and build endurance slowly with that?

@john gault
Lots of leg workouts are in order then. I think hikerboy57's suggestion of doing multiple steps per stride on stairs replicates the motion of step ups, as long as I make sure to keep my form solid and tight.

@jakedatc
I'll shoot him an email and see if he can talk a bit more about his hike. I looked through his gearlist and it didnt seem too far off, but a 2.9 pound pack and 2 pound sandals seems a bit wasteful. I was definitely thinking of going with a tarp rather than a tent and using shelters when convenient. If I can ask, what is it about canister stoves that makes them more convenient than alcohol stove? From what I've read up on, the alcohol stoves are lighter and easier to get fuel for.

@bigcranky
I'm looking to walk as much as I can, I should be able to squeeze in an hour or two a day. When I get the chance to do those multi-day overnight hikes I'm going to seize em. With the late start and warmer weathers, what sort of sleeping bag rating do you think should I be looking at? +30? +40?

@Snowleopard
I've done alot of trail running on some tough mountain bike trails in the past, so my ankles are stout. I have some elastic bands so I'll be able to do these sorts of workouts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0qBzbb7Bs. Thanks for finding those journals, I'll start reading through them.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

stumpknocker

11-20-2012, 18:15

So next summer I have 90 days between work and grad school, and I want to spend it hiking the AT. My question for you much more experienced hikers is what are my odds of being able to make it all the way to Katahdin and what are some things I should know before I start? To give everyone a better idea of what I'm looking at I drafted up a quick pros and cons list:

Pros:
I'm in pretty good shape. My 5k PR is just over 19 minutes, and I would consider myself an athelete. I know this doesnt translate to trail fitness but its a start.
I finish what I start and I dont like quitting. From my comfortable hotel room right now I think I can make it mentally, but we'll see what 2 straight months of rain brings.
I would set out on May 15th and need to be done by August 15th, so weather will be good? Atleast snow is highly unlikely!
My job right now is 100% travel and I work alone, so being alone for long stretches of time doesnt bother me.

Cons:
I only have 90 days to walk 2181 miles.
I've never done any camping other than car camping (shudder), but I plan on fixing this ASAP.
My schedule wont allow for anything longer than 3-day 2-night practice hikes between now and May.

Here is a guy I ran into twice in 2004. I ran into him in the southern AT somewhere and I ran into him again in Maine in the 100 mile wilderness. I flipped in '04 was the only reason I ran into him twice.

He basicly had the same time constraints as you do. He was also a runner and he packed lite. I remember him saying he only had three months to walk the Trail. He finished in 73 days.

He had only one complaint when I ran into him in Maine...it was about me. I had packed out a whole pizza from Whitehouse Landing and had finished the pizza moments before he walked up. :)

You can find his journal here; http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=2342

I think it might help you with your planning.

You sound like you have the drive to make it.

bigcranky

11-20-2012, 18:39

Mid May is really nice in the Southern Appalachians. The days are warm, the nights are cool, it's not too buggy, and the trails aren't completely overgrown yet. You will probably get some nights around freezing (our first night at Springer in early June 2003 we had frost), but not that many. A good light 32-F or 35-F down bag with a full zipper would be fine -- warm enough for those chilly nights, and it can be unzipped and used as a quilt the rest of the hike. A 40-F bag might cut it if it's accurately rated.

The Marmot Hydrogen is rated to 30F, comfort-rated to 40F, and on sale for under $250 here (http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-hydrogen-sleeping-bag-30-degree-down). It gets high marks from hikers.

keep moving

11-20-2012, 20:25

@stumpknocker
Another trail journal about a similar journey is great, thanks for linking to it! 73 days sounds absurd, but than again so does 90 days. And shame on you for devouring that pizza!

@bigcranky
Frost in June, yikes! I sleep pretty hot, so a bag thats accurately 40F rated might cut it.

