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Tinker
11-29-2012, 11:59
They ain't all that bad :cool:.

I did the northernmost section (Lehigh Gap to Del. Water Gap) in the past three days.

To those headed for Pa. in the future a warning.....the southernmost part of the AT in New Jersey has some of Pa. beat for rocks (I can say that having done both states recently).

I think that most of the complaints come from thruhikers or speed hikers who are used to 20+ mpd. Slowpokes like me have few worries, and none that a sturdy pair of low cut hikers can't take care of.:)

Happy hiking - just take it easy on the AT as it passes through northern Pa. and the southern part of western NJ.

Now on to Md. and southward...........

brian039
11-29-2012, 12:07
I think you're right on about the rocks. I hated them but I bet if I wasn't on a thru-hike they wouldn't have been a big deal, I think they just slow you down more than anything and if you're trying to hike to fast you'll stub your toe on them.

Namaste
11-29-2012, 12:12
I agree about the rocks not being so bad here in PA. I hike it all the time because I live closeby. I just appreciate that I have the trail close enough to enjoy whenever I get the urge. Happy hiking....I loved Maryland....southbound views into Harpers Ferry are beautiful.

Cookerhiker
11-29-2012, 12:15
Agree with both of you - what makes the PA rocks a PITA is they prevent you from striding on what otherwise is mostly-level terrain. Parts of the trail are even rockier in NH but they're in conjunction with 2-3,000' ascents & descents.

Train Wreck
11-29-2012, 12:56
Well, I respectfully disagree with all of you. I hiked all of PA in sections over 5 years time starting at Pen Mar always heading north. Past Duncannon nothing but rocks of one type or another. The area around Blue Mt. Was nothing but a river of rocks, the
rest of the state just full of sharp, tilted, painful, foot hurting roggreecks. I wasn't speed hiking or carrying an overloaded pack and I had proper footwear. Every night my feet throbbed after hiking all day. Hasn't been the case anywhere else.

I do agree with you about that part of NJ, though.:)

Train Wreck
11-29-2012, 12:58
Not sure what a roggreet is :o
Smart phone user error!

Lone Wolf
11-29-2012, 12:59
if it ain't rocks, hikers will snivel about somethin' else

Karma13
11-29-2012, 13:03
I absolutely loathe the Pennsylvania rocks. I haven't done a thru-hike, but for my day hikes, I find them absolutely horrible. Rolled ankles, they kill my shoes, they require headache-inducing concentration about where I'm planting my feet... and if you happen to hit them on one of those 100-degree days, they're also treacherously slippery.

I understand that the terrain is much worse elsewhere, but I do find them pretty bad.

Train Wreck
11-29-2012, 13:04
if it ain't rocks, hikers will snivel about somethin' else
............

Owwww! :D

moose717
11-29-2012, 13:07
I did my first section hike ever from dwg to culver's gap the weekend before hurricane Sandy. I'm glad I probably hit the worst rocks first! After Sunfish Pond every other word out of my mouth was these f'in rocks :). Look forward to doing more of NJ in January and when I'm done with the great garden state it's on to PA.

FarmerChef
11-29-2012, 13:12
Not sure what a roggreet is :o
Smart phone user error!

Cursed be the roggreets!!! Wha? :p

I have hiked MD, PA and NJ almost always northbound and have to say that I couldn't wait to get out of PA (and Southern NJ - much agreed there). I had proper footwear, a minimalist pack and everyone in our family who hiked them always had stubbed toes, throbbing pads, rolled ankles and a hard night's sleep. That said there are a few nice rock-free or almost rock-free sections in southern PA that we enjoyed very much. I'll also offer up that it's not the rocks themselves that are the problem. It's that everyone single dang one of them is pointed straight up and sharp.

I would now like to complain about the mountains being too high in New Hampshire and the hills being too small in MD. Ahem...

tdoczi
11-29-2012, 13:39
aside from the shore of sunfish pond theres nowhere in NJ with rocks that compare to whats in PA around wind gap or so. ive heard this claimed before and ive never understood it, and i still dont. nj is dirt with lots of rock jumbled up in it, PA is walking on a field of nothing but rocks. aside from the aforementioned sunfish pond area there is nowhere of any notable length in nj where you just walk on constant unbroken rock for miles.

