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Duramax22
11-21-2012, 08:00
Going on a trip to nc/tn the last week of December. I have plenty of spring thru fall hiking but have never been out in the winter. What's the clothing setup that most people use. I basically have no winter gear other than sleeping bag.

The Cleaner
11-21-2012, 08:55
Wool& Down,don't get wet....

juma
11-21-2012, 08:56
If you are walking in below freezing temps, long john lower and upper long sleeve wool or nylon with a kmart swimsuit and marmot driclime windshirt work well for me. If its really cold below 20* then maybe two layers of upper and lower. A visor hat with a beanie hat over it and a neck gaiter is nice as well. In those kind of temps I will probably wear waterproof trail runner type shoe with some medium weight wool socks. I'll have windpants/rainpants but probably won't wear them except at nite around camp. I'll probably have one of those very thin gossamer gear insulation pads to wrap around my torso in camp as well. Nylon gloves and a pair of wool glove liners inside them would be with me too.

for winter sleeping I have a WM versalite and use it with a custom R5 stephenson warmlite air mattress. I would likely have a MLD bivy as well and use it in my MH super mega UL2 tent.

I definitely have a jetboil stove to readily heat a waterbottle full of hot water to start the nite with.

Tipi Walter
11-21-2012, 09:24
I was out for 7 days during the Halloween storm in late October 2012 and got a foot of snow in a wilderness area south of the GSMNP. I thought about the other backpackers I saw and wrote this in my trip report during the storm---

STEVE AND JULIE
My mind drifts to Steve and Julie up there on the hill in the cold wind and figure they're inside their little 3 season tent which I barely looked at and it seemed to be sort of like a Big Agnes Seedhouse of bigger proportions. No winter backpacker in the Southeast, including Steve and Julie, have the overkill gear I'm carrying, namely the down parka as it's an overkill item. Some winter backpackers carry good 4 season tents and I've seen Trango 3's, North Face Mountains, Hilleberg Aktos and Allaks, Bibler single walls, Eureka Timberlines and some older model Mt Hardwears, Sierra Designs and others. But the great percentage of winter backpackers I see do not carry 4 season tents and instead use popular 3 season models with unsealable mesh.

Why? Money and weight. So, with the mesh they have one strike against them. Their sleeping bags rarely meet or exceed my bag, a WM Puma rated at -15F. Many of them have good bags but they're lucky to have anything in the 0F category no matter how cold it gets and as everyone knows, a 0F bag is really a 15F bag. Two strikes against them. As far as sleeping pads, most winter backpackers I see carry single ridgerests with a small inflatable and these 2 will work up here in the cold if they can keep the inflatable from leaking and if they can keep them on top of each other without sliding apart. Very few have Exped downmats, the warmest backpacking pad.

Clothing is the single biggest mistake winter backpackers make. They just don't bring enough and of the right quality. Most of them resort to using their gtx jacket shells as a wind shield over everything else they own which isn't much to begin with. Very few bring down pants and down booties and nobody hauls out a true goose down parka like the Icefall. Why? $$$$. So, they shiver all day in camp and have no choice but to seek their sleeping bags as the sun sets. Show me a guy standing around by his tent tonight up here in the cold and I'll show you a guy with down pants and a expedition down parka.

My rain jacket ain't for warmth except when moving and wouldn't even fit over my down parka and anyway the eVent in my parka blocks the wind as good as any gtx proshell garment. Winter backpacking is tough enough, why torture yourself with inadequate gear? Get the best (the best quality is always the warmest and the lightest) and for this I have a couple suggestions---Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends. These 2 have the best warmest and lightest bags and some of the best down pants, jackets and parkas available.

You won't laugh at the cold but you'll be out in it when all others are at home suckling on the thermostat teat. And if you sleep cold, wear a good merino balaclava under a decent fleece hat and sleep in your Icebreaker merino bottoms and a merino zipneck top. You'll need 2 Icebreaker tops sandwiched together, a 320 on top and a 260 underneath. The thumbhole sleeves make all the difference. All this crap is expensive if you only go out once a year, but if you pull 2 weeks in December, 3 weeks in January and 3 weeks in February you'll sell semen and a left testicle along with both butt cheeks to get this stuff. I know cuz I have.