Thats a good looking bag, but it looks like its fill is down. From everything I've read it seems it rains every day on the trail, and that down is slower to dry and loses its insulating power when wet, making synthetics the better choice. 1lb 9oz is pretty nice though!

garlic08

11-20-2012, 20:39

Thanks to Snowleopard for the link to my journal. Rasty has the idea about getting in shape for hiking by hiking. Start with 50 miles in three days, then work up to 50 miles in two days, eventually to 100 miles in three days. You will need stretches like that to make it, because you'll have plenty of half-days in town to resupply, fix gear, etc. One key is to find a sustainable pace from the start. You cannot afford downtime due to blisters, shin splints, tendonitis, stress fracture, sunburn, poison ivy, undernourishment, dehydration, lack of sleep, replacing gear that's not quite right, etc. Another key is going with a light pack. If you get everything ticking along just right, a fast hike can be very enjoyable, challenging, and cheap too. Good luck!

keep moving

11-20-2012, 20:48

bigcranky

11-20-2012, 20:59

Thats a good looking bag, but it looks like its fill is down. From everything I've read it seems it rains every day on the trail, and that down is slower to dry and loses its insulating power when wet, making synthetics the better choice. 1lb 9oz is pretty nice though!

Lots of experienced hikers use down bags on the AT. Two things: you need to keep it dry, of course, and down is tougher to get soaking wet than you think. Also, too, sleeping in a soaking wet synthetic bag kinda sucks. (Ask me how I know that...)

johnnybgood

11-20-2012, 22:20

Go stoveless for a week and if it doesn't seem right for you then reconsider the choice. I can only speak of going no-stove for short weekend hikes but the idea of not futzing with a stove is appealing. Looking at what others have eaten there's enough of options for cold meals to vary the menu so as not to get "burned out" by any one thing.
I agree too that a Down sleeping bag is the way to go for a thru hike and keeping it dry is by all means of paramount importance.

keep moving

11-20-2012, 22:52

Would it be feasible to simulate going stoveless now by just eating convenience store/gas station food for a few days? Or would that be something that needs to be trail-tested?

Hmmm, I'll start giving down bags another look. I've heard so much jibber jabber about rain and synthetics that I had sort of convinced myself that down was a total no-go. Regardless of whether I end up with down or synthetic it will need to stay dry. I found this cached post about keeping sleeping bags dry, did the poster miss anything?

- Do not sleep with your face buried in the bag, each breath will add moisture directly into your bag.

- Do not overheat. Increased sweating will add moisture directly into your bag. Unzip and ventilate your bag. I find a silk bag liner is good in these situations as, even when your bag is partially unzipped, the silk liner will keep the chill night air from directly blowing in on you and feeling uncomfortable. Overall you can regulate your body temp easier, without getting chilled spots.

- Take precautions to prevent your bag from touching wet surfaces inside your tent. Almost all tents will develop condensation in the right (wrong) conditions, even double wall tents.

- Take every opportunity to dry out the moisture that does make it into your bag through normal use. Hang the bag in the sun each morning before packing if your schedule allows. If not, hang it at lunch if the weather allows. Hang it in camp when you first arrive, let it dry while you do your other camp chores.

- In real damp weather, keep you bag packed until just before you use it. Yes, it's a good thing to allow your bag time to "fluff" before you use it, but this is a double edged sword, as it also allows ambient moisture to enter the bag. Gotta play it by ear on this one.

- If you have your bag hanging, get it into the tent/shelter before the evening dampness sets in. Do not destroy all your drying efforts by letting it collect the evening damp.

- On real cold mornings, if you don't have time to hang your bag for an hour or two, pack it immediately after getting out of it. This will force the warm, moist air out of the insulation before it has a chance to cool and condense inside the bag.

- Whenever you get the chance while in town, take some time to run your bag through a dryer cycle or two (very low heat). This will remove the moisture that you don't even notice is there. If your bag is noticeably damp, it may take a couple extra cycles.

All this said, keeping your bag dry isn't all that difficult. Just have to think about it a bit at first, then it all becomes second nature. The suggestions given here are important for any bag, but extra important for a down bag. They reflect the fact that getting a bag wet isn't an "Opps, I screwed up" one-time event, but a gradual wetting of the insulation, over several nights, or even a week of use. Learn to counter this slow, steady onslaught, and your bag will keep you toasty warm every night, just like it did your first night.

Slo-go'en

11-20-2012, 23:12

No one's mensioned a tent or other personal shelter, I suppose that is a given. You will want to gain extra miles by hiking past shelters in the evening, so you'll be tenting alot along the side of the trail where and when possible.