Slo-go'en
11-29-2012, 13:48
What drove me crazy about PA was the trail would follow a nice gravel road along the ridge line, then for no apparent reason, it would detour to a boulder field for 1/2 mile or so, then it would be on the gravel road again. The worst part is it would do this 3-4 times a day. Oh well, I suppose they have to do that, otherwise you might not see any rattle snakes :)

Spirit Bear
11-29-2012, 14:50
What drove me crazy about PA was the trail would follow a nice gravel road along the ridge line, then for no apparent reason, it would detour to a boulder field for 1/2 mile or so, then it would be on the gravel road again. The worst part is it would do this 3-4 times a day. Oh well, I suppose they have to do that, otherwise you might not see any rattle snakes :)

Speaking of snakes, are there tons of snakes around the rocks in PA?

Karma13
11-29-2012, 14:57
Yeah, you see them once in a while in the warmer weather. (For instance, there's a cave down below the Pinnacle, and there are sometimes copperheads there.) It's another thing that can slow a hiker down -- constantly watching where you put your feet and your poles. I'm always consciously watching out for snakes and poison ivy.

Cookerhiker
11-29-2012, 14:58
aside from the shore of sunfish pond theres nowhere in NJ with rocks that compare to whats in PA around wind gap or so. ive heard this claimed before and ive never understood it, and i still dont. nj is dirt with lots of rock jumbled up in it, PA is walking on a field of nothing but rocks. aside from the aforementioned sunfish pond area there is nowhere of any notable length in nj where you just walk on constant unbroken rock for miles.

Thanks - I thought I was the only one who felt that the only rocky part of NJ where the footing was tricky was Sunfish Pond.


Speaking of snakes, are there tons of snakes around the rocks in PA?

I hiked all of PA east of the Susquehanna River i.e. the rockiest part in prime snake season but never saw a one. That doesn't mean they're not there.

leaftye
11-29-2012, 15:06
Why does this make me want to go out with a couple single jacks (http://www.yardproduct.com/images/hammers.jpg) and make some crush (http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/crusher/rock/crush7lres.jpg)?

RED-DOG
11-29-2012, 15:17
I didn't mind the PA rocks or the rocks in NJ on either one of my Thru-Hikes, it seems like when I started in GA and by the time I got to PA I kinda floated right across them, i did 25+ MPD in PA and through out the Mid-Atlantic states. RED-DOG

swjohnsey
11-29-2012, 15:36
The rocks in New Jersey and southern New York are definately worse.

Malto
11-29-2012, 15:38
I just hiked NJ through SNP (twice) since I moved up to PA in May. I agree completely about the excessive whining about the PA Rocks. Yes, there are some rocky sections but there are miles and miles of perfectly flat decent trail that you can absolutely fly down. I have even trail run multiple sections of the trail North of Duncannon.

I think one reason that people hurt so much from the rocks is in the technicique, DON'T STEP ON POINTY ROCKS! We have taught ourselves for years to step on high points, think about crossing a stream. But I learned the hard way years ago in Yosemite on trail that they paved in pointy rock not to step on the points. My feet were a hurting mess. It took a very conscious effort to avoid doing this but having learned that lesson I wasn't bothered by my hometown rocks.

Spirit Bear
11-29-2012, 15:57
Any good pics of the PA rocks?

Malto
11-29-2012, 16:00
Look at the two contrasting picture in Swami's blog, the first great trail, the second pile of rocks is also trail.

http://www.thehikinglife.com/journal/2012/11/at-days-34-to-36-malto/

Karma13
11-29-2012, 16:09
Here are some pics of the various levels of rockiness. It's the giant rock scrambles that I don't like. And the rock rivers.

http://thumperwalk.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/pennsylvania-rocks/

tdoczi
11-29-2012, 16:15
Here are some pics of the various levels of rockiness. It's the giant rock scrambles that I don't like. And the rock rivers.

http://thumperwalk.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/pennsylvania-rocks/

the sort of stuff in the third picture down is what drives me crazy and what i think of when i think of PA rocks. if anyone who claims NJ is rockier than PA can find me a picture of trail that looks like that in NJ taken not at sunfish pond i want to see it and hear where it is.

