View Full Version : Pack Volume
Pendragon
12-01-2012, 15:34
OK, so here I am thinking my old Camp Trails External frame backpack with it's five pockets, plenty of lash-on options, and fairly decent attached mesh bag for damp items is lacking in storage capacity so I catch a Jansport Carson 80 on sale, thinking from everything I've read about popular pack sizes that it would be WAY more capacity than I would need, only to discover to my dismay that all told, the new pack's capacity is the same, if not perhaps a little less, then my dear old companion. You can imagine my confusion, having watched Shug stuffing amazing amounts of gear into a ULA Ohm, a pack purported to have maybe half of the capacity of my pack. How in the HELL do people get everything they need for a thru hike into these packs?
My problem seems to be not so much weight (my pack weight, including the pack itself but no food is now at about 26 lbs but I am sure I can get that down, I hope) as it is VOLUME. I have my sleeping bag, sleeping pad, tarp, crocs, and rain jacket on the outside, not taking up space inside, and yet I still don't seem to have room for my food bag. I had the impression that 80 liters total capacity was HUGE. It ain't. Unless of course you want to freeze to death on the bare ground. Am I the only one having this problem?
I'm gearing up for a section hike from Springer Mt to Damascus starting April 1st 2013.......I'm open to suggestions (yes, I want to go light weight, as I myself am only 125 soaking wet, but I have no desire to hike half naked in the snow or freeze to death in camp. I'll be hammocking.)
Thanks!
Is your sleeping bag a synthetic bag? From the volume your describing I would guess it is. The best way to do this if you would like help is to post your entire gear list with brand names, weight, quatity, etc. I use a 50 liter pack for up to 8 days comfortably but that took work to get there.
I actually miss my old Camp Trails sometimes when its hot.
MuddyWaters
12-01-2012, 17:16
How in the HELL do people get everything they need for a thru hike into these packs?
80L IS huge.
They obviously take a lot less stuff, and gear that takes up less room.
bigcranky
12-01-2012, 17:37
I cannot imagine that the "80" in the Carson 80 refers to the capacity of the pack bag in liters. 80 liters really is huge. It would eat all your stated gear inside the pack bag, no problem.
If you have 26 pounds of gear, and add three days of food and two liters of water, you're over 35 pounds, possibly pushing 40. That's not impossible, but for a 125 pound person, it's quite a bit of weight to start with at Springer.
MuddyWaters
12-01-2012, 17:50
I looked at a review on youtube. Its gi-normous.
Pendragon
12-01-2012, 18:09
OK, I'll break it all down next week on my next day off......might even include pictures if I can figure out how to upload them.
Altarboy
12-01-2012, 19:31
It's a nice pack, but it's not 80 liters. No way. A buddy has one and it's no where near the mass of my Kelty Tioga 5500 (90 liter). Nice pack though. Strap your tent and/or pad to the frame under the big compartment. Your sub-30 lb weight is fine. I talked to many hikers whose weight was 50 or more pounds-many of them were experienced hikers.
It's a nice pack, but it's not 80 liters. No way. A buddy has one and it's no where near the mass of my Kelty Tioga 5500 (90 liter). Nice pack though. Strap your tent and/or pad to the frame under the big compartment. Your sub-30 lb weight is fine. I talked to many hikers whose weight was 50 or more pounds-many of them were experienced hikers.
4900 cu in
http://www.backcountry.com/jansport-carson-backpack-4900-5500-cu-in
If I had to guess, one of three things are happening (or maybe a little bit of all of them):
1) The OP has too much gear or gear which is too large. The most likely culprits being the sleeping bag, tent/shelter, and sleeping pad
2) The OP has the "right" gear, but doesn't know how to pack the gear in an efficient and compact way.
3) The OP has the "wrong" gear (i.e. gear that isn't necessarily too heavy or too large--but gear which won't compress or pack well. I had an old tent and sleeping bag like that).