I did a diet of PB+J, GORP and snickers bars for 800 miles once. All of which was readily available at gas station stores. This was suplemented by pleanty of resturant meals too!

Papa D

11-20-2012, 23:36

Lots of nay-sayers on here - you can do it. This will be my time for my next thru (and I'll be 50 +/-!). If you are in good shape and are committed, you'll get it done.

HermesUL

11-21-2012, 00:52

Keepmoving, you're talking about a very serious challenge here. I encourage you to go all for it, but be aware that in order to get this done you need to go all in on preparations, starting today.
I've had some backpacking experience and I'm nervous about my attempt to do a 110 day thru hike in approximately the same time frame (May thru the end of August), and that's knowing my own preferences and the fact that I enjoy hiking up to 25 mile days on good terrain. I know what big mile days are like over a two week period, I know what its like to be super minimal and lightweight, and I know what my body demands while backpacking. What I don't know is how my body will hold up over longer time, whether I'll need rest days at all, what terrain is like in the South, and countless other questions.

Here's a summary of my plan, for reference:
1. Almost all my food will be in mail drops. This will save me time and money, and works because I already know what I like to eat.
2. Traveling in 3-6 day segments, crossing between 70 and 160 miles each time.
3. Planned daily averages range from 15-26 miles per day depending on the segment, overall average is 20.2 miles per day
4. Training a lot and being very fit before the hike.
5. Carrying a 6 lb base pack weight
6. Eating over 4500 calories of food per day, or 2.3 lbs. Big miles require big meals, and running a calorie deficit is simply not an option if I'm going to stay healthy and complete on time.
7. Using Trail runners and possibly hiking shoes, enabling me to hike faster and longer days.

Remember that your trip is full 18% faster than mine, so you'll need to plan that much more ambitiously than this, except in the pack weight category. I wouldn't recommend that somebody with no camping experience use the equipment that I use, because its very specific. A good target weight for you might be 10-12 pounds without food and water. Get advice on this site and others on reducing the weight you carry, because this will enable you to pick up speed.

My advice? Do it. Go all out, make this the trip of your life. 90 days is not so hard and fast that you won't have fun if you're properly prepared. However, as you're aware, you've got a long way to go both before and obviously during the trip. It's difficult to prepare adequately for the mountains if you're living in the midwest--nothing can compare, but that doesn't mean you can't be at least mostly ready.

On the other hand, many people will tell you to relax the trip and plan on doing it over two consecutive summers. There is a lot to experience on the AT besides just hiking, and you'll here all about the sights to be seen and the joys to be had along the way, which they feel are a tragedy to miss. And they might well be right. I don't know your personality or physiology, so it's impossible to tell whether a more ambitious hike is right for you or whether you're better off doing less. I suppose the question depends on why you want to do the hike and what your experiences are when you do sample hikes.

Hope to see you on the trail in May!
Hermes

garlic08

11-21-2012, 01:02

@garlic08
I was reading your journal as we speak! Just saw the pic of the burning tree, that must have been a wild thing to stumble across in the woods! 50 in 3 -> 50 in 2 -> 100 in 3 sounds like a great progression training-wise. One thing I've noticed while reading about your AT adventure is the decision to go no-stove cold-food only. I know you talked about it a bit in prep#4 and prep#5, but I would love to hear a bit more about that decision, and if theres anything you've really missed about not taking a stove and being able to boil up some hot meals.

I was stoveless for several years before the AT'08 hike, and am still stoveless four years later. There's nothing I miss about the warm, salty glop I used to cook on a stove. I haven't used a stove since my PCT'04 hike. I started bouncing it ahead a couple of weeks at a time until I figured out my hiking was better without it.

Colter

11-21-2012, 07:54

I'm not going to say you can't do it. Nobody, including yourself, knows if you can pull it off.

You asked what your odds are of making the whole AT in 90 days or less. I am going to be honest with you and tell you your odds are extremely low. The normal completion rate is around 20%. There is a tiny fraction of completed hikes that are 90 days or less, and with few exceptions they are very experienced hikers.

Right now you literally have no idea if you even enjoy backpacking. You are taking an extremely challenging venture and making it exponentially more difficult with your time constraints. To have a realistic chance to hike that fast you need to have experience long distance hiking "at speed." Experience teaches pacing, foot care, camping skills, etc. Without experience, you will almost certainly start out hiking too fast and hurt yourself, or you will end up starting too slow and it will be impossible to make up that time.