Cookerhiker
11-29-2012, 16:15
Ah Whiteblaze - don't you just love the range of contradictory experiences and advice here?:D

joshuasdad
11-29-2012, 16:23
Look at the two contrasting picture in Swami's blog, the first great trail, the second pile of rocks is also trail.

http://www.thehikinglife.com/journal/2012/11/at-days-34-to-36-malto/

Pretty sure that pile of rocks is the Knife Edge, which is not typical of the PA trail. That section overall is not that bad for rocks, as there is a fair amount of forest road walking, especially near road crossings.

That being said, PA is much worse than NJ (except for near Sunfish Pond). RIP boots...

FarmerChef
11-29-2012, 16:25
Ahh yes the "rock rivers". I remember those and looking off to the right or left and wondering why we couldn't just go over there :p Of course, I realize that the rocks don't erode nearly as fast. Still doesn't mean I like walking on 'em. :o

tdoczi
11-29-2012, 16:27
Ahh yes the "rock rivers". I remember those and looking off to the right or left and wondering why we couldn't just go over there :p Of course, I realize that the rocks don't erode nearly as fast. Still doesn't mean I like walking on 'em. :o


hah reminds me of an article i read somewhere once. the author was going on his first hike, in PA on the AT. he says he stood on the trail and looked around the woods around him and asked his friend "why did they collect all the rocks and pile them up on the trail?"

The Solemates
11-29-2012, 17:13
the rocks in PA arent localized to the AT. the mid state trail has its share as well. see the latest post in my blog below.

1azarus
11-29-2012, 17:15
Pennsylvania rocks were meant to encourage hikers to learn to hike in around 6 inches of snow. There is no better time of year than winter to hike that fine state... better views and smooth walking.

atmilkman
11-29-2012, 17:42
Is the state refered to as Rockylvania or Rocksylvania?

jeffmeh
11-29-2012, 18:30
Why does this make me want to go out with a couple single jacks (http://www.yardproduct.com/images/hammers.jpg) and make some crush (http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/crusher/rock/crush7lres.jpg)?

Hard to resist the urge to make the big ones into little ones? ;)

jeffmeh
11-29-2012, 18:34
All the cool kids who grew up hiking the Whites report that the PA rocks are seriously overrated, as is the VA rollercoaster. Come to think of it, this is a pretty crotchety group.

Wise Old Owl
11-29-2012, 18:35
Speaking of snakes, are there tons of snakes around the rocks in PA?

Most people trip over the snakes and never actually observe them. Train Wreck is right - its south of Hamburg that gives PA the name.


Any good pics of the PA rocks?http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/1/5/5/2/parock.jpg

Datto
11-29-2012, 18:39
I've never met a Pennsylvania rock that a good sized face couldn't stop.


Datto

brian039
11-29-2012, 18:51
Most people trip over the snakes and never actually observe them. Train Wreck is right - its south of Hamburg that gives PA the name.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/1/5/5/2/parock.jpg

Those are the ones I have nightmares about. The rock piles weren't a problem at all, you can just walk on top of them.

Double Wide
11-29-2012, 19:19
As far as seeing snakes on the rocky parts, I don't mind 'em at all, as long as I see them before they see me. Every time I'm out in the woods, I take at least one break where I rest long enough to slow down my breathing enough to not be making any noise, and then I inevitably wonder how many animals were watching me right at that moment.

Mr Breeze
11-29-2012, 19:45
I grew up hiking the Whites and thought the PA rocks would be nothing. But they were definitely the most miserable section of the trail. The VA rollercoaster i will agree is highly overrated, but the rocks are not. My feet were on fire at the end of each day from the seemingly endless minefields of potentially ankle breaking rocks.

kayak karl
11-29-2012, 19:52
im heading up to pinnacle peak next week. i know the rocks have been there since '65, but i keep going back :)

Cookerhiker
11-29-2012, 20:03
To reiterate what I've said every time the PA rocks comes up (which is too often): the rockfield in Central Virginia between Bailey Gap shelter and Wind Rock (north of Pearisburg) is as horrendous as anything in PA.