Tipi Walter

Tom Murphy
11-21-2012, 09:39
read the pdf file at wintercampers.com

written for the Northeast but worth your time

MuddyWaters
11-21-2012, 11:42
Your approach will be different for a longer trip where you must be prepared for possible weather conditions, and a shorter trip of about a week max where you can pretty much depend on the weather forecast and decide go-or-no go.

I really like reading Tipi's trip reports, but he does actively seek out the worst conditions to go out in, for several weeks at a time.

It is possible to pick a week of clear mild weather as well. I suspect most that use 3-season gear in the southeast in winter, do just that. Of course there are always a few that push the limits whether intentionally, or thru ignorance.

Feral Bill
11-21-2012, 12:11
1. White gas stove. Cartriges do not like cold.
2. Light wool scarf. Best ounce in your pack.
3. Mittens. Vastly warmer than gloves. Surplus trigger finger shells with wool liners are excellent and cheap.
4. What Tipi Walter said, less the down pants. Surplus wool pants are plenty warm and cheap, and resist wetness, but are heavier.
5. Warm footwear. I'm not sure the ideal item exists. Bring plenty of socks to change often.

prain4u
11-21-2012, 13:17
For me, the key to winter hiking is using layers. layers, layers of clothing--including a good base layer both on top and bottom. Some people wear good-old fashioned long johns for a base layer. Problem is they are heavy and often made of cotton. As the saying goes "cotton kills" (when it is wet). Get something similar to "long johns" but made of of the new materials that--ideally--have "wicking" qualities to draw away the perspiration.

With my layers--I do like wool and down layers.

How many layers--and what those layers are--will depend upon the predicted temperatures and the predicted precipitation. Tipi Walter has great ideas. MAYBE a bit of overkill in SOME regions of the AT--but great ideas. Personally, I like to have enough of the right stuff--so that I am safe and fairly comfortable--even if the weather forecast is wrong and it gets dangerously cold/wet/windy. You maybe don't need Tipi Walters setup--but PLEASE do not try to be a minimalist when it comes to winter camping and try to simply get by with the "bare minimum". Be prepared for weather far worse than is forecast--just in case--and have sleeping gear and clothing that will get you through temperatures far colder than predicted.

Let me share some basic winter camping principles (from my perspective).

1) Try to avoid perspiring. Layer your clothing and add or subtract layers often--in order to keep comfortable without perspiring. Perspiration is what really makes you cold and detracts from the insulating value of your layers once they become "damp". What you wear when you are moving and hiking might be far less than what you wear on breaks or in camp. I find that I often will shed layers pretty quickly within the first half-hour of hiking in the morning--as I begin to warm up. I might even stop 1-2 times in that first half hour. REMEMBER: If you wait too long to shed layers you will perspire too much and get cold. (I like layers with zippers that I can open and close to help regulate heat). I often have a fleece or knit "wool" cap (or even a balaclava) for cold hiking and for sleeping. However, to prevent overheating on my head--I also use just earmuffs or a headband when hiking. (I have a "buff" that can serve as a hat, headband, balaclava, or "scarf" for my neck--in all but the coldest temps. Great, lightweight, versatile, piece of gear).

2) I make sure that I try to stay dry and that I have enough dry clothes to switch into if I do happen to get wet from the weather or from perspiring. I personally carry an extra "base layer" to get into at camp or at bedtime or if everything else gets wet.

3) Keeping your feet dry is important. Have the right footgear and enough changes of socks to keep you feet dry and warm.

4) Having enough insulation UNDER you when you are sleeping is the key to warmth. (A thick sleeping bag does little to help in this regard. When you are in the sleeping bag, you crush the "loft" of the materials underneath you and you lose much of their insulating value). Some people use special, heavy duty, 4 season sleeping pads. I prefer to combine a closed-cell foam pad and an air pad. (However, as has already been mentioned, sometimes the pads tend to shift and slide if you use two pads and an airpad has virtually no insulating value if develops a major leak)

5) Eating enough food and eating frequently is important in winter hiking. Calories burning is the key to generating body heat to staying warm. I will often eat a "significant" snack before bed time--often heavy in protein. I will also eat some soup or something warm on some occasions close to bedtime. I find that eating something late helps me stay warm overnight.