If you are making the hike to complete the AT in 90 days or less, you will likely be disappointed. You are much more likely to enjoy your summer if you take 90 days to have an adventure (on the AT or elsewhere) where you won't be pushing yourself so hard.

T.S.Kobzol

11-21-2012, 09:31

I guess you can really start with trying things you THINK you can do but have never done before. Since you THINK you can walk 14 hours per day for 90 days then I propose you take a weekend somewhere in the hills (not sure where in Midwest you are) and walk 14 hours per day both days with a 40lb backpack.

Report back to us on Monday with your observations.

I guess thats the hope. Realistically I'll get injured in New Jersey or somewhere equally silly and have to call it quits or I wont be fast enough and August 15th will roll around while I'm in Vermont. I was just wondering what sort of prep I should do and what should I know going in to something like this?

Malto

11-21-2012, 10:35

Usually I am the one that tells people looking to do a fast hike to go for it and I would say the same to you. BUT...there is one little sentence that dampens my enthusiasm for saying it, the little part that would indicate you have zero backpacking experience. While the 25/50/100 plan is a logical progression, how about just going out and doing a couple of quick overnights to get your gear initially tested but more importantly to find out if you even like backpacking. After a few of those then I would suggest looking through the prehike part of my PCT journal. (postholer.com trail name Malto) Your schedule doesnt need to be as aggressive as I trained for but you will quickly get the concept regarding the preparation needed to successful complete a speed hike. Or you could just Wing it and have your learning curve on the trail. If you chose the latter then you will quickly "get behind".

When you you do the math keep in mind that an average is just that, an average. A 25mpd average will mean quite a few 30 mile miles to offset neros, zeros and harder sections of trail. My 27mpd average actually had (5) 40+ mile days' (14) 35-40 mile days and (35) 30-35 mile days. I would be very careful getting confidence from an excel spreadsheet. It is easy for your fingers to turn the hours hiked cell from 10-12 hours to get higher mileage, it is much harder for your feet to deliver.

Finally, keep in mind that many of the hikers mentioned, garlic, iceaxe etc are very experienced hikers with thousands of miles of long trail experience. They can give you great insight into gear, nutrition, strategy etc. but what they can't give you is experience, that you have to earn on your own. Good luck and I hope you able to follow your dream.

Praha4

11-21-2012, 16:39

Hill repeats are great training for the AT, if you can find hills with decent elevation profiles to make it worth the effort. Staircases are also great training for the AT. I train here on the NW Florida beaches in a beachfront condo concrete-enclosed staircase, with 23 floors. I started out with no extra weight, and gradually worked up to wearing a Goldsgym 20 lb weight vest (available at Walmart) and also wearing 6-8 lbs of extra lead SCUBA weights. With a cheap SCUBA weightbelt you can add the lead weights to get whatever weight you desire.

The repeat upstairs and downstairs is great training, do as many repeat cycles as u can. I try to simulate 1,000 to 2,000 ft elevation profile, doing 4-8 cycles at a time. The staircases work much better for me than a stairclimber or elliptical machine at the gym.

good luck

hikerboy57

11-21-2012, 16:42

when you're on the staircase, vary the steps you skip,i.e. take 2 at a time ,then 3 then 1 then 3, both uphill and downhill, this will be as close to simulating the trail. the northeast has quite a few ledges, not just a walk uphill and downhill.

JJJ

11-25-2012, 11:20

Of course the odds are against you, by a long-shot, they are against you.
But that's what sets the stage for Adventure. ;)

Now, your task is to Work toward allaying every thing that is against completion.

If you are Serious about the task before you, your mind will burn with a million questions, you'll over-compensate with every physical and mental training regime you can muster between now and then.

If you're a Gambler, you'll just Wait with High anticipation of the first and last day, pluck yourself and you Money down on Springer and watch the Wheel spin.

Either way, it will be exciting.

If you're Serious, the real Adventure will start at Springer.

If you're a Gambler, Springer is about where it will end.

Enjoy.