Feral Bill
12-02-2012, 01:27
4900 cu in
http://www.backcountry.com/jansport-carson-backpack-4900-5500-cu-in Fairly close to 80 liters.
garlic08
12-02-2012, 08:38
Besides a synthetic bag, another volume-eater is fleece. And how does your kitchen pack down? Does everything nest into one pot?
fredmugs
12-02-2012, 09:00
Did anybody even bother to read the OP and notice the part about hammocking? I only use a hammock in the summer when I don't need a quilt, etc.
Thunderbird
12-02-2012, 09:06
I have a old camp trails external frame pack, It is very large, The way I see it is even if im going for just a weekend I use this pack. If I dont need something I just dont pack it. I remember from my millitary training, water is your must important item then keep yourself warm.
I guess its a personal preferance thing.
Your carrying your sleeping bag and pad on the outside of the pack and you still don't have room? I would say you have too much gear. As already stated you need to post your gear list. There are people here that can help you trim that down.
I've got a Granite Gear Crown AC 60 which is a 60 liter pack. It has plenty of room for my gear. One of the things I've been able to do is reduce the volume of my gear by choosing compact gear.
Sleeping Bag, down bag stuffed in an 8 liter dry bag. As others have said if you're using synthetic that's probably what's taking up half the room in your pack.
Sleeping Pad, Neo Air inflatable pad. Rolls up to the size of a water bottle.
Tent, single wall, one person, packs in a 5 liter bag.
Clothes, all in an 8 liter bag which doubles as my pillow.
Food, repacked in ziplock bags. 4 days worth in a 13 liter bag.
It all fits with room to spare. Base weight about 12 - 13 pounds.
Only my Crocs hang outside of the pack.
Double Wide
12-02-2012, 11:36
I have a Carson 80 just like the original poster and when I started out, I had the exact same problem. Over the course of the past year I managed to reduce size and weight, mostly though trial-and-error, and a bit through research and asking questions of you fine folks.
First of all--make sure your clothes are all synthetic. I was amazed how small my clothes bag got for summer gear. Winter gear is a bit more volume, but still--make sure it's all synthetic. Also, get down sleeping bag instead of a synthetic one. It's amazing how small you can compress it. Also, what kind of sleeping pad are you using? I *used* to have a Thermarest Trail Lite pad, which although comfy, was HUGE when rolled up and heavier than shiat. Changed it out for NeoAir xlite and saved over a pound of weight and it's less than a third the size when packed.
How big is your tent? I carry a bigger tent than most folks here on WB, but I love the utility and space of having my REI Quarterdome T2--as the warden calls it, my one-bunk Hilton... Yet it still fits my pack just fine.
If you have a Carson 80, try this--sleeping bag in the lower compartment. Tent right in the middle, on one side of the tent, go with sleeping pad and kitchen gear. On the other side, go with you clothes bag and food bag. On the outside pockets I put my rope, rainhat, headlamp, first aid kit, toiletries, filter, etc. Up top I keep my snacks and anything else I want to get to in a hurry--gloves, pages of trail guide, map, etc. I also manage to squeeze some Crocs slides (not the ugly regular Crocs, but the flip-flops) into the main compartment, too.
Hope this helps.
Double Wide
12-02-2012, 11:40
Re-reading my post, one thing I should clarify. Winter clothing doesn't need to be all synthetic. Wool is great--just make sure you're not carrying cotton. While the old adage 'Cotton Kills' is true in wet weather, some folks carry a cotton shirt for a town shirt during the summer or cotton shorts to sleep in. Your choice, but it takes up space.
Also, the Carson 80 has clips on the bottom if you'd rather strap your tent on the outside. If that's the way you want to go, make sure you have a waterproof cover on it. But that'll give you lots more space inside the pack.
You can imagine my confusion, having watched Shug stuffing amazing amounts of gear into a ULA Ohm, a pack purported to have maybe half of the capacity of my pack. How in the HELL do people get everything they need for a thru hike into these packs?
You gotta reduce gear volume if you're thru-hiking. You need the space for more FOOD!
