What's wrong with a cheap Bic lighter?

[DrRichardCranium]

In wilderness survival shows they always use those magnesium sticks to start fires. On my hike I found a Bic lighter in the first shelter that lasted all the way to Maine and beyond. Why not just use a regular cigarette lighter for fires, instead of magnesium sticks, waterproof matches, steel wool & battery, etc.

[bamboo bob]

Nothing wrong at all, I think that's what most people use.

[Lone Wolf]

those shows are stupid. the AT ain't wilderness survival. Bic lighters are fine and all ya need

[Tipi Walter]

It's all I use but always carry two with the second one a mini Bic inside a protective container to keep the depress button from getting accidently pushed. One time I had a Bic lose all its gas when the button got pressed in my ditty bag.

[T.S.Kobzol]

I have never used a box lighter for outdoors. What's wrong with matches? :-)

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

[T.S.Kobzol]

Bic lighter

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

[FarmerChef]

Matches? I carry enough road flares for my trip. It gives you lots of time to get your fire started plus they work in the rain! :rolleyes:

Seriously, I carry both the firesteel and the lighters though I've switched to the full size over the mini. When my hands are cold, I have a hard time getting the flint wheel to spin. Most of the time I just use the firesteel to start my alcohol stove or campfire. With practice it's really easy and I don't have to worry about the gas running out. This is provided I can get my hand on some good dryer lint for tinder. Starts so fast you'll rethink that annual dryer vent cleaning. :eek:

[Tipi Walter]

Matches? I carry enough road flares for my trip. It gives you lots of time to get your fire started plus they work in the rain! :rolleyes:

Seriously, I carry both the firesteel and the lighters though I've switched to the full size over the mini. When my hands are cold, I have a hard time getting the flint wheel to spin. Most of the time I just use the firesteel to start my alcohol stove or campfire. With practice it's really easy and I don't have to worry about the gas running out. This is provided I can get my hand on some good dryer lint for tinder. Starts so fast you'll rethink that annual dryer vent cleaning. :eek:

You remind me to say I always pry off the child proof thingie put on Bic lighters as it seriously interferes with my thumb flicking a flame. Can't stand that little piece of useless metal. I haven't used matches since 1978 as they tend to get wet, even the protected ones, they often won't light and they throw nice little sparks out onto firm Thermarests.

[Tinker]

I use the lighter Bic lighter, the Mini Bic, when I can find them, rather than the big brother.

As with all lighters that use a wheel and flint (or similar striking material), if you get the wheel mechanism wet, it will sometimes (not always, though) fail to light. I have a Windmill lighter that I take as a backup in the winter. It's relatively heavy, but bombproof, and it's refillable. I just learned that there's a company which makes a needle that screws onto a typical stove canister, allowing you to fuel your refillable lighter with a better cold weather mixture of gas other than the straight butane usually offered as a bulk lighter refill.

Windmill lighter: http://www.moontrail.com/accessrs/a-windmill_lighter/windmill.html

I got mine here, free, when I bought my Hilleberg Akto tent.

As the link says, keep it in your pocket in extreme cold to ensure reliable use (the gas contracts in the cold, lowering internal pressure. It remains liquid and will not come out).

[leaftye]

For survival kit purposes, a firesteel is a good idea. A lighter has the potential to dry out over the years, although I think I've only seen one lighter dry out, but it's possible that someone else drained it and didn't throw it away. All of my lighters are at least a couple years old, and some are several times older.

In short, a lighter is just fine for a long hike.

[Mags]

Cause those survival shows want to "look cool" and a simple Bic lighter does not have the "Burly Mtn Man mystique"...

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6551577/man-vs-wild-rpg


For your viewing pleasure.. :)

[FarmerChef]

Interesting on the cold weather gas. On my last hike I discovered (I'm sure daily lighter users know this already) that butane just doesn't want to make a big flame when it's cold. So I had to walk with the lighter in my pocket as we got into camp just to get the gas warm enough to make a decent flame.

[Tipi Walter]

Cause those survival shows want to "look cool" and a simple Bic lighter does not have the "Burly Mtn Man mystique"...

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6551577/man-vs-wild-rpg


For your viewing pleasure.. :)

Talking about your burly mountain man mystique, check out the new replacement for Dual Survival---

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/11/30/exclusive-dual-survival-names-joseph-teti-its-new-military-survival-pro/

[Drybones]

A Bic lighter is what I use, also carry a backup.

[TheYoungOne]

I have a real small swedish fire steel as a backup in my daypack, but I usually just use bic lighters.

Some people need to look tactical, or make starting a fire more exciting. For me I just want to eat or get warm.

[FarmerChef]

Talking about your burly mountain man mystique, check out the new replacement for Dual Survival---

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/11/30/exclusive-dual-survival-names-joseph-teti-its-new-military-survival-pro/

What happened to Dave?

[Tipi Walter]

What happened to Dave?

No real idea. Here's a blurb---

http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2012/04/dual-survival-season-3-cast-changes.html

[Slo-go'en]

The Magnesium spark thrower will always work, while a lighter might not work when you need it the most. But most of us get away with a Bic lighter and always have a spare for when one fails or gets lost.

[msupple]

It's all I use but always carry two with the second one a mini Bic inside a protective container to keep the depress button from getting accidently pushed. One time I had a Bic lose all its gas when the button got pressed in my ditty bag.

Ouch! Murphy's at it's best. I'm guessing you had a spare?

Cat in the Hat

[vamelungeon]

As an ex smoker I've had bics let me down, but my firesteel always works. I don't care how it looks because I'm normally alone when I use it. Whatever works best for you, hyoh.

[atmilkman]

Cause those survival shows want to "look cool" and a simple Bic lighter does not have the "Burly Mtn Man mystique"..



Exactly. A bic lighter is just not macho. Or is it matcho. Matcho, matcho, man....I wanna be a matcho man.

[Hoofit]

Exactly. A bic lighter is just not macho. Or is it matcho. Matcho, matcho, man....I wanna be a matcho man.
I feel closer to a higher spirit when I'm out in the woods than I do in any building built by man....
But that's just me...
Whilst I'm here, I used your explanation of building a fire screen back in 2010 and it worked great for me so thanks!

[Wise Old Owl]

I heard if you remove the child protector off a Micro Bic - ya might be a Gram Weenie.....:rolleyes:

[hikerboy57]

of course theres nothing wrong with a cheap bic lighter. who would ever by an expensive bic lighter?

[Prime Time]

A Bic is my every day lighter. My backup is a Storm refillable butane lighter. It weighs about the same as a Bic, and it provides a windproof, turbo flame. On those cold, windy, wet days when your hands and the Bic aren't working well, it never fails. The reason I don't use it every day is the fuel doesn't last as long as a Bic, but it lasts plenty long to pick up another Bic at some point along the way.