Don H

11-25-2012, 11:48

The general thought thrown at me from white blaze- hike your own hike unless you want to go fast, then we shall tell you to slow down and smell the roses.

squireel, I don't think that's a very fair statement. You asked "Is it crazy thinking that a thru hike can be completed with no zeros?" and people here (many experienced thru-hikers) took the time to give you their opinion. You get to decide how you want to hike but if you don't want other's opinions than don't ask.

shelb

11-25-2012, 12:32

Hill repeats are great training for the AT, if you can find hills with decent elevation profiles to make it worth the effort. Staircases are also great training for the AT.

Where I am at, we only have sand dunes, and those do not even come close to simulating the mountains of the A.T. However, as mentioned above, staircases can be used for training. As Praha4 mentions, work up to the weight of your pack. I actually will train while wearing my pack fully loaded - plus, with additional water. I add the additional weight because there is still no way to simulate the higher altitudes of parts of the A.T. Even then, remember that training for only a couple hours a day will not compare with walking 20-30 miles per day on the A.T.

Good luck!

Malto

11-25-2012, 13:34

If you have a treadmill, set it on a fast walk setting, I use 4.5mph. After a five minute warmup, start increasing the incline by .5 degrees every minute. Go as high of incline as you can and then back down the same way. I will guarantee you if you can get above 12 percent (or s it degrees?) you will be able to skip up Springer mountain if you want. Want to make it a bit more interesting, once you are back down to zero incline, start increasing your speed by .1mph until you can no longer maintain the walk. (I hit his at about 5.5mph). Then back down to target speed.

If I lived in the flatlands this is exactly how I would train for a 90 day hike. I did this exact routine prior to starting my long pertaining hikes. Finally, I would nt train with a full pack, I would increase the intensity not the stress caused by the weight.

Pedaling Fool

11-25-2012, 13:53

This treadmill goes up to 50% incline, great for keeping the muscles in that part of you feet/ankles limber :) http://www.ironcompany.com/9600-commercial-incline-trainer-treadmill-nordictrack.aspx

http://www.ironcompany.com/ProductImages/nordictrack/9600_lg.jpg

Lumberjack2003

12-03-2012, 22:46

Good luck. Preparation, knowledge and discipline will get you to your goal.

Deadeye

12-04-2012, 00:25

The odds of finishing, or even staying out for 90 days, are crappy, but who cares. You have 90 days to go hiking, so go hiking!

ScottS

12-09-2012, 22:21

I met a couple this last year who did it in 100 or less. If you really want to do it, I bet you'll be fine. Biggest thing I would suggest is getting some experience with your gear, even if it's just weekends.

Kc Fiedler

12-25-2012, 00:40

So next summer I have 90 days between work and grad school, and I want to spend it hiking the AT. My question for you much more experienced hikers is what are my odds of being able to make it all the way to Katahdin and what are some things I should know before I start? To give everyone a better idea of what I'm looking at I drafted up a quick pros and cons list:

Pros:
I'm in pretty good shape. My 5k PR is just over 19 minutes, and I would consider myself an athelete. I know this doesnt translate to trail fitness but its a start.
I finish what I start and I dont like quitting. From my comfortable hotel room right now I think I can make it mentally, but we'll see what 2 straight months of rain brings.
I would set out on May 15th and need to be done by August 15th, so weather will be good? Atleast snow is highly unlikely!
My job right now is 100% travel and I work alone, so being alone for long stretches of time doesnt bother me.

Cons:
I only have 90 days to walk 2181 miles.
I've never done any camping other than car camping (shudder), but I plan on fixing this ASAP.
My schedule wont allow for anything longer than 3-day 2-night practice hikes between now and May.

Your biggest enemy is going to be lack of experience. It takes a lot of practice and plain old experience to get a system down and become proficient at backpacking. Sounds like your physical condition is up to it. But get as much experience as possible with long distance backpacking as you can. Learning the most efficient method to pitch and pack in the rain for instance will save you time from getting all your gear soaked and spending a day waiting for it to dry. Learning how to pack your pack quickly, effectively, and efficiently every morning will come with practice and reduce wasted time. There are many nuances of long distance hiking that are not apparent at first until you get out there and see for yourself, learn your methods and what works best for you and your gear. Every situation requires a unique and refined approach if you want to thru hike the entire AT in 3 months. Do-able, though. Good luck!