Pendragon
12-02-2012, 20:31
I'll get my gear list together in the middle of next week, but in the meantime, as I posted originally, my sleeping bag, which IS a Kelty DOWN Galactic 15 degree, I have strapped to the top in it's stuff sack, which is pretty small already, but I'm considering putting it in an air-purge dry sack instead to keep it dry, so THAT item is not affecting my pack volume. Neither is my pad, which is strapped to the very bottom, again, outside the pack. This leaves my hammock, which is a WB BB 1.1 db, which packs pretty small in the bottom compartment in it's own bishop sack, and my WB Superfly, which I took out and strapped to the outside, again, not sacrificing any internal space.
As for my clothing, there is no cotton, but the smart wool socks and fleece pants (for camp) do seem to not want to compress that much. My Frog Toggs Toads rain jacket weighs in at about 16 ounces but I am stuffing it also into the mesh bag I have hanging on the back for items that need to dry out. Yea, sure, I would love to have a high-tech rain jacket that weighs 4 ounces and breathes, but I also would love to have the money to pay for one to. I catch the best items I can on sale.
For the kitchen I have a 1.7 ltr Primus ETA pot, in which I have nested my Feather Fire alcohol stove and a coffee basket I'll use to filter the floaters out of my water. In addition to that I have one Fosters beer can pot into which is stuffed other things like salt and pepper, a quarter of a scrubby pad, etc....all of which weighs nothing but takes up a little bit of space.
Perhaps it's the several stuff and dry sacks I am using that's robbing me of some space, but it just seemed to me that a pack this purportedly large should have accommodated the stuff I have easily instead of coming up just short. I will post my entire gear list and include either a few pics or a video if I can. THEN maybe you guys can spot where I'm REALLY going wrong. Thanks for all the replies!
swjohnsey
12-02-2012, 21:32
My Ohm 2.0 was usually about half full.
MuddyWaters
12-02-2012, 23:53
How many pillows are you bringing???
I saw you are 125 lbs. Here are my Base, Cold Weather and UL Gear Lists. They include everything but food & water and range from 13.5-17 lbs. Hope this helps. Also, I have a GG VC Crown at 60 L. Everything fits inside. Good Luck..
Base Gear List-7
Big Three:
Base Kit
Cold Base Kit
UL Kit
Granite Gear Crown 60
35.50
35.50
35.50
o Cuben Pack Cover-
1.00
1.00
1.00
· TT Contrail (Wild Oasis Tarp)
32.00
32.00
15.50
o Ground Cloth-
1.70
1.70
2.40
o Stakes (10)-
4.00
4.00
4.00
o Stuff Sack-
0.70
0.70
0.70
Terra Rosa Bag Cover (Sack)
0.00
0.00
6.50
· WM Alpinlite 15D (Kodiak 0D Tamarak 35d)
34.30
57.00
19.00
o Stuff Sacks
2.00
2.00
2.00
· Thermarest Neo Air
14.00
14.00
14.00
Pad Stuff Sack
0.70
0.70
0.70
Total:
125.90
148.60
101.30
7.87
9.29
6.33
Clothing (Carried)
· MB Wind Pants-
3.10
3.10
3.10
· Marmot Mica Jacket-
7.00
7.00
7.00
· Marmot Dri-Climb Vest
0.00
6.20
0.00
· Mont Bell Down Camp Jacket-
6.60
6.60
6.60
· Silk Lite Weight Sleep Shirt-
2.80
2.80
2.80
· Silk LiteWeight Sleep Leggings-
0.00
0.00
3.20
· Sleep Socks (1)-Wool