6) Water freezes. That is a fact of cold weather camping. Be prepared for your water supply to freeze. You may have to thaw water before you can use it. So, be prepared to be without water until some thaws. Some people pour some water into a cooking pot the night before so they just have to put the pot on a stove in morning and they do not try to first get water out of a frozen water bottle. (That works well until a human, an animal or the wind knocks over the kettle. Be careful where you put the kettle). Camelback sort of water bladders can become virtually useless when tubing and valves freeze. They can be "tricky" to use in cold weather. When it comes to keeping water from freezing, some people heat water before bed and put it in water bottles and then put those bottles of hot water in their sleeping bag with them. It DOES keep you warm and it does help to keep water from freezing--but is REALLY bad if the water container leaks and soaks you and your sleeping gear. (Sleeping around the bottles can be also uncomfortable in some small sleeping bags).

7) People often underestimate their ability to become dehydrated and/or sunburned in winter. Drinking fluids and using sunscreen are sometimes even MORE important in winter hikes

Tipi Walter
11-23-2012, 08:16
I am very much interesting about winter hiking, I never try it. This time I want to do it. Is there any training classes will be there about the awareness of winter hiking? Could you please produce some more attachments about the topic for view detail information.



trekking in nepal (http://www.notjusttreks.com/)
everest base camp (http://www.notjusttreks.com/nepal/everest-base-camp-trekking.html/)

Here's something anyone at home can do, or at least most people can do if they have a porch or a deck or a front or back yard---Sleep out every night in the winter months. This little technique works wonders for both newbs and old hands alike as it teaches newbs what it feels like to sleep on a backpacking pad (which takes some getting used to) and if the pad is warm enough (Rvalue), and it also proves the warmth value of their sleeping bags. It also gives the old hands their required and mandatory and all important bag nights.

You can either do it with a bedroll on the ground or in a tent or under a tarp or even in a hammock if you have some trees. So, if you want to know what's it like to go out in the winter, sleeping out at home is a first big step. And if it snows, so much the better. In fact, I just came in the house 20 minutes ago after sleeping out in the backyard on my Exped downmat and under my down sleeping bag. I wore two hats, my Patagonia balaclava and a Turtle Fur "tuque" over that. My "pajamas" were a set of Icebreaker merino tops and bottoms.

Any poor motard can sleep indoors---but backpackers crave their bag nights and must get out every night. Why suckle the teat of the indoor thermostat?

Tinker
11-23-2012, 09:30
Here's something anyone at home can do, or at least most people can do if they have a porch or a deck or a front or back yard---Sleep out every night in the winter months. This little technique works wonders for both newbs and old hands alike as it teaches newbs what it feels like to sleep on a backpacking pad (which takes some getting used to) and if the pad is warm enough (Rvalue), and it also proves the warmth value of their sleeping bags. It also gives the old hands their required and mandatory and all important bag nights.

You can either do it with a bedroll on the ground or in a tent or under a tarp or even in a hammock if you have some trees. So, if you want to know what's it like to go out in the winter, sleeping out at home is a first big step. And if it snows, so much the better. In fact, I just came in the house 20 minutes ago after sleeping out in the backyard on my Exped downmat and under my down sleeping bag. I wore two hats, my Patagonia balaclava and a Turtle Fur "tuque" over that. My "pajamas" were a set of Icebreaker merino tops and bottoms.

Any poor motard can sleep indoors---but backpackers crave their bag nights and must get out every night. Why suckle the teat of the indoor thermostat?


VERY sound advice (with a smart little quip at the end ;)).

TRY IT AT HOME FIRSTis always my mantra (self-imposed, by the way). Better an uncomfortable night with a quick escape than a life threatening one miles from your vehicle.