OzJacko

12-25-2012, 01:38

Doable??
Very much so - http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=2342 (Mind you he did stop in the middle but I think that would have made it harder.)
Increases a few risk factors for injury etc.
One advantage of that kind of speed is how little food you have to carry as you can eat a lot bigger percentage of your total meals in towns.
A hammock is not my scene but may help you to have a more "impromptu" camping regimen.
Also can make you hike a couple more miles to find the right trees.

Good luck. Pony Express is taken as trailname but you could try Stagecoach!:D

10-K

12-25-2012, 08:33

By the end of the first week you'll know if you seriously have a chance.

Obi-Juan

01-29-2013, 18:50

keep moving- are you still planning on doing this?

keep moving

01-30-2013, 00:29

Obi-Juan, yep, still looking forward very much to doing this! A majority of the advice I got from everyones replies had to do with going out and practicing, so thats what I've been doing to the best of my ability. I've been acquiring equipment and going out hiking as much as possible. Its been tough actually testing my gear in the winter since most of the gear is selected with the summer in mind as opposed to the winter, but getting out and hiking has been fantastic. Looking forward to the weather warming up so I can do some consecutive overnighters and aggressive long full-day hikes without snow.

Hoofit

01-30-2013, 08:57

Why not just go hike for 90 days, end up where ever and then finish the next year ?? AT in 90 is doable, but why ??????? and you dont mind walking for 12 to 14 hours a day ?? HAVE you before ???? MOST people that ask these questions have no idea what they are in for...... good luck.

You 're so right...Go hike for your ninety days and have one incredibly good time - Will you make it to Katahdin, probably not, but there's a plus side to that - you will have a reason to go back and have another great hike, without a doubt just go enjoy each day, the AT is not a race, take your time and you stand a much better chance of avoiding a serious injury as well - Good luck !!

fredmugs

01-31-2013, 10:53

If I was to set a Vegas style over / under line for myself I would set it at 99 days. You can do it. Most of the failures people keep mentioning are those who have no clue what they are getting into.

Obi-Juan

02-01-2013, 17:01

Nice, I'll be starting between May 15th and June 1st sometime with intentions of a 90-100 day trek. I hear you on the winter training, for sure. Hope to see you out there somewhere

JAK

02-01-2013, 20:24

So next summer I have 90 days between work and grad school, and I want to spend it hiking the AT. My question for you much more experienced hikers is what are my odds of being able to make it all the way to Katahdin and what are some things I should know before I start? To give everyone a better idea of what I'm looking at I drafted up a quick pros and cons list:

Pros:
I'm in pretty good shape. My 5k PR is just over 19 minutes, and I would consider myself an athelete. I know this doesnt translate to trail fitness but its a start.
I finish what I start and I dont like quitting. From my comfortable hotel room right now I think I can make it mentally, but we'll see what 2 straight months of rain brings.
I would set out on May 15th and need to be done by August 15th, so weather will be good? Atleast snow is highly unlikely!
My job right now is 100% travel and I work alone, so being alone for long stretches of time doesnt bother me.

Cons:
I only have 90 days to walk 2181 miles.
I've never done any camping other than car camping (shudder), but I plan on fixing this ASAP.
My schedule wont allow for anything longer than 3-day 2-night practice hikes between now and May.

Decent 5k time. You should definitely do this, but as with running listen to your body and know when to back off. Treat it like base training. High volume. Low intensity. Don't plan any rest days but take them if you need them. Reduce your carried weight to a minimum, within reason. Keep the running up, but use weekends for all day hikes instead of running. Incorporate hills into your weekday running if not doing so already. Work your Saturday and Sunday hikes into a 26.2 mile marathon each day, for the motivation, and camp out on the Saturday night. Have fun with it.

Work your way up to this...
Mon = Rolling 1 hour run at 60%
Tue = Hilly 2 hour run at 70%
Wed = Level 1 hour run at 75-80%
Thu = Hilly 2 hour run at 70%
Fri = Rolling 1 hour run at 60%
Sat = Hilly 26.2 mile hike and camp
Sun = Hilly 26.2 mile hike

or whatever turns your crank

stranger

02-02-2013, 10:09

It's been done before more than a few times, but generally by experienced long distance hikers. Averaging 25/day is tough, even if you throw in one 35 a week it doesn't buy you much. Hiking 30 miles isn't that tough on the AT for a fit, experienced and 'hiking' focused hiker...but I would say that it's easier to pull a couple 30's a week than to average 24-25 miles per day. For me, averaging 20 is no big deal, but above that gets tricky.