[daddytwosticks]

I don't use a "Bic" lighter, standard or mini. I use the cheap generic ones in the multi-pack found at the check-out at Wal-Mart. Am I still cool? :)

[CarlZ993]

Mini-Bic w/ the lightest firesteel setup I can find as a backup.

Observation #1: Murphy's Law happens a lot.
Observation #2: Sometimes, Murphy is an optimist. :)

[Starchild]

It's OK but you need to realize its limitations. If it gets wet in won't work. I guess smokers have the advantage of how to use a BIC.

Fire is a important resource and could be critical in some situations. I sometimes carry 2 lighters, as I have made the mistake of allowing one to get wet while I try to ignite something, the backup I am much more careful with after realizing that I need to be. Though since switching to a Jetboil, electronic ignition has become my primary source of fire with the BIC a secondary.

Peace

[TJ aka Teej]

I reluctantly retired my Storm Proof Zippo about ten years back. Now I use a Bic with clear sides to see how much fuel is left.

[atmilkman]

I don't use a "Bic" lighter, standard or mini. I use the cheap generic ones in the multi-pack found at the check-out at Wal-Mart. Am I still cool? :)
Not cool. Not cool at all. You're in hike our hike dammit land. Get with the pro(gram). Get a bic. Mini bic at least.

[Sarcasm the elf]

In wilderness survival shows they always use those magnesium sticks to start fires. On my hike I found a Bic lighter in the first shelter that lasted all the way to Maine and beyond. Why not just use a regular cigarette lighter for fires, instead of magnesium sticks, waterproof matches, steel wool & battery, etc.

This has bugged me as well. I'm fairly clumsy and disorganized on the trail, so I usually have two or three mini-bics with me when hiking, just so I can find one when I need it. Aside from misplacing them, I've never had one fail. As others have said, keep them in your inside pocket when the temperatures are much below freezing.

It is funny, I've never figured out who it was that started this rumor that magnesium/fire steel sticks are always necessary. Over the years I've had several non-hikers tell me that I'm a fool for not carrying them.

[hikerboy57]

magnesium sticks are a great way to dull your knife edge.

[Sarcasm the elf]

magnesium sticks are a great way to dull your Bear Grylls Brand knife's edge.

Fixed that for you! :banana

[Wise Old Owl]

A whole lot of hellish truth right there.... !

[MuddyWaters]

The fire-steel is about indestructible, thats the only thing going for it.

I can carry several mini bic lighters, and waterproof matches backup for less than the wt of 1 firesteel.

[johnnybgood]

It amazes me how often I find good lighters while stopping for lunch at Shelters. Bic or generic brand , doesn't matter.

[OzJacko]

As a nonsmoker I only ever need any kind of lighter when hiking.
As I use alcohol stove I've found the standard cheap lighters are less than wonderful getting a flame into the bottom of the stove where the alcohol is.
I use a refilleable "blow torch" style lighter that I can point down into the stove. No idea the brand but it is still a light plastic lighter.
I do carry a firestick as backup (I do NOT want to find myself unable to light my stove) but the lighter is first choice for it's excellent results.
Both firestick and lighter live in my cookset stuff.
As I duplicate I will never be U/L but I will always have a hot drink.;)

[Sarcasm the elf]

It amazes me how often I find good lighters while stopping for lunch at Shelters. Bic or generic brand , doesn't matter.

See my comment about how I am absent minded and have to carry multiple backup lighters because of how often I lose them. Odds are you have found one of my lighters in you travels :).

[Dogwood]

In wilderness survival shows... Why not just use a regular cigarette lighter for fires, instead of magnesium sticks, waterproof matches, steel wool & battery, etc.

reliability, versatility, and possibly longevity. Consider the context in which these recommendations are made and the context of the shows. Not everyone always has access to a working mini bic lighter in survival situations. The ability to light a fire under various scenarios can be one of the top priorities in order to survive in some situations. As such, it's good practice knowing and having several different ways to light one. The AT isn't typically thought of as a place that requires hard core survivalist's skills either.

[MuddyWaters]

I heard if you remove the child protector off a Micro Bic - ya might be a Gram Weenie.....:rolleyes:

Or you might just want to make it easier to use, esp with forefinger when lighting an alcohol stove. Since they were made to be used vertically, when you turn sideways to light a stove, has a tendency to burn big wide thumbs.

[hikerboy57]

whats with the childproof thing anyway. why not just keep lighters away from children in the first place? i really cant remember a kid picking up a bic and tryiing to light it.i say we petition the good people at bic to remove the protective pita and market it as "adults only"

[Tipi Walter]

whats with the childproof thing anyway. why not just keep lighters away from children in the first place? i really cant remember a kid picking up a bic and tryiing to light it.i say we petition the good people at bic to remove the protective pita and market it as "adults only"

If you're offended by the Bic, you should check out most movies on television---they are heavily edited, probably against directors' wishes, and are made safe for Everyone---and therefore suitable to no one except 4 year olds.

[hikerboy57]

If you're offended by the Bic, you should check out most movies on television---they are heavily edited, probably against directors' wishes, and are made safe for Everyone---and therefore suitable to no one except 4 year olds.
i think we should remove the tines from forks so kids cant poke their eyes out accidentally.
as i get older i seem to be having more trouble with the childproof stuff.
and heinz ketchup in a squeeze bottle? kids will never understand the whole anticipation thing.
the times they are a changin

[Mr Breeze]

He released a statement saying that he wanted to spend more time with his family, and dedicate more time to his business.

[Rasty]

He released a statement saying that he wanted to spend more time with his family, and dedicate more time to his business.

He's not a politician so it's believable!

[Mr Breeze]

I never carry a lighter. Used a knife and magnesium stick on my thru this year. Using your knife correctly with the magnesium stick, you will never have to worry about a dull knife edge. Using a fixed blade knife, you should be using the top of the blade. Not the cutting edge.

[quilteresq]

I can't aim the bic down at the alcohol stove without burning my finger. I find the fire steel a lot easier. Just me - no fine motor strength in my first finger, which is how I'd have to hold it to light a stove. Besides, the fire steel is cool.

[MuddyWaters]

I can't aim the bic down at the alcohol stove without burning my finger. I find the fire steel a lot easier. Just me - no fine motor strength in my first finger, which is how I'd have to hold it to light a stove. Besides, the fire steel is cool.

A long time ago I took to dipping a blade of grass, or small twig in my alcohol , then lighting it, and using it to light the stove.
Works much better. Also lets me put the windscreen in place, then light the stove too if its breezy.