Lone Wolf
11-29-2012, 20:10
rocks schmocks. it's just walkin'. slow down

fredmugs
11-30-2012, 13:27
To reiterate what I've said every time the PA rocks comes up (which is too often): the rockfield in Central Virginia between Bailey Gap shelter and Wind Rock (north of Pearisburg) is as horrendous as anything in PA.

????? I section hiked the James River to Pearisburg SOBO and don't remember any of it being difficult or particularly rocky. I do remember a rainy day walking along a rock face that was slippery but that's about it.

fredmugs
11-30-2012, 13:31
Too much of this in PA for me but it's not as bad as, say, going NOBO down Mt Washington.

18274

leaftye
11-30-2012, 13:38
Hard to resist the urge to make the big ones into little ones? ;)

Makes me feel like Hulk, plus it may be useful training if I ever go to prison.

Train Wreck
11-30-2012, 13:51
rocks schmocks. it's just walkin'. slow down

*sniveling*
My feet hurt!

Cookerhiker
11-30-2012, 13:58
????? I section hiked the James River to Pearisburg SOBO and don't remember any of it being difficult or particularly rocky. I do remember a rainy day walking along a rock face that was slippery but that's about it.

It wasn't just me - I noted many entries in the Pine Swamp shelter log from SOBOers complaining about the rocks. And out of curiosity, I looked trail journals of the previous year's NOBOs and observed quite a few comments about them.

Here's a sample from one of the 2012 TJs: "...There was a mile of very rocky trail after Baily Gap Shelter and that was uncomfortable...."

And this is from someone I met when section-hiking in '04: "...The rocks were killers on our feet; we clambered more than three miles through boulder fields. We were truly worn out and opted to stay at War Spur shelter..."

tdoczi
11-30-2012, 14:04
It wasn't just me - I noted many entries in the Pine Swamp shelter log from SOBOers complaining about the rocks. And out of curiosity, I looked trail journals of the previous year's NOBOs and observed quite a few comments about them.

Here's a sample from one of the 2012 TJs: "...There was a mile of very rocky trail after Baily Gap Shelter and that was uncomfortable...."

its all relative, especially when looking at the opinion of nobos who are still down south. when i hiked SNP last summer i was at a shelter with a bunch of nobos and one who nobo who for some reason or another had flipped and was hiking the park sobo. he was warning them all about how terribly rocky the northern end of the park was, really talking it up. i suspected it wasnt as bad as he thought by a long shot based on what ive heard and having seen the trail around front royal before. sure enough, i got up there and basically he seemed to think the trail containing some small bits of somethign that wasnt dirt made it incredibly rocky. i would love to know what his reaction to seeing PA or NH was. i doubt if he ever sees SNP again hed think of it as being incredibly rocky.

that stretch in VA youre talking about (ive never seen it) is probably very rocky to nobos and nothing to a sobo.

FarmerChef
11-30-2012, 14:19
It wasn't just me - I noted many entries in the Pine Swamp shelter log from SOBOers complaining about the rocks. And out of curiosity, I looked trail journals of the previous year's NOBOs and observed quite a few comments about them.

Here's a sample from one of the 2012 TJs: "...There was a mile of very rocky trail after Baily Gap Shelter and that was uncomfortable...."

And this is from someone I met when section-hiking in '04: "...The rocks were killers on our feet; we clambered more than three miles through boulder fields. We were truly worn out and opted to stay at War Spur shelter..."