Think of this...day 3 in the rain, you've been on schedule, it's cold and raining and after 9 miles you hitch into town to resupply, you stop into a restaurant and get a hot meal, across the street is a motel for $45, laundry, hot shower, warm blankets, clean sheets and even a pillow...are you really gonna hitch back to the trail and pull another 15 to camp in the rain?

This means your next 3 days will need to be around 29 miles per day to get back on schedule

takethisbread

02-10-2013, 07:57

You have recieved some good advice, from many experienced hikers and speed hikers, and heed it all. one bit i would add KM is since you get these two-three days off from your work before you take off, why not put together a 3 day 2 night 75 mile hike? an early March jet from Springer to Hiawasee? or earlier you can hike in Southern Utah, or Arizona? if you cant make it to Hiawasee in 3 days how can you expect to make that same pace for 87 more days? while that is a fairly challenging stretch, its not as hard as New England, or even the Nantahala, which comes after. seems like a great way to guage your toughness level. fitness is overrated. can u stand the cold, the wet, the sleepless, the bugs, the stink, the hunger, the blisters, the injuries, the allure of home?

Walking Thunderbird

02-16-2013, 02:05

OK. I feel like I should throw out my 2 cents...

I had a very similar experience in 2009. I had 85 days between the bar exam and starting a new job, and I decided to try to hike the trail. I had dozens of people tell me I couldn't do it (or at least shouldn't try). I went for it and finished in 75 days. And I can count on one finger how many nights I'd backpacked before the trip started. If you're in good shape and have the right attitude (and don't mind long hiking days), then you should be fine. Worst case, you get injured / can't keep up the miles, and you hike a big part of the trail, which would be a great experience still.

A few suggestions:

1) Hit the trail already up to training. If you want to start doing 20-25 mile days, then you need to be training as that way. Your body can only be used to that if it's been doing it. I was walking 150 miles/week training before I started. Also, since you'll be pushing things, be prepared to lose days to injury: I was lucky to only lose one. Finally, it's ok to start doing fewer miles/day than you need to, and this is probably smart to avoid injuries. E.g., if you need to average 20/day, it's fine to start around 15. You'll get stronger as thing progress, and the middle part of the trail isn't steep and is easy to fly through (easy 25+ days if you don't mind putting in the hours).

2) Go lightweight as much as possible. My base weight was around 10-12 lb. Since you can stay in shelters most nights, you can skimp on shelter (I carried a tarp and didn't use it but a handful of times). Also, since you're going to be doing long days, you'll be pulling into shelters late. I started out carrying a lightweight stove, but didn't feel like cooking late most nights, so I sent it home and went on a cold foods diet after the first week or so (and gorged myself in towns). Also, because you'll be moving so fast, you can carry less food since you'll have fewer days between towns.

3) Don't worry about altitude. Average elevation isn't but a couple thousand feet, and the highest parts of the AT are less than 7k feet. I don't recall even noticing any altitude issues. This isn't the Rockies or the Sierra, which can be more than twice as high.

4) Have a great time, and don't worry about all the people who tell you to spend more time. In my experience, people who talk about spending "more time on the trail" in reality mean spending more time at shelters and in towns hanging out with people they've met. That's fine: for some people the AT is a big social experience. Just beware that given your time constraints, you'll be spending a lot less time doing those things.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more. I'd love to share my experiences and answer any additional questions you may have.

Malto

02-16-2013, 07:59

Walking thunderbird,
great summary. Did you keep a journal of your hike. There are relatively few documented "fast hikes". It may be helpful for the OP to see the cadence of your hike.

Walking Thunderbird

02-16-2013, 14:13

Walking thunderbird,
great summary. Did you keep a journal of your hike. There are relatively few documented "fast hikes". It may be helpful for the OP to see the cadence of your hike.