[Odd Man Out]

While the fire steel is more macho than the Bic, both pale in comparison to lighting strike anywhere matches against your crotch or teeth. That's what real men do.

[quilteresq]

A long time ago I took to dipping a blade of grass, or small twig in my alcohol , then lighting it, and using it to light the stove.
Works much better. Also lets me put the windscreen in place, then light the stove too if its breezy.


Good to know, since the bic is my alternate fire source.

[rusty bumper]

I carry a mini Bic lighter and 6 waterproof matches as backup. The matches are in a tiny zip-lock in my ditty bag and I've never had to use them.

[moytoy]

What happened to Dave?
A press release from Cody stated the following about the show Dual Survival...

"The goal of the survival instructor is to keep people alive. To accomplish this goal, honesty, integrity, trust and competence must come first. These core values cannot be compromised or people’s lives are needlessly put at risk. In a profession where human lives are at stake, dishonesty about one's background and experience is an inexcusable breach of trust."[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Survival#cite_note-8)

[vamelungeon]

magnesium sticks are a great way to dull your knife edge.
Mine has a striker attached to it.

[leaftye]

I can't aim the bic down at the alcohol stove without burning my finger. I find the fire steel a lot easier. Just me - no fine motor strength in my first finger, which is how I'd have to hold it to light a stove. Besides, the fire steel is cool.

I rarely carry an alcohol stove, or any stove at all, but I've been able to light it with the sparks from a lighter. I think I had removed the guard.

[atmilkman]

I rarely carry an alcohol stove, or any stove at all, but I've been able to light it with the sparks from a lighter. I think I had removed the guard.
The first thing to go on a bic is the guard. Perfect job for the needle nose pliers on the Leatherman.

[Pathfinder1]

Tipi Walter;
You remind me to say I always pry off the child proof thingie put on Bic lighters as it seriously interferes with my thumb flicking a flame. Can't stand that little piece of useless metal. I haven't used matches since 1978 as they tend to get wet, even the protected ones, they often won't light and they throw nice little sparks out onto firm Thermarests.


Hi...


Excellent tip regarding the Bics.

Also, the stormproof REI matches are the best ones to carry...info I got from people who know a lot more about them than I do.

[Pathfinder1]

daddytwosticks;
I don't use a "Bic" lighter, standard or mini. I use the cheap generic ones in the multi-pack found at the check-out at Wal-Mart. Am I still cool? :)




Hi...


Are you talking about the ones that have a see-through reservoir? Those kinds I've had fail after as little as six turns of the spark wheel.

[bubonicplay]

Mini bic's fuel doesn't last long, it's better to get a regular size.

[MuddyWaters]

Mini bic's fuel doesn't last long, it's better to get a regular size.

I think you can get hundreds of lights from a mini bic. A full size is 1500-3000, or 1 hr burn time. If you cook twice a day, and arent trying to light esbit or something that takes long, a minibic should last a long long time.

[handlebar]

To light alcohol stove with mini-Bic lighter: 1. Pour alcohol into stove, 2. Find small stick about 6 inches long, 3. Dip stick into alcohol in stove, 4. Use Bic to light alcohol-coated end of stick, 5. Insert stick into stove. Voila!

[Marta]

To light alcohol stove with mini-Bic lighter: 1. Pour alcohol into stove, 2. Find small stick about 6 inches long, 3. Dip stick into alcohol in stove, 4. Use Bic to light alcohol-coated end of stick, 5. Insert stick into stove. Voila!

Or, like me, you can use a stick with a fire on one end--a match!

[Train Wreck]

Cause those survival shows want to "look cool" and a simple Bic lighter does not have the "Burly Mtn Man mystique"...

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6551577/man-vs-wild-rpg


For your viewing pleasure.. :)

...............

[Lyle]

Bic, I always carry two. One packed with the stove, one packed with repair supplies. I also stash simple, free book matches all over the place. With the stove, with my phone, with my camera, with the repair supplies, in the pack hip pockets. Well maybe not in ALL those places on every trip, but lots scattered around. I find the matches are much easier to light my stove with, easier to hold at the tip and light a fire with. The Bics are easier in windy or wet conditions though. Multiple options for this important safety ability.

[QiWiz]

Interesting on the cold weather gas. On my last hike I discovered (I'm sure daily lighter users know this already) that butane just doesn't want to make a big flame when it's cold. So I had to walk with the lighter in my pocket as we got into camp just to get the gas warm enough to make a decent flame.

In winter, I just put the lighter up my sleeve by the wrist to warm it up while I'm getting my stove set up and pour into my pot whatever water I'm starting with. Just takes a minute or two to get it to the point that it will light just fine.

[QiWiz]

To light alcohol stove with mini-Bic lighter: 1. Pour alcohol into stove, 2. Find small stick about 6 inches long, 3. Dip stick into alcohol in stove, 4. Use Bic to light alcohol-coated end of stick, 5. Insert stick into stove. Voila!

This is the best thing I've learned from another hiker in quite some time. And I learned it about three years ago from watching handlebar use this method to light his alcohol stove. Before that, I used to wrap my stoves with fiberglass wick or had priming pans under them, or other such unnecessarily complex lighting assist methods. Thanks!

[Wise Old Owl]

The story behind the story here is we were told matches were the way to go in Boy Scouts to keep us from playing with lighters.... And Magnesium blocks.... suck.

[TheYoungOne]

whats with the childproof thing anyway. why not just keep lighters away from children in the first place? i really cant remember a kid picking up a bic and tryiing to light it.i say we petition the good people at bic to remove the protective pita and market it as "adults only"

It funny becuase when I was a kid in the 70's and 80's little kids had easy access to matches and lighters and almost any kid knew how to use them. Today not a lot of people smoke and if they do it not around the kids. I had to teach my youngest, who is 10 and in 4th grade how to use matches, and a regular lighter, because the only one she ever used was those long safety lighters for lighting grills and the fireplace. I felt the need to teach it to her as a "life skill". Kid are too into video games to want to play with fire anymore.

Its funny because I was playing with matches probably when I was 5 or 6. By the time I was 11, I had a pack a week smoking habit and my own lighter. Times do change.

[Mags]

By the time I was 11, I had a pack a week smoking habit and my own lighter. Times do change.


I didn't smoke, but I do remember being 11 or 12 and my uncles having me or my cousins going to the corner store to pick up cigarettes for them.

The cashiers would always sell me smokes easily (once i said I am buying them for my uncles).

Yep..times have changed.

[HooKooDooKu]

I've never used anything but regular matches stored in 35mm film canister. Simply cut the strikers of the sides of the box and toss them in the film canister as well. For a backup, I store a 2nd canister of matches in my toiletry bag.