2.60
2.60
2.60
· Hiking Socks (X-tra-1)-
2.60
2.60
2.60
· Sock Liners (X-tra-1)-
1.00
1.00
1.00
· Nike Hiking Leggings-
4.70
4.70
0.00
· Fleece Hat (1)-
0.00
2.00
0.00
· Running Gloves
1.00
1.00
0.00
Camp Gloves
1.00
1.00
0.00
· Garbage Bag Rain Shirt-
0.00
1.50
0.00
· Stuff Sack-
0.80
0.80
0.80
· Glasses
2.00
2.00
2.00
· Dirty Girl Gaiters
1.20
1.20
1.20
· Mesh Camp Shoes
0.00
0.00
4.00
· Pillow Cover
1.70
1.70
1.70
Balaclava
0.00
2.00
0.00
Bandana
1.00
1.00
1.00
Rubber Rain Gloves
0.00
1.00
0.00
Camp Shoes
9.00
9.00
0.00
Total:
48.10
60.80
39.60
3.01
3.80
2.48
Hygiene/Medical/Emergency/Stuff
· Tooth Brush-Toothpaste
2.00
2.00
2.00
· First Aid Kit-
1.20
1.20
1.20
o Medical Tape-
-
-
-
o Gauze-1 Roll-
-
-
-
o 3 Band Aids-
-
-
-
o 3 Alcohol Wipes-
-
-
-
o Tweezer-
· Toilet Paper-
1.00
1.00
1.00
· Hand Sanitizer-
1.00
1.00
1.00
· Vitamin I-
0.00
0.00
0.00
· Medications-
6.00
6.00
6.00
· Sun Screen-
0.00
0.00
0.00
· Lip Balm-
0.00
0.00
0.00
· Duct Tape-
1.00
1.00
1.00
· Emergency Kit-
2.00
2.00
2.00
o Needle-Thread-
-
-
-
o Safety Pins (4)-
-
-
-
o Tent-Pad Repair Kit-
-
-
-
Bladder Parts
· Bic Lighter (1)-
0.40
0.40
0.40
· Waterproof Matches (1 Box)-
0.30
0.30
0.30
· Spare Batteries-
0.00
0.00
0.00
· Pen-Paper-
0.50
0.50
0.50
· Head Lamp-
3.00
3.00
3.00
· Trail Maps-
0.00
0.00
0.00
· Deet-
1.00
1.00
1.00
· Extra Plastic Bags-
1.00
1.00
1.00
Food Bags
Garbage Bag-Grocery Bags
Stuff Sack
1.40
1.40
1.40
Total:
21.80
21.80
21.80
1.36
1.36
1.36
Cook System:
· Soto Stove + Windscreen
3.30
3.30
3.30
Windscreen-Alcohol
0.00
0.00
0.00
· Stuff Sack (Stove)-
0.80
0.80
0.80
· Fuel (4 oz)-
7.00
7.00
7.00
· Oil Camp XLS Cook Pot-
7.90
7.90
7.90
Pot Cozy
0.00
0.00
0.00
· Spoon- (2)
1.50
1.50
1.50
· Stuff Sack (Food)-
1.60
1.60
1.60
· Bear Rope-
2.50
2.50
2.50
· Towel-
0.50
0.50
0.50
· Pot Stabilizer
1.00
1.00
1.00
Bear Vault
Total:
26.10
26.10
26.10
1.63
1.63
1.63
Water Treatment:
· Steri Pen w/ Batteries-Case-
4.60
4.60
4.60
Spare Batteries
1.00
1.00
1.00
· Aqamira Tabs
0.50
0.50
0.50
· Nalgene UL Water Bottle (1)-
3.00
3.00
3.00
Nalgene Soft Bottle
2.00
2.00
2.00
· MSR Bladder (80 oz)-
6.20
6.20
6.20
Total:
17.30
17.30
17.30
1.08
1.08
1.08
Wearing:
· Ex Officio Long Sleeve Shirt-
7.10
7.10
7.10
· Running Shorts-
3.20
3.20
3.20
· Hiking Socks-
2.50
2.50
2.50
· Sock Liners-
0.90
0.90
0.90
· Hiking Poles-Leki-
19.40
19.40
19.40
· Montrail AT + Train Runners
26.60
26.60
26.60
Olympus Tough TG-320
5.50
5.50
5.50
· Knife/Whistle/Compass-
1.40
1.40
1.40
· Heart Rate Monitor-
3.20
3.20
3.20
· Knee Brace
6.00
6.00
6.00
Ankle Brace
8.00
8.00
8.00
· Running Hat-
2.00
2.00
2.00
Total:
85.80
85.80
85.80
5.36
5.36
5.36
Electronics:
· MP3/Headphones/Charger-
3.00
3.00
3.00
· Cell Phone/Charger
4.30
4.30
4.30
Camera Charger
2.30
2.30
2.30
Total:
9.60
9.60
9.60
0.60
0.60
0.60
Other:
· Ditty Bag-
1.20
1.20
1.20
o Credit Cards (2)-
1.00
1.00
1.00
o Cash-
-
-
-
o Drivers License-
-
-
-
o Insurance Card-
-
-
-
o Phone Card-
-
-
-
o Extra Reading Glasses (1)-
0.70
0.70
0.70
o Emergency Numbers-
0.00
0.00
0.00
Total:
2.90
2.90
2.90
0.18
0.18
0.18
Total Cost:
Food-Water
Water Carried-
33.00
33.00
33.00
Food-4 Days-2.0 Lbs/Day (32 OZ.)