No, I didn't keep an online journal. Here's what I remember off the top of my head:

Started July 31 at Katahdin, did 20ish miles the first day.
After 5 days I was at Monson
After 13 I was at Gorham
After 20 Hanover (with one zero due to tendonitis before going over Mousilake) (second pair of shoes)
After 27, Dalton (stayed with Tom)
After 34, Unionville (stayed with the former mayor)
I think I passed Delaware Water Gap around day 37 (third pair of shoes, which were terrible)
Flew through PA, which was really easy due to easy elevation and walking through towns (minimize resupply time)
Harpers Ferry noonish on day 44 (fourth pair of shoes) -- spent that night at the youth hostel north of Shenandoah (don't remember the name)
South end of Shenandoah on day 48.
I hit Damascus the morning of my 62nd day (bought my fifth and last pair of shoes)
Northern TN was really cool and great hiking. I think I got to the north end of the Smokies (stayed at Standing Bear Farm) after 65. I remember the guy who runs the place thinking I was nuts for hiking from Hot Springs to there in a single day.
Left the smokies the morning of day 68.
Entered GA I think on my 73rd day early.
Arrived at Springer noonish on day 75.

That's a general summary. I think going SOBO may have made it easier b/c it allows you to start out doing smaller mileage but steeper days, then you can start cruising when you get south of NH. My longest day was around 40, shortest around 15 (did a couple of these early on ME and NH). South of Hanover, I averaged 32 miles a day.

keep moving

04-30-2013, 12:27

Thank you all for your advice. The overwhelming majority of what I heard was get out and hike, so I've done my best to do just that.

I've done quite a few day hikes between 10 - 18 miles and they all felt awesome. This last weekend I was able to take Friday afternoon, all day Saturday, and Sunday morning to hike Devils Lake State Park up in Wisconsin. After reading around a bit the consensus is that it is that out of all the parks in Wisconsin it is most similar to the AT, and the terrain was far rougher than anything I had done during my day hikes which were mostly flat dirt paths. The trail was a constant up and down, a nice mix of gradual path-type elevation gain and step/stairs-type elevation gain.

I ended up doing a 15 - 33 - 14 breakdown in terms of mileage, averaging ~3mph for days one and two and about ~2.5 for day three. My base pack weight was about 14 pounds, and I'm looking at about 12 pounds for when I set out on the trail. I was really bad at estimating how much food I was going to eat and brought closer to 4.5 days of food rather than the three days I needed, so my total pack weight started at about 24 pounds.

Couple of things to note: I was happy with my gear. My pack (REI Flash 45) carried the weight well with room to spare. The tent (Tarptent Sublite Sil 2010) was great. My pad (Thermarest ZLite Sol Short) seemed to be way less comfortable than other times I slept on it, so I'm thinking about swapping it for a NeoAir XLite. My sleeping bag (Kelty Cosmic Down 20) was meh, but I have a EE RevX 40 that will be coming with me on the trail.

One major eye opener was that the training I have been doing has been all wrong =( I've focused a lot on the muscles, calves, quads, hamstrings, and glutes, but those were not the problem at all. The muscles never got tired, nor did I ever really get out of breath even after the big climbs. Its the tendons and ligaments that were the bottleneck. Holy crap were they sore! At some point or another my left MCL, some tendon/ligament on the back of my right knee (possibly the PCL, but it felt further back behind the knee than that), and the extensor hallucis longus tendons (from the big toe to mid-way up the foot) on both feet all flared up at some point or another, but nothing crippling.

If anyone has any advice or anything like that its always appreciated, but all in all things are feeling good. I'm really excited to hit the trail in two weeks (May 15th woo!) and feeling pretty good about my chances for making it all the way to Katahdin. If not then I hope I can atleast make it to the Whites. If not then I hope I can atleast make it to the NOC =)

bear bag hanger

05-01-2013, 08:35

Sounds like you have everything under control. Just try to remember the first couple weeks should be a little bit slower than expected. It's very hard to train for a thru hike. When hiking you'll be going all day long and unless you train all day long, it's hard to get to the shape you need to be in. I think you'll need to do 28 to 30 mile days in order to do the whole AT in 90 days. Don't forget, you'll need to resupply once or twice a week and those days will likely be a shorter than the 25 you need to do.

Other people have done it, so it's not impossible. Most likely, I'll be somewhere between Harpers Ferry and Mt Katahdin during your hike. Hope to enjoy the breeze you're going to create as you pass me!