[MDSection12]

I've never used anything but regular matches stored in 35mm film canister. Simply cut the strikers of the sides of the box and toss them in the film canister as well. For a backup, I store a 2nd canister of matches in my toiletry bag.

What is a 'film canister?' You mean a SD card case? Those are too small for matches. :confused:

[atmilkman]

I didn't smoke, but I do remember being 11 or 12 and my uncles having me or my cousins going to the corner store to pick up cigarettes for them.

The cashiers would always sell me smokes easily (once i said I am buying them for my uncles).

Yep..times have changed.
When we were 12 my friend was able to go into the bar where his mother worked and buy cigarettes and say they were for her and then we would go to my grandma's house, row the boat across the Huron River, climb up a tree and smoke 5 in a row (there were 4 of us) and get buzzed as hell and act all goofy and stuff, then when the effect wore off we'd row back across the river and walk home, happy as hell. Times were different.

[MDSection12]

When we were 12 my friend was able to go into the bar where his mother worked and buy cigarettes and say they were for her and then we would go to my grandma's house, row the boat across the Huron River, climb up a tree and smoke 5 in a row (there were 4 of us) and get buzzed as hell and act all goofy and stuff, then when the effect wore off we'd row back across the river and walk home, happy as hell. Times were different.

Ah yes, the good old days. :rolleyes:

[staehpj1]

I use a mini bic to start fires on the relatively rare occasion I want to do that, but find a "light my fire" steel works better for lighting my alcohol stove.

[R1ma]

While the fire steel is more macho than the Bic, both pale in comparison to lighting strike anywhere matches against your crotch or teeth. That's what real men do.

Pah. The most macho is chin stubble. And if you don't have chin stubble, you're not macho enough to matter anyway. Go back to your Hello Kitty zippo.


OK, I carry a Bic with some matches as a backup. And my wife actually owns a few Hello Kitty Zippos.

[atmilkman]

Pah. The most macho is chin stubble. And if you don't have chin stubble, you're not macho enough to matter anyway. Go back to your Hello Kitty zippo.


OK, I carry a Bic with some matches as a backup. And my wife actually owns a few Hello Kitty Zippos.
Don't forget the teeth method.

[daddytwosticks]

Chuck Norris just looks at a match and poof, ignition...:)

[Drybones]

It funny becuase when I was a kid in the 70's and 80's little kids had easy access to matches and lighters and almost any kid knew how to use them. Today not a lot of people smoke and if they do it not around the kids. I had to teach my youngest, who is 10 and in 4th grade how to use matches, and a regular lighter, because the only one she ever used was those long safety lighters for lighting grills and the fireplace. I felt the need to teach it to her as a "life skill". Kid are too into video games to want to play with fire anymore.

Its funny because I was playing with matches probably when I was 5 or 6. By the time I was 11, I had a pack a week smoking habit and my own lighter. Times do change.

Those of You Born
1930 - 1979

At the end of this Email is a quote of the month by Jay Leno.. If you don't read anything else, Please Read what he Said.
Very well stated, Mr. Leno.
TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED THE
1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's!

First, we survived being born to mothers
Who smoked and/or drank while they were
Pregnant.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing,
Tuna from a can and didn't get tested for diabetes.

Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles,
Locks on doors or cabinets and when we rode
Our bikes, we had baseball caps not helmets on our heads.

As infants & children,
We would ride in cars with no car seats,
No booster seats, no seat belts, no air bags, bald tires and sometimes no brakes.

Riding in the back of a pick-up truck on a warm day
Was always a special treat.

We drank water
>From the garden hose and not from a bottle.

We shared one soft drink with four friends,
>From one bottle and no one actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, white bread, real butter and bacon..
We drank Kool-Aid made with real white sugar.
And, we weren't overweight.
WHY?

Because we were
Always outside playing...that's why!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day,
As long as we were back when the
Streetlights came on.

No one was able
To reach us all day. And, we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps
And then ride them down the hill, only to find out
We forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes
a few times, we learned to solve the problem.

We did not have PlayStations, Nintendo's and X-boxes.
There were no video games, no 150 channels on cable,
No video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's,
No cell phones, No personal computers, no Internet and no chat rooms.
WE HAD FRIENDS
And we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth
And there were no lawsuits from these accidents.

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt,
And the worms did not live in us
Forever.

We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays,
Made up games with sticks and tennis balls and,
Although we were told it would happen,
We did not put out very many eyes.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and
Knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just
Walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team.
Those who didn't had to learn to deal
With disappointment.
Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law
Was unheard of.
They actually sided with the law!

These generations have produced some of the best
Risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever.

The past 50 years
Have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.
We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility,
and we learned how to deal with it all.

If YOU are one of them?
CONGRATULATIONS!
You might want to share this with others
who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the
lawyers and the government regulated so much of our lives
for our own good .

While you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know
how brave and lucky their parents were.

Kind of makes you want to run through the house
with scissors, doesn't it ?

The quote of the
month is by Jay Leno:
"With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control,
mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms
tearing up the country from one end to another,
and with the threat of swine flu
and terrorist attacks.
Are we sure this is a good time
to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance?'

For those that prefer to think that God is not watching over us.. ..go ahead and delete this.

For the rest of
us...pass this on.
A Small Prayer!

God determines who walks into your life....it's up to you to decide who you let walk away, who you let stay, and who you refuse to let go.

When there is nothing left but God, that is when you find out that God is all you need.

[Drybones]

Pah. The most macho is chin stubble. And if you don't have chin stubble, you're not macho enough to matter anyway. Go back to your Hello Kitty zippo.


OK, I carry a Bic with some matches as a backup. And my wife actually owns a few Hello Kitty Zippos.

All a real man needs is two sticks to rub together....uhhh...that wouldn't be me.

[Drybones]

When we were 12 my friend was able to go into the bar where his mother worked and buy cigarettes and say they were for her and then we would go to my grandma's house, row the boat across the Huron River, climb up a tree and smoke 5 in a row (there were 4 of us) and get buzzed as hell and act all goofy and stuff, then when the effect wore off we'd row back across the river and walk home, happy as hell. Times were different.

I was too poor to afford real cigarettes, we'd take a piece of paper bag and roll foot long cigars using "rabbit tobacco", don't know the scientific name of the plant, silver leaves, smoked better than those grape vines, those burned the tongue pretty bad.

[atmilkman]

Drybones, sometimes some of the things you say impresses me. This was one of them. Post #77

[Drybones]

I can't aim the bic down at the alcohol stove without burning my finger. I find the fire steel a lot easier. Just me - no fine motor strength in my first finger, which is how I'd have to hold it to light a stove. Besides, the fire steel is cool.