Clothing - I resisted the urge to go out and buy the newest, highest tech shelled, manmade fiber stuffed, miracle garment and still use good ol' cheapo (but heavier) fleece. Its loft is completely unaffected by even a dunk in the river (of course it won't be warm when soaking wet), and you can wring it out without damaging the garment or crushing the fibers. You can put an ultralight hooded windbreaker over it and have the same warmth of one of those wundersweaters, and if it gets warmer you can quickly remove the windbreaker for better breathability (can't do that with a jacket which relies on an outer and inner shell to stay in one piece - btw: no liner is needed for a fleece garment, so you make up a little of the weight deficit there). There's nothing that dries as fast as fleece, either - the wind can blow right through it (if there isn't a sewn-on shell).
Underwear: Your choice of wool (merino - other wools can be itchy) or polyester. Polypropylene is still around, but tends to melt in a hot clothes dryer.
Pants: The same long nylon pants or zip-offs you use in the other months will work. In extremely cold weather you can layer long johns under them. If snow, sleet, or rain are in the forecast you might want to either bring a second pair or rain pants, depending on the length of your hike.
Socks: Wool blend, pick your brand. I like Smartwools, but have tried Darn Tough and like them better.
Shell: Something waterproof and something breathable. Waterproof/Breathable garments are most breathable when it's dry and cold and when it's wet they aren't terribly breathable (why do you think that so many of them have huge pit zips or core vents ;)).
Glove shell - In wet, cold weather, your hands will thank you if you keep your insulated gloves dry. Shells must extend up inside the arms of waterproof jacket or water will run down your arms inside the mitt (same goes for gaiters for your shoes/boots).

Duhh - almost forgot - HAT. I always bring a balaclava for walking (lightweight) and sometimes bring a second one for camp (to keep the inside of the hood of my jacket away from my oily hair and just in case I lose the first one). When the warmth on my head isn't needed I often slip it down around my neck (works for my bicycling and motorcycling as well).

Last edit for this post (I have to get to work!).

Do some investigating into the use of vapor barriers. They can be life savers and work especially well on feet and hands (use simple vinyl exam gloves under your regular gloves, and try bread bags under your socks before you buy expensive nylon VBL (vapor barrier liner) socks.
I've had some amazing results using Stephenson Warmlite VBL socks. I'll tell you about them sometime.

MuddyWaters
11-23-2012, 11:42
At home only works if it very cold where you live. Unless you live up north, or at 4000-5000', its pretty likely you may not quite get down to the temps you could experience in the southeastern mountains.

I will offer if you do sleep out at home, dont sleep on a trampoline. Much colder than on the ground with the same gear. Dont ask how I know this.

oldbear
11-23-2012, 12:31
OP
To add my two cents to all of the great advice that you've received so far
You will probably need a much bigger pack to hold all of your bigger , heavier more of winter gear
When you buy the pack think about it's ability to lash things like an ice axe , crampons , ski poles , snow shoes and skis onto
Think about how all of your gear will operate when you try to use your cold fingers on it. Modify your gear as needed
I great fan of using a Svea 123 stove in cold weather bc once you get the Zen of them worked out they're beyond reliable
Having said that ; all gasoline stoves in really cold weather starting will sputter and kick and flare up until they right themselves and establish their always comforting blow torch whoooooosh sound : Do yourself a favor and don't have anything combustible too close to them during their start up phase.
btw Cold gasoline stove start ups is something else that you can practice at home
You say that you have a sleeping bag : Is there enough room at it's foot to fit all of the -cannot let these things freeze - that you're going to have to put down there . Things like your boots , your water bottles , anything battery operated
Somebody mentioned dehydration and it's a point worth remembering bc cold dry air will suck water out of you at a surprisingly rapid rate
Start the day hydrated and then drink water on schedule not by degree of thirst . If you keep your water next to you it not only stays liquid But as warmer liquid it has less of a negative effect on your core temp than drinking 34 F water does.

JAK
11-23-2012, 14:04
Lots of good advice. It's been said but I will say it a different way. You don't have to go as far in winter for things to get fun, or interesting.
So when testing things out, find a good road that goes into some snow conditions, and stay close to your car, or have numerous exit points.
Even as you gain more confidence, trails don't need to be as long in winter, and multiple exit points will allow you to go father with less risk.
Also there are numerous ways to get wet and cold in winter. It happens. Still better to have one set of good clothes than two-three sets of bad.