:whining: But those rocks were flat. Small but flat. :waaahh:

Tinker
11-30-2012, 14:25
There's a stretch south of the 501 shelter, if I remember correctly (good luck with that one! :D) that had rocks for about 1/4 mi. nonstop. Other than that, there was the Knife Edge (a wimpy outcrop which was more of a slab walk than an ankle breaker) and Wolf Rocks (which I did this week, in the snow), which was slippery, and the only place that I was concerned with getting a possible crippling injury. As I stated in my first post, it's possible that folks get used to a pace, and the rocks break the pace up, slowing you down in sections, or the trail will actually hurt you if you fight it. Work with the rocks, and "Use the Force" (in this case, your eyes and common sense - slow down)..........(and I'll add my own ending).........young (or old) rockwalker.

All I can say is that the HYPE waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out did the rocks, in Pa.

Now, the rhododendrons dumping snow down my back on the way off Mt. Minsi, THAT I could have done without! :D

Tinker
11-30-2012, 14:27
Btw: Georgia was easy ;).

tdoczi
11-30-2012, 14:30
There's a stretch south of the 501 shelter, if I remember correctly (good luck with that one! :D) that had rocks for about 1/4 mi. nonstop.


you dont remember correctly. south of rt 501 is one of the most rockless stretches in northern PA. frankly, theres nothing noteworthy for being especially rocky from port clinton to cove mountain south of duncannon. peters mountain is a bit of a pain in the butt but i dont know if i'd blame that on it being rocky in the sense i think most people i mean.... messy is how i would describe it.

Angle
11-30-2012, 14:37
The rocks in PA are bad but IMHO the fact that there are around 230 miles in PA, most hikers come through when it is hot and humid, their feet are already sore and shoes worn out, adds to the legend that the rocks are terrible. Having just finished NJ (only 72 miles of trail) and gone as far North as the Hudson River I would say those states have their share of rocks also. Hit the trail on a nice crisp fall morning with rested feet and a good pair of shoes and the rocks seem to disappear.

Iceman

Tinker
11-30-2012, 14:50
shoes worn out,

Thanks, Angle. That is something I hadn't thought too much about. Truth is, my Merrill Moabb Ventilators are ready for the trash and I did the last section in the snow (using Seal Skinz - not exactly dry, but warm enough), and the only problem I had was traction in the white stuff. Before Port Clinton I had used Asics trail runners (the cheapest ones that Sports Authority sold), and they were fine. After Port Clinton I switched to the Merrill shoes, which I used daily for work since last November, and which saw the rest of the trail to the DWG without incident - decent, light, well ventilated (duh!) shoes. If they fit you, I highly recommend them. (If they don't, find something else and don't blame me because you took my opinionated word :p).

Tinker
11-30-2012, 14:59
you dont remember correctly. south of rt 501 is one of the most rockless stretches in northern PA. frankly, theres nothing noteworthy for being especially rocky from port clinton to cove mountain south of duncannon. peters mountain is a bit of a pain in the butt but i dont know if i'd blame that on it being rocky in the sense i think most people i mean.... messy is how i would describe it.


Let's try that memory again - I remember a fairly long stretch of rocks which was a mile or so from a road in a high gap which had a restaurant about 100 yards to the left upon reaching the road. Where would that be?

Ok, the restaurant's owner was Kenny, and it was before Bake Oven Knob NOBO (Rte. 309, maybe?). The rocky section was before it (I just checked out my camera, which has a better memory than I do :D). It was not the Knife Edge or Bear Rocks. That was later, and the rocks were expected, so they weren't too hard to deal with.

tdoczi
11-30-2012, 15:09
Let's try that memory again - I remember a fairly long stretch of rocks which was a mile or so from a road in a high gap which had a restaurant about 100 yards to the left upon reaching the road. Where would that be?

Ok, the restaurant's owner was Kenny, and it was before Bake Oven Knob NOBO. The rocky section was before it (I just checked out my camera, which has a better memory than I do :D).

yup, up by bake oven knob has plenty of rocks : ) i remember hiking through there once when a band was playing at that restaurant or bar or whatever it is. you dont often hear live music playing somewhere in the near distance while out hiking.

joshuasdad
11-30-2012, 15:29
I have stayed at the B&B/restaurant at 309 so that I could get a head start on a nearly 20 mile section NOBO to Little Gap. Worst rock areas were, in order NOBO, Knife Edge (pretty short), Bake Oven Knob (over a mile), a few rock filled gaps/ridges, the infamous Lehigh Gap, and Little Gap. IMO, not the worst of the rocks in PA, as the intense rock portions are separated by easy flat portions.