I had the same problem burning the fingers. At the risk of becoming a WB outcast I'll fess up and say I do carry a Bic backup but broke down and spent a couple of bucks on a much wider lighter, with a much wider thumb bar to eliminate that burning sensation, it's still a plastic lighter and doesn't weigh much more than the Bic....DJEEP brand.

[Rasty]

Makes me glade I was born in 1973.

[theinfamousj]

magnesium sticks are a great way to dull your knife edge.

Unless you use the back side of your knife.

Sent from my YP-GS1 using Tapatalk 2

[hikerboy57]

Unless you use the back side of your knife.

Sent from my YP-GS1 using Tapatalk 2
actually i use the stupid awl on my swiss army knife

[HooKooDooKu]

What is a 'film canister?' You mean a SD card case? Those are too small for matches. :confused:

I don't know if an SD card case whould be water-proof enough.

"Back in the day", 35mm film canisters were easy to come by. The were small and water proof. To implement anything similar today, I guess you would have to get something like one of the small nalgene bottles, like one of the smaller ones that come in this kit: http://www.rei.com/product/402139/nalgene-travel-bottle-kit-medium

[magic_game03]

A. 50% of people on the trail carry a lighter so they can spark a joint.
B. 25% of people on the trail carry a lighter because they hope they will run into a stoner who will have lost their lighter, whereupon they will have the magical tool to help with that dilemma.
C. 24% of people will have never tried dope thereby will have the logical brain capacity to realize that a lighter is the easiest, cheapest, functional tool to start a fire (or light a stove).
D. 1% are outliers and carry magnesium strikers.

[MDSection12]

I don't know if an SD card case whould be water-proof enough.

"Back in the day", 35mm film canisters were easy to come by. The were small and water proof. To implement anything similar today, I guess you would have to get something like one of the small nalgene bottles, like one of the smaller ones that come in this kit: http://www.rei.com/product/402139/nalgene-travel-bottle-kit-medium
I apologize, that was a bad joke. I grew up with tons of them laying around (father is a photographer) but aside from the stockpile he keeps at his house I haven't seen a film can in probably ten years.

[msupple]

I don't use a "Bic" lighter, standard or mini. I use the cheap generic ones in the multi-pack found at the check-out at Wal-Mart. Am I still cool? :)

No...but if you used them with this....http://www.sotooutdoors.com/products/item/PT-14SB.html ...then yes! :) They are made by Scripto...Bics don't work with it.

Cat in the Hat

[Hill Ape]

50% you say? glad to hear i'm in the majority, for once in my life

[vamelungeon]

I still like my ferro stick. I hate those little bics.

[Drybones]

To light alcohol stove with mini-Bic lighter: 1. Pour alcohol into stove, 2. Find small stick about 6 inches long, 3. Dip stick into alcohol in stove, 4. Use Bic to light alcohol-coated end of stick, 5. Insert stick into stove. Voila!

Handlebar...you're a brilliant man (woman ?), it's interesting how we most always look for a complicated answer to a problem and look right over a simple answer, spent 5 days on the FHT and used your method, outstanding, when raining and trapped in the tent just reached under the fly, grabbed a twig to use and as you say....voila! Thanks.

[mtnkngxt]

I use a mini bic and carry a micro fire steel and striker.

[Capt Nat]

I want to see a requirement that all fires on the Appalachian trail must be started with the bow and drill method. Come on, this is hiking folks, not back yard grilling!

[Drybones]

I want to see a requirement that all fires on the Appalachian trail must be started with the bow and drill method. Come on, this is hiking folks, not back yard grilling!

I'm gonna try that in the back yard one day to see if I can do what a Neanderthal did, doubt that I'm smart enough but I'll try.

[Tahava]

Sorry for a bump...
I went with a Fenix PD35, it's on the floody side, if you want to stick with CR123A primaries, though I tend to use rechargable 18650s. My beam doesn't have any artifacts, and the tint is on the cooler side. The run time with 18650s is great, and will reach up to 850 lumens. UI wise, it's a tail clicky with a side button to adjust intensity. Goes for about $75

I've been pretty tough on it, dropped it many times and its been submerged more than once, but it keeps on going. No fogging, but I did manage to break the optional diffuser cap when I dropped it.

Go with a PD32UE if you want a warmer tint, in practice the two are just as bright.

If you're going for a AA light, I like the Olight S15, it can go sub lumen to 280 lumens on a single AA. If you want longer run times, it comes with an extender to use 2 AAs. Comes with a magnetic tail cap which I've found very useful. Its another light that I've abused quite a bit and it keeps on ticking. Side clicky though which you mentioned you didn't like. $40

[cmoulder]

Ahh, the rare and exotic off-topic necro bump! :)

[T.S.Kobzol]

Nothing wrong with it except it's not really needed. Good ole fashioned wooden matches do the trick just fine for me.


In wilderness survival shows they always use those magnesium sticks to start fires. On my hike I found a Bic lighter in the first shelter that lasted all the way to Maine and beyond. Why not just use a regular cigarette lighter for fires, instead of magnesium sticks, waterproof matches, steel wool & battery, etc.

[CalebJ]

Ahh, the rare and exotic off-topic necro bump! :)

No kidding - necromancing a post is one thing, but on a completely different topic is pure gold.

[Heliotrope]

i think we should remove the tines from forks so kids cant poke their eyes out accidentally.
as i get older i seem to be having more trouble with the childproof stuff.
and heinz ketchup in a squeeze bottle? kids will never understand the whole anticipation thing.
the times they are a changin

Check out the Carol Burnett skit where she tries to open a child proof bottle of pills [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kaptainkriz]

I carry a small bic lighter - it works just fine. If I'm using it to light my butane stove, it does not even need to have gas in it.

[Riocielo]

I have trouble with a Bic lighter even in warm temps, much less when my hands are cold or wet. I found a tiny lighter marketed for cigars on an end cap at Walmart. It looks like a candle lighter but is only about two inches long. I only need to pull the trigger and fortunately I can still do that. I carry waterproof matches as a backup.

[Venchka]

The problem I have with the BIC Minis is that they really aren’t that cheap.
Wayne

[MtDoraDave]

The problem I have with the BIC Minis is that they really aren’t that cheap.
Wayne

Heh. I paid $50 for a stove with an igniter, which I believe is $10 more than the non igniter model (giga-power), and I still carry a mini Bic for back up, and a spare mini Bic to back up the first one. And a third one, just in case.

Now that I don't smoke anymore, I'll probably cut back to just one or two mini bics.

[Venchka]

Heh. I paid $50 for a stove with an igniter, which I believe is $10 more than the non igniter model (giga-power), and I still carry a mini Bic for back up, and a spare mini Bic to back up the first one. And a third one, just in case.