JAK
11-23-2012, 14:09
Other reason to stay close to car, or some other form of safety, like a cabin, is so you can play in the snow and see what it is like to get wet, really test yourself and your gear. Take the plunge. Same as with kayaking, how do you know if you can self-rescue or if your clothing is warm enough if you aren't willing to capsize and get wet. Same with snow. Dive in. Build a snow shelter. Build a snowman. Go icefishing. Whatever. But have an exit strategy.

Malto
11-23-2012, 16:02
There is a huge question that has to be asked in order to answer this question. That is are you planning on hiking then sleeping or is your plan to hike in, hang around camp then sleep? This is critical because it will significantly change the gear you need. Tipi has solid advice if you plan on hanging around camp but overkill if you do trips like mine where I'm either walking or sleeping. On trips like that you can get away with a lot less. But it will be wholly inadequate if you try hanging around. I can tell you that from. cold personal experience. Gear that I would consider "hanging around gear" is down pants, down booties and even heavier down jackets.

Duramax22
11-28-2012, 13:33
ok i have done some more research, shopping and cam up with this

Baselayer- underarmour 3.0 coldgear pants and smartwool NTS midweight top

Hiking gear- upper-baselayer,columbia polyester hoody, marmot polyester t-shirt, rain coat
lower-baselayer, gaitors, and addidas shorts
head- carhartt beenie

Camp- any combination of above listed plus a marmot ares down jacket and marmot pants

Have yet to purchase any gloves? any recommendations?

Feral Bill
11-28-2012, 14:07
ok i have done some more research, shopping and cam up with this

Baselayer- underarmour 3.0 coldgear pants and smartwool NTS midweight top

Hiking gear- upper-baselayer,columbia polyester hoody, marmot polyester t-shirt, rain coat
lower-baselayer, gaitors, and addidas shorts
head- carhartt beenie

Camp- any combination of above listed plus a marmot ares down jacket and marmot pants

Have yet to purchase any gloves? any recommendations? Some sort of wind pants are needed.

peakbagger
11-28-2012, 16:01
Up in nH i long ago came to the conclusion that I would much rather dayhike than winter backpack, the amount of gear required for winter camping is heavy. Base camping isnt bad if I can drag a sled or do day hikes out of a cabin with minimal heat

Bati
11-28-2012, 23:21
Have yet to purchase any gloves? any recommendations?

Try a thin pair of polypro liner gloves and a heavier pair of semi-waterproof mittens. You'll want the liners so that you can do "technical" tasks like setting up a tent or starting a stove without your fingers freezing to the metal. But to keep you hands warm, wear thicker mittens over them, as mittens are much better for actually keeping your fingers warm. I have a pair of neoprene-like mittens that worked well for me as they kept my liner gloves dry when I was hiking; sometimes I wear fleece or wool mittens instead but I find they're not as waterproof if I''m frequently in contact with snow. You'll probably spend more time grabbing tree trunks or branches in the winter to aid in balance, so your hands will may have more contact with snow than you might think.

hikerhobs
12-08-2012, 22:10
Tipi walter and tinker have really good advice, my advice stay dry!

Papa D
12-08-2012, 22:26
Wool& Down,don't get wet....

I love this response - - so basic and true - but I'll add a bit"

most hiking days in NC in the winter (assuming you are moving) will require no more than a long sleeve t-shirt, a fleece cap, rain pants, trail runners and wool socks - - this clothing combination (again, assuming you are moving) will take you into temps in the high 30s.

at night, you'll need to change into dry, non sweaty camp clothes which would normally include" top / bottom patagonia fleece long johns, wool or fleece sweater, a down jacket, and a stocking cap.

also, you'll want a sleeping bag rated for at least 15 degrees warmer than the expected temperatures, so if it's going to be in the 20s you need at least a 5 degree sleeping bag (just go for a zero degree down bag for most winter in NC)

also, OBVIOUSLY you'll have your rain jacket and other essentials.

SassyWindsor
12-08-2012, 23:50
Layer with synthetics, maybe a wool sweater over this, light rain suit. liner gloves under GTX mittens. GTX balaclava and maybe under some type hat. Full leather boots, treated with aquaseal and/or sno-seal. GTX boots also OK, due to cold weather.

minkypinky
12-11-2012, 02:49
I am not much in to winter hiking. It is risky. But for this season I am planning to join with my friends for winter hiking. I hope I will not face any bad experiences.