128.00
128.00
128.00
Totals:
161.00
161.00
161.00
10.06
10.06
10.06
Grand Totals:
Base Weight In Pack:
251.70
287.10
218.60
15.73
17.94
13.66
Weight Worn:
85.80
85.80
85.80
5.36
5.36
5.36
Skin-Out Base Weight:
338.20
390.84
318.06
21.14
24.43
19.88
Weight Pack+Food+Water
412.70
448.10
379.60
25.79
28.01
23.73
Total Skin Out Weight:
498.50
533.90
465.40
31.16
33.37
29.09
bannerstone
12-03-2012, 17:49
To get you started on your pack comparisons here's a link that will help you sort out liter vs cubic inches in terms of pack volume http://www.whitemountain.com.au/backpack_construction/volume_conversions.html
Now consider that you watched Shug packing a ULA Ohm which is 3900cu in or 65 liters. Although generally not considered a thru-hike pack many do use the Ohm, even in cooler whether.
Getting your pack volume and weight down into this range is something done gradually, try to enjoy the process and make decisions that make sense for you and your hiking style. I see that you're a hammocker, I would encourage you to get out to a group hang in your area, it's a great place to see what gear others are using and learn. Check http://hammockforums.net for that.
It's amazing how quickly the weight comes off once you start working at it. The big low hanging fruit items to dropping weight in my kit were my pack, rain gear, cook kit, water filter, tarp, hammock. Then lots of small stuff, eliminating things I just didn't need, it all adds up and as I said earlier, quickly. :)
Have fun,
David
Pendragon
12-03-2012, 21:35
I decided to take some actual measurements of the central body of the pack and I get 1620 cubic inches for the main compartment, 1215 for the bottom (sleeping bag partition) for a grand total of 2835, no where near the 4900, so my exterior pockets, five in all, are taking up the difference. I am not counting the extension collar, which due to the age of this pack, is very difficult to cinch closed, but allows for a small amount of over-stuffing.
I decided to take some actual measurements of the central body of the pack and I get 1620 cubic inches for the main compartment, 1215 for the bottom (sleeping bag partition) for a grand total of 2835, no where near the 4900, so my exterior pockets, five in all, are taking up the difference. I am not counting the extension collar, which due to the age of this pack, is very difficult to cinch closed, but allows for a small amount of over-stuffing.
It has been my experience that pack makers and pack sellers count EVERY little space in that liter/cubic inch total--that includes the main compartment, bottom compartment, side pockets, mesh pockets, extension collar etc.
That being said your 1620 cubic inches (plus an extension collar) upper compartment isn't overly small. If my math is correct--my Hennessy Hammock packs down to about 220 cubic inches. My sleeping quilt packs to about 575 cubic inches. Sleeping pad: 115 cubic inches. That is a total of 910 cubic inches. IF my math is correct--that means I could (theoretically)--put all of that in in the 1215 cubic inch bottom compartment of your bag and still have room to spare. That seems about right--as those items would probably take up only the bottom 6-8 inches of my GoLite Pinnacle pack.
Even if your sleeping bag was 750 Cubic inches--you should still be able to get that an your in the bottom compartment at a minimum---plus your NeoAir pad--with room to spare for some other things. That would mean that you would have the entire upper compartment --extension collar and side pockets for everything else. Your tent packs down to a 4" X 15" inch cylinder. Still lots of room for other stuff if you put that in the top compartment.
To me, this seems like a matter of learning how to compress and pack your stuff properly.