Now that I don't smoke anymore, I'll probably cut back to just one or two mini bics.
Apparently triple redundancy is common on the trail.
In my case: Built in igniter. Full size lighter. Waterproof match safe and strike anywhere matches.
“Come on Baby light my fire!”
Wayne

[Emerson Bigills]

I have a 12 year old pocket rocket and bought two Bic mini's at the same time. All three are still working and I have never been unable to get my stove lit. That covers over 3000 miles of trail backpacking. I carry both of the Bics because I just know one is about to run out. Sometimes simple is just fine.

[Starchild]

Stove with ignitor, mini bic #1 and mini bic #2 is my go to since my 2013 AT thru. Still have and use those 2 mini bics from that thru. I normally keep one boc handy and the other stored in a dry spot.

[gpburdelljr]

Anyone that needs advice on how to light a stove probably shouldn’t go hiking. :)

[Venchka]

Anyone that needs advice on how to light a stove probably shouldn’t go hiking. :)
Does this mean that there will be a test?
Wayne

[George]

Does this mean that there will be a test?
Wayne

yes, at the trailhead - failures will be sent home with the tail between the legs

[Venchka]

I’ll bring my SVEA 123 and 1 match for the test.
The sound will run the competition away.
Wayne

[nsherry61]

I’ll bring my SVEA 123 and 1 match for the test.
The sound will run the competition away.

My late 70's MSR XGK will blow your Svea away with loud. . . but, it aint anywhere near as pretty.

I remember being so excited when the MSR GK stoves came out because they had a pump and an awesomely effective windscreen system. I never looked back. And, I have no recollection of what I ever did with my Svea. It would be fun to have as an addition to my pointless stove collection. Actually, I think I may recall giving my Svea away to some poor sot that just wasn't cool enough or rich enough to own an XGK. . . oh, the ego of teenage mountaineers. . .

[HooKooDooKu]

Wow... It's been six years since I've chimed in on this thread...

Back then, I said I only use matches.
Today, I still carry a small set of regular matches in an old 35mm film canister. But those are more of a "back" that I only use on the rare occasions I try to build a fire.

Today, I carry a Bic Mini, and so long as it sparks, I can still light my stove with it even if the fuel runs out.

[perdidochas]

In wilderness survival shows they always use those magnesium sticks to start fires. On my hike I found a Bic lighter in the first shelter that lasted all the way to Maine and beyond. Why not just use a regular cigarette lighter for fires, instead of magnesium sticks, waterproof matches, steel wool & battery, etc.

IMHO, reliability. A little ferro stick weighs very little. I use a little bic lighter, but also carry a little ferro stick. I use the ferro stick whenever lighting a fire--good practice. Steel wool and battery are impractical. Waterproof matches are a good idea, as are magnesium blocks (with a ferro stick glued on the side).

[LittleRock]

No kidding - necromancing a post is one thing, but on a completely different topic is pure gold.
AND it was his first post - bravo!

[Jayne]

I can't aim the bic down at the alcohol stove without burning my finger. I find the fire steel a lot easier. Just me - no fine motor strength in my first finger, which is how I'd have to hold it to light a stove. Besides, the fire steel is cool.
Yep; this! My solution is to carry kitchen matches. Work great, cheap, and I don't burn my knuckles when I light my stove :)

[Feral Bill]

I’ll bring my SVEA 123 and 1 match for the test.
The sound will run the competition away.
Wayne I often use a fire stick thing lighting my Svea. Have done so for decades. And I love the cheery roar. I also carry matches, for some reason.

[Venchka]

Matches are a difficult habit to break. Hey!
👍😄
Apparently the SVEA 123 isn’t loud enough. I guess I need to pair the 123 with the Primus Himalayan MFS stove burning white gas. That should get everyone’s attention!
Wayne

[Berserker]

So we're actually doing this huh? The thread was brought back from the dead (as noted by others) by someone making his first post on WB (as noted by one other).

Ok, well since I wasn't in on this thread the first time I'm lighter user, don't see any value to using anything else. I do carry some waterproof matches in case my lighter goes defunct though.

[Analog_Kidd]

Several years ago I put together a day pack of emergency items. Mostly extra camping gear i had... A knife, old stove, head lamp, etc. And I threw it in the backseat of my truck. This past weekend I decided to go thru it. When I got to the lighter, I discovered that the flint has turned to dust and no longer worked. It has been untouched for probably 5 years, and gone thru that many winter / summer cycles. Not sure if that can make a lighter flint decompose or not. Worth mentioning tho... Check yours before you head out.

[TexasBob]

I had the same problem burning the fingers. At the risk of becoming a WB outcast I'll fess up and say I do carry a Bic backup but broke down and spent a couple of bucks on a much wider lighter, with a much wider thumb bar to eliminate that burning sensation, it's still a plastic lighter and doesn't weigh much more than the Bic....DJEEP brand.


I can't aim the bic down at the alcohol stove without burning my finger. I find the fire steel a lot easier. Just me - no fine motor strength in my first finger, which is how I'd have to hold it to light a stove. Besides, the fire steel is cool.

Try a disposable pipe lighter, the flame comes out the side rather than the top - like these https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Linse-Dual-Cigar-Lighters/dp/B077SZ8NTM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_121_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8CAZW3HFJ9HS0VWATBV4

[RockDoc]

I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.

[HooKooDooKu]

I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.
If you have to have the Bic lighter on for a minute to light a fire... then you're doing it wrong.
After all, no match burns of 60 seconds (well maybe fire place matches if you try... but most hikers aren't taking those in the woods to start a fire either).

[nsherry61]

I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.
Your bic lighter doesn't burn hot enough or long enough (without getting hot, as you noted) to be an effective fire started. It is only ever an ignition source with which you then lighter your fire starter with. Fire starting needs to be long burning with as hot a flame is you can get. Good fire starters include everything from fat wood, to candles, to Esbit cubes, to valvoline saturated cotton balls to shredded birch bark.

[Fredt4]

Wow... It's been six years since I've chimed in on this thread...

Back then, I said I only use matches.
Today, I still carry a small set of regular matches in an old 35mm film canister. But those are more of a "back" that I only use on the rare occasions I try to build a fire.

Today, I carry a Bic Mini, and so long as it sparks, I can still light my stove with it even if the fuel runs out.

My mini bic is out of fuel, but I am still using it since 2010. My backup mini bic just sits and waited for its turn that doesn't seem like it's ever coming. I've done a thru on the AT in 2011 and have been a busy hiker since. So I'll second anyone that carries a bic.