peakbagger
11-30-2012, 16:47
I have hiked in the whites for 35 plus years. I wil take the rocks in the whites over PA anytime. In the whites when I rock hop, I have a 95% chance that the rock isnt going to move as they are rough and sort of "knit" together. When I sectioned northern PA, there were delightful rock free sections, but once on the rocks, I planned that 90% of the rocks I stepped on would move. I guess that and the general monotony in some sections where you hike all day in a green tunnel with no relief from the rocks made it less than pleasant.

Of course the trade off is in the whites when you do slip, many of the rocks act like cheese graters, while the PA rocks are smooth.

Tinker
11-30-2012, 16:50
In the Whites, when you fall down, often you fall D O W N. :eek:

LW said it best (as he often does, with a minimum of words): "rocks schmocks. it's just walkin'. slow down" :)

brian039
11-30-2012, 17:04
rocks schmocks. it's just walkin'. slow down

More like stumbling. :D

Del Q
12-01-2012, 09:45
Agree with Lone Wolf, there is always something..........hey we don't go out there and love the AT because it is a "walk in the park".

PA is where I am from and where I began my section hike..........North from Boiling Springs was a cake walk, then the rocks.

The good news is that PA is pretty flat, but the small rocks and millions of them just make it hard to get a good, steady pace going.

RED-DOG
12-01-2012, 11:50
Their's rocks from GA-ME yeah PA has its fair share of rocks but what are you going to do when you get to NH QUIT, stop WHINNING.

hal0ofwint3r
12-24-2012, 15:35
ha roggreets! they're so much a pain in PA that they're not just rocks, they're roggreets!

mrcoffeect
12-26-2012, 10:58
one thing about hiking PA. you'll know you wandered off the trail if your not hiking on rocks.

StylinLP38
12-26-2012, 11:55
"Pennsylvania Rocks is where shoes go do die" hehe
Does it still count if we just get a ride past all the rocks??? :)

qwerty
12-26-2012, 15:47
Rocks just take a different technique. I learned alot when I was in the Nepalese Himalaya a few years back, by watching the locals carrying 120lb loads wearing usually cheap 99-cent rubber flip-flops. You must choose each step wisely and always concentrate, like a poker or chess game. You can eventually build up different muscle groups by taking longer/weirder strides to reach the next "correct" rock spot, and once you get the rhythm and balance going, you can walk with a very steady pace if you so desire, but you can't rush through the rocks impatiently. And if you get fatigued, you will start slipping around and lose your rock zen, so take short 2-3 minute rests often, your eyes/brain also need those breaks.

Its not the rocks that worry me, its the snakes! You hear alot about them PA timber rattlers sitting hidden between rocks and logs on the trail. I am thinking about sectioning northern VA and PA up to DWG this year. My question is.... what are the best Spring months to avoid the snake heat!? I would guess mid-April through May?...

Malto
12-26-2012, 20:07
I just did northern va thru NA this year, much of it in the summer. Only snake I saw was one I almost stepped on night hiking in NJ. Insuspectthe snakes are overblown just like the rocks. Either that or I got lucky.

aficion
12-26-2012, 20:32
Its all Feng Shui, Karma, and trail flow. Failing to enjoy is the greatest impediment, usually followed by whining. Not speaking from actual experience of Pennsylvania, so a grain of salt is in order. I have negotiated more than my fair share of challenging footing in my short 57 years, and look forward to lots more.

qwerty
12-27-2012, 10:13
I don't think the snakes are overblown since every person I talk to who has hiked PA or adjacent states has almost stepped on one! But no one seems to get bit so why do I bother crying about snakes. I am hijacking thread so will quit with the snakes. I haven't hiked any PA yet but did the NJ and NY sections from DWG to Hudson and the rocks didn't seem too bad. I don't remember them being bad, I just remember beautiful trails and countrysides. I for one would kill for a section hike this year and do all of PA, give me those rocks!