[BuckeyeBill]

My mini bic is out of fuel, but I am still using it since 2010. My backup mini bic just sits and waited for its turn that doesn't seem like it's ever coming. I've done a thru on the AT in 2011 and have been a busy hiker since. So I'll second anyone that carries a bic.

Bic lighters big or small have a very long flint for people who can't grasp the concept of how to light it. I had one that still sparked for about 12 years after the fluid ran out. I am sold on mini Bic lighters as far as weight is concerned.

[gpburdelljr]

Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it. :)

[Just Bill]

I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.
It needs to be lit long enough to light my vaseline soaked cotton ball. As others mentioned it may not even need to light.
I don't disagree with you, but that's not really a situation that most would use the lighter for. In the rare case I did not have a vaseline cotton ball or some kind of cheater... I build a birds nest and turn it upside down while holding the lighter right side up. If building a fire in the rain that allows me to shield the bird's nest with my hand as well as avoid letting rain fall on my lighter. Trying to reach into a fire lay with a bic held sideways or upside down is awkward at best, dangerous at worst.

Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it. :)

Bushcrafters. One of the few gripes I have with the philosophy really. Primitive fire building is a nice skill to have, and a great way to practice fire building and respect for a properly built fire. Sweat your arse off and blister up your hands a few times generating a coal only to have it fail because your fire lay sucks and you'll learn to build a fire pretty quick.

But after that... I'll take my 11g mini-bic. My spare 11g bic in 1g water proof pill bag, and my 11g back up mini-bic burried in my pack in a waterproof bag in a 1g pill bag with a pair of 1g tinderquick.
To that I will add an ounce of vaseline dipped cotton ball cheaters (in a 1g pill bag).

All of that is still lighter than a ferro rod. Most importantly it's much easier to light a cigar while I sip bourbon.

[HooKooDooKu]

Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it. :)
Building fire isn't a genetically inherited skill. It must be taught.
Like most animals, we are lazy creatures, and we naturally tend to complete a task the easiest way we know how. So as we learn easier ways to build fire, we share that knowledge.

[gpburdelljr]

Building fire isn't a genetically inherited skill. It must be taught.
Like most animals, we are lazy creatures, and we naturally tend to complete a task the easiest way we know how. So as we learn easier ways to build fire, we share that knowledge.
It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.

[Just Bill]

Yar, but follow that logic and that's what stoves are for. :D For 99% of backpackers fire is an unneeded skill saved for entertainment at best.
Hippie TV is what my buddy calls it.

It's part of camping for me... but I live in the relatively safe and stable midwest where woods are abundant and fire danger is typically zero.
I build a small enough fire to sit right next to, and a big fire for me is what most consider too small to bother. So an armfull of wood is usually all I need.
On the AT or crowded places I just gather some up about a 1/4 away from the shelter and bring it in to the shelter.

Really- if I fell into the proverbial frozen stream (again)... I'd reach for my stove and set up a my shelter long before I bothered to start a fire. A hot drink, hot meal, and bundled in insulation is much safer and faster. Once the immediate danger has passed then you can get a fire going if you need to dry things out or for moral support.

Part of that philosophical disagreement I have with them bush burning crafters, lol.

[Just Bill]

It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.
Lotta folks didn't. I'm a chicago burbs kid who was blessed with being in a good boy scout troop and at least having some open land and forest preserves to go screw off in a bit.

So yar... it's like riding a bike.

Plenty of folks like Skurka, Jennifer Pharr Davis, and thousands of folks every year who's first real camping trip may be setting foot on the AT.
Long distance hiking in general has a pretty large skills gap/blind spot that other outdoors users find confussing.

For even some very successful and prominent hikers... they just are not skills that you need. What's nice about getting over the Xtreme UL craze and the Prepper craze is that both extremes of outdoor use are returning to a more general skillset and broader knowledge base.

Nothing to do with this zombie thread really, but seems we're both bored at work today, lol.

[HooKooDooKu]

It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.
But you're ignoring the other half of my argument... the lazy factor.

It's "rocket science" that has allowed us to invent bic lighters and perhaps scientifically study better ways to building a fire.

If there was no "better" way to build a fire than what you learned at age six, then we would have all learned that way of building a fire and we would all be doing that.


Use the canister stove as an example. Unless there is some over riding factor (such as needing to go ultra light weight, or operating in extreme conditions) just about every back packer cooking in the back country is doing so with a canister stove. Of all the options available (fire, gas, canister, alcohol, alternative fuels), nothing can match the canister stove in availability, ease of use, and control. It's the "easiest" solution (for MOST conditions) and therefore it's almost universally used.

[gpburdelljr]

But you're ignoring the other half of my argument... the lazy factor.

It's "rocket science" that has allowed us to invent bic lighters and perhaps scientifically study better ways to building a fire.

If there was no "better" way to build a fire than what you learned at age six, then we would have all learned that way of building a fire and we would all be doing that.


Use the canister stove as an example. Unless there is some over riding factor (such as needing to go ultra light weight, or operating in extreme conditions) just about every back packer cooking in the back country is doing so with a canister stove. Of all the options available (fire, gas, canister, alcohol, alternative fuels), nothing can match the canister stove in availability, ease of use, and control. It's the "easiest" solution (for MOST conditions) and therefore it's almost universally used.
After learning to build a fire at six, or under, learning how to use a bic, or any other new method, takes a few seconds. Endless discussion of it is unnecessary.

[nsherry61]

Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it. :)

It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.

Then gpburdelljr, you haven't played around much with building fires in difficult situations. Like you, I was taught at a young age, having grown up in a house that was heated by wood. From my earliest memories, my primary family chore was managing the wood and fire (my sisters cooked and cleaned, I had the better deal). Further, starting with the first backpacking trip I remember (when I was about 5 years old) cooking with fire was a central part of the experience. Until I was almost graduated from high school and started mountaineering and thus camping in places where there wasn't wood to burn, I always backpacked and cooked with wood fires and though people that used stoves just didn't fully appreciate what backpacking was all about.
AND, given that background, every year I still learn more about how to make better fires faster in less cooperative environments. And, there are still situations where I am not certain I would be able to succeed in building and maintaining a fire. To suggest that backcountry fire building is easy and doesn't benefit from discussion is a resounding claim of either naivety or a drastic lack of breadth in the backcountry one has ever built fires in (i.e. naivety).

As for rocket science . . . your darn right fire building isn't rocket science! It's an art that doesn't always work in the consistent manner a rocket scientist might expect it to. It's a art that requires practice and experimentation to expand one skills to be able to succeed in a wide array of inclement environments where frankly it might also be the most import.

Yeah, I think you hit a nerve with me on this one because thinking fire building is easy is just plain stupid and irresponsible. If you think it's easy and are struggling with it, you feel dumb and frustrated with yourself when, in reality what you are doing is hard and takes time and practice. Or, if you think it's easy and therefore already know how to do it, you better darn well never get yourself into a situation where you are in trouble, need fire, likely due to foul weather where everything is wet and it's pouring rain.

[gpburdelljr]

Then gpburdelljr, you haven't played around much with building fires in difficult situations. Like you, I was taught at a young age, having grown up in a house that was heated by wood. From my earliest memories, my primary family chore was managing the wood and fire (my sisters cooked and cleaned, I had the better deal). Further, starting with the first backpacking trip I remember (when I was about 5 years old) cooking with fire was a central part of the experience. Until I was almost graduated from high school and started mountaineering and thus camping in places where there wasn't wood to burn, I always backpacked and cooked with wood fires and though people that used stoves just didn't fully appreciate what backpacking was all about.
AND, given that background, every year I still learn more about how to make better fires faster in less cooperative environments. And, there are still situations where I am not certain I would be able to succeed in building and maintaining a fire. To suggest that backcountry fire building is easy and doesn't benefit from discussion is a resounding claim of either naivety or a drastic lack of breadth in the backcountry one has ever built fires in (i.e. naivety).

As for rocket science . . . your darn right fire building isn't rocket science! It's an art that doesn't always work in the consistent manner a rocket scientist might expect it to. It's a art that requires practice and experimentation to expand one skills to be able to succeed in a wide array of inclement environments where frankly it might also be the most import.

Yeah, I think you hit a nerve with me on this one because thinking fire building is easy is just plain stupid and irresponsible. If you think it's easy and are struggling with it, you feel dumb and frustrated with yourself when, in reality what you are doing is hard and takes time and practice. Or, if you think it's easy and therefore already know how to do it, you better darn well never get yourself into a situation where you are in trouble, need fire, likely due to foul weather where everything is wet and it's pouring rain.

This thread isn’t about lighting fires in difficult wet conditions, it’s about whether to use a fire stick, matches, a bic, etc., and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what works.

[Traillium]

(TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT!): … you think it's easy …

At the risk of pouring oil on the discussion fire, how many of us can reliably make fire ‘from scratch’? I’ll stipulate that you have lost everything and are starting with having to find everything from your surroundings.

Next week, I’m out hiking the La Cloche Silhouette Trail around Killarney Provincial Park in Ontario. I’ll see what I can accomplish …

I’ll sort of ‘cheat’ and gather materials as I hike, rather than the more extreme position of randomly stopping and having to work with what’s immediately around me. I do know that I’m spending several days hiking through one of the oldest quartzite stone tool quarries dating to the earliest days of post-glacial occupation.

I’ll need sharp stone edge tools, dry basswood or brash old white cedar (arbor vitae) for hearth and spindle, milkweed or basswood or wood nettle for fibre, and birchbark and puffballs for tinder.

[nsherry61]

This thread isn’t about lighting fires in difficult wet conditions, it’s about whether to use a fire stick, matches, a bic, etc.,

AND, what works is very dependent on the conditions in which you are trying to light a fire.


and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what works.
Again, what works kinda depends on the conditions. Pretty much anything can light a vaseline soaked cotton ball. In sub-freezing, high wind a bic can be pretty useless in the hands of many people. In wind-blown wet conditions where your tinder is damp, some of those magnesium shavings might be a life saver. For most people, most of the time, anything more complicated than a mini-bic is silly and unnecessary overkill as long as you also have some decent fire starter to go with it.

And, I'm still trying to figure out how rocket science does or doesn't pertain to starting fires while backpacking since we are not talking about, or even trying to talk about controlled repeatable, mathematical engineering. But, we are talking about something that many people consider very important to be able to do and succeed in doing in a variety of difficult situations. And, success tends to stem from repeated experimentation and often discussion with others that have found some techniques that work better than others.

As to Trailium's comment about sorta cheating, suggesting that collecting fire making resources as you hike is cheating is kinda like trying to feed off the land and suggesting that collecting food while you're hiking is cheating. The only way I've every been able to reliably make fire "from scratch" is to collect the best materials I can find over a significant distance. I've had to cover quite significant distances to find dry enough and/or flammable enough tinder to start a fire (even with a bic) when it's raining and everything has been for days.

[Traillium]

As to Trailium's comment about sorta cheating, suggesting that collecting fire making resources as you hike is cheating is kinda like trying to feed off the land and suggesting that collecting food while you're hiking is cheating. The only way I've every been able to reliably make fire "from scratch" is to collect the best materials I can find over a significant distance. I've had to cover quite significant distances to find dry enough and/or flammable enough tinder to start a fire (even with a bic) when it's raining and everything has been for days.

Yep. My point is that firestarting can be a real challenge in difficult circumstances — and that the “tools carried between the ears” are remarkably sophisticated and non-trivial.

[Traveler]

It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.
Yet here you are discussing it.

The larger point here is working with fire in various conditions, which some people may not be that skilled with given the low demand for fire building and stove lighting in daily life. As HooKoo points out, working with fire in uncontrolled environments is a learned skill. Through these discussions and reading how others manage this process, the tools they use to ignite materials, and materials one can prepare like Vaseline coated cotton balls (which work surprisingly well) or fashioning inverted birds nests of tinder in wet weather, those without a lot of experience can have a better idea of what can work for them.

No, its not rocket science. But like most things it has to be learned unless one opts for osmosis, which has a colorful history of not working well.

[BuckeyeBill]

You can find out if a person knows any thing about fire building by watching them light a charcoal grill. Too much fluid and then the big whoosh of flame tells me they wouldn't know the first thing about starting a small fire made of wood while out in the woods.

[Five Tango]

Anthony Hopkins can make fire from ice,just sayin'.

[George]

Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it. :)

back in the days of cave men, they spent a lot of time on internet forums discussing fire building

[Five Tango]

Above freezing,I find nothing beats a bic and a birthday candle.My favorite,though,is the little cigar type lighter you get at Wallyworld which weighs about an once vs .4 for a mini bic.In cold weather,keep bic in your pocket.I do carry a striker for backup along with some charcloth and tinder for those times when the wind favors it.

[Traillium]

Yep. My point is that firestarting can be a real challenge in difficult circumstances — and that the “tools carried between the ears” are remarkably sophisticated and non-trivial.

Well … I didn’t get anywhere on my quest to make a fire kit totally from found materials while hiking. On our second day, I had a bad pratfall, gashed my head rather well, and decided to bandage it and walk out. No concussion symptoms; mostly the fear of infection and poor healing …

For those so inclined, check out http://http.wightman.ca/~mark.whitcombe/fire_by_friction.html